Road to 48V - Take 2 | Apexium DIY Battery Box | Part 1

[@rickgarner2458]

Looking forward to part 2. Thanks for the info! Rick G. in Georgia.

[@DADvinci]

@rickgarner2458 Hey Rick! Sorry it's taken longer than expected. I've given up with solar charging the cells (UK weather has been terrible) for the initial build and currently charging off expensive grid energy to get it done (8 cells done, another 8 cells to go). Once all charged and top balanced, I'll get on with construction. I'm really looking forward to it now! All the best, Adrian

[@LRDefender1968]

Morning Adrian, You are now moving into areas that I don’t understand, so more learning for me then! 12V I semi understand what I’m doing, I use 12V solar panels, I now have 7no 100w Renogy panels that feed my Aferiy 2000 and my Bluetti EB70. 24V and 48V I’m a bit lost, do you need different solar panels now? What are the advantages of 24V and 48V in layman’s terms please? So you are building a large battery in essence that you are going to hook up to a large inverter to distribute the power accordingly? Sorry to be such a noob 😂 Kind regards Tony

[@DADvinci]

@LRDefender1968 Hey Tony! Well, you're already using 48V batteries 😃. Your Aferiy 2000 has a 48V LiFePO4 at the heart of it, just using a 32130 'more traditional' cylindrical cell, unlike the prismatic cells featured in this video. The whole 12V panel piece can be a little misleading. I think a better way to describe it as is a panel for charging a 12V battery. Essentially, to help current flow (charge a battery) you need a higher voltage to make this happen. '12V' panels can produce anything from 16-18V when connected in decent sun, so this would be higher than a 12V battery voltage range, allowing current to flow and charging to take place. If you think of a 12V battery and a '12V' solar panel in isolation, when sun hits the panel the voltage would go up and current could flow into the battery. The BMS and solar charge controller (included in the all-in-ones) would help regulate this voltage to properly charge the battery. In terms of LiFePO4, its nominal (reference voltage) is 3.2V. Think of a standard alkaline Duracell AA, it has a reference voltage of 1.5V. You put 4 x 3.2V LiFePO4 prismatic cells in series to get a 12V LiFePO4 battery (12.8V reference voltage usually on the side of the batteries). Then put 2 of these 12V batteries in series to get a 24V LiFePO4 or 4 x 12V in series to get the 48V. When it comes to panels and charging larger systems at 24V and 48V, you'll need to get the voltage in the 'window' the solar input needs to enable the solar charge controller to manage charging the battery. This can be done in two ways, buying larger panels or connecting the panels in series (again ensuring the voltage hits the range needed for the charge controller to do its thing) or mixing series and parallel to land in the right range. The ultimate question in all of this is, what do you want to run (how much does it consume whether AC or DC load) and how long do you want to run it for (battery capacity). Forgetting capacity for now, say I wanted to run a 3000W load (my fast boil kettle or my dishwasher and half my toaster at the same time) 12V (12.8V for LiFePO4) I'd need to have a battery/breaker/cables/inverter capable of handling around 234A (12.8V x 234.38A = 3000W) 24V (25.6V for LiFePO4) I'd need the same to handle around 117A (25.6V x 117.19A = 3000W) 48V (51.2V for LiFePO4) I'd need the same to handle around just 58.6A (51.2V x 58.6A = 3000W) Essentially, the higher the voltage the less current, the lower the voltage the higher the current. It all boils down to the calculation Volts x Amps = Watts. Big current needs bigger cable and current carrying capability. Increasing the voltage reduces this need and you can generally run larger loads (watts). This is why you'll see solar inverters have smaller output (watts) on 12V, they increase on 24V and get up to large watts on 48V. For me, British weather is unpredictable, this year being a classic example. Summer sun seemingly disappearing at the start of July. I'm not concerned with sunny or partial sunny days, it's the 3-4 day mark where it doesn't shine and my current capacity (around 6.5kWh) can't last that long. Running simultaneous larger loads at the same time like the dishwasher, washing machine, microwave, induction hob will be possible (6kW solar inverter ordered). I think I'm going to make a video(s) covering some rough guides to battery storage and solar power. I hope this helps a little and please shout if you have any further questions. I've learnt all this by absorbing. We all start out as noobs, then experts are born. I’m not an expert, just someone who’s always wanted to understand how things work. Cheers, Adrian

[@LRDefender1968]

Thank you so much Adrian for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply! I shall read and keep on rereading this until it fully sinks in, it’s so interesting what you are doing, it’s such a rabbit hole to go down, I’m finding the journey fascinating. Keep up the great work Sir, you are helping the community selflessly. Kind regards Tony

[@chuckbrodie8258]

Do the 280ah cells come with the kit or do you have to purchase your cells separately?

[@DADvinci]

@chuckbrodie8258 Good day and thanks for your question. The cells and box are separate, but I tried them from the same supplier as a package. So, if you do find a better deal on the cells and you like the battery box, you could source from different suppliers. Here are the costs from the full build video (kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpPGnXmgjtCarbMsi=I6DWQzkaqd05mboI&t=2949). I've bought the same package again to double capacity and because the price of cells from the supplier have dropped since, it's cheaper overall (another video to come once it arrives). The price of cells can change quite a lot. I hope this answers your question. All the best, Adrian

[@rroy3843]

so the Batteries are a separate purchase from the Cabinet?

[@DADvinci]

@rroy3843 Good day and thanks for your question. You can source the batteries separately; I bought them as a kit and got a reasonable deal from one supplier (Docan). The full build (Part 2) is covered in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpPGnXmgjtCarbM if you wanted to take a look. If you check out the description in that video, each section is broken down so you don't have to watch the whole thing (cost breakdown is part of it). I've just ordered another, which was less as the cells (as part of the package from Docan) have dropped in price. I've also got a heating pad and the parallel cables to connect both battery boxes together to test out this time. Still came in about £100 cheaper than the first one I built due to cell price which does fluctuate. All the best, Adrian

[@supermo26]

Have you built or seen EEL or Seplos biy battery box?

[@DADvinci]

@jamesmossettiii8936 Hey James! I've seen the Seplos and it very much looks the same as this Apexium one, just a different label? I've not seen or built the EEL. Is it also similar to this one? Cheers, Adrian

[@supermo26]

@@DADvinci very similar. Prices are all over the place for no good reason.

[@houseofancients]

​@@DADvinciit is the same, docan simply relabels it...

[@KavanOBrien]

Will you also give the cost of everything at the end of part two please.

[@DADvinci]

@kavanobrien6547 Yes, for sure. This package (delivered) from Docan worked out at £1,872 (after credit card fee and conversion from USD) if that helps. If the cells provide over 290Ah (fingers crossed), after capacity testing, that may get me a 15kWh battery. All the best, Adrian

[@KavanOBrien]

@@DADvinci I don’t know very much about the subject just looking around to see what’s available, 15 kw is good compared to these power walls from different companies, will be watching your videos to see how you put them together. Thanks for reply.

[@DADvinci]

@kavanobrien6547 I'd be glad to help where needed. I've just answered another viewer in this thread that might be useful to provide additional understanding. I also mention making a video or two about battery storage and solar power. Once this stuff clicks, it's hard to put it down. Cheers, Adrian

[@KavanOBrien]

@@DADvinci thanks look forward to other videos by you, take care.

[@jimdaly5077]

👍👍👍🐝🌞

[@iviemaro380]

How much do you purchase each cell

[@DADvinci]

@iviemaro380 Thanks for your question. For this first build they were $95 per cell (without shipping or import taxes). My current order which is on the way from China (the same battery box + cells) is $72 per cell (without shipping or import taxes). The price for cells can fluctuate significantly so it's always worth asking the supplier for best price before purchase. I hope this helps. All the best, Adrian

[@PaulPaid]

How much for the box?

[@DADvinci]

@paulpaid Thanks for your question Paul. The first box cost - kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpPGnXmgjtCarbMsi=Qsh1jFYQBMrmA_L8&t=2949 and the second box with cell price drop was - kzbin.info/www/bejne/j2XHlpmLebponq8si=M_aiFg4qy9pYPgdM&t=1015. I hope this helps. All the best, Adrian

[@PaulPaid]

@@DADvinci I'm sorry but that link is even more confusing. Is that why you can't simply state the price of the box??

[@DADvinci]

@paulpaid Sorry, I'll clarify. The first box cost £1,872.26 in total and the second box with additional cables and heat pads cost a total of £1,735.28. If it was just the box like the first one and not the cables + heat pad, it would have been under £1,700. The prices vary on what I can get from the supplier (sometimes the cells are cheaper than others, depends on their stock levels). I hope this covers it? Cheers, Adrian

[@PaulPaid]

@@DADvinci Absolutely ridiculous prices. One could buy 25 320ah cells for that much money. I see the box for $400-700 usd on Alibaba. No possible justification for the 1,872 pound sterling ($2,375 USD) price gouging ...other than sheer greed! which belies the very spirit of green energy.

[@DADvinci]

@paulpaid I'm not sure what you mean and you've focused on the first box price which was when the cells cost more, as I've already said. It's under £1,700 for 15kWh of storage in a purpose made box. There's also shipping costs on top which is part of any purchase (including cells). If you have a cheaper price for the whole case kit (which includes the BMS), new 280Ah EVE V3 cells or larger and shipping, please do share as I'm sure other viewers would love to see a lower price. If you know of any manufacturers that sell ready-made 300Ah or larger (15kWh or more) batteries for less than £1,700, delivered, please also share. Thanks.