Best Crossover Kayak? - Dagger Katana 10.4

[@dinksawarenessadventure2535]

Great videos my wife and I are getting ready to get into kayaking thank you for all your help in the videos

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Thanks DAA! Enjoy the journey!

[@markmartello]

After a couple swims I opted for a float bag in front of the foot bulkhead. It makes recovery faster.

[@davidgoodenough2912]

I've done the same with my 10.4 makes a huge difference!

[@hike-bike-paddle-and-drone]

Opted for the same on the LL Remix XP! Watershed also makes great inflatable triangular storage bags that fit nicely up there when camping.

[@davebishop2566]

I have a Jackson Karma Traverse. From what I’ve seen the hull looks the same as A Jackson Gnarvana. Doesn’t have the rocker. It was designed for multi day trips through the Grand Canyon. I bought it for a do it all boat. I figured it would be perfect for multi day trips on the Arkansas river from Leadville to Canon City. It has all the same outfitting as all Jackson’s have. The stability is unreal. I’ve never rolled it except for roll practicing. It rolls easier than you would think. I dig it.

[@jsfeinsmith]

I added that several days after I bought my Katana. I don't care to have my yaks sucked under.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Right on Mark, never a bad idea.

[@LeeEnfieldLB]

Awesome review, Pete. The wife and I both have these kayaks. Hers is a 9', and she kicks my butt on flat water against my 10'-4". The 9' is narrower, and it makes a huge difference. I can't wait to see your camping trips with these.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Right on Lee! My take on the two sizes (forgot to include that in the review) is that the 9.7 is so close to a ww boat in size that it minimizes the advantages of the design while performance is still diminished compared to a regular ww boat. Rather than the 9.7, I would just stay in my full sized ww boat (flying squirrel 95) and keep the performance up. Once you go to the 10.4, you get all the extra room and payload capacity.

[@davebishop2566]

You should compare it to a Jackson Traverse. Your boat has no chines. The Jackson hull looks identical to the Gnarvana. Perhaps the skeg on the Dagger is bigger but obviously the Jackson has one and works great. I have never had the hatch cover implode on my Jackson so never felt I needed the hard hat thing. The Jackson is incredibly stable and while practicing rolling it’s difficult to get it to capsize. It is easy to roll though. I haven’t ever paddled a boat without chines so I can’t compare the carving ability of the dagger. The Jackson Traverse May get pushed more because of the chines in big water but I enjoy paddling my boat. The stability is off the chain and for me having a loaded boat in big pushing current builds confidence and the ability to carve and surf makes my big boat fun. Love your videos as always.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

For sure! That would be a fun head to head!

[@davidmodeland429]

I love my katana! We often have flat-water to paddle before we get to the whitewater here in northern Saskatchewan, Canada so having a white water boat with a drop down skeg is incredibly helpful. The storage is also very nice as one is inclined to want to push deeper and stay longer when out in this beautiful landscape.

[@LeeEnfieldLB]

You paddling the Churchill, just wondering if you've been up to Barker Island? I have a Katana too and love it. I'm also from Sk. Lived in the northeast most of my days and know the area well. Out in Quesnel BC now but really miss the Sk North.

[@davidmodeland429]

@@LeeEnfieldLB that's exactly where I'm talking about haha. We have a family Cabin at Missinipe, so Otter rapids ( which you can access by car) then up Devils Lake to Barker lake and the white water playground. And beyond too really. The whole area has endless possibilities depending on skill set. Though, I need to find a better way to Portage a kayak haha. I seen a thing called a Ka-yoke online but it wasn't available anywhere I could find.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Right on David! I need to get up in your backyard soon!!

[@davidmodeland429]

@@RiverKingsKayak please let me know when you do!!! I'll save you $1200 and guide you myself 👍

[@adulfdabo898]

Thank you for being that quick with doing a video! I bought a 15 yo Lettmann Olymp 335 in brandnew condition. It's basicly an stretched white water boat (10'5") and I love it, eventhough it's missing all the extra features. So I will have to "customize" it for my needs.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Thanks for the suggestion BD!

[@SabinaHP]

You helped my final decision along; I picked up a Katana 9.7 . Looking forward to growing into it and do it justice.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Right on!

[@FeWolf]

Love my Wavesport Ethos 10 , another WW boat they put a skeg on.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

for sure!

[@kmlivelifeadventure]

Great review Pete thanks for showing what it can do! I like how your straight to the point and clear explanations. Cheers

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Thanks Akm!

[@Bundysvideos]

12:28 had that drilled into my head since day one when I started canoeing… lash EVERYTHING in.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

he he he! Indeed!!!

[@hike-bike-paddle-and-drone]

Kool! Does that Jackson hatch fit the Remix XP too? I bought the LL hatch strap kit and also the front bulkhead to replace the foot pegs. Ready to do a couple river camps this next year.

[@WhitewaterOutdoors]

I’m wondering the same thing too

[@tysonsmudfossiladventures3468]

How did that bulkhead work out? i just ordered one for my XP10, had a foot peg snap off the other day.

[@hike-bike-paddle-and-drone]

@@tysonsmudfossiladventures3468 it works very similar to what Pete's Katana video shows. Pretty much installs and removes the same way. I have not been in the water much since I put it in, but after a swim before installing it, the XP10 filled with water and was hard to retrieve. I am prepared for the next swim with an inflatable now in the front behind the footplate.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Thanks Jeff! I do not think it will work on the XP. I am really looking forward to a couple trips myself.

[@desperatedes2205]

Good job Pete. I agree with Lee Enfield, the 9.6 Katana is “fast”. I also have a Jackson Karma R G and it is like a Bugatti. You might consider it for next year’s Go Fast Day.😊

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Thanks Des! The RG is a 12' offering. I have a Dagger Green boat as well as had a LL Stinger XP which are both in the 12' class. They are def faster, but with the same volume as the Katana 10.4, I found packing and utilizing the longer skinnier boats to be more difficult. They are also slightly less maneuverable. In the Go Fast Day, The have two categories. Creeker and Longboat...The RG would def be in the longboat class. I may race both next year.

[@1978JWJ]

I have Remix XP10, its capable of whitewater but is more of a recreation kayak camping boat. Personally I find as many others do - the backband sits too low, that was the reason the previous owner sold it to me, which he replaced it with this very boat, the Katana. I've decided to pass the Remix on to another and am leaning more toward the Jackson Traverse, I prefer the hull with its edges then the Katana's full blown displacement hull.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Right on JWJ! The Traverse is great too.

[@Rockerrobin]

I finally got one🎉 same color going to order the Jackson hatch looks worth it.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Right on RR!

[@DownstreamV]

Honestly might be getting one of these soon. Great video!

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Right on Matt!!

[@mosulmedic7048]

Would you recommend these for someone wanting to try whitewater but would spend more time on class 1 waters? I would like to try whitewater, and really like the design of whitewater kayaks, however, I realistically won't be spending nearly as much time on whitewater vs flat water. These crossovers seem appropriate. Would a regular whitewater kayak be difficult to paddle in flat water?

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Yes! that would be a perfect application. Regular ww boats do struggle in flat water (ie. slow and do not track at all). The skeg on the Katana will alleviate the tracking issues.

[@SouthernPaddler]

Great review! Thanks, Pete!!

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Thanks Dan!

[@dinksawarenessadventure2535]

We definitely have a lot to learn

[@RiverKingsKayak]

We all do!

[@nicholasgrogan3797]

Would love to see you compare this to the liquid logic Remix XP10 they seem similar

[@RiverKingsKayak]

XP10 is a fun boat as well. I just much prefer the Katana for a couple reasons. a1: Katana does not have the recessed stiffener channels in the hull. This is a feature you find on recreational kayaks that actually diminish the whitewater capabilities. 2: The Katana comes with a full bulkhead footplate as well as whitewater outfitting. The XP10 outfitting is not as whitewater worthy and then the footpegs aren't ideal either. 3: I like the eventual hatch covers that I have ugraded to with the Katana over the hard lid system that the XP10 comes with. Overall, the XP10 is a great boat, I just prefer the Katana as it wins out in whitewater performance and capabilites.

[@nicholasgrogan3797]

@@RiverKingsKayak ok, seen a lot of reviews but haven’t seen one in person. No one ever showed the bottom so channels was one thing I was trying to find out haha. Actually finally saw the bottom just minutes before reading your reply. Thanks for the great review and the info. I think you’ve sold me on the Katana

[@jakestech2739]

Awesome review. I’m a new whitewater paddler and currently have a 2018 Dagger Mamba. It has been fun at my class 2 whitewater park but it is exhausting to use on flatter rivers near me in Illinois where the current is very slow between the smaller features I like. How does this katana feel compared to a creek boat like a dagger? Is the skeg very noticeable for tracking? It looks like it’d be more enjoyable to drop the skeg in slower water and lift it when I hit some fun sections

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Thanks Jake! The Katana is basically a bigger slightly less nimble creeker. The skeg makes an incredible difference in the tracking!!

[@michaelcrawford9425]

Thanks! Very helpful information.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Thanks Michael!

[@Evadingmoto]

I bought and tried a white water kayak. I tried to learn to roll but was terrified of it. I sold it. I still want to kayak in some white water. But I refuse to wear a skirt. I have done class 2 in a sit on top. Wondering what kayaks I could use for class 3 without a skirt?? Sit on top? Or maybe a certain model of sit in without a skirt?

[@RiverKingsKayak]

fluid Do It Now is probably the best choice!

[@wisenber]

I have an older Wave Sport Ethos 10. Dimensionaly it's pretty similar along with the outfitting. The rear hatch is smaller, but the storage is about the same. While it might *hold* a couple of backpacks, it's VERY finicky about how that weight is distributed. Put too much weight aft in that stern compartment, and she won't respond well at all. It's a shame Wave Sport exited the North American market, but they did pass that off to Dagger.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

One of my best paddling buds is/was a die hard wavesport loyalist...he has been bummed since they left the scene.

[@wisenber]

@@RiverKingsKayak I've had my Ethos 10 for about ten years. It manages Class 3 pretty well, but it's not as nimble as a pure whitewater boat. Trying to pack in front of the bow bulkhead isn't as easy as your, but the "tupperware" hatch hasn't failed me yet. Nice not to worry about flotation as much as a regular whitewater boat. That being said, most of my longer trips are in a sea kayak. Most of the whitewater around here isn't long enough to make a multi-day trip.

[@CheekyMonkey888]

concur about the ethos getting sluggish with weigth in rear compartment, pack your water right behind your seat and lash it, that usually helps, wavesport has returned to the canadian market, awesome lineup and best outfitting in the kayak world in my opinion

[@TheSpring051]

Great video,although it makes me miss my Katana but had to get a proper white water boat so got a code 😊

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Can't go wrong there!

[@SchaeferYaks]

Mad I missed the premiere 😔 But I'm watching now!

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Thanks Ben!!

[@gabrieleckhart8622]

Got one with a ergo creek fitting. Seems like i can't get the bulk out to store stuff in the front... even not got the case....

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Weird...is the wing nut rusted on? I have had that happen on a couple.

[@gabrieleckhart8622]

Nobthere was non. I did now changed a normal bolt to the wink nut, so it works to get it out. So just the case is missing...

[@souldew1]

Hi, first im sory for my english :D I want to ask you pleas, if you can imagine to use this kayak at the rough sea, near of coast, to the 50-100m, for example. Wind 7, maybe 8 Bft. For some playing and short trips. I had sea kayak, but now is difficult to take to my car long sea kayak-i have roof tent-and im thinking about, if is possible to use this short kayak, i dont have no experiences with it. Thanks, Pavel

[@RiverKingsKayak]

The Katana will be just fine out there to the degree that your skills and experience can manage the conditions. The only downside to the Katana in large bodies of water will be that it will be slow compared to longer touring kayaks. The upside is that it will be much more nimble in the surf.

[@souldew1]

@@RiverKingsKayak Thanks! I cannot to decide betwen colapsible sea kayak or "heavy-duty" ww kayak. WW kayak i can to use on the rivers too, so it looks, with the easier transportation will be Catana better solution. If i can to be able to play with it in the sea waves, surfing and to make short trips around my spot, where i will be with my camper, thats enough for me. I saw now a few your movies and i very like, what you do.

[@alexanderseiwald8592]

Great review! Are you willing to make your measurements public knowledge? :-) I can't decide between the 9.7 and 10.4 (just above 6 feet and 180-195 pounds) - is the 9.7 significantly more capable in ww? Thanks!

[@RiverKingsKayak]

5'6" 165ish lbs

[@mikeburton1234]

the Dagger Katana 10.4 looks a lot like the Wilderness Aspire10.5 in design, now I wish I had gotten the Dagger a couple more features than the Aspire

[@FeWolf]

very different, especially the hull, paddled both

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Very Very different boats in almost every way except length.

[@t6890a71]

Just picked up the katana 10.4. What size spray skirt will I need? Thanks

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Go to the website for the skirt brand you are buying and look for their sizing chart...they should have the Katana 10.4 listed and with the correct sizing.

[@t6890a71]

@@RiverKingsKayak thank you

[@Shiwwy]

Has someone ever tried the Prijon Munga? Im between 3...the Katana, Munga or Jacksons Traverse. Can someone help me please, what are the cons and pros?

[@RiverKingsKayak]

I really wish I could find one to demo...I am really interested in that one. You cant go wrong with any of those three.

[@troybennington3479]

Maybe a silly question. Are the back hatches separated from the rest of the kayak, so if you swim it stays dry or is it all one unit like a regular kayak?

[@1978JWJ]

Yes they have sealed off rear bulkheads.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

It is a sealed off compartment.

[@adamstepic8083]

I was just looking at one of those yesterday. I am close to the Backpackers shop, and shop there regularly. I had to buy a helmet for myself, and a new PFD for my 12 year old. This kayak was on the floor,and it was beautiful. It would be my first boat like this. It has me think. I was surprised it had a skeg. They told me it was a creeker boat though. They didn't say crossover. Is that the same thing?

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Right on Adam! It is definitely a crossover. The Katana is basically an up-sized creeker, but is built with just a shade less full-on whitewater outfitting and features with render it to be categorized as not a true creeker...But still a fantastic boat!!

[@dougk3905]

How does the Katana compare to the Pyranha Fusion 2? Any faster on flat water? Better or worse on white water?

[@RiverKingsKayak]

right in the ball park. I liked the hull on the Katana much better. I dont like those stiffener grooves on the Fusion.

[@troybennington3479]

Does the Grover work in unison with the chair!

[@RiverKingsKayak]

LOL

[@calefackrell8794]

Not sure if this will get a reply. Me and my old man are getting into river kayaking mainly. calm water up to later down the road after we practice basic class 3-ish. Looking for a kayak that I can grow into and not have to replace for awhile. The Dagger Katana 10.4 and the Stratos 14.5 L peak my interest the most but I would like I second opinion on the matter. Any tips?

[@evilstealth6441]

Dagger Katana would be much more suited for your needs. It's the boat I started with as well

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Those are so different. The Stratos can handle non technical class 3 (bigger water less rocks) while the Katana will be slow on flat water. however, the Katana is much better in class 3 and the Stratos is much better on flat water. Get both!

[@LIVE4THEADVENTURE]

I’m a bit worried! I ordered the Dagger Katana and should be here in a week. The kayak shop I ordered it from said I would fit nicely in the 9.7 so I went with that. It’s my first “true” kayak. What are the advantages and disadvantages I will have on having the 9.7 vs 10.4? I’ll be on Class 1,2,and some 3 after rain fall. Any feedback would be appreciated.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

No worries Jeeper! The 9.7 is a great boat too. I just prefer the extra payload potential with the 10.4. The 9.7 will be closer to a true ww boat.

[@LIVE4THEADVENTURE]

@@RiverKingsKayak That’s good to hear!! Thanks for the information!!

[@CheekyMonkey888]

wavesport ethos for better flatwater performance, surprisingly fast for a 10 foot kayak

[@RiverKingsKayak]

I havent tried that one yet, I need to...

[@szymonsokoowski2467]

Theoretically, according to the manufacturer, given your height and weight, 9.7 would be "better". Does the fact that it is 10.4 cause any difficulty in kayaking whitewater and e.g. kayak roll? My height and weight are similar to yours and I'm tempted to have more space for luggage in the 10.4 for several-day trips, but I'm concerned about what it will be on whitewater. I have much less experience in kayaking than you.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

great question! So the entire point of the Katana for me is extended capacity for trips while still delivering a good level of whitewater performance. A 9.4 is basically a normal whitewater boat sized vessel but with the convenience of a hatch and with reduced whitewater capabilities / safety features. So if I was to use a normal sized vessel, I would opt for a standard whitewater kayak and keep the optimal performance, safety and outfitting. The 10.4 brings in so much more room and tips the scale in the Katana's way. If you have a solid roll, neither of these will be any different than any other boat. If your roll is weak and temperamental, the volume may expose the weakness in technique (feel more difficult). I have found the 10.4 to be more than agile enough to handle everything I have ever wanted to do with it. Hope that helps!

[@szymonsokoowski2467]

@@RiverKingsKayak Many thanks for the comprehensive answer. For now, I don't plan on buying kayaks for different types of water and now I just have to decide what is more important to me. I realize that, unfortunately, no devices are 100% universal and compromises must be made 😐

[@1smingle]

Love my Katana

[@RiverKingsKayak]

For sure Scott!

[@flatwaterflatlander5937]

So why not a Karma Traverse?

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Also a great boat! Can't go wrong either way!

[@brettkovak6344]

I just bought one! The guy bought it brand new and only paddled it twice and I got it for 600 bucks!

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Right on Brett!

[@chrisb3976]

If it only had a console like whats on the old town loon or wilderness systems.

[@RiverKingsKayak]

It wouldn't really work well. This boat is more geared to performance and being skirted in for true whitewater capabilities. The consoles are really for recreational kayaks that will not be needing to deliver the same high level of performance. Those consoles are handy though in the right situation. What the Katana does have is a glove box inside the boat located between the legs on the step out pillar. On my last overnighter, I made great use of that feature. So, not a bad compromise I suppose! Thanks Chris!!

[@robertlee605]

Not bad in the water, but the thing weighs a ton. If you have to portage much, you’ll hate it quickly!

[@RiverKingsKayak]

It is def a little heavy on the shoulder, but I that transfers into being a tank on the water. Super solid boat.

[@troybennington3479]

Ok so forget last question, 😜

[@RiverKingsKayak]

LOL LOL!!

[@troybennington3479]

So no small children in the bungees got it

[@RiverKingsKayak]

LOL

[@ShaylockDalvengyr]

Ive recently moved to the Raleigh area and am very interested in paddling NC. I have a moderate amount of experience paddling when I lived in Missouri. Where would you recommend taking my wife and teenagers on their first NC Kayak camping trip? @RiverKingsKayak

[@RiverKingsKayak]

Lillington to Erwin on the Cape Fear river. You can camp in Raven Rock State Park. There will be some rapids but can be navigated without too much difficulty. For less rapids and a more relaxed scenic trip. The new river in NC Camping in the boat in sights at New River State Park. New River. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nXiniWCYZpqjeMU Cape Fear. kzbin.info/www/bejne/foTQiJd7pJmqgNk

[@canajian]

👋😎👍