RIGHT vs LEFT FOOT FORWARD - Which Stance is Better?

[@minatomat]

IMO, this is exactly what fencing masters wanted. When your attack becomes more predictable, you can land it and also predict the defence of the opponent. And that's why in Fiore, for example, we tend to see lots of plays. Because the first attack could indeed land, but would almost always be blocked/parried. So you thrust or cut stepping, the opponent block, and you execute a play from the source. This is the safest fencing I can think about, and also praises more the skill of the fencer rather than the athleticism of them.

[@FedericoMalagutti]

As far as I understand what you say pretty well, it doesn't necessarily fit with my experience! The more components an action has, the harder it is to land it cleanly. We all agree that a second intention (which is what you describe), namely attacking to provoke an offensive reaction on which a counter can be landed, is a very good action, but it's not necessarily safe, because prediction is actually what it is, it's not that easy to predict what is going to happen. It works after some good scouting of the opponent, which means time spent doing it (and surviving through it) and a lot of experience. Anyway, IMHO, the tactics you suggest can be landed both with the right or left foot forward. Actually, it's slightly harder to land tiny stepping motions while being LFF in my experience rather than RFF, movements useful to provoke. While of course, the LFF give access to better defense once the provocation is landed and the reaction had been stimulated. So, I understand, what you describe works very well, but in my opinion is not directly related with the stance.

[@PoorMansHEMA]

This is basically the entire treatise of Meyer. Lol

[@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns]

Changing to LFF certainly helped with my defense in my recent tournament. Picking a stance that accentuates the effectiveness of the historical plays that work best for you is always the correct and historical option.

[@FedericoMalagutti]

@@HEMA_Fight_Breakdowns interesting!

[@Davlavi]

Love your sense of humor.

[@EriAntTea]

Also, I don't think you can forget the modern influence of sports like boxing and other combat sports where there is a delineated orthodox and southpaw stance. It will affect people's comfort and thought process during a fight especially if they cross train or have a main sport other than HEMA. Excellent video, I enjoyed it greatly

[@bajuszpal172]

Dear Mr. Federico Malagutti, As a fan of martial arts in general, I have been taught and also experienced that the issue of stances, also known as guards should be approached from three points of view, which I only want to share for further discussions: 1- in terms of body coordination - for a right handed person the left leg is the stronger one, and holding the weapon in lhis/her right hand is the easiest way also in terms of linear, one sided coordination of the body and the weapon. It also enables more active, say more rapid movement towards, and away from the the opponent! 2- in terms of weapons use, or tactiques, still holding a weapon in the right hand but having the opposit leg ias fronet leg shortens the distance and helps moving in circle or at angles, which favours diffensife countractions. (see Italian vrs. Spanish fencing, in my experiience, of course. 3-with reference to the opponent - often neglected or underestimated aspect- an opponent taller than us is always closer so a defensive, sideway or parrellel line movement suited me better. Whereas, a shorter opponent is faster, so a mirroring stance, front legs on the sam sid, helped me more moving first away and only then counteracting. With highest respect, Paul,69 instructor of Karate and also self defence.

[@jasonjames9836]

"As Bruce Lee never said..." ❤❤❤ Nice!

[@maaderllin]

Hypothesis: When I was a kid, I did Tae Kwon Do. (The one with only kicks and no punches that has become an olympic sport). To give powerful kicks with the dominant leg (The right one, for right-handed people), we would start with the left foot forward and give a kick with the back leg. But sometimes we could also do quick jabs with the front foot. Less powerful, but quicker. I think having a right-foot forward stance might prioritize speed, while left-foot forward gives more energy, and that it is a matter of what we want to prioritize at any given moment or context.

[@FedericoMalagutti]

Yes this is true while striking from the right, and of course the opposite while striking from the left.

[@BernasLL]

I do find that left stance works best as an invitation. It says "you're coming to me, I'm not coming to you". However, if you then take a shorter step back than your opponent does forward, you're now at a shorter distance, and he has the left foot forward, and you have the longer reach via your right foot forward, and that can lead to interesting plays. If you do it the other way around, left foot forward and take a shorter right step forward than it would take to enter mid-range, you can now take either a more brave right step forward into close-range, or switch stances whilst getting into close range. So, for me, as a surprise close-quarters guy, I often find myself on the left stance in the beginning of a play. This being said, under pressure of an opponent's proper distance management, and needing to regain space in the field, retake the iniciative, I often relent to again engaging with the right foot forward, which is plenty fine. For double weapons, left foot forward is even more viable, though you have to essentially re-train your slip reflexes to match your strong side, to prevent losing your leg more often.

[@FedericoMalagutti]

@@BernasLL interesting approach

[@BernasLL]

@@FedericoMalagutti It works when it works. Interesting look into your methodology, of spending so long on trying to hone such a "big detail" of your fencing. Impressive dedication.

[@elemar7365]

Defensive and Agressive stance is much more emphasized with the sword and buckler game, and it is essentially the same with longsword. Pick and choose according to your plan and context. I personally tend to want give the impression of starting on purely defensive game to observe my opponent, switching stances to bluff him, and then use my real game when the time is right. To me stances are first here to tell a good story.. 😊

[@LongswordRussia]

Gentlemen, let me participate in the discussion! How do you assess the likelihood that the setting of the legs is connected not only with the effort of the start of the cut to throw it from the starting point with the amplitude? The force of the cut also applies to the architectural structure of the position of the whole body at the time of contact of the cut for the purpose! If you hit a target from a large distance, the weak share of your sword will not repel you from the target, because it is a speed lever. It will not very noticeably affect your stability if the sword stops about the target! But if you try to impress the target on a closer distance, where you want to invest in the central part of the blade in order to push the target or instrument of the opponent from yourself, then you will have to observe a stable structure, parallel to the vector of pressure with a sword. Have you ever encountered situations when the recommended positions with the front foot from the start of the cut, which work perfectly at a great distance, led to a loss of balance in a close collision with swords of two fighters? The fact that it works is exactly the same for a long distance - no matter what the leg is ahead, the left or right, begins to differ very much when forced attacks by the central part of the sword in close battle. This is absolutely not important, the right or left leg is ahead, the most important thing is whether the front leg creates a stable position, strictly refers to the direction of the vector of the current cut! From the point of view of pressing the sword, the vector of the stability of the position of the fighter’s legs (points of the support) and the pressure vector of the middle of the blade should perfectly coincide. See how this principle is clearly visible when overturning a very difficult target of 85 kg, a pressure of the sword! Of course, the cut in the near distance is not the frequent application of the functions of the longsword. But it is very easy to see which version of the legs vector better allows you to maintain stability and equilibrium when pressure! kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJvEoHSjbdieja8

[@FedericoMalagutti]

@@LongswordRussia definitely stability and power (while cutting) are an important thing.

[@LongswordRussia]

@@FedericoMalagutti I have never yet encountered representatives of the HEMA community where the force of the cut was based on the lever of the feet from the floor surface. So that the pushing effect of the sword force was increased by the spacer from the ground. To do this, you need to use the opposite position of the front leg to the start of the cut. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nabdq4iAq8aaj9E

[@FedericoMalagutti]

@@LongswordRussia definitely. Makes sense

[@LongswordRussia]

@@FedericoMalagutti Thanks for the answers! I'm not sure if Google translate gets the meaning right, but I appreciate your reaction.

[@franciscofunari2343]

What about range? In long point your right hand has to be farther away than your left hand, by placing your right foot on front you can compensate for that and gain reach

[@FedericoMalagutti]

Precisely. Strangely enough Longa, as you can see in the video, is shown LFF

[@beroulga]

I also feel that which foot you start with is less important with a two handed sword because you will switch stances fairly fequently. Passing steps are very common so you should be comfortable in both a right and left foot forward stance.

[@FedericoMalagutti]

@@beroulga well you can develop styles which not necessarily switch stance frequently. But yeah I see what you mean ;-)

[@beroulga]

@@FedericoMalagutti yaaaayy thank you.

[@TheMissingno]

I don't think there's much truth to the idea that right foot forward is more aggressive and left foot forward is more defensive. Many highly rated fencers use left foot forward or a mix, like Mikko Lehto, Ties Kool, Lubomir Peciva, and Ville Vallimaki. My personal feeling on the matter is that LFF has a higher ceiling than RFF at high levels, and the reason most people do RFF is because it is more comfortable. The fencers listed above prove that it is at least as good as RFF.

[@FedericoMalagutti]

@@TheMissingno we should check how much reactive and active actions they do LFF etc. etc. I am still of my idea anyway, as it is an average.

[@MairsMate]

I don't know why people want to draw a hard line between what they deem "martial" vs "sporty". It is a matter of fact that fencing was most often done as a sport. How else will you train for "true" combat?

[@FedericoMalagutti]

True!

[@gatocles99]

Sports train for scoring points. Martial trains for death. Look at how boxers train... to dance around and test their opponents, holding back until they feel they can score a point... versus how soldiers train... to charge in screaming and attack 100%, holding nothing back. Sport and war are not the same thing. And you will fight how you train. Which is why sport guys get stabbed.

[@weaselrampant]

To me left foot forward is for wide, or advance-lunge distance, while right leg forward is for normal, or lunge distsnce. Additionally, I only use guards with the point offline when at wide distance, while point-forward guards are for normal distsnce.

[@FedericoMalagutti]

@@weaselrampant interesting!

[@Zodd83]

very nice video, as usual. As a medievalist" (and LiechtenauerNerd!) this topic has put me in a crysis. Thanks as always for your PoW and advices.

[@FedericoMalagutti]

You are welcome!!!

[@MartinGreywolf]

I think right foot prominence is a result of sporterization, but not the way most people would think. Thing is, I prefer to have my right foot forward all the time as much as it gets, and yet I spend a lot of time switching stances because I am forced to do so. By what? Well, a couple of factors: 1) Angling around allies. If I am a speraman on the flank, the foot I want forward is the foot on the side where the rest of the formation is. That enables me to hold my spear and angle it to pass just by the last shield guy in the line and impact the liver of whoever his opponent happens to be. It also keeps my squishy organs as much hidden behind the shield guy as possible because archers have no mercy. 2) Slope of the hill. If it gets steep enough, I may well be forced into a certain stance. 3) Obstacles in the way. Dead people, discarded equipment, inconvenient rocks, holes in the ground - all of them happen, none of them like you. 4) Angling around corners - rounding a corner that has alerted enemies behind it is best done with a blind stab or slash going first. It even changes depending on what weapon you have, longsword, spear and sword and shield all have different needs. 5) Multiple opponents. You were right foot forward to one guy but only had a time for a volta stabile to deal with his friend who just stabbed the guy watching your flank. If the context you fight in is reduced to one on one bouts on level ground all of these factors are gone, and it doesn't really matter how sporty or lethal your fight is.

[@FedericoMalagutti]

@@MartinGreywolf makes sense. I would say of 1 vs 1 specialization rather than sport. Because I’m many dueling styles we see this without being sports.

[@True_Bits]

Before watching this video i predict that the answer could be "Yes"

[@FedericoMalagutti]

Precisely XD

[@SteelOsprei]

For me it depends mostly on where you're holding your sword. I use left foot forward for right vom mostly, but sometimes also plow, ox, and wechsel. I use right foot forward mostly for longpoint and left plow, and occasionally some other guards. I almost never do longpoint with left leg forward, it just doesnt feel right mechanically, but I use longpoint and right vom about equally so I switch lead legs a lot. I think trying to force longpoint to be a left leg forward guard is probably just a mistake.

[@appenzell958]

Interesting, I never realized so many people start from the right foot forward. I usually start with the left foot forward and Vom Tag on the right side. Then I usually do a Master Cut to force my opponent to deflect/react after which I try to do some hand works/ hand arbeit from Meyer like Umbchlagen, Ablaufen, Doplieren or Winding. Though I have only been learning for like 5 months, so my style will probably change as I learn more.

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

In competition people tends to lean more into right foot Langort because it's just so easy to do tight parry into a riposte from that position. If they can steal the Vor , they will go for a direct thrust; if they got caught in the Nach, from Langort into Ochs for absetzen or nachschlag Zwer That's the safest game plan that most folks used in competitions

[@TurokShadowBane]

You can be either bladed or squared in either left or right leg stances quite easily (or so I find) and I don't believe one leg forward favors a certain hip position over the other. If you find that you do, it could be a sign of some muscle or flexibility imbalance. beyond that I think most of your points are attributed to bladed vs squared not left vs right leg forward personally, I find value in being proficient in both and switch between them

[@FedericoMalagutti]

I don't know, the fact that there is only one "main hand shoulder" makes for certain differences which aren't an opinion, are simply there to observe. If you are bladed in RFF your shoulder is closer to the opponent from the start, if you are bladed with LFF your sword is even further away than being RFF and squared or LFF and squared. So while being LFF you generally want to stay squared, otherwise the traveling time to land actions (even defensive) increases... Which may be part of a plan of course, but here we are talking the average. While being RFF instead you decide wether to stay squared or bladed, and yes even in a squared RFF you parry in a better way compared to RFF bladed. But precisely because of the fact that your torso can't rotate any more than X while being RFF you have limits compared to LFF, where the torso can rotate toward the right far more while parrying. as the shoulder can move backward and make more space for the parry. Anyway I made an entire video on RFF stance squared vs bladed, you can find it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/borYc4NpoMqBedE

[@matthiasdeo]

Really useful way to think about it!

[@Le_Rappel_des_oiseaux]

Both

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

All the plays from both Largo and Stretto can be done with both left and right leg forward, even when Fiore showed in the picture where he put the left forward in Largo plays and right for Stretto plays. Personally i interpreted this as his ideal position. Like Federico said, left foot seems to be better for defensive actions, means i don't really have to step at all. Either i strike first with an Accrease or i provoked the opponent for him to strike me first so i parry him, 90% of the time the crossing of the sword will end up in Largo because i maintain my distance for not stepping or not too deep with an Accrease, and then i followed up with an ideal play. With the right foot, it's so ideal for the passing step that can remove massive distance between 2 fencers, crashing into Stretto distance, something we see a lot in HEMA tournaments now days where people go into high bind when they crashed into each other.

[@FedericoMalagutti]

@@jaketheasianguy3307 correct

[@Druid_Ignacy]

Rapier, saber and then smallsword all use right foot forward historically. Alfieri laughs at ppl who stand with left foot forward, calls it a gimmick and says its dumb. Medieval footwork clearly has a lot of left foot forward actions for both one handed and two handed weapons. Why it does, is quite a mystery. The only reasonable reason I see is that, attack with passing step lets me finish with right foot forward (good for second intention) without gooing deep down (as I would during lunge) - which is, in longsword something more considerable than in younger weapons. I explore using left foot forward still, and manage to have some effects and have them recorded, but it remains somewhat a mystery for me.

[@FedericoMalagutti]

Yep, I understand

[@thescholar-general5975]

Many medieval and non-European systems commonly feature left foot forward footwork. There could be several reasons for this but a few different points to consider are power generation in cutting, grappling, and the use of shields and bucklers. Using passing steps allows you to use the body's rotational momentum to drive a cut from that side which in turn facilitates powerful cuts. Having a left leg lead, squared up stance is also much better for grappling than a bladed stance. This bladed vs squared stance phenomenon can also be seen in mma, and grappling favors the latter. Additionally, a left leg lead with a single handed sword makes disarms more troublesome because the sword can be drawn back by the hip while the off hand is used to keep distance. This phenomenon can also be seen in knife fighting, basically grab with the left hand and then keep the right hand away from the opponent's reach except while making short thrusts or small cuts. The common presence of shields and bucklers likely also influenced the way that swords were used without those companion tools present. With a shield, always keeping a right leg lead is not really advantageous as much as having some flexibility between both sides. And if most swordsman are training to use a sword with some type of shield then they will likely retain a degree of this footwork even when the shield is not present. I should also note, that the development of the exclusively linear footwork began with the rapier which has none of the above listed features along with smallsword. By the time military saber became more popular in the Franco and Anglosphere, the tradition of linear footwork had long been established, and was the mainstream way to do things in fencing schools which trained also trained foil. However, once some of the military saber manuals do feature passing steps and Hutton in particular, reintroduced grappling and passing steps when developing techniques that would be useful for troops serving in the empire who would come up against a variety of weapons such as the tulwar/dhaal combo. In a way this also lends credence to Silver's critiques of the rapier as not being a fencing system readily useful in war. With all of this in mind, being exclusively linear in footwork is more unusual in the grand scheme of fencing over time and across regions than having passing steps.

[@cspahn3221]

left foot forward is much easier for me due to leg length discrepancy, just how i'm built i guess