Roman History 20 - Commodus To Septimius 177-197 AD

[@robertgiles9124]

imagine marrying a woman destined to "marry a king" ....and then you don't get the job. You'd never hear the end of it.

[@curtiswebb8135]

Don't ever get married

[@fartakiss9595]

Could be an "Oracle of Delphi" type of prophecy. Not meant to be a literal king, but a Burger king. Not exactly lying, but definitely misleading to those who interpret with ambition.

[@stonedwalljack9276]

@@curtiswebb8135 Cheating yourself out of one of the most emotionally rewarding experiences imaginable.

[@byrnesupholstery]

​@@curtiswebb8135😊

[@LK-gl3rj]

Sure, but I find it's a good technique for pulling classy women: tell 'em I'm gonna be emperor. Works for me!

[@Gastogh]

46:00 "And also, did you know that Commodus was the reincarnation of Hercules? Not just that he liked to associate himself with Hercules, mind you, but that he was literally the reincarnation of Hercules? Yes, good times were ahead. The crazy really got rolling right after Cleander and his allies were liquidated..." How is this man so god damn funny

[@nashemberton970]

I wish I could’ve listened to these when they first came out. Thank you, for all the detail, for making these the best podcasts I’ve ever listened to. I can’t wait to see what you have to say ab the crisis of the third century. Please, keep doing history

[@domisPL_01]

It only gets more interesting:)

[@aasifazimabadi786]

At least you don't have to wait for the next episode, as some of the six-year-old comments can attest (and as I would imagine, the 11 to 15 year old comments on Mike Duncan's website). The benefit of not listening to this series when it was brand spanking new in the late 00s and early 10s is that we get to binge listen. For example, I'm going through an average of two of these videos a day.

[@SpicyTexan64]

It's the exact same whether then or now.

[@tylerhaigler7409]

Love this. You can't find these details ANYWHERE ONLINE. it's nearly impossible. Not sure how you know all this but glad this series is here. Knowledge is more valuable than any physical item

[@fugazishoegazey648]

There are these things called books and there are some really good ones about Roman history.

[@2msvalkyrie529]

@ fugazi That's what we're up against !

[@dominicp9296]

@@2msvalkyrie529 loll right can't even believe someone would say that. I'm glad he likes it and learns something but I'm assuming that doesent happen very much

[@fartakiss9595]

Audiobooks on "History of Rome" is a good start, but they lack the conciseness of what this podcast offers.

[@TheGreenTaco999]

I strongly dislike it when people don't source their stuff, it can make it seem like they're just making it up

[@Satellite_Of_Love]

"As I'm sure Leatus calmy explained without raising his voice and cussing anyone out" and "So, Leatus hit upon a great idea. A really, really great idea that was just really, really great" made this one of my favorite episodes of this podcast.

[@eugenebebs7767]

Emperor fighting on gladiatorial arena wiuld be just as ridiculus as president fighting in a wrestling match... Hey wait a minute~

[@rickvassell8349]

I'll take you out to the bleachers guy? The guy who threatened to beat up the President?

[@klol2123]

@@rickvassell8349 he’s referring to when current President Donald Trump appeared on WWE and choke-slammed its CEO, Vince McMahon.

[@a-nus]

@@klol2123 Imagine being this narcissistic

[@staygoldponyboy8881]

Commodus also appeared in a play called 'Domi Solus' alongside an actor called Macaulius Culkianus.

[@jforozco12]

Donaldus Hercules Felix Pious Commodus Augustus Caesar Trumpus

[@finwefingolfin7113]

" The art of creating bureaucratic chaos for fun and profit.." ..Cleander probably

[@fartakiss9595]

"What evil have I done"? After hearing that comment, I cant help but feel for Julianas... Maybe banishment or exiled would have been more appropriate for the "crime" of ambition, but he really didn't deserve execution for something that wasn't even his idea or doing.

[@justindearmond1]

"eh, yeah, thats the ticket." i say that all the time still...Jon Lovitz the Pathological Liar, SNL. great skits.

[@2msvalkyrie529]

Gibbon remarks on Commodus. : " He valued nothing in sovereign power except the unbounded license to indulge his sensual appetites ......his hours were spent in a Seraglio of 300 beautiful women and as many boys of every rank and of every province.' Hmm......every job has its perks !

[@geordiejones5618]

I'll never understand why Tiberius Pompeianus doesn't get ANY blame for Commodus. He wasn't his father's first choice for the throne, but when Commodus's brother in law Tiberius rejected the offer to be Caesar and then Augustus, Marcus's only remaining option was his only surviving son. Had he left the throne vacant or chosen someone the troops didn't know/trust, it would have certainly caused another round of civil wars. The imperial court got lucky with Avidius Cassius, but that wouldn't have been the case if Marcus chose anyone other than Tiberius or Commodus. Marcus should have either named Tiberius successor despite his wishes or compelled him better, because he was an EXCELLENT legate and an able magistrate. Lowkey up there with Agrippa, Aetius and Belisarius as the greatest Romans to never hold the throne.

[@fartakiss9595]

If Tiberius didn't want to be Caeser, Marcus understood, as Marcus admitted he didn't enjoy being Caesar either.

[@Dionysus-Reality]

I read somewhere 'though i don't remember where' that he strategically declined the offer since he knew that even if he took the role of Caesar to become Augustus Commodus was surely going to start a civil war in order to try to take power.

[@TheGreenTaco999]

​@@Dionysus-Realityit has to be outright stated that it was strategically decided, because the outcome it's so horrible and so predictable that the decision would look irrational and reckless unless specifically stated otherwise

[@rsiraistlin2473]

Pertinax always one of my favorite little known emperors n went out like a boss

[@gethynphillips7739]

Still my favourite of all time.

[@dangerdan2592]

Too bad the corrupt and traitorous Praetorian Guard murdered him. I would have liked to see how he did as emperor. The Praetorians should have been disbanded much sooner than they were. When the people who are supposed to guard you and your family would just as soon kill you as protect you, especially if you didn't bribe them, well that's when they need to go.

[@aguy1340]

"what evil have I done? whom have I killed?" ouch

[@-timaeus-9781]

Ouch indeed.

[@theinsanepumpkincarver]

@navarro enjoyer Dovahhatty?

[@maximusmedia8412]

Tbh trying to literally buy the empire was definitely some evil done

[@TheGreenTaco999]

​​@@maximusmedia8412as if that's not what every emperor really was doing when paying the legions and bribing whoever they need to. Those soldiers believe in their paychecks more than they believe in Rome

[@brendanryan6740]

i have been just enjoying this mammoth series so much....i alternate each evening with this series and durant's history of civilization....the richest sleeping i can provide myself....

[@rebeccahaines9839]

Fun Fact: Shortly before his assassination, Commodus penned the National Anthem of Commodiana: "Gods bless Commodiana An empire I didn't make up!"

[@enriquehartmann8642]

I love Bender!

[@redjirachi1]

@@enriquehartmann8642 Thanks to Bender's Big Score maybe Bender and Commodus met

[@Cheka__]

He wasn't assassinated. He was killed in single combat by Maximus in the Colosseum.

[@ruairimasun1073]

you could tell after Commodus that shit would go downhill. maybe it's why that's the part of Roman history no one remembers

[@geordiejones5618]

It was 200 years of mostly chaos but even in decline the Romans knew how to live large.

[@tehutibrim594]

These guys & gals had some hellafied names, you do a great job with the pronunciations and I thought I did good in skhool lol.

[@ickenham1]

Pjdjdujf

[@supermariosunshine64]

Russell Crowe deserved an episode.

[@HVLLOWS1999]

"Are you not entertained!"

[@johnmclachlan1023]

He will have his revenge.

[@RoboBoddicker]

Severus kills Alb(in)us

[@maqsooddinajihad2521]

Copydot i c wat u did

[@Indigo1218]

Damn....well whaddya know

[@myemailaccount3046]

@@maqsooddinajihad2521 can somebody please explain this joke to a yokel like me

[@hendersongalbreath1072]

In the "Harry Potter" book series, a character named Severus Snape killed a character named Albus Dumbeldore. There ya have it :)

[@tehutibrim594]

@@hendersongalbreath1072 lol Harry Potter would of never got that 1

[@MasisReubenPanos]

At 1:51:20 the location of the battles fought by Alexander III and hundreds of years later by Septimius Severus is commonly known as Issus. If you Google "battle of Isis" you will come up with "something" different and recent.

[@RomanHistoryFan476AD]

Shame what modern day loonies have done in the past few years to ruin links to ancient battles.

[@paulrosa6173]

One thing that may have been happening with the beast hunts is the people would have had a lot more protein in their diet while they were on. The dead men and those executed would been buried or burned or simply dumped in the dozen of so waste dumps in the city, but I think the wild animals were carved up and sold on the market. It would be very like the sacrifices at the Roman, Egyptian and Hebrew temples, where the participants ate the meat sacrificed and cooked on the altar. There's a story I read about Claudius smelling the roast beast at a temple next to the basilica where he was hearing a legal case, and adjourning for a bite. Otherwise, meat was always expensive. I told this suspicion to a friend years ago she said they were getting a protein rush from the games. Commodus was actually building the body politic, literally. I think it's in Leviticus where, for sacrifices for the temple, it is specified that the offal and skin had to be burnt on a separate altar at a distance from the actual roasted part. of the holocaust offering. The viscera would stink while being burned. I also wonder if the velarium used to shade the arena was actually made of canvas like they tried to claim on the PBS program years ago. It would have been so very heavy. And it isn't required to be strong enough to convert wind power to motive force. It could have been as light as a parasol. Why wouldn't they have used something lighter weight; like cotton (from India) or silk form Asia or even domestically produced fine linen. Money was no object and the games in the arena were a kind of a Christmas excess. Even if silk or cotton cloth was expensive, a month or so in the sun would only bleach the material and it could have been sold, like the meat, to a subcontractor afterwards for dyeing and finishing. It was a slaughter house so perfume was burned in gilded bronze vessels throughout the arena.

[@2msvalkyrie529]

Thank you ! Excellent knowledge.!

[@BrandonWilliams-wf6hg]

56:26 commodus seems like a pretty funny guy

[@cybersasho]

lmao

[@CallMeRito]

Funny how?

[@BrandonWilliams-wf6hg]

@@CallMeRito i think your funny

[@CallMeRito]

@@BrandonWilliams-wf6hg Funny like i'm a clown?

[@Inca13]

commudus was a legend lol

[@-timaeus-9781]

:)

[@wicksinn]

I see you've received your donative

[@cybersasho]

he was emperor at Rome's peak

[@gjones7547]

Mad Emperor's, how times haven't changed...

[@thomasdonovan3580]

Why did Rome fall? How did it last as long as it did?

[@Retro77691]

Commodus was a cowboy 🤠 🐎

[@emsnewssupkis6453]

From the commode to the septic tank: Rome falls.

[@pharaohsmagician8329]

The more I watch these, from the beginning, the more it turns into a tragedy! The bright red heart of Roma suffocates under the Royal Purple Regalia of the Imperator, of the Father of the Fatherland. The Princeps, The First Citizen. But it looks impossible to rule both East and West. What's the largest a single Empire can be?? I bet there's been some sort of study on that..

[@2msvalkyrie529]

Largest ? The American Empire . From 1945 until ....? ( fill in blank )

[@micfail2]

@2msvalkyrie a person commenting on a history podcast about an Empire, who doesn't know what an Empire is. Classic internet.

[@bishop6218]

"He's Hercules ? Well he can come and clean my stables if he wants" . Anonymous senator, last known words...

[@goodsolonius7305]

Lol why are “conspiracy theories” so insane but “conspiracies” happen all the time?

[@geordiejones5618]

Because they aren't theories. They're crackpot, scattershot bullshit that rely on a total disengagement from reality. Every conspiracy theory relies on the most dubious of circumstance and never has a clear operator: who benefits?

[@digitalcommunist6335]

Because they are allowed to be proliferated on purpose. Conspiracy theory nutcases , grifters, like fat Austin dude & his clones , or that english ‘reptile’ and his ilk , are here for a reason. So you can hide actual conspiracies. Because majority of sane people will dismiss anything those loonies say after being exposed to crazy talk. Thats why you had all those stories about 9/11 for instance. Lunatics were talking about hologram planes, space weapons, mini nukes , rigged explosives, mossad conspiracy, 4th reich cabal, annunaki , rouge elements of military etc….. So you poison discourse enough that you can dismiss anybody as crazy. If you ask about Dick Chenney odd behavior that day, crazy gaps in Able Danger program, ISI money transfers to terrorists, Saudi ambassadors behavior in weeks leading to event, manner of collapse of building 7, why was air defense stood down, why was Pentagon video never released when they seized footage from 180 cameras ( that crappy release where nothing can be seen doesn’t count) etc , you can be put with rest of the loonies by default and dismissed. That’s why ‘conspiracy theory’ loonies are tolerated.

[@john_smith_john]

@@digitalcommunist6335 congrats, you managed to advance a crackpot conspiracy theory ABOUT other conspiracy theories.

[@jorenvanderark3567]

Because the source for the average "theory" has is "my drug addled mind"

[@goodsolonius7305]

@@jorenvanderark3567 you're right, only drug addicts would believe that substances with a melting point of 1500 degrees celcius+ can't melt from temperatures less than half that or that bullets can't hit one target before pulling a U turn and hitting a second target, not that you would have any idea what I'm talking about since you religiously follow the mainstream media

[@Nonamearisto]

Another thing, most Romans didn't live in Italy. Saying that the Roman legions weren't Roman because some of the Romans (ethnically Roman, not just anyone living in the empire) lived in Spain, Gaul (now mostly France), Lusitania (today's Portugal) or what is now Romania (and the Roman population of what are now mostly Slavic countries), doesn't mean they weren't Roman.

[@EinFelsbrocken]

Think about the actual roman citizens. Would they see your point? I think its about *that* kind of "being roman"

[@SuperMrHiggins]

You could be a citizen by serving in the military. It a nationality. You could be part of the Latin language group. But the two weren’t synonymous.

[@zaboomafool1911]

Senators don't show up to gladiator matches: So you have chosen, death British Legions try to promote rival emperors: This is fine

[@skyfall9124]

Thanks for taking out the Audible intros. I know they helped Mike but I was one who preferred without.

[@MrJgohde]

The only thing that I got out of studying Commodus was that the Gladiator (2000 film) was total Hollywood B/S. Surprise, surprise ... it certainly was NOT to me. As far as the emperor Commodus goes, this video is one of the better ones on him. Good information is pretty sketchy and hard to find. I certainly wont pass any morality judgements upon him. Out of the huge number of Roman emperors most of them were assassinated within just a few years. For the most part it was just a game of survival. Kill your enemies and bribe others before they had a chance to do away with you.

[@effexon]

looking map animations and this podcast series, another common trope in roman empire is how often shared emperorship consuls end up civil war against each other. not always but recurring enough.

[@2msvalkyrie529]

A bit harsh on Gibbon. He could hardly begin his History in medias res - with no preamble of any kind. Also his prose style is exquisite so even the " boring " bits flow effortlessly by . Every one should try to read as much of it as they can ? Some of it is bound to rub off .

[@jileelmcdaniels5549]

New good , old bad. So people talk badly about gibbon, even though it's an obvious master piece.

[@Cheka__]

Commodus is not a moral man.

[@crypticcowboy2409]

Excellent job. Thanks for making this.

[@Rocinante2300]

Next Assassins Creed is gonna be here

[@kanyekubrick5391]

Καλλίνικος Γκρατσό you know this for a fact or just wishing that was the case

[@burg2740]

Nah it was England

[@Rocinante2300]

Haha yeah, I spoke too soon

[@dangerdan2592]

Hey that could be pretty fun. The assassination missions would be awesome lol.

[@beth4893]

Consequentially they all came up with the same answer "me" I laughed really hard at that

[@stevekon11]

All that was right and good in the world ended with the defeat of Albinus...what a pity.

[@-timaeus-9781]

Everything was downhill after Marcus Aurelius.

[@stevekon11]

So many Emperors and each one of their stories has a lesson for all generations of humanity.

[@rewind2482]

May all our empires/nations be fortunate enough to go downhill for 300 (1300?) years.

[@TheLoyalOfficer]

Great points around 1:39 !

[@PritchDringle]

Mike D baby! I recently listened to the Hardcore History episode that guy did. If I recall correctly I saw something somewhere that alluded to Mr Duncan being a fan of old school punk rock. D Carlin's down. Y'all need to get together and talk about some classic alternative rock. Don't forget to record it.

[@blindthrall]

To the Tiber with Tiberius, and to the commode with Commodus!

[@glenlawler3470]

Again, however easy for others to change sits on the map that would be so useful in the podcast

[@alberpajares4792]

Commodus seems to me one of the most interesting emperors of Rome.., counting on the most of the Roman emperors were crazy nuts,.. 👉😛

[@ebe7840]

Great story and god history. ❤🎯

[@RobbieTop423]

mike duncan

[@arthur-yq4ic]

not adopting a capable general as successor was catastrophic

[@slowerthinker]

urgh 15:30, to paraphrase Tuco Ramírez: when you have to stab, stab. Don't talk!

[@rustyshackleford2719]

Is it wrong that I think Commodus was rather epic?

[@Alamyst2011]

Epic in terms of historical debauchery.

[@georgeokoro1149]

That’s your idea of epic?

[@aasifazimabadi786]

Nice Dale Gribble reference, Rusty.

[@HVLLOWS1999]

COMMODVS CHADVS MAXIMVS

[@aasifazimabadi786]

Silly me. I spelled it the "Battle of Isis," for it is the Battle of Issus, and in accordance with Duncan's observations, Alexander's fight gets the Wikipedia article. The 194 AD battle can be found on a disambiguation page.

[@tomhirons3261]

great info thx

[@kingmaegor5297]

Septimius Severus is a unique chad.

[@nicholaskrancher2693]

He was going back to Paradise City where the grass is green and the girls are pretty

[@bluewizzard8843]

Well after the preatorians killed the emperor it was really obvious that the preatorians had to go , all of them.

[@redjirachi1]

Ah yes, Didius Julianus: the most powerful Darwin Award winner

[@histguy101]

To say that the army is no longer Roman because the soldiers are provincials is silly. At one point, Italians were allowed in the army. That is, Italian provincials... They weren't Romans either. The days when the Roman army was made exclusively of actual Latin born, ethnic Romans was when Rome was a city state, and trying to defeat their neighbors.

[@honda6353]

I hate the pretorian guard.

[@thomsbooth4906]

Ever feel like slapping Joaquim Phoenix ????

[@rickiandavis]

Vespasian ruled69-79AD, then his son Titus

[@howeyhanley3947]

I recognized that map. Famed German historica right?

[@JoeyJoJoJoestarJuniorShabadoo]

What about Russel Crowe?

[@Lilbunnialice404]

someone should explain to me why people became emperors their first order of business wouldn't have been to disband and arrest all of the praetorian guards and never reimplement them

[@Alamyst2011]

The reason is several fold. Roman legions were kept outside of Italy. The only armed men in Italy were the Guard. Ordering an army back to Rome was as dangerous as the Guard. The Guard was well supplies with information and spies. They would have been aware if an Emperor ordered an army back.

[@Alamyst2011]

@Milosh Simonovski Indeed. For some Emperors the guard was essential to staying in power

[@glenlawler3470]

the bust sits on the map

[@paulrosa6173]

I find it very easy to understand why Commodus hated the Senate. It's means the people did too. Mr. Duncan said it already. Marcus may have been too high above the man on the street but his brother and Commodus weren't. The playboys could hear it better, perhaps? The people were getting over a plague, their men had been wasted on warfare, the country was starving and Commodus was the only "revolution" the police state would allow. I think the same is true for all the ":bad emperors". The emperor is the only real politics that is allowed and that possibly even hears the man on the streets. I think the same is somewhat true today. We are becoming a very well observed state and so far the police state is more a comfort for most than a threat. But guys like Bernie Sanders know the discrepancies of wealth are not healthy. BTW - the court was becoming staffed by Eunuchs but I can't remember when that started. It started long before Islamic caliphs used them in the Harem. Commodus's he-man act may actually be a reaction to that "oriental despotism" Gibbon decries over and over again.

[@jforozco12]

Interesting interpretation!

[@stephanpollard1794]

thank you for posting this- My all time favorite podcast series eva

[@ageofechochambers9469]

These dont look Aryan to me .

[@808_rafa]

1:40:00

[@bluewizzard8843]

Commudus really was one of the most pathetic emperors ever. Caligula and Nero would have been jealous.

[@phantomwolf5468]

Septimius Severus, one of my all time favorite Emperors

[@Kyle_Schaff]

Can you explain more? If it’s way more work than you’d be willing to type for a random KZbin reply, I’ll 100% understand

[@phantomwolf5468]

@@Kyle_Schaff Yes, Septimius showed A lot of vigor and determination to use his position as governor to swiftly and efficiently march his legion south, replace the praetorian guard and take the empire for him self. I also love the way he Systematically defeated Niger and Albinus. Great great stuff would make a great movie. Not to crazy about his sons😂

[@jaynesegman7847]

he shouldn't have killed a big cat and wrapped it around him, tying its paws. disgusting.

[@70snostalgia]

E-Quite? E-Qui-tay!!

[@idiokrat]

Hearing anglos pronounce latin is partly amusing, partly annoying, as sometimes it makes it quite hard to understand. Seems as their rule goes like: I'm pronouncing everything like it's english.

[@Alberto-ny7kf]

i hope your pronounciation of foreign languages is perfect too

[@idiokrat]

@@Alberto-ny7kf Speaking German, English, French, Italian with quite acceptable pronunciation. Doing a series about Roman history it would help to get into Latin pronunciation to avoid butchering it, don't you think?

[@aasifazimabadi786]

@@idiokrat I don't know. I heard some KZbinr named "Whatifalthist" render Cincinnatus (519-430 BC) as "Kinky Natus" a couple of weeks back, and it made a significant proportion of his half a million or so subscribers break out in laughter. I should know. Read some of the top comments on his "America is the New Rome" and you'll come to understand what I am talking about. Rudyard Lynch (Whatifalthist's actual name) was technically giving the Roman patrician, statesman, and military leader of the early Roman Republic the correct pronunciation Latin name. Imagine, however, if we started calling the place in Ohio "Kinky Natty," well... this is the risk taken with insisting on prudence over practicality.

[@elagabalusrex390]

Do your pearls pinch the back of your neck when you clutch them?

[@Figgy_Jub]

Commodus is easily on my top ten worst people to live list. There’s literally not a single good thing about him, nothing redeeming… at all

[@ebe7840]

🎯❤🇸🇪

[@casparcoaster1936]

Original Praetorians were an officer's senate, who ended up with the original senate's power. The new one, were for real.

[@michaelr3583]

30:30 He said midgets. Thats it, he's cancelled.

[@2msvalkyrie529]

You mean as in : Snow White and the Seven People of Restricted Growth ?

[@michaelr3583]

@@2msvalkyrie529 😂

[@RomanHistoryFan476AD]

Commodus Alone could not have killed the empire, no it was his bad successors who kept ignoring the troubles of the empire and focused only on there own desires and needs. If after commodus a string of good rulers or even ok leaders took over the empire might have been in better shape and survived for a longer period. Commudus one spoiled emperor alone would not kill a superpower like Rome but a constant stream of bad apples would and nearly did bring the empire to it's end. Thank god some competence finally got hold of the helm again for a while.

[@dantecaputo2629]

Septimius Severus was competent enough. His sons were awful though.

[@RomanHistoryFan476AD]

@@dantecaputo2629 oh yeah forgot about him.

[@noodlecoffee193]

Pertinax might have fixed the empire to some extent, but he didn’t have enough time to because he was killed by the Praetorians.

[@matthewrobinson2474]

Rome's critical failure was no codified succession.

[@tatik9318]

Look I respect your work and have listened to almost all of your history of Rome shows but you fall like most all of historians with biased views like comudus for example first you said 12 years rule check X that out it was 18 glorious years 18 glorious years and he made free men and women powerful and being so beautiful 😍 strong 💪 and egocentric that’s what got him kill

[@Jalil8171]

You might be schizophrenic

[@Nonamearisto]

Even with the best men in Rome, we're only talking about a few thousand men at most. And not all of them would have been from the Danube, Rhine, or the Persian frontier. It wouldn't have made a difference.

[@RomanHistoryFan476AD]

you'll be surprised what a few thousand well trained and equipped men can achieve against even terrible odds. watling street for example and Caeser in gaul. Remember a lot of these tribes were elder, women and children not all of them were male warriors. a lot were just simple people.

[@R.D.B2942]

commically late reply I know, but septimius' new praetorian guard was numbered fifteen thousand, and that doesent include his enlargment of the urban cohorts. pretty damaging to take so many of the best troops from the army

[@incompetentobjectivist3850]

After the last three Presidents, a crack den is a step up from the White House!

[@paulrosa6173]

Commodus claiming he was the reincarnation of Hercules, as I understand it the most popular of the ancient heroes or demigods, because life required so much brute labor, was very close to Jesus claiming he was the "son of God". The Catholic Church would later call this kind of thinking "simpliciter" because there were a few instances, apparently, in Catholic life of people who thought they were reincarnations of Christ. The founder of the Shaker movement in this country, Mother Ann Lee, claimed she was the incarnation of Christ. She founded a beautiful and very responsible sect of believers known as the Shakers. Simpliciter isn't exactly crazy, just a mental and emotional shortcut. The cause of the Teiping (sp?) rebellion in China, during the mid 19th century also claimed he was the incarnation of Jesus Christ. He is one of the reasons the Falun Gong movement was so put down by modern Chinese authorities. Or at least I think that's the reason. This is where an appreciation for the writing of Carl Jung is a great help. People in the Roman empire didn't have the benefit of hindsight and so many of them came from cultures that were used to kings as Gods. Think of the Liz Taylor's Cleopatra and how she dies. "the last of so divine a race" or words to that effect and it sounds beautiful. I think it's Shakespeare. Actually , she was a Ptolemy but the Gods are catchy. A lot of the common people, not the most educated and sophisticated senators who had a lot more Greek rationalism in their heads, would not have found Commodus's claim so silly. They may have identified with it the way Trump gets people to think, they can be a millionaire too! I think that's called being "numinous". So many of us think with our emotions and that's what Commodus is playing too. I find it hard to believe that Commodus didn't know he was playing to that common man. If his father was so brilliant, wouldn't that have also been catchy too, or even "in the genes"? You have to think, or suspect, the upper class was the best the times could grow, somehow. . .

[@georgeokoro1149]

Except, Jesus didn’t have to kill people to prove his point.

[@paulrosa6173]

@@georgeokoro1149 he didn't have to. He was crucified before he could have been forced to occupy a position of authority. It saved his reputation. When the Church, acting in his name had a more symbiotic relationship with the state the act of excommunication destroyed the person spiritually, economically, and socially/politically. The civil authorities would finish the job with execution and the blessing, of the church. In a sense it was Pontius Pilate in reverse. They washed their hands of the matter. And Christians tend to think Pilate was such a hypocrite? And don't try to say - well that was the damned catholic church because without the carrier wave of the Church and the Roman empire there would be no coherent Christian texts to begin with. Constantine sponsored and paid for the first coherent texts. BTW - the original Holocaust of the Hebrews was restricted to livestock. The Church and/or civil authorities used it to burn human beings alive. To give Jesus the benefit of the doubt, the appetite for cruelty arose from the general population. Most lived short, ignorant and brutal lives. I strongly recommend you read Carl Jung's Answer to Job. It's a very subtle and difficult book but he tries to explains in psychological terms that the crucifixion is actually God making up for past failings - his own! Ironically it doesn't make an atheist out of the reader. You just can't get too simple minded or smug about the faith. .

[@dominicp9296]

It's actually disgusting how low the pratorians fell. If I became a emperor I would enter office and had every single one killed. Then promoted a legion or so to the new guards. They were absolutely untrustworthy whatever happened to the Roman honor really died out lol

[@Ratty2480]

you sound like black pidgeon

[@JoseFernandez-qt8hm]

in debt, like the DEMOcRATS....

[@aperson5135]

FIRST kek actually care tho

[@aperson5135]

now time to watch

[@aperson5135]

just a note it was to stop the fakers

[@memeb7325]

Ronnie Johnson

[@joshjenkins004]

you talk to yourself you fucking wacko

[@vernedavis5856]

these famous&infamous historical people,in name alone,generated some of the greatest movies of all time,while movies&characters within,being totally fiction. v.w.davis

[@dougiee6589]

in a 3 way power grsb its always me me me first hehehe

[@satan6169]

Nice

[@Pietro-Smusi]

1:03:52

[@Viktors633]

1:16:00