Rivian Standard LFP Battery Pack Charging Curve First Look! 0-100% DC Fast Charging Test

[@cmdrant]

I took delivery of the Gen2 standard battery pack 2 weeks ago, I have been impressed by the range of the LFP battery for daily usage.

[@AustinFerguson]

what are you seeing for range?

[@cwang9915]

@@AustinFerguson I have the Gen 2 Standard LFP, indicated range at 100% is 263. I think it was 271 when i picked up. Which is higher than what Rivian says is the range

[@AustinFerguson]

@@cwang9915 have you done a road trip yet? How far was the longest drive and % before charging.

[@cwang9915]

@@AustinFerguson have not, it has 62 miles on it still. I've mainly been driving my X Plaid around town due to it having better efficiency. I'm only taking the R1S if I need the space. I'm hoping for the charging curve to be much better as the R1S will be my Mammoth mountain snow vehicle and prior R1S only got like 1.6 mi/kw

[@BillyONeal]

Rivian shows rated range that doesn’t account for conditions sadly. You have to look at real efficiency averages for the kind of driving you’re doing and multiply by pack size

[@WillProwse]

Similar to plaid pack charge curve. Not bad. Less peak but stays strong till 40%. Really awesome considering it's LFP. Nice data

[@SpencerPOsborn]

Haha interesting that my favorite solar channel crosses paths with my favorite EV channel.

[@erikkuhlemeyer9402]

@@SpencerPOsbornright! That’s what I thought

[@rcpmac]

Hey Will! Good to see you here.

[@brandenflasch]

LFP rocks for most EVs

[@PJWey]

Amazing what is possible with glorified rust. Love my LFP MG4 ☺️

[@ledzeppelin1212]

Love my LFP Tesla...but I'm curious. For which EVs does LFP NOT rock?

[@chidorirasenganz]

💯

[@chidorirasenganz]

@@ledzeppelin1212 performance ones

[@ledzeppelin1212]

@@chidorirasenganz Still rocks, just not as hard as NMC 😉

[@davidbaker9943]

Thanks to everyone especially Chris! I’ve been waiting for this information and so far it’s looking good.

[@darwking8188]

Chris quote of the day "oh boy". Lol. That's how I feel trying to live the Out of Spec life

[@davidbaker9943]

lol agreed

[@berthogendoorn2133]

Thanks Chris, your efforts are very much appreciated!

[@jambaman916]

I had a mobile tech worker told me that all Gen2 large packs are software locked MAX packs. He said it's easier on Rivian on making just 2 batteries, LFP and MAX and controlling it through software, rather than build a different pack for all different sizes. Which makes sense to me. But who knows, but I do think this makes the most sense.

[@battousaihimura]

@jambaman916 maybe at launch, but soon it will be just lesser modules. Rivian isn't just gonna carry on adding deadweight modules at a premium for them. It worked for Gen1 Standard+, speaking of which, that would be the best Nickel based pack that would really outlast it's large/max siblings

[@supergeek02468]

From the TeslaFi/RivianFi graph we can see approximate charge times 6:59 : 0-50% - 23 minutes 0-80% - 35 minutes

[@GraysonCarr]

The 0-70 (probably similar to 0-80) seems like about 30 minutes. The 0-50 looks more like 19 minutes to me?

[@supergeek02468]

⁠@@GraysonCarrthe timestamp is 6:59 . We only have 40% and 80% scale bars, so 70 was a bit hard to approximate

[@GhostedGladiator]

Chris the MVP.

[@keithmcdonnell4485]

Thumbs up to Chris!

[@jswaag1337]

Really excited you shared this. Cant wait for even more tests once you get your hands on one of these. Thanks Chris, Branden, and Kyle!

[@iamnid]

Thanks! I've been waiting for this video. EDIT: I can't wait until you get an R1S LFP to run through all of the standard tests. I think it's the one I'm going to buy in the next few months.

[@wtmayhew]

Thank you. It is great to see Rivian making good vehicles and adopting new technology quickly for being such a young company. I still don’t like Rivian and Tesla releasing semi beta products for sale, though Rivan vehicles seem less beta than a typical new Tesla product. I can somewhat forgive the LFP battery situation because crowd sourced data is instrumental to fine tune the charging curve.

[@itsajeepthing82]

Thanks Chris hope to see more of your R1S . I have a standard pack on order as well Cant wait to see a standard pack run the Rustic Ring

[@pauld6967]

Thanks Chris for helping.

[@pennyharris446]

My dream garage includes a Rivian R2.

[@rcpmac]

I also reserved one 30 minutes into Rivian’s reveal

[@boilerdown1]

This is so cool that @brandenflasch was able to provide such high resolution data on the charging curve! I hope that you will be able to get this level of detail in the future.

[@davidmenasco5743]

It's nice, in the sea of "hot takes" and random junk that KZbin throws at you, to get some actual data and meaningful information. LFP Rivian is where it's at.

[@ChaimLoecher]

I love how Rivian gets the benefit of the doubt - "good for a first version, lets see what a future update does"

[@i1chy]

I have to agree with Tom. I own an older Philips with the same saeco internals. Not a bad machine but it only grinds around 10 grams each time, which tends to create a lighter coffee. Plus, the saeco internals are fussy and will require regular maintenance with disassembly, cleaning and silicon grease. Other that, if you do that they will last with a few silicone o ring replacements from time to time.

[@marcusbeckmann9665]

THX and best regards from Germany (Munich). I love your videos and watch most of them. And no, I don´t have a BMW, but IONIQ 5 😄

[@steve304]

IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THISSS!!

[@brandenflasch]

Really not bad as a starting point! Looking forward to coming improvements.

[@Goosekovski]

I can’t wait to see the towing performance. Not the extreme max load, the normal/everyday type loads. My bay boat on trailer come to right under 3000lbs fully loaded.

[@hcjpbluesky9916]

Winter performance, especially if charging after leaving a hotel, will be worse with LFP. Slower when cold, even if it doesn't have to furiously cool itself between charging stops when hot.

[@RebelRanger2009]

Thank you Chris! ❤

[@AnthonyNardozza]

Side note, that Portland charging station looks amazing, pull through spots, totally hitting it up next trip there.

[@Eric-xp1kl]

I have a PDM Max pack which has been great, performance-wise. 92 kWh usable in the LFP...so maybe 101 miles pulling my camper...that's a NOOOOO Thank you. But for many, this will be a great option.

[@AndrewK-w6l]

Hey, Kyle. Love your content. I’ve learned so much watching your videos. I’m definitely an EV nerd. I own a 2023 Tesla Model 3 with an LFP battery. I know you have talked about how you keep your EVs charged between 30-50%. I wish I could do that with my car, but I’m constantly bugged by Tesla to charge it to 100% once a week. I hate doing it (I’d rather charge to 80% and run it down to 20%), but I feel like I have to to keep my BMS happy. If you owned an EV with an LFP battery, how would you charge it? I daily drive it and charge it once a week to 100% (it finishes charging minutes before I jump in it to drive to work). Just an aside, I know estimated full-charge mileage is not a great indicator of degradation, but I’ve gone from 272 to 260 miles in 17,000 miles.

[@BrandonKipp]

LFP seems super resilient - I have a 2022 Model 3 LFP with just shy of 100k miles - 25% AC charged and 75% DC charged, always to 100% SoC. Full charge range shows 256 miles, and when doing a proper capacity test, I measured about 4.3% degradation. I personally used to be a total nerd when it came to charging - when I had NMC EVs I’d always keep them between 30-50% SoC and would baby them as much as possible, but with this Model 3, I just do whatever I want and the car holds up.

I agree this is the one to get..., the dual motor with the base LFP battery.. similar to the Tesla model 3 LFP ..I road tripped this past June over 4,500 miles..

[@ahbushnell1]

The other reason to go to full charge is for cell balancing. Because the battery is flat it's hard to tell if a cell is out of balance unless you go to a high state of charge.

[@bjackson1975]

The content we need!

[@JeffWusch]

Thx Chris

[@bob15479]

this battery will last FOREVER. LFP is going to get an AMAZING reputation in the long run.

[@Goldentiled]

Kyle, please tell us about new Rivian’s heat pump design

[@daemonthenoob]

I really want to see standard r1t but r1s lfp full range test. Really looking at lease an r1t later in the year and coming from a 2022 p2 long range lease, and so far looks like lfp will have better range, faster charging, tesla network, and about the same performance with better utility

[@darinbrazil5496]

Really wish Kyle would get an interview with the Rivian battery team and really ask why their charging speeds are so slow compared to others, what has to change and why it hasn't changed and why such a large battery has such a slow charging rate when we know its possible to charge large batteries faster?

[@samatwesu]

Time to get all the nerdy info on what this can do at the plug.

[@IrenESorius]

LFP is the future,, 💖🥰💖

[@Mathingon]

Hell yes! Was hoping you would find a way to do this! Can we expect a range test as well? I want to know all the nerdy details so I can decide if I really need the large pack or if standard is best for my use case.

[@jamesoksenjr1192]

Been looking into the Rivian R1S and it seems that there are several 2023 R1S's on the market with milage from 5,000 to about 25,000. Any idea why? Are these people upgrading to the new tech/battery? Are people finding out they don't like the R1S? What does someone want to look out for in buying a used R1S?

[@ayushmalpeddi2793]

Large Pack is a software locked Max Pack. Thats why Rivian claims it takes a shorter time to charge the Large Pack compared to 41min for the Max to go from 10-80

[@jollygreen4662]

I wanna see a 400 mile LFP

[@rcpmac]

Why not 600 or 800??? What a strange thing this crazy and useless range comparison is.

[@jollygreen4662]

@@rcpmac that will be 30 years form now. I wanna see something in under 5 yrs from now

[@battousaihimura]

9:25 LFP or NCA in EVs usually will have some bottom buffer by the BMS. Most, if not all, OEMs do this to avoid deep discharge. Whereas they differ in the top SoC near 100%. Also, if you want good charging performance to 80%, charge from 10%, not from close to 0/1%, as that 1 to 10% adds to the thermal buildup early on, dropping the charge curve prematurely. Remember, these cells are tall with bottom cooling and high current loading when their SoC is low, so a high thermal gradient buildup occurs. So, don't expect the delta 70% (10 to 80%) time to meet the OEM-quoted time when you start from 1%.

[@bwmanarific]

Charging from low state is just to show how longest case the charge is gonna be. If you start charging from a higher SOC the charge time of course is gonna be shorter 😅

[@cyco1978]

Do you recommend LFP in colder climates, they tend to have more issue charging. According to that battery video from batteries included

[@MichaelEricMenk]

This is not a problem as long as the car has a battery heater and you precondition the battery before fast charging.. LiFePo4 batteries can charge with negative battery temperature, but at very low C-rate.

[@miami3863]

Does the gen 2 charge port look like it can be removed and possibly swapped for NACS?

[@MrrQuackers]

Would've liked to see graphs compared to the large and max packs offered.

[@Drewcardello]

Looks like Ford's f150 lightning battery technology is aging..

[@evkx]

For Chris who ventured, bold and bright, To test the Rivian's steady flight, With cells of LFP aligned, You chased the charge curve, well-defined. In labs where science met the spark, You lit the way through shadows dark. Each volt, each amp, a tale to tell, Of greener roads, where futures dwell. Your graphs and data, clear and true, Unveiled a world both fresh and new. A battery's heart, so strong and kind, In Rivian's craft, we all could find. From zero charge to full array, You mapped the path where hope can play. A testament to what can be, When vision shapes reality. In circuits hum, and software's song, You forged a path where we belong. A cleaner earth, a brighter day, Through tests you ran, we found our way. So here’s to Chris, who dared to trace, The charge that made the world a place, Of endless drive and boundless grace, A better world for every race.

[@junkerzn7312]

Huh. 1.25 hours empty to full is just 1.25C. The internal resistance for LFP cells tends to be lower than for NMC cells, (roughly 0.10 to 0.20 mOhm vs 0.50 to 0.80 mOhm) so I wouldn't expect the battery pack to actually heat up that much during charging. They are clearly being ultra conservative on the charging curve. A LFP battery should be able to take 1C or higher charging up past 90%. It could end up being just a cabling limitation. -Matt

[@tooltalk]

that's 1hour 25min or ~1.5C. Further why compare LFP against NCM? Rivian uses NCA from Samsung SDI, not NCM.

[@junkerzn7312]

@@tooltalk I wouldn't touch NCA if my life depended on it. In terms of volatility and fire hazard, LiFePO4 (LFP) is the safest, then NMC, and the absolute highest energy density but also the most dangerous is NCA. I personally prefer LFP despite the lower energy density because the cells basically don't wear out, don't catch on fire, and are extremely robust in general.

[@tooltalk]

@@junkerzn7312 All lithium ion batteries, including LFP, are combustible. LFP has higher TR (thermal runaway) threshold, but all it means is that it requires a bit more work (or energy) to catch fire. And when it does catch fire, it spreads faster and it is potentially more dangerous due to hydrogen gas produced. Further, LFP's degradation mechanism depends on application -- LFP's durability is optimal under ESS (stationary energy storage system), but not so in EV (moving vehicles). That's also why LFP is almost exclusively deployed in entry-level, low-range EVs.

[@junkerzn7312]

@@tooltalk LFP's thermal run away not only has a higher threshold, it also has 1/100th the thermal gradient of NMC during a runaway. And unlike NMC and NCA, the voltage more or less instantly relaxes after charging is complete. The differences are literally night and day. LFPs degradation mechanism has little to do with stationary-vs-EV. Not sure why you think it would. The average C-rate is comparable and as I mentioned at the top, LFP batteries don't generally have much of a problem with temperature or C-rate stresses. The reason EVs (up until recently) used NMC is simply due to the higher energy density. Not the degradation or anything else. But LFP chemistries are fast catching up in energy density and customers are starting to prefer them for safety and longevity over NMC, despite the lower range. -Matt

[@timoliver8940]

With CPO’s now looking at excess stay charges for charging above 85% this calibration to 100% is going to become expensive on a DCFC if you also recommend that the car isn’t left standing for any time at very high and very low SOC and might happen on a home charger utilizing off peak electricity rates. Maybe LFP isn’t the answer after all.

[@tslaten241]

Please everyone can we get more commercials. We need more.

[@speer320]

Need an Electric island tour!

[@LemonSanitizer]

Nice data! Where'd the Tableau go off to?

[@ikocheratcr]

kudos to the people that extracted the data provided in the spreadsheet. Out of curiosity, was it done manually?

[@kevingodwinschannel5340]

I literally know where this exactly is. I used to live in the apartments across from the us bank.

[@chengcao418]

Do we have information on whether this is a CATL or BYD or someone else?

[@4literv6]

Bet anything it's catl prismatic lfp cells. Some tried to suggest it's using gotion cells form the California plant that opened last year. 🤔

[@chengcao418]

@@4literv6 would be interesting to see whether they changed cooling strategy or not, those cells are really tall and if they still use bottom plate cooling I'd be worried about overheating on road trips

[@privettoli]

Makes total sense: why wait for the update and make one video if you can do two videos? 💲💲💲😂

[@ezpoppy55]

Why wait for just one update? Using your logic, it makes more sense to just wait until Rivian pushes out the last update on the battery pack. Sure, it might be a few years, but then you only have one video to watch. Genius 🤭.

[@privettoli]

@@ezpoppy55 I'm joking

[@EdwardBoicourtIV]

16:11 🙏🏾 PLEASE let it be the avant based on the taycan wagon!

[@ΘάνατοςΧορτοφάγος]

There will be an A6 Avant e-tron on the PPE platform, dont think the e-tron GT Avant is going to happen

[@EdwardBoicourtIV]

​@@ΘάνατοςΧορτοφάγος I hope you're wrong lol. Honestly whatever platform they use it can't come soon enough.

[@sedawk]

Very curious to see what the 20% to 80% would be in terms of time. I'm guessing 30 min?

[@mp3mike237]

Spreadsheet is linked in the video description. Looks like 20-80% was ~32 minutes.

[@sedawk]

@@mp3mike237 Thanks. My Lightning is about 40 min for that same range - not bad. I've taken it on a few road trips and it does slow down your pace a little (but its comfort makes up for it). An ideal situation I think would be 20% to 80% in 20 minutes or less. Perhaps we will get there one day, but even with the slower charging of these trucks road trips are totally doable.

[@sandyhunter3948]

What does the discharge cycle voltage chart look like

[@boostav]

13:55 No, you shouldn't. Leaving it at 100% has nothing to do with cyclic degradation, it's about calendar degradation and LFP ages much like the high nickel chemistries at those high SOCs.

[@football0552]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJPZiGaKgc6tpLssi=a3DZUfAIP5d1qmM0&t=1254

[@Jordan_Schiefer]

Where’s the other 2 hours of this video?

[@Yanquetino]

If I'm reading the graph correctly, even though the charge starts at around 200kW, it looks like it drops to only 50kW by the time you hit 80%. Don't E-GMP models retain double that rate at 80%?

[@privettoli]

My ID.4 battery is on the contrary always heating in the winter. Does it mean that this battery would require more heating in the winter compared to regular?

[@DroneManMurphy]

I’m curious how efficient it would be if the hall was the outside space in the middle of winter with the temperature say around 30°F? 🙋

[@j4k3br4k3]

Large pack is probably LMFP

[@MinhNguyen-bz2pd]

After getting my NCA pack replaced with an LFP pack under warranty by Tesla at 20k miles. Yes 20k miles. Im swearing will never buy anything but LFP. 😂

[@chengcao418]

We have Hyperchargers in the US now! Which CPO is this

[@football0552]

Kyle could you share the spreadsheet or what the 10-80% was on this software version? The video cut off the time column.

[@mp3mike237]

Spreadsheet is linked in the video description. Looks like 10-80% was ~35 minutes.

[@football0552]

@@mp3mike237 oops. My bad. Thanks!

[@nicholaskolnik6458]

Will the BMS on a LFP battery get confused on a road trip with 6-10 charge stops if you keep the battery between 10%-80%? Fully calibrated when you start. If the BMS gets confused, then will that cause issues charging?

[@GraysonCarr]

I’ve been on five 800-1600 mile road trips in my Model 3 LFP. Haven’t noticed it becoming confused. I have pulled in to charge with 3-6% five times and haven’t run out of battery, but I usually shoot for 10%, and often end up arriving with closer to 15%.

[@Swapnil638]

Video title doesn’t mention Gen 2

[@gmv0553]

I see that the Hummer pickup outsold the Rivian pickup in the second quarter! Not good for Rivian!

[@DblOSmith]

what!? Electric island is open? Last i was in Portland, i couldnt find it!

[@simson4t]

A6 etron is coming.

[@svenbeckers2908]

Very interesting. Thanks 👍🏼

[@KennethRobinson-rf9wj]

You're smashing it, keep it coming!

[@jaymacpherson8167]

Elefpee? LiFePO4 pronounced “le fepo fore,” right? (Sounds French, ewww) Omitting the O from the name seems criminal given our dependence on the atom for….life. And yes Fe and P are essential elements, tho we can last longer than 5 to 6 minutes without them. Thx Chris.

[@leebacon3432]

Kyle I dbl dawg dare u to wear sumthin other than a long sleeve hoodie!

[@honesty_-no9he]

Lithium Ferro Phosphate.

[@markrichards9792]

75 minutes for 100kWh ? very disappointing again to me.

[@grapsorz]

how can you recommend this without knowing the -20c to -30c usage experience? we had cars not manage to charge "at all" last winter as they had a bad battery heater system.

[@j4k3br4k3]

Thats just a super basic cc-cv profile.

[@aperitifs]

Lfp is heavy , only good for home storage..unless they have matched lithium wh. Per kg.

[@aperitifs]

16kw home storage rack is 136kg

[@demon-mi2ho]

Great from china bad decision for ev makers.

[@stirlingfromla]

Prefer that you don't tell me what you think you're going to do rather wait and show me what it's going to do. You don't have a crystal ball.