Rich & Sam On: ESForce

[@blokooxd]

last time i was this early sam was still going to school in his spongebob costume

[@akalion213]

A MASSIVE CARDBOARD BOX

[@--LZ---]

UUUP YOU GO

[@CatnamedMittens]

Fine, I'll give you this like.

[@blokooxd]

sound :D

[@CatnamedMittens]

***** Hi

[@aplayerwhoplays7579]

Hey what's up guys it's Scarce here, ESForce confirmed rigged last major VP vs SK. This is insane, I might do a double upload today, kappa.

[@moardoor9772]

Hey what's up guys it's Scarce here, and umm... well it turns out that VP actually owns SK, and the two majors were rigged, so yeah guys... it's just crazy, might have to do a triple upload today.

[@thefrosty1925]

I can just hear that whiny, American voice right now.. *shudders*

[@moardoor9772]

ThaGamer HEY WHAT"S UP GUYS IT'S SCARCE HERE, AND I HAVE TO DO A QUADRUPLE UPLOAD TODAY, CRAZY STUFF HAPPENING TODAY

[@seinfeld11123]

how many subs do they have?

[@chasp_0784]

wow, this sort of thing would never reach my ears without this channel, great stuff, keep fighting the good fight!

[@SlothOption]

Great video and thank you for continually devoting substantial amounts of time to searching for and uncovering stories like these. If nothing else, you have certainly fostered interest in investigative esports journalism which seems to be the only reliable defense against corruption flying under the radar in esports.

[@mrawilliam92]

I love the way richard digs into these things and really wish there was more people putting out more of these long form podcast type videos about these things

[@TBosse1013]

Listening to the end of this after the csgo coaching scandal is eerie to see how well he predicted the fears and worries everyone has

[@Rob8834]

Thanks for doing all this work for esports, Richard!

[@Mythrunes]

Great to see that you balanced the intro sound level. :) Great videos.

[@dizzt19]

Yep, never had an issue with lenght, just the volume :)

[@lesbles007]

If Richard keeps this up i'd be surprised if his subscriber count doesn't reach 120k or more by the end of the year.

[@georgeadams6254]

And also at the bottom of a river, at the hands of the Russian mob. :D

[@00HoODBoy]

+George Adams we got his back mate

[@Zorkz]

Explains why no action was taken against VP back when they bet on the game they knew the results of

[@Zorkz]

Bulletproof_Gaming CS:GO afaik valve only did something to ibp because csgl provided all the proof and logs and it got so much attention

[@Zorkz]

Bulletproof_Gaming CS:GO I don't think valve went out of their way to get the logs for the ibp case but that Richard presented them to valve or something along those lines, the vp case passed too quietly

[@Kamssiopeia]

theres a difference between throwing a match and knowing the result of the match that was already played but still was bettable on CSGOLounge (it was in middle of DDOS era) and taking advantage of website. They didn't throw anything they just took advantage of website Also IBP was banned for throwing a game not for betting on their own match etc

[@moebanashake2326]

+gNsky IBP was banned for betting on their own match and throwing , the ban was for 1 year then they changed it to life

[@Kamssiopeia]

+Moe Banashake no, they were banned for throwing, the skins are just evidance that idd they did throw

[@ramz1937]

Yo Rich , Any update on if KQLY is gonna do an interview or not :D ? thanks in advance !

[@bobeatyourbrains]

Thank you for these videos! They deserve more credit than they are getting. #prayforesports

[@SEYYN]

thanks for bringing light richard

[@rob-__-]

You are such a good fucking reporter than this community does not deserve.

[@supersnake6450]

Richard Lewis is porn on youtube. Only he is allowed to upload these quality porn videos without getting taken down.

[@00HoODBoy]

yea just look at this ax1911 comment. fucking sad

[@BatteredToast]

RLewis the hero we need but dont deserve

[@jeromecodwin2127]

36:35 That colleague is Thorin talking about Poland being a third world country right

[@hollenhammer]

yep

[@ChaseMe2TheSky]

About that D2CL event that Na'Vi and VP co-hosted - there was also an award for Best Manager. Guess which team's manager won it? Hint - it starts with "Natus" and ends with "Vincere".

[@nyllie6239]

i paused at 3 minutes and gonna get a drink for this one

[@takca9649]

Papa bless u two for providing these videos!!!

[@shr1neCS]

Papa Bless

[@--LZ---]

Papa Bless

[@cucumbersalad9063]

Papa Bless

[@financemaster1400]

Fuking americana propaganda youteburi

[@georgeadams6254]

Gotta respect Rich for not only great journalism, but also the balls to start picking at Russian mobsters.

[@rizzcs6018]

I watch these videos when im high as fuck so i can re watch them sober at work : >

[@SneakyBadAssOG]

30:35 Good call. This literally happened yesterday. Maybe new video about it rolling out?

[@caljente]

@richard at 16:10 you said Team secret was Owned by GGA, that's not true. GGA owns Alliance, EG and Team Tinker who disbanded after ti5 quals.

[@RLewisReports]

Yes, I got mixed up. I know that GGA had talks with Secret but it was indeed Tinker they picked up. 2p.com/11124897_1/Team-Tinker-confirmed-part-of-Good-Game-Agency-Secret-quotlooking-elsewherequot-by-Sun_Tzu.htm

[@Ridghost]

It honestly feels like Richard is someone who is thinking beyond his time. He's absolutely right, and I've never seen him lie, even after the massive LoL witch hunt. This kind of thing will burn the bridges of E-sports and any good faith it has built with it's fans if it continues down this path. The issue is the products maybe amazing, but the owners and the controlling parties are in general, just not good people. They are corrupt, criminal or just petty liars, only in this growing scene to exploit it for their own personal gain. There are not enough good people, with real power in the scene right now, and at the same time the audience doesn't seem to give enough of a shit either. So if a controlling party who does care, tries to make a change, the rest of the parties can veto and bully said player out of the scene/industry. If a brilliant reporter, reports this kind of news, the people don't feel strongly enough about the subject to speak out loudly enough to get noticed, or to make real change it seems. This corruption has seemingly only escalated over time, and only Riot has had the power and will to see a select few of these issues off (and they are no saints). It's a very depressing time for e-sports. I follow Fighting Games mostly, and I heard that Mango or Armada had cheated or fixed a match in anyway, it would break my heart and destroy the competitive game for me (as it would most). Here is hoping some miraculous change comes to E-Sports.

[@user-zi8hj5ne1z]

I miss the old sam mic

[@gencilp]

buckle up bois

[@Ten4g00dbuddy]

Richard, I think the money comes from winning bets or the more traditional spread. Winning bets is not the same as placed bets. Taking a percentage of wins would be different than "rake" which is taken no matter who wins and loses.

[@Hell3xio]

I can sense the storm coming... holy shit

[@jangrubizna7486]

Great job! You are the Mikael Blomkvist of esport!

[@liquiddnb1305]

Im not so sure about the 2 team rule, there are loads of chinese teams that have multiple teams in dota so it seems strange that buyaka said that he wasnt allowed to have multiple teams

[@Znelson89]

The BaBam throwback. What a legend

[@leevonm7069]

Love this channel ! :)

[@trustedrt2442]

Richard, I'm not really sure if your open to video ideas in the comments section but I would really enjoy watching a video where you and Thooorin 'unofficially' talk about all this ridiculousness in the scene at the moment. Thooorin and yourself are my favorite 'duo' in the scene just in front of Anders and Semmler :D

[@DanMProductionsBois]

I knew something was going on.

[@georgeadams6254]

ESForce is on the gear!

[@Maliciou5]

An evaluation just needs to show profit potential and proof of concept. Whether or not CSGOlounge was taking a cut of bets I don't know, but a prospective buyer can see the amount of traffic and transactions that are taking place on the site. If you buy the site, you can then change the policy to get a vig for each trade. This is how you can get a 12 million dollar evaluation on shares, without having made a profit.

[@jamesoneal6595]

Honestly the shares being valued at 12 million while the company makes no profits does not seem that outrageous. A lot of the value people ascribe to a company is "potential" for what this company could earn in the future. Twitter literally made no profit for the first 10 years and still it was valued as a multi billion dollar business. Lounge is of course much smaller, but so is the value of the shares.

[@shaunthreeh]

because obviously Lounge will be looking to become a market leader and then make itself profitable with adverts like Google/Twitter/Facebook.. A bike is like a car because it has wheels.

[@jamesoneal6595]

Dropping the pretense that skins have no monetary value, because we all know they do. Do you have any fucking clue how much was wagered on lounge every single day? Those numbers were very real, and Lounge started taking a cut at that point. And yeah Dota2lounge and Csgolounge both were market leaders in bets that were placed on these 2 games, which constitute a giant share of E-sports overall. Look at the gambling sites that got shut down, they made tons of money. Lounge towered over them in terms of traffic and the amount of skins deposited, taking a cut of a few % would instantly make such a site profitable.

[@shaunthreeh]

[Nice bait if it is a bait..] Sorry but you're talking absolute shite. No they did not "start taking a cut". As usual another guy super confident with 0 knowledge. They started holding back a small % around 4-5 to ensure they could pay out bets to allow for weird returns value wise and errors with bots. This is not taking a cut and if you think RL would reiterate that they don't take a cut without double checking that I don't know why you're watching his videos

[@jamesoneal6595]

shaun strachan Watch the video again, Richard seems way more dubious of the claim that they never took a cut than he thinks they made no money.

[@jamesoneal6595]

6:07 is the timestamp.

[@Derpfriar]

great vid Richard

[@tylermohr2683]

@Richard Lewis have you contacted Steam or other major companies about the moral and ethical issues of having ownership or interest in multiple teams and/or business websites related to esports (such as gambling)?

[@sanmarino6816]

DkPhobos is also "currently employed by Na`Vi as a programmer of their site".

[@arbitraryify]

Mainly following Dota and this is interesting information given CIS and its scene (and even more worrying if SK would get a team in the future). Also not too surprising that VP and Na'vi went with G2A around the same. Good reporting and thank you for your work. I think one reason little have been said about it in Dota is that VP/VP.Polar/Polarity and Na'vi have been doing fairly poorly and save for EpiCentre their leagues and lans have not been too popular & its all in the muddy waters of the CIS region too. For example there was always talk about the issues with Alliance and EG once they met in important matches. Rubbish that happened and criminally under reported and its bad that so few picked up on it when ESForce bought into Na'Vi (the reddit thread barely registered back then).

[@Tonokoz]

You don't need a rake when it comes to betting, you just adjust the odds in your favor like if team 1 has 80% chance to win and team 2 has 20% chance to according to your analysts, you don't give team 1 "1.2" odds and team 2 "5" (this would be a even split with no profit) Instead you go and do somthing like 1.18 and 4, so even if they didn't take rake they made bank.

[@DanMProductionsBois]

Richard, I love your passion for corruption! I finally finished this video and LETS GO RICHARD! I think its total bs and there definitely is some corruption going on, the guys an arms dealer. When you thnk about that how far fetched is it that cheats could also be involved.

[@Dirrtza]

i cant bolive you writed that comment the way you did.

[@siziyman]

Btw "Sneg" is just transliteration for Russian word "снег", which means "snow". So don't take its sounding (which is much more harsh in English transliteration, that it is in original version) too hard, huh.

[@mjc3620]

With LOL wasnt there a Samsung white and Samsung blue?

[@VivaLaRazsa]

yes there was, the sister team concept is very popular in korea and top level cabals are tolerated and regulated by Kespa. Things are even crazier in china where riot has given up some control because things are too wild and then money is too big.

[@moebanashake2326]

will something happen to phantom lord ?

[@bajs3666]

Basically the russian/ukranian maffia is corrupting our entire scene. Valve plz fix

[@rnichilo]

Luv ya Rich & Sam. proper job.

[@8vipper8]

just a quick, note, when you said that where the "multi property" happens, well the mexican league of football, we have that =( on several teams =(

[@brokenstyx]

People don't look at Richard like they look at barbarians

[@timmysinvestments3110]

So this usmanov dude was the boss of Lounge? lol , the russian version of Gaben news.images.itv.com/image/file/733899/stream_img.jpg

[@BackwardsKnees]

What do you mean you dont understand how a company that makes no money can be valued that high? Snapchat (and other tech companies) have been valued at over a billion dollars before they made a single penny.

[@dasapm]

True, just look at twitter. How do they make money except for venture capital?

[@silverwar360]

they actually have controll over a medium by having an app on millions of peoples phones. how much money do you think is a private info leak worth from all of those phones?

[@Ridghost]

You still need to have the intention of making money. The value is a prediction on how much money the product/company can make when monetized. You can't be valued at millions of dollars without any incentive or way to monetize.

[@BackwardsKnees]

Ridghost Snapchat was valued at billion+ before it even knew how it would monetize itself let alone had started monetization. Even to this day Snapchat doesn't make that much money (compared to its valuation) and struggles with monetization strategies. But it's still worth and is valued in the billions.

[@Ridghost]

BackwardsKnees mm fair enough, but I understand Richard's concerned. How would this company pay for all these websites if it makes absolutely no profit. Clearly SnapChat would have some major investment if it was valued at this kind of money. It doesn't make sense for any kind of investor to invest in a company which refuses to make any kind of money. Plus if Snap is making a small amount of money now, atleast that is proof to the investors that it can make money. I take back what I said before, I still take issue with the valuation of ESForce.

[@startfertig1]

people who could stop them from owning several teams, betting sites and leagues are the ones who have power and money invested into the scene. even if they are not involved into corruption, they would just harm themself by pointing out big flaws at the major teams. as long as no third party that has no money invested regulates the whole thing, nobody will.

[@Dr3shy]

CSGL would take the skins in each account after a certain amount of time

[@NewHeavenSalesman]

i'm curious, is there no dota 2 equivalent to richard? god knows that whenever I visit the doter reddit (which is admittedly not often), i've never seen any discussion of potential shady dealings or controversies. unsurprisingly, at the moment there's nothing about this whole mess on the frontpage (but like 5 topics about arteezy because xD)

[@MrKrazyKap]

How could anyone believe that CSGO Lounge never took a rake? If you've never used the site maybe I'd understand.

[@Savantt7]

Yeah I know right... still I've never gambled in my life and it's precisely because I know the people who run those businesses are the scum of the earth and exploit people's addictions, of course they make a crapton of money swindling it out of your hands, its common sense

[@majorfalcon07]

Very great vid, and truly scary. I am a Dota 2 fan, and I can see why the CIS region is so weak and so many players are breaking away from this corrupted system (e.g. Puppey creating Team Secret). 322 was also CIS region, but alas South America has also been caught multiple times (and now players are banned for life from all Valve tournaments). Thanks for the information Richard, sorry your not into Dota and have such a weird history with a lot of the personalities. I enjoy your work alot and wish we could have you.

[@artyom_ra]

I can't believe this is really happening. This is fucked up, hard to see anyone besides Valve being able to handle this, but sadly Valve doesn't seem to care about it. And it's crazy, there is so much potental in e-Sports and cs:go particularly while they just add new sounds to the game. Btw, Sneg means snow in russian.

[@SeriouslyMikey]

I heard screaming children today. I can't be too sure, but I think Richard Lewis had something to do with it.

[@BH_Ghostler]

They were probably screaming to him for help. Being stuck in your basement against your will isn't very fun.

[@SeriouslyMikey]

Joke went so far over your heads, it hit the moon.

[@BH_Ghostler]

I know the reference, I watched that episode. It just wasn't that funny of a joke.

[@aireon964]

I'm ready for the BBQ

[@ne0tic]

Richard! Have you seen phatomlords new videos on his snapchat?

[@elliotdown5597]

hmm, this makes me think of Sodapoppin owning multiple teams in OW. NG red and blue right?

[@ROGUESPIRIT_]

shit going down

[@Sharok888]

What if the player getting passed around was some sort of money laundering scheme?

[@bajs3666]

News today, SK and Navi will bootcamp together for i-League StarSeries. coincidence? i dont think so

[@pkn1999]

45:34 what happened to brood war?

[@ShaDoWasSaSinG]

Basicly died cuz of a matchfixing scandal

[@lachiewren]

rip GODSENT Youth Team FlipSide.ZA

[@CatnamedMittens]

I'll spread the video around, like it, etc, but I won't watch the rest of it, because its depressing.

[@barryscott5667]

Chin up, Mittens.

[@CatnamedMittens]

Barry Scott We're gunna get raped by CIS penis.

[@ROGUESPIRIT_]

im going to watch it anyway cos im bored. depression inbound on isle 4

[@tmadeviant5375]

ez skins ez lyfe

[@ajohnca]

This was painful to watch, but needed...

[@amafi_poe]

as someone with a voice in the industry do you get the feeling these things register with organizations like valve and riot etc? As someone who has always fought against the esportsification of the games I care about specifically because of all the shady bullshit that has always followed esports since the early days of the internet, it seems to me that the industry as a whole is either inept, willfully ignorant or corrupt to the core.

[@h-why]

guardiaN had/has a 200k cs inventory

[@ALISHISNOIUS]

what do you think about the fnatc swap?

[@VivaLaRazsa]

mate he did a video about it 5 days ago

[@ALISHISNOIUS]

VivaLaRazsa your awesome :) ty also man

[@Elyasserg]

Holy shit that Dota 2 champions league is shady as fuck, 2 sites sponsoring a league where 2 of the teams are owners of the sites, thats ridiculous

[@IUHOI]

On your VP and VP.Polarity thing. Well its quite common in Dota. So we had Newbee and Newbee.Young. Also Vici Gaming and Vici Gaming.Reborn, Na'Vi and Na'Vi USA. They were fucnctioning at the same time, clearly presenting the same brand. It looks like a normal practice in china. wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Portal:Teams here you may find also more of this.

[@anthonyl764]

Hey Richard this kind of ownership structure is prominent in almost all Motorsports all the way to the top level such as governing bodies like the FIA and NASCAR. But then again the collusion exist as well with team orders and such. Maybe Mercedes AMG owns some large gambling operation! This does exist though in some professional sports.

[@anthonyl764]

Today 8-23, a showmatch between VP & Na'Vi is being broadcast by RuHub featuring odds from EGB, man I wish i was joking...

[@JayVeeDee]

Damn. I'm losing faith in eSports as a whole. It all just seems rigged and even the evidence is right in front of us, but we're too powerless to do shit. Richard is it possible to get some of those lawyers back on the show and ask them about these things? I'd think it's important to see the legal standpoint from someone that practises the law and maybe even get some idea as to how to fix it. By the way, I'm still blocked from your Twitter account, lele, but I'll just keep supporting you on KZbin :p

[@RaginReaper]

These reports have been coming out near the end and the beginning of last year. I thought VP and CSGOLounge was known. The NaVi media right and the SK ownership are the only things im surprised about but not really the SK thing. Always knew something was fishy with them.

[@dizzt19]

I've always hated the Twitch - GGA deal, now Curse...

[@nitbot]

doom and gloom

[@Kostyan41]

Come on. You talk about betting sites sponsoring teams. Well, in normal sports it is absolutely ok for a betting site to sponsor football club. Moreover, in English Premier League it is allowed to own no more than 30% of any amount of football clubs (like, a person can own 29% of Arsenal, MU, MC and so on + he can OWN one team). This is normal way for a business to develop. And, btw, not a single suspicious match was played during Na'Vi - VP partnership (>1year)

[@RLewisReports]

Sponsorship isn't the same as ownership.

[@svenschukat2958]

Dident ESL bende the rules to include VP into their league? Looks shady

[@RGB_V1]

Value doesn't really care about CS:GO and most of their games so it becomes so easy to siphon cash out of the pockets of the fans it so sad. You have a company who doesn't want to make games anymore and just wants to crash up and chill.

[@lukerapley9053]

Richard about to be murdered by the Russian Mafia xD

[@seanclifford6354]

Lit

[@quinlexyt6322]

You keep this shit up you're gonna end up needing security dude lol. Fucking up people's money.

[@timurnakamur]

Bernd you should not really open this topic. You are young, playful, everything's easy for you. This is an another thing. It's not Snowden and not even secret services archives. Better not to get into that. Seriously, any of you would deeply regret. Close the topic and forget what was written here. I full. I fully understand that this post incites additional interest, but I far the curious - stop. The rest will just not see it.

[@Dirrtza]

Jews...

[@fuar3630]

Samantha

[@xbosse6882]

looks like footbal, but there its even more stupid. redbull salzburg evey year sells their players to redbull leipzig coincidentially way below their actual worth

[@rippertcp]

I am early and noone cares.

[@TheComedicPCGamer]

Jeez. Why cant people sit down, play a game of cs, and go home?

[@Savantt7]

The world would be a better place for it indeed, but all these good things as soon as they start to get noticed turn into a gold rush for all the wrong sorts of people... shame

[@domixoxo]

lmfao when you pronound vrb vorratsgesellschaften :D good vid though :)

[@tij-soa-5183]

:-)

[@panajotov]

Sneg means snow in Slavic languages. Kinda shitty name.

[@Lulzjustbeingacat]

smegma1

[@00HoODBoy]

esports as a Business is just absurd. fucking absurd