How Accurate Is "The Muppet Christmas Carol"?: The London History Show

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Sources and further reading:
Ashton, R. 2018. One Hot Summer: Dickens, Darwin, Disraeli, and the Great Stink of 1858.
BBC Sound. 2019. You’re Dead To Me: The Victorian Christmas. open.spotify.com/episode/5NJ4...
Gray, A. 2017. What’s On The Table? Christmas Turkey In Victorian England. web.archive.org/web/202109261...
Harding, P. 2004. The Magic of Christmas.
Hearn, M. P. 1989 ed. The Annotated Christmas Carol.
00:00 Ebenezer Scrooge
20:52 The Ghost of Christmas Past
33:56 The Ghost of Christmas Present
44:23 The Ghost of Christmas Yet To Come
53:11 Final Verdict

[@personperson.7744]

One of my favourite things about a Christmas Carol is that Scrooge isn’t necessarily portrayed as a man who will go to any lengths to make money. He is miserly, sure, but he doesn’t break laws, he does everything that is legally required of him as an employer. Dickens was trying to say that simply doing no evil and following the law was not necessarily enough to be good. You had to go out of your way to be charitable, and many found that controversial. It says it is not ok to be blissfully ignorant. I think some rich people need to realise that today

[@purplepedantry]

We really need to raise our standards in the modern day... [This message has been directed towards every multimillionaire]

[@CelestiaLily]

especially, *especially* since when adjusting for inflation, Scrooge was paying above multiple countries' minimum wages of today💀

[@mollymcnaughton3133]

Celebrate Yule/Winter Solstice like the pagans did? That's how I celebrate...🌠✨✨❄️

[@OdeInWessex]

@@mollymcnaughton3133Does never having been Christened count as being a Pagan? If it does I'm a natural and all for it. I hate the commercialisation of Christmas in our Western Culture and I'm pretty sure it's diametrically opposite to the Christian Prophet's central message.....

[@SamlSchulze1104]

​@@purplepedantry Do you mean Bernie Sanders?

[@laughloveshop2618]

As an American, I can confidently say that all of the 5-year-olds I’ve known would have been very confused by a British pudding. We do not have any puddings like that in America. 😂 However, as a mom, I’m a big proponent of teaching kids small things in passing. They’re the building blocks of future learning.

[@matthewcreelman1347]

I think that fruitcake would be the apt thing to use instead of pudding for North American audiences.

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

Same. I recall hearing the word from time to time as a kid and always picturing something like Jello brand chocolate pudding.

[@Spearca]

_Small things in passing_ is the best way to learn. Ideally you keep doing it for yourself even when mom (or dad) is not available.

[@zappababe8577]

You talking about anachronisms reminds me of the time the scrap metal merchants came around, sounding their horn as they do. Now, these type of people used to also collect rags and bones, so were known as "rag and bone men". My daughter, who was 4 at the time, asked me who was blowing the horn, and when I told her it was the "rag and bone men" she was frightened, as she imagined a man made out of rags and bones! Having typed all that out, I wonder if you even have scrap metal collectors in America? They're usually travelling people (who we used to call "Gypsies" but that word is not PC these days) and they go around in a pick-up truck type of vehicle. They blow their horn so that people know that they're there and people can bring out any items containing metal that they want to get rid of. Obviously, the scrap metal merchants extract as much metal as they can and when they have enough to sell they go and get money for it.

[@Peter-oh3hc]

​@@zappababe8577 I am 67 and grew up in Brooklyn ny. We didn't have rag and bone men. Kirk douglas wrote a book called "the rag man's son" (which he was). That was the first time I heard of it. When I was a kid t knife grinder would come around and ring loud "jingle bells" a d the women would bring out their knives

[@katszulga1888]

Yes, American children would be confused by pudding. I, a Canadian, was confused by British pudding when I started reading books like Agatha Christie. Our pudding is only ever a sweet goop that is kind of a custard consistency in a variety of flavours from chocolate or vanilla to banana or pistachio.

[@rebeccaholcombe9043]

I grew up with "bread pudding" and "Indian pudding" and a heavy diet of British literature and television shows so...who knows.

[@shannonsenzig1676]

I think most US kids are familiar with bread pudding, which is closer to a British pudding, though still not the same. We used to have bread pudding every so often and I think it stands out to kids because there just aren't too many desserts you light on fire.

[@outfitmadeofawesome]

Best not to speak for all of Canada, since we are so big. In Atlantic Canada (especially, but not only, Newfoundland) we eat plenty of Christmas pudding.

[@TheRegisteredNerd]

​@@shannonsenzig1676although I had heard of it as a kid, I was not familiar with what it was like until my 30s? Lol. I want to say it's more of an eastern/southern coastal thing.

[@msmacg]

American and I love plum pudding on Boxing Day with my British friends. Still when I hear pudding I think jiggly, gooey American pudding.

[@mimkyodar]

The bit with the scarf always gets me, because the way Caine plays it; its clear that this is the first present he's been given in a LONG time and he isn't sure what to do with it. He was so focused on making amends that he never once considered people would be nice to him in return.

[@papayacatproductions]

That's the moment that broke me, this year

[@rebeccajames7487]

Every single time 😢

[@509Gman]

He dons it like a badge of honour

[@youllnevertakemealive2833]

Amen. If it weren't already full of muppets, Caine's portrayal alone would make this worth watching.

[@abrahamtomahawk]

At a pub quiz, the question was 'How many ghosts visited Scrooge in A Christmas Carol?' The consensus in our team was 4 until my wife piped up with 'But there were 5. Both Marley brothers visited him.' This was the definitive version of the story for her.

[@TheHollisterPerson]

That’s so amazing and so sweet omg 😭💗

[@mrtalos]

There is, though I cannot post it, a brilliant meme. Patrick Stewart has played Scrooge as well and it has a still image of him looking like he is shouting "there are only FOUR ghosts" Underneath you have the Muppets Marley and Marley just floating there.

[@TAZKs]

​@@mrtalos this sounds brilliant, wish i could find it

[@genericname2747]

In the original book there's 6. Ghost of Christmas Present has 2 ghosts named Ignorance and Want following him

[@marlyd]

@@genericname2747 I've read the book and I don't remember that at all, funny how the muppet version just pushed out the recollection of the original plot points again.

[@TheGolux]

I don't think Scrooge hired the rats as bookkeeping staff, they're just the normal city amount of rats and he said "Well if you're going to be occupying space in my office you're going to have to make yourself useful." Weird ways that a world with muppets would be different but I think it makes enough sense.

[@Melora84]

You know what, given how rat infested London was at the time, I’m going to accept that as ‘accurate’

[@OpalLeigh]

I mean he took it too far but I’ll be damned if Scrooge wasn’t industrial 😂 no free loading rats!

[@Ericshadowblade]

You can look at it that way or you can view this through scrooges eyes and how he sees certain sections of society in this cases he sees his lower class employees as thieving rats while he sees cratchit and the other middle managers as cowardly frogs

[@adamsmall5598]

@@Ericshadowblade As I said on your other post, I'm not sure this is true to the story at all. Admittedly, I am no Dickens expert, but I do not ever remember this being presented as a part of Scrooge's character.

[@Ericshadowblade]

@adamsmall5598 i dont know if it is in the novel its just an angle that you can use when your analysing this version

[@WingedAsarath]

I quite like the "Who cares about stupid old Christmas?!" line from young Scrooge, as it seems a very natural way for a child to react. He's lonely and stuck at the school, and lashes out at the other kids with that statement, even if deep down he doesn't real feel it's true. He absolutely does care about Christmas at that stage. It's exactly how someone that age, and even some adults, react when they're hurting inside.

[@nathaniellindner313]

I will say in defense of YA Scrooge, after Fozziewig tells him to shut up and enjoy the party, he shuts up and enjoys the party. He may not be as cool as Book Scrooge, but he’s still going on the Scrooge journey from less to more uptight and greedy as he ages and isolates himself from the world.

[@StoryMing]

I don’t know. It IS a natural reaction to lash out when you’re hurting, but I feel they could have done a better job of making it clear that he was speaking out of his pain and really didn’t mean it. For me, personally, the outburst makes it just a bit more difficult to find the character sympathetic- easier to [mis]interpret his isolation as voluntarily self-imposed. In the book, one gets the sense that if this lonely and abandoned young boy were invited to join his friends, he would have leaped at the opportunity, rather than reacting with defensive hostility.

[@KairuHakubi]

yeah it seems like both this version of the story and the original both give scrooge a lot of.. implied backstory. Especially with his family. Purely by him saying or hearing things that require that to be the case. They took different routes, but either way the ghost of the past is showing us he changed, without showing us the specific time when he changed (before the flashbacks in this movie, and after the flashbacks in the book. unless there's some part i'm unaware of. haven't read it in some time.)

[@KairuHakubi]

@@StoryMing one of the hardest things for people to do, especially in the 21st century, is get over the idea of someone's isolation as self-imposed or deserved for their behavior, and focus on just fixing them to what you know they should be, knowing that only some past trauma could have caused this.

[@StoryMing]

@@KairuHakubi Self-imposed isolation or other hardship is definitely a thing, and Scrooge DOES *absolutely* have moral responsibility for his own life choices. _However,_ in the original book, at this stage in his life, he is abandoned and neglected, which is not of his doing, nor is he shown to be hostile or resentful over it. To recognize that there are outward forces which had a large bearing in shaping him to be what he became, is NOT, in my opinion, to excuse, condone, or absolve him for what he has done wrong; it is simply to understand better what he needs to overcome and change.

[@JohnnyKelly]

I'm very surprised she didn't cover the fact that Gonzo's Dickens Character *explicity* gives a call to action to the viewer to consider reading the book just prior to the end credits. I would have thought that would have given the Muppets' depiction of this story some well-deserved bonus points. I always remember feeling very happy with that final suggestion from Gonzo as a kid. It gives the original source material such a great amount of acknowledgement and respect/deference. I wish she'd highlighted it here :-)

[@Richard_Nickerson]

Same!

[@ericdculver]

I actually did read the original book because I like the Muppet adaptation so much. It had that suggestion, and I figured that most of Gonzo's great lines were from the book, so I read it.

[@IanWard]

The narration from Gonzo is actually why this is one of my favorite adaptations of the Christmas Carol.

[@sivikasi]

I’m a “muppets is the best adaptation” person. My favourite aspects are how closely they quote the text and Michael Caine’s performance. He supposedly said he was going to play it completely straight like it was a theatre drama. Just brilliant.

[@ludamillion]

I came to say this if no one else had. I remember seeing an interview with him where he said he made a very conscious decision when he took the role to treat the Muppets the same way he would any other costars.

[@hbanana7]

American kids are very opinionated when they see or hear of food they are not familiar with, like boiled pudding. I can imagine kids going “ewwww.” I’ve dealt with plenty of spoiled American kids showing disgust at foreign foods. 😢

[@FabulousSquidward]

​@@hbanana7what?

[@ferretyluv]

That’s what I heard too. That’s why it’s so good.

[@ToaArcan]

He said he was going to play it as if the Muppets were actually classically-trained thespians. Conversely, Tim Curry decided to play Long John Silver as if he were also a Muppet. They are both correct.

[@Phantomphan613]

It's kind of sweet to hear that Dickens' editors were so worried about Tiny Tim that he had to add "Who did NOT die" at the end

[@teresaellis7062]

Sign of a great writer when the editors are so invested in the story that they worry about a specific character. 🥰

[@TheDelinear]

That line always stood out to me as weirdly out of place, as though it were inserted after-the-fact. Fascinating to discover that that's basically what happened.

[@TheTdw2000]

@@teresaellis7062Sounds more like the editors were concerned about the book not selling well if it had a sad ending.

[@maxinegautier3313]

The line "and to Tiny Tim, who did NOT die, he was a second father" is in the original Dickens. They were just being true to the source material -- but Gonzo's delivery is charming and reassuring.

[@maddieb.4282]

@@maxinegautier3313that’s what they said…… you’re just rephrasing their statement?

[@ghastlyghifin4029]

The Tiny Tim "First parting there was among us" scene is especially somber in this film's context, as this is the first Muppets movie production after the death of Jim Henson. Steve Whitmere's then-recent acquisition of the role of Kermit made his mournful performance in this scene have an extra layer of heartbreak to it.

[@wiseforcommonsense]

Oh man! That just makes that scene hit even harder. No wonder Kermit sounded like he was trying not to cry, now I'm trying not to cry

[@RobertJW]

@@wiseforcommonsense possibly Steve *was* trying not to cry!

[@RJKYEG]

That scene gets me every time, even just thinking about it.

[@kathish]

Oh man. This scene already made me cry and now it's going to be even worse. I was 9 in 1990 and Jim Henson's was the first major death of an artistic creator I admired.

[@Richard_Nickerson]

Rowlf was almost entirely retired, as he was one of Henson's personal favorites (and they couldn't retire Kermit). He has a quick cameo in the band at the party, but he's not given any lines until The Muppets with Jason Siegal (and he's probably one of the funniest in the movie).

[@AndrewMcColl]

I love that Michael approached this movie like a serious adaptation, and treated the Muppets like fellow actors. A bit like how Tim Curry, in Muppets Treasure Island, went full Muppet himself and became one with the cast in a different way.

[@ghostmadlittlemiss]

I believe he was quoted as saying he would only do it if he could play it as if he was on stage with the Royal Shakespeare Company. (Also, a cute little detail I found out when Googling for that quote. Apparently, his other reason was that his daughter was 7 at the time and really wanted to see a film her dad was in, but none of his work from the time was age appropriate. So he did it so she could see it.)

[@AndrewMcColl]

@@ghostmadlittlemiss 'for the kids' is also why Raul Julia did Street Fighter.

[@lubumbashi6666]

I expect that is why Michael Caine was chosen. It seems to me a directorial decision was taken to make a faithful, honest and accurate adaptation so they needed an English actor with gravitas.

[@intent2modulate]

I completely agree, except that Muppet Tim Curry is, in fact, his truest form. 😂

[@thegardenofeatin5965]

I would expect nothing less from a Muppet production. I think we have this tendency to dismiss children's programs as frivolous or "not real" somehow but I can't really think of a time when Jim Henson's Creature Workshop ever had that attitude. They tend to put in the thought and the work.

[@tangerinetigerlily1]

From what I heard, this was the first Muppet movie made after Jim Henson's death and his son, Brian Henson, really put his heart and soul into it. It was a project fueled by grief and everyone wanted to get it just right, all the way down to the costuming. I imagine that dedication comes through to us the audience as well, which is why its such a classic to many.

[@Bolshevik_muppet]

Nicole Rudolph, one of the costume historians in KZbin, did an analysis of the costumes going along with a project to recreate one of the looks, and her analysis was that the costumes were very accurate, and actually one of the better versions in that regard.

[@bemasaberwyn55]

The speech that Bob gives about many partings while influenced by the book itself I think was mainly Kermit's Puppeteer speaking about the loss of Jim

[@scribbly2983]

Jim Henson's death was a shock because he died of pneumonia at 53. He didn't realize how sick he was and go to the hospital until it was too late.

[@georgettefrey1065]

​@@scribbly2983it was shocking even to those of us who were young people at the time.

[@williamjameslehy1341]

@@georgettefrey1065 I was five at the time, and his was the first death I was ever aware of. I was devastated, and I think I was vaguely under the impression that Muppets content would no longer be on television.

[@carakellmeyer5037]

I appreciate that Gonzo and Rizzo tell the children that the 3rd ghost will be scary. It also breaks the 4th wall and the tension of the scene. Its a smart way to take away the drama because it is made for children. This would not be done for an adult audience. And personally as a parent, I appreciate the tip off.

[@Jaasau]

Well analyzed!

[@petraw9792]

That doesn't sound that much unlike something Dickens would've done, actually. He kept a good balance between dark and funny moments.

[@carakellmeyer5037]

@petraw9792 Thank you for the info about Dickens. I didn't know that about his writing.

[@petraw9792]

@@carakellmeyer5037 I was mainly referring to A Christmas Carol, actually.

[@valleyscharping]

Watched it with little children this year, and they were quite scared the 3rd ghost. 😁

[@egodeosum]

I like how you don't simply point out inaccuracies, but each time speculate on what might have motivated and justified those decisions.

[@kailunartic6647]

What I’ve heard from fashion historians online is that the MCC has the most accurate costumes out of all the other filmed CC interpretations. Which is cool because most of the costumes are tiny and muppet sized.

[@heidifedor]

Michael Caine’s performance is amazing because he didn’t act like he was preforming against muppets, he played the role seriously as if the rest of the cast were live actors.

[@barbaros99]

That's what the best of the Muppet movies do.

[@AroAceGamer]

Meanwhile, Tim Curry acted like a fellow Muppet in Treasure Island, which is equally amazing.

[@missarose6159]

​@@AroAceGamer that would be because Tim Curry IS a muppet, in the best possible way.

[@AroAceGamer]

@@missarose6159 Lmao. True.

[@TheBrandoncarter]

I see you also saw that tumbler post that was reposted on reddit.

[@davidshi451]

Abby Cox made a fantastic video about how insanely accurate the costumes are! They even made sure that less wealthy characters were wearing 1830's clothes, since not everyone can afford to keep up with the latest fashions.

[@TiffMarche]

Yes! Abby's video is phenomenal! It's one of my favorite KZbin videos ever. Nicole Rudolph also has a video series where she makes Gonzo's outfit from this movie, shoes included.

[@snowangelnc]

When I taught 4th grade I would read A Christmas Carol to my students every year. After we finished, I would show the movie in class. The muppet version immediately came to mind, but for academic value I wanted to use the version that was the closest to the book that I could find. Keeping that in mind, I looked through several versions. The muppet version came out the winner anyway, even when considering it on equal grounds with many of the other classic adaptations. The deciding factor ended up being the sheer number of lines that were quoted directly from the book.

[@lbatemon1158]

The George C. Scott has always been my favorite, but it is scary at moments.

[@RJKYEG]

Yeah I think this version, for the most part, is faithful where it counts.

[@TheMarcHicks]

The most faithful adaptation I have ever seen is the 1999 version with Patrick Stewart.

[@ghostmadlittlemiss]

​@lbatemon1158 Is that the one where the Ghost of Christmas Future sends Scrooge to Hell down a dark tunnel? (I think it was Hell anyway, it's been a long time since I saw it.)

[@snowangelnc]

I agree. If it hadn't been the muppets then it would have been either the George C. Scott version and the Patrick Stewart version, and that would have been a difficult decision.

[@ricucci-hillmusic]

The whole thing with the Ghost of Christmas present having a bad short-term memory is actually my favorite addition, about how he is always living in the present. I'm surprised that other adaptations haven't included that. Also just because you mentioned it several times, yes children would be confused by "pudding" and frankly many adults because Christmas pudding is not a thing here. Also we understand pudding a a chocolate-y mouse type of thing, which I know is not what British people mean by pudding

[@christineg8151]

In regards to Miss Piggy's style... I feel like at least part of it is emphasizing that the Cratchits don't have enough money for her to BE fashionable. Her clothing is neat and well-cared for, but her husband certainly didn't have the money to keep her up to date.

[@maryanneslater9675]

Yes, it's like she found the prettiest things she could in the secondhand shop and decided not to care if they were a decade out of style.

[@maddieb.4282]

Yes but 99% of people watching the film would not have understood the subtle differences in Miss Piggy’s costume to be reflective of 1830s vs 1840s style…

[@maddieb.4282]

@@maryanneslater9675secondhand clothing shops themselves would be a historical anachronism…

[@jonathanpinkerton1298]

​@@maddieb.4282Even if secondhand shops are an anachronism, secondhand clothing surely is not. They may not have had Goodwill and Salvation Army stores, but the fashionably dressed would have done *something* with their old fashions.

[@MrStGeorgeIllawarra]

This is confirmed in the directors commentary. They deliberately gave Piggy outfits a few years and slightly not in fashion because they would of been cheaper secondhand.

[@beardedgeek973]

I always interpreted young Scrooge saying "who cares about stupid old Christmas" in this movie as more a resentment about his parent; they pay to get rid of him, basically, and don't let him come home over the winter holidays, and so he says what he says instead of breaking down in front of his classmates in tears because his parents doesn't care enough about him to have him come home.

[@wherefancytakesme]

Yeah, and him starting to be miserly as a young adult because he never wanted to be poor again-- this version being just a little earlier in life.

[@Painterly_Collage]

Exactly! This is the defensive reaction of a child who is hurting, not an expression of actual antipathy toward Christmas itself (as of yet).

[@OscarOSullivan]

He learns to love Christmas and people under Fezziwig

[@snowangelnc]

You are exactly right. I'm a teacher and have worked with countless elementary students, and I can tell you that the "who cares about stupid old Christmas" outburst would be a very normal thing to come from a neglected child. He's disappointed and hurt so he tries to make himself feel a little better by telling himself that he doesn't actually want what he's missing. At the same time, he also has his defenses way up because he's afraid of looking pathetic to his peers and becoming an object of pity. That's why the lines that set him off were "Hurry up Ebenezer, the last coach is leaving," "Come on, he never goes home for Christmas."

[@ImB4k4]

Oh hey! I can't tell if you just skipped past it for time, but if you haven't seen it, I recommend the cut with Belle's song, When Love Has Gone, that was left out of the theatrical release. (It's finally on Disney+, in the extras, as "full length version" or some such!) It makes Rizzo's bawling make more sense, it marks the emotional turning point for present-day Scrooge, the very next song says Christmas is "in all the places we find love", and the ending song, The Love We Found, is a direct reprise that brings the whole thing full circle. As good a movie as it is without that song, it's on another level with it included.

[@Richard_Nickerson]

It was on the VHS copy. We didn't realize it was an extended cut until we got it on DVD years later. We always fast-forwarded the song. We were excited to finally have a skip scene button, but we didn't even need it. As a musician and composer though, I will agree that the musical reprise makes the cut a weird decision, and as an adult I see its appeal.

[@ghostmadlittlemiss]

Oh, it's in the extras! I was very confused when I watched it on Disney+ this Xmas just gone and saw the song wasn't there, despite reading in more than one place that it was added back in.

[@thulcandran]

@@Richard_Nickerson The version with the song is now called the extended cut but in reality it is the theatrical cut. The song there when I saw the movie in the theater in the 90’s. Some daft executive thought the song was too boring for children so he cut it from the first DVD edition. After a lot of uproar from fans it was placed back in the so-called extended edition on Blu ray.

[@Richard_Nickerson]

@@thulcandran It wasn't "some daft executive", it was based on what people said coming out of the theaters. I got to tell people asking about Pride, Prejudice, & Zombies that they messed up the whole thing when I walked out of theaters, but I don't think enough people complained with me. This is standard movie-making procedure. Edit: Again, it always existed on the VHS, and it *is* an option on the regular DVD. You're acting as if it completely disappeared when the comment you're responding to already disproves that.

[@TheRegisteredNerd]

It's so amazing that you did this comparison, my boyfriend and I were talking about it the other day. He told me, and I verified on the Wiki page, that Michael Caine said ""I'm going to play this movie like I'm working with the Royal Shakespeare Company. I will never wink, I will never do anything Muppety. I am going to play Scrooge as if it is an utterly dramatic role and there are no puppets around me." And he did an incredible job! Also, we sadly do not grow up knowing what a Christmas pudding is honestly. Not unless you're the strange child who sits in the corner reading books all the time. . . 😂 Although it didn't understand it well until I was an adult and watched GBBS for the first time ❤

[@jimsanderson9020]

I read recently that this is Michael Caine's favorite of his film performances. In the article Caine said that he crafted the whole of his character as though he was playing with humans - perfectly straight with no mugging. He was proud that the youngest members of his family could comfortably watch it.

[@teresaellis7062]

I am not surprised after seeing just part of the movie recently. During the song sung by the spirit of Christmas present, Michael Caine is so effortlessly happy. I especially love that last detail. Michael Caine is an awesome actor, but a lot of his movies are not for littles. 😅 He and Tim Curry are great in their Muppet movies. Tim Curry went as over the top as the Muppet characters, so he wasn't overshadowed by their shenanigans. My favorite line is "Upstage, lads. This is my only number."

[@Ericshadowblade]

It works really well as it opens an avenue to see how scrooge sees other people some as rats others as pigs and frog while the noticely human are his family and more wealthy classes

[@DumbBunny5328]

On the opposite side of the spectrum, Tim Curry made himself a muppet for muppet treasure island

[@MovieEggman]

The best thing about this adaptation is that Michael Caine treats the Muppets as fellow actors instead of just fuzzy fictional puppets on an elevated platform. He really brought his A-Game to this adaptation.

[@jamesmatthews291]

"OK Michael, it's a Muppet movie, you're the only human actor in the film, feel free to play with it, have some fun" "Nope, I'm going to play it absolutely arrow-straight!"

[@bobkatfan2013]

Same with A Muppet Treasure Island. Tim Curry acts like he’s one of them and it works brilliantly.

[@thomasrevill7723]

Michael Caine is a professional. Much as a professional plumber doesn't discriminate based on the circumstances of his client, neither does he worry about the nature of his co-workers.

[@Jonnyg325]

​@@bobkatfan2013 Tim Curry decided to play Silver as the most charismatic bombastic pirate he could, I think the Henson Company had to up their game to jeep up with him honestly

[@JanetCowan]

I read an interview once where Michael Caine said (paraphrased), “The only way this movie will work is if I play this 100% seriously, as if I’m working alongside human actors.”

[@gillian1111]

Was excited to see this. My aunt did the costuming on this film ❤

[@shannoncrowder1528]

Has she seen the Abby Cox video?!? The costuming for this movie is just so insanely good! I hope she knows how much we love her work for it!

[@gillian1111]

@@shannoncrowder1528 I'll have to ask her!

[@SilverLikeStarlight]

I hope she knows how many people really appreciate her efforts!

[@MissMisnomer_]

Your aunt is a superstar and the amount of raw serotonin I receive every rewatch when I get to see all the delightful costumes filling up my screen cannot be understated

[@kmbehrens14]

I’ve taught A Christmas Carol to 8th graders for several years, and I’m so happy you spent time on the Ghost of Christmas Past! So hard to make sense of that description, and SO MUCH WEIRDER than you expect. I see the Ghost as a representation of a candle and, in some ways, like memory (our ability to hold many “ages” in our memory).

[@tomshortell1046]

For Fozziewig and Mom, that's a reference to the 1987 Muppet Family Christmas special. It was a crossover where the Muppets, Sesame Street muppets and Fraggles all wind up at the country home of Fozzie's mother. It's fantastic, and I highly recommend it. Swedish Chef sees Big Bird and immediately plans to cook him for Christmas dinner. ("Gobla gobla humunga!")

[@Brasswatchman]

To be fair, though, given that the setting is England, it should be "Fozziwig and Mum," not "Mom."

[@tomshortell1046]

@@Brasswatchman Excellent point considering this is all about historical accuracy

[@phastinemoon]

And then, Swedish Chef immediately changes his mind when Big Bird gives him a present. It's genuinely charming and heartwarming.

[@andyc8257]

@@Brasswatchman not necessarily. In the Midlands, Mom is quite commonly used rather than Mum or Mam. It's not necessarily a straight American/British thing, even if people tend to assume it is.

[@scribbly2983]

The use of the Gonzo as a narrator to get Dickens' prose in is why this is my favorite adaptation. Those lines are just so good.

[@vickychurch2353]

As an American, British puddings are very confusing to me. My concept of pudding was the Jello style pudding. I read a lot as a kid and couldn't fathom how it could be boiled!

[@mindyschocolate]

Same. Especially chocolate pudding.

[@alcalavicci6483]

There was a time before microwave ovens when Jello pudding was cooked on a stove so id point to modern conveniences as a part of the disconnect@@mindyschocolate

[@Cheepchipsable]

Puddings are basically anything for desert - bread and butter/custard pudding, rice pudding. Just had a look, you mean Jello brand puddings, which Brits would probably describe as a mousse due to it's consistency.

[@beckyowens2586]

@@alcalavicci6483 Oh please don't boil water in the microwave! For Jello or any other reason. A microwave can super heat water past the boiling point and it doesn't form bubbles. Then when the water is agitated, as one does when removing it from the microwave, it can explode. There are tons of videos with footage of people getting horribly scalded. If you absolutely have to, open the microwave, then don't touch it for a couple of minutes. Also, beware making fruit curd in the microwave, something about the sugar and eggs can do it too.

[@sirgreil]

@@Cheepchipsable Puddings are solidified, viscous mixtures that can be eaten with a spoon. They are liquids set into a solid, usually by cooking.

[@AlWynC]

07:20 There's an interesting radio interview with Paul Williams, songwriter for The Muppet Christmas Carol, where he recounts his struggle with his own demons around the time of writing, and that coming up with lyrics pertaining to the themes of self-imposed loneliness, redemption, love and, of course, sweet seasonal sentiment proved especially therapeutic. The series was called 'The Sound of Cinema' on BBC Radio 3, it should still be available to listen to. Wonderful video! I really enjoyed your informative and witty take on my childhood introduction to A Christmas Carol!

[@dajolaw]

I have a friend and coworker who focuses on historical clothing, primarily late-18th century but branching into other eras. She gushes over the costumes in this movie, speaking breathlessly about whoever designed Gonzo's outfits. And believe me, she is not easily impressed. The fact that a children's movie filled with puppets and talking rats, pigs, and frogs has more authentic and well-researched costuming than many big budget historical epics fascinates me.

[@twobluestripes]

You’d probably enjoy Nicole Rudolph’s videos on the costumes in this film, then!

[@ToastyNoneofyourbusiness]

In the animation industry, they call this kinda thing "bumping the lamp," which means something along the lines of "to put in a lot of effort into something very few will notice." The term originates from the movie Who Framed Roger Rabbit, specifically the scene where Roger bumps his head on the lamp in the parlor, causing it to swing back and forth. This swinging lamp was a nightmare for the animators, who had to hand-paint every light and shadow on Roger. Why was this included in the film if it was so difficult? Well, aside from being comedic, the director wanted the Toons to interact with the real world as much as possible, to thoroughly convince the audience that they are physically present in the scene. Muppeteers work on a similar philosophy. It is very difficult to convince an audience that a bunch of felt, thread and fur is alive and present. And yet they not only manage to convince the audience that the puppets are alive, but even the actors and crew who often interact with them. Many people who have worked with Muppeteers have reported talking to the muppets and not the puppeteers, even when they can clearly see the puppeteers. There's even been instances where people have placed microphones on the puppets and not the puppeteers by mistake. It is the attitude of having to work extra hard to convince people that an inanimate object is alive that created the strive for historical accuracy. *That's* why the Muppet Christmas Carol is so accurate. Because they already have to put in more work to suspend your disbelief than a live action human.

[@medeaworbs6970]

it's not a children's movie

[@Rocketsong]

I really like Gonzo as Dickens. Most adaptations feel like a stage play, or a movie adapted from a stage play, to the point that you would think A Christmas Carol was originally a play, and not a novel/novella. Gonzo as Dickens gives it much more of a "storyteller" feel.

[@morgansidhe3543]

I recall the reasoning for that is children are presented here with the Muppets ( for childhood joy) that may, in time, make an older child or young adult want to read the actual story.

[@InnuendoXP]

Honestly in material where the narrator's voice adds so much, I wish I saw this kind of narrator-as-character insert more often. Eg. Any future adaptation of anything Douglas Adams has ever written

[@Dave01Rhodes]

@@InnuendoXPI love how The Guide takes the role of narrator in the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy radio plays. It lets more of Douglas Adams’ writing get in.

[@snowangelnc]

The perfect finishing touch is when the characters finish singing, and as the credits begin to roll we hear Rizzo's voice saying "Great story, Mr. Dickens," and Gonzo answers, "Thanks. Hey, if you liked this then you should read the book."

[@Regfife]

I think Dickens would've approved. He started the endless adaptations of this story with his live readings, where he was constantly revising it to make it work for a live audience.

[@kirstenpaff8946]

If you really want to nerd out about the costumes in The Muppet Christmas Carol, I highly recommend Abby Cox's video on the movie's costumes. Also, Nicole Rudolph did a series of videos where she created a historically accurate, human sized version of Gonzo's costume. Both of them pretty much conclude that the movie's costuming was insanely impressive by any standard, and absolutely mind blowing when you consider that its target audience was kids who weren't even old enough to read, let alone know anything about historical clothing.

[@happy18thump]

I believe “Fuzziwig and Mom” is a call back to the TV special “A Muppet Family Christmas” which took place at Fozzie’s Mom’s house. That special also ended with a rare Jim Henson appearance and I think is one of if not the last time all the muppet tv shows were in one spot. “A Muppet Christmas Carol” is the first big Muppet project after Jim Henson died and that his son, Brian Henson, directed. All that to say, I’m not surprised they used Fozzie’s Mom in this adaptation (unless she’s in the original book?).

[@robertgronewold3326]

We DON'T have Christmas pudding in the US, not as a standard tradition. Just yesterday I was having to explain what a 'figgy pudding' was to my dad, because he had spent 83 years thinking the song said 'sticky pudding'. I had to explain the whole flaming Christmas pudding to him, he was truly ignorant on the fact.

[@daveash9572]

The closest parallel to this I can come up with as a Brit, is that I have in my life heard the word Poindexter twice, once in a song, and once in Dodgeball, and it took a considerable amount of digging for me to find out what it meant.

[@kwd3109]

Ummm, ok

[@robertgronewold3326]

@@kwd3109 Great conversation.

[@Brasswatchman]

Heh. "Piggy pudding."

[@ehowiehowie7850]

You did ...but u don't anymore...watch Townsemds 18th century cooking videos on plum pudding etc x think it just died out

[@clear-carbon]

I always thought it was impressive that Charles Dickens managed to do a book adapation of muppets christmas carol before the movie came out

[@djackmanson]

He was quite close to the canonical Muppet version too. Good on him for not messing with perfection.

[@hive_indicator318]

He was truly ahead of his time

[@Brasswatchman]

Knowing the Doctor probably helped him quite a bit.

[@LadyGavGav]

I was sceptical that I'd enjoy such a long video, but I've found it incredibly informative. Also, I've just realised for the first time that the additional Marley is given the name Robert, which surely must be a reference to Bob Marley.

[@Richard_Nickerson]

Yes, Robert Marley = Bob Marley!

[@pillowsandquilts5335]

This is lovely. I adore your videos. I'm a 34 year old american and i can safely say that i never heard of pudding, that was not what the english would call a custard, until watching Bake Off. Even now... if you say you've made pudding, everyone would expect custard-- unless they knew you were British, then they would not be sure what you bringing-- something with meat or a dessert or a custard-- no one would know for sure.

[@mollywantshugs5944]

Something I really appreciate about A Christmas Carol is that it uses Christmas as a setting, but it’s really focused on how society (well-to-do people in particular) treated the poor. Things have certainly changed since the 1840s of course, but the upper class’ attitude towards the poor not so much. I really respect that the Muppets adaptation faithfully brought that into their version

[@bobolobocus333]

Ooh - Madeline PFP!

[@KateBerger]

I really appreciate this explanation! Thanks!

[@nimnimn6930]

Yeah, the problem isn't that scrooge doesn't like Christmas, it's that if you can't at least be decent to each other on Christmas what hope do we have for the rest of the year

[@anitanalley2417]

George C Scott's version jams the candle "snuffer" on the 1st ghost. Grinding it to the ground--awakening to find himself wringing his blankets, as if strangling thempirit.

[@ZipplyZane]

I don't disagree with you. But it also was very much about Christmas. Dickens wrote it because he didn't like how people were treating Christmas. But he also was explicitly using the Spirit of Christmas to push for better conditions for the poor as well. He had other books on this topic, of course. It was a form of activism. If you haven't seen it, I very much recommend the Annotated A Christmas Carol. It goes heavily into Dickens's intent. He was both a bit proponent of Christmas as well as caring about the poor.

[@JHaven-lg7lj]

One of the things I love about the Muppets Christmas Carol is how much work they put into the costumes

[@cottoncosplay]

have you seen abby cox’s video on the costumes?

[@CheshirePhrog]

LoL! I was just going to say that. I think Abby's Muppet Christmas Carol video pretty much put her channel on the map and it is a solid video she geeks out hard about smocking etc. it is charming

[@ajjones8013]

Nichole Rudolph's recreation of Gonzo's costume was a true masterpiece of costume-tube as well!

[@CheshirePhrog]

Stars! Somehow I've missed that! I shall go look for it. Thanks

[@Keleigh3000]

How this movie was not even nominated for a best costume Oscar is beyond me.

[@MadHatter42]

The bit where Scrooge tries to snuff out the Ghost of Christmas Past is actually shown in the 2009 Christmas Carrol staring a motion-captured Jim Carrey. It’s made even more over the top as the spirit’s metal cap flies up like a rocket, launching Scrooge over the London skyline.

[@Jus10Ed]

It also happens in the George C. Scott version of A Christmas Carol, although it's deliberate, not accidental.

[@kimrickmon5838]

This is one of my all-time favorite Christmas movies, and it was released while I was in college. However, I have adored the Muppets since I was a little kid. So, in my world, they make stories better. I really love the Muppets treasure Island too. Thank you for covering this for Christmas. My families been having a rough time lately and this cheered me up.

[@azuraroycroft2419]

Same, love this movie and Muppets Treasure Island, two of my favorite movies to this day

[@darkcrystalmagik3369]

Cool, I've got to check out the Treasure Island one, that's probably the only muppet film I've never seen. I was also no longer a kid when this muppet movie came out, but I loved the movie even then, bc of how much I loved them in my childhood. it's actually pretty awesome how a silly little you tube video can offer mental relief when shit gets hard

[@sidhawker]

The muppet team absolutely did their best work when adapting classic literature in a Muppety way. I hope they do more like those some day.

[@Moriarty70]

The detail of Fozziwihig and Mom is a nod back to the ‘87 Muppet Family Christmas where every Muppet character, as well as Doc from Canadian Fraggle Rock, end up at Fozzie’s mom’s house.

[@509Gman]

Watch out for the icy patch!

[@DrFranklynAnderson]

It’s cold enough to freeze your Winnebago!

[@IanWard]

I came here to write this. I wish Muppet Family Christmas wasn't so hard to come by.

[@Doomscrollingalong]

this is one of my favorite versions of "A Chritmas Carol" because of Michale Caine's remarkable performance. In many adaptations Scrooge doesn't show regret until the Ghost of Christmas Future--which give the impression that Scrooge changes out of fear of punishment rather than understanding his mistakes. I prefer the intperpretation that Scrooge has had an epiphany and that's why he changes--which Caine does fabulously.

[@Painterly_Collage]

Yes!! I know people think of this as a movie for children because of the Muppets, and it is accessible to children because of them, yet I didn't see this movie until I was nearly 40 and it is my favorite. Michael Caine gave the first portrayal of Scrooge as someone I could relate to, not just some hollow Christmas-hating ogre.

[@Impacatus]

Agreed. In the book, even during the Christmas Past segment, Scrooge was starting to see himself in some of the people he shunned and realizing that he could have made them happy, just as his sister and old employer had for him. As the video said, it wasn't about psychoanalyzing him. It was about reminding him of what he used to be, and of how much it meant to him when he was shown kindness during his times of need.

[@user-zk9pe2ed6w]

The pudding thing actually made me laugh- my (US) family got a sticky toffee pudding this Christmas and everyone was so confused. My grandmother in her 80s had never had a british pudding and my mother in her 40s had never even heard of it

[@Super10788]

I hope you consider making this a yearly event! I would love hearing you examine different versions of The Christmas Carol

[@ZipplyZane]

I suspect "Fuzziwig and Mom" is a reference to the earlier _Muppet Family Christmas_ where Fozzie and pals go and visit his mother for Christmas. And I don't think Fozzie tends to wear shoes--but then, neither does Kermit. That said, Fozzie would be the type to tell a joke about his *bear* feet.

[@firiel2366]

Literally when she pointed that out I was thinking, "Of course he's not wearing shoes, he has BEAR feet" 😂

[@gen3630]

Would American children be confused by Christmas pudding? Yes. 😂 I was also confused by “sweetmeats” which showed up a few times in the books I liked to read. I mean, it’s good to bridge those culture gaps, too, so maybe they could have left the pudding in. But yes, Americans being confused by British pudding is a thing!

[@janets7291]

And I understand that generally, "pudding" means dessert, not necessarily what us North Americans would think of as pudding. Of course, in this context, "pudding" means Christmas pudding.

[@kaitlyn5324]

Yeah and pudding is a very specific thing here.

[@dscamacho]

Americans also don't have many boiled desserts in the style of figgy pudding, which Americans have heard of from carolers singing We Wish You a Merry Christmas, but aren't likely to have had it.

[@JDraper]

What Is Christmas Pudding?

[@dscamacho]

@@JDraper I did not know it's traditionally set on fire!

[@rnptenafly]

One of the things you kept mentioning was how this movie is aimed at very young children. You even said five-year-old several times. What you must keep in mind is that the Muppets had been around since the mid 60s, and popularized on Sesame Street starting in 1969, followed by The Muppet Show in the 70s. The Muppet Christmas Carol wasn’t released until 1992. Most of the fans of the Muppets grew up with them, and at this point were Adults. So, even though a lot of the specific words were modernized and Americanized, as a whole it was as much for adults as for children.

[@SilverLikeStarlight]

I've always lived how The Muppets has always been accessible to kids and adults!

[@mariem8033]

You might really enjoy “The Man Who Invented Christmas” starring Matthew Stevens and Charles Plummer, and Jonathan Price (among others). It’s about the writing of “A Christmas Carol.” We see the motivation and also some of the emotional background in Dickens’ life. I think that in a way it helps you to realize how our vision of Christmas is shaped by Dickens and why we feel nostalgic for that time.

[@adoxartist1258]

36:07 I think Scrooge's awkward dance is more than just to accommodate the puppet. He's been a shriveled up old crank for so long he's lost a lot of strength and flexibility, which means now that he's moving in unaccustomed ways looks awkward and painful because it's so strangeand difficult. It reinforces the huge change he's suddenly making in his life.

[@adoxartist1258]

Also, in my experience, there is no Christmas pudding in the US. Maybe in some specific families, up in New England. I'm in my 50s and am still a little confused about pudding that gets boiled and set on fire. Pudding, in my experience, comes from a box and sets up in the fridge, but I've never been very fancy. 😁

[@christajennings3828]

​@@adoxartist1258it varies from family to family. I was born and raised in California, and my mom used to make steamed Persimmon Pudding. Similar in many ways to Christmas pudding, and we sometimes ate it at Christmas, with hard sauce (butter, powdered sugar, and liquor).

[@DLMoridin]

It tends to be more like a cake with certain wintery fruits in it. The cake part is often made with brandy, if i recall correctly. It tended to end up pretty dry so they boiled it to make it easier to eat. Due to the alcholal content it was set on fire to make it taste of brandy and minimise the intoxication effect. @@adoxartist1258

[@adoxartist1258]

​@christajennings3828 Very cool! I've never seen anything about Christmas pudding outside British shows and movies. Happy Holidays! Merry Christmas! Happy 2024!

[@porgy29]

While this was absolutely made (at least largely) for a US audience, the Jim Henson Company did a lot of work in England, including filming 5 seasons of The Muppet Show there, and Frank Oz (Miss Piggy among others) was even born in England (and has lived there off and on during his life) so I suspect many of the core people involved were familiar with the differences between US and British Christmas, but made the changes intentionally. And for most people in the US, if they have heard of "Christmas pudding" it is because they have read/seen a version of A Christmas Carol, that has it in it , but may not know exactly what it is supposed to be. Not only is it not a tradition here, but "pudding" now refers to a completely different set of deserts (like custards).

[@MonkeyJedi99]

I am an American in my mid-50's and have had my first ever "pudding" in the UK style over thanksgiving. I would say we would most understand it as a dessert bread. For us, pudding is closer to what the UK calls custard, though our puddings are generally sweeter than UK custards. Also, for a lot of us, a pudding comes in a small box and you add the powder to milk.

[@RAFMnBgaming]

@@MonkeyJedi99 I wonder how close american pudding is to angel delight, which is an add powder to milk dessert we have in the UK.

[@johnd6487]

@@RAFMnBgaming I'd been thinking much the same thing.

[@cheshirecat882]

The puppet who later became known as One-Eyed Jack played both the prisoner and fruit seller, but was also made for this film. Thus it was a decision to have a new puppet dressed as a stripped prisoner for this film. I believe it really is just a cartoonism, and possibly the director wanting to quickly depict the Christmas spirit even within the jail cells. One-Eyed Jack would only appear in Muppet Treasure island, and Most Wanted.

[@Richard_Nickerson]

Even the vegetables don't like him!

[@bluesheep6]

In the scene from the original in which Bob Cratchit involuntarily applauds Scrooge’s nephew’s speech, Scrooge does in fact verbally admonish Cratchit (after the clerk has accidentally extinguished his own fire!): ‘Let me hear another sound from you… and you’ll keep your Christmas by losing your situation’. So the Muppet’s Scrooge yelling at the clerks is in line with the story. Also, Bob actually does go to Scrooge in the hope of replenishing the coal for his fire, and Scrooge refuses. Dickens uses strangely subtle language to tell the reader this, with no dialogue, so it’s quite easy to miss! I’m really glad you mentioned that there was no ‘unemployment line’ :)

[@jonahfalcon1970]

I don't think he hates Christmas during the Fozziwig party. Instead, he's just surprised at how much the party costs and Fozziwig saying "Don't worry about it". The breakup scene implies that Scrooge is more and more concerned with money. So he HAS changed.

[@jonahfalcon1970]

What they SHOULD have done was show Scrooge having fun at the party before meeting a girl.

[@tgbotg]

Yeah, my thought is that he was ambivalent about Christmas, not thinking of it as super special, perhaps due to his upbringing. Finding Belle changes him for a little while, but he reverts back to his natural state after awhile, something Belle doesn't appreciate.

[@snowangelnc]

@@tgbotg Yes, that's how I see it too. Belle's character does make sense in that context. When she meets him, he's being introduced by an old friend who describes him as "the finest young financial mind in the city." So, the information she has on first sight is that he's smart, ambitious, and highly recommended by someone who's opinion she respects. He's also handsome, well-mannered, and seems interested in her. Your right that he would change for a while after meeting Belle. It's very common for a person to show their best selves when they're excited to be in a new relationship and are trying to impress someone. And yes, that does inevitably fade and they go back to their natural states over time. It would also be very normal for Belle to focus on his good traits and his potential and to hope that the negatives that she does see would be what would fade over time. As he becomes colder and more distant, she'll stay for a while with the hope that something is only temporarily making him act out of character and he'll go back to normal eventually. Hopefully it will be like he says, and things will be better once he's got the secure job and is less stressed about financial stability. After a while though she'll finally accept that this IS normal for him and the way he was at the beginning was the part when he was acting out of character. That's when they break up. It's far from an unheard-of relationship arc.

[@snowangelnc]

@@tgbotg Yes, that's how I see it too. Belle's character does make sense in that context. When she meets him, he's being introduced by an old friend who describes him as "the finest young financial mind in the city." So, the information she has on first sight is that he's smart, ambitious, and highly recommended by someone who's opinion she respects. He's also handsome, well-mannered, and seems interested in her. Your right that he would change for a while after meeting Belle. It's very common for a person to show their best selves when they're excited to be in a new relationship and are trying to impress someone. And yes, that does inevitably fade and they go back to their natural states over time. It would also be very normal for Belle to focus on his good traits and his potential and to hope that the negatives that she does see would be what would fade over time. As he becomes colder and more distant, she'll stay for a while with the hope that something is only temporarily making him act out of character and he'll go back to normal eventually. Hopefully it will be like he says, and things will be better once he's got the secure job and is less stressed about financial stability. After a while though she'll finally accept that this IS normal for him and the way he was at the beginning was the part when he was acting out of character. That's when they break up. It's far from an unheard-of relationship arc.

[@fitandhappy42]

Abby Cox did a great video looking specifically at the costumes from the perspective of a costume historian, and Nicole Rudolph has one where she remakes Gonzo’s (main) Dickens costume from the movie (generally the costumes are all shockingly accurate considering they’re mostly on puppets).

[@Ali-mv3jc]

Yes! I love this version partly because of the costumes, they're more accurate than a lot of other adaptations I've seen and it made me irrationally happy

[@sarahleanos129]

My favorite part is the observation that Gonzo’s shoes are on the wrong feet.

[@Thekidfromcalifornia2.0]

Nicole’s gonzo costume made me envious. ❤

[@Brasswatchman]

​@@sarahleanos129 Well, they would be, wouldn't they? 😆

[@lubumbashi6666]

Jenny's videos are always a joy, the depth of her knowledge is incredible. If I ever make it to London with my family, I am definitely going to book one of her tours.

[@Juniper_berries]

1:36 "I don't want to stop it this early, but..." I have an auntie who is an absolute history buff. Watching movies with her is something like this! She'll stop the movie every time something is historically inaccurate to explain to me in (great) detail how it _actually_ was and why it was like that. ❤

[@evelinaanville]

I have a very hard time at Christmas and this truly lifted my spirits! Just watching The Muppets Christmas Carol wouldn’t have done it. I needed the critique to really do it 😃. Thank you and Merry Christmas 🎄

[@kevinschultz6091]

Regarding the whole "pudding" idea: historically, a pudding is a method of cooking, where you use a wrapping of some sort to keep your ingredients together while you boil it. You could have all different types of puddings, but the invention of the pudding cloth (which is re-usable, as opposed to previous versions which were basically haggis-adjacent sausages) made puddings much less expensive to make. As such, it became popular as a lower-class way of cooking a relatively large meal for a family. Because it's basically just "stuff somthing in a cloth and boil it", you can have egg or milk-based puddings (which tended to be more desserts), or meat or bread-based puddings (which tended to be more of the main course, although the bread puddings were arguably more cake-like). Americans leaned towards the custard-style desert puddings (custard was developed separately, but merged with puddings as a name and concept), as Americans usually didn't need to make main-course style puddings, as they had other things they wanted to eat. However, the dessert-style puddings were still moderately popular. In the 1840's a food scientist was able to develop custard powder (which was cornstarch-based), which was WAY easier to use as a thickening agent, and so Americans went even more towards puddings as desserts. So, yeah - Americans consider puddings to be custard-deserts because we stopped using the pudding style of cooking for main courses, but still used it for desserts to make custards (and thus the names converged). Whereas in England it was originally a main course, but became more of a dessert, and then a synonymn for the dessert course, but still included cake-style puddings. (And historically a few savory puddings, such as black pudding, still exist.) EDIT: Sources - the Wikipedia article on "pudding", a "history of pudding" timeline on a food history website that came up in my Google search, and (I think) a "Tasting History with Max Miller" KZbin episode on puddings that I watched a few weeks ago.

[@ulrikschackmeyer848]

Thanks a bundle for another little, historical lesson, knowledge that I pleased to have. Not only for my own pleasure but something that this particular food and word buff looks forward to showing off with. Sould I just mention that the local Scandinavian black pudding ('blood sausage' ) has been a VERY traditional, local dish, especially at Christmas, ever since our Viking days - and probably earlier. Merry Christmas

[@lohphat]

“Haggis-adjacent” is my new profile orientation.

[@dianelipson5420]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@stellangios]

Yes, literally no American kid who isn't a GBBO addict (which wasn't a thing when this was made) or doesn't have a historic-baking minded or anglophile parent is going to think "pudding" is anything other than a cold, well, pudding...goopy sweet stuff made from powder pudding mix and chilled in the fridge, or that came out of a plastic pudding cup from a grocery store. Wouldn't call it a custard or know what that meant, either. "Boiled pudding" or calling all dessert "pudding" are completely alien.

[@toomanymonkeys21]

@@Eet_Miacan’t speak for the whole country, but in Louisiana we baked bread puddings, they were never boiled. It’s not a custard but contains all the custardy ingredients.

[@lilmelvin11]

I'd forgotten how great Michael Caine was in this role! In one of his books he mentioned how much fun he had being involved with this movie, and the respect he had for the Henson crew....Thank you so much for doing this!

[@speakingwithoutnet]

In the original version of the Muppets, they have a really nice song from Bell, it shows them having fun, going to the park, dancing, rowing, etc. Then it goes to the present where things aren't as nice. No one knows why Disney removed that song, but it's almost impossible to find now. It spoils that part of the movie, leaving you going "What happened???"

[@Mopman43]

Huh, I've seen the version of the film with 'When Love is Gone' (it's on Disney+ now), but I don't recall any depiction of more cheerful times of her and Scrooge.

[@KairuHakubi]

It's actually kind of nice knowing Dickens had the same foibles a lot of writers do, where when you're releasing something piece by piece (as novels were done at the time), you might mess up some of the continuity and not be able to go back and change it. But also, time being messed with kind of helps with the final wonderful surprise he has at it still being Christmas. He thought he'd gone on and on well into Kwanzaa without getting to make any changes in his life and would have to wait for the next Christmas to really show it.

[@Maichen13]

I love how much detail the costumers put into the clothes the muppets wear. How wild is it that they put characters like Rizzo the rat and Gonzo into period appropriate outfits?

[@sarahr8311]

I was watching a costumer review the clothes and she pointed out that, based on the way the clothes bunch and move on the puppets, she's pretty sure they're even wearing the right UNDERWEAR!

[@cabrielleholden]

Obviously it's as accurate as possible because it was narrated by Charles Dickens himself! And his rat friend helped a little too. 😊

[@cenaentiffanys]

Loved this comment ❤️❤️❤️

[@frankweskamp4981]

Little known fact, Salacious Crumb was actually based on Dicken's rat partner

[@imzadi83fanvids7]

There is an animated Rankin Bass adaptation that has a humbug (a bug named B.A.H. Humbug) as a narrator. Fozzy's Mom (yes, it's his mother) was introduced in a Muppet Christmas special made in I think the 80s but could be 90s where the whole Muppet gang surprise Fozzy's Mom by showing up on Christmas Eve. It's a good special if you like the Muppets, though sadly non on Disney+. I was fortunate my Dad taped a lot of specials like that back in the day. This is really cool. I hope for future Christmases you do this with other versions.

[@Willothemask]

As someone who's dad used to read the book to us as kids, I alwqys loved hearing the real quotes from the book in the movie. I was always impressed how many real lines they included, especually so many funny ones. The book has a surprising ammount of humour that, as this movie proves, can still work with a modern audience.

[@lbb5106]

I’ve always loved this movie for the snippets of actual Dickens peppered throughout. For lines like “As solitary as an oyster” is why we still hold his writing in such high regard. No one could describe a character that perfectly.

[@Brasswatchman]

And yet oysters aren't solitary. They tend to clump together in oyster reefs. Yet it still works somehow? 😆

[@GavinBisesi]

@@Brasswatchman I always took it to be talking about how it's alone in its shell

[@Brasswatchman]

@@GavinBisesi Ah. Kind of like a Dalek. That would make sense.

[@robertgronewold3326]

The costume department of this film went HARD with the historically accuracy of the wardrobe for this film. Way more than they needed to.

[@nathangonzalez9710]

About Bobs scarf. They call it a comforter, which in America means big blanket. So I pictured him just bundled up in a big blanket to stay warm, to poor to even own a coat. Thank you for clearing that up.

[@raptormaster666]

I can imagine that Fozzie would go without shoes so he can be Bear-footed. ;) I love this movie, it's fun to learn what they got right and what they adapted.

[@Brasswatchman]

32:52 Can we just mention that Caine's acting here is immaculate? The way he makes you feel the regrets of a broken old man? Or maybe that's just a little too close to home for me right now.

[@InstantCrazy1]

We do not have Christmas pudding in America. In fact I have had several conversations having to explain what a pudding is, even though I myself have never had one, but most Americans are only familiar with the custard-like dessert pudding. Then to further confuse us Americans I have to add in that pudding is sometimes used as a name for dessert and not just the dish.

[@Spearca]

They use "tea" to refer to entire meals!

[@shellnet411]

I think Michael Caine, plays the best Scrooge ever I think the characters that personalities come through as someone who watched the Muppets growing up even before they were quite as child friendly example Muppets take Manhattan. It was for a little older kids. There was a lot of innuendo I always loved it. It was so sweet and everyone did such a great job.

[@melaniesmith1313]

I grew up with other Christmas Carol adaptations as well. Read the book more rimes than I can count. I even put on and directed a play of it when I was in primary school. Saw this for the first time when I was in my thirties. Yes, it is, by far, my favorite. I love singing frogs and Michael Caine as Scrooge. Happy Christmas to you and yours.

[@the_aberration7398]

I really appreciate that J. Draper called her patrons “Second fathers to Tiny Tim.” That one got me.

[@clownfromclowntown]

I can’t reiterate this enough that as an American who was once a child, yes, pudding really would’ve COMPLETELY thrown me off. Literally nowhere in American is ‘pudding’ used to refer to the UK version, pudding here only means a custard basically, and pudding cups where especially popular amongst kids, they’re basically just soft custardy, chilled dessert that you’d get in your school lunch. That context of pudding is pretty much all an American child would be exposed to, so boiling pudding is the equivalent of like, boiling ice cream. It would’ve been super confusing.

[@sarahj5161]

....I mean, it's a liquid so I def imagined dropping people into a cauldron of like,, Jello brand chocolate pudding.....

[@beexcellenttoeachother1763]

I came across this video on my suggested page and I'm so glad it did. It's such a good video. I have been so fond of The Muppet's Christmas Carol (without fail I always end up crying at the part with Tiny Tim) to the point of being a little biased towards it over some of the other versions for a really long time but I never really thought to put it side by side to the original. Thank you for your super thorough breakdown. You've really made me appreciate the story and the film that little bit more.

[@Arrowdodger]

I think the reason for changing "nothing wonderful" to "nothing wondrous" is because "wonderful" is a word that is rarely used in its original context nowadays, and is usually just used as a synonym for exemplary, etc, just that something is very good, and not typically something that inspires wonder, whereas wondrous is a little closer to how it was originally used, even if it, too, sometimes is used to just mean something is good.

[@NonFatMead]

I'm here for the headwear. Your sartorial sense is on par with Miss Piggy's. And yes, that is obviously a compliment.

[@douglasboyle6544]

It was an absolute pleasure spending an hour with you talking about all of this! As an American, I would like to apologize for the "Pudding Erasure". Yes the vast majority of people here (especially children) would not have understood references to pudding, in our vernacular, it refers to a very specific type of dessert and would have made no sense in the context.

[@JR-zi9vj]

Pudding cups essily beat real pudding fr fr. USA USA USA USA!!!

[@urbanpoodle]

As a kid singing We Wish You a Merry Christmas the line about figgy pudding raised some questions, promptly (& correctly) answered by my dad. It never occurred to me until years later that this was a gap in *American* knowledge. I just figured it was something that kids didn't know but adults did. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@LegendStormcrow]

I don't believe I've ever seen a British pudding in person, and would have to look up how to make figgy pudding. In my estament, they likely went extinct in the mid 1800's this side of the Ocean.

[@shannonsenzig1676]

I teach that song to my students every year and it wasn't until fairly recently that I heard one of the kids singing by himself and he was singing "Now bring us some friggin' puddin'!" I had to go back and reteach and now I always wonder how many years worth of kids learned to sing it like that! @@urbanpoodle

[@lorikeetrainwing]

Agreed. I'm an adult, have spent several months in a country where pudding does not mean what it does in America, and my understanding of everyone-else-pudding is still only "I think it's sort of like a cake, except when it isn't." I was very confused when I was younger and made a pudding recipe from an older cookbook and the result in no way resembled pudding.

[@Zelmel]

I grew up with this film, as an American, and I still love it. We watched it alongside the George C Scott 1984 version mostly. Your criticisms are, of course, very valid, and I honestly didn't realize just how good the adaptation was from both the text and the costuming, so this was a joy to watch!

[@MsSilvain]

This is a fantastic video! Thank you for looking into it historically, literature accuracy-wise and just brining a lot of Christmas spirit into it 🤗🤗❤️❤️

[@Ericshadowblade]

One thing i love about michael caines decision to play as if the muppets were people is that it opens an avenue for deeply anaylising how scrooge see people around him. He sees those that work for him as rats and frogs and the women as sows mainwhile those he does see as human are his family and those who are clearly upper class

[@AndrewJohnson-oy8oj]

Wow 🤯 You just changed my entire perception of the movie.

[@adamsmall5598]

An interesting take, but I wonder if it doesn't interpret into Scrooge's character an elitism that isn't really expressed from him in the book. He is alone, miserly, and miserable, but as far as I know he has never been depicted as classist or elitist or the like.

[@Ericshadowblade]

@adamsmall5598 potentialy. Im not sure how well the human as upper class holds as i havent done a frame by frame analysis of the crowd to see but there is a definetly theme with how scrooges family all being human in his eyes as well as his fiance

[@adamsmall5598]

@@Ericshadowblade Fair.

[@GodOfBrevity]

I don’t know who said this first, but the best thing about Christmas Carol and Muppet Treasure island is that Michael Caine treated the muppets as if they were actors and Tim Curry treated himself like a Muppet.

[@seanflora397]

I didn't see the Muppet Christmas Carol until I was 52 (about four years ago). And I think it IS one of the best adaptations! I don't have nostalgia for it. I just think it is tremendously well-done. Michael Caine plays the role of Scrooge perfectly!

[@Painterly_Collage]

Same here! I know that many people consider the Alistair Sim version to be "the classic", but that's only because it was formative for us, not because the adaptation was excellent. I don't think anyone else can hold a candle to Michael Caine's interpretation of Scrooge.

[@letzigstudio]

I so appreciate, Mz. Drapers work! This was a fascinating critique with rich perspective. Thank you, from across the pond! Happy Holidays!

[@matthewmitchell3457]

I do believe I burst out laughing last time I watched the movie and heard Michael Caine deliver the line about the rubber chicken factory. Up until this point he's played the character so straight and serious as if it's a normal movie adaptation, and so far he's been able to mostly pretend he's in a normal Victorian London not ridden with Muppets, but now he's forced to directly confront the fact that he used to work for Fozzie the Bear, who, basically representing the heart and soul of the Muppets, can't help but bring a hefty dose of Muppet culture to his industry.

[@theadaptationstationmaster]

There's a fun little detail from the book this video doesn't mention. (That's not a knock on this video; it's quite long enough as it is.) After he sees Marley's face in the knocker, Scrooge "did pause, with a moment’s irresolution, before he shut the door; and he did look cautiously behind it first, as if he half expected to be terrified with the sight of Marley’s pigtail sticking out into the hall." Michael Caine's Scrooge does this and Gonzo tells Rizzo they need to run inside before he shuts the door, but Rizzo is looking for his jellybeans and Gonzo gets the door slammed in the face. LOL.

[@kurtexists6982]

The Ghost of Christmas Past puppet was originally filmed in a big tank of baby oil to get that slow moving etheral effect. The team found that the baby oil became difficult to work with and clean from the tank and puppet so filmed the remaining scenes with the puppet submerged in water :)

[@jamespuleo3269]

My favorite adaptation of ACC is the animated version directed by Richard Williams from 1971. It ran 25 minutes, was produced by Chuck Jones, and won an Oscar for best animated short in 1972. Scrooge was voiced by Alistair Sims, the star of the 1951 version. And in spite of its brevity, it included S flying thru the air with the ghost of Xmas Present to view the 2 men in the lighthouse, the crew of a ship at sea, and the impoverished family whose menfolk work as miners. No other version I know has these scenes. The pen-and-ink crosshatch style of animation is breathtaking. *A Must-See !!*

[@miguelangelsucrelares5009]

This was a fantastic video. Thank you!

[@maureenc.782]

As an American I had never heard of puddings until I dated a British woman in my 30's. We're very good here at "pudding erasure". Absolutely love your reactions & contents & have a merry Christmas 2023!🎅

[@maryanneslater9675]

I'm not sure why North Americans (I'm Canadian) don't do steamed puddings anymore. Maybe it's because they're a lot of work. Maybe it's because they're made with suet and it's hard to find. I have English grandparents and English in-laws so I have traditional recipes for Christmas pudding and "spotted dick" (do NOT look that up without the modifying words "pudding" and "recipe"). You know a recipe is old when it tells you to grate the nutmegs.

[@LegendStormcrow]

I've never seen one in person, save the bread puddings at a certain restaurant, but those are not boiled.

[@shannonsenzig1676]

I grew up with bread puddings. We always baked them in a water bath, which is guess is similar to boiling? Otherwise, I always think of puddings as Jello puddings, which are the cheapest, saddest dessert imaginable and it would be too sad if all the Cratchits could afford was a jello pudding. @@LegendStormcrow

[@shannonsenzig1676]

I just looked up the recipe for British Christmas pudding. I don't even know where you get dried currents in Missouri and suet??? The crap we put in the bird feeder? That can't be right! Pecan pie it is!@@LegendStormcrow

[@LeafHuntress]

For those unfamiliar with puddings & looking for recipes; do take a butcher's at Mrs Crocombe's over on the English Heritage channel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYmyfKCXetGtp9k

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

Yes, American Children would have been VERY confused by the word pudding. When I heard it as a kid in British media, I always pictured what Americans mean by pudding. I wondered why they liked pudding so much.

[@jac-attack]

Tbh banana pudding is delicious but I don't think they have that in the UK.

[@dawnlizreads]

We have banana Angel Delight - I think. Best not to ask what's in it (no natural ingredients probably). But, it's like a US version of pudding

[@plaidpvcpipe3792]

16:37 I feel that maybe they changed it because Gonzo isn't actually "relating" the story. He's merely presenting it, like a chorus in a play.

[@GarethJordan42]

This is the best video I watched on KZbin this Christmas. Thank you for an enjoyable hour!

[@moxiebombshell]

Nicole Rudolph did herself a version of Gonzo's costume on her channel! Apparently the costumes in this are so ridiculously on point.

[@kohakuaiko]

We had the same thought.

[@moxiebombshell]

@@kohakuaiko Nice!! what's crazy is that when I was watching Nicole and other Dress Historian KZbinrs talk about the surprisingly accurate costumes in this, I never stopped to think about how the film came out in 1992 - meaning the costume designers couldn't just pop online and pull up thousands of digitized primary source documents and images to use as inspiration or to verify a style choice; they had to use physical resources they/their costuming company either owned or found in libraries. Don't get me wrong, I know people understood historic dress before the Internet Age. But I think it would have been so much harder for anyone who wasn't a literal expert in specific eras of fashion to create an entire film's-worth of suitable costumes in an era where you're stuck looking at copies of The Delineator on microfiche for inspiration 😅

[@astridafklinteberg298]

I love Nicole’s series on the Gonzo Christmas Carol costume. Her videos are incredibly well researched.

[@moxiebombshell]

@@astridafklinteberg298 agreed 💯%. I swear I want to start making shoes now 😅

[@kristinewalberg2938]

@@moxiebombshell'I built historical costumes back in the 80's. Hours of research and large stacks of library books were involved,

[@me4901]

This is among my favorite versions. Partly because it is more accurate to the text than a puppet version would normally be expected to be

[@Carewolf]

It is more faithful than non-puppet versions would normally be expected to be!

[@georgettefrey1065]

Which is why I use it in my classroom.

[@BostonTerrierLOVE]

Wow, really fun video! Thank you for all the editing that went into this. It definitely makes long form analysis like this video easier and more fun to watch when clips and pictures are included, and where it’s not one where I have to do a watch-a-long. Plus, the contrast with the Patrick Stewart one, and getting to see the actual story text on the screen with the lines being said was awesome! A fun premise for a video when coming from your channel. And what cool additional historical info. I’m real curious about medieval christmases now. P.S. as an american, the christmas pudding would have flown over my child head because I had no reference for it, but could have been included. Likely though it had something to do with the alcohol and/or fire involved for censors or puppet safety.

[@jaydee4697]

Lovely video; thank you so much for sharing!