Wagner Singing once and now - (1964 - 2022)

[@gheorghefalcaru]

LA NILSON! FORGET THE REST!

[@jeffreymiller4814]

I heard Nilsson’s last Götterdämmerung at the Met, and then heard Hunter, Behrens and Jones. Since Nilsson was 56 and past her best, all 4 of them were quite great in “live” performances in that same house. Nilsson in her prime would have surpassed everyone but Hunter’s voice had the laser high C AND great lower notes, which Nilsson’s did not have. Jones’ voice was titanic, but I enjoyed Behrens the most. Her voice was medium size (so was Frida Leider’s!) but it was so balanced throughout her entire range it made for very pleasant listening. She and Jones were superb actresses and both had flawless musical taste. We were so lucky to have heard these great Wagnerians. They were the last of the singers in the Grand Tradition to sing this repertoire. The last 30 years have been less than stellar. The Nilsson, Frick, F-Dieskau black and white video, The Golden Ring, is a bona fide treasure. All Wagner lovers should own a copy. Windgassen’s “Brünnhilde, heilige Braut” is worth the cost of the video.

[@tobiaspeter6555]

Behrens' voice was "balanced"? I think her voice was anything but balanced. She always had serious problems with changing her registers.

[@Bacchusmbt]

Regardless of who's singing, what consistently comes through is the music, specifically the terror, and anger of the end of Act 2 Götterdämmerung.

[@ER1CwC]

I always love watching Nilsson sing because she has zero tension in her torso, even though she is singing such demanding music. Her shoulders never move. It's incredible. Jones is inflating her voice, but nonetheless exciting. Behrens is a great vocal actress, but a little unschooled vocally and thus somewhat effortful. Much respect though.

[@Paolo8772]

That 1964 session was ahead of its time, as was Die Walkure recorded one year later.

[@White-Bone]

こうした舞台演出の退化にもめげないワーグナーの音楽の強靭さには舌を巻く。

[@Bravilor]

The singing seems to have become more and more contrived and effortful.

[@BenEmberley]

Nilsson/Frick/Fischer-Dieskau were my No.1 pic. Polaski/Halvarson/Struckmann a good 2nd, and Jones/Hubner/Mazura close behind ^_^

[@martinatherton3018]

Ah! It's a horse race 🐎!

[@chocolatesouljah]

@@martinatherton3018😂

[@moragkerr9577]

Really interesting compilation, thanks. I was wondering why you chose these particular videos? By my count there are nineteen complete Ring cycles currently available on either DVD or online (four of which you used), plus four more orphaned Götterdämmerung performances (two of which you used). What prompted these particular choices? (Mainly asking because you left out my all-time favourite, the 1992 recording of the Harry Kupfer Ring at Bayreuth and let's hear it for Anne Evans there. I also have very soft spots for the 2006 Copenhagen Ring and the 2012 one from the Met.) Also, small point of correction. The Boulez/Chereau Götterdämmerung was filmed in 1979, not 1980. The other three parts of the Ring were indeed filmed in 1980, but they did Götterdämmerung first in 1979 to see if it was feasible before carrying on with the entire cycle.

[@tonykellen8989]

I too like Anne Evans.

[@moragkerr9577]

@@tonykellen8989 It's not just her singing, it's her dramatic presence. For once I can really see this Brünnhilde as a valkyrie.

[@Slaptothefuture]

so basically, it progressively became more vulgar, both in the theatrical and vocal productions.

[@mikaelb7735]

Interesting and so "different". Not a plesant vibrato from Jones and the wobble from Theorin needs no comment.

[@brunegilda2453]

Where is Wolfgang Windgassen? Don't we deserve to hear and watch him sing Siegfried? Didn't he deserve to be heard?

[@ER1CwC]

Siegfried doesn't appear in this excerpt.

[@Horichdaslicht1858]

I never heard Nilsson live, but Rita Hunter and Alberto Remedios were superb for Goodall in the 1970's. I hope Covent Garden will be looking at Catherine Foster and Andreas Schager in their forthcoming Ring.

[@illyaismaili6413]

Foster is terrible

[@МихайлоЛьвович-ш6у]

Вагнер это Gesamtkunstwerk! Мы говорим только о пении, а в расчет принимать нужно все. Все представленные певицы, за исключением Нильсон, великие актрисы. Теорин на сцене вживую производит сильнейшее апечатление, так же как и Фостер. Других к сожалению видел только в записи, но и в записи они поражают артистической игрой. Беренс гениальна!

[@XlikeZero]

Нильссон поет лучше всех из них, и это невозможно это не брать в расчет

[@1968KWT]

Dame Gwyneth Jones + Éva Marton + Hildegard Behrens ✅🌹👏🏼

[@draganvidic2039]

I prefer Gwyneth Jones to Eva Martons muffled timbre even if Jones has a wobble. Marton was ok before she got famous around early 80’. Hildegard Behrens is a guilty pleasure of mine so… But of course BIrgit Nilsson is in a league of her own… This video starts with the best then second best and…

[@SilfredoSerrano]

Nilsson is the gold standard, Jones is next in line through problematic. She is fine here and I've heard her in the house. Marton was good in 1985. I never liked Hildegard Behrens: take that for what it's worth. Deborah Polaski had a big voice, but her top was very high larynxed. Cathern Foster is underwhelming. Theorin has a good voice, tone, but she's really wobbling.

[@thomasdeansfineart149]

I heard Nilsson, Jones, Behrens, and Marton all live. Nilsson is indeed the gold standard. For sheer integration of the voice from top to bottom, clarity, carrying power, and an unassailable high extension no one in my lifetime has come near. I first heard her as a boy, the year after this recording. It was a life-changing experience, for which I will always thank my somewhat insistent mother. The others that I've heard all had something to offer even if the voices weren't always controlled. Marton went into a sad early decline after a brilliant start--her Empress in Die Frau at the Met (c1980) eclipsed memories even of Nilsson's Dyer's Wife. Marton's late Turandot at the Met was simply embarrassing, not to mention flat and wobbly above the staff. Jones could be very exciting on stage, despite wobbling and sailing way north of the pitch. Behrens was wonderfully musical. Her Fidelio was very moving. Polaski, Foster, and Theorin all show the sorry state into which vocal pedagogy has fallen. Nilsson, b.1918, can be said to be the last student (in this group) in the great tradition of voice pedagogy that extended through WWII. (P.S. I'm not writing this to belittle other people's favorite singers. We all have different ears cultivated through different experiences.)

[@JULIESIMONSOPRANO]

Nilsson is so far and away beyond the others. There’s just no comparison

[@DimitrisLian]

Just like the staging in these productions, the singing keeps getting worse and worse and more absurd. Can't be a coincidence. I'm sure if we had filmed parts from even earlier productions we would see even greater stuff! (some snippets of Flagstad in Hojotoho from 1940, Frieda Leider with Max Lorenz in 1934 Beyreuth corroborate this) Sad. But great video!

[@gaulandisteinverbrecherisc6259]

Sorry, Irene Théorine is worst...

[@tobiaspeter6555]

OK, Nilsson excels everyone, needless to say. Eva Marton is not bad, I think. Jones has a strong voice, but an ugly wobble. All other sopranos here are bad jokes by comparison.

[@martinatherton3018]

Hildegard Behrens is a "bad joke"? Right...😅

[@tobiaspeter6555]

@@martinatherton3018 By comparison to Nilsson, yes! Get ears!

[@martinatherton3018]

​​@@tobiaspeter6555- I have ears, thank you, Mr Peter. I also have pity for you if you can't appreciate a different kind of great voice to Nilsson's stainless steel.

[@tobiaspeter6555]

@@martinatherton3018 If you never heard Behren's problematic register breaks I have pity for your NOT having ears, thank you.

[@martinatherton3018]

​​@@tobiaspeter6555 - please save your thanks. I can appreciate both Nilsson and Behrens and I'm the richer for it; you, are the poorer because you can't.

[@peteradaniel]

I’m sorry are we supposed to be looking at Eva Marton as an example of the historical standard of Wagnerian singing?!?! Yikes! Everyone other than Birgit Nilsson is god awful. Bayreuth has been artistically redundant for decades. Let’s start talking about Martha Mödle , Astrid Varnay, Kirsten Flagstad, Eileen Farrell, Naděžda Kniplová, Gladys Kutcha, then we’re talking about historically great and acceptable Brunnhilde. Eva Marton is not this!

[@Wotan123456789]

Marton was a fine Brunnhilde in this cycle. Both Jones and Behrens were extraordinary Brunnhildes. For sure, if you are someone who needs to see an opening of the second act of Walkure happening on a rock with a Walkure entering with a speer, a shield and a helmet, for sure Bayreuth is not for you and neither Wieland Wagner (who was the main regisseurs of the time when the singers that you mentioned used to sing in Bayreuth)

[@SilfredoSerrano]

This is not an example of "historical" standard of Wagnerian singing. Please read the description. It's a timeline of then and now and ricordius chose to start with Nilsson ending up with the most recent Theorin. It's a way to look at how Wagner singing has changed over time.