Roman Historian Demolishes Mark Antony

[@El-Hugger]

Mark Anthony has been very quiet since this video drop up

[@SeeJayCampbell]

Rather quiet in the two millennia before it dropped too, to be fair

[@vh4990]

Bro is cooked 😭

[@davefielder4411]

Cleopatra locked the account after he promised her a nice sea cruise, which didn't quite turn out the way he expected! He did make a better voice over actor such as Jeff Wayne's 'War of the Worlds'.

[@mhl56]

Not a good look

[@noreply-7069]

​@@SeeJayCampbell That's the joke.

[@Hgalo44]

He better hope Marc Anthony doesn’t hear about this and nails his hands to the senate door

[@Mrkabrat]

His soft, *pink* hands...

[@bongbongGAMING7878]

🤣

[@ham472]

LOL

[@s.v.848]

Oh come on, he has done that only a handfull of times.

[@greyfells2829]

This is the great humor in Antony. Few men today would openly mock Cicero, despite there being no danger in doing so. But Antony's legacy is so tarnished, that every Rome-bro now mocks his name and being. Antony was a failure.

[@TonyAguilarFigure-atively]

Marcus Antonius may have been all of these things but definitely was my favorite character in the Rome series brilliantly portrayed by James Purefoy. He had the best lines.

[@LittleWarsTV]

No question. He was totally brilliant in the TV show. Such a great character and actor

[@jefejefe8272]

thank u and I agree

[@Johnpaullouismusic]

Monikakk

[@rsr789]

Ice always melts. 😉

[@bine35]

my favourite line was "Oh save me the founding, Vorenus" lol (founding of Rome)

[@SodaPrezsing]

"Those lions you brought me were useless, wouldn't pull my chariot for shit!" - Marc Antony

[@Jon.A.Scholt]

Lions. That run.

[@Mma-basement-215]

Hahaha 🤣

[@lastknightofhonor8998]

Camels do I look like a fucking date merchant....get out

[@MikeHunt-fo3ow]

that reminds me of gladiator guy was sold 2 queer giraffe played by oliver something

[@hexmaster6267]

@@MikeHunt-fo3ow Those giraffes you sold me, they won't mate. They just walk around, eating, and not mating. You sold me... queer giraffes. I want my money back

[@newpeupyoass]

That's much easier to do now that Mark isn't around to defend himself.

[@chpet1655]

We know quite a lot of him and he is a man of great passions

[@RaixsOreh]

Not the first time marc antony governed rome at the behest of caesar he handled himself extremely terribly. He was a bad politician and an okay commander. He was only ever good when caesar was telling him what to do.

[@jeffreyrobinson3555]

@@newpeupyoass well he looped of Cicero’s head when he criticized him. Killing people who criticize you is a good sign of incompetence

[@susmitadeb2913]

@@jeffreyrobinson3555 Cicero merely criticized him or called for his death, gave him death threats, sent armies against him, taxed his supporters, argued for his brother Gaius' death?

[@jeffreyrobinson3555]

@@susmitadeb2913 no I’m thinking not Cicero made some speeches condemning him, but had zero power. He had severed his consulship before Caesar’s consulship, he never held any office after that Anthony was in control of Rome at the time Cicero’s execution, while Augustus-Octaves at this time, or Caesar if you were smart when you addressed him, was gathering his or his adopted fathers army together

[@Hy93Ri0n]

I always love it when you guys bring on professional historians, it’s a great way to get some extra context

[@LittleWarsTV]

Thanks! We try to talk to experts whenever we can. It’s always fun to do and you learn a lot more when you can ask questions directly from them. We’ve been lucky to get some awesome interviews and guests over the years. Dr Goldsworthy is very high on that list!

[@celsus7979]

He has a great series of lectures on the roman empire on his channel. His novels are also worth reading, especially the Vindolanda series about a Roman centurion stationed near Hadrian's wall.

[@dabrams84]

​@@LittleWarsTV🥳

[@zombiehampster1397]

Marcus Antony: Fake it till you make it...until you suffer a catastrophic defeat at Actium.

[@jeffreyrobinson3555]

That was just another in a list of military failures, one after another.

[@zombiehampster1397]

@@jeffreyrobinson3555 Touche :)

[@AdamSmith-gx9qm]

Yeah the battle of Philippi was an absolute disgrace 😂

[@jeffreyrobinson3555]

@@AdamSmith-gx9qm look who he was fighting. A demoralized army led by a split command tent I can’t play chess very well, but I have won against people that can’t play

[@peterl3417]

@@AdamSmith-gx9qmDid you not watch the video?

[@bpnforsyth]

He sounds a lot like Marshall Ney. When in charge of a smaller force under direct supervision he performs well and is personally very brave, But when charged with command of an entire army is not up to the task.

[@andrewtodd5919]

I wouldn't put Ney in the same category. He did well as a Corps commander during throughout the Napoleonic Wars. At Waterloo he was too rash and failed to properly combine arms. I would say George Custer might be a closer comparison

[@sartanawillpay7977]

@@andrewtodd5919 Custer wouldn't have run away like Anthony did. 😀 This can be a good thing or a bad thing.

[@andrewtodd5919]

@@sartanawillpay7977 I agree most likely not, but comparison is more appropriate. Self aggrandizing, pompous , arrogant etc. Custer probably a far better officer but still fumbled when larger units.

[@jamesmaclennan4525]

@@andrewtodd5919 Custers main problem was he kept forgetting he wasn't commanding a brigade anymore

[@andrewtodd5919]

@jamesmaclennan4525 I agree plus he was actually Colonel Custer. The General was a brevet promotion which reverted back at the end of the Civil War.

[@fastpublish]

Antony's attraction is his tragedy. We humans are attracted to tragedy. Perhaps because at base tragedy best describes us all.

[@Badbentham]

It totally helps for any classic tragedy, that looks for fates that are "larger than life" , that Anthony's entire antics/demeanor are indeed those of a quintessential nobleman. - Cicero/Cato might both be more "tragic" in the modern sense. Their personal aspirations for greatness , as far as they exist, are however vastly outshone by Anthony's hybris.

[@SpringfieldFatts]

I see they used the three seconds of footage from Rome involving Cleopatra that wouldn't get demonetized.

[@marsultor6131]

Yeah, HBO really leaned into that ✨cleopatraness✨

[@klaudioabazi4478]

I've read Dr. Goldsworthy's book on Antony and Cleopatra, and it's brilliant. Great work with this video Little Wars.

[@scottpankonin1068]

Rome vs Parthia is very good too. I found him via LWTV -- thanks guys!

[@cathakjordi]

His best book, and his most insightful one (and I think the one that really made his more public reputation) was his book on the Punic Wars. If you have not read it, you really should. I have read most of his other books and they truly feel lesser in comparison.

[@klaudioabazi4478]

​@@cathakjordi Oh yes i just read it these past two days. Thanks for the advice as it was brilliant, interesting and insightful. I have to say Dr. Goldsworthy gets the reasons right why Rome won and Carthage lost.

[@nemo35383]

Still astounds me they got this much time with Dr. Adrian Goldsworthy. Awesome

[@LittleWarsTV]

We begged nicely!

[@PalleRasmussen]

He has a fine KZbin channel himself, and he writes novels. He is not a secluded scholar.

[@JosephKelly-uj1zo]

He's well renowned as a historian?

[@PalleRasmussen]

@@JosephKelly-uj1zo I take it that you are not interested in Roman history? He is the current leading expert on Roman military history. Google him. That is why Google exists.

[@kev3d]

"...He contemplates having his slave kill him." I mean who hasn't?

[@IMPERATOR-EL]

Mark Antony takes the credit that belongs to Titus Labienus

[@irishcream9004]

Of Caesar's three principle Lieutenants, Anthony is the most flashy, but Labienus gave Caesar his hardest won victory at Munda, and Lepidus was his master of the horse and man in Rome, Anthony was a Caesarian (I would Argue that Lepidus was a populari rather Julius Caesarian, and Labienus was a Boni) and he was an early investor into that stock.

[@stsk1061]

​@@irishcream9004Pompeius the younger was in command at Munda.

[@stevenpartin9208]

​@@stsk1061Labienus was continually overlooked!

[@SinOfAugust]

In this context, I feel like HBO’s Rome portrayed him about right. There’s enough ambiguity to the depiction so that he may be largely seen as it is suggested here.

[@BrandonHernandez-tg5ql]

The best depiction of Mark Antony is HBO's Rome.

[@ktb1381]

Yes he fought in this campaign in that campaign and the other campaign... And then he took part in this other campaign and that campaign in this campaign. But he doesn't really have extensive military experience.... :-)

[@daniellipko710]

He's saying that at certain points, Antony didn't yet have the prerequisite experience to take on the task that he had been given. Also, being present at a campaign is not the same as leading it, and for example, just being in Gaul with Caesar would not necessarily give Antony the experience that WE with our knowledge of Caesar himself would assume

[@Trexmaster12]

Caesar & Pompey were military greats of their time because they started and ended their campaigns that earned them greatness. Their officers, those that have served a great deal with them & under their command, too were great in their own way because they knew what long-term warfare meant, mobilization, logistics - the whole shebang. The problem with Antony is the same problem with his allies & opponents that, either didn't had a fought-out campaign to know (reasonably get acquainted of the metaphysics of warfare as a whole; not necessarily every minute detail from start to finish) what military operations contain to achieve victory, or they had that dimwit know-how that looks impressive at first glance but once you went into details... the guy really was monodimensional. I'll say this, Mark Antony is on par with Marcus Crassus. Antony was lucky until he wasn't anymore, relied purely on his pedigree to claim authority, conjectures that nobody could verify, hustler aggressiveness, and a superficial knowhow that got lucky because of numbers or circumstance when it favored him. Octavian was young & conscientious to understand himself that he needs others for him to succeed. He was the young street urchin waiting for the timing to get his friend tripping the old braggart Antony on his nose down the pavement, to then bash his skull in. And that's why Octavian won...

[@ktb1381]

@@Trexmaster12 yeah yeah yeah but you gave a great speech in support of his pal Caesar! At least according to Shakespeare. 🙂

[@RTWPimpmachine]

Riding the coat tails of better commanders in a few campaigns where he played a minor role and then losing the major campaigns where he was in full command isn't particularly impressive. Anthony lost most of the battles he fought.

[@kylemendoza8860]

​@@Trexmaster12 I think Pompey was good at PR. Not really good at being a general.

[@obiwanfx]

Sorry but your point about not having much of a military carreer is quite weak if you have to say "he did well, but..." about 10 times. Anthony was vital at Alesia, Pharasalus and Philipi. What does it matter if he was not there the entire campaign? He was there when it mattered. Also the point about him losing at Mutina is quite a far stretch. 3 armies where against him and he basically surprised 2 of them before making a tactical retreat and keeping himself into the game.

[@asmith1022]

I agree (esp in regards to Philipi), but he's right about the Parthian campaign and Actium ... both were disasters.

[@susmitadeb2913]

​@@asmith1022He did conquer Media because of that Parthian campaign even if he suffered a big loss because of the Armenian betrayal. This is not a small thing.

[@wephilips6651]

Good point! Except that’s not what happens. Why make an objectively false statement about a video on the video itself which we can all check? He doesn’t say multiple times he did well but. He says he did x or was at y but he wasn’t there for a long time or didn’t play much of a part in terms of overall command or strategy. He’s not even making the overall point you are claiming he is making. Your own post is a strawman

[@hexmaster6267]

A tactical retreat, A TACTICAL RETREAT

[@trashfire9641]

Not a humiliating defeat, but in fact a rare species of victory.

[@Voltaire7]

Rumour has it, that Mark Anthony has deleted all his social media after this interview.

[@v.g.r.l.4072]

The scholar is very eager on his assessment. I like very much his books. History always fights the tendency to idealization... at any rate, Mark Anthony will always be sympathetic for everyone.

[@AJ-gv2hj]

Very interesting color commentary as I'm rewatching Rome- I think they got some parts of this right but like anything in TV there are parts they missed. Thanks for sharing

[@martinalarcon3108]

Mark Anthony left Rome for Egypt , then to the Bronx , NYC , where he became a very good salsa 💃 singer 😮😢

[@freitheit-pl1067]

Mr. Goldworthy, i love your books!

[@stevo271]

"I mean Antony does win... BUT .." "and yes he wins that battle as well... BUT.." "and sure he wins than battle .. BUT." "I mean he did defeat them.. BUT.." "and then he lost.. SEE I told you so! Horrible commander."

[@jamesrella763]

Yea I agree he mentioned many victories. He fucked up in Parthia and fucked up the political situations while Caesar was away and when he was in Egypt but in terms of him being a bad general or commander entirely i wouldn’t write him off. He is totally right about his behavior.

[@xotl2780]

If he was so great, why didn't he *win* when it mattered?

[@jamesrella763]

@@xotl2780 not great, not completely shite of a commander. He wasn’t at the same caliber of genius as others in the Roman world at that time.

[@LoutreDuBengale]

@@xotl2780 You always lose "when it matters" because a defeat is often dramatic. If he had lost instead of win some other battles, you would have said it was then that it mattered.

[@subutaiscipio4318]

@@xotl2780 Hannibal also lost when it mattered most. A general's career and greatness can't be compressed or reduced to just 1 battle.

[@konstantinoskalavrezos5273]

He's been dead for more than 2000 years, let it go...

[@benmckay4540]

Adrian goldsworthy has some of the best books about Roman history. Definitely read them

[@30whacko11]

I wonder if the composer of the soundtrack for Rome: Total War, knew that his piece wouldn't just be for a video game, but would go on to represent practically the whole Roman and Antiquity age.

[@miniaturemiddleearth7376]

Would love to see more of this kind of content!

[@LittleWarsTV]

Well that’s good! Because we love military history on and off the tabletop!

[@Ikokaoniko]

Still, I think Mark Anthony always had the makings of a Varsity athlete.

[@jimmann4763]

Goldsworthy was, as always, great. The attempts to include background music in the video, though, were distracting.

[@geordiejones5618]

The image I get of Antony is basically a more fun Sulla. I think HBO's Rome gives him great little moments where he shows a saviness that maybe he hid from most people, playing up this character that's formed in time, but those closest to him knew that he was sharper than he would ever give himself credit. I think he's a classic chip on his shoulder kinda guy, who was an expert at masking and played his cards close to the chest, and he goes out after a decade where he was arguably the most powerful person in the Mediterranean. He really deserves to be mentioned among Marius, Sulla, Pompey, and Caesar, because he played the game just as much and is part of the foundation of the imperial attitude. He might be the first to truly lean into the crown, by all accounts he very much enjoyed the trappings of Hellenistic monarchy, after the Treaty of Brundisium.

[@Zyzyx442]

Very well said, a fun fact to why Anthony hated Cicero was that his stephfather was sentenced to death in the Cataline Conspiracy. Also Plutarch hated Anthony for his eastern fascination and adoption of hellenism like you say, there is a discussion to be had of what was most virtous of stoic Roman ideals vs heroic Hellenistic ideals but our historic accounts are biased against Anthony, and though I love Cicero, especially his mind, Anthony had good reason to nail him.

[@al-muwaffaq341]

Apparently Sulla was a party animal that loved Greek culture like Antony

[@laisphinto6372]

And Sulla was an actual Leader and far more ambitious than Mark Anthony. Mark Anthony was fine being Caesars right Hand man, sulla was never fine being Marius right Hand man.

[@sobbyhasselhoff]

You should hear what Antony has to say about this guy.

[@jaderafaela3583]

Idk I think Goldsworthy is a little bias against Antony I prefer prof. Jeff Tatum's take on the man. Specially after reading Tatum's new biography about Mark Antony

[@ap9812]

Me too

[@janm.johansen9806]

@@jaderafaela3583 agreed. A Noble Ruin is brilliant.

[@lauraapostol346]

Usually Anthony make people either hate him either love him.But nobody is indifferent around him

[@afterthoughtsofsolitude280]

I don't want to be the guy that shows this video to Anthony...

[@hexmaster6267]

And then… the woman’s role always suited you best

[@charlierichardson613]

I could listen to Dr. Goldsworthy all day! Great discussion!

[@sartanawillpay7977]

He has his own KZbin channel that is worth checking out.

[@docsavage8640]

My grandmother told me Marc Antony was black. Julius Casar too. And Chairman Mao. Also Montezuma. And don't forget Catherine the Great.

[@wairen5020]

😂😂😂

[@mahmoudfathy2074]

Genghis Khan was black.

[@rocketpod1]

Das rite

[@AdaraHepburn938]

We wuz kangz

[@mikeharris1586]

respect to whoever chose to use the RTW soundtrack music

[@avalle4493]

He wasnt better commander than Agrippa, neither best politician than Octavian. Octavian genius was to have the humility to recognize that Agrippa was better general than him and empowered him.

[@TheAdmirableAdmiral]

IDK Marc Antony was probably the best military successor the era offered. He wasn't the same strategic genius ceasar was but his conduct at Philippi, and his ability to adapt and build fortifications showed that he was a competent commander. Not only that but his resolve in the siege of Mutina was admirable, He was out numbered 3 to 1 and was able to outmanuvre the senate by digging in, and rushing out from his defensive position while his opponents were mustering for the battle. He forced the Senate to fight on his own terms and managed to kill 2 consuls in the process. He also delivered a masterful speech at Caesar's funeral that on the surface promised amnesty but threatened repurcussions to the murder of his friend. On that day at least he could not have played things better.

[@franciscomap75]

Wrong, Agrippa was by far the best commander of his generation

[@lauraapostol346]

@@franciscomap75 Agrippa was very young at that point, he will become a very brilliant general but, at that point, he was totally inexperienced. He began to grow his skills in perusian war. At that poin antonius was the most powerfull.

[@Blitz9H]

Studying and learning history is one of the best aspects of miniature wargaming. Brilliant insight.

[@agoup1]

what is miniature wargaming? I have never heard of it

[@Blitz9H]

@@agoup1 Using miniatures, scaled down versions of the real thing, to simulate combat.

[@thecrusaderhistorian9820]

Thanks for this wonderful video!

[@richard4888]

TW Rome one music is always appricated

[@sd_league]

Dr. Goldsworthy might not be in his 20s anymore, but calling him ancient is a bit harsh no? ;) Strong video on a really strong channel! Keep the mix of fun gameplay and short and well done history lessons coming. :)

[@andrewpearson5504]

Wait, "A chariot driven by lions?" Gonna need a cage to drive this thing.

[@chrisdiokno5600]

It is interesting how various historical figures often get lionized

[@guneytopal7076]

Looking at Caesar's notes and the facts that we know, it's quite clear that Mark Antony was only made a senior member among Caesar's circle due to Titus Labienus switching over to the Pompeian/Republican faction. If that hadn't happened I'd say Mark Antony would've been similar to someone like Decimus Brutus. Someone close to Caesar but not his right hand hence with Caesar's death he wouldn't be a figure for Caesarean to rally around. But then again if we didn't have Antony being an idiot then Augustus would've been controlled or ousted relatively quickly before he could muster up some power and influence, hence the Roman Empire might've never existed and remained in the Republic state and never reaching the same cultural influence it holds today.

[@bongbongGAMING7878]

Snows always melts my guy.

[@anathardayaldar]

He sounds like he's great at tactics but poor in logistics.

[@antoniohenriquez9902]

I’m sure you will be remembered in history like he is.

[@eirikbelisarius1100]

Very interesting. Never thought of it this way, but it makes sense.

[@Jamiethedragon365]

Really sad that I'm going to Uni to do a Masters Degree in History and that the course doesn't have ancients or medieval history on it. Great video as always guys!

[@VLSG]

ancient history is generally nestled under classics and medieval history often has a field of its own outside of history as well.

[@Jamiethedragon365]

@@VLSG Very true. I did a brief study of medieval and ancient history as a module on my undergrad degree though. But that was fascinating learning about stuff like the Roman Legion system and such.

[@gobanito]

Mark Antony: Winter does not last forever. Spring comes. Snows melt. Scipio: Is that a threat? Mark Antony: No, I assure you, that is no threat. Snows always melt.

[@meowmixers9338]

So sick of this youtube drama. Who even are these "influencers"?

[@slabbyfatback2272]

Yeah, he won this battle but..Oh, he also won this battle but...He did do this but...He did do that but...Yeah' he banged Cleopatra but.... OHHHH, and did I mention he rode a chariot pulled by LIONS!!!!!!!!!!!! Mark Antony was THE MAN!!!!!!!!!

[@noreply-7069]

What's the music in the background?

[@sld1776]

Soundtrack to Rome: Total War

[@VanaeCavae]

I like Mark Anthony because of his great loyalty to Julius Caesar.

[@seansweeney2875]

Well said Geoff..👍

[@dougrussell1926]

He needs to go after Bigus Dickus next.

[@clarkstartrek]

A flawed, naïve politician, prone to arrogance, Antony could be a loyal friend and the bitterest of enemies. A heavy drinker, and an inveterate womanizer, he was a great lover and a poor husband!!!!

[@jmace2424]

Marc Antony when nobody went for his crowning of Caesar gambit at the Lupercalia: “First chance I get, this list of people is so proscribed!”

[@michanycz7166]

Thank you, doctor Goldsworthy for everything you have done to popularise Roman history. I love "The Fall of Carthage" and "The Life of a Colossus". And you have been great in Time Commanders. Greetings from Poland.

[@jefejefe8272]

I would say his service at Alesia would show he was quite capable

[@85Funkadelic]

I'm heart broken. I always loved Marc Antony.... Of course that's the one from Shakespear not the real guy. Love this lesson I just learned thanks for sharing.

[@janm.johansen9806]

@@85Funkadelic, then you should give Jeff Tatum’s book on Antony ‘A Noble Ruin’ a read. It’s a little less biased.

[@MRFlackAttack1]

Is the music from Rome: Total War royalty free?

[@MbisonBalrog]

He fought the Parthians. He not win but did some daring things.

[@octaviodovalle6550]

Much appreciated!

[@seansweeney2875]

Well said James's 👍

[@LittleWarsTV]

Hi Sean. Love the engagement with history, regardless of any opinions shared. But any personal attacks or insults are removed on this channel. This is not that kind of space.

[@maiasdad]

Mark Antony is the Jay Cutler to Julius Caesar’s Peyton Manning. He’s not that bad considering the campaigns and victories he himself was involved but when he’s compared to an all-time great HoF general like Caesar, then his accomplishments will definitely pale.

[@thundershirt1]

"To play act being Bachus"...lol, I'm stealing that, if only I could find a way to use it.

[@jimmyteerex2177]

Separated by space and time, you can't help but like the guy. However more a dashing cavalry officer than a capable general and statesman.

[@tricivenola8164]

This dry adept mitigation of a legendary historical character is not what anybody wants to hear. And the long list of places he fought only fortifies his soldierly status. He had great heart, great passions and great flaws, including alcoholism. He was larger than life. Caesar is admired, but Marc Antony is loved. Somewhere in the bloodless rustling of your scholarly studies, there must be a tiny bit of jealousy for someone so alive that his charisma endures all these centuries after he discovered that lions won't pull.a chariot. You have to love a guy like that.

[@susmitadeb2913]

He was all this charming, sexy, lover of women and wine, flawed. Yet he was also loyal, kind, courteous, generous, magnanimous, brave, bold, humorous, intelligent, great part of Dionysos. His noble side is rarely discussed. We need more focus on his positive side. We aren't living in the augustan imperial era anymore.

[@seansweeney2875]

Goldsworthy has more military experience than Mark Antony..he was there with caeser hahahahah...if bullshit could fly he'd have his own airforce 🛩🛩🛩🛩

[@Malasorte1989]

You have to learn more History about Marc Antony!

[@ClearOutSamskaras]

This was interesting but would have been far more interesting if he had added what Caesar thought of Antony, or what we can infer Caesar thought of Antony.

[@owen1607]

I thought this was gonna be a guy in a toga costume fully committing to the bit lol

[@StoptheHateJustDebate]

This is scholarly chatter. He mentions Antony is this battle and that action, and then says, something dismissive about the battle, but fails to keep track of how many battles and action Antony to part in! This is a scholar that hasn’t tasted battle himself. Even a small action, with maneuvering and combat is “epic” and meaningful to the men that faced the swords, spears, arrows and charging horses of the enemy. To belittle Antony’s battle prowess in this manner is disingenuous and just bored scholar’s attempt to say something “new”. It’s all a bit rubbish actually.

[@ulyssesocounter8488]

You won’t find an individual on earth who’s “tasted” the kind of battle the ancients fought. Up close, personal, slow and exhausting. Regardless, he’s not talking about Antonius the soldier, but Antonius the general, and as general he’s led his army in two military catastrophes, namely the Parthian expedition and the Actium campaign. Antonius simply was not a great commander.

[@wephilips6651]

This is pure cringe comment. I don’t know why people are getting so precious about this video. He’s not even slagging off Anthony just saying the pop culture image doesn’t really match the history. Which is hardly surprising. That’s like most famous people throughout history. The idea that a historian should be ignored because he hasn’t ’tasted battle’ is as embarrassing as it is illogical. We wouldn’t even know about Anthony without academics

[@PeterOConnell-pq6io]

Antony reminds me as a super magnified version of the 19th century US Army adventurer George Armstrong Custer in a strange way.

[@luisfsm77]

Very Good Video 👏👏👏

[@rutlandfuel2637]

Augustan Slander! Antony a stud

[@janm.johansen9806]

Having recently read Jeff Tatum’s ‘A Noble Ruin - Mark Antony, Civil War, and the Collapse of the Roman Republic’ I’m a little unimpressed with Goldsworthy and his take on Antony.

[@bwg4608]

The Tatum book is really interesting. It definitely gave me a new appreciation for Marcus Antonius. And while Dr. Goldsworthy certainly made many valid criticisms of Antonius' military record (especially in regards to Actium), I do think he was overall a little unfair. In particular I think he undervalued Antonius' military actions in Caesar's Civil War (where Antonius showed a lot of creativity and daring in getting his half of the army to Caesar past the Pompeian blockade) and especially in regards to Mutina. Yes, Antonius ultimately lost the Mutina Campaign, but given that his army was outnumbered something like two to one (the Republicans having 13 legions: 4 under Decimus Brutus, 2 under Octavian, 3 under Aulus Hirtius, and 4 under Gaius Pansa to Antonius' 6 legions) and also outnumbered in veteran troops (the Republicans having something like 5 veteran legions against Antonius' 3), Antonius still gave them a very hard fight and did an excellent job of extracting his army after the battle. I also think Antonius deserves a lot of credit for keeping the core of his army loyal after Mutina. It was very easy in the civil wars at that time for commanders to see their entire armies defect to the other side (e.g. Publius Vatinius losing his 3 legions to Marcus Brutus, or Aulus Alienus losing his 4 legions to Gaius Cassius Longinus, or Decimus Brutus losing a whopping 10 legions to the Triumvirs). Thus, the fight that Antonius was able to keep so many of his men loyal (and find new recruits) even after suffering a major defeat at Mutina, shows that Antonius must have been an incredibly charismatic commander in his prime.

[@janm.johansen9806]

@@bwg4608, very well put. And I’m glad you liked the book. I’ve become a bit of a fan of Tatum’s.

[@susmitadeb2913]

@@janm.johansen9806 Exactly. Tatum's book is a much better take on Antony, whereas Goldsworthy only repeats augustan historians and adds nothing new to the discussion.

[@AlanJeffery-y5f]

@@susmitadeb2913 Oh, are you saying that his criticisms of Antony are not based on fact?

[@susmitadeb2913]

@@AlanJeffery-y5f Because he is just repeating Octavian's pet historians. He does not have any independent take or criticism. He does not consider that what we know about Antony is from highly hostile sources. Antony was the first roman whose memory was damned after his death, all pro-Antonian sources were destroyed, and no one dared to write anything that painted him in a positive light.

[@Timrath]

8:55 The "hand-in-shirt" gesture has nothing to do with Napoleon. That pose was universally used by educated men throughout the 18th and 19th centuries, and it wasn't limited to military people; even Mozart posed like that in one of his portraits. I'm surprised that this historian has never looked at portraits from the 18th century. Hiding your hand inside your garment goes back to Cicero, who wrote that orators should do that to prevent themselves from gesturing. Nor did they put the hand in their "shirt", as he says, since shirts didn't use to have buttons, and the front was always hidden under a waistcoat or vest. It is the waistcoat where the hand gets tucked. The purpose of that pose was to show that one is an educated man who has read his Cicero and knows how to speak in public.

[@jmace2424]

Basically what I’m hearing you say is “He could have been great had he fought The Parthians.”

[@thedot3814]

In the 1970s when Celopathria came on TV, the whole house came to a stop and watched it. Mom loved it.

[@promnightdumpsterbaby9553]

Marc antoney put Augustus on the throne with his spectacular victory at philippi ...say what you will. FACT

[@geoffreypereira8024]

So...aside from fighting and winning in Judea, Egypt, Gaul, Macedonia, Greece [2x] and Spain he wasn't a good or brave soldier?

[@janponizil608]

I dont agree. He had military experience, he was a simple, loyal, bold and flashy commander with a few moments of briliance. When he was in military he was capable luteinant, when he was in politics he always loyally defended Caesar. Then capitalized on Caesar s death like a pro, then basically won at philipy in one move. Still pushing on with his boldness, same with partthians same with actium. It was not crazy clever but reasonable and consistent with his military mind. Of course he had a lot of flaws but this guy almost negates all of his positives... Ultimately he was beaten thanks to a woman.

[@aisle_of_view]

The guy from Van Halen?

[@DJ-tt7tq]

Fascinated by him as a soldier, but he was definitely ruthless and power hungry, just like so many. I don't think I would have liked to have met him.

[@guiseppe7058]

Is there no Italian professor who podcasts.

[@larrousseyves9408]

The music was so loud I just couldn't hear what he's saying.

[@ChonkNatividad]

This Roman Historian has his own KZbin channel where he regularly uploads about Roman history so if you at all enjoyed this go check him out!!!

[@gonatas1]

Much as I love and respect Mr. Goldsworthy’s work, I have never understood this point about Anthony he is often making. Was Antony a military rival to a Caesar? Of course not. But he was certainly not devoid of military virtues and popular with his soldiers. And going on about how he was not that experienced in the course of recounting campaign after campaign where he is involved (often successfully) does not really compute. Anthony was a flawed commander but far from an empty helmet. I think the ancient sources lay out this impression quite well overall.

[@LordArtes]

Exactly. Antony was one of the grate generals that suvived the war. The was no Alexander oder Ceasar but he was a good General.

[@seansweeney2875]

Dead right. Well said 🙏👍

[@ulyssesocounter8488]

What perhaps the video fails to make understandable is that Antonius actually began his military career later than the average Roman nobilis did, so he did have less experience than others. Antonius began military service when he was around 26, compare that to other renowned Roman generals of the first century BCE like Pompeius, who started at 17 and Caesar, at 19. Countless others, less famous today also of the first century began service in their late teens: Q. Sertorius, L. Valerius Flaccus, P. Sestius, L. Licinius Murena, M. Porcius Cato and the list goes on.

[@gonatas1]

@@ulyssesocounter8488 But it doesn’t seem that Antony’s late start and debaucherous youth held him back much, does it? It may even have been an advantage to his career from the political perspective. By comparison Pompey who started early in the military was a notoriously poor politician. Antony sees to be the kind of man who could handle both the politics in Rome and an army, as he did before Pharsalus as Caesar’s man in Rome and then at Pharsalus commanding the left.

[@ulyssesocounter8488]

@@gonatas1 Pompeius terrible at politics? He managed to become consul at 36, without ever becoming quaestor or praetor. He managed to achieve for himself the glory of three triumphs, one of which of grand proportions. Nothing in Rome was ever said or done in the 50’s without taking Pompeius into consideration. If he had won Pharsalus, he would be remembered as the most eminent Roman of the first century. As for Antonius, I wasn’t talking about his political career, and I never even said that he delayed his career because of debauchery. He was a drunkard, but his military career was probably held back by other considerations. Regardless, Goldsworthy said that he didn’t have much experience in war, and I ventured to give better explanation about this. His later success in the political arena is another matter.

[@raylast3873]

9:06 hey man, no reason to diss McClellan like that!

[@tonyochiha9798]

This is day 2 on the timeline for Mark Anthony to respond to this diss video.

[@jacobhollback2879]

"he just didn't do very well in all these battles, I mean he won most of them and did very well but he just wasn't very good. You know he just doesn't have much experience - aside from all these various battles and campaigns he served in, he just didn't know how to command."

[@lazios]

Mark Antony had no lack of experience as a soldier, he lacked experience (and probably the skills, otherwise he would have won), to be a leader; it's different to be under Caesar's orders or to be Caesar. The “weakling” Octavian (who was not weak at all, he simply was not a soldier, was a politician), unfortunately for Mark Antony was smart (very smart); he had the ability to have on his side one of the best (although not widely known) generals that the Romans (and not only the Romans) have seen: Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa. This is the reason why he won the civil war.

[@lastknightofhonor8998]

He was there at all the major battles of caesar.....easy to criticize from a chair

[@righteouslydefiant5362]

Funny,,,,we think of him (Antony) as a great military leader,,,but in reality he doesn't have much experience,,,but the experiences he does have "he did quite well" 😅😅😅

[@laisphinto6372]

How much experience does Anthony have AS His own Commander and Not being under Caesar?

[@airborngrmp1]

It's almost unfortunate that we wind up with Caesar getting assassinated over a political dispute, after essentially presiding over the dismantling of the Republic. The fact that he is one of the (if not the) great Roman conquerors sometimes gets overshadowed (or, more compelling, he was so influential politically that his military successes were embellished to match his August stature by the 40's BCE). Either way, Caesar was so successful in Gaul, and later in the Civil War, that his mediocre lieutenant winds up a household name.

[@karlquinn6571]

He's asleep on my couch but muttered "prick" at you