A Warning On the Future of Music: with Author Ted Gioia | Podcast #1

Ted Gioia is an American music critic and historian. He is author of eleven books, including Music: A Subversive History, The Jazz Standards: A Guide to the Repertoire, The History of Jazz and Delta Blues. He is also a jazz musician and one of the founders of Stanford University's jazz studies program.
Episode links:
Ted's Website: tedgioia.com/
Ted's Twitter: ‪@tedgioia‬
Ted's Substack: The Honest Broker | Ted Gioia | Substack tedgioia.substack.com/
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[@svengordonwilliams5152]

the audience is smart... and underestimated... Joni Mitchell did a radio interview on the CBC in Canada quite a few years ago and I never forgot what she said: "Everybody knows the music business is run by crooks. At least in the old days, the crooks liked music"... What a memorable quote.

[@alexgordonepic]

good one

[@TheNadaladaDOTnet]

Joni was/is a brilliant mind and observer of the "business"

[@woodrowmcfarlane5135]

This is amazing, think of Bob Dylan who is not really a singer, he doesn't do 2minute songs but he made his mark. Pink Floyd!! Can put you in a trance.

[@xaxzander4633]

And the pill if swallowed, is name the crooks.

[@TruePointers]

You know what's great about this interview? Rick didn't interrupt Ted like so many other interviewers do. Only short affirmations that he's listening, and following what Ted is saying. It's like the 10+ minute song of interviews.

[@elderbob100]

I always thought that Larry King was the best interviewer. He would let the guest talk without interruption

[@TonyRichards]

Triple thumbs up for you rinsight & perspective Brit

[@cliffhughes6010]

Rick is the most respectful interviewer I know.

[@illDefine1]

There's no debate or disagreement in the interview. Also, conversations are much more interesting than lectures.

[@sixter4157]

@@elderbob100 one of Larry King's secrets was he didn't do a pre-interview. He wanted the discussions spontaneous. He felt the less he knew, the better the interview. Too often the best bits are in the pre-interview, and when you try to recreate them in the interview they fall flat.

[@ElectricJelly03]

I like Frank Zappas take on making music; "Theres a certain kind of person who likes my music, and I make it for them" (paraphrasing). Effectively, make what you want to make and you'll manifest an audience who appreciates it.

[@alancollinge9136]

I like Lou Reed's take: "One chord, fine. Two chords, your pushing it. Three chords and you're getting into jazz" 🙂

[@damianmalikmusic]

Please have him back on as a guest and talk about more stuff. This is probably my favorite video on the channel now.

[@PeteOliva]

"I've studied this..." "I've looked into this..." The number of times Ted started a point saying this was incredibly refreshing. What an insightful and intellectual conversation. Actual INFORMED thoughts on display here. What a rarity in this world we live in. Thank you for having this talk, guys. Ted, I'm a fan now. And Rick, you're a gift .

[@minmogrovingstrongandhealthy]

If Reddit Quora or Wiki is his study sources which often is the case with a western person then he wasted his life on lies and pointless information since lots of those places have a toxic community and is focused on silencing the truth.

[@PeteOliva]

@@minmogrovingstrongandhealthy Did you even bother to look into him? What he's written? What he's researched? Since I saw this, I have. This is not the situation, here, I can assure you. 🤣 This guy was winning awards for his work before Wikipedia and Reddit were even a thing.

[@minmogrovingstrongandhealthy]

@@PeteOliva Good for him. If he was digging deep then I respect that but have to atm only take your word for it. I don't have time of my life to waste on researching pointless things. I just say that today's 99% of the source for information people use are out of their ass or the platforms I mentioned and many others social media where attention seeking idiots spam whatever they feel like and corporate western scum spam lies to satisfy their consumer driven agendas. Also his rewards and that type of knowledge wont put food on my table, hard work in the natural environment will, so as preserving it, so all that from up above is a hard pass. With that said I can't take seriously anyone anymore and the main point of my comment which expands your 1st comment. Does that make sense? I hope it does. Have a great day.

[@aadityakiran_s]

@@PeteOliva Yet I got an email from him quoting some reddit and twitter feeds posting some edited and faked output from BingAI. No use talking in an echochamber.

[@raginald7mars408]

The Scientific Mind STUDDDIESSSS even earning No Thing Nada Rien S. D. G Sole Dei Gratiae Bach

[@CineMilledUSA]

What an amazing conversation. I would love a part 2 to this! Who is with me?!

[@raginald7mars408]

MIND BOGGGLINGGGGGG!!!!

[@ChristopherFryman]

Would be great

[@percybyssheshelley8573]

Yes, Gioia should be a regular guest here. I'm an A.F. of M. life member who's played Classical at a professional level since 1981 and I couldn't agree more.

[@SHATHECROW]

yup

[@puckuk1984]

this was exactly what I was going to say!

[@DieNarbe]

Dear Rick, I'm a Musician from Germany. This is one of the most interesting Videos I've ever watched and listened to on KZbin in 20 years. Thank you so much, more of this! Great content on your Channel overall , may you get more great Guests and Topics onto your Channel in the Future . Love, Timmy

[@jmikeperkins]

Great interview. As a struggling local singer-songwriter who is out in the trenches, I can tell you there is great new music out there on the local and regional level, but good luck ever hearing any of it because no major supports it and their monopoly power controls what most people hear. If the majors release something new that does not completely suck, I am astounded. Innovation and the best of what is new is coming from local artists who produce their own music, but they are not likely to ever get rewarded for it.

[@termikesmike]

All "Art " ---there's countless artists everywhere but the only known are from 'special' galleries ..... So when are U going to start a real UNION of Artists /musicians - and 'own your own ' website!!! geez --add -- at 45 minutes only Spoty - yet he's listened to 800 albums ( by May 31:31 ) and no mention UPFRONT about Bandcamp ?? etc where does he find all these ' independent labels ' -- get going !

[@rogerpbsmusic]

True and sad. Hoping for a change

[@TigiBorg]

The truth is very simple: once you find your way to impress broader audience, the established record labels may show up, offer you a contract, charge 70 to 90 percent of earnings for their support. But eventually, the gross sum may be large enough for you to compensate all the years of struggle. Meanwhile, do everything you can to become institution by yourself and to build your ground for bargaining against the labels. No unions, no others, nobody except your family will care of you and your eventual rise and success.

[@benink5690]

The o ly thing they're actually talking about is $$$$ and you know it

[@masterchikin]

@@TigiBorg In many ways, yes you are correct. However, how many bands started off good and ended up terrible once they got a major record deal and had to start doing as they were told? 🤷‍♂️

[@stephenusery652]

I interviewed Ted a few years ago for his book about the Delta blues. Beyond being intelligent and talented, he was the most well-spoken author whom I've ever interviewed.

[@duncaninglis3806]

Just when you might think that Rick Beato doesn't have anything left to pull out of his extremely deep pockets, he reaches a little further and pulls this out. A fascinating interview. You, sir, are for many of us the most important commentator on/professor of all things music. Thank you!

[@kellybennett8011]

I agree. Thank you for your dedication Rick.

[@firefighterps2]

Yes!

[@amirjubran1845]

This to me is the content that makes this channel. The shorts and the unscripted videos are what lose my interest.

[@marknovak6498]

I remember back in 1975 a year when there were 35 #1 hits on the billboard hot 100. That was a healthy, diverse year in music.

[@keep_walking_on_grass]

The 70is is the best decade of the music business. All genres. Funk, Rock, Pop soul, Jazz, jazz Rock.

[@samferrer]

I want more of this guy ... please bring him back ...

[@zangsax]

This man has a beautiful synthesis of intellect and heart

[@jeffrey.a.hanson]

The concept of, “If it’s interesting to me, it’ll be interesting to you.” It’s so simple, yet psychologically profound.

[@Geopholus]

It seems to work for Rick everytime,... Ted is equally interesting.

[@alrobertson1432]

Rick, this comment deserves it's own thread. You are a very talented interviewer. I've seen it happen, far too often, that a KZbinr gets a power guest on, and then crumbles under the load. You did a fabulous job of steering this interview while maintaining a very light grasp on the wheel. Kudos!!

[@harriraudaskoski1311]

Thank you Rick for bringing up the magic in our musical culture! Thank you Sir!

[@thecoldmage_]

This video is the most intellectually stimulating and informative hour of content I've watched in goodness knows how long. I have never heard these topics related to music framed in such a brilliant and well communicated manner. Anyone with any level of influence in the industry needs to hear what Ted is saying and really pay attention to it.

[@jasonjon]

what’s your perspective on records being an old form of tech in regards to the masses flocking to “vintage” in all forms: lofi instagram pics, low powered vw buses, vhs tape collections, NES/flappy bird… most forms of modern tech have extremely popular “vintage” niches, and it even extends beyond tech to items like shoes and jerseys. Is it possible musicians haven’t provided enough “vintage” offerings to be consumed?

[@alejmora]

I have gone through only on the first half, but I felt that I recovered a couple of IQ points.

[@l-wook]

@@jasonjon I think all this nostalgia hunting comes from over saturated markets, people get disenfranchised and look for simpler more tangible things. There’s also just aging demographics, just like how boomers had all the cash 20yrs ago now Gen X has cash and we seek out things that make us feel young haha

[@salif130]

Indeed

[@brianblackwood3120]

Totally agree. As an independent artist I am taking notes 📝

[@douglesw]

I believe we lost an important "arm" of music when the merchandising was reduced to cassettes, CDs and then NOTHING. I am referring to the Album and not for the vinyl enclosed but for the wonderfullness of the album artwork, from simple headshots and group shots to the complexity of SPLHCB and graphics that offered your individual interpretation. The hours getting lost in those images, WHILE the music PLAYED were priceless.

[@JBfromFL]

Good point.

[@shawnsummers2580]

I totally agree not to mention you have something physical to own instead of a measly download.

[@eddiepigg5333]

If I could get the CD with album sized artwork and lyric sheets, I’d pay extra! Of course I would also need the CD covers with the art and lyrics, too!

[@lamper2]

You can, if you want, get way more artwork, group photos bios etc. online than you ever could in the LP era plus you can listen to a lossless sound and even email your music to any friend worldwide FREE!

[@AndreCholmondeley]

@@lamper2 exactly correct It’s almost like…… you lose one thing and gain another, like most advancements in technology. Hey, if people are missing the physical, fine. Personally, I have over 12,000 CDs-- so no one can say I haven’t spent the money to support the industry. Whether the artist share of money spent was better than today, is another debate But- to quickly look at credits on a dozen albums if I’m doing some jumping around, certainly is faster online, and for soooooo many albums there wasn’t that much on the sleeve, and once I’ve read it, now I’m fighting the storage wars…. YMMV, but listing to hours of radio, you don’t see credits either, yet for me personally that was one of the most valuable and educational inputs ever Radio- free, wireless monetized streaming. For decades. No meta data. No artwork or credits. Data easily downloaded to reel to reel, then cassette, DAT, minidisc, and now hard drive, if you like. Globally available with no subscription for a century or so and counting (subscription model in U.K. Etc)

[@TheRadicallyHip]

As a music therapist of 25 plus years I find talks like these so educational. Another point I have noticed in regards to running groups with people is that the common song is leaving us. When you think communities knew the same music for thousands and thousands of years and now individuals have access to such a variety of music from around the world, it's makes it challenging to share music as a group.

[@jensmogensen]

What a fantastic conversation between you and Ted Gioia Rick. Mindblowing. I will have to watch it again. Thank you so much.

[@houseoflatin]

when he said, an environment that doesn't allow creators to take chances, that really sums it up. and ultimately that ends creating a corrupt culture, art taking the second seat. great interview

[@larryhall2805]

I'm kind of a gadfly on KZbin because iv been bitching about unimaginative bass lines long before KZbin came about. My peeve is a microcosm of that point.

[@frankmarsh1159]

Due to decades of consolidation we are down to the big three record companies (Sony, Warner and Universal) which control 80 percent of the market. Add to that the 1996 Telecommunications Act which allowed all the big media companies to buy up all the radio stations. Before 1996 you could only own 20 FM stations. iheart radio and Cumulous now own about 2000 stations. Back in the day most radio stations were independently owned and programed and they worked with independent reginal record promoters. Today's corporate radio is pretty much top down structured and programed from central headquarters using flawed listener data surveys. Back in the day smaller sized companies could sign artists that they believed in artistically and nurture their careers over time. They could work with regional program directors and they could compete and get exposure. The corporate music business system today is pretty much a closed corporate system (at least in the larger markets) and it's much more focused on quick profits and less about artistry...

[@USAMehdi]

@@frankmarsh1159 Thank you! Well said. I think there's a monopoly going on. Many old favorite radio stations have either disappeared or changed style. Now the question is Is this monopoly coming to the Internet? Is it already in place?

[@frankmarsh1159]

@@USAMehdi There is a scene in the movie Coal Miners Daughter where Loretta Lynn and her husband drive around looking for radio towers. They stop at radio stations and walk in and ask the DJ to play their record. They mentioned on the Ken Burns Country Music documentary how that could never happen in today's corporate radio system. Back in the day radio was regional and most stations were independently owned and operated. People could call in and ask the DJ to play a record. The first time the Beatles were ever played on the radio in America was when a fourteen year old girl called a radio station in Washington DC and asked them to play the Beatles and they did it. No corporate manager had to approve of the decision. Tom Petty had a song called the Last DJ who plays what he wants to play.

[@stoneysdead689]

He didn't say that- he said it was the decision makers, the ppl deciding who gets played and who doesn't- the ppl who make the top song lists and so forth- that were afraid to take any chances- not the creators. He specifically said the creators are creating great stuff- and he's right- good music is out there. But you have to proactively seek it out- the powers that be aren't going to drop it in your lap like they used to because that no longer fits their business model. Their model is 1. Push whatever artists and songs they've been paid to promote and 2. Make ppl engage with the music enough to subscribe, but not enough to consume very much music- once they subscribe Spotify is better off if they never listen to even one song and just keep paying that subscription.

[@crazypomp927]

14:38 "People don't have the attention span for anything longer" The TV industry largely disproves this. Some of the most popular and beloved shows of the last 15 years have been complicated, artistic masterpieces that ppl will happily spend hours upon hours binging and rewatching over and over. This shows that people are willing to engage with complex art and spend large amounts of time with it, but the people in charge of major labels refuse to learn anything from other forms of entertainment that are currently kicking music's butt. Overly compressed mastering is also an issue because everything sounding louder reduces the emotional impact of the parts of songs that are supposed to be more exciting so ppl don't feel as connected to the music even when it is well written and skillfully performed.

[@compfox]

That observation I made myself some time ago. Everything in the entertainment business became awfully mediocre. Except movies and (some) tv series. Some are really mind challenging.

[@mtc5]

Attention span and time spent aren't the same thing. Yes, one spends hours binging that show, but the show is in form of episodes that are way shorter than a movie, and each episode is delivered in fast sequence of events, quick camera cuts one after the other. Nickelodeon for adults. It is possible (and actually preferred) to engage people for long times, by exploiting (and further shortening) their attention span.

[@IcidLink]

@@compfox it also depends on the Movie most mainstream Hollywood movies are not great and you notice they cater to the low attention Spann audience having just short scenes with dialogues and/or let the characters have their easy to understand dialogues or constants qibs / jokes death pool style right in the action scenes most mainstream Hollywood movies don’t have long scenes without Action. When you compare this with older Hollywood movies especially from the 40/50/60 ara where they had long scenes with people just having a conversation its night and Day. It’s a bit ironic I watch a lot of Anime and most Animes beside the in the vain of DBZ have more and longer scenes where characters just talk then modern Life Action Hollywood Movies. I stopped watching Hollywood movies when I watch something it’s mostly Anime and sometimes K-dramas

[@IcidLink]

@@mtc5 yes I believe the same but it’s not just series most mainstream movies rarely have longer scenes where characters just talk anymore. There have to be constant action otherwise the producers think people loose interest and look down at their phones again. It’s funny nowadays most Anime got more and longer dialogues

[@musictheoryforeveryone7938]

One main problem with most people is that they are visually oriented, in that their ears are not as well developed as their eyes. As a teacher of music, it is more difficult to always stay in the sphere of sounds without reverting back to the visual. Even printed music becomes a necessity for musicians. The look of instruments is even a visually pleasing experience to children because they are not the things of every day life. Maybe I oversimplified this problem or I am totally off base. But it is true music has become the servant for the drama in movies, TV shows, media in general, which all started with Opera in 1600 and of course Greek Dramas.

[@kentrichardson9070]

Great interview. I’m proud of my record collection and can still listen to my first albums bought in the 60’s. My daughter 20 ,is also buying albums and cds and will inherit mine. Years ago when my nephew said he pays for a Spotify subscription I said “ but you’ll never own anything and one day they’ll just take it away” This happened to me with Amazon. Woke up one day and 3 years of my playlists and downloads gone. No recourse. Just greed from the largest retailer in the world. Same with Netflix and Amazon video,less and worse content double the price.

[@chrisrutledge9330]

A generation may wake up and realize that they have an access to film or music that is allowed solely at the whim of a corporation. My kids are mystified that I still invest in a CD collection when it is all supposedly free on line. Again, Joni Mitchell - It always seems to be that you don't know what you got till its gone.

[@aieahi1]

The World Economic Forum’s slogan is “You’ll own nothing and be happy”. If your social credit score is too low, you won’t be able to rent the song you want to listen to. Same will apply to movies, video games, etc.

[@maildebausaldo]

How come nobody talks about the elephant in the room?: ABUNDANCE OF CHOICE. The problem are not the capitalist pigs at Spotify or a misalignment in the interests of the music supply chain. The problem is that, before, we used to have to put a lot of effort to listen to a single song let alone a full album or explore a genre. Now everything is a click of our fingers away. We could spend the rest of our living minutes listening to new music by paying a 10 bucks subscription and not even getting up from our chair. It's sooo easy to get music that we don't even bother to appreciate it because as humans we tend to appreciate way more what's way more difficult to get. This is why we climb mountains useless as that might seem to the universe. We don't need Spotify to disappear or vinyl to comeback. We need to pick and choose how are we gonna use our listening time without being easily distracted by an abundance of choice. It's not Spotify o Universal...it's us!

[@nick-dq1hh]

And THIS is why there’s more money in live music than anyone can believe. People don’t get as much thrilling live music anymore, and people waste their time trying to make it in streaming services. The money is in the live venues for those with something interesting to express.

[@jamieearl688]

“Art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time.” - Jean-Michel Basquiat

[@chrisdick2305]

Wonderful quote!! Thank you.

[@genevievebeals1131]

Wow. That’s very beautiful, I’ve never heard that quote before.

[@charlesnelson5187]

Basquiat was certainly a 'decorator'. lol

[@dctbass]

Oh man, love that! That has been purloined! 😁

[@fischerking86]

Genius

[@JJJRRRJJJ]

This is why classical music changed my life. Finally a piece of music that can keep me fully engrossed for 20, 30, 40… 80 minutes straight. It’s an entirely different experience than listening to a really good song for 3 or 4 minutes.

[@adaptercrash]

The klingons say 36 minutes max

[@NICUofficial]

the first time I really actively LISTENED to a Beethoven symphony permanently changed my life forever that was 17 years ago for me and life has never been the same since that day could not agree with you more my friend

[@adaptercrash]

@@NICUofficial not that great and they say its the best

[@pennyparkin]

Try Coltrane, or Miles

[@evieblue959]

That’s how I felt the first time I listened to Ravel’s Bolero. It’s hypnotizing.

[@lesflynn4455]

What a brilliant interview. I'm not even a musician, just a long time fan of music who was a teenager in the late 80s. I found this discussion fascinating.

[@Jayreganmusic]

What I love most about this intelligent conversation is that they talk and they listen to each other without talking over top of each other like most interviewers and interviewees do these days, so refreshing.

[@Cynsham]

This is the single most erudite, intellectually stimulating, and frankly the absolute best podcast I’ve ever seen or listened to in my whole life. I cannot praise this sort of dialogue enough.

[@StallionStudios1234]

I am still in favour of big corps and government controlling music. The world is becoming too chaotic. We are in a climate emergency. There are racists, bigots, transphobics and discrimination is everywhere. We need to stop the population from acting so crazy and listen more to the big governments and corporations to keep them under control as they clearly can't control themselves. I am in favour of censorship. The population are sheep and they need a Shepard. Leaders like Trudeau are the perfect leader to lead everyone into the light.

[@raginald7mars408]

MIND BOGGGLINGGG!!!!!

[@TomKaszuba]

Agree.

[@all.the.same.iProductions]

It wasn’t life changing enough for me. Sorry.

[@all1soul]

Very well put.

[@JoeLackey]

This needs to be required listening in every music program on the planet.

[@DavidGainesVeganComposer]

HELLO NORTHWESTERN! HELLO PEABODY CONSERVATORY! :)

[@raginald7mars408]

found it by Sheer Acci Denttt!

[@kentmatsui2724]

I wonder if the commercial success of a group like Steely Dan proves that large audiences can appreciate longer more complex writing and productions of music.

[@hjvarfjell]

It's amazing to listen to his analysis of Spotify, and what he thought was going to happen. Knowing what happened just about a half year later. With Spotify stopping payments to small artists. Which means that the majority of royalty payments are now going to the power players in the industry. He was pretty spot on.

[@electricbonfire7014]

The big take away from this excellent interview is Rick and Ted should start a record label! You could crowd fund the start up cost from this community. Bach Records

[@alexisgs8800]

F yeah!! And then they could develop the SuperVinyl! I'm giving money if they do!

[@charlescostarella]

..and another streaming platform. Google's motto "Do no evil"? More like "Do only evil" these days.

[@FurtiveSkeptical]

They do it for coffee (allegedly) Why not fair trade Music?

[@crystalplanet09]

Bachatheny records.. pays homage to both favs of Rick

[@alexisgs8800]

​@@TheDredConspiracy loll can't be worse than Sony

[@christianpister2227]

regarding the 3 minute songs: Billy Joel wrote already in 1974: "I am the entertainer I come to do my show You heard my latest record It's been on the radio Ah, it took me years to write it They were the best years of my life It was a beautiful song but it ran too long If you're gonna have a hit you gotta make it fit So they cut it down to 3:05"

[@BillPeschel]

My thought, too.

[@Einnor084]

@@goodun2974 Dat organ solo, got me n2 The Doors!

[@freethinker79]

The connection between shamanism, altered states, and music in general, is absolutely fascinating. Never thought about the length of songs, but in relation to altering brain waves and bringing about shifts in consciousness, it makes total sense.

[@flintlong2937]

I'm only as far as the significance of 1600, but I'm totally in love with this interview. I've read The History of Jazz, but I had never heard Ted Gioia in an interview, and of course I'm a fan of Rick's. But this is just amazing! Wonderful! I'm painting a bedroom as I listen an it's putting me in a "trance." Haha! No, seriously - it is interviews like this, and people like Rick and Ted that make my life worth living. I was brought up on everything from Bach to Louis Prima, to the Olympics to the Delta Rhythm Boys. I have devoted my life to playing piano, all genres (although I'm known on KZbin for Boogie Woogie) but I play classical and Scott Joplin, and pop and swingin' jazz too, and I have also devoted my life to listening to music, reading about it and watching KZbin videos that are so old and cool, and previously obscure. Thank God for folks like Rick and Ted!

[@Barb.....]

Speaking of attention span, I thought there is no way I'm watching an interview that is this long. I thorougly enjoyed it in its entirety. Ted is incredible intelligent and interesting. Great interview, Rick.

[@eclexian]

What I love most about Rick’s interviews is that he knows how to set them moving in a direction, and then let the patter be about the guest, not about *himself*! Too many interviewers seem most concerned that you’ll be impressed with how smart *they* are. I find that nauseating, and Rick has none of that. Go Rick!

[@scubashooter]

Amen!

[@MollyT119]

Back in the 70s, Billy Joel recorded a song called The Entertainer (which he still plays live). A lot of the song is still incredibly relevant, but when you were talking about the song length, it reminded me of Billy's line: "If you're gonna have a hit you gotta make it fit, so they cut it down to 3:05." This is a song from 1974, and we're in 2023, and it's incredible how true the message of it still is.

[@freddyray6805]

This was an absolutely beautiful conversation..immense experience and humility.

[@guitarsword1]

Have Ted on again. People, musicians, executives need to hear what this man has to say about the music industry. Great interview Rick, as usual.

[@FreakingOutWithBillyHume]

Yes, again please!

[@jbmw16]

Executives don't want to since it implies to earn less profits. People and musicians are the ones who can make this change.

[@davidsteinberg8024]

Rick is such a music purist even his furniture is made out of speaker cabinets. Gotta love it.

[@guillermoriverosalvarez6023]

Rick, it would be really amazing having the enlightening Ted Gioia on a regular basis to talk about music or culture on your channel. What a great conversation! Congrats! I'm a big fan of both!

[@mandyharewood886]

I'm about to play Chicago's 25 or 6 to 4 for another hour. Sometimes it's the Rolling Stones' Gimme Shelter. Sometimes it's Earth Wind & Fire's Fantasy. Last week it was Seal's Kiss from a Rose. A few weeks back it was Journey's Don't Stop Believing. Hey Jude was a few months ago. Over and over and over and over. Never once! Never! It's true about the trance. Music kept me sane throughout a difficult childhood in a dysfunctional family. It was an escape. A refuge. It took me away for just enough time to recover from my mother's unsettling presence and be ready for her return from work.

[@Guitargate]

LOVE that you're doing a podcast Rick! Extra points for using your speaker cabs as legs for the table :)

[@DavidKirtley]

They really are not there. They are green screened. :)

[@kurtunger8074]

Right On!!! Good catch!

[@RickBeato]

Haha!! I love that people noticed :) Ted liked it too lol.

[@mattw.6726]

I caught that, too! I went down to the comments to mention it and it was included in the first comment. 🤣

[@pcole11]

Call me pedantic, but I kept getting bothered that the top wasn't centered.

[@drc97086]

Yes, let musicians produce whatever they care to. And, let us have it available to us. Most of all, let musicians be truly compensated for their magic. We seem to take their work for granted, since music is everywhere.

[@CarolH2O]

Well said...

[@peterh1353]

Musicians have always been poorly paid. Niccolò Paganini's best paid gig was playing infront of a jail so they could break out a prisoner.

[@onthegroundsoundotgs5143]

Musicians can already do everything themselves, except for: Promotion. Well they can try to play the IG and Tik Tok game, but realistically that is only going to work for very few. How to solve this? By empowering fans to support artists and rewarding them for it. It is actually pretty simple and already being done.

[@peterh1353]

It is actually true of many "things that seem to be fun" professions. Some ad agencies pay their mail room staff more than their creatives.

[@vaspers]

Mozart was treated like dirt by the aristocracy. He ate with the kitchen help. He was kept waiting for hours in cold hallways, before the nobles were ready to be distracted and amused by the freakish child prodigy. They trotted Amadeus out to play piano, then gave him a clunky gold watch, instead of cash, and hurried him out of the castle, through the servants portal, not wishing to be tainted by such lowlife. will . i . am said that if you want to make money in music, be a credit card company, or run your own festivals. Music has never been valued much. It was not even "listened to" as a recreational activity until recently in human history! Music was just a peripheral behavior, an accompaniment of a more esteemed civil performance or cult act, an aspect of a public ceremony or secret ritual, not an art worthwhile on its own, or an enjoyable leisure pursuit in itself, separate from the special events.

[@1bullsprig]

It has already been said, but man, that Ted is so intelligent and interesting to listen to. This interview was the best thing I've heard in a while. Rick, your content is just amazing. Thank you, and thank you, Ted Gioia.

[@tromatrom]

There are different moments is life where you have different attention spans. Sometimes you're in your car and you want a fast 3-minute song, and sometimes you're in your room in the evening and you want a full album to listen to. It's not one or the other, it's both we need.

[@houseofmars4319]

If this interview was a book, it would be underlined, highlighted, heavily annotated in the margins and placed on the top shelf. Awesome, thank you Rick!

[@SPCEMN3]

That's great but I would point out that this 'book' wouldn't have a single footnote or evidence, period. The most salient line of this interview was "I can't prove it, but...." 31:21. So maybe we should take this interview with a huge grain of salt and realize that it's an old timer shaking his fist at the clouds. Not that there's anything wrong with that, that can even be entertaining.

[@houseofmars4319]

@@SPCEMN3 I take your point, but I didn't get the "old man yells at clouds" vibe at all. There are plenty of people who gripe about the music industry, and they usually have their specific ax to grind. I though he was relatively dispassionate and even offered some hope! But yes, it's his opinion, but a fairly learned opinion.

[@HaleysTusk]

In some ways you can say that love of longer form music was the reason so many albums from the 70'a-90's endure today, we fell in love w/ the *albums* as well as the songs in them. I remember when my friends and I would have album listening party's, Pink Floyd's Dark Side/The Wall, Fleetwood Mac's Rumours, Queen's A Night at the Opera, Zeppelin's discography, the Beatles Rubber Soul, Sgt Peppers, Abbey Road etc, all these artists carefully chose the songs included and which side of the album they played on. The last song on side one would continue onto side two.... THIS is one of the biggest shames of the state of music today, the loss of the "Album Experience" when you would hear that whirr click and rush to your record player to flip to side two....great memories :)

[@richarddoan9172]

It was so much fun, too, to think about, what are the greatest album sides?

[@HaleysTusk]

@@richarddoan9172 I am CONSTANTLY requesting for the artist I follow for her and her family (HUGE Beatles fans, as a family they often perform Beatles songs including "Oh Darling") that some day, they might perform Abbey Road's Side 2 (She sang "Because" acapella in high school)... IMO if someone were to ask me my all time favorite Side 2, Abbey Road's wins for me every time :) (Her Dad said he'd be honored, but it's a bit daunting to take on one of the all time great album sides)

[@HaleysTusk]

@@goodun2974 Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, an amazing album experience album :)

[@JohnLnyc]

I get the “album experience” as rewarding as it is, the fact is, most people, including avid music lovers, abandoned it as soon as the ability to cherry pick their favorite songs became widely available. The mix tape. Many record albums contained “filler” In fact, aside from thematic pieces like “Dark Side” etc, few were actually listening to entire records in one sitting. My point is simply that the fog of nostalgia has obscured the fact that fewer albums were worth listening to all the way through than we think. So cassettes, mix tapes and the ability to create personal play lists eventually set the stage for streaming. Today Gioia’s “super record” exists in systems like Qubuz, Tidal and Roon etc. with hand held music players with incredibly high quality sound..Astell and Kern et al that can both store and stream music and “hold” thousands of songs played through headphones and in ear monitors rivaling the best large speakers. In fact a system like Roon can organize massive (really limitless) libraries and provide far more information than any Record Album Sleeve. Surprised Rick is seemingly not aware…he must be!

[@HaleysTusk]

​@@JohnLnyc "mix tapes" existed back then as well, they're called cassette tapes, that didn't stop me from enjoying the "album experience" from that first unsealing of the album, to that fresh vinyl smell, to that first time you dropped the needle. "The album experience" also involved appreciating the artist's thinking about the ordering and placement of their songs on the album, Which song introduced side 2 of an album, how one song's effect/emotions could lead into the next, something the Beatles, Zeppelin and Floyd were masters at. You lose the synergy one song had to the next, or the one before when you compare an album to a 'mix tape' you put together. "Mix Tapes" don't come w/ those visceral, physical experiences. I enjoyed that vinyl experience for decades. I still buy vinyl from my favorite artist if they're available. They are not comparable experiences IMO

[@goncalopcoutinho]

Very good interview. No interruptions, good conversation, very interesting topics. Great content as always Rick

[@alexiacerwinskipierce8114]

I just love that. "I wrote three thousand words, and no one could stop me!" He looks so happy 😊 lol

[@lucindalangford27]

I immediately was reminded of how excited I was in 1967 when the "long version" of the Doors "Light My Fire" was played on the radio. It was 7 minutes long. It was an immediate disappointment when the "short version" was played. It was cut to only be just under 3 minutes. This has been one of the GREAT conversations you have had.

[@Alvis44]

The organ solo is killerrr

[@wlodell]

Yes, my response was the same!

[@nickbrooks3054]

I think Light My Fire is one of the worst songs ever written or performed, with the exception of Stairway To Heaven. You have my sympathy.

[@divisionofthenorth1]

For me it was the 10min version of "when the music is over"

[@charleschauffe4350]

I felt the same way about 'Time Has Come Today' by the Chambers Brothers. I consider it an injustice to play the shortened version!

[@mattiefee]

It's refreshing to hear genuinely intelligent people talking intelligently about music!

[@stevenbliss9643]

What an absolutely fascinating and liberating conversation. You must've had a blast. What a brilliant and insightful man whose passion is infectious. I fell in love with music all over again after listening to this. 48 years of playing and writing and wondering if anyone still had what I had as a kid, and in 1 hour and 18 minutes, I gratefully found it still exists. Thank you, Rick, for blessing the rest of us with all the amazing content you come up with.

[@Kevlarel84]

This guy has so much insight! People talk about the biggest companies of these times: Apple, Google, etc.. No one ever talks about the giants such as RCA who pioneered as much or more than our current front runners. RCA moved so many different things forward. Not just records and music. The music industry has gotten so bad for the artists and the consumer. Intelligent guys like this need to be utilized to change directions.

[@unabashed26]

Tremendous interview. I’m a teacher, so I know that even in education the curriculum is built to pander; but when you teach texts that are challenging, it elevates the class’s ability to think critically, communicate thoughtfully, engage intellectually and play gracefully with ideas.

[@s.gharavi1614]

... but that's not what the powers that be want

[@mikewhitfield2994]

Never hear of him before but this dude is fascinating, and Beato interviewed him to perfection. None of those five minute questions designed to make the interviewer look smart, just the minimum needed to explore the most interesting and insightful avenues. Really impressive on both sides of the conversation and really gave me insights I've never considered.

[@AngelVivaldi]

I have to say, I've come back to this podcast time and time again. One of your best!

[@dennisreese9974]

As a life long music listener, lover and audiophile, I am here to tell you both. Vinyl is alive and technology supports better turn table transfer to your speakers with clean and beautiful sound at low costs that used to cost thousands of $$. I am playing vinyl that I took care of for 65 years that sounds better today than the day I bought it.

[@kicksnarehats11]

When they were discussing substack, I always felt like interrupting the to say: "There's a thing called Bandcamp". It is basically substack for musicians, right down to the 10% percent fee on sales. Regardless, awesome and fascinating conversation!

[@DaveHillJr]

great point.

[@neill.m.herbert]

Also, how is this mysterious "super vinyl" not just good ol' CDs?

[@coolpianoman10]

As a student who is 17, and just starting the journey of music studies and music making, this interview hones into the importance of learning how important it is to develop music that transcends the material world and elevates the mind. Hoping to expand the limits and reach the world with 10 minute tracks. Thank you for an informative and encouraging conversation.

[@ayoungethan]

Make your music as long as it needs to be to tell the story you want to tell! Don't just repeat stuff over and over to make it 10 minutes (ie, respect your listener)...but also don't sell good ideas short by trying to artificially shorten them and taking out critical sections. Short isn't inherently bad and long isn't inherently good, and vice-versa. The problem is that we've gotten into a profit-driven dogma with shortening attention spans.

[@davidduncan9201]

Hopefully you can find people in your generation who still have the patience and attention span to listen to your songs all the way through.

[@transformationearthmusic]

Well said! I'm with you on that goal.

[@randykalish7558]

If you serve music the universe has reached you. The rest is less relevant; think of all the musicians who fail to reflect the deeper secrets music has to tell...

[@SF2036]

@@davidduncan9201 It’s not always about patience. I like plenty of bands that create songs that can be 10 minutes or more. The problem is that there is so much available music to listen to, and not enough time to do it. If I’m stuck on one album, I’m missing out on other albums. If I’m streaming and my playlist has a few 20 minute songs I’m missing out on other much shorter songs in the same playlist that I may actually enjoy as much or more.

[@jeremiah5319]

One of the very best interviews I've heard in decades. Thought-provoking material all around. Thank you, Rick Beato.

[@collegestatistics]

I LOVE Spotify because I listen to so much old music that's new to me. And Spotify gives us Podcasts that KZbin wouldn't touch!

[@alanpettibone]

This discussion is almost the exact internal discussion I had with myself about where I get my music from. I don’t see Apple or Spotify as entities that care about the music, which clearly they don’t. I have looked and searched for a platform that is more (or ideally all) about the music. The closest I have come to this in a streaming platform is Tidal. That being said, I have found myself at 41 years of back at record stores buying physical albums. It puts more money into the pockets of artists and there is a local connection through my locally-owned weirdo record shop. Above all, it makes music fun and enjoyable again for me. That’s really the point of music for me.

[@robertvondarth1730]

Tidal is great I wish they had 24bit 48k quality selections

[@johninama585]

I have a love/hate relationship with Spotify. I hate it because I know they don't pay artists well, but I love it because I have discovered more artists through Spotify than I ever have with any other media or platform. Some of my favorite new bands came right out of Spotify suggestions.

[@JMacque]

Right on Alan! We should always remember that music is fun.

[@lukeleton]

I’d say Spotify has been responsible for my discovery of so many new bands and artists I would’ve never heard about, as well as rediscovering older music and even 90s-00s obscure/forgotten artists I disregarded or could’ve never found at the time. The song radio and playlists have been amazing, as has KZbin’s algorithm in its own unique way… and honestly I have never listened to as many artists in any other era as ever before and it has led me to go to more live shows than ever before. My experience of new music is that the production levels and musicality is off the scale compared to past artists.

[@TheSeeking2know]

@@johninama585 That's OK. As soon as we find music we should search them out on their social media and find out how to get money into heir pockets (whether through subscriptions, PayPal, or direct album purchases).

[@simonhodgetts6530]

The most encouraging thing I’ve seen in recent years is the rise of younger musicians using KZbin as a platform to get their music into the public realm. There are some phenomenal young bands and musicians making superb music, based on creativity, musicianship, making nods to past music, looking forward to the future, and giving some faith that, however monetised the mainstream record labels, record charts and radio stations get, there will always be real bands, musicians, writers and artists who are interested in producing genuinely engaging new music. Just don’t look for it in the MSM!

[@nousernamesworking]

Tbf KZbin is pretty much just as monetized and corporate as any record label at this point

[@billyoung4214]

I’m in my 60’s and I agree that kids don’t have enough music to engage with these days. Growing up in the 70’s we had radio stations like WNEW in NYC where they’d often play an entire album side. When the albums came out we’d listen to it start to finish and pour over the liner notes. My daughter, in her 20’s complains that she can’t find new music. I don’t blame her. I listen to a pretty varied mix on Spotify, and each Monday I used to look forward to their ‘Discover Weekly’ which is supposed to be a curated list that hopefully turns you on to new stuff based on your listening habits. It’s always songs I’ve heard dozens of times. Whatever algorithm they’re using sucks. One bright note - I still have a few hundred albums and my kids gifted me a new turntable so lots of times we’ll put on an album over morning coffee. I guess there’s still hope?

[@dariusmorgan8302]

YES! Keep playing, let it keep going, dig deeper, listen, build, manifest, play and react, respond, communicate, 'Keep Talking', let the tape roll, go further...as a musician who has experienced the transcendental truth & magic of what happens when musicians play/communicate with each other and follow where the music leads and go for that unreal journey...and feel/hear what happens when you aren't afraid to go deeper, go further, take the trip...it's something that has no equal in a quick clip or a short burst...and like everything else that means something, it takes you being willing to spend the time to go there

[@bruceinoz8002]

Retired drummer / sound tech mode ON! Great interview! Always glad to hear or read new twists from anyone who has “been there and done that”. Learn from the the successes and the mistakes of others; life is too short to do everything from scratch. Vinyl, being ANALOGUE, is pretty amazing stuff. Bandwidth? The old CD4 Quadraphonic disc carried two conventional Left / Right" signals in the groove, but modulated ON TOP of the audible information were the two REAR speaker channels. To recover this extra information, you need, not only a "CD4 capable" pre-amp, but a specially-ground diamond stylus: ( Shibata" or, these days referred to as "Fine-line") A "Fineline" rock has a parabolic form and edges fine enough to read 40KHz plus, without smearing them right off the groove walls. Playing a CD4 disc with a dodgy low compliance conical stylus will wreck the disc's 4-channel ability. Vinyl is an early physical manifestation of "DC to Light" bandwidth, after a fashion. Why is most Vinyl black? PURE vinyl is WHITE, but the record companies "figured" that the mug punters would not accept a colour change as well ast a speed change, so they included a finely powdered colouring agent (basically carbon), to not offend delicate sensibilities. Every so often some daring company would release something "special" on white “virgin" vinyl. The other economy thing associated with "black" vinyl is that it is "recyclable" Punch out and discard the "label" and shred and remelt the remainder.. The problem for the purist was that less than pure vinyl contains "impurities" and these show up as "surface noise" on less than stellar pressings. (This is different from "tape hiss" from a poor master tape or "shot-noise" associated with less than perfect transistor circuits). TWO big problems with vinyl: 1. The physical medium is prone to "contamination". Hence, pops, clicks, or distortion ,usually caused by Krap playback gear that physically damages the groove walls.). The big killer is the simple fact that the effective linear speed of the stylus in the groove reduces as the "rock" spirals toward the label.. As this happens, the "grooves" contain less and less "usable" high-frequency information. Cartridges are velocity-sensitive devices. 2. This is exacerbated by the industry-standard RIAA curve, built into the recording; HF is boosted and LF is reduced. .Just for giggles, digital formats do pretty much the sane thing for vaguely related reasons.. In the "CD recording process", the equalization of the "cutting master" is first "tilted" (pre-emphasis),then linearly compressed at a precise ratio, EXACTLY the way the classic dbx noise reduction systems work. Then, it is turned into a stream of 0nes and Zeros. It is all there in the "Red Book" specification if you want some bed-time reading. As long as the process is precisely reversed on playback, all is OK. There is a final twist: The digital data is NOT laid down in a linear stream. it gets chopped and "shuffled" in a precisely regulated sequence.. Some "vintage" CDs even carried a reference to this on the "artwork": CIRC, i.e.; Cross Interleaved Reed-Solomon Code.. The object is that, if there is a bit of "crud" on / damage to the disc and the laser cannot get a valid chunk of code, the "bytes / words" that are in that "damaged" chunk come from different parts of the original linear stream. Thus after the next bit of magic; error correction, the tiny "wonky bits are buried across a field of "good" data and all is well. Pretty 'mazing stuff! Then there is the added fun feature that there is, functionally only ONE stream of data being read and rearranged, for TWO "channels". Huh? simple solution, lay them down alternately in the stream, i.e., multiplexing.. At a sample rate of 44.1K per SECOND, you need seriously golden ears to hear the time split. There are some "exotic" CD players that buffer the output streams and clock them out precisely in parallel. As for reading speed; unlike Vinyl, CD rotational speed changes constantly as the playback proceeds. There is an additional "subcode" built into the way the pits are laid out in the "track". This is a reference frequency that is synchronized to the on-board "clock" in the CD player. a very nifty bit of circuitry, basically a phase-locked loop, constantly adjusts the "spin" motor speed. Also buried in there is a "time-code, for the convenience of the user. Sony and Philips were seriously on the ball when they cooked this up in the late 1970s Then, referring back to the audio output from the D/A converter, just before that stage is a "buffer" that briefly holds the de-shuffled and corrected digital "chunks before clocking them out at a precise rate. As for frequency response, CD Audio "brick-walls" at MAX 19KHz. Put simply, in digital recording the MAXIMUM frequency recordable, is HALF (ore less) than the sample rate. 44.1Khz divided by two leaves you with 22.05 KHz. To be sure, this was trimmed back to 19Hhz. . The catch is that this, theoretically can block some "pleasing" intermodulation products that may occur if the original 30 IPS, 1/2 inch two track master is played through serious gear to a listener with the proverbial "golden ears"..Standard FM stereo radio "brickwalls" at about 16Khz, because the stereo sub-carrier, 38Khz, AND its harmonic product, 19KHz, have to be filtered out with analogue filter circuits to prevent weird and nasty intermodulation effects. See also "psycho-acoustics". Vari-speed CD players have LOTS of fun with that feature. there are LOTS of numbers being crunched to output music at an altered tempo but NO pitch change. That "buffering" was also a key to the "Discman" type personal pocket CD player. They do a "wind-up" before the music comes out, because several seconds of audio was being shoved into a BIG buffer from which it is clocked out and converted to analogue. . Got all your treasures on a multi-gigabyte SSD? Tough luck when THAT fails to read. As the Doobie Brothers sing: “LISTEN to the MUSIC”,….. NOT the gear or the hype. Cheers from an old audio bloke!! Now, back to J J Cale and Eric Clapton on the Road to Escondido.

[@FOXLIES]

Im sure your comment was interesting but I didn't read a word of it....why ....tooooo long!!!!!!!

[@msPaulaA1]

Ted Gioia is the Neil Degrasse-Tyson of music and I loved every minute of this interview! Thank you Rick for this eye opening conversation.

[@TallicaMan1986]

lol Mr. Degrassi Tyson doesn't really have a good reputation on the internet anymore, but yeah I see what you mean.

[@erikiversen408]

TallicaMan1986 is correct. NDT's reputation is quickly turning sour. He's letting his ego control him now. Ted Giolia is much more humble and likeable.

[@brunoborela4161]

Ted Gioia is actually insightful

[@joeking4206]

One of Rick’s best ever videos. Ted”s passionate description of African music “the western musicians couldn’t write it down!!” was fascinating. I totally agree that the Blues was the foundation of modern Rock and Pop music. I always think of the Rolling Stones as proof.

[@brianswan8834]

This , by far, one of the best interviews that I have listened to for a long time. So insightful.

[@robertthompson5568]

Super Vinyl is basically the CD...💿 The sound is "perfect" (highs and lows beyond human hearing) It was smaller but did come with art, liner notes, and most importantly OWNERSHIP!

[@rikknight8145]

I spent the whole super-vinyl portion of the video saying to myself, "isn't that just a CD?"

[@durwinnigus7343]

Maybe they just need to color the CDs black and make them look like they have grooves?? Many listeners will think they have something special, and they'll be convinced they love them due to their expectation biases.

[@JakeBlues-dq9xg]

Only thing is vinyl is analogue and cd is digital, there can be quality of sound difference when used with high end sound systems. It would be good to have a cutting end version of physical analogue based audio reproduction. However there is also scope for something physical which would playback in the highest dsd uncompressed digital audio formats as well I think. Both have their merits, shame it will probably not be happening anytime soon! I think they are right when they say the younger generation don't value music as much as in the past, they are happy to pay a tenner a month for a subscription but how many would spend 10 to 20 on a single album on a regular basis on something they are only partially interested in currently? I think some sort of online library where you have purchased your tracks and they are played back in high quality is a more likely new destination, possibly built upon the new interesting audiophile system rune, as this displays you music well in a well presented and browsable collection, provides added liner notes and photos etc to enhance the user experience, the quality is very high, and finally it has a very clever algorithm to recommend you new music based on your own library, very clever. The main barrier so far is just cost and hardware, but these can all be lowered in time and people can sell their music digitally much cheaper than physical costs but still way higher than the fraction of a penny you get through streaming. But the fact that there is no real incentive to purchase your music in it when you can just stream it is another big hurdle to figure out, you need the streaming aspect to discover the new stuff, there just needs to be a better incentive to buying the album digitally for a few bucks direct from the artist... Just my 2 cents anyhow 😂

[@bruceinoz8002]

Vinyl, being ANALOGUE, is pretty amazing stuff. Bandwidth? The old CD4 Quadraphonic disc carried two conventional Left / Right" signals in the groove, but modulated ON TOP of the audible information were the two REAR speaker channels. To recover this extra information, you need, not only a "CD4 capable" pre-amp, but a specially-ground diamond stylus: ( Shibata" or, these days referred to as "Fine-line") A "Fineline" rock has a parabolic form and edges fine enough to read 40KHz plus, without smearing them right off the groove walls. Playing a CD4 disc with a dodgy low compliance conical stylus will wreck the disc's 4-channel ability. Vinyl is an early physical manifestation of "DC to Light" bandwidth, after a fashion. Why is most Vinyl black? PURE vinyl is WHITE, but the record companies "figured" that he mug punters would not accept a colour change as well ast a speed change, so they included a finely powdered colouring agent (basically carbon), to not offend delicate sensibilities. Every so often some daring company would release something "special" on white virgin" vinyl. The other economy thing associated with "black" vinyl is that it is "recyclable" Punch out and discard the "label" and shred and remelt the remainder.. The problem for the purist was that less than pure vinyl contains "impurities" and these show up as "surface noise" on less than stellar pressings. (This is different from "tape hiss" from a poor master tape or "shot-noise" associated with less than perfect transistor circuits). TWO big problems with vinyl: 1. The physical medium is prone to "contamination". Hence, pops, clicks, or distortion ,usually caused by Krap playback gear that physically damages the groove walls.). The big killer is the simple fact that the effective linear speed of the stylus in the groove reduces as the "rock" spirals toward the label.. As this happens, the "grooves" contain less and less "usable" high-frequency information. Cartridges are velocity-sensitive devices. 2. This is exacerbated by the industry-standard RIAA curve, built into the recording; HF is boosted and LF is reduced. .Just for giggles, digital formats do pretty much the sane thing for vaguely related reasons.. In the "CD recording process", the equalization of the "cutting master" is first "tilted" (pre-emphasis),then linearly compressed at a precise ratio, EXACTLY the way the classic dbx noise reduction systems work. Then, it is turned into a stream of 0nes and Zeros. It is all there in the "Red Book" specification if you want some bed-time reading. As long as the process is precisely reversed on playback, all is OK. There is a final twist: The digital data is NOT laid down in a linear stream. it gets chopped and "shuffled" in a precisely regulated sequence.. Some "vintage" CDs even carried a reference to this on the "artwork": CIRC, i.e.; Cross Interleaved Reed-Solomon Code.. The object is that, if there is a bit of "crud" on / damage to the disc and the laser cannot get a valid chunk of code, the "bytes / words" that are in that "damaged" chunk come from different parts of the original linear stream. Thus after the next bit of magic; error correction, the tiny "wonky bits are buried across a field of "good" data and all is well. Pretty 'maxing stuff! Then there is the added fun feature that there is, functionally only ONE stream of data being read and rearranged, for TWO "channels". Huh? simple solution, lay them down alternately in the stream, i.e., multiplexing.. At a sample rate of 44.1K per SECOND, you need seriously golden ears to hear the time split. There are some "exotic" CD players that buffer the output streams and clock them out precisely in parallel. As for reading speed; unlike Vinyl, CD rotational speed changes constantly as the playback proceeds. There is an additional "subcode" built into the way the pits are laid out in the "track". This is a reference frequency that is synchronized to the on-board "clock" in the CD player. a very nifty bit of circuitry, basically a phase-locked loop, constantly adjusts the "spin" motor speed. Also buried in there is a "time-code, for the convenience of the user. Sony and Philips were seriously on the ball when they cooked this up in the late 1970s Then, referring back to the audio output from the D/A converter, just before that stage is a "buffer" that briefly holds the de-shuffled and corrected digital "chunks before clocking them out at a precise rate. As for frequency response, CD Audio "brick-walls" at MAX 19KHz. Put simply, in digital recording the MAXIMUM frequency recordable, is HALF (ore less) than the sample rate. 44.1Khz divided by two leaves you with 22.05 KHz. To be sure, this was trimmed back to 19Hhz. . The catch is that this, theoretically can block some "pleasing" intermodulation products that may occur if the original 30 IPS, 1/2 inch two track master id played through serious gear to a listener with the proverbial "golden ears"..Standard FM stereo radio "brickwall"s at about 16Khz, because the stereo sub-carrier, 38Khz, AND its harmonic product, 19KHz, have to be filtered out with analogue filter circuits to prevent weird and nasty intermodulation effects. See also "psycho-acoustics". Vari-speed CD players have LOTS of fun with that feature. there are LOTS of numbers being crunched to output music at an altered tempo but NO pitch change. That "buffering" was also a key to the "Discman" type personal pocket CD player. They do a "wind-up" before the music comes out, because several seconds of audio was being shoved into a BIG buffer from which it is clocked out and converted to analogue. . Got all your treasures on a multi-gigabyte SSD? Tough luck when THAT fails to read. Cheers from an old audio bloke!! Now, back to J J Cale and Eric Clapton on the Road to Escondido

[@bren1886]

Problem is perfect doesn't always sound best. I by far prefer the colours and harmonic distortions that a good vinyl and tube amp set up produce. So unbelievably relaxing

[@markstephens8396]

Now, THIS, is a Ted talk! Absolutely fantastic conversation. Thank you, Rick!

[@bunnywhite6513]

Wow this interview was absolutely fantastic!! I was hooked the entire time. I'm so glad to know Ted is out there holding it down and being a voice of sanity. He really articulated things I've been feeling and frustrated by for over a decade.

[@andrewbarlow665]

I just moved back home and have a rock radio station on at work from Detroit. They are playing the same songs I heard when I was 12 yrs old, 45 years ago, with the addition of White stripes, Foo fighters and some modern Van Halen. They play Detroit rock city like it was on a current top 30 rotation.

[@WDCousins]

This is THE best conversation about music and the music "Bizz" I've ever heard. I was laughing out loud at times. Just point after point - golden nugget after golden nugget - what a joy!!!!!! You are both gifts to music.

[@YanilleCastillo]

Also same with books now people prefer to read short books over long books

[@YanilleCastillo]

My favorite song is bohemian rhapsody and it’s 6 minutes long

[@YanilleCastillo]

I’m running to down load that song once I am done with this teaching and interview enjoying every minute of it so far

[@YanilleCastillo]

@wd cousins I know right . Blessed to have found them By accident

[@M_77779]

Allan Cross History of New Music Podcast, find the ones about industry and streaming.

[@counterflow5719]

There was a time when the only way you could hear music was when a musician or a group of musicians assembled themselves and played and performed actual live music. Now, in my life, I am continually accosted and bombarded by music that I'd rather not listen to. And, silence and the rare sounds of nature are what I long to hear.

[@Metamerist625]

People playing ludicrously loud music out of cars seems to be a massive issue these days, also people carrying around mini bluetooth speakers or even just sitting playing stuff on their phones in public places. Its obnoxious. Not to mention piped music in bars, shopping centres, waiting rooms.... ugh.

[@garycooper8687]

Amen a long time ago a guitar teacher told me the note that is not played is as important as the one that is played. It is something I have remembered for thirty some years now.

[@ericcindycrowder7482]

You are right, for MOST of humans living on this planet Live music was the ONLY way to listen to music. Sound recording technology is only 100 years old or less. Player instruments like pianos and others been around for 150 years

[@stephenfiore9960]

Can’t stand music in grocery stores and restaurants

[@valeskacanas9187]

There is a musician I abhore currently #1 and it's every where sbd it's only going to get worse- was seriously thinking of buying earplugs!!!

[@DaveHillJr]

Greatly appreciated this interview and love Rick's commitment to letting guests speak their minds, share their perspectives, and create this rich historical documentation for all to enjoy forever. The oral/aural tradition is essential for learning music and the arts for that matter and Rick deserves a LOT of credit for keeping this alive. Thank you Rick and Ted!

[@scottspencer123]

One of the best interviews ever...thank you, Rick & Ted!

[@williamwilliam728]

Thank you Rick for introducing us to Ted. He is an amazing man with a wealth of knowledge. My son is starting to venture into music for school as his career. Your channel, and introducing people like Ted to us, just assist parents like me to nurture my sons path. THANK YOU!

[@RickBeato]

@@johnsmith-ug5tp Wrong. There is always room for successful musicians if they are great. Don’t be one of those downer dad’s. Can’t deal with people that measure success that way. A degree is only worthless if you don’t learn anything. Sounds like you may have gotten one of those?

[@boneytony5041]

@@johnsmith-ug5tp Music KZbinrs have found another way to monetise their skill and knowledge.

[@williamwilliam728]

@@RickBeato Thank you for those words Rick. I am guiding my son into a field he truly loves. I have already told him it's an extremely tough business, but music is more than business in my eyes. Music is a passion and a lifelong skill/artform we all wish we had. My 15 year old just happens to have IT! There is a fantastic UK guy on KZbin called Andy Guitar, and he has the gift as a teacher. Nothing wrong with that honourable profession!

[@TonyHernando]

one of your best interviews ever, Rick! truly entertaining, informative and inspirational, thank you Rick and Ted!

[@jonbongjovi1869]

I BEGGED Rick to do a weekly series where he EXPOSES FAMOUS SCAMS IN MUSIC HISTORY, from hendrix losing his royalties to the doors losing their royalties to govt trying to outlaw THE TWIST, and on and on!

[@jamietaylor8265]

Rick, thank you for beautiful discussions like this. I can't tell you the pure joy of hearing two really bright guys talking in this manner. Apart from your tremendous musical and teaching skills, you are a kind and generous listener.

[@Rubeninsular]

Because of podcasts like this is the reason why I keep coming back to hear them. Content like this is what makes a podcast so marvelous, @RickBeato.

[@holygroove2]

Trance, intellectual appreciation, and catharsis through dance or some other form of artistic expression - those are big reasons for music. The best compliment I've received as a musician is "you guys made me forget about my life for a few moments..." That's why we do what we do. Get into the music and disconnect from your own reality for a few moments. Then return to your life inspired to do better.

[@faithhopecharity2843]

Agree. Dance & music are inseparable. Both inspired us & uplift our soul.

[@mjinba07]

Yes. And coordinated group dancing has extraordinary healing power, as does group and choral singing. Edit: Extraordinary positive power. Not just healing.

[@holygroove2]

@@mjinba07 Yes. I used to judge singing, man. But you are 100% correct.

[@unduloid]

The best compliment I ever got was "I liked it when it stopped."

[@Faus4us]

Yes! I get that feeling anytime I play for a bit. It all goes away. To give that feeling to someone else makes me so happy.

[@chuckthurmond]

Ted Gioia is also an excellent musician. The Ted Gioia Trio's "The End of the Open Road" came out in 1988 when I was working at my college's jazz radio station. Thank you for this great interview.

[@MrJoelyms]

Rick, THANK YOU for this insightful, informative and entertaining conversation. Ted is brilliant and you're a legend for bringing him to our attention.

[@lorrenaelliott161]

I.m an energy healer and I noticed that during my therapy sessions when I play healing music in the 436 frequency and other melodic tracks which are often 5-7 minutes, I literally send my clients into a higher state of consciousness …. Last night I did my first jam with my new synthesisers and I was going through the presets until I found something that tickled my brain…. I stayed with that one look for 28minutes, adjusting frequencies and filters and various parameters … I filmed it so I could remember what I had tweaked and when… then I wondered, if I posted this, would anyone watch? I felt incredible when I had brought it to and…. It was a 28 -minute meditation on one loop….. I went into a trance and it was all based on what I felt needed to be adjusted along the way and I made the changes SLOWLY … AND WAITED… until they settled…. THIS. VIDEO GIVES ME HOPE!!!! I specialise in neurodivergent clients and they appreciate the opportunity to slow down during my sessions … I really hope the shamanic healing trance state starts to make a comeback. Even my favourite producer Jon Hopkins most recent album is slow and melodic and ethereal and he called it - MUSIC FOR PSYCHEDELIC THERAPY …. I truly hope after the great reset that the pandemic brought that this will be the new trend … people want more… people understood the need to slow down and be more introspective ….

[@eric.paquet]

What a wonderful interview! I didn't know about Ted Gioia until today. The man is an invaluable treasure. I will definitely be buying some of his books. Thank you so much, Rick!

[@alanforbess4963]

Loved this discussion! Ted went to my high school (Hawthorne, CA - also home of the Beach Boys) and we both worked on the school newspaper together back in the 70's. I was actually his Editor-in-Chief for one year, and looking back I should have been taking orders from him! Ted is a fantastic writer and great intellect. Absolutely understands the convoluted history of recorded music and the problems with how we distribute, consume and monetize music in the digital age. Rick is always great, but the two of them together opened some doors to topics that are rarely discussed or even thought about. Music consumption and marketing has changed radically in the last two decades and not for the better. Bravo!

[@cosgrovepennybaker8169]

Outstanding conversation. More of these please. Thank you so much, Rick!

[@StefanEngler-rb8lu]

What an absolutely refreshing conversation. Thank you so much guys.

[@Ninjametal]

Man, I wish Ted ran a record label with his method. The resulting music would be epic.

[@roberthyde6971]

Long time listener, first time commenter here. Rick, this podcast blew my mind. A great guest, your conversation with whom was so engaging, so informative, so insightful, I was rapt from minute one. Thank you bringing high value content back to the Internet. Please let this be the first of many more podcasts to come!

[@mollymikna9354]

This confirms what they are both saying - talk up to your audience and they will listen and respond. Two intelligent people having a lengthy, well-thought out discussion. So refreshing.... again another great interview by Rick and I will certainly dig into Ted's books and articles. Thank you both for this discussion!

[@clifbalderas7768]

An absolutely fabulous interview With Daniel Rick, truly unbelievable insight on how those incredible recordings were made, the knowledge sharing and respect between the two of you was killer. Great vibe!! Bravo!!

[@davidsinger809]

I consider this a civilised conversation providing great pleasure … joy … science , reason and thought …. all what’s missing in schools …. I feel the fun in it … and more importantly the empathy…. there is so much to learn …. 👏🙏

[@ericbackup9580]

Rick is a treasure. And as you might discern, not just musically. He's a wonderful human being. So generous a teacher. And joyful to teach us. Kudos to Mr. Beato!

[@PhilipReevesMusic]

Fascinating! What a genius. I learned more about music, business, and culture from this one interview than in four years of college. Thank you Rick and Ted for sharing your knowledge and insights.

[@kevinalexander4487]

About the desire for long songs… I can say that when I have the most enjoyment with music is when I sit down at the end of a long day, grab a guitar, and play a chord progression or improvise for 30 minutes to an hour. Something about playing that long puts me into that state of relaxation in a way that nothing else does.

[@Sober2003]

I believe what Ted has to say. I’ll start with this interview I usually know in 3 or 4 minutes if I stay with a video. I stay with most of yours because they interest me and I learn from them.👌🏻❤