Rogue Rotation Guide - PvE Raid Tutorial - Classic WoW - Raid Basics for MC/BWL/AQ/NAXX - SnD Timing

[@honestfan420]

Anyone else watching these videos in 2023 while playing their 60 Classic Era rogue?

[@xtadeus4777]

2024, level 23.

[@craigarmsworth3153]

2024 as well

[@gakhouse1636]

Fresh classic next week watching in preparation 😂 not played classic in alot of years

[@DamnDuff]

Anniversary realms baaaaybeeee

[@williammccarthy927]

all of sno's old content is bis

[@ErnestTheObserver]

Im a new rogue and these videos really help. Got multiple epic parses on my first MC run when having basically no gear. Good stuff!

[@MorsDengse]

My main raid problem is finding my toon on the screen, find the target, and get close enough to melee it ...

[@brandonbarker6009]

Welcome to melee

[@cptmorgans]

How have I only just found both your website and these videos!!! Superb info, extremely well presented! Thanks so much.

[@joshbertin8973]

New Fresh next week gotta brush up from the master. 🥰

[@tkgames6029]

what is the name of the background song? so chilly i want to spend my day listen this

[@larrynorris3604]

TY!!!!!!!!! im new to rogue as of October and this is a huge help

[@majinbu691]

finally I can use something to improve my parse thank you

[@petersingleton8904]

Thanks Sno! Shared this with the rogues in our guild, great video to get the basics down!

[@TimeTraveler-hk5xo]

Im missing the backstab > backstab > thistle tea > backstab > snd > pop cds > go for 5cp snd > go for 4/5cp eviscerate rotation. It has (at most) a 3 sec downtime of snd at the start of the fight, while the thistle tea is guaranteed to restore 100 or 99 energy and a quick 3cp snd. Of course its a big burst combo so not recommended to use this if your tank cant handle it. Thoughts?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

It's not a bad combo, but generally you only use the 3 bs opener with thistle tea if you specifically need a 3 pt snd to last a full fight without needing to refresh (razorgore can sometimes have awkward kill times like this). The 1 or 2 bs with renataki's is quicker to get up snd by 1 sec so a lot of people typically go for those first. Plus as you said that's a ton of burst early which can be a little scary for early threat.

[@roffo]

seems to me like rotation 4 is the way to go for daggers, more likely to have debuffs up then for that free backstab

[@Droolzgaming]

*roffo based god*

[@roffo]

@@Droolzgaming xD

[@Prophallus88]

So its better as a sword Rogue to put 3 points into improved slice and dice before 3 points into improved eviscerate? Im raiding and been using improved eviscerate all the time before slice and dice. Will my dmg output go up a lot if i make this switch? I mean improved eviscerate gives 15% extra dmg.

[@maxkronyak5385]

Eviscerate isn't really that important in the grand scheme of things. Most of your damage is white damage- which is why slice and dice is so important. Especially if you have windfury.

[@Justwoo]

another video with actual good info, thx for the shoutout 8)

[@nerdwhitenerd]

In every fight where there is a lot of mobs, i find it difficult to get good positioning if i go daggers. Swords are easier in that way that you can just go ham

[@byteme0000]

Agreed. Rogues may look cool being all dagger-y, but dagger rogues are a PITA to play in PvE because of the positioning requirements. I have several rogues in Classic Era, and I definitely prefer swords for PvE. I did keep one rogue as daggers and use her in PvP only, and of course that scenario works out just fine for daggers.

[@returnofmerenguespersempre]

Could i have a link to talents for dagger spec? Thanks for a great video!

[@Naraga033]

I'd like to know what the rotation is AFTER the opener and your cooldowns are spent. Assuming a longer fight (such as Nef) do you just fall back to the start of these rotations (so as sword after 5cp evi you go back to 2cp s&d -> 5 cp s&d -> 5 cp evi -> 2 cp S&d etc. etc? Or would it be better to settle into a rhythm where you set a 5 point s&d up and then do a 3/4 point evi (depending on ruthlesness proc) into another 5 point s&d?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

After your opener typically swords goes into a rhythm of 5 pt evis while keeping snd up whenever it's about to drop off. Then towards the end of a fight you want to be careful to not overspend points on snd again so you don't end the fight with 30 sec of snd for example when the boss dies in 10 seconds.

[@chrisoliver6207]

What is the addon that shows you the duration of your buffs/cd’s in bar form?

[@L0kacitron]

Hi, I have a question from watching your videos. You have Claw of the Black Drake and I'm wondering if it would be a better combo to have claw of the black drake + the ZG oh fist weapon instead of paring your Claw of the black drake with a arguably better dagger for your offhand with a fist weapon specc?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

generally there's a lot of much better dagger options than the zg oh fist. Unless you have no other good oh options it's not worth downgrading to the zg fist just because it's a claw.

[@benh.92]

Any comments on using Vanish to swap trinkets?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

vanish swapping doesn't work in classic unfortunately - bosses stay aggro'd in combat

[@Majkelnoodle]

This video is AWESOME! Are you planning to do something like this for tbc?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

yep for sure will do one

[@ChippiesBR]

I'm rocking seal fate and parsing in the blues. But it's way more fun ☺️

[@markelder5893]

seal fate is really fun. i'm hoping it will perform a bit better with deathdealer's 5 piece.

[@boytan8824]

As a dagger rogue, should you ever use eviscerate if you’re above ~1800AP? Besides maybe at the end of the fight when you won’t be able to get another backstab in

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

yes, the 1870/1875ish ap breakpoint is only for Vael where energy isn't important, but for pure energy efficiency vs backstab eviscerate is amazing because at 5 combo pts it only costs 10 energy (35 energy cost but -25 due to relentless strikes).

[@ryanweeks287]

What about openers? one bs > ambush or garrote?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

you typically don't open from stealth due to losing uptime running to the boss in stealth

[@jimmytran5346]

For your Dagger Rotation 4, where do your CDs fit in? After that 3 pt SnD?

[@redtuzk]

Most importantly remember to stab your enemy until it dies. - jk, good stuff man ❤️

[@tsui1024]

Is a triple backstab into snd with thistle tea an ok dagger opener?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

no - unless you have a reason to need 3 pt snd timing at the start i'd never do that. You miss out on haste time there, at most i'd do 2x backstab > tea > snd if you wanted to do tea opener (but watch aggro)

[@Retrokiller]

Ive noticed on aoe fights when you're using AR/BF using a Tea during it while energy at 0 will increase your damage as extra damage for blade flurry

[@jonatkinson108]

What is the addon that shows your casts (the addon moving horizontally at the bottom of your screen)

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

trufiGCD

[@adult_person2492]

Really nice video! What is the addon you have above your action bars around 08:00?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

that's trufiGCD add on

[@LHans101]

nice addon, is there a place that i can download the whole setup?

[@kidspecial9812]

Hello there, great video! What is the spell tracker you have for your spells above your spells ?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

That's trufiGCD

[@kidspecial9812]

@@ClassicRoguecraft thank you :)

[@markelder5893]

oh man... the worst feeling ever is when you have 60 energy... you hit backstab and immediately thistle tea... only to see they dodged the backstab. makes me cry myself to sleep.

[@peterradziewicz4685]

Dudeee I get dodged so much lately especially on ebonroc and flamegor I got dodged on backstab 6x this past lockout on chrommagus too kms

[@peterradziewicz4685]

And I have 17% hit lol

[@markelder5893]

@@peterradziewicz4685 hit doesn't help with dodges, unfortunately :( only weapon skill does, and only by a tiny amount

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

you know the real pain!

[@rumham7631]

shit happens way too often.. dodge chance must spike to 85% right before you're ready to use thistle tea

[@Triggga]

Do you have a whole UI pack or something. Setup video for your addons. Your UI is nice, would love to use it.

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

not a whole pack, but I have a list of my weakauras and what I use with with elvui and such to make my UI look the way it does. You can find it at classicroguecraft.com/rogue-ui-weakuras/

[@Ukrox]

what's the name of the add-on that shows the use of abilities next to your character descending

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

TrufiGCD

[@Ukrox]

@@ClassicRoguecraft ty

[@Ewhit-je3os]

So how do your rotations change with the introduction of earth strike/jom? Or even veiled shadow set

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

They don’t really change much there. Still the same rotations overall, but you might do some slight changes in regards to jom Gabbar usage, but that’s it’s own thing completely. Earthstrike and aq20 set don’t need you to change your overall rotation

[@kaschpa7696]

Hello :) High parses are not so important for me , but what id love to know is the perfect balanced PVE and PVP Talent Tree. The point is, not to pay 50Gold all the time :) Cheers

[@kaschpa7696]

BTW i wanna go with Daggers, but im not sure cause i never tried yet in a raid.. i have the Qiraji Sacrificial Dagger from AQ 20 and the Ripper from MC which are the best i think. i got a few more but this 2 daggers have the highest dps and stats i think. So as Dagger Rogue my main ability is Backstab, but can i use SS too ? I mean ofc i can, espacially in PvP situations i guess ?! :P

[@kaschpa7696]

The next thing is, im bound on my Rend Swords since 1 year and never had Luck getting better swords. My Goal at the moment is Brutality Blade and hakkari warblade.. That would be so nice. But after 40 ZG runs i have seen it drop 1x times, no joke. Well and im not playing 24/7 but .. wtf i still playing with Rends, which do good dmg but its time to upgrade. BTW i got the 2 Rends Swords in 2 Runs at 1 Day.. funny ha. Maby i raid Naxx with my Rends :)

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

there's no real balanced pve and pvp spec unfortunately.

[@realBanZaipanda]

DId someone already do the math on the order in which to pop the CDs as an orc rogue? Like AR -> Blade Flurry -> Blood Fury or in another order?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

personally I'd do AR > BF > BF. it shouldn't make a big difference either way but I like Blood fury last to give myself the most time with orc racial to time in thistle tea and other things

[@realBanZaipanda]

@@ClassicRoguecraft Yeah that was my thought process as well. Only Problem might be blocking those three GCDs as a dagger rogue and not waste energy. So maye it's better to pop all of this at low energy levels.

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

Got questions? Come ask them in the Classic Roguecraft discord! Over 3.3k members and counting: discord.gg/T9XQJw7gJj

[@jamessarrasin4500]

i like the layout of the video very well done :) the part going over sword rotations, if you can afford to wait to pop cds during the 5 point slice n dice instead of during the 2 point, you can get 2x 5 point eviscerates in your cd window (with thistle tea/ren trinket) w/o having to spend combo points on a non damage spender during ur orc racial, if ur orc

[@demigodzx]

Whats the combo point addon?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

@@demigodzx part of redtuzk UI

[@marcelgramatzki8146]

When i use my 2 CDs as Human Rogue with the Rotation 4 u showed us :)? After the Rotation or at the begin? Very good Video =)

[@Julez3133]

how much of a damage increase is timing ur swing?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

none in tbc, this video was pre tbc. You don't need to do that anymore since swings aren't reset

[@Julez3133]

@@ClassicRoguecraft wait are u dead ass man I've been doing it since launch fuck me why did i not know this

[@scorepro5059]

Thanks for the video, just what I wanted. Now where do I go to practice my rotations? What’s that mob you use in the video?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

these are ghosts at the end of dm tribute. You can sneak in solo if you're careful but it's a bit tricky. Easiest way is to pay a hunter 5g for their instance after they finish their tribute run. There's also mobs in blasted lands that are immune iirc and you can practice on those too

[@mmikepatriot]

@@ClassicRoguecraft do you get weapon skill from the dmn ghosts?

[@johncurry7225]

@@mmikepatriot Yes, you do get weapon skill and they don't attack back. So the challenge is just to find someone that will sell you or let you in a cleared DMN tribute run. The blasted lands mobs fight back for a bit, get stunned, fight back again, so on. They are really weak though and you can go there anytime

[@xbriskx]

Also combat swords on vael... I have faceless on MH but OH should I use CtS or Hakkari?

[@Droolzgaming]

I'm in the same boat as you and I pick Hakkari 40 AP OH.

[@SolusBatty]

This is brilliant. Thank you so much for your work. :)

[@doomzx8284]

Don't understand why simply the best opener is not Backstab + backstab before energy tick, and using Thistle tea for full 100 energy since u can spend it right away on 3rd backstab and meanwhile have 40 energy left with + 20 energy incoming which gives u right away 3 SND CP opener + full energy value, i've been doing like that and it works like a charm every single time. :P

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

It's not horrible, but that opener is very early threat spiky, which can be rough particularly for horde to open using that opener. It also gets snd 2 globals later than the typical 1 bs opener into snd so there's a very slight trade off in your snd uptime.

[@YUQI____]

Do you use blade flurry for single target rotation ?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

yes, blade flurry is good even if just used for the atk speed increase

[@kwonderland89]

vid starts at 5:48

[@brettself4520]

Is murder always better than ruthless ness as daggers?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

i'd go murder for BWL because it works well there, but in AQ I could see a lot of people swapping out of murder because it doesn't work on most AQ bosses

[@aramgarabedian1452]

How do you feel about using Renataki's during AR as a sword rogue? You said it's not recommended to use thistle during AR, but lately I've been using Renataki's during AR while my energy is at 0 (barring any missed attacks) and trying to time it right as my energy tick resets. I feel like because energy ticks at 40 instead of 20 in AR, it gives me an immediate 1-2 extra SSs whereas without the trinket I'd be waiting another 2 seconds for that extra 40 energy. Any feedback on this would be much appreciated =)

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

in general it's fine, but you just need to be super careful of overcapping energy. As swords it's a little safer since you can keep energy a little lower than daggers, but obviously still want to be careful.

[@badconker83]

i got a question, no one could answer me before. i see you use NUGRUNNING Addon. how can i seperate the cooldowns from active cd´s and stuff? i do not get it ^^ please help me.

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

It's pretty confusing to do honestly. Join the discord and I have some brief instructions stickied in the UI guides channel there for nugrunning.

[@k2k4]

~5:40 wtf was that 2400 backstabs!? Seems like a bit much.

[@nathanrebello300]

if you look at the logs from that run he crits as high as 2765 with backstab

[@EvanWSH]

i mean ive seen shadowbolts do over 7k lol

[@2ny424]

13k frostbolt gang

[@k2k4]

But do you do that as often as mcstabby in the video? As a rogue player I get like 1800 as my high crits and I'm decked out in p4 BIS (minus accuria ring, dft trinket, firemaw cloak, and magmadar bow). The difference is probably the buffs he's using, though I don't go all out on these since my playtime is usually raid time only.

[@danielstarr8957]

Can you level up your weapon skill on that ogre?

[@TRG29338]

Yes

[@JetcannonM]

These ranks do mean a lot, they tell you that the rogue gathers buffs and uses the best pots investing money and time into getting them and for all raid runs. It means that the guild is good and does not whipe removing your buffs and it mens that your guild is good enough to make boss fights very short increasing your score since damage falls off the longer a fight goes on, a fight for a good guild often lasts the duration of your popped cooldowns, so a shorter fight gives a better average. It also means that not only the rogue but all members of the raid are fully buffed so this can be achieved. A fully buffed rogue alone can not parse high without his team members parsing high as well, you parse high together, pumping out monster damage together in the least amount of time possible so dps doesn't fall of and records a average of very high and fast damage.

[@rumham7631]

rogues in the best guilds don't even use their cooldowns on bosses though(outside of a few), they use them on trash. Why use CD's on bosses when you can get twice as much damage out of them by using them on trash? That's what's shitty about this classic meta is that it actually encourages poor and selfish play. Hoarding cooldowns to inflate your boss parses is such a dumb and counterproductive way of playing the game, but unfortunately that's what people have resorted to because that's what shows up on your WCL profile

[@Авантюрист-с1я]

What's the addon name that shows your rotation on the bottom?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

TrufiGCD

[@Авантюрист-с1я]

@@ClassicRoguecraft With love from Flamegore, 25:10 BWL

[@a1no1x]

So no garrote into SnD to start?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

yeah never open with garrote in general on raids because it uses a debuff slot as well.

[@a1no1x]

@@ClassicRoguecraft Ah ok, thank you. I was thinking about it and figured maybe the possible sword proc comes into factor as well?

[@xbriskx]

How bad is it to pop AR + BF cooldowns to only build up the CP to use on a 5 point SnD?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

On first rotation without getting snd up first you mean? It's not ideal, you lose a lot of snd time doing it that way instead of just getting a quick snd up first.

[@xbriskx]

@@ClassicRoguecraft on the 2nd rotation after you have initial 2 CP SnD in sword spec?

[@GilgameshApproves]

Anyone knows the addon who shows the abilities he uses, right above the action bar?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

TrufiGCD

[@cadeharrison7666]

Thanks Snomie!

[@nubl3718]

Which mob are you using to test rotation?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

Ghosts at the end of dire maul north

[@nubl3718]

@@ClassicRoguecraft Thank you. One other thing, I thought on stream you said you don't need to time swings with HoJ assuming no other reason to, but here it implied it is worth it?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

@@nubl3718 in general swing timing isn't something I recommend for most folks, it's something I only tell people to do when they get everything else figured out first

[@nubl3718]

@@ClassicRoguecraft Ah yes I understand, but I was just wondering whether it is a theoretical DPS gain with HoJ

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

@@nubl3718 yeah it it, although hoj is currently buggy in that it batches the extra swing, so I'm not even sure if timing the swing will fully help if it batches it anyway

[@nith5663]

these s&d optimizations realy don't matter unless you know exactly what the kill time will be

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

You mean the part 6 advanced rotation section on slice and dice editing? If you mean that then I agree. That part is meant to be more of an introduction to the idea of editing snd timings to match short kill times as explained there. The rotation there is just an example of one possible alteration.

[@luisbasurto6296]

I love what you do! Keep it up! Question: do you bring Dragonbreath Chilli to raids for extra dps?

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

not usually, but it's something i'd do if I was absolutely min/maxing a raid. Have to be a bit careful of buff cap though when adding in those extra buffs like chili or oil of immolation

[@exstrackt]

Addon ??

[@pauwels_francois_djset]

solid :)

[@sebastianlovenhjelm3100]

How to 99 as a rogue: beg your guildmate to get you WCB on a dmg week

[@CLOWEN2010]

Undead sword rogue. Cts main hand. Brutality blade or hakari OH is bis

[@ClassicRoguecraft]

hakari warblade oh beats bb if you're asking which of those 2 is better offhand.

[@HolisticHabits88]

♥

[@jeremylowe7029]

So Rogues in classic are basically a two-button rotation? Sounds super boring.

[@BurakSerdar]

trufiGCD looks good :P < amedeus

[@Redbaron_Gaming]

You can tell how old this is that he is still talking like people give a shit about parses xD

[@junchao4789]

believe me. People still do