Turning The Body Of A Kit-Less Bespoke Pen

[@Lady_of_Ishpeming]

Tyfs! I don't think this was too long, especially if someone is learning a new skill. I think this was a perfect length for a step by step instruction video. God bless!

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Niccole. Regards, Bob

[@georgesboujakly2279]

Clear instructions and directions. Your videos are my go to for clarity and know how to actually do it. Thanks for the effort.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Georges. Regards, Bob

[@nigelfrance6077]

Thank you Bob I'm going to start an save to buy them equipment to do a kit less pen Thank you once a gain you are a true gentleman you said you would put some video up you have delivered.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Nigel, Now to edit the cap video. Regards, Bob

[@nigelfrance6077]

I can't believe you do any crap videos they are very entertaining and educational

[@RJBWoodTurner]

LOL.

[@natator64]

I watch a lot of videos to learn how to do things. Making a kitless pen like that is something I’ll try one day but is somewhat beyond me right now. However, your video is one of the best tutorial videos I have seen on anything. Beautifully and clearly explained. Thanks so much for making such an excellent instructional video.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Simon, I appreciate your comment. Regards, Bob

[@alfredwilliam1184]

Hello Bob, from an old engineer here in the UK, when you use a collet chuck you should click the collet into the nut first, then screw the nut onto the chuck, the collet should be flush with the end of the nut, it is not and the nut was not holding the collet, the ring inside the nut should click into the groove around the collet. I hope you haven't scrapped the nut, apart from that the pen looked good,

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Alfred. Regards, Bob

[@kimbaker8623]

Fantastic "how to" video. This is exactly what i need as a beginner making pens. Thanks!

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Kim. Regards, Bob

[@The1BigDutch]

I think this was a great video and thank you for not cutting it too short. All the explanation you provided was great for an aspiring beginning pen maker like myself. Thank you!

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you for watching Edwin. Regards, Bob

[@rgeo2024]

I’m a bit rusty as I’ve not done much turning for a while but this has definitely got me motivated to get out there and make some pens. Thank you for the great video Bob.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you, I appreciate that and am glad you Liked the video. Regards, Bob

[@Blueboy9055]

Great first part bob, look forward for the next.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you. Regards, Bob

[@Lostfriar1]

Really good video. I attempted to watch a video on kit-less pens a while back and frankly there was so little information given I was beginning to think that kit-less pens were some sort of well kept secret that only the elite few were privileged to.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

They might be, I may have just been kicked out of the club. LOL. Bob

[@jhinze]

Love the video Bob... nicely done. I didn't read all the comments so forgive me if this was already mentioned. After cutting the threads foe the cap, flip the die in the holder so the lettering is away. The letter side is like a plug tap, first few threads are partial. That's why the cap gets.very snug as you reach the relief... reversing and recutting will finish those last few threads by the relief and shoulder. Lastly when cutting the ten On, take the center drill and go in 2/3rs of the way up the cone,then engage the live center. Will be better supported and ready to drill the 9mm hole. I love that your filming these.. your productions are phenomenal.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Jim, I will for sure flip the die. I had forgotten that tip from the class. I also like the center drill tip. Regards, Bob

[@drphobus]

great video, and the spoken word vs machine noise is perfect . After watching this i now want to do a kitless pen

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Stephen, I appreciate your comment. Regards, Bob

[@gilmendoza8092]

Work of art.. sure make it look easy... Thanks looking forward to part 2

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Gil. Regards, Bob

[@LynnLaceyLLWW]

Thanks Bob - I may have to pull my kitless stuff back out. They are so satisfying to make. That stock is beautiful.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Lynn, You really should, I’m loving this. Regards, Bob

[@tom726]

I'm letting tubes for a cigar pen glue up now. I have always wanted to try a kit less pen. Thanks for the instruction.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Tom. Regards, Bob

[@rickhall4318]

Bob, I learn sooo much from your videos. A tooth brush to wipe away the shavings! ingenious! This Bespoke pen(s) are awesome... Those will really make me feel like a real craftsman. Still waiting for my back to heal (arthritis) so I can set up my Penn State mini lathe and beginner / starter stuff in the garage to set up. You say at the end of your videos that "I am always welcome in your shop..." Be careful, I may take you up on that!

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Rick, I hope you get to feeling better soon as I know you will love turning Pens. Regards, Bob

[@soundartisans]

Thank you for the video, very interesting. I am glad I found another woodturner!

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you. Regards, Bob

[@ralphhross]

Well Bob, this is amazing and the process you share is really fantastic. Now I don't have most of the tools you used, but you got me thinking of how I might do something similar with my much-less-broad knowledge and my existing tools. That's a good thing as you give the gifts of both knowledge and inspiration, Thank you.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Ralph. Regards, Bob

[@MrVillafum]

The patience you display really shows in your work Bob. Very nice! If you don't mind, could you please pass along where you picked up the tap and die you used here? Sure looks pretty easy to use...Thanks, Mike

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Mike, Here’s a link to a video I did on all he tools and there is a PDF link in the description with where and how much for each. Regards, Bob

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Forgot to add the link, LOL. Bespoke Tool Listing: Here's Everything You'll Need To Turn Kitless Pens kzbin.info/www/bejne/qWGbd4CdeJeemrc

[@benniewatkins5488]

This will be my next adventure. As always great job sir! Ready to see the rest of the videos.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Bennie. Regards, Bob

[@paulurbaniak2242]

Wow, that is a lot of work for a single pen. But I love the outcome so far! I will definately be watching the rest of this series. Greetings from germany, Paul

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Paul, It is time consuming. Regards, Bob

[@mikeuk1954]

Really enjoyed watching this Bob. Great job and it must be so satisfying. Look forward to the next part. Thanks for posting the video.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Mike, It’s really a ton of fun. Regards, Bob

[@kentlacroix]

Thanks for this Bob, your videos really got me started turning pens a few years ago, and definitely helped me move into bespoke pens! One thing I did find is that drilling out the body with an S bit made the section threads fit pretty tightly. The T bit is closer to 9mm and that little bit of extra space had my sections threading on like butter. Thanks again!

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you, I’ve noticed that “S” bits are a little tight. Regards, Bob

[@bamboomaker1193]

Thanks for the video. Ordered the sliding tap and die holder. Looking forward to trying this out. Thanks for sharing.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Awesome! I want pics. Regards, Bob

[@Anilm3]

Fantastic video Bob, I was really looking forward to this one!

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Anil. Regards, Bob

[@DrLarryAnderson]

Another High-Fives for ya, buddy! Supremely well done. I saw you applying some techniques I have seen you apply previously....and you mastered them, Bob! Way to go!

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Larry. Regards, Bob

[@tommiestrydom973]

Awesome video Bob! I love it. Now I want to do this as well

[@RJBWoodTurner]

LOL Tommie, It’s addicting. Regards, Bob

[@robertevans6481]

To be honest this is the first time i seen a kit-less pen being made, and i see the extra tools you need to make one. I seen the pens online, but never watch one being made and i can say this is cool, but out of my turning league maybe in a few years. But thank you very much for showing us.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Robert, I completely understand. Regards, Bob

[@kwstasantwniou243]

First part, excellent work waiting for the part 2 Bob!

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Kwstas. Regards, Bob

[@wildbill23c]

Great video Bob. Thank you for taking the time to make the how-to video. I noticed you went a head and broke up the video, but I think the length of the video was good. May try a kitless pen in the future but right now I'm trying to get my metal working lathe setup and I pulled my wood lathe off the bench. Cool thing with the metal lathe is it has a #2MT so I can use a regular pen mandrel in it if I take the 3 jaw chuck off. I really need to do some video work but its darn near impossible to do when I'm trying to learn LOL.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

I understand that. Regards, Bob

[@charlieodom191]

Wow Waiting on the next part.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Uploading now for Friday morning. Regards, Bob

[@philburns5923]

Bob i really appreciate your videos! Especially this one! I’ve been wanting to ramp up my turning and try this and your video has helped me immensely! Now i know what tools and techniques to use to begin “ training” myself to do this. Keep up the great work!

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Phil, It’s a rabbit hole, once you start down the path there’s no turning back. You’ll love kit less pens. Regards, Bob

[@CrossCutCreations]

That blank looks awesome, Bob!

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Robert. Regards, Bob

[@kaveman_4242]

Very cool commenting and video. Thank uou

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you. Regards, Bob

[@md.moinulislam9467]

MASHAALLAH khub valo...... This is a Awesome & Unique one......

[@RJBWoodTurner]

😃

[@garyshirinian]

Nice video thx for sharing. As a tool maker , I'm not sure if you knew . There are machine taps available. This way you don't ned to reverse when your tapping. You can just tap all the way one shot .

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you for the information Gary, I didn’t know that. Regards, Bob

[@garyshirinian]

@@RJBWoodTurner hi Bob. I've been watching many pen making videos. Everyone is drilling the blanks with a long drills. In tool making, we use spotting drills. They are short and that makes them not to flex. Where you can drill with that first, then you can continue with a longer drill. It will guide the drill by the OD. This way your drill is guided. And will help to have a straight hole . Hope its helpful. You can find those drills at industrial supply stores .

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Gary. Regards, Bob

[@dr.richardhigginbotham4073]

Hello, I really enjoyed this video and the one on turning the cap. How would you go about putting a clip on the cap?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

I’d make the cap a little longer. Then turn down a tenon between the cap and the end. Part it off at the cap end. Thread the tenon with a die, drill a hole in the cap and thread it with a tap. You may have to turn a small recess in the cap to seat the clip into. Regards, Bob

[@johnhubler5905]

Hi Bob. Thanks so much for making this video series. I was hoping you might be able to give me a little guidance here. I have been following your videos as closely as possible. I have purchased all of the same tools that you have recommended in your list and am using the same brand tap & die, holder, etc. Unfortunately, I am really struggling with the outer threads. I turn my tenon down to 13mm, but, at that size, my die seems to just cut up the blank, and does not leave clean threads, at all. I have a lot more luck if I go slightly below 13mm (at ~12.7 - 12.9mm), but unfortunately, when I do that, then the threads are too small to properly screw into a cap with a M13x.8 thread. I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be my digital calipers, which only shows 1 decimal place which prevents me from knowing if the 13.0mm that it displays is 13.01. or 13.09mm. With that being said - threading has just been really hit or miss for me. How much tolerance is there for size discrepancies, and are there any other tips you might be able to offer, to help me get better results?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Hello John, Purchase a cheap 13mm box wrench. Sharpen the shorter side. Turn down close then use the wrench for a perfect 13mm tenon every time. Regards, Bob

[@jurgenwartmann6584]

Hi Bob, I truly appreciate your video about the kitless blank and I'm looking forward to the second part of it. Here's one comment on your work process. When you use the collet chuck I noticed you did insert your workpiece in there before fitting the nut over it. That way the collet does not mount properly to the nut. It's better to put the collet into the nut first, then fill it with the workpiece so that you have more threads of the collet chuck to be used. Maybe you're doing it your way on purpose. I feel it's not using the collet chuck to it's full value. BTW it's a beautiful blank. :-)

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Jürgen, This is my first experience with the collet chuck so I didn’t know how to use it properly. The second video will be more of me using it wrong since I already filmed the cap. I will correct this in the final video. Thank you, I am always willing to listen and learn. Regards, Bob

[@andrewgrover]

Bob, you need to get that collet seated in the chuck cap first. When you put it in and just start tightening like that, the collet doesn't get seated in the cap recess. As soon as you started turning, I could see wobble. You can see it through most of the video (TBH I have only skipped through a bit). The correct way is to knock the collet into the cap with a rap on the bench so that it is captured in the cap. Then insert your rod. You'll have much better luck. EDIT: Just noticed others below have made the same comment. Should have scrolled down farther. I made this exact same mistake with my first trial of my own collet chuck a few weeks ago, which is why it was so obvious and fresh to me.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Andrew, I corrected the issue in the third video. Regards, Bob

[@jkrupp]

Nice job. I'm not a handyman, but this video makes me want to be one.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Jorge. Regards, Bob

[@keithzerafa]

Amazing job

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Keith. Regards, Bob

[@stanleyshapiro7605]

RJ Can you tell us a little bit about that box of collets you're using for your drills. Are those the same ones used by machinists for metal lathes and milling machines? Thanks, Stan

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Here’s a link to the set: Collet Chuck Set - amzn.to/37e6gf0 Collet for 3/4” Stock (Not Included in set with chuck) - amzn.to/2RAikAv

[@tevfikozkaynak2272]

I just got my first small lathe and have wanted to make bespoke pens for years now! Thank you for these videos! I saw you included a list of items to get but I'm having difficulty with a few. Do you have an updated list? I am brand new to turning and I want to make sure everything I get is the appropriate things?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

I don’t have an updated list. Which pieces are you having trouble finding? I’ll see if I can locate them and then get the list updated. Some of them are tough to get, maybe only sold at one place in the USA, and may just be out of stock. If that’s the case, you can let the seller know that you want that item and they can notify you when the have them again. 😃 Regards, Bob

[@tevfikozkaynak2272]

@@RJBWoodTurner Thank you for the quick response! I am having trouble finding the Tenon Cutter, M13 X .8 Plug Tap & Die, Tailstock Sliding Tap/Die Holder, and the Jowo #6 Plug Tap M7.4-.5 I also am nervous for things fitting my small WEN Lathe.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

@@tevfikozkaynak2272 All those items are available here: drive.google.com/file/d/1hn5NwMEyKY8RsDuvUk67lnjb54O-sSGA/view?usp=drivesdk It looks like he is out of stock on some of the items. I do not have a second source as these are very specific items and hard to acquire. Chad is one of the few people who do carry them. I originally purchased my tap & dies in a group buy off IAP. Regards Bob

[@andysmylie1184]

Great video. Will be watching out for the follow on. Do you have a list if extra tools needed to make this one. And a source of pen bits to be fitted once you have completed the casing?

[@andysmylie1184]

Found your list in previous video. Trout I had seen it previously.😀

[@RJBWoodTurner]

😃

[@samswoodshop9937]

Bob thanks for the list, question did you buy one of his pen kits to get the nib and holder?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

No, The nib/housing/feed comes from www.fpnibs.com. There Jowo #6. Regards, Bob

[@ricardorivera7208]

This is so cool and thanks for sharing. Quick question, I have a shop fox 1704 coming my way and am curious if the M13 tap and die set that you have will fit my mini-lathe. If not, what do you recommend I get. I saw various sets on Warners Turnhouse but am unsure of which one will work for me. Thanks in advance!

[@RJBWoodTurner]

You will need to know if you Shop Fox is MT1 or MT2. Then you will know which tap & die holder to order. If your not sure, search the model number of the Shop Fox and check out the specks. Regards, Bob

[@BradleyC]

Great walk through. Do you have a link as to where to buy these tools? Thanks

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you. Bespoke Tool Listing Document: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wMrznNd2OKRvOp6BCc2DAb_LdoiqeZYi?usp=sharing Regards, Bob

[@michaelcschmitt]

Finally I have a finished product. This does not have triple start..

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Triple start is not necessary.

[@The_Solitarius_Lupus]

Hi Bob, Where did you get the sliding tap and die holder? I am interested in trying this myself!

[@RJBWoodTurner]

The info is in the tool listing below. drive.google.com/file/d/1hn5NwMEyKY8RsDuvUk67lnjb54O-sSGA/view?usp=drivesdk Regards, Bob

[@courtneyhall7140]

you can use headlight restorer compound on a folded up paper towel for a superior shine while it is still on the lathe,just saying.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

I have used it in the past, it does work well. Regards, Bob

[@mikesmukula482]

BOB, I'm wanting to get into Kitless Pens. U showed in one of ur videos, I can't find it) u had all the parts that are needed and then some laid out on a table saw,. Could you please reshow all those. parts and where to get them?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Hello Mike, Here’s a link to a google drive with a PDF listing all the tools. If this doesn’t help, let me know. It’s older so some things may have changed. Regards, Bob

[@MyFoot]

Where do you get the mandrels used to hold the blank after youve cut the threads? I can find a source for the collet chuck, and the tap and die sets, but not for the mandrels. Do you have a source or do yih make them yourself?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Hello, Once you have the taps and dies, you just need and Aluminum or brass 1/2” rod and you make your own. Regards, Bob

[@MyFoot]

thank you! After i asked i saw you making them in another video. Cant wait to make my own bespoke pens. So far my kit pens have been really nice

[@KentRigby]

Where do you get your nib/feed assemblies?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Hello Kent, Here’s the links for all of the tools: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wMrznNd2OKRvOp6BCc2DAb_LdoiqeZYi

[@michaelcschmitt]

Bob I have a question for you. I have been using vegetable oil for thread cutting, I don’t recommend this as it tends to gum up and if you don’t get it all off it makes a mess. I see here you were using mineral oil, do you have any issues? Do you still use mineral oil?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

I still use mineral oil and haven’t had any issues. Other turners recommended I use a spray, I think it was Canola oil, but I’ve never tried it. I think it’s because it’s rated for higher heat.

[@squatchhammer7215]

So is there a supply for the feed and nib?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

No, not on this style. I fill the body with ink and use it that way. Regards, Bob

[@squatchhammer7215]

@@RJBWoodTurner I was wondering where do you get the nib assembly from? I know that there's pen manufacturers that sell replacements. Since this is not a kit pen, I don't know if there's a bulk supply of the nib assembly?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

fpnibs.com Regards, Bob

[@_MadFox]

Tell me please, in the video you showed collet ER-type or other?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

I believe it’s ER-32. And I used a 19-20mm collet. Regards, Bob

[@_MadFox]

@@RJBWoodTurner Thank you!

[@_MadFox]

I wanted to point out the need to first install the collet into the nut, and then only install the blank. But I saw the same comment from another user =)

[@christopherchristmas2324]

I Enjoy the Video. I have been waiting to see you make this video. I'm setting up to make kit-less pen. It's a lot of tooling. Question: # 1.How long do make your blanks? #2. Can you use wood? I realize if could you would have to use a hard, tight grain wood.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

The length of the blank depends on wether your using an ink cartridge, a converter, or in this case a Parker ink refill. It’s very flexible. Wood might be tough because it moves so much. I will be trying it though, you can bet on that. Regards, Bob

[@christopherchristmas2324]

Thanks Bob... I will be keeping up with your posting

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Christopher. Regards, Bob

[@samswoodshop9937]

Bob I missed the size of the drill bit?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Here’s a full tool listing: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wMrznNd2OKRvOp6BCc2DAb_LdoiqeZYi

[@constantinosthrasyvoulou2553]

Hi sir. Both your videos are great. I am a fountain pen user and collector. If i wish to try and build my own fountain pen (kitless) what sort of economical lathe could I buy? That would be just for the hobby.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Hello, Thank you. I would recommend looking for a used lathe, perhaps a Jet, Nova, Rikon, or other lathe in that class what I have found is you can purchase them used for about the same cost as an inexpensive lathe. The inexpensive lathes seem to have play in the component which is detrimental with such precise turning.

[@constantinosthrasyvoulou2553]

@@RJBWoodTurner Thanks very much for your reply. I watched the third video also. All videos are extremely helpful. Do we talk about wood lathe or metal lathe?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Roof lathe is just fine for making the acrylic pens. You only need a metal lathe for metal pens.

[@OleGramps53]

Bob where did you get the tap and die 2MT rig?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

www.nielsniche.com. Regards, Bob

[@taniazou6794]

Great video! The Mandrel 1/2 inch (aluminum rod took down and threaded to M10x1.0), did you buy it or made it yourself?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

I purchased a set from Jim Hinze at Hinze pens on Facebook. Then I started making my own once I got the taps. I just purchase Aluminum rod off eBay. Regards, Bob

[@taniazou6794]

@@RJBWoodTurner Thanks, it's very helpful!!

[@beeleywood7796]

What a great video. I have long wanted to make a kitless but always put it of. After watching this I might just give it a try. The problem is here in the UK triple start taps and dies are very expensive. In your opinion, can it be done with a standard set?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

I’d bet you could make something yourself that would work. All that’s needed is to hold is steady. Regards, Bob

[@Blueboy9055]

Beeley Wood Just read your response to Bob’s video. You can use normal tap/dies, but the triple lead tap/dies are the professional way to go! Beaufort Ink (in Scotland) are very helpful they will probably even advise you to use normal tap/dies to begin with, then once you’ve honed your skills and design etc you might decide it’s worth going the professional way. Apologies for jumping in. Chris

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you, especially for the company information. This is good advise. Regards, Bob

[@Blueboy9055]

RJBWoodTurner Thank you Bob. Chris

[@rickhall4318]

Looks like you made an Esterbrook Fountain pen!

[@RJBWoodTurner]

It kind of does look like that. Redards, Bob

[@johnbeaman7199]

Way cool how much for all the extra tools

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Bespoke Tool Listing Document: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wMrznNd2OKRvOp6BCc2DAb_LdoiqeZYi?usp=sharing I hope this helps. Regards, Bob

[@davidcharleson5241]

Interesting to see. I am a long way from the kitless stuff but interesting anyway. Did you cast that material yourself? It's well nice. Cheers.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Hello David, I did not, that blank was sent to me by Jim Hinze over at Hinze Pens. Regards, Bob

[@pattiwoodring100]

Beautiful work! I have pen envy! Where did you buy your tools for this pen?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Here’s a video I made about the tools needed and there is a link to a PDF of where I got it. Regards, Bob Bespoke Tool Listing: Here's Everything You'll Need To Turn Kitless Pens kzbin.info/www/bejne/qWGbd4CdeJeemrc

[@Hoosierchef70]

This is so cool. I love the choice of material. Is that a piece of Alumalite that you made? ~Scott

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you Scott, It is Alumilite sent to me by Jim Hinze. He is a master at kit less pens and was one of my teachers. Regards, Bob

[@rjford]

Fit Collet in nut First hold work truer, Richard,,,

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Thank you.

[@YaleBensonPage]

Are you left-handed?

[@RJBWoodTurner]

Yes, I’m a southpaw. Regards, Bob

[@YaleBensonPage]

Cool!

[@chartle1]

Just your kitless pen tooling cost twice maybe three times as much as my lathe. :) I thought casting was a rabbit hole.

[@RJBWoodTurner]

LOL, it is pricey. I bought it one piece at a time to lessen the pain. Regards, Bob

[@chartle1]

And no 20% Harbor freight coupon. :)

[@RJBWoodTurner]

LOL, not for this build. Regards, Bob