Roll-Forming Metal - Copper tube plates, boiler heads, etc! Model Boiler Build, Part 4

[@Blondihacks]

Hey everyone! The themes in the comments this time are: 1) Why no pickle? Because it isn’t necessary. It serves no purpose between annealings, and cleaning the plates up at the end took less time than a 10 min pickle would, with no rinsing and drying required. I use pickling when needed, but it isn’t here. 2) “Grrrr this is spinning, not roll forming!” Take a deep breath and remember that the world is a big place with lots of people who have different names for things than you do. Nomenclature is less rigorously standardized in this world than you might think. Nobody’s experience is universal, so keep an open mind. 3) “Why not put the torch right on the lathe?” It takes an immense amount of heat to get the copper to annealing temperature. The hearth is critical to the efficiency of this. Doing it in open air, with the mandrel and chuck there as giant heat sinks would not work unless you had a torch so big that you couldn’t survive standing next to it.

[@mattsadventureswithart5764]

My immediate thought was it looked like spinning, and this is the first time I've seen the process called roll-forming, but I love the fact that this beautiful mongrel of a language we share with the world is living and evolving and often has many names because of the sharing and evolution.

[@tomt9543]

One of the side benefits of my nearly two year obsession with home machine shop YT videos is the names for tools that denizens of different countries use! One of my favorites is the UK and Aussie term “Spanner”. For all of my 61 years in the states, they’ve been either open end wrenches or adjustable wrenches, but it’s all the same “piece of kit” (thanks again UK!). Now I’ve got to go sort through my scraps, excuse me, “bits & bobs”! Ha! Too many folks overthink this stuff!

[@35manning]

@@tomt9543 an Aussie here. Gotta love a good spanner, unless it's been thrown in the works. But we also have wrenches. Such as a plumbers wrench. We also have sockets, or more formally socket drivers (which I believe Yanks call ratchets).

[@tomt9543]

@@35manning Or as doubleboost says “Bastad ratchet!” Ha! At the end of the day, we’re all in this together, right? It’s all about the journey!

[@robertwalker7457]

Just like dividers or straight calipers, they still have a couple of pointy bits and measure and scribe things. Great work on the roll forming.

[@alans1816]

As one of the maligned workers in cellulose in a lignin matrix, I find myself fascinated and educated by your approach. Thanks.

[@kaboom-zf2bl]

hers wont work without yours ... charcoal works as well to make steam ;)

[@iwasinnamuknow]

I always have to watch a new Blondihacks video, as is tradition :)

[@jlucasound]

Well done, uh, internet!! ;-)

[@Hossimo]

This worked out much better then that Roll Forming that This Old Tony did a while back :)

[@SethKotta]

Calling the poor guy out, I see.

[@DavidLindes]

@@mathewritchie sounds likely. That’s something the best sorts would do. :)

[@anderswegge6828]

Thank you for saving me the hassle of making the same comment :)

[@PatrickPoet]

Isn't THAT the truth!

[@PatrickPoet]

@@vaderdudenator1 yeah. Exactery

[@ron827]

Not only are your machinist skills top shelf but also are your editing and voice over skills. I wish more Tubers would do the same.

[@spiritburners]

brilliant video and no awful music in the background which is always too loud.

[@josefkrakel9136]

Those long aluminum chips can be used as chaff to confuse radars or dropped on power distribution wires to short out the power grid. Just a thought for Quinn's next bombing raid ... over chattertown.

[@DavidKutzler]

I heard that if you put them under your hubcaps, you'll be invisible to police radar!

[@philipmackin1025]

@@DavidKutzler Negatory Ghost Rider

[@1988dgs]

Throw them out the window when you speed past a speed camera 😉😂

[@zenongarnek7020]

Place them long chips in your marital bed. You partner will be amazed! :-)

[@johnmcclain3887]

Don't let anyone mess with your bandsaw, mine came to me in the eighties, and still runs fine, even "rebuilt several times, new bearings, new blade guides" as age demands. I built my engine a decade ago, but never built a boiler, I believe I will build one, just because yours works so well, thanks for sharing!

[@joeleagles5491]

You can replace the fuse socket in those mini lathes with a fuse breaker of the same specs. So when you blow it, it's just a button click and you're back to work!

[@ardemus]

Obviously, blowing the fuse is a 1 time thing... 2 time thing... 3 time thing... won't happen again. No reason to spend the money on a breaker for something that only happens if I screw up. I won't keep screwing up.

[@robertoswalt319]

I did that on my bench top mill. It provides me with confidence that I won't be dead in the water if I blow a fuse in the middle if the night.

[@danielabbey7726]

Yes, that's a great idea!

[@richardspees841]

The one thing with breakers, is they are thermo-magnetic, so they will trip due to overload and also trip due to heat build up. If it trips and you reset it and start machining again, the second trip will be at a lower amperage draw than the first. The third less than the second, etc. At some point, you end up having to let it cool down.

[@jlucasound]

@@ardemus It is not a "screw up". It is pushing your machine tool to its limit. A tripping breaker sets the safe limit just as well as a fuse. You just don't need to replace the breaker. Think about it. Now, if you replace the fuse with a .22 bullet, well.....That would be screwing up. Sickle has it right. (I capped the "S", sickle, because I was starting the sentence with "sickle". Great idea. I concur.) :-)

[@danielattencio579]

I am not a machinist but I find watching it very satisfying. I am a woodworker and I always hear that the incremental measurement differences are like night and day. I watch several machinists on youtube and I am constantly hearing, "this dimension is not critical" or "this dimension does not matter". I think I'm becoming disillusioned. Is it possible to get to Mars with woodworking dimensions? Dan

[@MrCrispinEnterprises]

Well done, very nice job. To answer your question I'd suggest that the actual forming is about equal in time to hammering however there is probably a bit more time invested in the tooling you require for the method you have shown. Its a nice way to do it though judging by your results.

[@Blondihacks]

Thank you! Love your channel. 😁

[@MrCrispinEnterprises]

@@Blondihacks Thanks, If only I could manage to post as regularly as you do!

[@RobertLiesenfeld]

Stunning, just stunning! Those plates are beautiful. Really enjoying this boiler build series.

[@georgestolz4705]

Hi Quinn. You machine work is really great. Your solutions to challenges are always interesting. As you mention, not every solution will work for everyone. Your humor is really awesome. Best regards.

[@gregbeeman2077]

Your articulation and diction made this video a great listen, also shows you know what your are talking about. You are the Grace Slick of metal working instructionals.

[@Mucidamascusblades]

When you think Quinn has reached the max level of awesomeness, she comes out with a more awesome video. Thanks for sharing your journeys!!

[@yeeeehaaawbuddy]

I literally was scanning the comments to find out if Quinn is male or female. Thanks!

[@magicponyrides]

@@yeeeehaaawbuddy Quinn is male, but she is trans, I believe.

[@bgdavenport]

Geez, you're good! Your voiceover instructional content is outstanding!

[@aaronmott208]

Oh my goodness that final assembly made me unreasonably happy, it is so nice!!!! This is definitely one of my favorite videos of yours!

[@crashlandingcity]

THANK YOU for mentioning that annealing copper can be done with either quench or air cooling. Have had to step in to way too many arguments over this.

[@omskariyazmaraikayer913]

Quintessential knowlege for the machinist. Great video.!!!

[@tomsmith3045]

Really nice work! Thank you for demoing this technique. I've seen it done before, but your step by step breakdown makes this seem much more possible for a newbie to try. Really appreciate your selective use of different levels of precision, depending on the requirement of the feature.

[@siggitiggi]

How have I not seen your videos before, your banter is fantastic (and so is the rest of the content)!

[@jjbode1]

I don't want to know the make/model but your camera is good enough for a video displayed on a 21" monitor. I'm a woodworker and metalworker wishI'dbe who can't afford it but get a lot of vicarious enjoyment from you. Thanks for your efforts.

[@jeffeck1701]

I have no idea what you are making, but I enjoyed watching you make things! I find on my lathes I get better results with larger carbide tool holders, but they are larger lathes. My Rockwell 14x40 is a dream to run, if you can get your hands on a 5hp lathe you will find that mandrel can be done in minutes. You impress me with your detailed work and quality. You make beautiful things!

[@3MTA3-]

I have to say this is easily one of my most favourite channels! You produce fantastic videos and instruction!

[@niceride]

Top marks for safety and demonstrating safety, no messing about here.

[@sonovoxx]

Brilliant video. Such a lesson in machining planning and preparation. Unfolded like a game of chess. I'll say it again, this is one of the top education channels on KZbin. And yes, the yahtsee caused much happiness to break out here.

[@lourias]

Thank you for letting me know about annealing during the process. That will sure save me on my next project! The stretching of material also was great info. I did not know it would pull that much!

[@BRUJALUCAS]

It is a real pleasure to watch your videos. Thanks

[@MarkFunderburk]

You are very good at explaining what you are doing and why in a consise way.

[@willemkossen]

Very nice video. I saw this roll forming before. Its how bells for brass instruments are made. (Trumpets etc).

[@AlRoderick]

I remember seeing that and I suppose that the brass alloy that they use for that purpose is chosen specifically because it doesn't work harden like pure copper does, because I think I saw them do it all in one operation with no reheating. Maybe a high lead content in the alloy? If so I hope they use a different formulation for the mouthpiece.

[@BM-jy6cb]

A good example of setup and planning/prep being 80% of machining. Love the videos.

[@wi11y1960]

Loving the zen moments of your voice and machining

[@johnyoungquist6540]

Your most elegant part and process yet. You made it look easy. I know it is not. Years ago I made a spinning tool for a CNC lathe. It was a bearing mounted steel wheel about 4 in diameter and 1/2 inch thick with full rounded corners. Hardened and polished it for good part surface finish. Had to spin a bunch of 6 inch aluminum discs much like your part but not quite a 90 degree bend. Tool required several gradual forming passes but no annealing. Made some scrap and noise at first. Ultimately used to stabilize a cone behind a jet at Mach .8.

[@epilotdk]

I've hammer formed end caps and the time it took is comparable to this method. However my buck and support plate were just clamped in a vice so it was a bit quicker to get the copper out for annealing. Your method gives a superior finish.

[@kaboom-zf2bl]

having seen professional roll formed pots and pans made ... I wonder what the proper tools and practice would allow ... faster speed ... better work more precision ...

[@billymonkey111]

How have I never seen this channel? THis is excellent!

[@petem6291]

Quinn you do such nice work ( and you have the patience of a saint )

[@ddistrbd1]

Glad to see in the last video of this series, you incorporated picking.

[@Blondihacks]

I always pickle when silver soldering. It isn’t necessary when forming.

[@paulcutty8048]

Hi Quinn. I have been aggravated by this fuse problem on my Mini-lathe for , I think 20 years. Then I decided I had supported the fuse manufacturer long enough and I installed a circuit breaker instead of the fuse. End of problem. You just need to pick the correct type and rate for your circumstances.

[@Mark_How]

After a long day of hobby machining, I find myself unwinding by watching... more machining? No complaints though 😂

[@SeanHodgins]

Those turned out great! Pun intended.

[@ollysworkshop]

I'm struggling to FORM an opinion.....😋

[@oldhick9047]

You are indeed "The Mighty Quinn" ! Nicely done.

[@mike94560]

First time I found your videos. I learned a thing or two. So cool. I had to subscribe right away.

[@tomt9543]

The most interesting video I’ve seen in a long time! Beautiful work! Thanks for tripling the amount of work involved by taking us along! Looking forward to the next one!

[@ronaldroberts7221]

If you ever need to machine some copper in the future, my research turned up C14500 alloy as specifically designed to make copper as easy to machine as possible, while still retaining over 90% of the original electrical conductivity. Love the channel, I am learning a lot here.

[@Blondihacks]

The free machining coppers are super expensive though, even for copper

[@pulppeeler]

Liked and subscribed! Ran into this by accident. I watched a video where this old Tony made some attempts at roll forming. You do AMAZING work along with excellent narration and humor. Keep up the great work!!

[@Andrew_Fernie]

Looks like someone knows exactly what they are doing 👍 The threaded studs idea was a charm.

[@TheFreshmanWIT]

Kinda wish you did your center-finding of the device with your coaxial indicator, but only because they are super cool :D This is a fun project, it makes me want to try roll forming!

[@randynovick7972]

I'm always fascinated by machining copper. It seems so buttery and also sticky, and yet after being all cleaned up it looks really cool. Thanks!

[@Lambman001]

I really enjoyed watching your video. You explain what you are doing and that makes it very interesting. Thanx

[@brucewilliams6292]

You did a great job on the boiler. One of the few videos I have seen on roll forming.

[@DavidHerscher]

Wow, this was amazing. How much problem solving and creative thinking can you fit into a 25 min video? Ask Quinn, she's setting records on the reg... As usual, i learned more in this single video than my brain is capable of processing so now i need to take a nap.

[@GoCreatehms]

Very nice job! When I did my Lion Tube Plates I'd reckon 20 to 30 minutes each to hammer form depending upon how many anneals, it goes pretty quick once you get some practice and confidence. Less time making a former. But who's counting, it's a hobby, you try things out, you learn and you enjoy it.

[@memomakes9453]

Really great work. Inspiring how you can make such a variety of projects on hobby machinery such as this. And the mix of comedic commeNtary is a great addition to the content.

[@Preso58]

Hi Quinn, You can remove the oxide from copper using a mixture of salt and vinegar. Just soak the blackened copper and the oxide will scrub off easily with a Scotchbrite pad. Sulphuric acid is better but the salt/vinegar is safer. Regards, Preso.

[@epilotdk]

I use citric acid.

[@KC9UDX]

I started making a longer guide plate for the bandsaw that I have like that. I have a video of that somewhere. Sadly that's one of those things I just don't have time to finish.

[@KC9UDX]

Found it kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGmbkGd6mZqMprM But Google will probably delete this comment anyway.

[@jamesmihalcik1310]

Hammer forming is faster, Although your fixture allowed multiple operations afterwards and all with greater precision. So, your way is more betterer! :) This was an awesome video, and somewhat mesmerizing. Thankyou!

[@PQRXYZ433]

All this marking out in a copper-like material is giving me real Clickspring vibes.

[@BlackdogADV]

I’m a metal fabricator not a machinist. I love your videos, keep it up.

[@richardhead8264]

_Anything sheet metal with compound curvature is an absolute delight!_ 😃

[@VoidedWarranty]

I always feel this disappointment when the video ends, I want more!

[@VoidedWarranty]

I think they call this addiction

[@bassybossy]

@@VoidedWarranty and the comment section is therapy :)

[@jimbos3421]

You are an excellent teacher!

[@mikeheath6516]

Quinn thanks, that was a Masterclass.

[@daveys]

Nice trick with that radiused cutter to turn the edge. Really nice finish.

[@kristinamckeown5106]

Wow that is looking great! Thanks for the tip on leveling the corner rounding em in the lathe. Almost always learn something new here!

[@joecnc3341]

Great video Quinn. I enjoy your sense of humor and showing the bloopers, too. We all make 'em - or you're not making much, eh?

[@mariellecb1]

Man what a tidy job you made of that! Just gorgeous! Thanks for sharing this.

[@Deathsneeze]

I just found your channel, and so far I'm loving every single video of yours I've watched and I've learned quite a bit! As a thank you, one trick I have learned when working with copper is that you can generally use a spring loaded punch a few times to get a part fixtured for brazing. Also, I haven't seen any video of you actually brazing so forgive me if I'm off on this one, but I would strongly recommend picking up an oxy-acetylene torch for doing silver solder brazing, it will greatly reduce the amount of time needed to heat parts and also reduce the total amount of heat you put into a part. It also works out to be a lot cheaper to use O/A or even air/acetylene than a mapp gas torch, mapp starts getting expensive fast with how long you need to run the torch compared to acetylene

[@leebarnhart831]

You taught this old dog a few tricks about copper forming and that I’ve been told is a very difficult task for anyone to achieve.

[@dougdays8095]

That facing was perfection!!

[@johnathonmullis4234]

Great job. I really liked your roll forming. I learned a lot about copper that I didn’t know. Really cool stuff thanks Quinn

[@bobuk5722]

Hi Quinn. Thanks for this. I had no idea so much annealing would be needed but the end result looks very good and something to be proud of. BobUK.

[@lisag2771]

Your getting a beautiful finish with that insert.

[@excitedbox5705]

If you come in from the front, you can make things round without pre-cutting. Like a parting cut through the front of the sheet. That only works as long as you need to go all the way through or can use a parting tool to cut it off.

[@Blondihacks]

I did a whole video on trepanning, in fact. I would never attempt it on copper, though

[@wezm]

“when I want to generate negative comm… ahh engagement“ 😂

[@michaelskinner896]

Wow, very impressive! Enjoyed watching and listening to your commentary.

[@scott98390]

I've just found your channel and whoa - this is really amazing!

[@GaryT1952]

Beautifully done Quinn!

[@campingstoveman]

Yet again youve taught an old dog new tricks :-), well done, my usual method is metal spinning using a a form tool and the tail stock.

[@bbrockert]

I've used spun tanks a lot in liquid rockets, in aluminum and stainless. Really interesting to see it done at the home shop scale! I've wondered about doing it to make copper liners for small rocket engines and this increases my confidence that it could actually work without being too big of a hassle.

[@hblandim720]

Congratulations from Brazil. PARABÉNS!!! GREAT WORK!!! 👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@OriginalHuchang]

Damn, you never fail to impress the crap out of me.

[@chiparooo]

Very nice work! Very satisfying looking parts. Well done.

[@gregc2467]

If Kurtis,from CEE calls it a snap gauge,I think you have kudos,he is the best machinist I have seen.

[@jimsvideos7201]

Those mandrel plates would make nice conversation pieces, given a quick shine on some scotchbrite. I admire your patience; we saw what I assume is two solid weekends in half an hour or less.

[@Mengmoshu]

I agree, except the shining them up. I think they're at their most interesting with all the marks they picked up during the process.

[@jlucasound]

I think I recall Adam using that technique. Works great! Works a treat (?). Who even says that? Must be the English. Wait, I'M ENGLISH!! (Twilight Zone Theme). :-0 You are awesome, Quinn!!

[@davidtaylor6124]

Don't know about faster, but certainly better! That was an amazing result and as you say the mandrel kept on giving through subsequent operations so even better. A crummy lump of wood doesn't do that for you.

[@christtophek9487]

incroyable et génial ! congratulations ! the final result is so great ! keep going and machining.

[@georgedubois76]

your getting a great finish! nice work!

[@aikismith]

When Annealing, there is is a brief magical window during quenching when copper will throw off the majority of the fire scale, making cleanup much quicker. The trick is letting it cool for a few seconds after removing the heat, but just a few seconds. It's an oddly satisfying yahtzee moment when you get it just right. Gets harder to do as the pieces become thicker as it seems to be a mechanical shudder that breaks of the scale and when a larger surface as it becomes more difficult to have the whole piece at the right temperature. And yes, as other mentioned, pickling (acid bath) is more satisfying way to clean the copper than the mini spinning banshee of death aka a dremel. It also provides a moment for coffee. :)

[@woodwindfixer]

With silver solder, .002” clearance is overkill. Soft solder (also silver bearing solder) needs that clearance, but true silver solder/brazing does not. If it was an alignment concern, great, but you can do a friction fit and it will be fine.

[@woodwindfixer]

The bigger the blob the better the job can be applied, but cleaning up blobs of silver solder is a real pain.

[@Blondihacks]

Every source I’ve seen says 1-6 thou is needed

[@88njtrigg88]

Miniature boiler.. Now you've got my attention.

[@zachwolf5122]

Woo! 100k subs!

[@alun7006]

Incredibly enjoyable to watch, as always. Thank you!

[@monadking2761]

Nice job! I Did know that you had to anneall so much and the cooling did not retemper the copper. This was very interesting as usual.

[@jesperschmidt8986]

when softening the copper, just put a couple lines on it with black marker - when the heat makes the lines go away, temp is perfect :)

[@terrytopliss9506]

Greatly impressed Quinn, the parts look terrific.👍👍

[@TravisFabel]

Is there any reason you can't anneal it with it still on the lathe? Like just have a torch head on the other side of the lathe keeping it hot?

[@alext8828]

My thought, exactly.

[@dermotkelly4077]

What a beautiful job

[@SimJackson]

A thought for drilling the firetube holes. If you drill the holes slightly undersized, then turn a slight shoulder on the tubes it makes soldering them all in place a hell of a lot easier as the tubes can't move while hot

[@quintrankid8045]

@@jeffarmstrong1308 Thanks for that link.

[@leighmackay7486]

😻 Well done in every aspect, Quinn.

[@35manning]

Random thought, after you've made this boiler, your next project could be a custom liquid fuel burner with maybe a steam powered injector. I've included a link to the type of burner I'm talking about. I personally have the MSR Dragonfly and wow does it sound like a rocket about to take off. The basic principles are simple. Take a tank of fuel with a valve, pressurise it. Run that fuel through a heating pipe / block to vaporise it into a gas, then run that gas to a nozzle that evenly spreads the flame out. Using a set amount of cold liquid fuel, ignite and heat the heating pipe. Let the fuel flow and the burner will continue to heat its liquid fuel until you run out of pressure. The 800ml or so of fuel in the 1lt bottles lasts a few days to a week of regular camp cooking. Err on the side of a couple of days maximum if boiling snow for drinking water in addition to cooking. Unlike the Coleman gas canisters, they can be refilled before a trip, can maintain pressure throughout its full range of fuel remaining (just add a couple of pumps) and aren't affected by cold temperatures (at least until minus 70 Celsius when even gasoline will freeze solid). For running a boiler for a steam engine, most of those points are pretty mute, except one. Refilling it. Some commercial stoves (like the Dragonfly I have) have a couple different nozzles (different bore sizes) to allow multi-fuel use of just about anything liquid that has a decent flame temperature and as you aren't cooking food and are (hopefully) using it in an outdoor or well ventilated space, you can buy the cheapest fuel in bulk with minimal or zero disposable packaging. Cheaper AND better for the environment. Win win. Plus, it'd be a super cool project to do, particularly if you do find a way to achieve steam powered injection or a small steam powered air compressor to maintain the burners pressure rather than having to pump it manually. That being said, a manual pump might not be that bad an idea. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iom7knyLZbuBrpI

[@35manning]

Also, second random thought of the day. I know you'll be silver soldering it, but have you thought about also riveting the tube plates in place, purely for the old school look? Even if you silver solder the insides of all of them. I've assisted licensed aviation mechanics a bit in my life, including bucking a LOT of rivets (cold hammer riveting on 40 thou aluminium, English units because aviation some how manages to use units from EVERY KNOWN measurement system in the universe, sometimes even for the same types of measurement. Do you want your fuel in Litres, kilograms, tons, pounds, US gallons or imperial gallons??? Grrrr), so I have a thing for real rivets. Even crawled up in the back of the fuselage where nobody will ever see my work, it's a great feeling when you and the rivetor get in sync and you pull off a perfectly formed rivet in a single pull. For those not in the know, three common commands in hammer formed riveting (at least in Australian aviation) is pull, rivet and touch. Pull, "I'm bucking NEXT to the rivet, give me a gentle hammer to pull the sheets together". Rivet, "I'm ready, give it good long hammer to form the rivet". Touch, "it's not formed quite right, give me a short hammer to finish / correct it. The rivetor can learn from how many "touches" are needed as to the length of their rivet duration. Did I mention I love real rivets? Just don't come near me with pop rivets, I'll be setting up the compressor for the pneumatic gun.