RNG MANIPULATION - SUB 3 SPEEDRUN - Hades Any Heat in

[@jio21]

imagine moving so fast that dashing actually slows you

[@klassmagicker]

that is without a doubt, one of the most impressive runs I have ever witnessed. Thank you for toiling to get this run.

[@catalystactual6491]

HOLY SHIT, the bonus move speed was insane + damage increase based on move speed from Hermes. On top of that you pumped of special damage like 5 times from Chaos. Insane build and crazy impressive execution. Wish I could have heard commentary dubbed over after or something

[@SpaceLion444]

"My name is Zagreus, and I am the fastest god alive" Hermes: "Hey !!"

[@omarmeharab9166]

epic 😎

[@alexspindler1]

Imagine the immense restraint from Zagreus to casually stroll in the snow to face Zeus. Total concentration not to run laps around him as he turns to confront you! That move speed was the treat I never know I was in for when I clicked in this. Wonderful!

[@expiredmilk5435]

You mean hades?

[@alexlun4464]

no i think he meant poseidon@@expiredmilk5435

[@aptalsandvic5355]

You know the speedrun is good when the boss's death animation takes longer than the fight itself.

[@JakeMorin]

This is so insane. Watching Zagreus go through those doors in Styx, lol.

[@PCDisciple]

The rng manip you probably had to do is crazy, how does anyone remember all this

[@cgull6980]

You memorize it after long enough, but it's also an ingame time category so you can pause to check your notes. When running this route we utilized a program called SplitNotes that superimposed notes over the gameplay for us & stream viewers to see. This was recorded offline so you can't see it but in the WR by Vorime you can see an example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJ62c5R5aZJ-mtU

[@PCDisciple]

@@cgull6980 thank you, that's pretty cool to see!

[@dollynho8832]

Wow, got into Hades recently and watching these runs make me speechless. It's so impressive! (And the speed! Lol) Can't imagine the time and skill it must take.

[@howdoiturnssj3]

The Hades fight is sooo satisfying like that...

[@rbarry413]

Haha holy shit legit got chills at the end. Absolute wizardry

[@dariussonofjazzlin7433]

12:28 Theseus down bad 👀

[@PinkAmpharos]

Yo this is wild. Truly Hermes' protoge with how fast you were going

[@kranx2690]

Seeing you kill the bull and the other guy was so satisfying they always end up kicking my ass

[@d.j.casanova960]

You wouldn’t happen to be the same cgull I’m constantly seeing in Haelians Twitch chat? Either way, I’m subscribing lol.

[@cgull6980]

yeah dats me lol

[@CatherinetheMewsthebestMTB]

Cluster rockets my beloved

[@flareify6903]

WHAT KIND OF GODLIKE BUILD IS MANS USING WTF

[@shanecastleberry4176]

Theseus: “Come-“

[@Mr-gz6or]

the art of speedrun

[@marufranco5281]

This is the closest thing to a TAS, this is why i cannot wait until it is possible to do TAS of PS4 games and onwards (Or any PC game but that's asking for too much),

[@cgull6980]

Yeah, some of our community members have tried doing some TAS work for Hades but the compatibility is just too much of a headache. They got as far as grabbing the first boon but everything after that just fell apart and was impossible :( TAS would enable in-combat RNG and stupidly fast and precise RNG manips which would be incredible.

[@marufranco5281]

@@cgull6980 I think at that point it would be "easier" to emulate the entire console for TAS purposes because i imagine reverse engineering the game itself on PC would be too much work considering Hades 2 is coming out. I say "easier" because you hit many birds with the same stone. I am not tech savvy enough about the implications of doing with Hades alone but i am pretty sure it would be similar to implementing rollback netcode (for a single player game) as you have to implement savestate support which entails to basically rebuilding the entire game itself, insanely complicated stuff even if you were the developer. But who knows maybe in the future AI will do stuff useful for TASing these games, maybe they will be able to code the tools, hack the game for compatibility or maybe even play the games themselves

[@atiredcliche]

Lol I just assumed it was a TAS

[@Piper_of_Hamelin]

I know you're interacting with the mod when you go through the menus like that and perform seemingly nonsensical actions repeatedly, but without seeing that other interface (if it even has a GUI at all) makes it look like you are plagued by OCD. lol Excellent run! Thanks for sharing!

[@ritwikism]

The run is not modded, only seeded. When menuing he isn't interacting with the mod, but rather doing RNG manipulation.

[@joaomarcelobrandao1487]

Bruh. This is bizarre. I need to try this

[@Edwin_Gan]

Asterius: (bend over) Thesus: 12:29

[@all-starsilver1835]

You're playing a completely different game right here wth

[@Colphin]

Game is easy when you know every room and choice beforehand. He's modding to get perfect rng.

[@kevinwells9751]

​@@Colphin He didn't mod to get perfect rng, he has a known starting save file and seed and is using the random things he does (opening and closing menus and whatnot) to manipulate the rng from there

[@Colphin]

@@kevinwells9751 In other words, he knows the entire layout and is modifying his run (by resetting RNG).

[@all-starsilver1835]

@@Colphin Even if he knows what rooms he'll get, he still has to actually _play_ them... which is easier said than done, trust me

[@jio21]

my mind is blown sir GG indeed

[@Tam-il1hc]

Hey I saw Vorime running this route the other day on stream. Such a rough one to execute.

[@alexlun4464]

Love these speedruns, sub 3 min but the video is 16 minutes long.

[@ph_guestnoob7127]

Zagreus is possessed by hermes

[@mechanikxd5474]

I guess without input buffering this would be MUCH MUCH harder...

[@thebilliestsilly]

i wanna see a cut of this that's only the gameplay parts that count towards the timer

[@vinh_han]

so much bonus move speed lol

[@Dasol203]

SPEED !

[@BagelBoi4000]

Why take the acorn into styx? Part of the rng manipulation or assurance?

[@cgull6980]

prevents getting hit during hades fight, allows for ignoring spawns and just getting instaphases with rockets. no other keepsake does anything damagewise, since we're already at insta-phase territory.

[@droctowiz5968]

How come you have 0 clears and 50 clears at the time ? On the end screen

[@abhisdn4175]

Holy shit that's so cool

[@MrEdwardpullman]

Amazing. Wondering why you took the cast damage bonus from chaos instead of the dark strike damage. Truly incredible run

[@cgull6980]

that late in the run the buff from chaos is not relevant, it was only used for skipping a combat room. damage is so high from rush delivery that anything chaos can offer is a drop in the bucket

[@alonsosanchezmarazuela5943]

8:52 why does he do that???

[@liorweber4459]

Great run! Would you mind sharing the starting seed? I don't see it on the route notes you posted and I'd love to try this route out myself!

[@cgull6980]

You actually can't do it with just the starting seed, you need to be on the same save file as well, you can find it in the #routed-runs channel on the speedrunning discord, along with some more resources: discord.gg/zN7cc8Z/

[@Samis360pro]

Why do you start shooting everywhere and open up your menu and stuff in the bouldy room? btw this run is insane man

[@cgull6980]

Shooting everywhere: clearing shades away, since their movement calls RNG and puts you off route. Once they're gone, I talk to sisyphus and get the reward, which resets the RNG, now with no shades to screw things up. Codex - calls RNG when opening god boon menus, so it's part of the RNG manip, done once the RNG resets so the shades aren't a problem anymore

[@Samis360pro]

@@cgull6980 oooh ok makes sense, i would love to see u do speedruns with the more unpopular weapon aspects haha that could be fun!

[@stealthy9156]

God damn

[@danielkushner5963]

Holy shit dude

[@Bas1lio]

What has he done with a Stone??

[@Dhieen]

wtf is happening in bouldy's room hahahaha

[@cgull6980]

The shades' movement increments RNG which throws off the manipulations. Getting the doors unlock resets it, so by clearing them out then talking to sisyphus you end up in a consistent state each time. After that, everything done is creating a precise number of RNG calls to receive a 10% movement speed buff from Bouldy, and make sure we end up in the correct room for the rest of the route.

[@marcofortunati9989]

what's up with opening and closing the caron shop many times?

[@freb]

Manipulating RNG

[@goldenhorde6944]

Are Nyx's appearances manipulable as well?

[@cgull6980]

Not within a run, she has a chance to appear every X runs (don't remember off the top of my head), and she appears in every chaos gate until you talk to her once, then she does not appear further in a run.

[@Flight_of_focus]

Is it just me or does the clock stop in a lot of places that it shouldn’t?

[@cgull6980]

nope, full vanilla. which parts do you mean? timer always stops in survival rooms and thanatos encounters

[@Multowz]

lmao this is so funny

[@EvaneroBananero]

Can I manipulate rng on console?

[@cgull6980]

Yes, but creating a route would be difficult and take a long time. If you imported this save file that we use from the route onto console, you could theoretically execute it the same way, would just be difficult

[@deathcorim]

12:37 huh?

[@yoshi_oz]

wtf did i just watch...

[@UHDH]

fast

[@cgull6980]

[@dientner2088]

Like, whaaaaat? P.S. Amazing 🤩

[@dasd7929]

holy f

[@AnastasiaVechna]

wats going on

[@ZANT85]

I just want to make sure, is this with cheats or mods or anything ive just never seen zag run that fa bro

[@cgull6980]

Mods were used to construct the route and determine what RNG manipulations needed to happen, but the run itself is 100% no mods no Cheats vanilla, we just found out What To Do.

[@asterix4621]

can the styx tunnels be manipulated or only the sack room?

[@cgull6980]

every room is manipulated for good enemies (e.g. no tiny rats) and a good miniboss (no vermin)

[@unai49999]

Is this even legal??

[@cgull6980]

Yes! There's a less popular subcategory on the speedrun leaderboards for Seeded runs that are these sorts of runs entirely. That's the great thing about speedrunning, is many variations of the game can be "legal"/tracked independently, so it's never "cheating" despite what some people think sometimes, it's just always within the bounds of a category agreed upon by runners.

[@cgull6980]

Unless you meant like IRL legal in which case no, it's not, I'm currently on the run from the FBI

[@unai49999]

@@cgull6980 yeah, I meant irl😂😂. Idgaf about life comodity mods and seeded saves, it's impressive af either way. Rng manipulation allways seems like magic to me.

[@costeadavid3790]

What app do you use to know what is the next chamber, as far as i can see in your right mid screen?

[@cgull6980]

That's SplitNotes

[@costeadavid3790]

@@cgull6980 only pc, but not consoles such as xbox?

[@NexhiAlibias]

​@@costeadavid3790mods seemingly only exist like that only on PC due to how easily you can mod a PC game

[@magicmaddie5287]

Why do you play with heat on? i understand EM and FO but why BP?

[@djtridium]

My guess is that it effects the enemies that spawn in each chamber to avoid certain ones and help with rng manipulation…that would be my guess anyways

[@ludi1787]

​@@djtridiumClose , despite Forced Overtime making enemies move and attack faster , they spawn faster as well , making the run faster , extreme measures 2 is heavily focused on the Lernie fight rather than the Fury sisters , since the map is smaller and the heads are closer together , so it's a swift sweep , as long as ur able to overcome the Triple / Duo sister fight.

[@D-Dova]

Whenever i see seeded runs i just think modded cheating in my head its a great skilled run but having rng removed is basically cheating rng is the whole aspect of the game

[@cgull6980]

it's a separate category... nobody is pretending this is "faster" than an unseeded run, they're completely incomparable and take different skillsets. Calling it cheating is a huge disrespect to the dozens of hours of hard work the router & runners put into getting the run this way. How can it be "cheating" when it adheres to unique rules agreed upon by a community?