The REAL Reason Influencer Brands Are Failing | And Why Some Are Thriving

[@RobertWelsh]

Follow me on TikTok for exclusive content! ✌🏼- www.tiktok.com/@robertwelshmua?_t=8epzotrohIu&_r=1

[@lostgirl8508]

Question, this isn’t on subject, but what do you recommend, for helping with mascara getting on your under eyes???? I have such a issue with this, it’s driving me crazy, or maybe I’m to ocd about this issue, thanks in advance ❤❤❤❤

[@Evil_T]

Thanks, but nah.. lol😂

[@LuonnonkosmetiikkaWithDeli]

Noup. I will watch KZbin.

[@MannyMua733]

the way i have a parasocial relationship with you… in my head we’re besties

[@RobertWelsh]

😂😂🖤🖤🖤 we are!!

[@notjustanotherbrickinthewall]

You two are my dream collab. 💖 Hopefully 🤞🏼

[@aunpaidintern7035]

Seggsual pr3dat0r apologist.

[@aunpaidintern7035]

@@boleynaddcock James lost his brother over the allegations, his own flesh and blood, but MannyMooch is ok being all buddy buddy with an admitted gr00mer.

[@notjustanotherbrickinthewall]

@@boleynaddcock Manny has improved so much since he was cancelled. We don’t know what his relationship is with James and why he chooses to support him. I don’t like James Charles, never liked him actually even when there was a hype around him.

[@jackieaina]

so here I am…watching and vibing and then Forvr Mood pops up! hehehe thank you! I enjoyed this video and this topic a lot! As a recent brand founder and a creator these are my thoughts in a nutshelll: everyone can’t be a brand founder and everything does not need to be a brand lol. Every time I post something, pretty much daily, people do tend to say “that should be your next brand” “you should start your own___” etc a lot of times the audience, when they really like a creator and see them talk about something frequently in their content, will urge a creator to create their own. For some creators it may be hard to navigate that without getting caught up….But if you’re going to put your name on something it should be because you have the investment, business plan, foresight, labor, vision, a very clear and intentional “why” and not just the initial excitement. I kinda blame grind/hustle culture lol I also wish consumers had a more realistic picture of what entrepreneurship is and what it requires, especially for Black founders who are still majority underfunded. Most small startups fail (brand ownership is not as easy as it looks lol) so as a consumer and creator it has always shaped how I speak about brands publicly as well!!

[@RobertWelsh]

Jackie! thank you so much for commenting! It’s amazing to hear from you as someone who clearly loves what they do. It shows in your brand. Also in the way you hear your customers and continue to make your brand better and better. Now I don’t have my own brand but the thought of it is incredibly intimidating as I would want to dedicate so much time into one, and like you said…. Be more than prepared! I think a lot of people would assume that because an influencer gets a brand they just stick their name on it … super easy and done. What you mentioned about the underfunding of black brand founders as well, there is always that one commenter - “why do you have to mention it’s black owned who cares! Just buy a brand who’s products you like” explains (to any one reading this) why purchasing from black owned brands is important to not only discover brands you may have not known existed, but to keep those brands alive and in business because they have good products. Also thank you for watching 🥹

[@Undrconst]

People say that to you because they are your audience and literally telling you what they’ll put their money behind. You went into candle making, why? Nobody asked you for that hence why you have to do a whole rebrand as a new company (it’s too early for that as a company). People don’t know you as the candle lady your audience knew you from MAKEUP that is your bread and butter. Even skin care would have been a good thing for you to invest in. That’s what you are known for! It seems you chose something that is (or you thought) was a money grab. When I hear Jackie Aina, I hear beauty and makeup I don’t hear or see “candles”. So yes not everything should be a brand however it’s idle to listen to your audience especially since that’s who helped you get to where you are today, regardless how you feel about that.

[@palettesandpans]

I so appreciate your thoughts on this and the time you took to consider the topic and share such thorough input

[@jackieaina]

@@RobertWelshthank you for saying that! I’m proudest that the effort we put into Forvr Mood shows; we’re in it for the long haul and we have the support and community we’ve built to show for it 🫶🏾

[@jennlecher5604]

I never understood the candle thing, either.

[@TheRealSherBear]

Influencer brand: if the influencer knows the industry, understands colors, understands formulas, etc, yes I will support their brand and them. If they’re just someone who has a random following and is like, “Oh I use shampoo! I’m going to do a hair care line” immediately no. On TT vs YT, on YT I feel I get to know the persons personality and gravitate to those like mine. On TT, I just want to see someone organize their bathroom and vacuum their sofa before I fall asleep. I don’t want their life story or personality, just show me the funny thing your dog did and let me move on.

[@RobertWelsh]

So true!!’ I scroll dog videos on tiktok like crazy!

[@Nicole__Natalia]

Your comment about TT 😂🤣

[@carolbaker2773]

Exactly this, I trust that Brad Mondo probably knows a thing or two about hair products and what works and what is trash. I trust pretty much any drag queen to know good makeup (if it can make a man look like a lady then it can make my face look nice lol). I think Trixi Mattel said it best when she said "I don't want to buy makeup from a hot 20-year-old with no pores or lines, I want to buy it from the 50 yr old smoker that has tanned every day for 40 years. That b*tch knows how to paint her face."

[@keniaakridgearts]

influencer brands promoted so much over consumption. Every brand was releasing 20 plus makeup pallets every 2 months. It was so ridiculous. Plus, the drama was insane and was used to promote even more products.

[@RobertWelsh]

Isn’t it strange how drama is a promotion!!

[@JaniceMba]

@@RobertWelsh it is strange, & odd.

[@keniaakridgearts]

@@RobertWelsh it honestly is, especially since there were some pretty serious/borderline crime allegations being used to sell makeup

[@KurosakiRuka]

I miss the drama, it was such a simple time

[@marig9236]

looking at you colorpop

[@scribe951]

Speaking from experience as a teacher: TikTok cashed in on the shorter attention spans of the younger generation but then also began contributing to it. Every year, I have students who chase instant gratification in class - they try a sum once, they don't get it right, they give up. I'm generalising here but i see this so often. Now think how that translates to make up. They might use the product incorrectly, not get the results they want, then abandon the product AND warn all their friends off of it too.

[@Beeleeteecee]

I’m also a teacher and have seen the same thing. Ugh! I really don’t like TikTok.

[@MsLunachu]

How do you as a teacher work to combat this?

[@scribe951]

@@MsLunachu I try to lead by example, sometimes set them the same task in different ways so they are trying the same thing over and over but don't realise😅

[@parriekeet5511]

Even adults have been negatively impacted by tik tok not to mention kids

[@bruja_cat]

I can also confirm the younger generation are quitters. They abandon anything after any conflict or inconvenience.

[@AKbaby89]

Calling Lisa Eldridge an influencer is like calling Erin Parsons an influencer😂 like no these women are very talented professionals.

[@RobertWelsh]

😂😂 absolutely!

[@margot64fern]

I think of Erin Parsons as a beauty educator/historian. I love her content and learn so much.

[@AKbaby89]

@@margot64fern same, I looove her content! She puts so much research and passion into her content, and she's so fun to learn from! I loved her perfume video she recently did, ive never known so much about perfume! 🤣🙌

[@Nicole__Natalia]

@@AKbaby89 yes her perfume video was amazing! Quality👌🏼

[@sebumpostmortem]

Lady Eldridge and Miss Parsons are ROYALTY✨✨✨

[@CaptainSpunky]

Idk why influencers don't stick with doing collabs with brands. I've spent waaay too much money to find my perfect makeup and skincare products, I'm not going to risk wasting money on an unknown brand that hasn't proven itself to be reliable and quality. Especially not if this is someone's side hustle trying to capitalize on their internet fame! That being said, would I buy something like a limited time eyeshadow or lippie collab between an influencer and an established brand? Yes, those aren't "high risk" or high investment products and I'm more likely to try out something "non-essential" like this with a brand I already trust. Like a tried-and-true product from a well-known brand with an influencer's style.

[@RobertWelsh]

I love when influencers collab with brands! New ideas with already good brands

[@odettavonkasek358]

I’m this way too. Every year I’m excited to see what the Shroud/Batty Bean collab is going to be!

[@TraceyJean]

Same. I'm more likely to purchase an influencer collab with an established brand than I am from a product from the influencer's own brand.

[@debranonya1388]

Why did I watch the video hoping it was a contrived way to tell us he was starting a brand so I could buy ALL the things 😂

[@GabbieCh]

You have a point, but also, I personally would always wait for the reviews and everything to come out before I decide to buy. I don't care about the hype, I care more about whether it's a good product, so that also does the job for me.

[@KatBlaque]

Loved this topic and video As someone who’s been on KZbin since day one and as a person just finding a modicum of success with short form content, I have a lot to say: I’ve been going to Vid Con for the past 7 or so years and the one thing Ive observed about the TikTok crowd is that they almost never return as often as I have. Every year there’s a new person or persons that have exploded that I have never heard of and while the numbers are impressive, the success feels like it’s very short lived. I think everyone defines success differently and for some creators it looks like having a million subscribers on TikTok. For me it looks like being able to make pay my bills, live comfortably and have leisure. I have just shy of a half million on KZbin and to some people that would define me as a “small youtuber”. I don’t get the views others get. That may sound like I’m failing hit the reality is I’m quite comfortable. I get paid quite well for public speaking and I can say there are people who’ve followed me for a decade and likely will continue to do so. I have a long career that has sustained the interest of enough people to consistently live comfortably and that has long term value. Short form content is really amazing imo. I didn’t get it at first but I do now. The difference is by the nature of short form content, so many of the viral moments that come from them are so short lived that people don’t stick in your mind. The trends are more popular than the people. The most known are the ones who popularize the trends themselves, perform their own version or create something unique. I think for sustained success, TikTok creators should consider creating more long form content or at least content that exists beyond TikTok. I think right now making both is the key to success. I find my short form audience is way different than my long form audience. As VidCon has become more tiktok focused, I’ve seen less people come. There’s a large and passionate group of mostly younger people who come for a few of these TikTok stars and that’s what they cater to more these days. But I have not seen these TikTok stars necessarily maintain ongoing success until they create something independent of TikTok (like a brand) that even people who aren’t in a parasocial relationship want

[@EmEm872]

I just watched your latest video yesterday. Thankyou for always talking about interesting, inclusive and important topics. ❤

[@juliadandy6019]

Always interesting and great to see your views on topics, Kat!!!! ❤

[@DinoSarma]

Part of it is age, for us viewers. I’m 41 years old. I don’t want short videos where some kid screams at me trying to get me to react. If I’m watching something, it’s because I’m by myself and want to relax. Give me a 30 minute dissertation on a topic. I don’t pay all that money for KZbin premium to watch freaking shorts. Ew. No thanks. I’d rather have someone who’s confident in what they’re saying have a discussion with me, because it took me a good long while to curate my subscriptions list to one where I enjoy who I watch.

[@hardyorange]

"I find my short form audience is way different than my long form audience." I've seen other KZbinrs talk about this even when comparing yt shorts to their main long form videos! SolidarityGaming is a Minecrafter who had two shorts go relatively viral and suddenly gained 400,000 subscribers in under 20 days, pushing him over 1M total subscribers. However, in the video he did about this growth, he said the number of comments and views he gets on his regular videos has barely changed despite there being nearly twice as many people allegedly interested in his content, and it's almost like his shorts and main videos are on two different channels with the lack of crossover between the two audiences.

[@newsystem420]

I loved this comment and am happy to follow your vids Kat. You rock!❤👍

[@pigeon_person]

The only influencer brand i trust is SkinUp!

[@RobertWelsh]

Shipping 2039!! 🖤🖤🖤

[@sebumpostmortem]

​@@RobertWelshI need to tell you that you have the best customer service department EVER✨. I' m still waiting for my _Soup Palette_ since its launching evening but every single week I receive an email with the most creative, sophisticated and entertaining excuses justifying the delay. Congrats on hiring such a talented team, huns. It speaks volumes about your commitment with us. Much appreciated. Totally worth it. Highly recommended🔝 17/10 Jackies😆 🧛🏻‍♀️🖤

[@pigeon_person]

@@sebumpostmortem Can confirm! I've been waiting for my one touch disposable blunch glove and have had the same experience!

[@annapetryk]

This brand is a crazy combination of fantastic products, science and wigs. I trust it with my life.

[@horrorveronica724]

I can understand if the influencer is an MUA or a skin therapist or something like that. If they make a product within their profession - it makes sense. Then they have to care about the product itself. It can’t be someone like Kylie Jenner who likes their products because they are nice. They have to shown genuine interest for the products and the process. Not just ”slap my face on any product just so I can make money”.

[@msk-qp6fn]

I think it is fine if non MUA or derm or aesthetician/esthetician start their makeup or skincare brand, but for it to actually work and stick around the market and the people, the person would actually have to be interested or passionate about it; some examples i can think of are fenty beauty and fenty skin by rhianna, flower beauty by drew barrimore, honest beauty by jessica alba, hello bello by kristen bell, naturium by susan yara, lunar beauty by manny

[@hannahshark8080]

Cough cough Trisha Paytas

[@theeellebee]

I'll chip in my 2 cents. I feel like the KZbinrs genuinely care about their community and TikTokers just want followers. I love that Robert really replies to us and engages with his followers.❤❤ I had one TikToker be super rude to me on IG because I disagreed with her on Sunscreen

[@zuglymonster]

This exactly

[@Laura-ee4ck]

Agree! The tik tokers I follow are just beauty influencers I started loving from KZbin, to see extra content.

[@Galworld761]

No. This is their job. They are more thorough. There is more effort in the content. Never forget, you are view, subscriber and a stat that translates into dollars. Some are more scrupulous than others. You are a client consuming entertaining.

[@Lilly_King]

I kind of disagree. I think it's less "TikTokers just want followers" and "KZbinrs genuinely care". And more "people who only care about numbers find success on TikTok easier than on KZbin". Although TikTok following doesn't mean as much it's still easier to get a big number

[@strayiggytv]

Honestly I don't know how people can maintain parasocial relationships in this day and age. As someone who grew up in the 90s and watched basically everyone from media in that time period be outed as scumbags I trust no one. Even my favorite entertainers and KZbinrs I don't tend to support financially because it feels like at any second they'll be exposed as a scummy weirdo. In a way I think it's kind of for the better as now I can focus on just bettering myself and working on my own skills instead of caring about what others are doing

[@celestecelestial90]

Totally agree with you. I love this comment! ❤

[@daisyjohnson7588]

Yeah, my general feeling for KZbinrs has radically changed since a bunch of the vloggers I watched were outed for sexual assault. I think it was around 2015. I had some pretty intense parasocial relationships with those people and it really hurt me that people whose music I loved and people I was so excited to meet turned out to be absolute scumbags. Since then I've found people whose content I really enjoy, but there's more of an arm's length relationship. For example I really enjoy the videos Robert makes, and I love the twin channel. But I'm not thinking about how he and I would get along in real life. I feel like there's much more of a line for me where I'll consume content, but I'm not feeling a strong emotional attachment. Like you I think I'm ready for information to come out that would make me immediately bail. I'm not suspecting anything of anyone, but who can know a person from a few hours of curated content. As far as monetary support goes I feel like it's more transactional now. For instance there's a podcast I enjoy where for 5$ a month I get an extra episode a week. Yes I'm giving them my money, but not for attention or access to a discord group, just for the product I'm purchasing.

[@taranullius9221]

Then you're a reactionary with a severe case of confirmation bias who doesn't understand that 5 people out of tens of thousands isn't representative of much of anything.

[@celestecelestial90]

@@daisyjohnson7588 It seems like there’s always someone getting outed for vile behavior. Colleen Ballinger is the most recent and she messed with children which makes it more evil and disgusting in my opinion. I used to have parasocial relationships with people in the beauty community when I was in my mid to late 20s. Then I realized that we are not friends because they are not emotionally invested in me or any other subscribers even though some of us get emotionally invested in them. It’s a one sided relationship and at the end of the day they are sales representatives selling makeup and other products, even if they all don’t make a lot off of it. Nothing wrong with them making money, but I see them as sales reps not as my friends. I like my coworkers, but I don’t even see coworkers as friends. Friends are people I can talk about anything to, who I can text at 3AM with my worries, with whom I go out to dinner and shopping, etc. It’s fine if I somehow develop a genuine friendship with an influencer organically, but that’s not really something that’s important or a goal to me. I’m happy watching and supporting when I can, but from afar with a healthy emotional distance. I follow someone who is dying from cancer and multiple people in the comments section say they wish they could switch places with her so she could live and they could die because they love her so much. Don’t get me wrong, I wish she could have a miraculous healing and live to see 95 years of life, but me loving and wanting to give my life for a stranger online, is an unhealthy attachment and odd. The only people I’d give my live up for would be my kids. I also do one of those patreons/memberships like you do, but I do it for an educational channel because they really helped me learn and I want early access to their videos. 🙂

[@tammiemartinez6485]

Your comment should be at the top. I don't get parasocial relationships at all. I think they're dangerous. If viewers just looked at a creator like... I don't really know them, never will and they will never know me it would knock those "relationships" out. In my eyes they're no different than a host on QVC, HSN, etc. Not only are they trying to sell me everything they "love", are "obsessed with", etc now they're trying to get me to sign up for extra content, merch or a brand they just started. I got into YT makeup content late but it didn't take me long to see what too many of these creators are purposely doing to their viewers. That in itself will make me not sub, unsub, hit the do not recommend button or not watch even a few seconds of their videos. It's manipulation at its finest. That I'm certainly not down for... 🧏‍♀️

[@melissaselenebeauty]

I feel it depends on the relationship the influencer has to their brand. Do they seem to genuinely care about their products? Do they care that their audience is why they can even have a brand? Does the brand become more than just merch? I feel like Lunar Beauty is a great example of genuinely innovative makeup with someone who genuinely cares if it's good or not.

[@ZomBeeQueeen]

Yeh…parasocial relationship like he’s been explaining 🤣 it’s what people feel about the influencer

[@meganchabot]

"You watch them get engaged, buy a house together, get married, have a child, and then also get divorced" Good chuckle moment right there 🖤💜

[@RobertWelsh]

😂😂😂 …. But for real I think I’ve seen 3 couples go through life on KZbin 😂

[@PamelaH_HappyVibes]

@@RobertWelsh- I can name a few that I have been watching for years!

[@raerohan4241]

Only one I can think of that qualifies is Ned Fulmer. I can think of two others who have been married and had a child since I started watching them. But I used to use yt primarily for anime back in the day, so I don't think I have as much watch time on real people ytbers than someone else might have

[@kaiduran528]

Tik tok is for doom scrolling at 3am when I'm riddled with stress. But KZbin is my PEOPLE, you know? I look forward to their content, feel inspired by the things they post, listen and watch while I'm tidying the house or unwinding... It just feels so much personal.

[@nataliaw3237]

Loved the video clip you shared regarding empty calories vs. protein - I think this really describes the difference between TikTok and KZbin. It would be really difficult to sustain a loyal relationship with empty calories, if that makes sense. P.s. Almost at 1M followers!!! Yay!! 🖤🖤🖤

[@RobertWelsh]

Yes it really made a lot of sense too me!! We are so close!!! 🖤🖤🖤🖤

[@thegoosegirl42]

personally I have a close relationship with empty carbs. cookies my beloved ❤

[@dinasilva9263]

Robert your opinion about makeup is the only one that really matters to me. You're the best 💜

[@RobertWelsh]

Thank you 😝🖤🖤

[@Petronella1]

Same 🙋🏼‍♀️

[@jellybean6567]

Also same! 😺

[@lucyfer6g6]

Same same same !! 🖤🖤🖤

[@montana1080]

Robert your opinion is just as important as Lisa Eldridge. You both are wonderful artists and as someone who has been a fan of Lisa since I was a child I agree she is not an “influencer” by definition however she influences me more than anyone

[@SheilaMarguerite]

I think that if an influencer creates a brand and lets it exist as it's own entity, apart from their own face/personality, then it stands a better chance to be successful long term, as opposed to just launching a brand with their face slapped on it. But either way, if they then take a 6 month hiatus from KZbin, then they are not nurturing the connection that made ppl become subscribers in the first place. So it would be understandable for the brand to take a hit.

[@RobertWelsh]

Yes absolutely!!!

[@cravinsomeraven]

There are at least a handful of KZbinrs that I follow that disappeared from YT once they started making money on brands, and now they just flaunt their lifestyles on IG…if I’m honest, I found it hurtful that they didn’t even announce the change, or give an explanation, after I followed them loyally for years and years. Sure, maybe this is just another parasocial relationship, but I can’t help but feel used.

[@foreverdead1248]

It's not make up but Cristine launching Holo Taco is how you do a brand right

[@user-po6lu3ws7n]

I agree, if I were an influencer turned brand founder my idea would be to set this brand up to live beyond the height of my online popularity or even my online career as I could sustain it at all. And for it to have enough of its own credibility and stability to compliment me enough for it to clearly be mine and be marketable as such but also the ability to stand on its own and become its own successful venture.

[@alittleoddme1940]

I agree, if an influencer is going to make a Brand, they really just need to separate themselves from it. I think one size is a good example of that. Even with the spray not working correctly, it was still addressed correctly and handled Correctly. I believe that's one of the main reason. Influencer brands fail is because they don't handle back fires. Well, if at all or lease some kind of terrible Twitter comment.

[@misshell2223]

Ugh!! I swear! Every single time i watch you do your eye looks i just sit in awe thinking "how tf does he do it?!" It's always perfection from start to finish & no matter how hard i try.. i cannot for the life of me get anything to look cohesive & "put together" if u will; if it isn't basic neutrals or simple shimmer i'm at a total loss 😢

[@RobertWelsh]

Blending is key! I have a few videos on blending that go deep into it like brush angles etc!

[@TheRealSherBear]

Same. I try to recreate his looks and it looks like I was holding a blending brush with my feet.

[@misshell2223]

​@@TheRealSherBear🤣🤣🤣🤣 yessss same!!! Same!

[@kershabeaver3312]

The way you actually respond to the comments also appreciate

[@kelqueen9998]

@@TheRealSherBear That might be the funniest comment ever. I totally relate.

[@roycesaful]

"... it's inevitable that a KZbinr will start a brand..." I sure hope that's true when it comes to you, Robert!!! 🤩

[@RobertWelsh]

😂😂😂 who knows!! Maybe one day!

[@arkansaninva]

I'm still waiting for my SkinUp order to arrive!! 😂

[@notjustanotherbrickinthewall]

You know what would be an epic influencer brand? You and James doing a skin prep, makeup removing, cleaners / makeup line together. It’s a bit different that what is out there. And it can be for different skin types. God I would love that!

[@RobertWelsh]

You never knooooooooow 😛🖤🖤🖤

[@notjustanotherbrickinthewall]

@@RobertWelsh Robert, listen! 😂 We want that. Ok? Maybe we don’t need it, but we want it. I would love to have all purple eye shadow pallets. Or…!!! What about eye shadow palette for certain eye colour!? Like a mini quads. Of course we all can use them no matter the eye color, but it would be cool to have palette designed specifically for your eye colour to compliment it even more. 👌🏻

[@kershabeaver3312]

​@@LalaDepala00😅😅😅

[@Fnuller92]

SkinUp!😍

[@Ellzy1]

@@Fnuller92code #cabbageslut

[@reba738]

I'd put SkinUp as my number one influencer brand, $50 a piece, you can't go wrong or get confused at pricing at checkout and it's Jackie approved (some may even stolen idea, I'd like to say borrowed/inspired) I think One Size is doing amazing things too, but is slightly lagging behind what you and James put out with SkinUp 💜 In all seriousness though, I'd buy from yourself, Alexandra Anele and Nicki La Rosé if you brought one out. Your unproblematic, professional MUAs I'd love to support and have actually learnt a lot from. In my 30's I can finally say I have the confidence to apply and wear makeup 💄 I don't have TicTok, never had, nor do I want it. I love KZbin 💖

[@d.e.2657]

No Tik Tok, no make up here. I watch your videos and admire your makeup (especially the eyes!), love your talking and laughing and improve my english by listening. Your videos and the Welsh Twins are a blessing for people with depression. Often caught myself giggeling 😊

[@LuonnonkosmetiikkaWithDeli]

So true! It is a some form of meditation.

[@humairaiqbal4842]

I am right there with you… i watch tiktok to just fill up spare time, however i watch youtube as a priority… when i have enough time!!!

[@morganjane]

I think the only influencer brand I genuinely like from a makeup artist’s standpoint is Lunar Beauty. I feel like Manny puts in a lot of thought and effort into his brand and the quality reflects that effort. It doesn’t hurt that the aesthetic is witchy and completely up my alley. And I ABSOLUTELY agree with you about the influencers who come out with a brand and then their YT presence dwindles. Their YT channel is literally what gave them their brand, and to then disappear after launching really rubs me the wrong way.

[@RobertWelsh]

Absolutely!

[@spinstercatlady]

Yes, I never even followed Manny, but his products are very beautiful (and based on most reviews, of good quality) and I considered purchasing from his brand back when I was actually buying makeup.

[@SM-88bmf]

This is such an interesting topic. It seems you have to stream live on tik tok constantly to gain any sort of relationship with fans but it also seems a very fickle climate. I think in terms of longevity youtube still wins. Also, love you Robert 🖤 you are so articulate with your opinions, another fab debate!

[@RobertWelsh]

Thank you so so much! 🖤🖤🖤

[@jessislistless]

Parasocial relationships are why people like Zoella had a massive following in their heyday. People would send fan mail to her and speak to her like she was not only their best friend but like a family member or somebody that they looked up to. In the comments, people would write about how they were saving their money to purchase any product she showed in her videos, or she was about to release. People would wait and be hyped for her website/blog relaunches. This power she had over her viewers goes beyond the young demographic because a lot of them are still there. They grew up with her, and as her content has changed, they are still there. They still look forward to her blog /Instagram posts and whatever she offers now because they grew up with her. Granted, it’s no longer the ten million+ people she had before, but a considerable amount of people still follow her after all these years, and she still pulls in views consistently. That kind of long-lasting fan base is something only a few KZbinrs can boast.

[@RobertWelsh]

That’s absolutely true!!

[@maggie_sugarxo]

So so true + I feel like some influencer brands don't rely on any form of marketing or outreach, but rely only on the owner's success and continuous promotion..

[@RobertWelsh]

Absolutely it’s almost like free advertising… just carry on making content like you did before!

[@Leena79]

I don't follow beauty influencers on tiktok, and I've always preferred quality over quantity with who I choose to follow on youtube, and even on tiktok. I'm not fully opposed to buying makeup from youtuber brands, but it would really need to be from a youtuber I genuinely enjoy watching, and who has proven they actually know their stuff. In a way, buying a makeup palette, which is a collab between an established brand and a youtuber seems like a safer bet than a whole new influencer brand. I have some trust issues with influencers these days. 😃

[@RobertWelsh]

Yea I can understand that! I actually purchased a few good influencer collabs! And loved them!

[@natfast5382]

The reason is the 99% of influencer brands are the cash grab. The quality is neglected,as it is considered that people will bay it notwithstanding the quality because of the parasocial relations between influencer and it's audience. Basically , 💯 f.cks are given regarding quality

[@kershabeaver3312]

Agreed

[@lizschell458]

I laughed when you mentioned that tiktok users find content longer than a minute to be stressful.... because I agree! I'm really not interested in hearing long 5 part stories from people I'm not invested in or people I've never even seen before (because of algorithm), if that makes sense. It's a lot easier for me to watch youtubers' long videos because I feel much more connected to them than people on tiktok.

[@RobertWelsh]

No that totally makes sense!! I didn’t see it from that point of view!

[@kimgrandy_art_]

I feel like your take on the relationship between subscribers on KZbin as opposed to TikTok is spot on. I have zero interest in beauty on TikTok. I come to KZbin for beauty content. I go to TikTok to fill time. Not for information.

[@veralindqvist3944]

The only makeup brand from an influencer I bought from is Makeup Geek and I’m devastated it went under. Marlena stan forever ❤

[@Charlotte-gv4gf]

In terms of when I use tiktok, I use it mindlessly if that makes sense... I'm not really taking in anything said on there, it's just to pass time and I end up scrolling through aimlessly. On YT I actively either search for what I want, or subscribe to those I want to see and watch them. Almost in my "me" time when getting ready etc. And it feels more purposeful than TikTok!

[@LazyLissa13579]

This was a really good discussion on TikTok versus KZbin, and brought up a lot of great points I’d never really thought about. It makes me want to learn more about it!

[@MSigs]

Loved this video Robert. I'm a PhD student finishing my degree in researching para-social relationships. I can tell you that what you said here is certainly what we see on a larger scale across social media platforms and even what we see with the relationship the younger current generation has with "real" celebrities (e.g., actors). KZbin is king in harvesting *communities*, something that other social media platforms, although have similar or greater follower numbers, can't seem to get right. In my opinion, short form will come and go but KZbin will remain if it continues to highlight its strengths in community building, rather than chasing the short form hype.

[@KelseyDrummer]

I'd love to read your thesis! After what's happened over the last couple months on youtube, it's really made me evaluate who I follow and how invested I am in their content.

[@MeridaEllaSDB]

I second this. Where can we find your work? What name are you going to publish under?

[@kaitlynbrogan4754]

same !^^

[@arkansaninva]

I think people get so invested in influencers, and then when they conduct their business like the whole point is to make money (which, news flash, it is!), the viewers feel like the influencers had been lying in some way and then they lose that parasocial relationship you were talking about. Very interesting topic, Robert! I love learning about this stuff with you!

[@therealtulip]

People may be “over” influencers, and I personally don’t follow a lot of influencers on KZbin, but Robert is still one of the ones I do follow and really enjoy listening to.

[@candacehofferd6412]

This was a very interesting video - quite enjoyed it. I think the KZbinr/Subscriber relationship can also provide those who struggle with shyness, social anxiety or other factors a safe place to be seen and feel part of a community without stress. I remember when I got my first response back from Robert, it was exciting! You felt seen by this person (in my case) I was looking up to in order to finally learn makeup. I totally agree there’s a preconceived cash grab mentality if TikTokers get a brand. I personally wouldn’t purchase their brand because, even if I had TikTok, I don’t think I could trust them

[@RobertWelsh]

I 100% agree With you! 🖤🖤🖤

[@ina2353]

It's my first time being so early so I just wanted to say how much I love you and the videos you make ❤. I appreciate all the effort and passion you put in the things you do. Your whole channel radiates wholesomeness and peace. 😊

[@RobertWelsh]

Thank you so so much!!

[@misshell2223]

Yes!! I could listen to him speak about anything for hourrrsssss!!! So damn soothing🥰

[@spinstercatlady]

As always, a very nuanced look at a topic! I most definitely agree. Massive difference between someone like Caroline Hirons, who has DECADES of knowledge and experience behind her (and is a trusted voice in the community), and some fly by night TikTok'er (such as the self dubbed "skin care" expert who started his own line that quickly went belly up - can't recall his name right off hand). I think age of followers is also a major component. Most of TT is a young audience, and folks under 18 are likely to buy and try the products of an influencer they like once or twice before moving on to the next big thing. That type of market is fine for a quick cash grab (which is what most of these influencers are after anyhow tbh), but it's not going to sustain a brand long-term.

[@angel15550]

Today I was traveling whilst on my phone and to my delight I find YOU, gorgeous YOU, I may have fallen in love with your voice, your smile and your application of makeup. Thank you for keeping me company. ❤

[@kopal317]

Speaking of millions, our bestie Robert is close to reaching million subs. This is huge!!! Congratulations, Robert.❤️ And what you said makes so much sense. A lot of social media people say this all the time (not all). And part of the reason why I had to leave the freelance marketing space was because a lot of people don’t understand this and I couldn’t find a way to tell my clients that we need to build relationships and not gain numbers for the sake of it. It’s still a huge problem. Maybe this video will change their mind.✨

[@4amlibra]

I remember hearing (I think it was in Amanda from Swell Entertainment’s video on whether influencer culture is dying) that it takes around 11 videos on KZbin for someone to subscribe to you, but on TikTok people will hit the Follow button after a single short. The numbers just do not relate at all, it is so much easier to reach 1M on TT than even 50k on YT.

[@janissanders1156]

This was a really thoughtful video. As a KZbin watcher that has not gone over to TikTok, I do acknowledge that there’s an entire group of branded influencers that I know nothing of. But even with the personalities that I’ve come to enjoy on KZbin, I still think that there is a large push of over consumption of products that generally people don’t buy but every so often. So I’ve gotten even more selective about who I watch often, and who I may actually support with my dollars. But on the positive, I love how much easier it is to access actual professionals through their content on the platform. I may never meet Lisa Eldridge or Danessa Myricks - but I can watch them create and gets tips on using their products. Thanks for the knowledge drop today. 😊

[@imandoski9991]

Omg soon 1M subscribers 🥹 I can’t believe I have followed you since the beginning 🥰

[@RobertWelsh]

Omg thank you so so muuuuch!!! We are almost there!!

[@gabrielafonseca4034]

Ever since celebrities were only doing perfume, it made me less likely to buy something, let alone influencers. Oh, I'm not on TikTok, but you see it anywhere on Facebook and KZbin

[@meganmoon6197]

Omg I almost forgot about those days

[@genevievehebert-carr5047]

Robert: « I have no foundation brushes… » [proceeds to apply foundation in a mesmerizing way] Me: 😮 I think I need to give Haus Labs a try!!! I love your content and value your expert opinions and thoughtful comments. Thank you!!

[@tigress1237]

With tik tok I usually watch it if I need quick inspo for art, cosplay, or makeup and sometimes if something bad happened and it affected me badly I use it to tune out the bad stuff. And with KZbin I watch it when I’m cleaning or drawing and if i wanna watch videos with stories like comics and animatics.

[@TonjaWatts]

I literally don’t scroll on tiktok, I feel like the content is being forced on me. I only go on it to post and I only watch the TikToks people send me. I prefer IG reels or YT shorts if I’m going to watch short form content. But I prefer long for content. Having a snack or a tea and watching a creator for 20 mins is a nice break through the day.

[@RobertWelsh]

Absolutely!!!

[@TonjaWatts]

@@RobertWelsh I am a millennial though. So that probably has something to do with it. 😂

[@geniegene_ps]

Love these videos! It’s like chatting with my beauty pro girlies about my industry shower thoughts. I get the impression that the beauty industry had a ton of money pumped into it once it started to explode online, and we are feeling the rebounds of industry overvaluation similar to tech. All these brands created to capitalize on a market without taking the time to build the audience. And now those relationships with the beauty base are being put to the test you’re definitely right

[@Jasmine-uv6tu]

I've never really thought about it that way, I agree! I think the push for decreasing consumerism has also had an effect as it's unrealistic to buy the makeup palette for every single beauty KZbinr/TikTok-er you watch, especially if that is the majority of what you're consuming on YT.

[@irene_in_progress]

I watch youtube shorts/fb reels when I'm getting into bed, passing time, on the toilet as you said. I don't have tiktok. Now youtube videos, I plan for, watch them while I'm eating dinner, get excited for new video drop days. I definitely have parasocial relationships with 'my' youtubers. Thanks for being my internet bestie!

[@kershabeaver3312]

Robert is one of my favorites. Who actually tried to give reliable information. And thar hes a professional MUA i have other makeup enthusiasts. Who are self taught snd just as honest about the products they review.

[@RobertWelsh]

🖤🖤🖤

[@Missfoxtooyou]

No tik tok, not interested in having an account there. But here..I love most of my creators I’m subscribed too, and in my head we are friends.

[@katerow9019]

I’ll never buy an influencer product for the influencer but if I hear amazing things and the reviews are good, I’m happy to try them

[@val834]

What’s really interesting regarding this is that TikTok videos are so short, but on YT the trend now is 1+ long videos! I watch you cause I enjoy your point of view and literally because it’s you but trust me, that 10/20 mins tag at the right hand corner of some YT videos it’s a huge put off cause I put my phone on the side while I work and I don’t want to be going back to it, click on another video, getting distracted because of notifications etc so “podcast length” kind of content is really really huge on the platform now and I see a lot of comments asking creators to make their videos longer!

[@vjchargergirl]

Me thinking "pfft, parasocial relationship" then realise that I can tell by your voice, without looking at my screen, that you're putting your lashes on....😊

[@AnaVega24]

I think you are 100% right and I really like how you specifically talked about this subject/topic with a new angle and a perspective that haven’t really been delved into. It was very informative and interesting, plus extremely refreshing, that you didn’t put focus on the individual influencer or the drama etc. but chose a statistical and analytical context/viewpoint. I would love to see more like this, it looked like you genuinely enjoyed creating this (and by that I do not mean, that I think you aren’t genuine or that you don’t seem to enjoy what you usually do, because I absolutely think, that your channel is awesome, as it is and your content is always really great, but it just felt like you had a little extra sparkle in your eyes, because of the excitement of doing something a little different and new again). Your makeup looked fabulous as always. This was just awesome, I hope you have a lovely day🙌.

[@hungoverpuppy3907]

As someone who isn't at the best place money wise, I would rather go to a pharmacy, Amazon, Ulta, etc and buy what I know is going to work VS taking my chances in some pricey inferencer brand that popped out of nowhere whose products are usually nothing new.

[@kershabeaver3312]

Yes

[@ashtontawton1318]

Same, back in the day I could afford to buy makeup for fun, but now money is tight I have to be 100% confident in what I'm buying

[@shortcake66]

You know who reviews a lot of drugstore makeup? Trixie Mattel. She may not use it quite the same way as us but she KNOWS makeup and she’ll give you the real tea on whether something’s good or not. She’s flirted with expensive brands but she’s a thrifty bish, and she doesn’t need to suck up to anyone, so if the Maybelline’s better than the Haus Labs she’ll tell you

[@Glammums]

More creators on Instagram & TikTok have very obviously bought a large % of their followers. I think this needs to be addressed it’s very annoying for us genuine creators.

[@janna8147]

Super interesting topic, and thank you for also running out of clean brushes 🤣💜🖤💜

[@RobertWelsh]

Omg I spent a day cleaning them after this is was the worst day of my life

[@janna8147]

My sincere sympathies and now I have to go do that. I don't wannnaaaaaa

[@dorothytenute2710]

I am an oldie so no Tik Tok for me. I personally think it is short-circuiting young people's attention span...this was a very interesting video. Makes total sense. I love Lisa Eldridge, I would love to purchase her products but a bit out of my price range right now. Your comment about 'drunk karaoke singer criticizing Beyonce' made me laugh out loud

[@ME-gr4kl]

It really depends on the influencer. I do think that people like Jaclyn Hill and her response to issues with her brand made more people doubt influencer brands in general. Same with JS and his behavior. I do think that Patrick Star’s recent addressing of issues with his setting spray hopefully has set a better example for influencer brand owner behavior. A lot of mistrust exists due to drama, IMHO.

[@gabrielatucan2693]

I like how Rob says "consider subscribing" and not just "subscribe!!". Its much more respectful❤ also the content is great, on point! Bravo Rob! Subscribed 😂

[@Itsruth97]

I’m actually falling out of ‘love’ with TikTok recently- because of the quick, inconsistent content! Like waiting for ‘part 2’ is THE most annoying thing. It’s made me love KZbin again and crave longer videos from people who’s opinion I truly value and don’t make me wait for part 2 😂

[@catherinebell122]

Robert, always straight up thoughtful content! Thank you.😎

[@RobertWelsh]

Thank you! 🖤🖤

[@whatsup968]

If I used TikTok and followed you on there, I wouldn't see this side of you. Videos like this are part of what show your depth I love your funny videos or your more makeup-focused videos as well. I first saw your channel through one of you reaction videos that was reacting to stuff like TikTok videos And I stayed bc KZbin is a really great platform to showcase that your are a genuine, honest person. TikTok seems like a harder platform to do that on, as you kinda addressed

[@DorieBee-BARElynecessary]

If you're genuine and true to yourself on social media, you have my attention. The more I watch you, the more I think you're trustworthy, the more likely it is I will invest in your products. Yelling at me for 10 seconds about a product without giving me any proper information or treating me like I'm stupid because I don't know that I *should be* applying a foundation with a potato doesn't really have the same effect on me so I'll be spending my money elsewhere, thank you ...

[@Nat-om5oi]

the moment you zoomed in putting on lashes creating UNINTENTIONAL BUT DEFINITE ROLLING EYES made my day !!!!!

[@misshell2223]

Less than 3k to go!!!!!! 💜🖤

[@RobertWelsh]

Omgaaaaaaad!!!

[@christinewilliams7343]

Robert, I just wanted to congratulate you on hitting 1M subcribers!!! Out of all the influencers out there, you are the one that can get me to buy anything just by recommendation alone. I owe the growth of my already large makeup collection to you. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and wit with all of us!!! :)

[@heyhey9360]

What I expect for cosmetics is not who produce them, but a functionarity. A influencer has a decent labo like big brands do? No. A influencer who is not a professional MUA knows well about makeup other than oneself's face like MUA does? No. Majority of them seem to want only to grab money in my eyes, and I don't feel like trusting or paying them.

[@raychie27]

What you said makes perfect sense. I'm not on TikTok at all. Short form videos definitely have there place, but there is more depth and connection in long form videos.

[@RaynahWoolsey]

Ahhh you’re so close to 1 million! Congratulations 🎉 😊

[@RobertWelsh]

Thank yoooou!! 🖤🖤🖤

[@hanywhiskey]

love these deep dives. you and james are one of the very few influencers i trust. it’s so few of you who are genuine and real and honest and it’s so refreshing to watch you. there’s so much to learn from those who set the expectations to the right level and who is actually relatable and you can connect to. the rest tho.. feels like big act

[@jojomarch]

If it's inevitable that a beauty You Tuber will eventually launch a brand, where is yours Robert?! (please and thank you). I totally agree about the content length affecting parasocial relationships on YT vs TikTok. The thing I don't understand tho if this is true is how creators like Mikayla and Meredith Duxbury have so many stans (I don't mean there's anything wrong with being their Stan just how it develops if that makes sense)

[@RobertWelsh]

😂😂😂😂😂 one day!!

[@chantaltwang4718]

I use TikTok right before I go to bed but I watch KZbin all day. I will put on my favorite KZbinr (you) and let you videos play while I work.

[@jordancasey3051]

Can I just say I think you should have way more subscribers! When it comes to makeup I only watch you & Wayne Goss ! You don’t mess around & your always honest ❤ I can’t tell you the amount of money I’ve wasted listening to these so called influencers it’s actually jarring 🙄😬

[@judegilman3853]

I watch TikTok on the toilet or wherever I need temporary distraction, and then I watch KZbin when I’m working or when I’m doing something around the house to keep me company ❤

[@_G3m_]

Remember what Tati released vitamins as her first product?! Now that was unexpected!

[@RobertWelsh]

She did!!!!

[@Ammiller5]

I still get the promo emails...i can't bring myself to unsubscribe from them, they're too funny

[@Merlociosa]

The way you are able to put on false lashes while talking is a true skill that I hope to acquire one day 😊

[@asapseed]

3K AWAY FROM 1 MILLION 🎉🎉

[@RobertWelsh]

We are so cloooose!! 😝

[@janicestewart8291]

TikTok seems to gain individuals who want quick information...that isn't any more necessarily how they go thru their daily...they are too busy to go see a character on-line in person. Like my granddaughter who watches it when she has a few minutes. It just ends there.

[@AKbaby89]

I have ADHD, so for me, i always get on tiktok to look for a certain thing, but the second the app opens and the first video starts playing, i completely forget what im doing so i just start scrolling. Then maybe 20min later ill snap out of it and close the app, only to go back to what i was doing and realize i never looked for the thing ok tiktok😂 Im a youtube person. Big time.

[@RobertWelsh]

Omg im with you on that!! 🖤🖤

[@kat1984]

I deleted tiktok very quickly. I love your grayscale eye makeup! I love all shades of gray

[@dee8056]

I'm definitely a person who is more likely to be influenced or buy something from someone i have been following on youtube for a while. Tiktok is literally just to waste time.

[@Jesi-g]

12:59 that's me!🙋‍♀️ I don't care for TikTok at all! I prefer watching a well made informative 30+ min video on KZbin 😊

[@cynthiastlaurent3878]

Subscribed! Not sure why I have not earlier, love you content. Thank you! Almost at 1 million!!! Congratulations!

[@stephanieg3485]

You are spot on!! It is 1000% driven by parasocial relationships. That’s why so many of the IG “lifestyle” influencers can sell literally anything. Because they are good at making you want to be just like them. I will say though, selling anything to anyone comes down to being able to make people like you. I spent 15 years in sales, your product and the quality of it has less to do with your success than your ability to make people like you.

[@sarahwatson3192]

I’ve been on youtube since I was 11 so 15 years almost at this point. If a KZbinr I like comes out with a brand that makes sense or products that make sense (ie right now I’m really excited to get my mythical kitchen cook book) than I am backing it. I haven’t tried it yet but I love the idea of Criminal Coffee from Crime Weekly. I love that our one and only Fact Boi has a beard oil, and that my favourite twins have the best all natural science based technology infused brand SkinUp! If it makes sense it makes sense. But not everyone needs a skin care line or make up brand, if I don’t trust your opinions or I don’t know your passion is real I don’t care about what you try to sell me.

[@monroerobbins7551]

Honestly, I feel like influencer brands are failing partially due to the youth (I say as if I’m not 22, so not super old but definitely not 18 under). Younger folks are more and more savvy to things like if brands are wasteful or not, if they’re ethical or not, and this one funny thing when it comes to the “shorter attention span of younger people”, is that it’s there’s a little loophole: researching (this is from what I’d seen when I was still in school, especially during my senior year, then seeing it from freshmen and juniors in college). While a lot of younger people aren’t as into sitting and watching something for ten minutes, you’d best believe they’ll spend an hour googling, going through different things and seeing what they can find. A lot of the people I see protesting for certain things? People 18 or younger. Who do I see sharing posts super quickly about “did you see about this brand, what they said? I’m not a fan”? A lot of the time it’s people under the age of 18. Who do I see ready to stop using a brand when they do something they don’t believe in, more often than not? People under the age of 18. Young people are becoming more aware of things from a younger age, and while there’s still growing pains (like reacting a bit more harshly more quickly, or not being super eloquent in data analysis), they’re getting smarter from a younger age, and that includes being able to see brands they don’t like, and not only not spending money there, but sharing the word. They’re becoming more aware, and that includes being aware of brand practices, the targeting on them as potential consumers, and knowing when to turn their heel and walk away. This is from my personal experience, but it’s my belief that cash grabs are failing more and more often because they’re trying to go for newer and younger audiences, and choking when the younger folks say no readily, so instead the brands try and prey on the nostalgia of older fans. As I said, this is my opinion and personal experience.

[@Ridcully9]

I watch your videos every day. You and James are my favourite creators and I rewatch videos to help me sleep. Your voice is so soothing. I hope you all keep making longer videos

[@CynBo94]

Your Lisa Eldridge anecdote is sweet. In its own way, that the person reached out to you demonstrates what you explained about the parasocial relationship. The Instagrammer (who I'd bet is quite young) found Lisa Eldridge, so they turned to your, their best makeup online "friend" for your opinion. I do understand (and share) your reaction to LE being called an "influencer," but it is sweet that one of your followers has so much trust in you, that they wanted your opinion, even though everything LE does online is flawless. It's like, "Oh I think this is good, but I'd better check with Robert to make sure." Thank you for the fascinating video, Robert (and you are unlikely to see me on TikTok).

[@beautybeagles6982]

This makes so much sense in regards to tiktok vs KZbin and the quality and depth of relationship. I'm from a sales background and the first thing I was taught that people buy from people. Therefore, you need to be engaged and develop a relationship with a client if you want a long-term returning client that purchases regularly. You do that through sharing yourself with them and making them feel special, that's impossible in a 30-second tiktok.

[@alimirabile9024]

Loved this video, I think you hit the nail on the head Robert 😊 Something I find interesting, even though we are talking in the beauty realm here, tik tok viral is interesting across the board. Seeing the vidcon footage of no one showing up reminded me of the video that went viral of Coi singing "Girls are players too" at a bar and no one there knowing the song or not singing along. Even though something might be popular on tik tok and influence people to buy/ listen to a song, it just doesn't seem to hit as hard as when it gets popular on KZbin. I think your right that it is because we dont really know them and the short attention span of there will be another popular trend/song/product in a few weeks time.

[@tashaleeman]

I tend to prefer youtube so i can have a video playing while cooking and cleaning or i also watch youtube just to chill. I love to support people like you who ive followed for many years! Tiktok i tend to just scroll if i have less time spare. Still always prefer youtube. But totally depends on the person. I only follow people i love to watch & actually trust when recommending products ❤

[@divichand511]

So I'm on both KZbin and tiktok. I found you on Tiktok and then moved to insta. I love watching longer form content such as get ready with me's, true crime, deep dives like this. I absolutely agree with you, I watch tiktok on the can, waiting in line, in a meeting at work, before bed. It's a quick thing for me to see for a few mins when I'm bored. I usually also don't recognize who's who sometimes on tiktok even if I am following them. There are only a handful of people I can think of and name from tiktok who I take and active interest in, you being one of them! I think it's true that millenals and older gen z like watching or having long form yt videos on in the background while doing work, cooking etc. And the younger audience with more free time uses tiktok more, but its not the same level of engagement

[@972Mockingbird]

OMG Robert is SOOOOO Close to 1 million subs!