Role Play Gaming's Missing Rule

[@christopherknorr2895]

Monks would be good at running away. Because they're always being chaste.

[@cdgonepotatoes4219]

+Christopher Knorr that pun is so stupid it's almost too funny to be legal

[@PhilJonesIII]

+Christopher Knorr Yea but they had nasty habits.

[@bullseyedustrunescape5951]

+Christopher Knorr This should be an actual rule.

[@Xeno426]

Doubly funny in D&D because the monk class gets bonuses to movement speed, making them better at running.

[@SeanDDaily]

_badum tish_

[@bubbleheadft]

I'm not terribly used to sound effects in Lindybeige videos. The door slam scared me.

[@HappyCynic]

+bubbleheadft Not just me then. I was at work at the time of watching this, so it made me jump all the more.

[@charliegaunt]

+bubbleheadft Spoiler!!

[@ravenzacharysteele8963]

+Charlie Gaunt He dies at the end.

[@jek__]

I read this ahead of time and it still startled me

[@TheDeadbone1961]

Yes, I jumped at that one.

[@Hjerrick]

I absolutely love you videos' minimalist production value. A sound effect here and there does so much to make the video engaging and interesting (the fact that you're a fantastic, er, speaker? is another matter) I've been a subscriber of yours for a few years now, but I don't think I've ever really complimented you on this one very unique and lovely aspect of your videos.

[@ville307]

Hjerrick Also no begging for likes shares and subscribing. The good content is enough for me to remember to like this and be subscribed. If I think the topic interests my friends I might even share it.

[@DrEdgarr]

And dont forget his Charming British huzzah attitude. One of the my best youtubers

[@leafster9273]

You're prob geyy

[@Hjerrick]

***** No you are!

[@cancerousmemes136]

brave sir Robin would be great in all 3 categories

[@colbonthecob2530]

🎶"When danger reared it's ugly head, around he turned and away he fled"🎶

[@cancerousmemes136]

ColbOnTheCob "Yes, Brave Sir Robin turned about And gallantly he chickened out"

[@alexdhamp]

lol Dat _Monty Python and the Holy Grail_ reference...all you're missing is the "hoof beats" sound produced with two coconut shells... XD

[@orangeflame568]

"Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat"

[@JeromeSkavenSlayer]

Orange Flame You lie! I didn't!

[@CommadoreGothnogDragonheart]

D&D 5e page 252. Three full pages on chases. :) The section is broken into: Beginning a Chase, Running the Chase, Ending the Chase, Chase Complications (which includes a couple cool random tables of things that can complicate chases), splitting up, mapping chases, and role reversal. It's really well thought out but still simple enough to keep the action moving. Edit: Also, Call of Cthulhu has an entire chapter dedicated to chases.

[@kevinsullivan3448]

And only 30 years after a couple dozen other games published in the 80s.

[@Dragonzzilla]

Sometimes it's an outsider's eyes that allows us to see. I never thought of this before! Good job again, Lindybeige! I like your insights on throwing authenticity into roleplaying.

[@DevilsAdvocateofnazareth]

***** I don't think he's an outsider: he talks about this with far more authority, and far too often, to be an outsider. For instance, I honestly have no idea what he's talking about.

[@Dragonzzilla]

Devils Advocate He isn't an avid roleplayer, I meant in that. He's said as much before.

[@DevilsAdvocateofnazareth]

***** oh, ok.

[@rosicroix777]

Agreed! Very last game I DM'ed I put a chase through the town in it & the players loved it, 20 yrs later whenever I bump into 1of them they talk about it like it was their favorite TV series. Wish I was creative enough to have thought it up & incorporated it into the adventures earlier as I did well w/incorporating backstories & lots of actual roleplay rather than just the old hack n slash. Dammit Lindy, these videos really made me go back to nostalgia land (1990-1995). LOL. Keep up the great work.

[@Edithae]

The D&D 5e DMG has a section on chases.

[@TPBurrow]

+Ka MiK Yes and it includes everything you mention from obstacles to speed and distance. Page 252 of the Games masters handbook D&D 5e

[@sleepywoodelf]

+Ka MiK Was gonna comment this. The premise of the video is, "games lack this", but D&D 5e has it, so the point is moot.

[@ConradLarsonGaming]

+Seth Harbert When did 5e come out?

[@sleepywoodelf]

+Pendragon About a full year before this video.

[@ConradLarsonGaming]

Seth Harbert Ah fair enough... I don't play DnD so I literally have no idea.

[@TheCanterlonian]

tiredness should also be added for chases

[@alexdhamp]

Yeah, stamina or endurance affecting your fatigue which in turn effects how fast your character runs and how well they do things in the middle of a chase.

[@TheCanterlonian]

Kami Nana exactly!

[@METALGEARMATRIX]

In Dungeons and Dragons it'd be a like a Fortitude (or Constitution if you're a 5e pleb) save after a certain amount of time. Every minute or so.

[@alexdhamp]

WarMachineBrony I really only played Shadowrun so I think it would be a Body check, there? Been ages since I've played... >.

[@METALGEARMATRIX]

+Kami Nana I love Shadowrun! In the newest edition I'd probably just to an opposed Body+Agility test Agility for speed Body for endurance.

[@ImrazorZodd]

The start of this. Yes, that is my biggest problem with role playing. It took my group and me ages to get over the "kill all the things" mentality. I was so proud when we spent a whole session in one room devising plans. Never thought about chases. Not my biggest interest but you've definitely put it on my radar.

[@headrockbeats]

Two men crossing with a large glass plate should have a probability of around 1:1.

[@Nygaard2]

Savage Worlds had pretty detailed chase rules - though in the later versions they have been simplified a lot. Besides since Savage Worlds have a running die - so most short chases are pretty easy and have a good random factor built in.

[@Csatadi]

Lindybeige is always referring to D&D but Savage Worlds is more fun. It has no classes either and needs fewer and shorter books. :)

[@Nygaard2]

Yeah - I agree. It's often hard to change systems, though - so if Lindybeige and his friends are used to something, it's often not worth the hassle to use something else. But if there is one thing more people playing other systems should consider, it's using playing cards for initiative. More than anything in Savage Worlds it speeds things up in combat, IMO.

[@HSnake5]

In GURPS 4th edition there are skills not necessarely made for, but surely applicable to, chases and pursuits. Not only is every character given their max speed based on dexterity and health, you can also purchase individual points to running, jumping, climbing, etc. A smart GM can make the most of these skills and use them in a chase scene or what have you. And the neat thing is, chases cannot be infinite because in GURPS you spend fatigue points for extended periods of running and fighting. So it can also become a gamble or part of strategy to decide to give chase for a prolongued period of time. As it could happen, like it did to me, that I finally caught the thief but I was so tired because my knight in plate armor ran for almost a minute straight, that he managed to escape by shoving me aside and climbing a window.

[@Nolinquisitor]

Havoc Jaeger As Havoc said, plus GURPS let you play a chase as a Quick Contest of Skills (i.e. Running vs. Running, Driving vs. Driving... or more interestingly Driving vs. Running).

[@HSnake5]

Nolinquisitor Oooh yes, thank you! I even forgot about car chases.

[@MWSin1]

Havoc Jaeger The GURPS Action supplements (specifically Action 2: Exploits), include some more substantial chase rules.

[@HSnake5]

MWSin1 It's a shame so few people don't use it because they're intimidated by the insane amount of rules. However you can just toss most of them out the window for narrative sake.

[@CarnalKid]

Havoc Jaeger I have yet to see a Lloyd RPG gripe vid that couldn't be fixed with GURPS.

[@MBOmnis]

D&D masters could improvise checks on Dexterity, Reflex saving throw or acrobatic-related skills such as Jump, Climb or Tumble to affect a chase sequence.Less dexterous characters could trip on obstacles or on their own feet, characters with less Constitution wouldn't be able to chase for as long as tougher-built characters and so on... A Dungeon Master able to improvise and think outside the box is a good Dungeon Master. Especially since it's unfeasible to have a rulebook covering every single imaginable scenario.

[@kevinsullivan3448]

Yes, but it's not built into the game. The GM would have to make his own rules based on extrapolations of other rules.

[@matthewpatton9221]

@@kevinsullivan3448 There is a perfectly described chase mechanic built into D&D 3.5e. Sprinting is 5x movement speed. Prolonged sprinting requires increasingly difficult (Can't remember the exact formula but something like base 10+1/minute of consecutive sprinting) constitution checks to maintain pace. If you fail a CON check you will become fatigued, which is -2 to just about everything, and a second failure means exhaustion and you can no longer sprint. Uneven or treacherous terrain requires balance checks. Jump and tumble checks get a bonus while running. I feel like the only person that actually read the core rule books beyond the character creation and combat chapters.

[@Wourghk]

7th Sea actually has an entire section of their GM's rule book dedicated to chases.

[@mariav6266]

I really liked the points you made in this video, especially because I have roleplaying character whose entire theme/skill set is based on speed, and finding strategic routes. In other words, she is very, very good at running away, and would do great in one of those action movie chase scenes. The problem is, I don't feel like she gets very many chances to do this when I play D&D. Anyway, great video!

[@TheCaboose568]

Well for chases there are running rules, reliant on DEX and speed both, some have vehicle combat for anything from wagons to hoverboards, I know for sure Pathfinder has archetypes based on vehicles and chasing, archery can tie into chasing people into a trap with things like flaming arrows to light up blockades, etc.

[@AngusKhan21]

the 5th edition Dungeon Master's Guide for D&D has a segment in it for determining what happens in a chase sequence and it is diverse for different terrain. You roll on a table and different things happen, such as a cart pulling between you on a road while chasing a man through a city, or you needing to vault over a small chasm in the mountains (which would require an athletics check). Where it really becomes a problem is when DMs dont have characters flee early enough in a fight sequence, and characters don't often flee themselves.

[@tf2whackyengineer]

Spycraft D20 has some chase rules, among rules for just about everything else, including an alternate take on armor class and damage.

[@robertmowrey2009]

Thank you for reiterating what we all encounter. My friends and I never remember everything to work on. I think it is useful to have the rounded set of disciplines you seem to have through which to analyze these question. We always took to heart the words in the books saying that the rules were mutable and more like suggestions. We were lucky enough to have an intersection of every strata of social distinction and intellectual capability to make our systems living. We erred to the side of stagecraft and enjoyed a more engaging experience.

[@ethelion9412]

Torchbearer which is from The Burning Wheel use the same rules for: Pursue/Flee, Drive Off, Trick/Riddle, Convince, Capture, Banish/Abjure, Kill or any other situation you can think of. So its not just 'I see a monster, lets hit it till it dies'.

[@willyq25]

So happy someone brought up the Luke Crane games! I've used the conflict system for everything from fights, chases, to trying to get through a blizzard!

[@Ralfarius]

Dan Meaden Yes, this! Burning Wheel, or any derivative (Mouseguard, Torchbearer et al) has really fun, reasonably abstracted ideas for any conflict be it physical, social or intellectual. It has a great sense of spreading around everyone's actions, each character acting as a part of the team and actually matching actions against the opponents instead of a 'trade blows one-two-one-two' like so many other initiative-based systems. It even has rules for designing conflicts on the fly, and how to decide what sort of action would represent the straightforward attack/tricky feint/fallback to defend/maneuver to a new angle. I highly recommend any person interested in conflicts beyond 'use feat, swing sword, cast spell' give Luke Crane's games a look.

[@houndofchulainn76]

Dan Meaden I've been searching the comments looking for someone recommending Burning wheel. Found it. Lindy seems like the perfect candidate for BW rules.

[@AxenFrite]

Great point, Lindybeige. I've watched hundreds of RPG videos on youtube. I've seen _one_ video on "How to do a chase scene."

[@Inaluogh]

I'm pretty sure more than one edition of Dungeons and Dragons have rules for chases.

[@slendy9600]

Inaluogh Call of Cthulhu and Burning Wheel both have opposed skill tests which can easily be used to determine chase scenes (i think burning wheel has some specific rules specifically for chases

[@Inaluogh]

It very well may that be he never had a proper DM.

[@luxrolls1589]

why can't if find people like these that speek English

[@xmichaud]

yep. Pathfinder has it in its core. But it's only a page.

[@gorchek]

And for more interesting chases, Paizo made the Chase Cards. Each card has an obstacle, and two skills to avoid it. Plus, it covers cities, dungeons, and wilderness chases (although wilderness is a more long-range chase).

[@eloepker]

Once, again, a great video! A game called Battle Troll (it's a Viking RPG) uses movement based on dice: 1d6 for being sneaky, 2d6 for normal movement, and 3d6 for high speed movement. On normal and high speed movement getting all 1s results in the character falling down, tripping, etc ... effectively stopping movement for that turn (or round). This provides a resolution to sprinting and chasing. But, I hadn't thought about variables for the long pursuit. Great point.

[@TheSecondVersion]

"The Man in Black fled across the desert, and the Gunslinger followed."

[@BlackburnBigdragon]

The "James Bond 007" Role playing game from "Victory Games" had fantastic chase rules. It's one of the only games I ever encountered with actual chase rules and they were really well done. It covered everything from foot chases to vehicle chases and could recreate any type of craziness involved in such a chase sequence.

[@gregorstamejcic2355]

Action and ROMANCE, Lindy! What are the rules for chasing TAIL? just comparing charisma scores, leading to, possibly, some sort of dexterity/constitution based event?

[@Stealthwilde]

Gregor Stamejčič We're not entering your Magical Realm, Gregor.

[@Anthropomorphic]

Gregor Stamejčič I think there was a D20-book dedicated to this. "The Book of Erotic Fantasy" or something.

[@cnawan]

Gregor Stamejčič For the last time Gregor, there will be no rolls for this. You must seduce the DM. Seduuuuuuce him. OK Go.

[@LordPindar]

Gregor Stamejčič Apocalypse World makes sex a relevant part of the game. I think Houses of the Blooded puts emphasis on romance as well, but I haven't played it so I cant vouch. I'm shore there are others as well. Pendragon focuses on the internal struggle of conflicting emotions (such as Lancelot's loyalty to the king, and his love for the queen)

[@kevinsullivan3448]

Lifragen But the Book of Erotic Fantasy and others like it weren't published by Wizards of the Cost. It's a 3rd party supplement. When FATAL included SEX in the rules theye got all kinds of greif from sexually reatarded players.

[@innocentBystander19]

I absolutely agree. I've had a few really great chase sequences in my roleplaying games that really stuck with the players. I'd love to see more videos like this, because you always bring up something that is often overlooked. I'm in the process of creating a roleplaying game, and it gives equal treatment to non-combat skills. Not everyone is good at fighting, and how much you progress in a game shouldn't be dependent on how many creatures you kill.

[@Stealthwilde]

I think a worse issue with RPGs than an obsession on combat is the obsession with collecting loot. The whole Kill Mans And Take Their Stuff thing that D&D uses as it's main theme has polluted the minds of casual RPG players so much that it makes running game systems that aren't focused on doing that a lot harder.

[@lukutiss1324]

Stealthwilde Solution: don't have loot. I don't mean completely get rid of it, but don't make it so that everywhere you go you have to get some amount of gold just because you won a fight.

[@Stealthwilde]

When you have players conditioned to expect that by D&D, doing that becomes nigh on impossible. They literally loot everything they can.

[@Stealthwilde]

***** Or when they decide to steal a baby. That actually happened by the way.

[@lukutiss1324]

I think making items pretty mundane and cheap solves looting. You need a sword? It's a simple sword. It's cheap. Maybe occasionally they find a rare weapon/item that's slightly better than something they can buy for a little bit.

[@Stealthwilde]

lukutiss1324 It doesn't help. I didn't have any magical items in the game I was running, and they still went around looting everything they could find.

[@Tehsnakerer]

My favourite system is Savage Worlds, that has rules to cover on foot/vehicle chases, I only used them a handful of times in the game I ran but they are fun, can definitely be more dramatic than fights. Kept reasonably abstract to suit the pulp movie tone but mechanically deliberate enough that you know what is going on. I'd definitely recommend giving the book a read.

[@UKMonkey]

"Why are there not rules for chasing" there are - almost all of them have a feat that gives you bonuses for long distance running. The closing the door - you can absolutely do that ... you just need a DM that would decide that the NPC wants to flee. I think this is significantly more about the DM and their play style rather than the rules of the game.

[@arctrog]

there's rules for chasing in almost every RPG system too, it's just an underutilized system because players never run

[@Faxanadu_]

I've had a game master that liked to make us chase after enemies, or once, each other because one of us suddenly double crossed us for some reason. It was pretty fun seeing whether or not we got what we were after or they got away. Would love to see more of this.

[@Ichithix]

I think chase rules, or sometimes broader extended contest rules, are becoming a fairly common thing in RPGs these days. I don't know that it's more common than not, but looking over the games I have an awful lot of them have chase rules. Do you play many modern roleplaying games?

[@TheVoxxification]

DND 4's DM handbooks example for a skill challenge was actually a chase through the city.

[@neukworst]

When running you have strength check vs your carrying load that can decrease your speed. Than each round you make constitution check to see if you endure if not your speed goes down. At least thats how we always played d&d 2.5 a combo of str-dex-con and kilos of loot/gear

[@alexdhamp]

Sounds like a good start...now factor in obstacles...especially if someone's character is a freerunner/traceur. Meaning they could better traverse any given terrain to either aid them in their escape or catching the one they pursue.

[@Zadentai]

In D&D we used dexterity checks for chases. Can you dodge the person your target just knocked over to block you? Can you jump over the overturned table,etc. For sprints we used a simple house rule. You can sprint (double movement speed) for as many rounds as your endurance. After that,you are fatigued for half the time you sprinted. Pursuit is really simple, with tracking, camping, etc. But yes, game systems tend to be vague on things like this. It's up to the players and the GM to come up with some good house rules.

[@Pseudomuse_]

this is the opinions of somebody that glaring used 2nd or 3rd edition dnd. both 4th and 5th have chases and building interesting scenarios involving chases. like somebody else mentioned, maybe he just never had a decent dm that knew how to build proper encounters and adventures.

[@peridoodle2644]

Lately I've been working on writing a Madoka Magica D&D session, and this gave me a perfect idea for several new encounters to put in it! Thanks Lindy!

[@-kenik9629]

I've noticed a lot of roleplay games pay no nevermind to cooking. I mean it's not extremely hard, but it's not something you want to screw up. Especially since a good diet can be the difference between life and death if things are already close.

[@aLukepop]

Kenik Kress Many seem to just go with "survival" type skills. You know, tracking and whatnot.

[@-kenik9629]

Food is a bit more complicated than "Nutrition" and "Calories". There are many important types of the former, and a few kinds of the latter. And getting food isn't always things like foraging or hunting, being able to buy the right rations, or preserve your own food is important to be able to survive in low food environments. Not to mention there's basically no way to fail at cooking in these games, I'd love for it to be easy but possible to screw up just because there'd more for the characters to talk about. Basically I'm a little dissatisfied with the normal options. I mean how else can we have an alchemist that can't cook a meal to save his life? That kind of complexity is always fun to make.

[@R3K7NO]

in D&D, at least 3rd edition, and 3.5, have rules for this. Double move, and running at x3, x4, and with a feat, x5. You make fortitude saves to see if you can continue running, and survival checks to navigate the terrain. Alternatively, Pursuit over long time would be survival checks to track your quarry through the land, and possibly endurance checks to avoid exhaustion and fatigue while your party and quarry are moving at an advanced pace and not resting as much. I know it's long after you posted this video, but I hope this helps. Love your videos. :)

[@Magnymbus]

These are a thing in GURPS if you have a good GM.

[@Setaro]

The Warhammer 40k RPG rules have lots of ways to deal with this. Grabbing the guy before he runs out the room can be a simple agility test with + or - modifications for relevant difficulty. Chasing can be done with a combination of many skills such as agility tests, perception tests (to keep sight of them/hear them), navigation [surface] skill (knowledge of the layout of cities, etc), logic skill tests to deduce routes the escapee might have took, and loads more stuff. Pursuits and chases can also use the tracking skill, which is rolled against the targets concealment skill if he's hiding nearby. Added in to this is a lot of skills and traits like moving through crowds without movement penalties, catfalling, climbing etc. that could occur during the chase.

[@mandolinic]

My special skill: Running away.

[@alexdhamp]

Is your name Sir Robin? XD

[@TheXenomorphman]

Definitely not Sir Rickon, that's all I know.

[@nicejungle]

best skill ever for call of cthulhu :D

[@CrizzyEyes]

Chases are something that me and my group appreciate. A good chase before a fight is always a great way to ratchet up tension. In my Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay group (2nd edition), our group was attending a party with the fellow that our group is currently trying to take down, but he believes that we are trying to work for him. This party was, essentially, supposed to be a loyalty-building event. He showed us more and more unsettling things, testing our reactions, until finally he brought out a Fiend of Slaanesh (think demon horse with an anteater face, horns, and a scorpion tail), and told us to kiss it. For those who don't know, this isn't something we can easily fight at our stage in the game, and especially not at a party when we're armed with evening wear and knives. We resisted its lures and decided that now that everyone else was intoxicated with this thing's musk, it was time to leave. The party had taken place in secret in a Dwarven catacomb and now, the town watch (who are in on the whole thing) are chasing after us, as well as that thing. We need to make Agility tests to determine how well we're doing in the chase. My character is in the lead, but our pilgrim of Shallya is falling behind, who is very close friends with our Dwarf. The Dwarf decides to fall behind and urge her along, but it's not enough. Finally we emerge on the home stretch, a long corridor leading to the stairs up to the surface. We can see the eyes of the fiend glowing in the darkness behind us and hear it barreling down the corridor. The Dwarf decides to make a stand, telling us to leave while he holds the line. The pilgrim and I each turn and throw our knives at the thing; the pilgrim makes a very lucky shot, hitting it in the neck. The Dwarf, prepared, receives its charge and manages another good hit. Then, he asks the GM if he can try to remove the dagger stuck in its neck because having two daggers would give him a free Parry action. He allows it with an Agility test. The Dwarf gets lucky again and rolls under his mediocre Agility score, retrieving the second dagger. He then manages to defend against the fiend's lashing tongue twice and cause it to fail its second instability check -- Daemons have to maim something if they've taken damage, or else their link to reality becomes unstable and they can return to the Warp, a more abstract version of Hell. The corrupt town guard begins to emerge, but the Dwarf is already most of the way down the corridor and he catches up to us in the graveyard above. This would have been a whole lot less interesting if it went into "combat encounter mode" as soon as we saw the fiend at the party and we just had all our weapons, which is more like how it would have went in a hack and slash dungeon crawl game.

[@EnEmerson]

So basically pull a Dark Souls?

[@CoyotesOwn]

Off teh top of my head "Unknow Armies" and "Feng Shui" have dedicate chase rules. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of others.

[@samuelbell2321]

Excuse me but my last DnD edventure i attacked a maid for stealing my gold. She got away and was goingto call the guard so i forced her to run into the field were i fell in a hole broke my ankle and then bled out on barbed wire.

[@josephteller9715]

samuel bell Barbed wire wasn't invented until 1867 your GM really needs to spend some time studying history... not appropriate to a medieval setting.

[@samuelbell2321]

I dont think hand cannons came at that time in history either. To be honset it was more his way of explaining what it was wich was spiky wire (without sounding like an ideot saying spiky wire).

[@Stealthwilde]

Joseph Teller D&D isn't set in the real world, and is only pseudo-medieval. Occasional anachronisms are perfectly acceptable.

[@josephteller9715]

Yes Stealthwilde we know that... BUT the game is more or less pitched as Medieval Fantasy. Plopping a big anachronism into it and using such as a character death item is generally considered bad form. Same with suddenly getting shot by a previously unknown to the game setting machine gun or bazooka... or getting run over by a tractor etc. A Good GM should have some idea of the technology of the time period that the game they are running is supposed to be operating in (Or have it spelled out that it exists before killing off a character with it).

[@josephteller9715]

Cannons and hand cannons start up somewhere between 1100 and 1250 AD depending on definition and location. Again it depends if the setting/GM introduced the concept of the technology before it was encountered fatally is the big deal here.

[@IIARROWS]

1:16 D&D 4th: skill challenges rules from DMG 1 & more detailed explained in DMG 2 (with a lot of example), that gives the exact example. Also, Skill Powers can help in a chase situation, like Drop & Roll (Acrobatics LV 10 at will). The Athletic Skill Powers have a lot of jumping abilities that can help in a situation like this.

[@Seth9809]

When players run, I have them roll to not trip. I am serious, every single time.

[@DeDraconis]

Very nice video. Been saying this for years myself, but tackled it from a different perspective by absolutely despising teleportation abilities. They are a serious game killer because they eliminate the chase all together; especially the ones that are coupled with being able to sense where your target is over vast differences. I've never seen a game, or media, that didn't either overuse it, or caused plot holes because "Hey, if you can.. why don't you?"

[@gabethehalfling5253]

"There is no RPG system that has a Chase system" me: pulled out Call of Cthulhu 7th edition and opens to page 130

[@NarlepoaxIII]

You know, I only just started thinking about this myself. I only even noticed it just now because I'm playing in a World of Darkness campaign, and WoD does have rules for chasing.

[@frostaegis8653]

In pathfinder a chase is basically: subject 1 takes a triple or x4 move action, those can only be done in a straight line and provoke an attack of opertunity, subject 2, unable to merely charge subject 1 must also make a similar move action, bennyhill music starts playing and the two eventually have to start making constitution checks and there are feats and such relating to movement. chasing someone down is relatively tedious so generally a GM merely says "you catch him" or "he get's away" outside of combat. You can't fault a villain for having a plan of escape and just going "ALAGAZAM!!!" and disappearing.

[@Earthenfist]

***** See, this is where you need to start taking terrain into consideration. Are you in a forest? The path might be covered in roots and stones that pose no problem to a walking party, but incur 'difficult terrain' checks on people who aren't familiar with the terrain. The baddy might have a bag of cheap caltrops they scatter across the only exit from the cave, meaning the chasers need to take their time getting through, and then it's a scramble through mountain trails and switchbacks, where they can easily see the baddy, but may have to take risks (like jumping down a cliffside instead of following the trail) to try and catch up. Is it a desert? Who has the better water supplies, and is more capable on the shifting sands? The trick is to have both the chasers and the chasee have to take the dice-roll checks for things like terrain, factoring in various bonuses and penalties that either might have due to upbringing or where they live or gear they have- then it becomes just as interesting and action-y as any combat, just using different rules and at longer distances.

[@yamitrap5951]

Hey Joonas, small world huh?

[@frostaegis8653]

I guess so ^^

[@triomegazero]

***** paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mastery/chases.html#chases

[@nicrap01]

In D&D 5E the DM can give you Dexterity (Athletics) checks while you are chasing someone to see if they slow down if they fail.

[@anonymous-dk3um]

4e did it well with skill challenges. So well that I ported a lot of it to 5e.

[@NibNibNib]

Subscribed. We actually have a ton of chasing house rules, we've kept it interesting.

[@arampantlamp]

My simple answer to this is get a better GM.

[@oz_jones]

Joshua Hurst This is my thought also whenever Lindy talks about his RPG experiences. Granted, he DOES have a point most of the time, but still.

[@Nixitur]

Joshua Hurst You're quite right. All of this could be improvised by a competent GM. Speed, streetwise, tracking, climbing, all these skills and more could be taken into account in a chase, depending on the situation. A great GM can estimate how hard or how complicated a challenge should be, so yes, it could all just be made up on the spot. However, a good roleplaying system is supposed to make the GM's job easier. Theoretically, a GM could make up the necessary rolls for _all_ situations on the spot, but there's rules for a lot of them, so that the GM doesn't _have_ to improvise so heavily and can instead rely on tried and tested systems. Not to mention that the systems should be in place for the benefit of the players as well. They can look in the rulebook and be like "Okay, if I want to be good at chasing, here's what I should invest in." Otherwise, you'd always have to talk about rule intricacies for every single system with your GM before you even start building your character. This gets even worse if you switch GMs and they have completely different houserules in place.

[@arampantlamp]

Actually I think he is right and his idea for the system would work well but my point still stands.

[@lifefindsaway7875]

A good chase scene, beyond the initial sprint stage, requires good DMING and preparation. A chase requires a city layout, various obstacles, and NPC traffic that makes sense. Pursuit over several miles could be very NPC heavy with talking to people "did a guy if this description pass through here?" And figuring out which witnesses were paid off to give false information. Covering great distances is usually glossed over in these games, so most players don't have an idea for how far apart the cities are, or how long it takes to get your mount

[@LimeyLassen]

or a better game :y

[@Bryntwulf]

In my current pathfinder game, we use an add-on just for this called the "chase deck" It's modelled similarly to s skills challenge, however, the cards, and therefore the challenges, and selected at random, resulting in a new chase every time.

[@NoForksGiven]

while not technically an RPG, assassins creed has a lot of chasing. if your target spots you, they will either run or call for help. if you fail to catch them, then you lose and you have to restart the mission. in fact a lot of stealth based games have this mechanic of having to chase opponents if they spot you. some are even scripted to be part of the story so you have no choose but to chase them. Hope you got good at parlour in assassins creed because at some point, you'll have to chase a bastard, most likely up buildings

[@METALGEARMATRIX]

Um... Not even close to an RPG. The video is about Tabletop RPGs like Dungeons and Dragons or Runequest

[@rock3793]

its not an rpg smh

[@trolleymouse]

In DnD 3.5, you could come up with a bunch ways to change the chase up. 1) Magic: cast Expeditious Retreat on yourself. Cast Grease ahead of the enemy, etc. 2) Tracking: Survival skill, if you have the track feat, can be used to follow someone's tracks, as you suggested. 3) Other skills: obstacles may take a skill check. Knocked down bookshelf? Jump check to clear it. He fled into the river? Swim check to follow him. He's leaping roof to roof? Balance check each round to not fall off, and jump check between buildings. He smashed the ladder? Climb check to get up the wall behind it. You want to do it quickly? Take a penalty. You want to do it properly? Take a bonus. You can do all kinds of things to slow the villain down, or slow the player down, and all of it's RAW. I get the feeling the only checking you did when playing 3.5 was "checking out" ...

[@DennisLjeti]

Lindybeige (To my knowledge, Pathfinder has an entire section on chases. They cover obstacles, how far ahead one party starts and how it is to be run. Its not the greatest in detail but, hey, its enough.) While in some roleplay core books there is no actual chapter dedicated to a system to govern how chasing works, I think by applying the skills given (Acrobats, athletics, DEX, whatever) a DM and his players can work on a chasing "system" in their own way. For example, beating someone to the door with a single die roll can fall under dex, how quick you were to react, athletics, how quickly you move, or acrobatics, doing some crazy DnD somersault to the door. Climb for the vertical scaling, swimming if that ever comes into play, riding if the chase is on horseback. There are a lot of skills that a group can toy with to work on the chase even if it isnt explicitly described in the rule book. The 30ft move speed is, to my knowledge, an in combat only issue, so as a DM, I would only set that 30ft speed limit in a fight, say when they caught the guy and the chased draws his blade. (This is because combat is divided into rounds, which last 6 seconds, so the idea isnt that you move, hit, then wait for the next guy to move, then hit. Rather its a constant stream of action, and within one six second period a player can run 30 ft and strike someone. Outside of combat, this round system wouldnt apply, to me at least.) For pursuit, there is a tracking skill, and rations and camps are needed by me so that my players dont starve or suffer the elements. Again this is no solid rule in any book and is often optional, but the game provides enough information and the DM can provide enough description to accurately convey how far/close one is to their target and how the party fairs out in the wild. While I agree it would be interesting to see this formalized more often, and it would be a damn good fresh breath to see roleplaying games focus less on combat in the sense of the large melee, there are thankfully many ways to achieve the chase mechanics you desire, so im a bit more polarized on this one than on your fumbling videos. But no matter the topic, a great video as always Lindybeige! Keep it up!

[@alanmonaghan3657]

my friends and i played a house rules version of the warhammer 40k role play, we ended up finding a drug shipment and we decided to take it to the drug barron it was meant to goto, it ended in a massive shootout and escape down a fire escape, but it being 40k it was huge, when we got to the bottom we hijacked a van and tried to leg it, our DM was too on the ball that night, we threw together chase rules and had the most action packed couple of hours with people falling off and having to go into the next room whilst they waited for the dm to resolve what happened to their character etc, it was amazing, i personally ended up carrying an unconscious teammate through a crowded shopping area trying not to draw the attention of cops and other drug gang members, it is something i agree with you on, that RPG's need serious consideration to chases and the like,

[@LordBaktor]

Great! I am always trying to incorporate action movie elements into my fights. Jumping from cart to cart in a mine, swinging on ropes over a chasm, climbing up or jumping down stuff, all sorts of hazards that give any particular fight some flavor other than "we entered a room and fought some monsters". These chasing rules give me some ideas.

[@Azkamoski]

Thanks, Lindy, these videos really help me with my rollplay game I'm making.

[@Magnetohydrodynamics]

New World of Darkness actually has a system for foot-chases: the chaser has to roll better than the chasee on any single roll to catch up, while the chasee has to get some number of successful rolls to get away; initial conditions are specified by character stats.

[@GeoffSayre]

The 5th Edition D&D books have some rules for this, which acknowledge many of the basic points in the video. They can be found on pages 252-255. Just read through them and they make a great starting point for any GM to expand upon. Even using them as written would be entertaining and memorable for some groups.

[@GeoffSayre]

Pages 252-255 of the Dungeon Masters Guide that is.

[@richardwigman4633]

The Cypher System as seen in Numenera and The Strange have some loose rules for chasing which are simple yet can be added to as need be. As you said, chases can be variable from a few steps to beat somebody to a window, or days of pursuit to track down a fleeing foe. It's a nice system that focus's on storytelling rather than specific rules for doing everything.

[@The1wsx10]

with a chase sequence, you could have a simple ruler with 1 (or 2 for immersion) figure on it to mesure the distance between the people. if they get to the far end of the ruler, they escape and you can choose to persue. if they lose ground and get to your end of the ruler, you have cought them and initiative begins - if they give up on running away and dont fumble when you catch them, they have a chance to roll higher initiative

[@little_isalina]

i am currently writing a roleplaying game that involves athletics skill checks for all types of movement including running on flat surfaces, the check result each round determines how far you can go per second (a round is a 3 second increment) and is influenced by the condition of the surface you are running on. You also use acrobatics in order to clear obstacles without being slowed down, or to mitigate how much an obstacle slows you down. It's just one or two pages of rules but but it makes chasing a lot more interesting.

[@3faltigeralexandro]

Savage Worlds has rules for sprinting (die roll to add to your speed), linear chases and overland travel speed (including systems for things like Tracking, asking people "Have you seen this guy", exhaustion and other things which might factor into the area of "pursuit"). It also has rules for "dogfights", which are a bit like chases (except you are not trying to leave the area) and a bit like sprinting (except you are constantly adjusting your relative distance to the other combatants). SW also has very good rules for horses and vehicles in combat, which tie into all of these systems.

[@TheSebuka]

Thanks a lot! I am wirting some (new) rules and conecepts for my RPG and the points you made in this video are helping me a lot!

[@SubjugatedAuthority]

As far as D&D goes you already have quite a few tools for any of this. For the door bit, you have contested athletics/acrobatics rolls. His dex/str vs your dex/str. I make these an option in any game I am GMing, but I don't hand-hold my players and tell them "hey you should slam that door on him". They need to have the initiative to ask "Can I slam the door?" For the long distance, you have tracking abilities like Nature, Investigation, Survival, and things like that. Though I like those annotations in your outro. I think I'll use them C:

[@bangboom123]

Chases were actually what inspired me about Numenera and its Cypher System, specifically GM intrusions. You can 'intrude' to bring in a new complication at any moment, rewarding the player with XP if they accept. That's exactly how you'd simulate the frantic scenes of pulp action. Gaining on your villain? Intrusion! Shingles on the roof give way.Roll Speed or Might (two of the three stats in the game) to see if you can keep your footing or leap to the next rooftop applying any skills you have (which are freeform) to apply. You're losing the villain? Your mount stumbles as a bolt suddenly lances its leg, roll Intellect to keep control of it. Etc.

[@Phalanx167]

I made a chasing system for my own roleplay game based on x-wing and burning wheel where you secretly chose your moves ahead of time and they each are revealed simultaneously and result in different sets of interactions based on which ones were chosen. For example if the chaser charges forward to try and gain extra ground and the chased jukes as their action the chaser will have a greater disadvantage on their roll-off to see if how much ground is gained or lost thanks to their added momentum in what is now the wrong direction. Add a timer for making decisions and this makes for some really tense and exciting scenes where players have to consider their environment, the capabilities an over their foes, and the proclivities of their foes to plan on the fly.

[@WaruiTanuki]

This is an old video, but it's new to me, since I just discovered this channel. I think the level of detail in RPG rules is directly proportional to how likely players are to complain about the results. Combat is the number one place I've seen people try to dispute results, so being able to turn to a page in the rule book and say, "nope, it says right here: this is how it works," can, in theory, settle an argument and get the game back on track. I think every system I've ever played has had some way of resolving chases in the skill or attribute systems. Things like "athletics" skills to see if you can avoid the produce cart the target knocked over into your way, or a perception check to spot them as they try to blend in with the crowd after turning a corner. Tracking, plus having the DM/GM actually follow the existing encumbrance and supply rules for long chases across wilderness. I've seen the example of stopping someone running for a door handled with a simple attribute check to see if the PC reacted in time, and I've seen the same type of thing resolved just using the combat system, even though no one was actually fighting. I think the problem isn't that games don't have detailed enough rules for chases, it's that, if you want that type of scenario, but the rest of the group (or just whoever's running the game) doesn't, the rules that exist won't get used anyway.

[@UntoldRelic]

We utilize skill checks for chase scenes. Our quarry runs down the street. An athletics skill check to see if you can keep up. He turns left at a corner. Wisdom skill check to see if he gets lost in the crowd. That kind of thing. I think it is in D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder. It makes for a great interactive storytelling mechanic.

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

Shadowrun has some ok rules There's sprinting where you can get more than your base movement. There's interrupts where you can try to stop people doing something, like running away. There's chase rules for vehicles where you try to get closer or move away as well as other actions. There's stealth and perception for short hunts, and tracking and survival for long pursuits.

[@dragonboyjgh]

>Sprinting - Roll initiative to determine who moves first. On your turn, move your run speed towards the door. If you reach the door before he does, you win. If he reaches the door before you, he wins. Done. Its the exact same rules for combat but with less stabbing. Typically settled just with the initiative roll, but in the event that one or more of the participants are very far off so that it takes multiple turns, or that one or more participants are considerably slower than another, there can be cases where even the one to spring into action first will lose the race. >Pursuit - Forced March rules for how well you can keep up and how long. Survival checks for the tracking aspect. >Chase sequence - 4e would have made it a skill challenge encounter. I even have an official adventure with a chase sequence in it, Temple of the Weeping Goddess (interesting in that its an adventure made for lvl 0 characters); the party must achieve six successes at shaking off their pursuers before accumulating three minor failures, able to forgo successes to abate failures. Succeeding the encounter means they've lost your trail, failing ends with them catching you. For PC's pursuing NPC, I'd imagine it would more or less be the same but vice versa, with the skill challenges being more towards keeping up, avoiding obstacles, and keeping them in sight or at least tracked. 5e doesn't explicitly state those rules, oddly enough, but there's no reason they couldn't be carried over. For something other than DnD, Burning Wheel's Linked Tests are another way of doing skill challenge like things, only instead of accumulating successes or losses, it works on successful checks adding a bonus and failed checks enacting a penalty to the final check which represents ones overall success or failure. Did the fruit stall he threw in your way trip you up? Its gonna be a lot harder to catch up to him in those last few seconds right before he grabs the helicopter rope ladder and flies away. Did you successfully disregard his attempts to throw you off his trail and instead headed for where you deduced his destination was? Gonna be a heck of a lot easier to cut him off at the pass.

[@mcalsip]

The West End Games version of Star Wars RPG had a really good system for chases and a pretty good one for doing large scale battles too.

[@matthiaskleindienst9146]

A nice video, you got a good point there. It's always bugged me that many (esp. Anglo-American systems) are so fight-focused. Maybe you'd like the German THE DARK EYE - the fifth edition will be released in English this year, by ULISSES. First it has one of the most lifelike, plausible and detailed and sophisticated worlds; it's got rules for all aspects of playing - fighting is just a fifth or sixth of the rules and the new edition is really good (the fourth one started out great but got too cramped and crowded over the years - maybe fourth edition are cursed). And you'd like the initiative system maybe a little more, because although you still got the initiative order (which is not ONLY determined by DEX) but you've got a reaction (Parry or Dodge) to every action directed against you. Anyway: love your channel! Carry on!

[@TheZoldor]

While I have to disagree on the edition debate (I do prefer the 4.1 rules - by far), it is true that "Das Schwarze Auge" has intricate rules for chases ans pursuits. More so in the 4th edition then in the 5th ("Ausdauer" - endurance points for getting tired in fights/chases) Non the less, the 4th edition rules are quite extensive, when using all the optional and expert rules. This on the other hand provides the depth ans simulatory aspects I do enjoy about DSA (or TDE in english).

[@stefanstankovic4781]

Our DM had the same idea in Pathfinder, having us to overcome obstacles (stairs, falling beams, furniture and other party members) to get out of sticky situations. It's really easy to work in the dynamic combat (with jumping, hanging from a ceiling, wrangling monsters and either retreating from a fight or chasing a fleeing opponent) if you're being consistent and have a simple set of pre-arranged rules which use the existing skills and abilities.

[@DeoMachina]

I had a great chase scene in a DnD game once, it had it all! Jumping over fruit crates, our halfling target pretending to be a child so we run past him, splitting up to take two entrances at the same time etc.. Clever and synchronised useage of stunning/pushing/knocking prone attacks can also keep a boss busy long enough for your team to surround him, there's an immense satisfaction when you keep the villain on the board longer than he was supposed to be around for.

[@Fenlander216]

This is why I like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying Game so much. Each character has a Movement stat that is determined by the race of the creature and a dice roll. Then during chase scenes or parts of the game where a character needs to run they check their Movement stat and add a dice roll to it for a total. The GM then rolls on the same stat. This allows for a dynamic system of gaining and loosing in a chase. You could add in a factor of willpower and toughness also to be used a endurance to see how far a character can actually run before becoming winded. Never forget the night we was all chased down a mountain by a warband of Skaven. The players used their shields as sledges to help them get away in the end.

[@jameshaller6724]

Interesting that chases should be so prevalent in an RPG. It makes perfect sense and I (as a Gamemaster) wonder why I haven't been using them more :) It's also worth noting that in D&D 5e (I'm not familiar with other systems), these rules do actually exist... Sprint: Lindy mentioned a yes/no result. This is called a "contested roll" (Player's Handbook pg. 174). It would look something like this... DM: "You and you, roll athletics. Whoever rolls highest gets there first." Pursuit: If this is meant to be a long, drawn-out chase across the land, I would recommend looking at Travel Pace (Player's Handbook pg. 181), specifically "Forced March" used in conjunction with a "Fast" travel pace (30 miles/day). The tracking rules (Dungeon Master's Guide pg. 243) may also be helpful for a Pursuit. Additionally, it is possible to move faster than is described (i.e. run longer during a day), however this imposes "exhaustion" as described in the "Forced March" section (exhaustion table in Player's Handbook pg. 291). Chase: Dungeon Master's Guide pg. 252-255 is all about action-scene-style chases and is literally titled "Chases".

[@drahydra]

Using D&D 3.5, I almost completely disregard the initiative system. Instead, I use it for reaction-type moments, such as the "sprint" that you described. For tracking, it's a contest of die rolls and checks, such as how well the prey clears his tracks, and how well the hunter can notice the mistakes. And as far as chase sequences go, I force constitution/fortitude saves, and the results determine the effective speed for each participant for one round. These contests can turn into either a dexterity/reflex save for obstacle creation/evasion, or intelligence/will saves whenever the pursuer loses sight of the one he is after. Admittedly, even though I DM 3.5, I frequently toss the vanilla rules out of the window in favor of reason. The base rules are far too restricting.

[@williamjeffery9653]

I had a GM once create a chase scene scenario (even played music for it) and he basically set it up in such a way where there where multiple routes you could go each round, and each route had some kind of skill challenge to pass to see whether you move on or stumble. That was a simple, but effective, way to do a chase scene.

[@md20gm]

Pathfinder has an excellent chase mechanic. Also, there are a lot of 3.5 feats, spells, and class abilities that work to help in chases. Force March, endurance checks, uneven terrain, Acrobatics/Jump/Balance checks etc.

[@chubbyninja842]

I wrote some of that into the home-brew rules I made for my friends and I to play with. One of the problems with most combat systems is that it's always a fight to the death, and that's really not how it works in reality. Sometimes you get knocked out, or just hurt really bad and can't fight, but other than maybe having a broken limb ... you're still perfectly healthy and at no risk of death. I tried to make it as free form as possible so players can think as far outside of the box as possible. There have been many times that I'd planned a combat encounter, but the players used their heads and found a way to "win" without having to fight at all.

[@TF8ase]

Excellent point. I'd like to see this incorporated. I think RP games have been inundated with combat focus for so long, we're seeing a change of direction. That said this would have a good effect without obsessing over the roleplaying aspect which makes it quite universal and quite simple.

[@fmhummel]

I remember one of the old versions of The Dark Eye had strangely detailed skills for every characters. Singing, performing, dancing and playing an instrument were all seperate skills as far as I remember.

[@infinitesheldon5710]

My first DM integrated a really great chase sequence in our first game. Our thief failed to snag the coin purse off of a really wealthy person, and the city's guards started hounding him down. We spent a good hour or so engrossed in the chase scene as the characters ducked through alleys, leapt through windows, weaved between pedestrians, ect. It was awesome.

[@stocktonjoans]

again, GURPS has "constest" rolls where chaeacters are given a set number to achieve and take it in turns to roll a die, wirh relivant skill modifiers, and if the casher reaches the target number first, they catch their victime, but id the rescapee get the the target first, they manage to get far enough ahead (or some convenient accident) allowes then to loose their persuer

[@METALGEARMATRIX]

Pathfinder actually just released a book called Ultimate Intrigue that lists rules for long-distance pursuits over days or even weeks. Still no rules for other types of chases, however.

[@bg6b7bft]

+WarMachineBrony They've introduced chases around 2008. Ultimate Intrigue just added to what they already had.

[@feartheghus]

Linda Rory starts talking about chasing in rpgs like dnd and I just start picturing a fighter chasing a warlock through city streets with mission impossible music playing.

[@abelsampaio389]

5e made possible interesting options for chasing. There's the skill contest, so you could actually ignore speed and use random complications on the chase based on terrain or other things around, and contest acrobatics or maybe athletics checks to see who comes off "winning" the chase. The problem actually is to make players run from combats. As you say, they're used to fight every challenge the DM puts in their way.

[@violacrb]

For those playing systems like D&D, I have played several campaigns in which speed was not necessarily fixed. A character may have a slight advantage (+5 feet every turn or even every other turn). Movement around turns was actually reduced by 5 or 10 feet to account for deceleration around the corner. Coupled with balance and endurance checks, this allowed some short pursuits.

[@EEYore-py1bf]

Pathfinder has a chapter on chasing, with so many rules for exactly what terrain you're in, be it a forest, a jungle, a desert, a city, anything.

[@ragnarrahl]

Sprinting: Roll for initiative. Pursuit: Difficult terrain, encumbrance (food supplies), movement speed, mounts... Chase sequence: Jump checks, climb checks, strength checks to make obstacles, acrobatics checks.... D&D has all of these rules. Although beyond a certain level whether the villain/hero gets away is often determined by spells instead. I do remember a fight in 3.5 that went south, became a chase sequence, and eventually my Paladin found it necessary to sacrifice himself so that the rest could get away. You don't see them too often admittedly, but that's just a matter of player/GM preference.

[@JoeAuerbach]

I know you're not into D&D, especially 4th edition, but it introduced some great skill check rules that can be implemented in 5th edition as well. A chase scene (say, through busy city streets) might use athletics, acrobatics, and stealth skills with you and the other guy looking for a set number of successes to catch up or get away clean. I do this a lot.

[@benjamindrexler9635]

For D&D, look in the Dungeon Master's guides. Anything before 3rd edition will likely put it in extra source material rather than the main rules, but any comprehensive D&D has rules and ideas for chases. Several skills become relevant as soon as you are not running entirely on a relatively flat, unobstructed surface (I remember another video where you ridiculed the idea that features may not be present). As for other games, it depends. But there are always established rules for sprinting, including how much faster you can go and how long you can sprint. Also, there are a variety of rules around that encourage DMs to design chase scenes with various aspects, including roof-tops, different modes of transportation, the effect of crowds, and all manner of interesting things you can do.