Why Apple allowed Official Macintosh Clones in the '90s - Retro Tech History

🛠 Check out PCBWay at pcbway.com for all your PCB needs! 🛠
What is an Apple Mac? From the Apple Mac pro to the Mac Mini to the Mac Air these are easily identifiable devices in the modern day but this wasn't always so. Today we discover why Apple allowed Officially Licensed Macintosh clones in the '90s? We're going to look at some examples from my collection and we'll explore the history behind the decisions made by Apple at the time, and why the idea came crashing to an end.
🏆 Support RMC
Time is the most valuable thing we have. Official Cave Dwellers create a reliable monthly income that allows to give my all to this channel. If you'd like to support this, and help me make it the very best I can then please consider using:
/ rmcretro or ko-fi.com/RMCretro
● Support the Sponsors of The Cave
MonsterJoysticks: monsterjoysticks.com/RMC
1ClickPrint: www.1clickprint.com#RMC
● Subscribe
Please take a moment to subscribe to the channel
kzbin.info?sub_c...
● Episode Links
Steve's channel for lots of Apple goodies: / mac84
● Join me on social media
Twitter: / rmcretro
● Come and chat on the RMC chat server
Discord: / discord
●RMC Merch Shop for RMC books, posters, mugs, and a whole lot more
rmcretro.store
● RMC Podcasts
Enjoy my Podcasts with your favourite app using the links here:
Retro Tea Break - audioboom.com/channels/5001251
This Week in Retro - anchor.fm/thisweekinretro

[@RMCRetro]

It's good to be back, happy new year to you all! Did you own a Macintosh clone? I'd love to hear your stories. Also be sure to check out Steve's channel for lots of Apple goodies: kzbin.info - He'll be exploring the history of clones on his own channel later today. Neil - RMC

[@amras94]

Good to have you back, I missed my retro tech

[@ttrjw]

Have you moved yet?

[@Mac84]

Thanks Neil! Excellent video, I was so glad to contribute to this. Good luck with getting all your clones up and running! FYI - Part 1 in my clone series is out now: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hn67fKxrq9eAgK8

[@darthnagus5457]

Welcome back

[@BertGrink]

Hi Neil, welcome to 2021; it's good to have you back. I hope you have settled in in your new den. 😄

[@hardlyworgen71]

When Steve showed that tower, I immediately came up with the perfect name for him to give it: Mackard Bell

[@mikeyandwho]

Was I the only one expecting Neil start doing sign language the corner 😂

[@LevitatingCups]

I was expeting him to tell more of the weather.

[@frazzleface753]

Tiny Neil in the corner!

[@narkeddiver7325]

@@frazzleface753 nobody puts Neil in the corner ;)

[@DeadReckon]

"A demented ghetto blaster" Reminds me of those odd Compaq PC's they built in the late 90's with the built in speakers and usually Windows ME installed

[@PixelmechanicYYZ]

The stone walls behind the crates just gives the cave that extra class :)

[@dross1705]

Fancy!

[@davidsmall6322]

The Ponytail at 2:32 is incredible.

[@JosiahGould]

That's no ponytail, that's a glorious, GLORIOUS mullet! Paired with that jacket, it is the perfect "Business in front, party in back" image.

[@ando8262]

omg that “uh-oh” I haven’t heard that in two decades

[@digiowl9599]

I miss those times. Javascript was a mistake.

[@NeverlandSystemZor]

@@digiowl9599 For what it was meant for it, not really... pushing it into a "do anything & everything, anywhere & everywhere, all the time" thing was a HUGE mistake.

[@therealfodder]

Same here! Anyone remember what it was from? I'm thinking it was an FTP client but I'm hazing over that a bit.

[@therealfodder]

Never mind - icq apparently. I'm getting it confused with the 'Oh no!' sample

[@steeviebops]

@@therealfodder It was ICQ but I think WS_FTP also used it as an error sound.

[@thomascharnock]

Never thought I'd be describing a video about Mac clones as 'absolutley badass' but here we are. Amazing job.

[@cubby170279]

Looks like you have stepped up the production value since moving to the new mega cave. Nice slow panning shots and I'm loving the small overlaid Retro man.

[@JeromeChan]

There was also BeOS that could run on PowerPC macs.

[@espressomatic]

There was talk of an acquisition by Apple around 1996, which never panned out. I don't know when the talks started with Jobs, but the writing was likely on the wall.

[@IanBetteridge]

@@espressomatic Talks all happened around the same time, and there were two options initially: BeOS, which already ran on PowerPC but could also run on Intel, and a Microsoft offer of what amounted to the Mac interface running on top of the Windows NT kernel. Someone at Apple who was still in touch with Jobs connected him with Ellen Hancock, then-CTO of Apple, and so NeXT became an option. Be basically got ruled out because Jean Louis Gassee wanted $100m, and Apple would only pay $80m - and of course, Jobs managed to get $400m out of them.

[@xnonsuchx]

I did tech support for the Radius brand PowerMac clones and got to help Jerry Harrison of Talking Heads with his. I think I shipped him a new SCSI HDD under warranty.

[@mikebailey783]

The textured backdrop created by the stone wall behind the set is just great! - The coloured lighting picks it out beautifully.

[@RMCRetro]

Thanks Mike I really enjoy it too. Today I've been building a new wall from an old factory floor and I think it looks great, this will be the new Lab backdrop. Can't wait to share it

[@Johanniscool]

“We’re not comparing Apples to Apples”.... *crickets*

[@markgoldspink5109]

He did look genuinely sorry.

[@TheSulross]

Needs to do like the pros do and add a laugh track for those punchy nuggets

[@Big_Tex]

When I moved to Round Rock, Texas in 1999, POWER COMPUTING’S headquarters building still sat there with their name on it, but abandoned by that time.

[@MainAvel]

Why Apple no longer allows Macintosh clones: everyone else was doing Apple's job better than Apple.

[@scott1564]

To some extent, I agree. When OSX came out, had clones still been around, Apple could have upped their market share relative to MS to nearly 50%.

[@SomePotato]

To be fair, when Windows 3 came out, Apple's System 6 didn't really have a better reputation for stability. ;)

[@werpu12]

Both Windows and Apples MacOS were terrible at stability. The lack of memory protection in applications really showed. I never used the pre X MacOSes but when I finally toyed around with them, I was frankly quite amazed how terrible they were, given that they were alyways praised by the Mac crows back them as being so superior to windows. Not that windows was any good, but hey standards were low back then.

[@bigjaffa02]

Why is Penn Gillette opening that computer? He could just use his magic to disassemble it.

[@NozomuYume]

Now I have a burning desire to know about "cutie".

[@dexxeve9420]

Prob the most professional setup I have seen on youtube, its like high-level TV quality, and the lighting is so well set up. Makes popular KZbinrs look amateur

[@RMCRetro]

That's very kind thank you! There's lots more to come :D

[@SSteelification]

i just love the start menu on the motorola clone, totally ripping off the thing they meant to destroy.

"I guess you could say we're not comparing apples to apples" *sigh* oh Neil... :D

[@RMCRetro]

I'm sorry

[@retroftw]

@@RMCRetro no you're not ;-)

[@Dizzy_Hites]

Come on, we all knew it was coming, and Neil didn't let us down.

[@slithery9291]

You really couldn't help that could you dad.

[@JETJOOBOY]

@@RMCRetro Sorry... Not sorry

[@Toreonify]

5 years ago I thought I got StarMax for cheap, but inside it was an Intel motherboard with 200 MHz Pentium MMX and 128 Mb of RAM. To make it more appealing to use, I've installed NeXTSTEP on it :D

[@MichaelRusso]

I have a clone and like the fact that it is so compatible with PC devices, like a vga monitor.

[@JapanPop]

Hey nice to see a collab with one of my favorite channels, Mac84!

[@MK-of7qw]

I had the pleasure of working on a mac clone back in the day for a user. That monster speaker box in the front of that Pioneer is amazing!

[@shelby3822]

Here's the breadth of my experience with the Apple ecosystem...some time like 15ish years ago iTunes began to require Quicktime and I said sod it - I'm out!

[@10p6]

Spectra on the Atari ST was awesome back in the day. Being able to run Mac software on a faster machine, with larger screen, for a fraction of the price was the real start of Hackintosh, or Jackintosh as some referred to it.

[@botty1981]

Great to have you back! Brilliant return video....and the new caves debut.

[@RetroRecipes]

Nice to see you settling cosily into the new cave! 👍🕹️

[@jasedobson2793]

Yay welcome back Neil.looking forward to more from RMC in the new cave :-)

[@AnimalFacts]

No jokes here... but perhaps include a "hair light" on your green screen scenes to help pop you off from the background.

[@goeland4585]

I don't know, the weatherman look suits him :p

[@override7486]

And what difference it would make? Guy is bald like.... any bald guy is. Hitman level, well... almost.

[@charliebrown1006]

Love how you had to say no joke. 😂 A rim light(aka hair light) or even a reflector would do wonders though

[@tumest]

Watching the evolution and choices in your presentation style and production has been really really nice over the years. Here's to another year of great videos!

[@nilz23]

The new studio looks great

[@namakudamono]

Lovely to have you back, Neil!

[@RayBrooks0]

Welcome back, Cave Dweller! What a great way to kick off 2021 ☺️

[@bigjnsa]

Nice, I like the new format for this video. Thanks!

[@mailtompowell]

Wonderful feelings of nostalgia. I really wanted one of these back in the day! It also made me recall the BeBox from that era, a rare piece of mid-90’s awesomeness that I’d love to see your channel cover sometime.

[@stevew8513]

My first two Macs were, in fact, clones. A Power Computing 100 was first, it was around $1799 which was far cheaper than the cheapest Macintosh model. I bought a UMAX C-500 240mhz model as a floor model at one of the few electronics chains that carried Macs, it only cost me $500. The next week Apple announced the original iMac. My UMAX C-500 was a bit tricky... I had a Voodoo 1 card that I wanted to replace, so I bought an ATI Rage 128 card for $200, got it home and installed it, and any time something graphically complex came on screen (I believe the game I was playing was Tomb Raider III) the computer would freeze up solid. Turns out the C-500 was using a modified Power Mac 7200 motherboard, which had a PCI 1.0 card slot, rather than the PCI 1.1 slots that became standard after that model. And the ATI card couldn't handle it. So I returned it, and bought a PC Voodoo 3 card and flashed the ROM to make it Mac compatible. Since the Voodoo 3 didn't officially get made for the Mac not much software took advantage of it, and the heat it generated used to keep my room toasty in the winter. I used to modify and upgrade those machines quite a lot, it was always nice to be able to get inside the case and throw in CD burners and such. I miss those days.

[@FrazerSmithsChannel]

Strictly speaking it was just the PC bios that was reverse-engineered. The hardware (and software) was all off-the-shelf anyway.

[@JETJOOBOY]

Shut up...

[@pronstorestiffi]

Great video Niel.

[@CrazyTechReviews]

Very nice vid! Cool to see my buddy Steve in there as well!

[@bwgti]

Great video. Hope all is well at the new carve.

[@MorganJustGames]

Great Video Neil. The Cave is looking great too, some quality items on that background behind you. Nice addition with the Webcam and Green Screen now, very good indeed. Hope your well.

[@TheRetroShack]

Just about to do a full refurb series on an LC475 so this was very interesting! Great video again!

[@GerardKean]

I'd like to see a what-if where commodore didn't melt down and out mac'd apple during that period

[@TheJeremyHolloway]

The Atari ST - and not the Amiga - was the fastest Macintosh back then courtesy of the Magic Sac Macintosh hardware emulator. And thanks to it, the Atari STacy laptop was the first Macintosh laptop.

[@dglcomputers1498]

Wasn't the main issue with the Apple clones being that they were generally better than Apples offering whilst being cheaper, quite important for the power users.

[@blunderingfool]

Ding.

[@darkalligator]

Still the same situation, overpriced with less powerful hardware than Hackintosh

[@xmlthegreat]

Yup lol. Apple couldn't rip people off anymore so they ended the program.

[@TheSulross]

If a company intends to remain in the hardware business, then it's not really reasonable to license the crown jewels software to direct competitors

[@DanaTheInsane]

Not better. The Frankins were terrible. But nonetheless it was killing them. Steve killed that fast.

[@davidlewis1787]

You are bloody dapper and delightfully pleasing on the eye

[@EsotericArctos]

I can understand why it was not favourable financially for licensed clones. Sometimes keeping everything in house can be better. Thanks for the memories. I do remember having an apple clone back in the day.

[@DavidStahlOLDHAPPyMACs]

Great Video Quite An Amazing History About The Apple Clones

[@MrTibbs90]

I loved watching this. It was really a good review of the Apple Clone history. You should do a video on the history of OS/x.

[@ghostmouthzach56]

Another excellent video, Neil! Cheers.

[@kins749]

Love to see that Pioneer working and pumping up the volume!

[@andreash.2336]

Love your channel and your videos. It´s always a pleasure for me to watch them. Yes, the "hackintosh´s" are also a very interesting story to tell.

[@Flashy7]

in the first half of the video I could not concentrate on your storytelling because of the gorgeous hairstyles and glasses and clothes in the old clips :D

[@nateswanson2443]

New set looks amazing, video is very interesting

[@hhgttm]

I have fond memories of the clones. My dad bought his first Mac OS machine in 1996 which was a Computer Warehouse Manhattan clone. CW were an established Apple dealer ran big multi-page adverts in all the UK Mac magazines. They then launched their own clone range named after cities - I remember Paris being another model. The Manhattan tower was pitched as being equivalent PowerMac 8500, but in reality was a PowerMac 4400 in a tower case. One sad thing was that when the machine developed a fault only a few years into its life, the clone era had ended and CW no longer supported the hardware! It was bodge fixed by a local PC repair firm and then promptly gave up entirely just a few months later! My university also had UMAX branded clones in 1999.

[@RobertRitter]

I love what the new space is allowing you to do with your production. Top drawer!

[@HeadsetGuy]

Wow, that M-Power that Steve showed off looked surprisingly like a Packard Bell, especially the power button... I wonder if the same company that designed the cases for Packard Bell, Frog, also designed the cases for APS?

[@Mac84]

I wouldn't put it past them. I believe a lot of UMAX clones used similar, or the same, cases from Dell machines. It was just another way to keep the cost down.

[@RetrogradeScene]

Great episode! So many changes of tune on the clone front. Especially considering the lawsuit around the Franklin Apple II clones.

[@steveskipper6473]

Just noticed that during the iconic Macintosh commercial @4:28 there is a bloke that closely resembles a shocked Steve Balmer. Coincidence?

[@dpbyoutube]

Another great video. Really informative, thank you! How’s the new cave coming along?

[@RMCRetro]

Great thank you, you'll get an update video on the building of it next week and I'm taking a break from building a wall right now

[@JETJOOBOY]

Informative and utterly pointless.

[@MrPeteykins]

I remember this era so well. I had a Mac Performa 6300, and my friend bought a clone, I think maybe a Umax, and it was no end of trouble.

[@8BitRetroJournal]

Nice to have you back...hard to tell you are in a new studio so nicely transitioned. I also liked your "Paul Harvey" moment of "the rest of the story" :-/ BTW, I think it's "coup" not "queue" when pronouncing Apple's home.

[@dragonmac1234]

It's good to see you back Neil. I hope the office move went smoothly, I assume it did as you've started making videos again :-)

[@ThecrackpotdadPlus]

Great episode.

[@lordhostile]

I miss my G3 upgraded Power Computing Clone. The chassis on those were basically an intel clone chassis and ATX PSU. In fact I used that machine in an Antec chassis for some years before I got my G4 and later G5 towers. Great video! Cheers from Las Vegas!

[@goclunker]

All G3s and G4’s are pretty close to standard ATX, just have to rearrange a few pins and join a few others. My dual G4s ran on ATX 800W supplies when the original 250W crapped out. Best mod I’ve ever done

[@Thealienbreed]

Great video :)

[@Spengali1]

Really interesting watch and I'd almost forgotten that Mac clones existed even though I lived in the US during those exciting mid-90s days! Also loving the new picture-in-picture Neil feature although it does feel like I should be seeing some sign language when watching him there.

[@trevorboys9140]

Great video and really thought provoking. I remember thinking at the time Apple just needed to license their OS, I'd never thought that Apple is fundamentally a hardware company.

[@cheaterman49]

6:15 Hahahaha, I wasn't gonna mention it, but I was thinking exactly the same about MSX :-) glad you did mention it!

[@MrDuncl]

Not quite the same. Microsoft specified the hardware, but never released their own machine. When I think of Microsoft hardware back then my first thought was mice. Before every PC came with one they were one of the largest manufacturers.

[@JohnnyOrgan]

Liking the look of the new set. Very nice.

[@offrails]

The ARM transition means that I can now run Mac OS on an Archimedes, right?

[@RobA500]

Great and very interesting video. I like the format with a bit of history then show the machines and rap it up with the conclusion. You seem to have settled in to the new cave well, I trust that the Atari ST cupboard hasn't been filled up yet😉.

[@zxrenew5642]

Nice video Neil. I enjoyed that, very entertaining and informative. I think there were earlier clones of apple products as well. One that springs to mind was the Orange! lol!

[@mikeuk666]

new cave is looking great

[@hotrod3161]

good video neil ! hey look at steve on the RMC ! steve does live streams that are always a treat !

[@MSmith-Photography]

I was a tech support agent back in the late 90s and thought it was wild that there were Mac clones. 🤣

[@fsfs555]

Your MPC-LX200 is basically a 100MHz variant of the Mac 62/63xx series in a nicer case with an excellent integrated sound system. You can probably resurrect it by recapping the power supply (a custom Matsushita unit). You'll also want to replace the cone support rubber on the subwoofer because it's likely completely disintegrated by now.

[@gentuxable]

19:32 "The CPU is soldered on the board" well at least that's Apple-ly.

[@CaptainCaveman1170]

Splendid video.

[@rigues]

WOW! Action GoMac! I had that on my iMac G3 back in the OS 8 days. Loved to use Kaleidoscope too, to theme the UI.

[@TheJeremyHolloway]

"The Magic Sac. Turns your Atari into a Mac!" That little cartridge was extremely popular with Atari ST owners back in the day. Apple threatened their own dealers attempting to prevent them from selling MacOS ROM chips to ST owners for their Magic Sacs. But thanks to the Magic Sac, the first Mac laptop was the Atari STacy. God times. Oh, I think you forgot about the Microsoft SoftCard for the Apple II line. It included RAM and a Z80 CPU to run Digital Research's CP/M operating system on the Apple II. It was actually the most popular CP/M configuration back then. That was years before Microsoft started selling mice and other hardware. The other thing to remember about the Mac licensing agreements was that the intent was to increase the size of the Macintosh platform and attract more - and new - users who would normally buy PC compatibles. But apparently it ended up cannibalizing Apple's existing customer base more than it did attracting new customers... or at least that's what Jobs wanted everyone to believe...

I just got a PPC Mac! Dont make me want more PPC! Im out of storage space XD Good video, nice editing! I like the new cave! Its nice with more Mac stuff, theirs SO much software for OS 8-9 its like a howl new world to explore. Going on a retro mini Lan tomorrow with a Mac G4 myself so I'm totally hyped now :P

[@mhoppy6639]

Great video as per usual. As I said somewhere on here before, you can get much more in-depth information from Walter Isaacson is biography of jobs which covers the clones issue extensively. I can wholeheartedly recommend it. Nails done a great job with the fundamentals of this. Thank you RMC

[@lemagreengreen]

Interesting video, I never saw any of these clones back then. Then again I didn't see many Apple computers in the 90s UK at all!

[@MrGoatflakes]

I remember some of these things being absolute beasts. One was a quad core stupidly fast deal with an insane amount of memory.

[@ArtoPekkanen]

I have a Power Computing / Power Center 240. It is a Mac clone that looks like an old midi tower PC. These were produced between 1995-1997. These days they are extremely rare, since most of them were thrown away.

[@michaelmiller641]

Fascinating!

[@lactobacillusprime]

Loved this overview! And ooooh that Pioneer Powermac - wow! Sadly the licensed Apple Mac clone-period happened smack in the middle of bad cap-era but there's always hope that the clone systems were built to withstand the test of time a little better than the original apple 68K and early powerPC macs. A lot of my original machines have severely failed due to caps and batteries over the years.

[@UnixGoldBoy]

I am not sure how I am already subscribed to this channel as I don't remember doing so....

[@MathieuBurgerhout]

Hi Neil, love what you did with the cave. I can't help to see that the white balance is quite off between shots. Even in the thumbnail ;)

[@stevencarlson5422]

i must see the restore vid on that pioneer one and be interesting to see how well it sounds too

[@marklechman2225]

The first computer my folks ever bought was a used Apple II+ in 1983. Then next one was a Motorola Starmax in ‘96 or ‘97. Can’t recall the model but it had a 603 running at 130 MHz. I loved it, but it was not quite up to the task of running some of the newer games I wanted to play at the time. So I convinced my folks to upgrade to a PowerBase 240 (and it included a modem!) a year or so later. For my folks, the Starmax was more than powerful enough to do their household tasks, so I got to load up the PowerBase with tons of games, and it became my main machine for many years afterwards. It was pretty badass.

[@SMAAAASHTV]

I had a Power Computing PowerBase 240 when I was younger and later had a Power Tower 275 for a short time.

[@brianh9358]

When Adobe, Macromedia, and other graphic software companies started coming out with Windows versions of their software the situation for Apple became dire. I worked at a printing company at the time and we considered switching to Windows PCs for graphic design when equivalent software became available. However when the new Mac clones came out we opted to buy those instead because at least we could stay in the "Apple" ecosystem. I think the clone strategy was a somewhat desperate attempt to keep the Mac market share from shrinking further. If professional graphic design software developers had completely jumped ship to Windows at that time the Mac might not have survived.

[@Colin_Ames]

I have never owned an Apple computer, genuine or clone, but I thoroughly enjoyed this history lesson. Thanks Neil.

[@willaimwoods4841]

new set looks classy af

[@londongaz2]

I was just thinking, I wonder when Neil will be back!

[@lancepelissier5510]

My fav mac clone was the apple pippin system even though I never had one. The Pippin OS was just the same idea as Windows CE but with more powerful hardware running be-hide it.

[@kibawolf2501]

im not sure if you have talked about the green screen in a previous episode like the update video, but i really do enjoy it