Roman History 25 - Carus To Diocletian 282-292 AD

This is from the podcast series The History Of Rome by Mike Duncan.
He currently does The Revolutions podcast.
www.revolutionspodcast.com/

[@MrFenris7]

Mike Duncan makes learning The History of Rome very interesting. Ive listened to the whole thing going on 3 times and I learn new facts every time! Mr Duncan should be a professor at a College! This is by far one of the BESTpod casts Ive listened to! What a Gift!

[@darthanddedeu2580]

@Frederick not to mention, if you've checked out his books and revolutions podcast, teaching and office hours would cut into his research time. From my experience most history profs have just given up on the reaserch end of things, just want their views regurgitated. As much as Duncan's reliance on Gibbons he treats that work as a jumping off point and doesn't allow Gibbon's bias to seep in.

[@andrewpestotnik5495]

@@darthanddedeu2580 exactly. You teach the class the way the college wants you to teach it. Especially when it comes to history, its been washed by politics too much. I enjoyed my classes, but my teachers all told me to do my own research bc they couldn't teach what they wanted.

[@tommydurbin2188]

Oo

[@HVLLOWS1999]

@@darthanddedeu2580 I like Duncan's Revulotions so far I've seen only the French Revolution because it's the most juicy I feel, I'll get to the other ones. I've listened to the HOR podcast 3 times now as well. Everytime I go back just to recap on one part I end up just listening to the whole thing again its addicting. History of

[@HVLLOWS1999]

@@darthanddedeu2580 Oh and Darth Krayt is my favorite. He is the One Sith, there is no other!

[@geordiejones5618]

Diocletian is just as much the father of Europe as Charlesmagne. He set the standard and precedent of society into the industrial age.

[@DDAWGY1]

except after his death 500 years of shit happened.... After the death of Charlesmagne all kings after him used him as a judge as to if they are a just and wise king. So in my opinion Diocletian was a great ruler but Charlesmagne was German and the "Holy roman empire" was all German as far as the Emporers and soldiers 98% German as well so they would not remember an italian damn near 700 years prior. And they ruled for the next 1000 years! And the biggest problem prior was the crazy German tribes, they were now employed and so no longer was the problem, but the answer.

[@joshportie]

@@DDAWGY1 Charlemagne was just a papal puppet. Another dictator of the catholic church not dissimilar to Castro or Hitler or Stalin (who literally learned Marxism at a Jesuit seminary).

[@joshportie]

@@DDAWGY1 both were mass murderers of Christians (not catholics)

[@niccoarcadia4179]

@@DDAWGY1 Maybe they were the answer all along. They were considered barbarians in the old days and never given a chance. Some of the tribes along the Rhine river took on Roman ways and fought in the Roman army. They became useful as auxiliary soldiers. Eventually they became THE Roman army. The Franks were good soldiers.

[@rancidcrawfish]

​@@DDAWGY1 someone using the name of arminius saying the German was better. Shocker

[@jamiecooper8207]

This is from a podcast. It's called the history of rome by mike duncan. I would highly recommend it. From the 7 kings to the fall of rome, every podcast as good as the next

[@-timaeus-9781]

Lol, Mike is great. I literally say it's from his podcast in the comments of every video and have the link to his page in the description of all the videos. :)

[@sugarnads]

We know. Timaeus knows. Everyone knows.

[@colonelcarrillo5131]

"Or if he should be struck down by a bolt of lightening, then I'm going to blame some of the people in this room."

[@Gatorsguy92]

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Godfather, meeting of the five families after Michael flees, right?

[@colonelcarrillo5131]

Right lol

[@dannyl7969]

Colonel Carrillo And that i shall not forgive

[@jerseymusicman3332]

Don’t wanna stray too far off that righteous path...

[@CK-ik5vd]

the whole series is awesome

[@70galaxie]

.....500,000 before he retired" I was shocked when you said retired.

[@earlefrost5512]

There's no cowbell at all... sigh. That said, this series is EPIC!!!!

[@incompetentobjectivist3850]

Cowbells suck!

[@Whurlpuul]

More cowbell

[@milpoolvanhouten1260]

Yeah baby, I was just about to have to listen to something else :). Thanks for this whole thing, it is awesome

[@-timaeus-9781]

Cool, thanks for watching :)

[@cmetelski681]

Bu f

[@jeremypratt1454]

I think calling himself Jupiter and spreading on other names for the hierarchy was just to show of valerian tradition that he wanted to keep going to make sure that everyone was in line with what he was doing

[@sesameshortcuts5691]

A wonderful podcast

[@elnebraskense9904]

Diocletian is under appreciated.

[@skeletalbassman1028]

Diocletian started the process of serfdom in Europe, leading to the feudalism of the middle ages. Really was a brute in many ways.

[@steffenthefrisian62]

You cannot overstate the change his reign made not only in the Roman Empire but the entire world.

[@theskycavedin9592]

A reform that changes the structure of life in the empire is brutish? That makes no sense. He was trying to stabilize the empire, not punish people. You're using the complete wrong word.

[@rudi_tabootie]

@@theskycavedin9592 Of course it makes sense. It may be the case that he wanted to reform the structure AND that these reforms were also brutal and oppressive. Doesn’t make him evil or anything, it is what it is.

[@Hakagure]

​@rudi_tabootie how were they brutal?

[@paulrosa6173]

I find it easy to believe that Diocletion would have humiliated the defeated general. The surviving arts may be a bit classier than the men were. You can think of them as having the personalities of mafia king pins. I'll bet they weren't very different by his time and the more refined classical Greek eduction was becoming a thing of the past. The civilized greek philospohy and cultire may have taken a steep dive. Maybe even the wealthy were having a hard time sending their sons to centers of Greek learning although I understand Naples remained one of the last centers of higher culture until about the 800s. That's another of those tid bits I can't remember where I read it, but I think Mr. Duncan is forgetting how tough life was really becoming. To support the idea that even the wealthy may have sunk from their foremr status, when the last of the Gordions died, that must have meant their property was confiscated by the state too? And the fact that the history is so sketchy may mean that there were no longer any really stable families or writers capable of keeping good records? The first Gordion was incredibly wealthy according to Gibbon and when he, his son and grandson? died. That may have been the end of the line for the whole dynasty, and his huge library? Every able bodied man seems to have been sucked up into the army. The roman's have to work so hard by this era to keep things together it had to have been the cause for neglect of all the refinements of civilized life, and thinking just ahead - of neglect of some the vital needs like agriculture and other non war related industries. It sounds like, inspite of the fact the the borders may have been resetablished, militray discipline was strong and the armies were large, all these moves are really a death rattle and the empire the reforms and administrative improvemnets were meant to save was actually slower, poorer and more ignorant inspite of them. They wanted to maintain that image of being in control but the edifice was falling apart in spite of it all. Christianity may have been spreading rapidly because their present world was less and less something that provides any hope or promiss. BTW. One side of my family tree sprang, or managed to escape, from Naples at the turn of the 20th century. It was always a rough neighborhood and Vesuvius could always blow it's stack. If you wanted to be a castrato, to keep that higher voice that was so fashionable and loved for some religious and popular music, the only place you could get the operation was in Naples until Napoleon outlawed the practice in the early 19th century. A lot of boys would try to preserve their prepubescent voice so they had a chance at fortune and fame working for the Vatican or other church choirs or even singing at large in the courts of Europe. But only about one in 10, apparently, ever really hit it big. And many died from opium overdoses from the process. I visited a cousin in the late 90s who retired from the American naval base in Naples, and there were three arenas in that area alone. If you scour the area with google earth you can pick out the ovals just south of the city center in the Potzuoli area. That was alot of blood and barbeque in the classical era. The arenas mean something. That there were many men willing to brush with suicide just to make a better life than was the rule and that rule provided only a subsistance living most of the time even in the good times of the classical period.

[@ttacking_you]

This is true😌

[@strykermoonfall2220]

Subscribed.

[@HVLLOWS1999]

Diocletian The Cabbage King.

[@paulrosa6173]

Just because a pattern like the wicked step mother or the jilted lover seems so common it can be called a trope, doesn't mean people weren't acting according to the pattern. The whole history of Rome from beginning to end looks like a trope too. How many role moels did they have to pick from? I'll bet people were often dismally predictable. One man gets too much power and everyone gets nervous and starts to plot against him. The man with too much power gets paranoid and starts to defend himself with purges and counter assassinations. The plotters really get nervous and kill the paranoid assassin with too much power. Senate then appoints a new man and the cycle resumes. If he was so bad and they want to forget him, they damn his memory. If he had somemthing usefull for the future they deify him. It's enough to make a Buddhist out of you (they probably had a few but it didn't go well with the emotional climate). They knew about the Hindus' but thought it was a form of gymnatiscs. And the Roman's knew the pattern but couldn't seem to get beyond it. The Catholic Chrch still uses the pattern of beatification the way the Senate used the deification process. The Church dropped the damnatio rites with the separation of church and state (but refuse to mention the name of the man who smashed th Pieta) or I think that is why we don't hear that kind of talk from most mainstream churches except from Westboro Baptist church types. That family business had strong opinions about heaven and hell and who was going to go there. What a bunch of vicious amateurs. The Medicis loved the new learning from the ME and started the revival of Roman intellectual and artistic life again in a smallish city and they pick up the trope like it was an infection again. Charismatic and hyper wealthy Lorenzo caused the family city mansion to be sacked three times in his lifetime until one of their later generations, Cosimo I, finds himself the late Renaissance equivalent of Augustus. It isn't just the Italians either but they seem to have liked the pattern better than anyone. Maybe it's all those MAGA-nificent ruins? People aren't really all that different today. We have people magazine for lessons in tropes, sometimes. And the tabloids are just stuffed with them. And the modern world never does damnatio memoriae effectively either. Those folks are usually the most interesting characters in history. And even the romans seem to have been ambivalent about the knick knacks and goodies the bad one's collected. They left Nero's statue standing for almost 200 years and Caligula's pleasure boats had a latter life too. Lady Messalina ordered renovations and even Nero had it moved up to his lake in Rome. They hated the man but loved his whatnots.

[@paulrosa6173]

Why is Numerian's rotting corpse in a litter "preposterous on a number of levels"? Aper couldn't have gotten away with it for more than a few days but Nero embalmed Poppea and kept her corpse Evita like? maybe he wasn't finished being important or stealing something? Caligula may have kept Tiberius' death a secret according to the movies. There was even one episode, how far back, where another emperor's death was kept a secret until the court was ready to announce another. I already can't remember which one. Since so much of this history is so sketchy, can't we amateurs keep a few Addams family stories for color and the aroma di Roma?

[@dominicp9296]

That was the first episode and it was a king not a emperor unless I missed the emperor one or forgot about it. But I do remember that happening with the kings

[@paulrosa6173]

@@dominicp9296 _ I haven' I haven't looked at this series for almost two years. What a mess of spelling errors (and typos) in the comments I was making. .I don't know what happened to the spell check? I tended to write between episodes of working on something else. I edited them just now. Part of the problem is my eyesight. The old Romans sounded so like ruthless Mafiosi I find it easy to believe the Numerian story. In spite of my comments, I think Mike Duncan's review of the history is so much better than an HBO series I saw years ago and I should probably just listen. But when does one get a chance to talk about this history in everyday conversation? .

[@mustacheman2549]

delusional ramblings

[@paulrosa6173]

@@mustacheman2549 - What's so delusional about them? Please explain.

[@LordZebra]

​​@@paulrosa6173ou need to sum up ur point. You give off a unhinged vibe with long winded posts. See how I got my point across without a essay

[@EverythingNetwork1]

can we get one more roman episode my favorite time is coming up ...pleeeease im outta town and it sucks...i need another roman episode

[@-timaeus-9781]

Is you favorite time period that of Constantine? The next episode is about the beginning of the Tetrarchy and 27 & 28 are about Constantine. After that it's the downward spiral to 476. About 12 episodes left in this series.

[@EverythingNetwork1]

i like to hear about how Diocletian set every thing up...nobody really explains it..they jyst want to get to Constantine...and i cannot wait to hear about stilicho and aetius...my mom just died and these keep me goin...can u please upload ..that would get me thru this stressful night....Thanks Amy

[@starlight7834]

CoveringTheBasics lol

[@starlight7834]

TheMrTease thank you very much!

[@kingmaegor5297]

Bahram II was the grandson of Shapur through his son Bahram I. Plus the Sassanid Empire was going through a religious persecution of its own that weakened it

[@70galaxie]

Eternal peace, 8yrs, Hawking would be proud.

[@metacomet2066]

Just curious... many times in this episode and others I can hear something odd in the background, like an owl or something?

[@incompetentobjectivist3850]

Minerva!

[@jimtaggert42]

i hear it too

[@Paddythelaad]

There were Roman emperors that claimed to be divinely appointed before Diocletian, Lucius Aelius Aurelius Commodus Augustus Herculeus Romanus Exsuperatorius Amazonius Invictus Felix Pius, for example. Who knows what that god emperor would have achieved had his sister not tried to have him & his lover killed with such a distrusting plot so early into his reign, he had already done the most important initial steps better than any. Early Commodus had pleased the soldiers & the people more than any, quicker than any before, his sister & the senate didn't let his godlike master plan much better than Diocletian's, come to fruition. But they tolerated illegitimate Hadrians bs when he didn't even have the courage to appoint glorious Commodus' father to power when he was in his prime.

[@yazanasad7811]

Eddges of Rome as military provinces while soft centre as economic enginee

[@EverythingNetwork1]

No i want to hear about the 4 emperors and the six emperors..the time of Daia and Galerius and the gang ...please can u upload

[@-timaeus-9781]

That's what the Tetrarchy is friend.

[@EverythingNetwork1]

yes , I know...Thank u...if u have a certain upload schedule i don t know ...but if u do can u upload it for alteast 2 hours (Smiley Face)

[@robertgiles9124]

@@EverythingNetwork1 Can u STFU? (Smiley face)

[@chriszablocki2460]

Barbarians vs Roman state? Let me get some popcorn.

[@chriszablocki2460]

🍿

[@chriszablocki2460]

🤢

[@jeremypratt1454]

I love the name of the emperor he actually did something smart he realized he couldn't run the emperor like he was God he had to be a man and a soldier and he did it right

[@markgardner4426]

Aper does not mean "ass", it means "boar". Asinus was Latin for "ass". Good documentary otherwise.

[@sugarnads]

He LITERALLY corrected his brainfart in the very next cast.

[@808_rafa]

1:38:00

[@violetrose415]

1:39:52

[@violetrose415]

24:33

[@Kyle_Schaff]

18:33

[@JamesMartinelli-jr9mh]

Defense in depth. Good strategy for the Confederate States of America.

[@808_rafa]

Diocletian best Princeps ... or rather- Dominus

[@goodsolonius7305]

Why do you keep using logic to construct reasonable narratives that aren’t outright admitted by the official sources? Isn’t that being a little too much of a “conspiracy theorist?”

[@seannthompson9571]

Why dont you be specific

[@bcvetkov8534]

Diocletian sounds very familiar....... DIOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[@deoglemnaco7025]

If it wasn’t for firearms, Claudius would have lived longer

[@BRTowe]

Huh?

[@deoglemnaco7025]

@@BRTowe if it wasn’t for firearms, Claudius would have lived longer

[@alexanderledvina8743]

Why would you call the getting power from gods an advancement in political theory? That's what gave kings from all the way to the beginning of written history. At least deriving power from the Senate pretends to be representative government. This would be degeneration in political theory to me.

[@alclay8689]

It was "advancement" in the sense we use "progressive" today- moving ahead with the times

[@alexanderledvina8743]

@@alclay8689 yeah, both are regressive and degenerate.

[@karlkfoury2213]

@@alexanderledvina8743 diocletian didnt just say god gave me power and called it a day. Did you listen to the same podcast we listened to?

[@williamhagen2792]

B O R U N G.

[@ronaldbailey8310]

bahram the First father of Bahram the second

[@vladalex2177]

Roma Victor

[@CaptainGrimes1]

Roma Victoria *

[@joshuasmith5289]

O

[@violetrose415]

1:44:55

[@violetrose415]

1:13:00