Riot Made Another BAD* Agent!

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#Valorant #Tips&Tricks #Analysis #Clove #New

[@ThinkingMansValorant]

Don't be transphobic, history will not look upon you kindly. Also some people are saying no audio... I think it's a youtube problem not me cause others and I do have it :)

[@GuyKnowsAll]

No audio on mobile app it seems but okay on website

[@vaith833]

audio is there!

[@divyanshu_chaurasiya]

no audio on mac.. unfortunately will watch through phone.

[@deem05]

shes no plural buddy

[@itsameekay450]

@@deem05 "They" has been used as a singular pronoun since 1375. Read a history book, buddy

[@highlyevolved4977]

Queue the “I was wrong” video when PRX finds a way to make clove OP 😂

[@joaoalmeida5926]

not gonna happen bud

[@highlyevolved4977]

@@joaoalmeida5926 we shall see :)

[@sonusmeister2325]

I lost count of how many times this thing happened over and over again. Reyna, gekko, harbor, yoru, now clove.

[@008ay.sumanth7]

Ya YORU was literally a troll untill PRX dominate with yoru in BIND.

[@spasmicwaves]

Still waiting for them to use Deadlock/Iso....

[@KeyG0Bye]

PRX picking Clove, Deadlock and Iso in one game just to troll the community

[@fluxetcetera1554]

*for the last map, at the final match

[@regen21x14]

@@fluxetcetera1554 at champs

[@-orychy-8713]

@@regen21x14the last champs ever before game shuts down, bo13

[@nonsense0000]

​@@fluxetcetera1554and lose 13-7😂

[@contentofofflinetvfriends7433]

Against DFM

[@crabs938]

Is it just me or does clove seems more like a self-sufficient duelist rather than a controller

[@onesidedlovedanu4127]

Yep, she's clearly ment to fit in agresive comps. But the guy can't stop yaping about how there are better smoke characters that are mostly better at defending and worse at attacking cause if they die your team has no more smokes

[@lynkaster8182]

she's more like a controller that can entry. No chance she can solo controller though

[@KyzerGHD]

Nah it's just the human way of thinking that basically did a duelist/controller mix, just like iso has a selfish kit with an initiator vulnerable util, but actually worse because clove design is just an aggressive reyna-like duelist with omen smokes that can be placed like brimstone.

[@spasmicwaves]

@@lynkaster8182 She can't solo entry either

[@_Brillo]

They're a controller-duelist hybrid basically. Perfect for solo queue since it's duelists everywhere.

[@neologismus]

they actually made an agent for angel, now he can die first and still smoke xD

[@Im_Ryan]

video has audio? idk what people are yapping about

[@HarishKumar-yj1vu]

It took a bit for the audio to sync I guess...So that is what the comments are about.

[@papabates5519]

don't know if this will be a good buff idea but make the decay orb act like a Yoru flash where it has to hit a surface first before detonating, that way we can have combo potential with other abilities

[@papabates5519]

Or act like a fade seize where you can drop it early

[@raymondleung6522]

Yeah another bounce would be good, I see what you mean

[@tagegraham3812]

The yoru flash idea is good. Make it last longer in the air but I has to bounce

[@bandi642]

i would make so it explodes when touching the floor tbh

[@mikeyeechen1764]

Also it should affect enemies behind a wall.

[@Rachel-yj2ze]

I think Riot is so nervous about making an OP agent that they’re being too cautious with the new agent abilities. It seems like the meddle ability was nerfed pre-release, because it makes no sense that the Dev’s originally designed them with the line-of-sight limitation or the distance limitation. They also apparently used to have the pick-me-up ability without needing a kill and it was changed to incentivize aggressive gameplay. I could see them changing that back.

[@tgnm9615]

Chamber ptsd

[@martinmach831]

That feels so weird, because a lot of devs in other games prefer to release characters that are a bit too strong rather than risking making them too weak, because releasing a weak agent can easily kill the pick rate for a long time, even if they make them decently strong afterwards.

[@dziugazz]

that's crazy, considering the past 20-ish champions they've release in League of Legends were all either SUPER broken OP or slightly OP (I went through the list don't worry). But they decide to release complete dogshit in Valorant like Iso, Deadlock, Gekko, Clove...

[@funkycrawler619]

Balance wise it is always better to nerf before buffing. That being said, I do think releasing new agents strong is a much better release than neutral-to-subpar. Reason being, you can see where the agent is much stronger than they need to be and can adjust accordingly. That being said, I think Riot is scared of another Astra/Chamber scenario where they did necessarily know where they wanted to agent to go into and while both those agents now are fine to a degree (Astra I think needs help), they took too long to address the issue which I think is what they don't want to repeat because they balance around the Pro Scene (which I think is hurting the base game in the long run). @@martinmach831

[@funkycrawler619]

Gekko was the most BALANCED agent they've ever released lmao. But it's also like they have different teams working on different games with different philosophies...but I can see why they don't want to release super busted Agents if they have no idea what direction to nerf them and given that buffs/nerfs are contigent on Pro Schedule, they are playing it safer with moderate releases even tho I think it hurts base game. @@dziugazz

[@gustasyaeful]

I think PRX is the one who's gonna use Clove.

[@funkycrawler619]

Mindfreak already had ideas lmfao

[@XYZ-zn6qz]

ANGE1 is gonna win champs on Clove

[@Bpc8]

Maybe tenz

[@N0X3N_92]

In my opinion, Clove is a nearly-balanced-yet-lacking agent, they have pros and cons in both as defender and attacker side. Clove is a controller and a pseudo duelist, their kit is meant to be aggressive and yet they don't have any utilities to take space, like any other duelist, that's why if you die you don't lose that much value as Clove. The only changes I have for them, that I think will work out is; Meddle (Q) lasts a bit longer before detonating, like 1.5 sec or something, and if it hits any surface it will detonate in a set timer, just like Yoru's flash. The decay and radius are fine but a little bit of adjustments needed. Ult needs another second or a half in that timing window when you die. That's all. All of their other kit is fine as is. And besides, having agents with new playstyles are great, unlike Harbor, Deadlock, or Iso, and Clove has an interesting playstyle and separates themselves from other controllers who can already do the job Clove can't, but can't do the job that Clove can. Previous Added Agents didn't offer much different playstyles, because, Harbor only got more utilities for vision blocking, Deadlock is for more stalling, in which other sentinels can do, Iso for isolating 1v1 situations that are not enough to stand.

[@funkycrawler619]

I mean, you are kind of right/wrong with what you said. All the agents you mentions were pretty unique to what they did (except maybe Deadlock). Harbor has the most versatile smoke in the game that takes up the most space and Iso's kit is still a bit subpar but the idea of isolating 1v1s to sustain yourself is pretty niche and he has a very strong OP counters in his kit. Deadlock is more for stalling, but compared to Sage (and other Sentinels) is Sound-Based so she is more so for stopping rushes which she does better than Sage IMO (the Barrier-Sentinel class needs buffs tbh and her wall should be permanent until broken if its. one and done). But yea, I agree Clove does provide a new way for Controller's to deny/take space and their weaknesses on defense shouldn't be that detrimental and its arguably balanced to have an Agent like that.

[@bob-hp1lr]

Harbor and Iso are incredibly unique. Iso can hard counter an op with his shield and his ult is the best ability in the entire game for taking a site that only has one defender. Harbor wall and cascade do things no other smokes in the game can do. Cascade is insanely powerful for taking space in a way no other controller abilities are. Deadlock is also unique with pseudo-trips and a wall that can be shot through - she's just not that strong so her uniqueness doesn't have room to shine.

[@N0X3N_92]

I may have overlooked Harbor and Iso a bit. I now thinking more of that Harbor's playstyle is that he can flood the site with his utilities. While Iso's more of a counter agent to things like ops and stuff... but still without his ult, he can't do much isolating. I still stand that Deadlock doesn't offer much other than stalling, she's overshadowed by what Riot did to Cypher, which is his trips, even if one of her utility is based on sound. However, despite this, I love playing Deadlock, she just needs buffs and Riot should make the sentinel role more diverse, like how they did with controllers...

[@funkycrawler619]

Oh you're not wrong. Hot take is Deadlock's sensors should've got the buff Cypher's trips got IMO. @@N0X3N_92

[@funkycrawler619]

Hot take Cypher trips didn't need that buff but give Deadlock that buff. IMO a big reason for the Wall-Sentinels being overshadowed by Flank-Watch sentinels is that the Flank Watch utility can both stop a push and watch flank. Now if you give the Wall-Sentinels who are just meant to be good at sectioning off entire places of the map a buff like Cypher Trips, it'd be more fair. Sure Deadlock sucks at Flank watch, but make her stall potential stronger to compensate. @@N0X3N_92

[@thehotd0g8]

Couldnt agree more. Alot of people are saying that clove is "overpowered" when alot of their kit is limited or held back by specific situations. Pick me up for example doesnt last long and only finds value if youve taken a bit of damage and if theres other enemies nearby that you plan on pushing.

[@dragonarc_gaming]

if riot gonna buff clove in any way, then riot would probably change the meddle. This situation did happen to kayo as well when his (its?) molly can't go through object, so probably the change would be reduction in size but go through wall. Clove also got a shortest duration of smoke (only 13s if I remember correctly) so riot might buff they / them / their (is this right?) smoke

[@itsameekay450]

Thank you for making the effort! "their smoke" would be right :)

[@spasmicwaves]

Clove is like half duelist/controller, but no clear strengths and plenty of weaknesses.

[@itsameekay450]

@@spasmicwaves They are*

[@envyjah3385]

@@spasmicwavesbe careful with your pronouns, they’ll call you transphobic

[@itsameekay450]

@@envyjah3385 It's not about being careful, it's about being respectful :)

[@felixo3023]

Are we not going to talk about the smokes duration ?

[@thesilvanalyst6880]

No, because they are 15 seconds. Exactly like every single other smokes agent, except for Brim, whose last slightly longer at 20.

[@felixo3023]

@@thesilvanalyst6880 they do not last 15 seconds kzbin.info/www/bejne/n5itgKpmqqmUjM0si=VFafTg4Tcv313PMg

[@banan9377]

​@@thesilvanalyst6880 no, Clove's duration is the worst Astra 14.25 Omen 15 Brim 19.25 Clove's duration isn't listed in the wiki but in video tests by other KZbinrs Clove's duration is worse than Astra making them the shortest duration among dome smokers.

[@lordofallpotatoes4336]

@@thesilvanalyst6880no, the smokes last 13 seconds

[@thesilvanalyst6880]

@banan9377 Not sure how they measure it, but just going off of this video, the smokes are, at least on the map marked for exactly 15 seconds. Maybe she has a uniquely long animation for her smokes to go up, but at least going by the map it's 15 seconds 7:27 - 7:42

[@gerryramosftw]

nice setup for the "i was wrong video" coming up in the future. i like it

[@nervz]

her decay is prob going to be buffed. Her decay requiring LOS is super wierd considering no other mollies require that, as they just require u be in the zone.

[@spasmicwaves]

It can't travel far and it can decay allies, like wtf how many drawbacks do you need on an ability?

[@DrewSorensenMusic]

To Riot’s credit, they did say something like Clove was made for duelists who need to fill smokes. I think they hit the mark there.

[@hastyscorpion]

As a viper player I am just happy that I might get dual controller consistently on Bind and Lotus.

[@ArturMonteiro26]

Yup. Seems fun for ranked and for those who just wanna take gunfights but are playing controllers. But the kit is bad, specially for the controller role, having almost no util to punish and stop pushes, you pretty much have to take a gunfight that is not really advantageous, except from when you have ult maybe. Although the concept of being able to smoke even after being killed is pretty cool ngl

[@Merc_507]

Bruh, as a controller main: WHY???? we litterally got a duelist a couple months ago, why did riot deside to sacrifise a controller char to make another duelist with a kill ability like huh?? Do you not remember iso??

[@dziugazz]

If they make the Decay Orb a combo-able ability and increase the range in which Clove can place down smokes, they can become a meta agent 100%

[@elespectador1051]

Still the Q is useless, every smoker is better

[@Kryzez]

Meddle should be like fade abilitys so it activates when you click again

[@brk029]

Clove will get hyped for 2 weeks after that people will pick up Brimstone and Omen because they are both better controllers.

[@Max_McGamer]

I think the ult is basically just a phoenix ult except you respawn at the start of the timer rather than the end. When playing against it you would just want to avoid them like you would a Phoenix because giving them a fight is free value.

[@elespectador1051]

Its like ult phoenix but worse, because you don´t know where are you going to die, and that could cause another dead

[@spasmicwaves]

@@elespectador1051 Also you only have like 3 seconds to use it

[@martijn2k]

the decay being LoS only is the most ridiculous design decision man

[@pitta3114]

what about clove in the other maps not in the current comp pool like haven, pearl, or fracture? do they run into a similar problem as the other maps or is there a case for them on those?

[@Avisae]

Felt like they’d be good for pearl, combod with viper but still, the other controllers util offer so much better options

[@FinchDaRovo]

seeing you use they rubs me the wrong way

[@spasmicwaves]

Fracture is prob her worst map since her decay and smoke after death has such a limited range.

[@genessab]

@@FinchDaRovopoor thing, you gonna be ok?

[@FinchDaRovo]

@@genessab hey,Just wanted to get real with you for a minute. Life's been pretty tough for me. Lost my folks when I was young, and it's been one struggle after another ever since. Money's always tight, and it feels like I'm always fighting just to keep my head above water. Loneliness is a constant too, like there's this hole inside that just won't fill up. Sometimes it feels like I'm just going through the motions, you know? Like there's no light at the end of the tunnel. But hey, I guess I'm still here, trying to find some kind of silver lining in all this mess. Thanks for listening.

[@qwex4244]

god riot is not cooking with the agents so far

[@ScripFing]

At least visually they're all bangers. I love Deadlock and Iso's designs so much

[@heisetube8233]

QUESTION!: is there a time limit in placing smokes down after death or can you hold the ipad map/smokes and watch for any player that walks over your body, as for the information game? Like if you defending and were to die in a common postplant position, could you opt to place smokes and just watch the enemy team?

[@chr1stosVAL]

It’s only like that because he’s the only one in the lobby. In a game u will be spectating ur team not ur body

[@icebear8374]

nah ibet it will replace agrresive kind omen with double controler comp because it can be aggresive like duelist with ult and defend in smoke after death but it will take time just like KYO and yoru to be useable wont be suck like iso or deathlock

[@MysticColorsAttack]

My assumption for Clove: 1: they will be picked on like 1 map to run a double controller double initiator no duelist comp (and then that will fall off really fast) Patch 1: Area where clove can place smokes increased slightly, clove regens smokes (if they don't already), meddle either gets a second charge or also applies a slow, also it can be throw further Patch 2: Clove is still bad, ability costs for all non-smoke abilities decreased by like 50, Improved los checking on meddle (like from middle as well as projectile), smoke cooldown decreased, range buff reverted if it happened Patch 3: close is okay but not really meta anywhere, clove gets the stim thing after killing with their ultimate, ultimate cost reduced And then I think clove will be played as entry on like, bind occaisionally, but raze is still kinda necessary so idk

[@secret8885]

For me I think if picking clove in VCL would be like pick as a duelist (Ex. In PRX sunset comp that got no duelist)

[@EricCho-tz1po]

Omen is way better at entry clove has no dive ability and omen has tp

[@h2o848]

@@EricCho-tz1po por que no los dos?

[@funkycrawler619]

Omen can entry, but his sustain isn't as good. Also with entrying you risk dying and Clove can at least contribute in death unlike Omen. @@EricCho-tz1po

[@elespectador1051]

The problem is that clove does not create space as well as jett or raze

[@roseb0y673]

If this guy says the word situational one more time, im gonna lose it. Yes, all her kit is situational, but the fact that she can revive herself and smoke after death means that those "situations" are gonna happen way more often than if you gave her heal to omen.

[@elementninjas7859]

What if you play tripple smoker on a map where you dont need a duelist?

[@zefix3133]

I would actually go as far as to say that Clove is almost useless compared to other controllers. Her smokes and the ability deploy them while dead are the only things keeping her relevant. The Q (decay) explodes way to fast mid-air idk why they made it like this instead of a normal "I explode when I hit ground" ability. The C is almost pointless and does nothing for her kit. Clove is never going to be able to take over the duelists role because she has nothing which makes her able to entry or create space for her team. The agent honestly sucks. She doesn't have enough utility to be a replacement for a controller, neither does she have any entry or space making capability of a duelist

[@itsameekay450]

their* their* they* their* they* they*

[@LipokJamir-ez3pp]

@@itsameekay450she

[@zefix3133]

@@itsameekay450 I just care about gameplay. I'm not into Valorant lore

[@itsameekay450]

@@zefix3133 Doesn't matter, you're still talking about a non-binary person using they/them pronouns. So be respectful and use them

[@playboikaniiii]

​@@zefix3133 it's not lore is just using correct pronouns

[@Weska13]

You start with troll smokes and you know it XD. Btw I'm not sure about ranked Clove games. Maybe in a 5 duellists scenario that turns into a 4 duellists+clove it makes quite a sense. But even in ranked, Omen, Brimstone and Viper bring so much more to the table that I'm not sure if she will see some plays withing 2 months.

[@itsameekay450]

they*

[@LipokJamir-ez3pp]

@@itsameekay450she

[@inrrazzor2863]

​@@itsameekay450it's a videogame character that looks like a she, born a she. No one cares really 😂

[@LipokJamir-ez3pp]

@@itsameekay450she

[@FinchDaRovo]

yea same case as iso , ppl played it at the start and now mostly ppl don't

[@theotrevisan2127]

Feel like if the grenade activated on bounce (like yoru flash) it would be good enough. The only way I see them being used beyond ranked is on place of brim on bind.

[@kimjongrussel7645]

I get that Riot was basically trying to make a close quarters duelist-type that can smoke which sounds fun tbh. Id like to think that they might find their niche with a few tweaks here and there especially to abilities like Meddle. However Im still not 100% on board with the post death smokes, no matter how 'balanced' it will be. I just think its cheap game design in a tac shooter to allow someone to still be able to physically affect the round even after losing their gunfight.

[@Jakotsu-]

Clove is situational but having refresh smokes is quite strong still . If youre gonna push aggresively like PRX does with reyna comps or even 2-3 smokes theres teams that can make it work. I think Sen and PRX can use the new agent. Clove is not as bad as the other new duelist and you could use Clove as a secondary smokes. Even sites like Lotus that require 1 or 2 smokes max to enter could be viable to have Clove. The fact that you need to frag with Clove to heal or res is not the best scenario but Clove is not bad at all 7 orbs for ult is also something to consider. Clove can do 2 jobs at once and also drop smokes post death which is huge. Also in 1v1 with her ult on attack Clove has a good chance. Honestly Clove is not as bad as you think Clove is. Just like you were wrong about GENG and SEN . Theres teams that can make this new agent work. Comboing Cloves decay is also another thing on Cloves kit. Clove has smokes,decay,res,heal and smokes after death and self res on attack 1v1 . 100% Teams will use Clove. Im sure PRX and maybe even SEN pick Clove up. My guess is Clove will be picked in lotus to take a control with Cloves decay and molly combo and that map needs 1 or 2 smokes to entry. So im sure we see Clove on lotus maybe bind . I dont think Cloves busted but used correctly people made yoru work even reyna i dont see why they cant make clove work specially as Clove can fulfill smokes/entry/molly combo. In ranked atleast smokes wont be the last picked anymore. Out of my last 20 matches nobody filled smokes. Thats how reluctant people are to playing smokes. Its never been this bad. To the point where 50% of the maps i play we dont have smokes. Now atleast i can instafill with Clove :D. Heretics made miniboo a Neon only on various maps when basically nobody else plays Neon anymore. Im sure theres plenty of teams who will use Clove on maps like lotus, bind and some other workarounds.

[@itsameekay450]

they*

[@CanadaManGaming]

they*

[@Jakotsu-]

@@itsameekay450Edited :)

[@renzphd6622]

reminds me of when people said harbor sucks because he's pure smokes, and now harbor is the reason why loud is a menace on icebox

[@Jakotsu-]

@@renzphd6622 100% right. Harbors skill ceiling is so high do. Clove is much easier to use . Arguably easier than Omen or about the same as brim . Astra and Harbor are so high in skill ceiling. I think They/Them the easiest smokes agent to play so it will be beginner friendly . Viper/Astra/Harbor are on a different level i feel.

[@skyifymc2800]

IMO ever since chamber it seems like riot has been wayyyy too cautious with agents being to overpowered. I would prefer it if an agent came out a little too OP than being absolute crap. Like i dont think there is gonna be any situation when you'd pick clove over omen or viper. She seems just like another agent that people are gonna forget about in 2 weeks.

[@fierybl4de400]

he will not be forgotten bro, he is the most aggresive controller, kinda like reyna he used in rank but not pro play. He talks for highest elo and pro play, lower and mid ranks she should be fine using him

[@skyifymc2800]

yeah but she feels too much like a duelist mixed with a controller and like he said in the vid, theres no real incentive to choose her over omen@@fierybl4de400

[@NotAzariel]

does clove look like a he to you 💀@@fierybl4de400

[@OfficialKman5625]

@@fierybl4de400but you can be Aggressive with Omen and he brings so much more value than Clove

[@fierybl4de400]

@@OfficialKman5625bro trust me, ranked teammates unless in the highest elo do not gaf about value. Smokes is smokes, they just going to play the more fun kit

[@unhingeDoor]

I think people sometimes overlook the advantage of aggressive reyna like agents that give advantages in gun fights and such. Though I personally enjoy more util heavy comps, if you build a strategy around the fact that you are actively winning more duels on these agents and losing less for it I think you could make good, team centric, comps that actively take space and set up other players

[@migueltroia]

Sooo basically there is going to be a 3 controller comp with clove as a 3rd controller in Icebox with Omen, Viper and Clove, and then, if it is Loud theres going to be flashes or if it is PRX theres going to be an Iso or Deadlock

[@zeratultasadarov401]

Yeap, she seems kinda something between second smoker and a duelist

[@itsameekay450]

they*

[@LipokJamir-ez3pp]

@@itsameekay450she

[@cmaxz817]

@@itsameekay450 how sad are y'all to correct every single comments saying "she". It has a female voice ffs, ofc people would naturally say "she". Also, she's just a fictional character, nobody cares about fabricated character's pronouns.

[@inrrazzor2863]

​@@itsameekay450no way you're commenting everywhere, scrutinizing each of what people say to ensure they get it right. Are you the pronouns police? Fuck off.

[@LipokJamir-ez3pp]

@@itsameekay450she

[@tateornator3654]

Feel like Clove fits Tenz playstyle so well. He can still be on a controller but also get the aggression playstyle she offers with her ability

[@spasmicwaves]

Omen's flash > Clove's kit

[@dailycatsandgaming3178]

​@@spasmicwavesclove's smoke > omen's flash

[@dailycatsandgaming3178]

@Infinitetreee smoke's are more useful than a Flash. This is literally common sense🤣

[@phoenixjayloni3341]

Dude what you are asking is that a agent be perfect and also be the same as others. I though we were asking for more unique agents with new utility? Self res, a util for entry fragging as a controller, a stim + overheal, and of course refreshing smokes, not to mention you can smoke the area where you died. She's really just self sufficient especially in ranked. We also move into an era where controllers can die and still be able to provide util to either fake or take sites

[@funkycrawler619]

Honestly, I can see Clove potentially being use in lieu of Omen on some maps like Sunset and *maybe* Ascent alongside some teams. tinkering with them on Bind. That being said, compared to say Iso/Deadlock, they have much more viability from the get-go on the Pro Scene but could use some buffs to a degree. They were designed for Duelists who just fill Smokes, which you can def see and I do think they are stronger on Attack than Defense. I think we are getting to a point where Omen's range needs a nerf (especially if Astra is the "universal" smoker, Omen should NOT have that range on plenty of maps) and maybe Sentinel buffs(?) because yea, Clove can't anchor that strongly (even though their passive does make them useful still for retakes) but then a Sentinel should be able to mitigate that weakness. They have a very strong basis, and I do see viability.

[@13a1Vana]

Feels like they wanted to make her a weird entry controller. Idk why you would want that but would explain why she would need a vulnerable that detonates so early. Also maybe a buff to stim would be you get active movespeed without kill but kill refreshes and gives overheal. At least wouldn't be as conditional

[@valclements9849]

Who?

[@bob-hp1lr]

They aren't entry as much as they are first contact. They're lacking jett/raze/neon movement abilities to entry, but they really thrive taking early gunfights since their upside for taking a fight is generally higher than the opponent's (if they win, they're back to full health, and if they die, they can still smoke/ult anyways). It feels like they fill the Reyna role but with weaker healing (so they won't be Reyna 2.0 for smurfs) and with supportive util (so teammates won't be upset about having them on their team). It also makes them a controller that would be fun for controller players who like having aggressive tools like Omen's and want another agent to play.

[@Chambster-zx3oo]

Clove in her own class def aint that good as a controller

[@justaguyalive6762]

rip !! TMV can no longer speak

[@superearth5256]

*They(TMV) give respect

[@philipdawson7800]

Clove does feel like a ranked agent, but I do think, if the decay ability gets a small buff, that the smokes (especially post-death) & the ult will allow them to get a bit of pro play too. More likely with a hyper-aggressive team/player and/or on a map that emphasizes closed-quarter battles (e.g. Bind).

[@jawsomejasper8353]

You might be able to do triple controller and use clove as a semi-duelist

[@bobthebuilderhd6835]

There's just no point to triple controller, omen can already semi duelist better than clove

[@spasmicwaves]

No team needs that many smokes

[@flzemerald]

Deadlock, Iso, Clove, wtf is Riot doing

[@jpm5999]

Those are my mains. Wdym

[@spasmicwaves]

After 3 buffs Deadlock and Iso is still useless and get 0 pro play

[@sonusmeister2325]

Her value shines when the team need to do aggressive pushes and fast delays. She just too weak if the player plays holding angles and trap plays, but really good if your play are based in set util timings in APAC ranked, instead of set pieces in EMEA. At least in APAC, she probs gonna be used as replacement for kay/o if the teams needs more control rather than initiator. Considering people already plays skye and omen anyway.

[@itsameekay450]

Their* They are* They*

[@r1yo1]

​@@itsameekay450 I disagree

[@qas2644]

Disagree.Kayo has flashes,Molly and a really strong knife and I doubt she will replace an initiator anyway.Her direct competitor is brimstone and rn brim looks to be better util wise

[@quietcrescendo]

@@r1yo1 Weird you'd "disagree" about something that's not a matter of opinion

[@LipokJamir-ez3pp]

@@itsameekay450she

[@junaidahmad1492]

I thought smokes after death moved with your team with a restricted range. Why decreased the smoke range and only be able to smoke from where you died. Too many conditions

[@jwlsiee]

otherwise the ability would be broken. also how eould you define 'with the team'? if theres two people on a and two on b, where would you be able to smoke?

[@ghosty6031]

Riot might buff the range and the timer before it goes off they did state they are willing change some few things so not too worried

[@flzemerald]

Its like if Iso had smokes

[@francismagahis9748]

no audio??

[@mahina3985]

make sure your output are your headphones bro

[@aidenarmedilla8514]

Nah there's no audio bro

[@mahina3985]

@@aidenarmedilla8514 mine is fine ahaha

[@lanceshadow7335]

​@@aidenarmedilla8514 Ive encountereed this issue sometimes, i think it just takes time for the audio to sync

[@nanolife09_82]

I am playing omen on almost every map (bind, split, sunset, ascent) and I am afraid that every game will be instalock Clove and I have to transition to other agents like initiators or sentinels to make up for it. As you said in the video, Omen and Clove double controller seems quite a troll... What should I do?

[@ralphrules8]

You could try playing viper or harbour instead, but also just play your comfort agent in ranked, only role that really needs to be filled is smokes

[@nanolife09_82]

@@ralphrules8 While I do play Viper on Icebox and Breeze, I never tried on other maps. I guess I will give it a try. Thanks for the advice!

[@soulzy3596]

@@nanolife09_82with double smokes she’s op . Usually I use a retake wall for the other site and then my orb for my site . They can’t really push a viper smoke and viper on ascent is really good as a a secondary controller

[@walangaccount8984]

That's me lol. I eventually learned to play flex with this instances.

[@nanolife09_82]

@@walangaccount8984 This is so true. I have at least 20 hours on every agents just counting my comp games. I am able to fill every role to some extent (except duelist), but the joy I get from playing omen will be gone for a while. :( It is sad to let go of my main that I spent 1000hours reaching my peak ranks…

[@pj123mj1]

Having to be in line of sight of the molly ability to be hit by it might be the worst part of it. I see a lot of situations where the Clove is going to think the molly hit but it really didn’t.

[@christopherallard1693]

its like a stock, I'm investing now in hopes she gets buffed later. Ascendant pre buff, immo post buff

[@itsameekay450]

they*

[@christopherallard1693]

@@itsameekay450 respectfully, I don’t care

[@quietcrescendo]

@@christopherallard1693prefacing with "respectfully" doesn't change the fact what you're saying is blatantly disrespectful

[@LipokJamir-ez3pp]

@@itsameekay450she

[@itsameekay450]

@@christopherallard1693 respectfully, goodbye!

[@sebaba001]

Clove imo will be better in attack than defense, you just talked about her defense here. With ult them coming in first is quite OP, without ult it's not bad either, if you get the pick you heal and reposition quickly or die and can still smoke post-plant. Same reasoning for her in defense to be better in retakes than just holding a choke, for retake oriented comps like Loud and SEN run sometimes. Imagine having to stop a spike defuse 1v2 and Clove rushes you while the other guy defuses, you have to kill Clove, kill the defuser VERY quickly before Clove jumps on you again, and if Clove smoked before doing that you're 100% screwed. Even Clove defusing and the 2nd man fighting, turns into a 3v1 and secures the round, on top of the strong entry with not so useless grenade when you consider most postplants people stand in the same close by spots. Split - Lotus - Bind - Sunset Anywhere where you combine her with Viper they will be good.

[@itsameekay450]

Clove is non-binary, please use the correct pronouns them/they in the future :)

[@AntiDragon]

​@@itsameekay450 since clove is a fictional character I think they wouldn't mind what to be called. I mean, I totally agree with you if it was a real person tho.

[@ruialvis]

bro..... go to america discut the genders xD@@itsameekay450

[@chr0nic1]

Brother the ability to smoke while dead is alone game changing, like how many time we have seen pros stick defuses just with one smoke on bomb.

[@destrodevil6975]

My idea for a better Clove: 1. "C" PICK-ME-UP: I don't like the idea of "You can only use your ability after you get a kill", and I got a great idea that would fit her personality and the atmosphere more. I would like to completely rework this ability. (reworked) "C" LIKE-A-BUTTERFLY ~ SLEEPWALK: ACTIVATE Clove will become a butterfly to fly around, during this period Clove will see the world in her own dimension, and cannot see enemies (They are in different worlds). Press "C" again to return to normal world, Clove will be back to human form and into the new position, has a long "weapon pull out" delay. This idea is a super limit of Omen's ability, Reposition, I would like to give Clove this kind of ability that also fits her style. The idea of "You can only reposition and not scout in the duration" is inside, while the "see a different world" is also fitting. 2. "Q" MEDDLE -> "Q" SOUL-GARDEN ~ BUTTERFLY SWALLOW Removed range limit, switch decay to real damage. Grenade for Controller? Hell yeah! 3. "E" RUSE I think this one is strong enough. Ultimate "X" NOT DEAD YET I think this one is good too. But I think give her a longer time to resurrect, and a much longer time for earning a kill or a damaging assist before she die

[@theflyingwhale5778]

They/them pronoun messed me up so much, my english-is-not-my-first-language brain can’t comprehend having the same word mean plural and singular pronoun.

[@woahdotoah]

to help with this, what do you say when you are reffering to someone (singular) but you dont know who they are? for instance: 'oh, james? yeah, *they*re cool' its a plural thirdperson, and the singular undescriptive. hope this helps!

[@Grakkagrunk]

The pronoun "you" is also the same in singular and plural :)

[@thereapershow1075]

Hate how her smoke looks ngl

[@itsameekay450]

Clove's pronouns are they/them, please use those in the future :)

[@dreamypupper4080]

Agreed, their smokes look like someone took a negative color filter to them.

[@Chambster-zx3oo]

@@itsameekay450dawg you gain nothing out of this. It’s pixels on a screen. You don’t have to be this serious lmfao. Just a game

[@IDEKYOUANYMORE]

@@itsameekay450​​⁠ Nobody cares about a in game 5v5 tactical shooter characters pronouns. It’s just a cash crab, you think the Chinese company that owns riot games cares about your pronouns? No it’s all just business to bring every audience in the game equaling a higher income. This fking nonsense needs to stop you are all honestly brainless at this point. Grow up please. Clove is clearly a female, therefore she. Take a simple bio class and get offline for a day and you’ll figure out this is all a made up agenda.

[@spasmicwaves]

Looks like it was drawn by a 3 year old

[@WARnTEA]

Clove is better than you think. Being able to smoke when dead is too good of a benefit. This allows teams to actually play an aggressive map default. Right now you can basically only have 3/4 people default and take fights because the controller is forced to permanently afk camp until their team is ready because losing your controller player before the site hit is a big issue. This is why the old CSGO playstyle didn’t work in Valorant because every player had smoke grenades so a proper default wasn’t an issue because other players could throw the smokes when necessary. I also think people are oversimplifying by calling Clover as a duelist. The abilities Clover has is also ideal for lurking, and its not particularly easy to smoke and run in first to a site at the same time. This means that Clover works best in the hands of a big brain player that abuses timings and fakes to get deep into enemy lines.

[@osterhai]

My biggest issue with clove is that she simply puts no pressure on the map, you dont realy need to worry about the ult immediatly since you know where she is and the meddle is not that big of a deal because its not stoping you from fighting it simply puts you on a slight disadvantage that isnt all that big.

[@spencer4679]

Tmv never has friends to test agents with, based opinion tho

[@itsameekay450]

Tmv never has friends period.

[@user-og1rs2fz7f]

balls

[@illeatudd212]

balls

[@dragonking2071]

I think if they make q activate when it hits a ground, and omen gets a nerff, because he is so op in ranked and pro play she can actualy replace him.

[@veroffentlichtesvideozuete9627]

Who wants a omen nerf?

[@dragonking2071]

@@veroffentlichtesvideozuete9627 probably no one. But he is a big problem even more then viper. And defenatly deserves nerf like it or not

[@soulzy3596]

@@dragonking2071how ? destroying his one ways or is it his paranoia ?

[@spasmicwaves]

@@dragonking2071 Viper has like a 90% pick rate in pro

[@marek9741]

If you made the orb ability go through objects and go farther, would she be op?

[@toenyfungus5409]

Mark my words TMV will be proven wrong and Clove is gonna be EXTREMELY strong. Its gonna take everyone a while to realise just like it took them a while to realise Chamber was the most busted MF in a while. I said it on his release and I say it again. This agent is gonna be too strong. (My preds about newly released Agents hasnt been wrong since the release of Kayo so thats where my blind confidence comes from. I am very much ready to be humbled if I am wrong cuz I definetly need to be)

[@bundll]

bros source is literally “just trust me bro” nah but respect

[@spencer4679]

Nah riot has been scared to make any strong agents since they dont want a chamber 2.0

[@pandathug6806]

Even if clove is strong, you need to force a different play style that a lot of teams wont do. Its like Neon being really strong, but not a lot of teams will bother playing around her because of how different she is

[@itsjackson]

(you're definitely gonna be proven wrong)

[@itsjackson]

@@pandathug6806 neon isn’t strong bc cypher

[@genessab]

Idc if they’re bad I just want my ranked demon smokes character 😭 THEY ARE GONNA BE SO FUN (Also, to that person who is correcting everyone misgendering Clove, you’re based af)

[@bretto7]

if you die as last-alive with ult, does the round end if you pop it? or can you save time or something

[@DrewSorensenMusic]

Round ends and you can’t use the Utl. Only way you can last die and use their Ult is if you’re on attack and the spike is planted (round ends with diffuse)

[@divyanshu_chaurasiya]

"They aren't good ?" in the thumbnail HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE WE TALKING ABOUT ?

[@itsameekay450]

"They" has been used as a singular pronoun since 1375, that's older than your mom

[@lanceshadow7335]

RIOT made a non binary agent so their pronoun is they/them 💀💀

[@divyanshu_chaurasiya]

@@itsameekay450 why are you getting salty bruh Didn't had to use my mom in this comment .

[@OBS3RV3R]

​@@divyanshu_chaurasiya aww someone's hurt over a your mom joke, we can see who the true snowflakes are

[@itsameekay450]

@@divyanshu_chaurasiyaWhy are you being transphobic?

[@yuukonnu]

Its a she

[@itsameekay450]

they*

[@LipokJamir-ez3pp]

@@itsameekay450she

[@LipokJamir-ez3pp]

Based

[@user-wh4fx4cn1t]

@@itsameekay450she*

[@WilderQ]

on cloves C you don't need a kill or damaging assist. If you deal ANY dmg to any opponent and they die you can use it. It isn't like reynas heal.

[@DrawAndErase]

I was thinking about this as a controller main. Like even in ranked a controller main plays their agent based on maps, breeze and icebox need a viper so the controller won't play clove unless they're trolling, but a secondary controller might pick her on icebox. I can see it being decent on split, but everywhere else why would I play Clove when Omen is better on most maps and has really strong outplay potential with his kit. Viper is just better as a secondary and even Astra is good for ascent. There isn't a situation where I would reach for clove over other agents in my pool unless someone took my main smokes.

[@superearth5256]

She/her

[@itsameekay450]

They/them

[@superearth5256]

Cry more😢 I’m not gonna call her they/them Her voice is also given by female

[@superearth5256]

@@itsameekay450🙃she

[@superearth5256]

@@itsameekay450did they(TMV) hire you to say them in every comment?

[@itsameekay450]

@@superearth5256 Is it that difficult to use the right pronouns? :)

[@gerald9326]

Maybe they can run clove as an entry fragger with a secondary smoker like viper or harbour and a flash like kayo skye or gekko

[@angel02sanchez]

When he said that they are good in rank I sighed in relief. I just want to play the duelist cosplaying a controller tbh

[@cristianmartin3706]

Its just a brimstone that is pink . But i feel when it gets buff a bit will be interesting

[@xenocade516]

Riot has been so overly scared of another OP agent ever since chamber, they need to lose that mindset and make new agents that don't actually put you in a disadvantage just for picking them, new agents should be slightly overpowered compared to others of their class just so they actually become a part of the game, Iso and Deadlock don't even feel like they're an option ever since they were first released, while Gekko has only really achieved a bit of popularity by replacing Skye in a lot of comps, while Harbor was only really ever consistently picked back during Lock:In, he's the least picked agent in ranked and very unpopular in pro play too by now... please Riot, I just want an agent that actually has an impact on the game and isn't in discussion for only being viable in ranked, if any. Ever since 2022 the meta has felt so stale, it's just horrendous!

[@msposite]

Why doesn't the metal throw as far as raze nade. So weird

[@silasfaath4656]

Maybe give her 2 stim abilities and make them independent, so she doesn't need a kill/Assist, reduce the healing so it's not too strong The meddle ability should bounce once and then pop when it hits a wall the second time. It should also go through walls imo

[@itsameekay450]

them*

[@silasfaath4656]

​@@itsameekay450what?

[@itsameekay450]

@@silasfaath4656 Clove is non-binary and uses the pronouns they/them, so they correct sentence would be "Maybe give them 2 stim abilities"

[@silasfaath4656]

@@itsameekay450 Ah ye ofc mb

[@user-wh4fx4cn1t]

@@itsameekay450she*

[@peefe]

meddle is better to be used inside smokes when pushing to scare people who sit inside them

[@Anthony-dy2cv]

I just don't see any real REASON to play Clove over any other controller for a pro level team comp. I have doubts they'll do much to change pro play at all.

[@dreamypupper4080]

Yeah, this agent is for ranked tbh.

[@oztheimmortal]

Does the decay still proc through smokes, even if it can’t see them?

[@TheLumpian]

yeah, it's LoS wrt map geometry, not TRUE LoS

[@PiyushKumar-tq7kw]

decay ability should be like raze nade, in terms of distance we can throw

[@justanother1567]

Oh no you have to line-up the meddle 😂

[@freakingannonymouspanda1766]

What do you think about the maps that are not currently in the map pool?

[@bobbobby475]

When you use any damage ability on teammates it does less damage. So I think it still does more damage to enemies

[@BigPAPA_GD]

0:02 weezer reference

[@YkKani]

1 question is there a time limit before you cant pop the ult anymore?

[@jwlsiee]

yep, its quite short too

[@spasmicwaves]

Like 3 seconds LOL Clove has so many restrictions

[@ranghawastaken]

My thoughts were that Clove will be good as a secondary next to Viper instead of Omen, Brim or Astra (for me those maps would be Ascent (I play Viper instead of Killjoy with my team) Lotus, Bind, Split) because I thought the Q ability was gonna be a great use (I knew it did 90 decay and not down to 1hp but until now I thought it didn't just stop after an amount of metres like a Pheonix Molly) so I agree that because even that ability is very limited and situational Clove is not that good in a team, I was ready to look over her Ult being very situational and let's be honest the C pretty much being useless cause the smokes are decent and until now I thought the Q would be of good use but that rangelimit is disappointing

[@bluefirephoenix397]

My problem with close is meddle you need to be in line of sight to get affected overall clove is my ideal agent since I always regret playing some agent like I need to fight cause my duelist don't fight and entry which lead me to low health and regret using an agent with no ability or a bad controller who don't know where to smoke

[@bluefirephoenix397]

Also I don't need lineup to use meedle just buff it so that it's no longer need to be in line of sight and her smoke duration should be atleast 20 seconds cause that's only it's smoke ability and buff it a little bit where you can know there's enemy hiding in your smoke

[@dziugazz]

Clove Buff Patch Notes To Make Them Meta (or at least good): Meddle (Q): - Increased the range it can be thrown. - Doesn't explode mid-air, but once it hits an obstacle. Pick-Me-Up (C): - If Clove is full HP, grants a temporary shield that negates one projectile damage instead (like Iso's shield). Ruse (E): - Increased the range at which the smokes can be placed by 20%.

[@handler--..1673]

Good changes but that would make iso completely irrelevant and useless

[@dziugazz]

@@handler--..1673 he always was

[@funkycrawler619]

I mean, personal hot take is the Pick-Me Up is fine for how it functions and that would just be an Iso nerf which I don't think is needed. I think the Meddle being buffed is fair, and maybe the duration of their ult, but otherwise its fine. I don't think the smoke range needs a buff in fact, I'd argue Omen may need a range nerf instead.

[@flashfire1259]

I kept saying why do i want to play clove over omen? He has a flash and a tp? But clove just has pray for her teammates or dry peak with her teammates

[@alisaad679]

The only thing weak about her is the decay, its a very weird ability with the timed explosion

[@itsameekay450]

Clove's pronouns are they/them, please use those in the future :)

[@SkorpionYassine]

​@@itsameekay450 Bro nobody cares, ur everywhere damn

[@abyanramadhaniavianto5382]

but fr tho, I think clove is more duelist than iso. at this point iso is just initiator with extra steps

[@sigma7249]

Yeah, mb Clove and Iso were the agents created for ranked, but I still dont see many people playing ISO tbh, Clove aint better than any smoker or duelist, so in kinda rough spot

[@-TwT]

audio is fucked btw

[@Taran_Singh-rh2nj]

I agree with the damage ability that it is bad, and I think that it might not even be worth buying but I do think that you trashed on her overheal too much. I think it will be very viable