Riding RTD Commuter Rail from Denver Airport to Union Station | Amtrak Winter Park Express in Denver

[@AlexCab_49]

The RTD commuter trains have one of the highest riders per mile in the US only behind LIRR and Metro North!

[@schwenda3727]

For such a new system?!

[@JoeyLovesTrains]

@@schwenda3727 it’s mainly the A line to the airport

[@mrvwbug4423]

That's almost entirely the A line. The older and more extensive light rail system only has about 1/6th the ridership. Still the A line is by far the best way to get the the airport in Denver.

[@himbourbanist]

RTD, in spite of its recent issues, has been really impressive with just how quickly its been built out. there's a LOT of work and improvements to be done, mostly in frequency and development anchored by transit, but by and large it's a healthy foundation for a regional rail network and I'm looking forward to what the future has in store for the system

[@Thom-TRA]

This is a well-balanced comment!

[@dexteralexander2437]

A Note Of Appreciation: Last Wednesday we flew into Denver to board the California Zephyr. We followed your advice/example in this video and rode the RTD A Line from the airport to Union Station and our hotel, The Crawford. Thanks for the great information and keep up the good work!

[@Thom-TRA]

I’m glad it worked! Always feels good to know a video inspired someone else’s trip. I have to ask, how was the Crawford??

[@dexteralexander2437]

@@Thom-TRA The Crawford was excellent. Third floor room, quiet, beautifully appointed, and 12 foot high ceilings. The bed was the most comfortable hotel bed we’ve experienced in recent stays. The convenience of the Union Station shops, restaurants, Amtrak office and trains nearby are selling points. We were pleased with our choice.

[@MRey-t9u]

I live here and the system is so underrated. It’s honestly one of the best systems in the country. Miles better than Dallas, Salt Lake City or phoenix. Also there is tons of development around stations which is great.

[@timlove1]

I rode this train last week Thursday, June 13. I don’t know why anybody would want to rent a car in Denver. You certainly wouldn’t need to do it from the airport. Very wonderful and convenient service. It was a very quick trick. in fact the very next morning I went back to that Denver Union Station and took the California Zephyr through the Rockies to Salt Lake City. My visit to Denver was way too short, and I definitely plan on going back. I agree with this video that they have a wonderful transit system. Living in Salt Lake City I can see that ours is not far behind, and ours is still being built as well. But it is great to see things going in a good direction.

[@Thom-TRA]

Sounds like a lovely trip!

[@dennisforner6090]

I have Denver down as a 3 day stop when I eventually get to do the Amtrak Californian Zephyer from Chicago to Sacramento - the Union Stations looks impressive as does the local rail network. I fully agree with you Thom it is refreshing to see that many American cities are expanding their rail networks, especially using EMU. The Winter Express seems like a great way to experience the local snowfields & Crawford Hotel seems like a logical place to stay in Denver, especially if traveling by train. Very enjoyable viewing - as always. Thank you for sharing.

[@Thom-TRA]

Denver is a lot of fun. You can go into the city but Rocky Mountain National Park is also really close! When I was a Kindergartner I went to Australia and I have some vague recollections of the commuter rail network there. Would love to go back and explore it!

[@davidfreeman3083]

You forgot to mention the EMUs that RTD uses are the Silverliners. Which is basically the sibling of the ones used in Philly, one of the only other metro areas that I can think of that has fully electrified regional rails.

[@rwrynerson]

Regarding fares at the airport: I was involved in setting up the original SkyRide coach service for the new airport, including 22 night public meetings, hundreds of customer contacts, etc. What became apparent is that there were several separate markets involved. Until 2022, RTD operated under state legislation that mandated operating cost recovery levels. And, the original 1995 airport service was a huge increase in bus miles/hours all at once, even though it was only 2/3 of what was demanded by local governments and potential riders. To put it in perspective, it took an order of 20 additional highway coaches and we were overwhelmed at that with standees on many trips. All while well meaning people kept insisting that no one would ride it because the fares were too high. The only people who pay the full one-way fare are air travelers and occasional workers who carpool in the other direction. Both of those groups argued for good headways throughout an extended service day and week, regardless of productivity of a given trip, because they did not know with fluctuations in air service which trip they would ride. Employees on the other hand, cared little about headways, but wanted shift times covered. The tariff provides monthly passes for them that are priced the same as all the other suburban routes of similar lengths. Or, their employers can buy annual passes for them as a benefit. They warrant a lower cost per ride because of their predictability. We found unofficially that the biggest complaint about this came from carpoolers who wanted transit service as a back-up, not as regular customers. All of these alternatives provide free transfer access to a vast network; people making comparisons often compare RTD's fares with one provider in a Balkanized region and ignore the need to pay a second or even third fare there. The airport rail fares then have been based on the successful concepts developed on the "temporary" coach service from 1995 to 2015.

[@mrvwbug4423]

And RTD just simplified and reduced their fares across the board starting on Jan 1st. airport zone dropped to $10 flat and includes an all day pass to the rest of the system. Now to get the rail expansion projects going since the feds want to build a front range regional rail system. Though US36 was a missed opportunity, when it was upgraded several years ago they should've built the B line ROW down the median and gotten service to Boulder going sooner than the 2040s. Would also love to see the G line completed out to Golden

[@MichaelMyersofColorado]

Denver was beautiful.

[@233CFH]

I like how there trains are pretty much the same as the silverliner v railcars in Denver are a tiny bit different than the ones in Pennsylvania. The doors are different and unlike Septa, it seems odd to know that there trains are equipped with e bells. Great video.

[@JoeyLovesTrains]

They also have no railfan window sadly. They also run on 25Kv at 60Hz instead of 12Kv at 25Hz

[@mrvwbug4423]

RTD also only operates at 79mph vs up to 125mph for SEPTA. If I recall they were not able to get cab based signaling on the line because it's a BNSF ROW. At least having 25kv electrification already in place makes a strong case for electrifying the front range regional rail that Amtrak wants to build, since CDOT would make a major push to have easy connections to RTD rail from any such system and may insist on it being electrified as a condition of CDOT singing onto a state run Amtrak service.

[@otpmetairie4862]

Thanks 🌞

[@mystica-subs]

Bit of a misnomer in the video, 3:55 the entire line is actually _not_ double-tracked. There is a single-track section presently between 40th and Airport Blvd. and Peoria stations. They planned to have the ability to upgrade to dual-track, but for cost reasons *sigh* we have a 1.6 mile single-track viaduct right now over a pick-your-part lot, and a warehouse parking lot..

[@PhilippDöhler]

for you and the enviroment.

[@C.Q_Wilkenson]

This should be the standard for public transit in America

[@Thom-TRA]

The bare minimum at least

[@mrvwbug4423]

RTD should be the bare minimum. MTA should be the gold standard.

[@usamaafsar7209]

nice video thank you

[@danielueblacker9118]

Nice video Bear supporting brother, life is good.

[@Thom-TRA]

Life is good! How are you doing?

[@glennlrw]

When I was visiting Denver a couple of years ago, one of the branch lines of the RTD had a driver (one per train) that did not show up for work. Guess what? The rides were cancelled for what would have been his shift until someone else showed up! I do hope they have solved the personnel situation since then.

[@Thom-TRA]

The same thing happened in Chicago this past summer all the time and it was very frustrating…

[@v12tommy]

Nope. That happens everyday, multiple times a day, and they are awful at letting you know about it too. Usually the only way I find out is using their app to show when the next train will arrive, and it will say cancelled. Using the schedule these days is pretty much pointless, due to all the cancellations.

[@mrvwbug4423]

Hard to tell, I don't ride it enough. But I do know that RTD has billboards and advertisements all over Denver looking for both train engineers and rail mechanics. but yeah the understaffing is pretty bad when they have to cancel trains if an engineer calls in sick. And they're well paid, $38/hr starting wage union job.

[@matthewhall1062]

Philly's SEPTA is all electrified.

[@Thom-TRA]

And that video will be up next week!

[@deaventuraconkikomas4281]

Wow very modern and clean... Cool!

[@TenMinuteTrips]

I lived in the Denver area between early 1987 and late 1988. Stapleton was the main airport (all that’s left is the control tower and the United Airlines flight sim facility at Quebec and MLK) and there was no commuter rail. John Elway was the Broncos quarterback. Rockies baseball didn’t exist. I-70 through Glenwood Canyon was still under construction. Most of the drive through the canyon was on old US Highway 6. Today, what’s left of that is a bike path! (The California Zephyr runs through the canyon parallel to the Colorado River and I-70 near Glenwood Springs). I think that part of the problem of why these rail cars built in 2015 look so “rugged” is because of the way government contracts work. It’s possible that the ugliest design was likely going to be the most reliable (he said while a broken train is blocking the mainline!) over the estimated life of the vehicle. And they may have also been the low bidder. Just a thought.

[@mrvwbug4423]

It's the Silverliner V, the latest iteration of an EMU design that has been around since the 1960s. Hyundai currently owns the rights to it and built them for RTD and SEPTA, but previous iterations were built by Bombardier and Budd Company. The blocky, rugged look also is done for crash protection, US trains have stricter crash protection standards because of the sheer size and weight of the freight trains they share trackage with.

[@MegaSb360]

Thank You !!! I'm proud of Deverr, the city I call my home

[@Thom-TRA]

I love visiting your home town!

[@femmec6644]

This was helpful for me visiting Denver. Thanks!

[@Thom-TRA]

You’re welcome! Enjoy the train and Denver!

[@njdevils17]

Are there conductors on these trains, or are they sort of like a light rail where there's no conductor and just the engineer? How are the other lines? Do they run pretty well too?

[@bshelley234]

The commuter rail lines have conductors on board (A, N, B & G lines). Light rail lines do not, but all lines have RTD security officers on board who check tickets and whatnot.

[@mrvwbug4423]

@@bshelley234 The conductor or security officer on the LRT trains sits in the back car pair of the train, so I assume the engineer is supposed to check tickets in the front car pair, and I don't know if they have a 3rd person when they run 6 car consists on the LRT

[@midmichiganemdrailfan.4187]

I'm kinda surprised you didn't video the horns and 1 or 2 crossing

[@Thom-TRA]

They don't really blow their horns that much to be honest

[@midmichiganemdrailfan.4187]

@@Thom-TRA Why would they put a Quiet Zone in middle of send City and it's only a few transit and more freight

[@Thom-TRA]

@@midmichiganemdrailfan.4187 there’s barely any railroad crossings, at least on the A line.

[@gnhansen29]

Does part of the line share a reservation or track with the Union Pacific or Amtrak? The line reminds me of some of the Australian systems.

[@Thom-TRA]

No it’s all separated

[@da9618]

You ought to check out NYCs MTA system

[@Thom-TRA]

I love riding the MTA. Done it many times.

[@da9618]

@@Thom-TRA I was at the Denver airport, and it's a beautiful airport and I'm glad they put that train system there, because that airport is in the middle of nowhere when I went through there

[@sleepythespian1455]

“A lot of the light rail lines”… As a local, I will say this now. That statement above is not very true, as Union Station is only served by 2 of our 6 LRT lines.

[@Thom-TRA]

Bro no one cares

[@imagine7029]

My point!!!....need better looking trains!!

[@connecticutmultimodaltrans8226]

Tbh I respectfully disagree. The ridership on the RTD system is really low because the fares are high and the trains mostly go to the middle of nowhere. It has cost way more than originally planned and with the current costs I don't think they should continue with the plan to build rail to Boulder. There's an extreme housing crisis in the Denver area and I think some of the money they spent on trains to park and rides and to the middle of nowhere (Lone Tree City) should've been spent on housing and making actual places, including better walkability, accessibility, and bikeability. I visited Denver for a few days last September and was also excited and enamored to use the system, but quickly learned of its flaws and gaps between the fancy infrastructure and canopy at Union Station.

[@Thom-TRA]

Come on now, to say ridership is really low is kind of unfair. Sure, it's much lower than LIRR or Metro North, but it still ranks 7th or 9th out of all 26 systems, depending on the list. Its average weekday ridership is higher than MARC or LA's Metrolink. I do agree that cities need to invest in their livability, but I believe that walkability and bikeability must go hand in hand with good public transportation. Denver has the trains and the lines, what's more, they're better than almost anything else the US has. Once more neighborhoods are built, these people will have access to a modern train that already exists and links right up to the central business district. I don't believe the dichotomy between building housing and building trains as you pose it exists, I think both need to support each other. That being said, after doing some research online, it seems like the complaints you're voicing primarily have to do with the RTD's light rail system. It does seem as though these routes need some major improvement to provide more equity for passengers with disabilities and for black neighborhoods.

[@Thom-TRA]

I understand the point about Boulder though. 1.5 billion dollars is an insane amount of money, and most of it seems to be BNSF's fault. At the same time, communities along the proposed B Line extension have invested in making their towns more transit-oriented, and are suffering as a result of the train not being there yet.

[@connecticutmultimodaltrans8226]

@@Thom-TRA I mean saying they're a certain # on a country with bad commuter rail systems isn't saying anything tbh. The fares are expensive just like the rest of the systems in the US. Building the infrastructure and trains are half of a transit project, the other half is housing, jobs, and actual places around the lines and stations and they have utterly failed at this. There was extreme potential to have it oriented around walkable and accessible communities, but instead they still built park and rides in the 2010s which is absurd. yeah it's ridiculous amount of money.

[@Thom-TRA]

@@connecticutmultimodaltrans8226 I believe I said in my video, towards the end, that I recognize that there are many countries with much better systems. I have lived in several of these countries, and used those systems every day. That being said, the US is a country with a much stronger inward focus than an outward one, and so other cities wishing to implement rail systems will look for domestic examples first. I also said in my video I wish they would provide better coverage, but I don’t think I share as strong a sense of cynicism as you do.

[@Thom-TRA]

Now let’s talk price. A day pass is $6, or $10,50 from the airport. 3 rides on the L or the NY Subway and you’ve paid more than that. (Although I am very happy the CTA made its $5 day passes permanent). The A Line is 23 miles long. Let’s say you only take one ride. Thats $10.50 for 23 miles. Let’s move to the Netherlands. The distance between the cities of Leiden and Rotterdam is also 23 miles. I know because this used to be part of my commute. The price for this route, if you buy a paper ticket, is €9.20. That’s $10.13. Now if you take another trip on any RTD service, you’ve already reduced what you paid for the initial 23 miles. I believe public transport should be free, sure, but to call RTD overly expensive is in my opinion a mischaracterization.

[@moishglukovsky]

“Incredibly unique.” Well, SEPTA in Philadelphia is fully electric, so Denver is not unique.

[@Thom-TRA]

Wow, two whole systems. Way to go America, A for effort. Now do the rest of them.