Rock Bands vs Naturalists, which is better for Tourism?

[@Sidnv]

The pronunciation is close enough. Well done.

[@pzr2681]

Siddharth Venkatesh pronounciation**

[@unserkatzenland8884]

Indonesian?

[@unserkatzenland8884]

Indonesian?

[@Sidnv]

@@unserkatzenland8884 Indian.

[@memefacemcgee]

Rocthity pronunciation***

[@Marbozir]

I don't know about Tourism, but Rock Bands are actually great for Domination victory, because they make you want to murder every single AI that's spamming the shit out of them.

[@beanburrito4405]

I thought you were gonna say something about lowering enemy loyalty pressure with the Indie promotion in the first half lol

[@douglascampbell9809]

That constant rock band spam from the AI testing really got to you : )

[@PotatoMcWhiskey]

TRUE

[@anthonyp9591]

hahaha, Marbz, you're too funny :)

[@JCMiniPainting]

I've been searching for a way to disable the music that plays when they do that for quite a while now.

[@brandobatel]

Civ: "5 turns to Culture victory" 1 turn later Civ: "35 turns to Culture victory" one turn later Civ: "13 turns to Culture victory" this is something i wished the devs simplified or just made easier to understand on a linear scale

[@amazingblyatman5760]

For real, game went from 16 turn to 127 until i win. A proper explanation by the devs would be really nice

[@jamessaras2641]

Does anyone even know why this happens

[@tomaszjurczak7256]

The Windows school of time estimation

[@allancg1022]

game prediction is probably based in the generated tourism in the last turn, this kinda doesn't work when you add rock bands because the tourism given is not stable and is much bigger them what you normally generates.

[@bernardo-x5n]

It does not work because the game takes the tourism and culture players generated previous turn and then it assumes it will never ever change. Ever.

[@brightlights365]

Regarding national parks, remember bois: Eiffel Tower is life

[@Septimus_ii]

The 'tourism tower' concept is extremely helpful, thank you

[@danielmaher1654]

Which is better for tourism? Well, if you don't have gathering storm, naturalists are always better than rock bands

[@kaltrossterben6691]

Alright at min 3:20 you essentially taught me culture victory, this explanation was so effective that it immediately vouchered you a thumb up on your video! That was hands down the best mini tutorial you have ever made that I have seen. Thank you very much.

[@jarequemetabolski]

I was about to write that! Hats off to you for the comment and hats off to potato for the vid

[@dennisuerling899]

Blasphemy I say!!! You should like a PotatoMcWhiskey video before you even start watching it. Joking, but this is typically what I do.

[@EliTripps]

I concur. I could only wish all informative youtube videos were this concise and useful. Great job, i finally subbed too.

[@robbie15211]

I love how you can write a college senior thesis on any subject in Civ 6

[@PiotrDzialak]

Perfect. Of course, it will often come down to the space available for the national parks, especially if you had placed several +72 Industrial Zones :D

[@jamesdinius7769]

Yep. I can never resist spamming industrial zones and mines. They do let me build up my tourism faster by building up wonders and theater squares, not to mention running projects. I also tend to neglect holy sites.

[@vaylutev.1960]

The visual representation of culture and tourism is *insanely* useful. I've had tourism explained to me a couple times now and keep mixing up details, but I think I finally get it. Thanks!

[@PotatoMcWhiskey]

first

[@tonyvu3235]

PotatoMcWhiskey damn it

[@RobertR19]

Damn

[@Isengardtom]

Evil

[@unserkatzenland8884]

So close

[@CultofThings]

Well played...

[@BlueMountain1992]

TFW 3 years later, Potato's tower of blocks is still more intuitive than basically any standalone guides for the culture victory on the internet.

[@leapbeforeyoulook201]

Sounds like I need to win a science victory just to understand cultural wins.

[@jaimekaplan4029]

Lol

when alot of video and thread explain a good way to start and conquer the early and midgame, i really like the indepth video about some of the late games things. keep up the good work potota.

[@andrewmcginley5946]

The first three minutes of this video gave me a better understanding of culture than about an hour of reading. I also really enjoyed the thorough explanation of the original question.

[@gustavoamadex]

That tower analogy alone was gold! 🙏🏼 Thank you so much

[@gogogadgetkat]

You're so flipping smart. This video is 100% the best Civ video I've ever seen, and I watched FilthyRobot! Thank you so much for this, can't wait for the next one!

[@jessicabythesea1331]

Thank you for this very clear explanation of how tourism works!! I've always been really confused by the different kinds of tourists and how to generate tourists, so I've avoided trying for cultural victories. The tower of blocks was especially helpful, since I am a visual learner!

[@propayne8469]

Been really enjoying these videos while my computer is in the shop. Can't wait to get back to Civ!

[@drewsutton1888]

I totally agree with you about preferring efficiency over optimization. Optimization increases your win percentage at the expense of fun, but can also mean more time invested in performing calculations! If that was what people wanted, math games would dominate the marketplace. Also, psychologically speaking, a simple heuristic solution is easier to learn, remember and implement than working an absolute mathematical formula in real time. This is also why no modder has ever bothered to implement a UI mod to provide this kind of optimized strategic information! At that point it ceases to be a game and becomes an algorithm.

[@TheWastelander86]

My God, thank you. Tourism victories feel more like an instinctual rush towards wonders, seaside resorts, and national parks, and now rock bands, than anything remotely strategic.

[@haraldvars6671]

I really appreciate your way of explaining things, for me at least, it's very easy to understand. Maybe it's because I've followed your channel for a while now. I myself enjoy your more passive style of winning games. Really good info video, keep them coming 💪

[@drewoathout4664]

Dude.... this.... this is awesome! Thank you!

[@eamonnculhane6787]

Such a high quality video! Getting to the point fast and then expanding into greater detail

[@sagebrushrepair]

Hi, I closed the video after your analogy as I now understand my goals. Thank you. Seriously, that was a great decision to include that in this video. I will likely fail at my goals and then watch the rest but for now i'm gonna steal so many blocks early on.

[@BoonesRevenge]

Great video! I had this down pretty well, as I normally go for Cultural victory. But very nice way of explaining an otherwise complicated game mechanic.

[@TazKiKr]

Eventhough I have been subscribed to your channel for close to 6 months now, I have only stumbled on this video today. And all I can say is "THANK YOU SO MUCH". I have been struggling to understand the tourism concepts and you have enlightened me in a matter of 17 minutes!

[@joshharkness7637]

This is the best description of the most complex mechanic in the game.

[@Rotaienko]

Well, you actually did a great job in explaining this. Everything was crystal clear and made a lot of sense, and English is not even my native. Thanks a lot, very helpful!

[@HS-wn7km]

I already know how it works, but I love the way you presented it, towers nd stuff. Couldn't be explained in any better way. I always say you're not just a good civ player, you're a very smart person/potato

[@HS-wn7km]

@PotatoMcWhiskey a few months ago I posted 2 threads on CivFanatics, detailing the tourism mechanics and describing a comprehensive EXCEL MODEL I had built (2 weeks of work), and which details the mechanics and automates all calculations involved (including all kinds of modifiers). It breaks down and automatically calculates the exported tourism figures to the other civs (which can be seen in the victory screen) and one can see how these numbers would change based on different decisions, e.g. changing government type. In my terminology, what I refer to as "foreign tourists" you named "visiting tourists" in this video. The excel spreadsheet also details how RELIGIOUS tourism is calculated and considers the effects of enlightenment + Cristo Redentor. It also estimates the additional number of turns needed to win (given current conditions) and shows how this number would change with different decisions. Once you understand the content, it's very easy to use since you only have to fill in a few inputs (highlighted in blue) and then everything else is automatically calculated + graphs and tables. I hope you check it out! Links below (R&F): forums.civfanatics.com/threads/tourism-pressure-calculation-excel-workbook.644952/#post-15432350 forums.civfanatics.com/threads/tourism-pressure-mechanics-and-formula-tourism-per-turn-sent-exported-to-other-civs.644951/

[@danielleb1253]

Not gonna pretend I understood all the math but this was SUPER helpful. Just knowing the difference between 1000 tourism right now vs 16 tourism *per turn* is tremendously useful. Thank you!! Really enjoy your how-to Civ videos

[@firealliancenx]

I just started playing and couldn't even win the tutorial, your tips have been super helpful. I look forward to more videos from you! Thanks!

[@AfshinR.Laroudi]

Thanks man! It was awesome! Can't remember the math for the life of me but, bottom line was crystal! Enjoyed your passionate explanation!

[@wilsontheknight]

Omg you’re the only KZbinr who gave a great explanation about tourism and how it works

[@CBruceNL]

I'm from Newfoundland and this channel satisfies my desired word per minute in a big way

[@jess1684]

Good way to explain a mechanic that the Civ 6 devs FAILED SO HARD to explain in game. In Civ 5 you had a concrete easy to understand graph that showed tourism vs culture in sets of bars, but in Civ 6 its depicted horribly. I'm STILL not sure if it functions similar to Civ 5 or not, but I'm guessing it is - but is just in a much more obscure and weird way. (Which you visualized for us)

[@eduardo3652]

You are actually pretty damn good at explaining complicated topics.

[@masterofgreymog5751]

In terms of density of useful information per minute this is the single best game tutorial video I have ever watched.

[@InuyashaHanyu]

I have one big problem with Rockbands, especially when at the stage where you get the card for promotion of choice. It has happened very often, that that one AI that generates the most culture has already that card that locks rockbands out of its territory, thus disabling you from using the best rockbands on the AI you need them on most.

[@PotatoMcWhiskey]

Personally never had that happen to me in my games

[@InuyashaHanyu]

@@PotatoMcWhiskey hmmm, it could be a patch update change, since before then it never happened. since then, 3 times.

[@bernardo-x5n]

Once happened to me.

[@zholm5842]

I think it's the latest update. Never had this happen to me before and in the last few weeks I've noticed it happening in every one of my games. Solutions: 1) make sure to pass everyone up on the civic tree by the time you get rock bands, 2) use the "Goes to Eleven" promotion and sent it to the neighbor of the civ you want to target.

[@jasonreed7522]

Its definitely a thing now, the AI always seems to enable that censorship card whenever the player is close to a tourism victory. Just like how they like to vote to strip you of your diplo victory points. (I wonder if its best to vote away your own points to get a point back on that resolution for voting for the winning option. At least compared to fighting it and still losing both points.)

[@Sunshine-cc7hq]

This was the best explanation for tourism I've ever heard thank you

[@Nugcon]

Imagine reading this title as someone who doesn't know anything about Civ6

[@WilliamCook1990]

I mean I completely understood this and am completely lost still -- but the little tutorial at the beginning was fantastic. Thank you!

[@ccubed7119]

Thanks for this very informative video. Looking forward to the followup.

[@traehesket8332]

Love this video, great information! I will have to watch it a second time to get everything, but I have a way better grasp on culture and tourism now

[@randallhollensbe734]

Excellent graphical explanation. Well done.

[@bernardo-x5n]

14:49 it is that rock bands performances on the same turn have the same results. I loved the maths!

[@jessewood3196]

Dude, the way you visually broke this down was AWESOME. Thank you so much. Is there a place to vote on suggested video topics/areas of help and improvement? Thanks.

[@TamAviv]

Thanks for doing a deep dive on this. I've been playing civ 6 since release and have never tried for a tourism victory since I had no idea how exactly it worked.

[@NYCCamper]

Except when they close the borders to rock bands.😭

[@zholm5842]

Get the "Goes to Eleven" promotion and send them to their neighbors.

[@jyutzler]

Last game the AI censored rock bands and I had two stranded in a city state's borders. It was like being stuck in Vatican City and not allowed to go into Italy.

[@jyutzler]

@@zholm5842 Another reason why I generally don't build rock bands until cultural hegemony.

[@ItsDredj]

Seeing this video, I can see how why my last game I tried at Culture lost. I was just sending my Rock Band around random sites, not against the other two Civs that were rivals.

[@muffinman2546]

I initially thought that this was a video of the battle of the ages between the two groups & not a q&a, lmao ;D

[@ProtonCannon]

Thank you for this! It was quite informative to shed some light into the mysterious arcane secrets of tourism! :D

[@alrown7476]

Xcom 90% chance to hit, miss 3x in a row -.-;

[@alliezah]

dude I missed 98% so many times, I lovehate that game

[@elvisthao9161]

Meanwhile, enemy has 33% chance to hit, kills two of my dudes.

[@RuiRuichi]

That's XCOM baby!

[@grouhls475]

Wow dude. Awesome. Just awesome. Thx a lot I needed that.

[@lucaswalsh227]

You're doing god's work. Honestly so useful!

[@michaelnagel2205]

Thank you. So helpful. I thought you explained Civ6 tourism quite well.

[@edwardrusk]

The important thing I learned from this is that you should target a specific civ with rock bands that you want to push down the culture victory pile. Thanks!

[@grabbers6520]

I have never really understood culture victories. Now I do. Thanks

[@pepijnwarmerdam8784]

The ameneties a national park generate is also nice. It can even increase your ability to generate faith (and other stats) if cities are happy or ecstatic, allowing you to buy more rockbands or naturalists

[@supersaiyanwilch]

Wait just a minute while I pick up the remainder of my grey matter off the floor from my head exploding. Joking aside, great vid Potato

[@Seagulls1994]

Thanks for breaking this down so well,

[@thewerlak]

The trouble I have with rockbands is if I wait to unlock cultural hegemony before buying them, my biggest culture rival almost always has the card to block rockbands or soon plugs it in after a few performances. I still can pull out the win like that on deity but it is frustrating. I guess I just need to generate more culture earlier overall to get there faster but I'm still figuring out how best to do that.

[@PotatoMcWhiskey]

Never had that happen to me. I apmost always win before I ever get to use rock bands properly.

[@thewerlak]

@@PotatoMcWhiskey I'm probably not using national parks effectively, usually just end up with 2-3. I need to start planning those a lot earlier in the game.

[@enderger5308]

14:45 - Actually, a 33% chance is a 33% chance almost exclusively in Foraxis games. Due to the human inability to fully grasp randomness, most games would actually label 5% as 33%. When you think about it, it makes sense that a 33% chance of retiring means that 1 in every 3 rock bands will retire when performing on that tile.

[@avo8]

"Asking and answering one simple question" :( I miss TB

[@Wesujin]

Great video, I learned a lot!

[@pearofclubs6280]

Was going for a culture victory against my friends in a game we're playing, so I came here for a little refresher. What I'm getting out of it is: 1. Naturalists are the strongest they'll ever be the moment you first unlock them. 2. Rock Bands are stronger the closer you are to a culture victory. 3. Up to 11 is insane if you find a spot that'll hit 3 or more civs. Thank you!

[@tesiu101]

Wow. I think now I get how turists work in civ 6. That was a great video

[@torhenryandreassen6144]

That opening. RIP TotalBiscuit's WTF is...

[@ConfidenceAryah]

Great informative video!

[@forestgreenhobbit]

Great video

[@mariosavage]

You can thank The Spiffing Brit for making me come here and learn something about a tourism victory.

[@jamesdinius7769]

I use rock bands earlier, but that's because I generally suck at optimizing my cities for national parks and find that I put districts in the way, or strategics spawn in unpleasant locations (I had a game where a coal that I absolutely needed was right next to Yosemite Valley, which sucked). Plus I can use production for base tourism in the form of Theater Square Festivals for Great Works and Builders for Seaside Resorts, and finally, i always forget how crucial faith is to the Tourism win.

[@jan-lukas]

6:57 stop! 2 does *not* equal 25! At 9:45 usually I would stop you there too, but in the case of Civilization 6 this is sadly right. (I mean 25% 3 times is *not* 75%, because you have to modify +25% first, take the result, modify +25% and so on)

[@horstgunther9521]

Great Video an thanks a lot for the great explanation and analogy:) The equation at 7:36 makes me wanna cry however:D don’t put inequal things on the left and right side of an equation Mark (is that a Word? „Istgleich“ in German).. there‘s written: 8=1600/16 or 1600/16=100/(8-1) and so on :D The Engineer inside of me is triggered hard by this one 😄

[@AceHardy]

👑

[@TommyLikeTom]

the tower analogy made me feel like I was 6 years old

[@beanburrito4405]

Wow, I didn’t think it would be this distinctly in the Rock Band’s favor, at least late game. I guess I never thought about how much 1000 (on average) instant tourism is when compared to about 16 tourism per turn to everyone in the game (and that’s only one charge, rock bands can keep playing indefinitely, assuming they don’t get bottom 2 tiers of performance. They’re pretty inconsistent, though, unlike natural parks). Not only that, I never knew that Rock Bands “stole tourists” from a specific player, I thought it was distributed across all civilizations evenly (side note, that analogy at the beginning of the video was incredible, great job on that)

[@Matsie36]

That is exactly the opposite of what I understood from the video. Until the policy card that allows choosing the promotion, they are only worth it if there is only one person left to culturally overtake.

[@MattSSPP]

@@Matsie36 Unless you have no place to put more Natural parks, then all you really have to spend your faith on is Rock Bands

[@Matsie36]

@@MattSSPPWell yes, but that is usually not the case in my games, the limiting factor for me is usually faith.

[@PingChungTsai]

The example you take at 12:26 that the Tourism/t should equal to 2250 not 2000, therefore it should generate nearly 9.8 Tourists/turn. And, on the next page, I can't understand the formula you wrote: 1. Why "400 Culture/t" should be divide by 100 in order to calculate his D.Tourists? Is that the rule? 2. Why the number of his D.Tourists/t should -1 in order to suggest that you're stealing one of them? Doesn't the 9.8 Tourists/t already include the "1" you're stealing? 3. If I follow the 90 D.T you just made up, should "the turns to win" be = 90 / |3 - 9.8| = ~13 turns?

[@francescocastellucci9086]

I would like to say, from a noobish point of view, that the number of national parks I can make any game is never bigger than two. I probably do something wrong on the line of over upgrading too many tiles, and then not removing the improvments when they are not necessary, but I always struggle to find available tiles for national parks out of the obvious easy impossable wonders. I wish they add the possibility to build national parks on coastal water also (and hybrid coastal+land). Maybe by adding an additional "water naturalist" that is unlocked with a later civic, something similar to the water park in relation to the entartainment district and the shipwreck to the antiquity site.

[@covovker]

Besides era score, parks also give you amenities. Actually, with the changes to river goddess my winning deity games stopped being dependent on getting coliseum, because the religion gets the amenities problems covered: river goddess in the early game, stupas in mid game and national parks later.

[@gopackgo1412]

THANK YOU DUDE

[@toibain2070]

Thanks that was informative

[@dragonexer1]

Can we talk about how amazing this title is out of context?

[@somebodyuknow2507]

I’m bad at planning ahead and I don’t tend to have more than 6 cities when I’m doing a culture game so for me it’s “place your 0-1 possible national parks and then spam rock bands”

[@liamsly2]

Man, that was great.

[@stebobibo]

Great video! Have you made that second video about tourism yet?

[@MovieRelated]

"I'm really bad at explaining things" Has 102K subscribers.

[@ThatsOneNiceKitty]

Watching this in 2024 to understand how to beat your "Reach for the Heavens" challenge.

[@nicksetaro8253]

Well explained.

[@edwardcollins8102]

Question about National Parks. Do they have to be workable by a city, or just in it's borders to get the tourism boost? Cities have 2 types of range. They expand to about 6 out, but you can only work 3 rings out. In that outer ring "dead" zone, would National parks work, or is it completely useless to have a city with that much borders?

[@l0remipsum991]

Idk but naturalists are better imo. Those juicy amenities. Rock bands can be cockblocked by placing civilian units on wonders, spaceport, etc.

[@maverickzawislak3068]

Also tourism from a park cannot be blocked. I find the AI is quick to deny rock bands access through a government card. Because of this I typically build ever park I can, despite the high cost, usually placing them in newer cities founded for a key resource or captured cities that won't have time to build up. Maybe you mentioned the card. Great explanation anyway!

[@sourabhmayekar3354]

Dude, can you explain the ski resorts and seaside resorts as well?

[@isaiahdebuck4097]

Last time I was this early gaming companies didnt DLC spam

[@kiwitea2451]

This is why you should stay in school if you want to be a streamer, kids. Literacy, numeracy, and crystal clear metaphors. Thank you Potato. (From a teacher who keeps encountering students who think they can just ignore school, drop out, and become a streamer).

[@PotatoMcWhiskey]

I taught myself everything I know actually 🤣

[@kiwitea2451]

@@PotatoMcWhiskey Good on you!

[@prospero70]

More guides, please!

[@davidanderegg1232]

Definitely agree that you should always buy any parks you want asap so you should never buy a rock band until your done with parks. Would love to see if we could find a way to actually calculate that point fast though. Do you know if stealing tourists can help another civ win?

[@altairauditoreh2682]

What about the music censorship card? A civ used one of those after o tryed to do some shows on them... took me a long time to win.

[@jeremywlett]

Oddly, I just finished my first game of Gathering Storm (AND Rise and Fall, I was behind), and I played as Kupe, who is just wow-holy-shit-overpowered. I ended up going with a science victory but I cranked out a few rock bands just because I didn't know what else to do with my faith and holy shit, did I get lucky with them. I played at least a dozen concerts before I lost my first band. I had one that got the +2 level on water parks, and played every water park IN THE WORLD on a HUGE map. At one point I had three bands pulling in 10 to high 20,000 each, and basically doing a concert every turn. I wasn't even going for culture, so some civs that I hadn't visited much or at all were at like 6 or 7 tourists per turn. The civs I targeted with rock bands were at mid-30 tourists per turn.

[@jeremywlett]

Kupe, tho. What the fuck. What the actual fuck. I had more cities with 100+ production. I almost had 400 production in my main spaceport city. It was fucking crazy.

[@ErekLich]

So basically you want all the national parks, as soon as possible, until you hit very late game.