Rise and Fall Of Ancient Israel with Prof. Israel Finkelstein. Ep19: The Patriarchs: The Jacob Cycle

[@miriamkellner1112]

Excellent series...Dr. Finklestein makes the history so clear

[@PabloAlvestegui]

I was ready to hear the stories of all the Patriarchs today. lol. Thanks for these videos. Can't wait for the next.

[@pammartinez6962]

Thank you to Kedem. Your channel is one of few whose learnings I trust from out of the sea of videos in You Tube. May our God be the center and He be with you in this endeavor of light! Shalom!

[@whycantiremainanonymous8091]

On Jacob and the other Patriarch stories, what about the clash between a settled and nomadic way of life? The patriarchs are described as nomads. The story of Jacob's two wives, one named "cow" (Lea) and the other named "sheep" (Rachel), is especially relevant, because sheep were associated with a more nomadic lifestyle, while cattle moves more slowly. This feels somewhat earlier, actually fits Finkelstein's description of conditions during Iron 1 in previous talks.

[@devgirl7208]

This conflict between nomads & farmers appears as Esau versus Jacob.

[@Achill101]

​@devgirl7208 - could you tell what you see as farmer-nomad conflict in the story of Jacob and Esau?

[@Achill101]

​@@devgirl7208 - I know now only of the Abel/Cain story as example for nomad/farmer conflict.

[@devgirl7208]

@Achill101 oh, I meant how Esau was the hunter and Jacob was the shepherd (some versions say he was quiet and lived in tents). Jacob eventually "winning" was the Biblical author's way of saying the nomadic life has to be rejected

[@Achill101]

@devgirl7208 - thanks. I hadn't heard that interpretation before (rejection of nomadic life).

[@ciarandoyle4349]

This is the most gripping "what happened next" thriller series I've seen in a long time. I can't wait to find out what does happen next.

[@KEDEMChannel]

Thank you 🙏 😊

[@bobstine3785]

Can Dr. Finkelstein's views be reconciled with the Documentary Hypothesis of the formation of the Pentateuch?

[@noamsalzstein7570]

😊🇧🇷

[@giffica]

He really bends over back to lie, at every chance he gets, just to support his theory a priori. "Between 1986 and 1988, the first remains of the MB palaces were discovered near the spring of Ein Shefa, along with a contemporaneous residential area. The portion of the palace initially excavated included a 10 by 10 metres (33 by 33 ft) hall, with a Minoan-style decorated plaster floor. The style of the floor is closest to what is referred to as the 'Cretan-Theran Late Minoan IA' tradition of wall painting. They also found more than 2,000 Aegean-style painted plaster fragments." No Philistines in the levant? Then how come there is tons of Aegean ware in Israel, at Tel Kabri, exactly where the Torah places Philistines during the Patriach era? Absence of evidence, meaning just cause the GREAT FINKELSTEIN doesn't know, and claims he does, is not evidence of absence.

[@Achill101]

The presence of Aegean trade goods alone is not evidence of Aegean people. The Bronze Age was also a period of good trade connections between the kingdoms of the Eastern Mediterranean and Mesopotamia, and goods could be traded far and wide. The Bronze Age Collapse ended this. . . . But a KZbin comment section is hardly the best place to solve academic controversies (if there even is one). Please point us to the academic papers that discuss the presence of Philistines in Canaan before the Bronze Age Collapse.

[@giffica]

@@Achill101 Not even remotely true. You claiming there was "trade connections" proves the Greeks lived there, this is an inane argument. You just proved yourself wrong lol

[@Achill101]

@@giffica - lol is not an argument. Any papers to point to?

[@giffica]

@@Achill101 Why would a research paper matter? What would that show? Researchers have nothing to do with theory.

[@Achill101]

@giffica - research papers are the way data reach the public discussion: How were the data collected? Do they show what the researchers claim they show? And data are needed to decide the question if Philistines were in Canaan before the Bronze Age Collapse. . . . My guess is No, they were not. I've read about the Bronze Age Collapse and the Peleset and how it's scholarly consensus that they settled in Canaan and became the Philistines. For example, researchers found Aegean pottery in layers after 1100BC where there was none before. . . . Now, the scholarly consensus could be wrong, but it would need new data or better interpretations in research papers to correct the consensus.

[@WagesOfDestruction]

I am not convinced by this guy's theories.

[@WagesOfDestruction]

@7.2 You're suspicions are right that I'm no expert. I'm someone who has done a fair amount of independent reading on this topic over the years. While I respect Professor Finkelstein's scholarly efforts,, some of his specific theories are not convincing to me personally.

[@Achill101]

​@@WagesOfDestruction - I'm interested in what your specific doubts are about Finkelstein's theories. (I wouldn't call them theories but Informed Speculations.) Could you share some of your doubts?

[@WagesOfDestruction]

@@Achill101 i think much of his theories depend on his personal views not facts, having said that there is now some very important developments that I think will soon have a significant bearing on this kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYu4YXuVach7Zs0