RIGGED MM: A FOLLOW UP | WOTB

My last video looked at WG's MM US Patent, but I wanted to do a follow up looking at the actual game, rather than the legal bits n bobs.
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[@cancracker]

I recently had a 7 game losing streak in the tier x LT and the thing was not only were my teams bad but the rng was also horrendous. Shots didn’t hit and when they hit they didn’t score damage, things of that nature. My team mates were all below 50% win rate players, some low forties and even high thirties vs a mix of high 50% and 40% which just obliterated us on every occasion. So I closed the game switched from Wi-Fi to the mobile network and using the t62 things went back to normal. The problem with the matchmaker isn’t that it creates such teams but that it does so in a row. I’m convinced that had I not stopped the losing streak would have been going on. There are times when the game is simply unplayable and the best example is just after mission reset. In those cases both teams are flooded with bad players but somehow the enemy team is more compact and they win. So the absence of great players doesn’t have anything to do with that as both teams are quite balanced in terms of win rate around those hours. So something strange is going on with the matchmaker which I believe is not random at times. Why it does that? Probably to psychologically condition players to spend being the main reason.

[@FugitsBlitz]

Aw Canny I have missed you buddy :)

[@PB-pk8lt]

Thanks for these 2 videos. I have been getting disillusioned recently. My WR had gone down since the server merge. But watching you videos has re-motivated me to refresh and try again! All the best. An Old Elizabethan from Worcester. 😉

[@bigbluebowtie]

Thanks for coming back for content! Great video and well said. The state of mind during play really effects your outcome. Thank you for some sense of game play.

[@tfodthogtmfof7644]

I have had some games where MM randomly put me in disadvantaged match ups. I have had games where RNGesus did not hear my prayers and the Hand of Stalin did not guide my shells. However, there are many more games where I put my tank in the wrong place, failed to fully aim, or simply played like a muppet. Some of those times advantaged MM (teammates carrying the rest of us nubs), RNGesus giving a high roll, or the ghostly Hand of Stalin guided my round into that pixel tall cupola shot from way too far away, has given me a win my gameplay did not deserve. In between those extremes are the games I played well, worked hard, had a chance, and may or may not have pulled off.

[@randomdaemon9345]

It’s not so much that the MM is specifically rigged against any one player. I believe it takes into account player win rate, the tank type they are using, the overall performance of that tank and the individual’s performance in that tank. On top of that you get very unbalanced MM recently as far at team makeup. I have had many games where I’m the only medium or light tank on my team and the other team has two mediums or a light and medium tank. There are also unbalanced tier types too. Where one team may get a tier 10 heavy and the other team will get two tier 9 heavy tanks. I’ve found that you can get more favorable teams if you change tier and tank types every few matches. Playing one tier and one tank form consecutive matches seems to result in you getting poorer MM results to start with. There is not a deliberate attempt by WG to make the MM biased (with the exception of fun modes). It’s a combination of poorly designed MM and players base skill levels.

[@411nightnheaven]

Im 62% wr and getting constant 40% noobs in team while the enemy team is packed with 55% and above.

[@billplaninshek8314]

Fugit what you said works for me. Best of the day. Cheers.

[@tricky48]

Everything you said is correct and demonstrable in game after game. A patent is not evidence of its use... patents get made for all sorts of reasons. The person that made the original video has accused player after player of tunneling him, particularly, in so many of his videos. Like, folks just only shoot him. When, in fact, focusing and tunneling specific targets is PART OF THE GAME. Taking out important tanks with focus fire is a normal tactic. It's not a personal vendetta by the entire playerbase like he seems to think. This is an example of how shifted his thinking is and how easily he attributes a loss or bad game to something other than its actual cause. I love this game. Win or lose, it's fun. Good video Fugit.

[@JustAPenguinPlayingBlitz]

Wait! Are you saying that this whole game hasn’t been designed for the sole purpose of making my gaming life painful? Oh yeah I’m not that important, no one is that important and if I or they think that maybe I / we are more deluded than I thought I/ we were - can I blame rigged MM for all my problems? My coffee was cold? My toast was burnt I stubbed my toe? Tinfoil hats and burning my finger prints off next !! 😂😂😂thank you Fugit! You do cheer me up 👍🏻👍🏻🐧

[@herbertgearing1702]

The mm al gore rhythm has gotten to him too! I for one welcome the oppression of our ai overlords.

[@buckmerdoc8860]

When it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it tends to be a duck!

[@furiousc9881]

Best commentary on the subject I’ve seen. If WG were more transparent about the mechanisms behind the MM and RNG, people would do everything they could to subvert it. And there are way too many factors outside of MM that directly affect your outcome. Often my bad play also comes down to myself trying to play a specific tank over and over to accomplish a BP mission or something like that. Also, I like your chess analogy, one I’ve used before with my friends who question the appeal of this game.

[@ULC180]

do not agree. just make it really random thats it…. that what you would expect from a game. tank types count. yes. rest no! that‘s it! I don‘t care about flow theory, etc…. really!

[@Lt-Dan]

Bad team mates are part of the rigging of the games

[@robbilton9006]

They've made it just to easy to get high tiers too fast and you see this in the gameplay. Ranking means nothing. I don't think I've seen a high rank tank with a high skill player yet. It's easier to assume they are a potato and leave them till last and you won't be disappointed. I've started tank company, a new game and you lose because half the team rush to the other side and brawl in the open and die in a few minutes. Which in a 15 minute game is even more frustrating. I've never subscribed to rigged mm, it's obvious as a "seasoned veteran" that is purely team skill. Good video.

[@numbfinger7137]

Damage greed players are suck, they left low HP tank to farm more damage on other enemy and reducing the chance of winning because they still have the same amount firepower. I generally don't trust anything about rigged mm issue, it's completely random, sometimes i even got rerolls or newbies account in my team with sub 1k battles. Sometimes i got 20 Winstreaks, sometimes i got 20 lose-streaks. Some people keep bragging about Win rate based match-making like it's gonna make it better than what is already served.

[@snoopyok4773]

Agree wit most of the overall statements here. However there are quite a numbers of games where you have for example a team with mostly lights and meds vs mainly heavy and TDs. Which is pulling the game to a certain play that needs to happen in order to win if that is not happening because of the individuals decisions made you are lost. Same in tier 7/6 match making having two smasher or annihalator on one team, zero of these types of tanks on the other you can win of cause against the odds.But that is not happening often, see mentioned individual decision making above. Yes it is still coming down to the individuals as you said but the deck of cards are quite often stacked against you it seems. Hence the old saying 20% lost, 20% won and 60% influenced by you and the team as a whole.

[@srj607able]

There is rng and MM rigging. As a veteran, we all know that. But most of the games i lose , i do check out my mistakes and see where i made a mistake. And most of my current mistakes are just being cocky , not being patient enough and relying too much on my team. So that is why I rarely play TD and LT anymore. Most of the times in pub games, td and lt players are really bad. Playing mt and ht gives me more options on not losing and increasing survivability. . But lately wg has been a fng joke... 1 mt vs 1 mt and 1 lt ... Playing mt in top tiers in pub games is quite frustrating. But it is what it is.

[@numbfinger7137]

even better joke they put 1 bottom tier LT/MT against 2-3 top tier MT/LT, and that one player got the blame from the team because they won't go to 1 vs 3 or spot the enemies. BaLaNcE, they drink too much lately.

[@calculusantienjoyer254]

you work around that. that’s why you pull a heavy tank to the medium side to keep it clear. or just have the entire team push left

[@SABATAZH97]

exactly,when i play during night my wr is usualy 60-70 but during day oh god it is terrible

[@buckmerdoc8860]

So basically you confirmed the poor/good player ques?

[@furiousc9881]

Oh and please tell me you are announcing the tourney this year 🤠

[@ominous_plays]

An individuals WR is generally 10-15% higher than their survival rate, if someone only survives 35% then they will have 45-50% WR. Survival can not be controlled by MM or even team mates that falls squarely on the shoulders of the player. If a person wants a 60-65% WR then they need to learn to survive 50% of their games. Check blitzstars for survival % look at the games you lost then ask yourself, "what could I have done differently to stay alive"...

[@RocknrollaBlitz]

Whats the point u can lose and survive also? Happens so many times in supremacy

[@RocknrollaBlitz]

@Thomas B man survival is ok but that dont mean your winrate will go up if you survive more because its possible to lose and stay alive

[@soulserver127]

But what are you suppose to do about the team dying and the enemies still having 7 tanks with only a few that are 1 or 2 shots. It constantly happens it could even be just you and another teammate left and they just yolo through because they feel its a loss anyways. There are even times when you try to type in team chat to help and that teammate does not have it on so they are tired of the toxicity and just use quick chat. I know quite a few people who turn chat off and only use quick chat(i can't say i blame them for doing so)

[@wtfmrb293]

Being low tier 9 of 10 battles. Yes that’s totally random

[@markogaudiosi5243]

That's what im talking about, total bs.

[@Nenshokaze]

Eh, you’re probably right that it isn’t rigged MM. Though the MM could use a bit more tinkering with. I think we should have 8 vs 8 matches if they want to keep the games a bit shorter for the “I’m playing on the bus” players or 12 vs 12 if we want longer more competitive battles. Of course Blitz is in the name so they want it to be fast paced compared to WoT PC. Still fast paced doesn’t mean yolo and stuff like that. You still have 7 to 8 minutes. Anyway I thought of a battle I had last night where I screwed up badly and my whole team just sucked too. We all played badly.

[@susanr9]

Rigged is the wrong word to describe. How it works it is a different story. And everyone of us uses the same game mechanics, the same mm and the same player base. And also a lot of super-unicum players that started the game back in 2015 they were 50% but they kept improving. For example: Droodles in 2017: around 9k battles and 51%wr, now 65.75% overall Steaktastic in 2015: around 12k battles and 58% wr, now 70.52% overall HisRoyalFatness in 2015: around 12k battles and 65%, improving like crazy at this point. He was under 60%. Now over 73%.

[@gallabru97]

There is nothing you can do to change someone's tilt. But there are many ways of checking statistically how MM differs from a random selection of players. So far, no analysis has ever revealed rigged/biased MM (in regular encounters) be it in term of skill of the teams, skill of players in tank, correlations from one game to the next or in the long term. We know that every time WG has been trying to 'balance' games, this was never delicate (fun modes, annihilator...). It is always funny to me how some can spot evidences of rigged MM having strong effects within a few exemples that a thorough statistical analysis can not reveal over hundredth of battles. You are right Fuggit, tilt is probably the major source of imbalance. Good news is, it is up to us. Ok, sometimes, teams are helpless... sometimes.

[@tomtwr3]

Then what do you think about Wargaming matching copy righted matching procedures that admitted that every game is rigged. Tanks rng, aiming, low roll etc, there are many aspects of each game and of each tank they (wargaming) admitted they control...

[@markogaudiosi5243]

Yes , but we are conspiracy theorists.

[@tomtwr3]

@Marko Gaudiosi we would be if wargaming didn't actually file a legal copyright registration of their basic matching algorithms so that another game company would not copy them or steal them...

[@dwarf_nz483]

Well said sir! Your point about leaving the game if you really think the MM, or any other part of the game, is "rigged" is a great one. But of course that is not what disgruntled players want to do. Instead they would rather rage at other players or at WG or whatever to, as you say, find excuses as to why they aren't the legends in their own lunchboxes they think they are.

[@Akaneblaze1345]

Ah So you also believe this clown, okay.

[@markogaudiosi5243]

What about losing 15 games in a row? 7 0 , 6 1 games, bad luck?! I dont think so. It happens to me every 2/3 days, no matter what tank or tier i go. What are the fucking odds? Then suddenly the game feels " normal" Again .

[@adjman668]

If the MM makes the game harder the more you win that’s not “rigged”. We use to call that leveling up….how fun would pac-man be if every level was the same as level 1?

[@ericaklein445]

I played 31 games the other day, I lost 19 and I was in the top 3 players almost every game. I used every type of tank, went up and down from tier 6 to 10. I have had these type of days for the past 2 weeks. My stats are in the toilet and I can’t seem to get on any winning teams. I do believe Wotb has sone type of mm that puts you in these situations no matter what you say. Prior to update 9.0 I was average to slightly above but now every day my stats and so forth dwindle to nothing again even when I perform well on the team I’m stuck with. Explain that

[@FugitsBlitz]

What server?

[@barenddejong5474]

@@FugitsBlitz EU for me

[@ericaklein445]

@@FugitsBlitz steam

[@markogaudiosi5243]

Its happening to me. 25 games , 19 lost. Wtf. Not normal, all that bla bla about mistakes. Nope, i can see from the beginning we are going to lose.

[@ericaklein445]

@@markogaudiosi5243 it has been horrible lately, I do my best but my teams evaporate in a minute leaving me to fight 4 plus tanks at once, never a wining scenario.

[@denkeylee]

You just glazed over the fact that the games are rigged. A++ to Fugit. I would tell you the same thing I told the guy in Ratings battles.

[@FugitsBlitz]

If that is your opinion then you are entitled to it

[@denkeylee]

@@FugitsBlitz Sorry, I don't know why I wrote that post in that way.

[@FugitsBlitz]

@@denkeylee I wasnt having a go lol Like I said in the video, it is impossible to change a persons opinion and Im not here to do anything of the sort. People are free to choose their own views and if they differ to mine that is perfectly acceptable & welcomed. I wont argue with anyone for having a different view, unless that view is hateful or something. You final comment regarding fudge doesnt upset or even offend me, I am bigger than that and I value all views, comments and opinions good, bad or indifferent. Never stop expressing your own views!

[@albarrak7]

yeah but i recently quitted the game again, i keep getting players with below 1k battles in uprising, that doesnt happen in random battles. and in terms of aiming, i have full days where my shell just hit the floor, constantly. THERE ARE flatuations u get streaks where every shot LANDS even on full dispersion, and full streaks where nothing literaly lands or pens even. theres some algorythim influincing the performence of tanks then why the fack the damage and pen have variables from +25% and -25%?

[@Rehunauris]

My latest "curse" is that shots ricochet when shooting TD's and light tanks from rear or side... I mean wtf. How is that even possible?

[@Lonely_Old_Gamer]

But I bet your still getting 360 no scoped by a t49 moving at full chat across a ridge line lol

[@AprofessorA]

A game is meant to be fun. Why play a game if you're not enjoying it? The rigged mm conspiracy is and will always be around, no matter what. All we can do is try to improve ourselves. Those last couple toon games with you fugit were fun, even if we didn't win most of them. Either we or the team didn't perform, may that be RNG or just bad gameplay. It happens, we can't win them all. You just sometimes have those losing sessions and win sessions. Luck still plays a big part in this. I just hope people can understand this someday.

[@freethinker9542]

I agree that WOTB is more like chess than just shooting. But if you have ten+ losses in a row of 0-7 and 2-7 battles where you may average 2k and 2 kills with multiple teams there is something else going on. Tier 8 has many newbs with premium tanks. Some of them cannot even drive their tanks and they certainly dont know the finer points of the game that you were mentioning. Many of them camp in spawn until their teammates are killed and then opportunistically snipe while their teams WR melts. And then there are actual platoons and also teams who play together by all hitting the Battle button at the same time. This is real, particularly when there are fewer players on the server. These teams take hull down positions with crossfire. They send a tank out to spot as bait. They have clean up tanks behind their hull down positions. They practice together in the private training rooms. There is obvious team play. What chance does a good solo player have with a pick up group of Tier 8 newbs against these teams? But I think the point you are trying to make here is that it not just about MM. This is obviously true but MM is a big factor. As Eddie Izzard once pointed out, the NRA say "guns dont kill people, people kill people" but then he goes on to say that he thinks guns have something to do with it. Likewise with MM. If WOTB is a team sport, MM is the code that makes the teams. The new MM is supposed to be grouping newbs with under 5k battles in lower skill battles. The higher level players will be playing other higher level players more. Less baby duck newbs to farm. The higher level players are already worried about this. Meanwhile another thing MM does is to give better teams (and better RNG?) to players with new premium tanks. This was documented in the WG patent that came out. Part of getting newbs hooked on the game. MM is a huge part of the game.

[@JustAPenguinPlayingBlitz]

Also - does one team have to win? And the other loose - and the occasional draw? So that’s about 50 / 50 and anything near that ain’t bad is it? And averages need to be averaged out over more than and hour or two don’t they? 👽🛸🐧

[@blobrana8515]

If you have less than 1k battles your mm will be better than a 50k account.

[@ULC180]

sounds more than an advertising video from wg… sry, for my impression… called it rigged or not. i just says that there are more parameters taken in account for the MM than it is officially known! if you have just an idea of game design and know the flow theory you know what happens and why it happens… THIS IS THE ONLY POINT

[@Chris-gn8hv]

Completely wrong dude, the waiting room for the game to start has plenty of players, why does it take so long? Because they are manipulating matching. Are they out to get you? No. They are making easy wins for gold tanks and new tanks, they are making better teams for accounts under 50k. They arnt just matching tanks. Ever seen a platoon with avg win rate 54% vs a avg wr platoon of 44% ? I have.

[@FugitsBlitz]

If that is what you believe then that is what you believe

[@jeffgreen2448]

I think this guy gets free stuff from WG! Lol

[@FugitsBlitz]

Well you are totally wrong on that side. Unlike 'others' I do not use the Press Account and I fund my own garage, so no I get nothing from WG personally

[@jansenblyth4320]

I bet wargaming appreciate your outcome, however since 9.1 I've experienced rigging on a huge scale, my teams are littered with 2 to 6 imbeciles, I've even had 3 afks, very often having 1 or 2 regularly. If my team has a platoon, 4 out of 5 times its the worst platoon by stats. I have to highlight my spawn at the beginning of so many battles now because up to 6 will sleep in thinking its cool...because of how bad its got I've kept records...I had a spell ( excluding tier10) where I was low tier 87 times out of 100 games...and yes my top tiers are the 30 to 40%ers... when you know mm is wrong and it's not always my fault I investigate further, hence why I've returned to rigged mm videos on KZbin

[@Rehunauris]

Also, many people have noticed that number of ghost shells and ricochets increase if you had an win streak.

[@dickwald7021]

i want only want damage. people is the problem. im problem also.

[@yeet-and-delete7257]

I will admit that I have around 80% wr when I play by myself but as soon as I hop in a platoon, bam 20% wr

[@goldpotato1885]

Spending to much effort trying to impress platoonmate

[@rimfire2642]

I don't know what you do for a living. I'm a degreed IT/software developer over 2 decades. I've also been a gamer for 40 years. Part of what you have to consider, and maybe ask yourself, is HAVE I EXPERIENCED ANYTHING LIKE WOTB "RIGGING" IN ANY OTHER GAME I'VE EVER PLAYED? That answer is NO, for me. I'VE NEVER FELT THIS WAY ABOUT ANOTHER GAME. How the rigging occurs is not necessarily by putting certain players at certain times to form a team meant to lose a battle. Something you are missing ENTIRELY IS TEAM COMPATIBIILITY. We all have play styles. I tend to play more aggressively. When I am matched with 6 team members that want to camp spawn, it's not going to go well. And more or less, when I find I am put in a team full of campers, WE LOSE. And I also see a other patterns. For example, I won 3 games in a row in my IS2, the other day. The 4th game it was like I was playing a different tank. Shots killing worms and birds. Bounces. etc. We lost the 4th battle. There wasn't anything I can do... even AIMED IN SHOTS missing, which the prior 3 battles I could hit snap shots (not every shot etc.). I have had 14 losses in a row SEVERAL times now. My win streak, IIRC is 8. I'm a 55% W/L right now. Generally I focus n winning, more than my personal WN8/WN7 scoring. IF THIS GAME WAS RANDOM THERE IS NO REASON I SHOULD NOT HAVE A SIMILAR WIN AND LOSS STREAK HISTORY. Why do I keep playing? Because "tanks" have always been my favorite vehicle in games like Battilefield. This ENTIRE GAME IS BUILT ON GAMBLING AND (LOL) CHANCE. That "the buck stops here" with WG and the playing is simply purely random is total BS. WG knows everything about you as a player. They know and collect and dissect everything you do in the game. If you don't think they "have the computing power" or whatever you simply do not understand the modern world and a multi billion dollar in sales company.

[@severussnap4373]

damage farmers are a plague , they drive away from one shots to go farm another full health bar instead of grabbing the kill . leaving an active gun on enemy team . meadsy droodles hrf jts they all do this and then they whine when their team mates drive away from a one shot when they need help . kills are the most important thing to win , you can win with 7 dmg . think about that , people .

[@numbfinger7137]

Pretty sure Meadsy prefer kills over damage, he once talking about it in one of his vids. Droodles prefer damage over kills i saw him did that alot in his vids where he would leave the low HP tanks.

[@OneWhoKnowsThings6009]

rng is rigged thats why you see annis and smashers in a platoon..

[@oberst1]

better check both teams WR. MM is rigged on that

[@AJR-07]

Do agree that MM rigging, whether it really does or not, doesn't rlly affect our gameplay, but your logic doesn't rlly make sense. If the teammates isn't good, I'm afraid that people will link that to the whole rigged MM topic

[@FugitsBlitz]

No where does it state that we have so-called ‘skill based MM’ therefore it really is a kind of free for all in ‘regular’ battles. That means we can get 20% wr team mates & 90% wr team mates, sometimes however 1 team gets all the good players & the other doesn’t. That alas is not evidence of rigging just evidence of bad luck.

[@AJR-07]

@@FugitsBlitz Yeah

[@calculusantienjoyer254]

@@FugitsBlitz it does state however that if you are doing better than usual, the mm will pair you with worse teams in order to provide a challenge to the game. that being said, i don’t think that is bad, per se. it can be frustrating but the player base would be mad that the game is too easy if everyone got what they wanted with teams

[@herbertgearing1702]

Looking at my own flaws, and taking personal responsibility for my failures? I don't like the sound of that sir, rigged mm and cheating ai is much more palatable to my sense of smug superiority.

[@milanmrlian5228]

2 battle on klondike you ignore you play defend as 3 heavy vs 4 heavy and you absolute ignore med in back -- your ally is6-3 was fool (nob) if no ignore med and cover ass on rock and shot med you live and high possible win and next battle you fear and start camping ! fear kill more as team is no about your team is about honor lead your low tier tanks to battle but you give up -- is easy if you lose many time ! i have other problem - my ally give enem easy win ! no spot no help only flank to all around map ! and you use money now money help you ! 🙂 enjoy chaos noob

[@andybing4974]

Every long term player knows that WGs matchmaking is rigged. It’s just so obvious.

[@calculusantienjoyer254]

but i mean isn’t it obvious? that’s kinda the entire point of the matchmaker: to set the player up with what the AI thinks is right. the game would be boring if everyone got what they wanted and that’s simply not possible because there have to be losers. i don’t see any other way about how to balance the matchmaker than to rig the teams. plus, it would probably take too long to rig it JUST the way the player wants

[@Akaneblaze1345]

Your glazing over the fact That "bad players" are chosen in Your team and it'll effect the algorithm of you're winrate.

[@FugitsBlitz]

If you believe that, then fair enough

[@thercanonlybeonewotblitz7670]

First

[@andymay6292]

As mm is done on tank type and not wr , the rigged mm theory is bollocks , , sometimes the reds are better it’s as simple as that , sometimes it’s my own trash play , you are correct people need to look. Closer to,home for the bad games , and the worse thing is the more you lose the more the rage and bad decisions compound to make you lose more , and there is the eternal,circle, rinse and repeat

[@honeybee8856]

Frankly, don’t need to see a patent to know that the MM is rigged. Playing the game is evidence enough 👎👎👎

[@YodaJediMaster]

The KZbinr that posted the video about MM is rigged used false info, he used the info from World of tank for PC. People who do not play well blame MM instead of looking at themselves. People need to stop blaming the game and think about how they played the game. I have seen lots of players say that they are going to lose at the beginning of the game and yet you win. If the game is rigged how do players with 60% + wr keep winning?

[@FuselierX]

Expected anything else from noodles? 😂

[@Paul_F_C]

Could not agree more stop blaming MM , it is skill based game and it’s you to blame when your playing like a donkey , everyone thinks they are Unicum even when they are 40 win rate players

[@BM-13Katyusha]

Ahahahahahahaha Do you even play blitz???🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤭😂

[@Paul_F_C]

@@BM-13Katyusha 61k games and been playing since 2014 so yes I have

[@FuselierX]

@HOTROCKS let the noodles fanboys keep screaming it's all rigged, they all believe the crap posted on "the best KZbin channel"