Revisiting Subsoilers in Farming Simulator 22

[@Hedgehobbit]

It's frustrating that we have to resort to these sorts of test just to figure out how individual tools work. At lot of the guesswork could be removed if they just updated the field info popup test to include all the information needed to see what is going on. Instead of just a "Plowing Required", it should have a list of green text listing all of the relevant states: Plowed, Mulched, Cultivated, Fertilized, Bee Pollinated, etc.

[@Go4TheEyes]

After 120 hours of playing this game, thanks. It just basically breaks down to this -- Giants did not play test this game.

[@sasquatchhadarock968]

Desperately wish people could realize Giants is doing to farming what EA does with sports games/the Sims, and Bethesda does with the elderscrolls/fallout "series". Every 2-3 years Giants re-releases the same underlying engine with some texture improvements, a few new vehicle models (many with the same low-fidelity interiors as prior generations), and a couple "big" new features. Then they re-release all the prior game's DLC for the next generation.

[@sasquatchhadarock968]

I say this as someone who has dutifully bought each generation of the series from back in 2012 through to FS22.

[@zetdota3163]

@@sasquatchhadarock968 EA is at least couple steps further, to but I got your point.

[@travelinman70]

@@sasquatchhadarock968 stick with ETS2 and ATS.

[@ignasanchezl]

Reddit downvoted me to hell for saying FS17 felt like the last complete game in the series and that I prefer playing that with More Realistic mod and Gearbox and seasons than buying vanilla FS22.

[@RenniaTrayvold]

I don't know if it's been stated, but you need to leave the grass filter (Or any other crop filter for that matter) on to see what state it is in on the other menus.

[@FarmerKlein]

Ya we toggle it on during the video once the grass grows.

[@RenniaTrayvold]

I saw that, but then you switched it back off when you changed the tab, unless I missed something. You need to keep it on to show the growing/harvested/etc. state.

[@joshuadoll9000]

@@FarmerKlein at 16:32 you commented how you couldn’t see the field state. You switched to the crops menu, turned the grass on, then immediately turned it back off. You need to leave it on to be able to see the field state (planted, growing, harvested, fertilization stages, etc.) Since you left it off you couldn’t see the field state of that grass strip

[@FarmerKlein]

@@joshuadoll9000 Yes I know I turned it on saw the state and turned it off again. Probably a holdout of FS19 and 17 when leaving grss on showed the entire map as that color.

[@NoahWolfe]

If you listen closely, you can hear the screams of the GIANTS project manager who just told the boss the December patch was ready to ship.

[@thijslokhorst9178]

You need to select the seed type (grass) in order to see it as a growing state

[@elruchal]

so happy this video, finished 1st one for a second time right now, and my search found second one that is made 1 hour ago. YEAAAH!! GOOD WORK MATE!!

[@chrismiller3120]

I would say, while in the stubble tillage state, the stubble is acting like a mulch that us smothering the weeds out. Until you disturb the mulch with a power harrow or cultivator. A plain seeder "possibly the Lemkin" or a planter maybe able to plant seed without disturbing the stubble causing no weeds. If Giants have went to that much detail with no till and weed control, I can't wait for Farming Agency's new Terra maps.

[@kurtisf3366]

Stubble tillage actually gives you a “high” amount of weeds, the help text confirms this. With “high” weeds you can’t actually fully spray them out. After spraying or weeding you will still have 50% weeds and get a yield hit. I’m in the middle of some of my own testing to see just what kind of yield hit that is. The implication is that direct seeding in this game will give you a smaller yield than deep cultivating first.

[@chrismiller3120]

@@kurtisf3366 So, the stubble tillage is just waiting to get disturbed before producing weeds, ok. Is the stubble tillage for the subsoilers the same as the stubble tillage for shallow cultivators and disc harrows or is it different? Cause according to the help text "plows, subsoilers, and spaders do not produce weeds".

[@kurtisf3366]

@@chrismiller3120 there’s definitely some inconsistencies as I know the subsoiler I have used produces weeds and large rocks when it shouldn’t. I can’t really answer your question as I don’t actually know.

[@dansiegel995]

To me, you have simply pointed out the numerous bugs with subsoilers, that I hope someone has reported and Giants will be fixing in the next patch. Personally, I stay away from them now because IMO, there is not a large enough rock picker in game to make it worth the time savings from subsoiling versus plowing - according to the FS Academy, which is more and more seemly appearing to be their defacto game documentation, subsoilers should ALL bring up large rocks, and I say F#$K Large Rocks

[@kuhluhOG]

well, it could also be that this behaviour is intentional although it should be better communicated if that's the case

[@joepvanberkel333]

They have to make this game more consistent where new players also get the chance to learn how the game mechanics work. It is not consistent to have subsoilers that leave stubble tillage and cultivated state. They should all leave cultivated state and do the same in that matter.

[@darthjeder]

Thanks for revealing the passthrough / combination option on some of those implements... i didn't think of that before... will save a pass.

[@mastermoders]

In the game files, the subsoilers which produce "stubble tillage" have an extra useDeepMode="false" alongside isSubsoiler. So one could presume they don't dig as deep as the rest, which makes sense with the rest of the findings (weeds, stones). Subsoilers are handled as a type of cultivator so there's four possibilities for work; deep cultivator, shallow cultivator, deep subsoiler and shallow subsoiler. It would be good if Giants gave an explanation of what each of these would do to your field so that people can understand better which tools they should be using and why. So far there seems to be a lot of features that require testing with trial and error since there is no way of understanding the differences. Even just looking at the code, it doesn't explain the difference between 'useDeepMode' and the effects on stones and weeds are not well explained Anyways, great video as always! I wouldn't have looked into this myself otherwise and I was unaware of subsoilers being considered a type of cultivator that uses the same configuration

[@FarmerKlein]

Interesting info on the useDeepMode. It also does not help visually the models look very simular. When beside eachother they look to cut as deep so there is less visual indicator as to what to expect.

[@reby1000]

Hmm, so either the 3 Agrisem subsoilers are set up wrong and need to be patschet, or we need more detail description/ more different shop categories.

[@odd_inspection3613]

Fantastic video -- goes to show we need a patch ASAP. Field prep right now is just borked all around.

[@cadengraves1956]

I want to know how to get 100 %yield bonus and use the bednar FB 3000 what steps what I have to take to get 100 % yield. Do I still have to fertilize the field before using the bednar or what steps do I take?

[@colmortimer1066]

They should really put in the tool tip what they do. They do this with cultivators where some a shallow, so you know they leave stubble, and the others do not. But i guess we have a video we can re-watch if we need to chose a new option. :)

[@Kindness-tk6no]

So like everyone one else it seems something is a little off with the ground work in FS22. Due to the stones coming up when you use a subsoiler you would have to run the stone picker. Now when you run the stone picker it changes the state of the soil to cultivated. That said I would assume that you would remove your planted crop by running the stone picker. I haven’t tested it yet mainly because I plow then pick stones then roll the field then plant.

[@Gazbeard]

Running the stone picker over a seeded field lifts neither the stones or seeds - I did it by accident on one of my fields thinking it was only cultivated.

[@swimmer8325]

Have you pondered the thought of you getting stubble tillage because you did not mulch the corn stalks prior to subsoiling? I know with the corn and sugar cane it is recommended to mulch, or plow, first that way you get rid of the excess crop stalks.

[@Ryan-re1rs]

I used a mulcher before the sub soiler on corn and the sub soiler wouldn't do anything to the ground. I believe I needed to plow the field before it would turn into a new state and could continue working the land to seed it.

[@hexusknight2306]

That’s either a bug on giants end or you HAVE to use a plow and no substitute implement for those that need plowing after harvesting/mulching. I think all planters need a plowed state vs stubble or mulched. I do not use cultivators anyway as to avoid weeds.

[@rockbrigaderavens]

Great video, I actually was trying to find a video that would help me understand how to avoid stones ending up on my cover crop. I'm using the Kverneland DTX 300 AR with the a-drill attached, I love using this subsoiler followed by the Horsch Joke 4 CT as it produces the (ideal) seedbed state normally, but when i plant a cover crop its impossible to avoid the stones.

[@chrisasst]

You should try the French map, you might get different results yet. Like on elmcreek, with a plow you get small rocks like you are supposed to. On the French map, you get big rocks. Is there any word from giants about updates?

[@Tiger313NL]

With a plough you are supposed to get big rocks. With a cultivator you're supposed to get small rocks.

[@diruida]

@@Tiger313NL thats wrong look under fs22 academy it says plowing small stones

[@hexusknight2306]

@@diruida academy is currently not accurate on multiple implements your still stuck with your own guesswork so I wouldn’t rely on it too much

[@alexandercuna]

Optical illusion, same weedage. Also even if not same weed amount, would it matter if its more or less?

[@edwardmonken4562]

Not same weed amount if you watch the weed % in the field info when he goes through each one you can see they actually are all three different at the last stage and the more weeds does drop your yield on the crop but I would assume that the weeds would be even across them then

[@Gazbeard]

Yes it matters because it affects crop yield and, as people are complaining about under-yielding contract fields, it might be one cause of not hitting harvest target on contracts ... i.e. don't skip weeding and spraying on contract fields. I don't skip it and I've never had an under-harvest yield yet.

[@brendanmassaro9595]

What is the point of the T9 leaving a rolled seedbed state without an attached seeder when the act of seeding afterwards would remove the rolled seedbed state? Or am I just reading into this incorrectly?

[@FarmerKlein]

Im thinking rolled seedbed is the state that you have a prepaired seedbed to seed onto vs after. If you roll a field after seeding I am told you dont get rolled seedbed you only see that state before seeding.

[@hexusknight2306]

@@FarmerKlein the process is seed > roll seabed. Rolling your soil before planting seeds does change the visual of the soil but it’s not considered “rolled” by the game.

[@cbremer83]

I am guessing the textures are more to do with a glitch in the files. Might even be able to adjust it manually in the XML files.

[@joshuawhitt729]

Do not think I would use any of the larger subsoilers or any direct drills with fieldstones on. Which is strange for me since I love direct drills and the large subsoilers

[@rosie684]

8:27 harvested was flashing because that tiny little bit between the 2 subsoiler runs that you didn't get.

[@gabrielfranklin3739]

The Kuhn subsoiler works well with one of the disc harrows

[@Trifler500]

If you have both a subsoiler and a seeder behind it, will the seeder get damaged by the rocks the subsoiler digs up?

[@hexusknight2306]

Most likely

[@travelinman70]

can you run crops between the rows of grapes and olives?

[@FarmerKlein]

I suppose you could but it might make doing the mulching between them difficult and you would need to have an awful narrow seeder unless you just spaced them out a fair bit.

[@TheAMGReviewers]

Maybe oilseed radish, I don't see any other crop being useful, I mean poplar might be good if you like to look at grapes/olives

[@bluebutterfly6394]

any differnce if u mulsh beforehand?

[@hexusknight2306]

Mulching is a means to further increase your yield on the next harvest

[@GoblinKnightLeo]

So the result is that rolled seedbeds produce fewer weeds than cultivated fields, and stubble fields produce no weeds at all. Moreover, the "rolled seedbed" state adds a fertilization state. Meaning if you intend to leave a field fallow for a while, best to leave it in the stubble state.

[@jovannibaeza191]

The last machine has a built in fertilizer

[@GoblinKnightLeo]

@@jovannibaeza191 oh. Well, that explains why my own rolling didn't add fertilization.

[@badbonzai1]

WTF is the front thing for, Fertilizer?

[@edwardmonken4562]

If you look at your weed % in the field info all three are different the rolled was best at 50 then kvernland was 60 and for some reason the Kuhn was at 80 at the last stage tested that seems odd

[@Thebuffshaman]

so with the seeder on the first one you tested you forgot to lower the seeder and it does need seperate lowering than the subsoiler.

[@marumaru6084]

Really dont recommend a power harrow unless you have weeds turned of.

[@neilharbott8394]

I think you also have issues when you use a seeder with built-in power harrow - they might not allow direct seeding, but they do seem to promote weed growth, regardless of ground prep.

[@nobolony690]

This makes my brain hurt. Check this out. If you try using ridgemarkers on a seeder, it brings up rocks but only where the ridgemarker contacts the soil.

[@FarmerKlein]

Makes some sense as I am sure the ridge markers are coded as plows for the field to be marked. But maybe they can somehow code it so if the plow is attached to a seeder it does not do rocks.

[@nobolony690]

That would be a great solution. The problem is when you prepare a field and you rid all the rocks and then you seed with a seeder that doesn't cultivate or has a power harrow so it won't bring up more rocks, when you use the ridgemarkers... rocks appear only where the ridgemarkers touch the soil. What was the point of doing all of the previous field work when more rocks are brought up? They need to fix this.

[@phoenixsui]

This information should just stay in the infromations when you buy the stuff in the shop. Its like you go buy a car in a shop and dont know how many seats it has or what engine until you bought it and drive it.

[@prjndigo]

Turn the planter ON next time, eh?

[@shaun469]

I came here from looking how to set up a bednar to terraland 6000. I'll go back to the manual

[@xxbambamxx7261]

Nicely done 👌

[@vanguardarktv4687]

this actualy goes against my findings when it comes to the tillages state. when its cultivated I get 50% weeds the next month. if its tillages state I get 75% weed the next month. if its a plowed state I get no weeds at all.

[@hexusknight2306]

The legit plows give zero weeds status as of right now they are the only implements that stop weeds from growing . All alternatives to plows will give weeds but not as bad as it is now. Spaders are supposed to be similar to plows but instead of large rocks they are small rocks so they can be rolled back into the soil.

[@vanguardarktv4687]

@@hexusknight2306 yeah i just fixed it by turning stones off and getting s 12m plow mod XD

[@kurtisf3366]

Test idea: look at weeds and yield on some of the different tillage states. I have noticed that if I direct seed or use a wider shallow cultivator that leaves a stubble tillage state I can’t later clear out all the weeds from the crop. I direct seeded canola and soybeans and found that the weeds were visibly more. When I sprayed with herbicide in the first growth stage I was still left with a 50% weeds state and the crop seemed visibly thinner. I’m in the process of running my own test right now in my play through where I planted the same crops, in the same fields, but used a narrower cultivator that offers deep cultivation. So far I was able to spray out all the weeds and get a 0% weed state, but I haven’t harvested yet so I don’t have numbers on the yield. If my theory is true, it will mean that there is a yield loss for direct seeding. Also, since most (maybe all?) large tillage equipment leaves stubble tillage there may not be a way around yield loss for large operations. Depending on what that yield loss actually turns out to be it could be a fairly significant finding. This wouldn’t be very realistic compared to real farming but I wouldn’t be surprised if this is Giants trying to balance the game somewhat.

[@chrismiller3120]

It also might be setting up for their own version of true no-till system, hence why they are no air carts in base game. Tin Hat time.🤔

[@benroman7946]

Hope to see what you find out. If this is true I think I'll turn weeds off.

[@Oroberus]

I don't know if it was my comment, or better to call it rant about how massively Giants fucked up this release but yeah ... wrong descriptions, wrong field textures and/or states and a complete mess an how/why/when/howmuch weed will be produced. It's a bloody nightmare to play more then meaninglessly drive a tractor from left to right in FS22 :((

[@cidsapient7154]

between this newer stuff not really working right and if u enable everything like plowing lime and field stones u cant make money i guess im kinda losing interest a lil

[@butspan7618]

best way to make money is chickens other than that is root crops

[@Ryan-re1rs]

I couldn't even get a helper to sub soil corn for me. I was so confused what was going on and wasted alot of money trying to figure out what the issue was. Stupid game.

[@TheIronDrengin]

Did this get sorted or is it still a complete sh*t show?

[@kaarelk274]

Can't you just confirm with a roller that they are small rocks !? All the youtubers are spreading false info.

[@FarmerKlein]

I did a whole video on rocks and rollers. Yes a roller can push small rocks down into the ground. Did I do it here. No because that would have changed the state of the ground to rolled seedbed like the last big subsoiler. Proper testing limits variables so adding things other than the thing being tested can alter the outcome. The only reason i even used the seeder and the planter was to demonstrate you could connect those things and use them with a subsoiler as if I didnt I know someone would have brought it up.

[@kaarelk274]

@@FarmerKlein You could have used the roller in the end. Because like with the plow there arent small stones even if they look like one.

[@butspan7618]

@@FarmerKlein i found something IMPORTANT that no KZbinr is talking about if you stubble till than plant weeds are lowered by 25% and further weeding only decreases it by another 25% leaving weeds at 50%. if instead you roll stubble tillage before seeding it lowers weed growth to 50% and herbicide and weeder are able to clear the weeds to 0% and i mean the stone roller.

[@ToyotaNutjob]

What is the point of using these sub spoilers for stubble tillage

[@FarmerKlein]

Vs plowing because it's faster and easier for some to use as it's a straight line on the back vs a mold moldbord plow that angled. If yiu run a weeder or herbicide after planting then you negate the additional weed aspect