Romulans Had No Problem with A.I in Voyager / TNG Unlike in Star Trek Picard

[@gwilym1991]

I could imagine the Klingons take this stance on AI but the Romulans? They're never one to pass over an advantage.

[@MauR1CEnl]

True, i think the klingon see no honor in ai etc.

[@Dirtfire]

@@MauR1CEnl I think they would find holodecks very useful. they probably did use them, but I don't know enough about Star Trek to know. Kirk and his crew used them, so they've been around a while.

[@GetterRay]

@@Dirtfire Archer introduced them to holodeck tech and in DS9 they use it for training/recreation. And by recreation I mean killing.

[@Patriotgal1]

Maybe the Roms were smart enough to see the dangers of AI? They seem like a pretty sharp species, and they are keen on self-preservation, which humanity is not.

[@gwilym1991]

@@Patriotgal1 that's roughly like saying because you see the dangers of micro organisms you're not going to study micro organisms at all. It's a dumb stance.

[@isegrim1978]

This is when you notice that Star Trek Online is more faithful to the lore than all this new stuff.

[@Lightwrath1994]

they are more accurate to a brighter and still darker Age of Trek... more War but still... more hope! Thats what Trek is about.. a brighter future!

[@Lightwrath1994]

@Rex makepeace if u dislike playing it, then maybe just watch some videos about it ^^

[@numberyellow]

@@Lightwrath1994 That's what i'd recommend. The game used to be at least decent, but over the years, it's turned to overly complicated shit. And for those of you who might question if i ever played it, i pre-ordered it, and hold a lifetime sub.. u can't get those anymore. The writing is still pretty good, but it's absolutely no fun to play anymore....at least for me.

[@Zeemis]

Be happy you get "new stuff" at all my dude, we haven't really gotten a new prime universe show in like what, 20 years?

[@isegrim1978]

@@Zeemis So, basically, accept the crap we feed you and be happy about it?

[@michaeljames4904]

_”Our computers are limited to solely numerical functions.”_ So they’re computers then.

[@bengrogan9710]

Not quite: it misses a part of Trek lore Federation computer systems are "Isolinear Circuitry" in universe - They are essentially synthetic brain tissue, fed by synthetic gel packs, and so can adapt all components to any task with time What she is saying is that Romulan Computers are still "Duotronic" meaning that their computers have discrete components, eg as we would understand them actual separate processing cores

[@jackalenterprisesofohio]

@@bengrogan9710 so bascily they are still....this stuff......we are using right now?

[@bengrogan9710]

@@jackalenterprisesofohio essentially, but with more steps

[@AndrooUK]

Even standard AI is purely numerical, and uses normal 'computers'. For the complexity of all the shit they get them to do, they would be stuffed full of at least AI, and possibly have to all use AGIs for the stuff these computers can manage, unless they have very complex AIs.

[@happyplaceforever101]

It's almost like they just wanted to insert the Romulans into the Data/android storyline and had no idea how to do it right.

[@Kit_Kat_Catastrophe]

They don't have any idea how to do anything right...

[@BlazingOwnager]

You know a far, far more interesting plot would have been if the Romulans recovered enough of data (and not just the two neuron thing.. Jesus) that they were able to use Borg technology to basically turn the cube into an android factory and actually try to use the androids in some nefarious plot and/or slave labor. Then in traditional Trek fashion, the heroes work not to just destroy the androids but liberate them from the Romulans. If you want Star Fleet being assholes that don't want to help, just have them hide behind the prime directive thing (i.e. 'We can't tell another culture how to treat their androids'), which also gives Picard a reason to get involved as having been a defender of their rights. Instead of .. this.

[@Koshiro2k3]

@@BlazingOwnager This is - by *far* - a better story pitch than the actual show's and in fact than the TNG movies' as well. So I guess there is an answer to the question "Who would come with a better ST story idea? An experienced team of writers and producers with input from the show's main star? Or one youtube boi?"

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@Koshiro2k3 Nah, his idea is merely using aliens as 100% the bad guys and all the conflict coming from them instead of flawed human characters

[@DrTechnoBabel]

@@ShadowSonic2 Well that's an easy issue to fix. Go with the slave labor idea, and have the reasoning for the Romulans doing it be that they are using android labor to help rebuild their fractured empire since the Federation won't help them, and taking that slave labor away would set back their reconstruction efforts by decades, possibly even centuries. That gives the Romulans a somewhat sympathetic reason for their actions, and adds a layer of moral ambiguity to the whole situation: is liberating artificial life just if doing so would prolong the suffering of their creators?

[@sargon6000]

The hostile and conqueror Romulan Empire not using/studying cybernetics or artificial intelligence, while surrounded by hundreds of alien species that do, it would be like the Soviet Union not pursuing nuclear weapons/technology while surrounded by hostile powers that do.

[@ThePilot3332]

It would be like Japan refusing to research gunpowder, oh wait, that's totally what they did. And it clearly didn't help them.

[@danmanx2]

Very good analogy!

[@ShadowSonic2]

The Feds were the only ones with anything resembling successful AI, though.

[@ThePilot3332]

@Lady Wanderer they used guns, yes, but the shogun banned any further research as well as importing newer guns (which is why they were so behind in the 19th century)

[@Johnny-rx4hs]

@@ThePilot3332 It sure helped them against the Chinese and Russians.

[@jcassokh]

Don't forget about when the Romulans mind-controlled Geordi through his cybernetic implants. Complete absence.

[@Raja1938]

How was that A.I.?

[@platiuscyndar9017]

@@Raja1938 it was cybernetics.

[@ayanithtalreign]

Man/machine interface requires enormous understanding of how electronics can send/receive signals to the brain. Understanding that is the first step to mapping the brain to a digital format or recreating neurons using bio-mechanical means, or a positronic matrix like with Data. Soong was not just a cyberneticist, he also was and advanced study of biology.

[@therabbits69]

Now you are just stretching. This entire video is a fucking joke and doens't understand anything about what it actually was.

[@InfernosReaper]

@@therabbits69 Nah, it's not really too far off. The sweeping concrete statements made in Picard that are contradicted by previous iterations of Trek are hard to ignore. The fact that there are Romulans, not Vulcans, separating people from the Borg cybernetics in the same show make it seem like the writers just don't know what the hell they're doing.

[@dcipawn]

Ahhh. The show where Picard is always being yelled at by everyone.

[@williamfazey2217]

Long days and pleasant nights stranger!

[@wayfaringshaman]

He was being yelled at because he had somehow become the exemplar of another time, a time when people were more hopeful, optimistic, and always strove to better themselves. But that time had passed, now is the time for demands and assertions, and as is the case with the show's creators, the wisdom of clowns and watered-down drugs and "vapes." Today is all about yelling at the wise man, "I'm better than you," simply because they think they've seen more "stuff" today than the wise man of old who actually has too many important things to say. But today, no one wants to hear wisdom when they've got all those "memes" (which, literally, still means nothing). Yes, we've got all this technology, privilege, and ease of access to everything, but it's the worst time to live in. I should be ready to kill myself any day now.

[@flyingfireballmaster1816]

@@wayfaringshaman Meh. Every other time looks pretty garbage to me too. Disease, bigotry, and even many aspects of pollution were much worse in previous generations.

[@SaulGoodman3D2049]

@@wayfaringshaman “Children; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. They no longer rise when elders enter the room, they contradict their parents and tyrannize their teachers. Children are now tyrants.” - Socrates, 400 BC

[@ladyprimrose4533]

@@wayfaringshaman These are hard and decadent times, but there's always something worth living for. I hope you find it and live healthy and blissful life.

[@takerdust]

"we wrote a shitty generic Sci FI script that takes place in a dystopian world. Let's shoehorn it into the lucrative Star Trek franchise".

[@elinsto52]

"Damn boys, have you heard of Mass Effect 3? It's got the greatest twist ending I've ever seen and we should make a show out of it"

[@cleanerben9636]

@@elinsto52 I hate being reminded of that shitty ending.

[@professorzoom8277]

Indeed. Sadly

[@ShadowSonic2]

Nah, this was in line with prior Trek. Despite Major Grin showing poorly done clips as evidence otherwise

[@grayfiresoul]

@@ShadowSonic2 Hey Shill, who's paying you? This particular video really seems to be worth your time.

[@Koshiro2k3]

It also should be pointed out that housekeeper-special-agent-lady claims that Romulan computers are limited to "purely numerical functions", whatever that is supposed to mean, then goes and explains advanced computer heuristics to Picard in her next scene (the one where they are magically reconstructing the events in Daj's apartment.)

[@DarkNova50]

Clearly the Romulans are all dark space wizards.

[@KasumiKenshirou]

The good Star Trek shows hired science advisors. The current writers just copy things they've heard smart people say on other TV shows without understanding what they mean.

[@kshadehyaena]

I think she means that they operate like our current-day ones. I also think the writers believe that true AI can not work within the binary system. Don't ask me why.

[@Koshiro2k3]

@Lady Wanderer It's also interesting that apparently, Picard's housekeepers are the only ones among billions of Romulans who for some reason don't share this deeply rooted fear and loathing of AI.

[@JeroenDStout]

@Lady Wanderer On some level its almost admirable how internally inconsistent ST:Picard actually is.

[@memphis7742]

In "The Mind's Eye", the Romulans were using a holodeck aboard one of their warbirds to test Geordi La Forge's ability to carry out their assassination orders. They were using holographic characters programmed with artificial intelligence.

[@fallinginthed33p]

ST:P showrunners forgot to watch that episode. I bet they didn't watch the entire TNG either.

[@AzguardMike]

Wasnt ST-p written and directed by Frakes and Stewart?

[@NicksNameGoesHere]

I remember when the Romulans were a race that wasn't that different from ours, and they made compelling villains because they had clear and relatable motives. Now they're some kind of exotic space-Asian culture with strange traditions and nonsensical backstory. It's a wonder they even made it into space when they're not busy grooming space bonsai plants or hiding behind fake doors.

[@perturabo420]

They are named Romulans. They are a literal space paralel to Romans and their rampant imperialism, expansionism and xenophobia. I wonder how idiotic one has to be to turn them into space Asians.

[@BoleDaPole]

They're basically a stand-in for the USSR/China

[@Alamandorious]

What makes it even funnier is that they had a lot of similarities with Roman culture, as opposed to what STP made them.

[@jamesboulger8705]

I think a case can be made that they are really chafing from being forced to work within preexisting IP, but that is all the industry will gamble on anymore. Everyone loses. Everyone's the victim.

[@eeaotly]

I wanted to give you a like but then I have changed my mind because I don't want to ruin the balance of that magical number of 222 likes you already have...

[@rexfort]

The Federation has always been at war with Oceania and the Romulans have always been at war with the androids.

[@josephmayfield945]

Great comment.

[@MatthewSchellenberg]

Anyone who thinks differently is guilty of a thought crime! err, I mean, doesn't like diversity or something...

[@woodwyrm]

The party's final, and most severe command.

[@danmanx2]

You know, it's almost like the creators of Star Trek Picard and Discovery had never seen or read a script of one episode of Star Trek.

[@ShadowSonic2]

They had, Major Grin thinks showing out if content clips means something

[@frosty848]

@@ShadowSonic2 You mean evidence showing the writers don't know shit about star trek? ya sure means nothing...

[@grayfiresoul]

@@ShadowSonic2 They seem pretty in-context to me. That's sort of the whole point to, you know, show the incongruity and lazy revisionism by using context...

[@OneofInfinity.]

The "writers" might have seen some episodes but not really watched them, they have no talent are greedy and don't understand Star Trek besides for making quick cash with false nostalgia, also don't forget to sub to CBS just to be disappointed.

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@frosty848 Nope, just Grin showing things out of context to support his Agenda

[@Stinger913]

Major Grin, you forget that the Romulans created an entire drone ship in Enterprise. Though it had a real living operator, all of our other drones in real life do too. They made an entire starship a drone. And they say in Picard there are no Romulan advances in robotics.

[@NitpickingNerd]

Well because they were controlling it from afar there was no evidence of an AI controlling it

[@cleanerben9636]

No, but there was cybernetics involved to get the Vulcan minister to pilot it and accept commands.

[@greengreeneya2102]

@@NitpickingNerd Also Holograms are sentient artificial life forms. They are run by computer.

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@greengreeneya2102 They're not physical beings like androids

[@frosty848]

@@ShadowSonic2 Ya because we seen Holograms not be able to physically interact with the world around them..oh wait.

[@theamazinghippopotomonstro9942]

"We don't have androids or AI, we don't study cybernetics" "I know a host of romulan cyberneticists" 😂😂😂

[@LostieTrekieTechie]

I mean they did lose their homeworld, maybe all their cyberneticists lived in one place, or were at a conference when the supernova happened. Just... incredibly bad timing.

[@eeaotly]

@@LostieTrekieTechie And poor memory of their own species history. Not to mention an unexplainable complete change in their species mentality.

[@petrmaly9087]

@@LostieTrekieTechie Romulans had a star empire, the destruction of their main planet would harm them, but wouldn't do much to an entire branch of science. If you nuked Silicon Valley, it would harm the IT industry, but it wouldn't change the way we use IT in the rest of the world. In an evolved society, it is impossible to have all the knowledge and brain power behind an entire scientific field in one place. Even in a relatively ancient societies on earth, the destruction of a library was a harm to science, but it wasn't the end of it. The burning of library of Alexandria is seen as heavily devastating, but it didn't ruin unique documents as all of them had copies. The Romulans are based on Rome. Rome was abandoned as a capital of it's empire, it was sacked, it fell into ruin, the most luxurious districts became pastures for goats, in the forum, people were building primitive mud brick huts reinforced with fragments of ancient statues, but now, 1500 years later we still have their language, people can easily read it, science uses it, we have all the Roman technical knowledge and a huge chunk of it's literature. The high civilisations of ancient Americas were wiped out, only very few people survived and their culture was destroyed, but we still use pretty much everything they developed in terms of agriculture (peanut butter, Maze, potatoes in all it's variants, Llamas...).

[@evarjantz222]

My problem is how in Picard, his maid was like, "Have you ever noticed how the Romulans lack anything distinctly technological?" and I was like, "You guys have F*KN starships!!!!"

[@ClemensLode]

They are just farmers in space

[@robinhyperlord9053]

They have tech, just nothing AI/holographic based.

[@ValiantWrestling]

@Dr_Doctor English Colonialist.

[@Patchuchan]

Not just that they have starships powered by frigging quantum singularities. Also they used remote controlled drones and automated mines during the Earth Romulan war.

[@ShadowSonic2]

She was talking about androids, and only androids. Easy.

[@Tyrannicus]

See, I hate when new installments in a franchise make black and white sweeping statements. They had to write "the COMPLETE absence" instead of something that builds on the existing world like "a distinct abscence". She could have explained that the Zhat Vash has secretly hindered their own people in developing AI, but that explanation leaves open that some have pursued it anyway. One little word change to make it not so universal and it adds to world building not contradict it. Besides, if this Admonition is only known to the members of the secret society, then why would an average Romulan be repulsed by AI? Not to mention what we know about Romulan culture from Nemesis - new governments come into power frequently, abandoning the thinking of a previous one (hence Shinzon being tossed aside) so good luck getting all Romulans to hate AI without a reason.

[@BlazingOwnager]

The big problem is laziness. You could fix most of these problems just by having an Intern doing fact-check research for the writers while they write. Then they could change lines like this to something that works, like "Have you ever wondered why a ban was instituted 20 years ago.." or something to that effect. Make a new thing. Maybe the Romulans only found the magic clipart machine in the last two decades. It's not hard stuff to repair, if you care.

[@grast5150]

@@BlazingOwnager Dead on correct, The Kirtzman writing team did not want integrate. Their ideas were superior and as such nothing matters from the previous series or canon. Remember it just a bunch of Trekie's. They will watch anything and maybe can be educated....Ha

[@christopherwong9868]

@Tyrannicus I love specific, thoughtful critiques like yours. Reading and watching all the other black-and-white complaints (like this video from Major Grin) is quite painful.

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@BlazingOwnager Bull, you'd whine no matter what.

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@grast5150 No, they judt knew hardcore Trekkies would whine about everything they wrote no matter what.

[@elanderan1104]

3:12 "I know a host of romulan cyberneticists" >>> "We don't study cybernetics."

[@ShadowSonic2]

@Lady Wanderer They were curious about how to kill him, that's all

[@PaiSAMSEN]

@@ShadowSonic2 Yeah, because somehow that's the only thing cyberneticists interested in.

[@rashaudolson5654]

@@ShadowSonic2 You're reaching... really really hard.

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@PaiSAMSEN Those particular ones, yes.

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@rashaudolson5654 The one reaching is Major Grin.

[@coolhand889]

Every thing about the romulans in Picard is wrong an how does a fracture romulan empire somehow control a Borg cube when thay are refugees and a galactic power at the same time

[@MajorGrin]

I guess only some of them are refugees (the ones the Romulan government didn't bother to evacuate with their own fleet)

[@ahmataevo]

@Anders Herum - That one's all Patrick Stewart's fault.

[@fenrisvermundr2516]

@Anders Herum That is why I prefer Star Trek Online. They atleast establish that the Empire still exists though only because they managed to gain control of the few systems they still had, it was a power vacuum following the destruction of Romulus. Many Romulans and Remans managed to go into hiding on remote worlds where they began to establish new lives. In the Romulan Republic faction we get to see, and learn about one such group. STO manages to capture what Star Trek was about. It's not 100% but it's closer than ST:D and ST:P

[@ShadowSonic2]

@Anders Herum Oh grow up you crybaby. They made the future imperfect, deal with it.

[@rjframe4410]

STO covers this, Theres 2 romulan empires. Theres the remnants of the Tal shiar, and the Star empire refugees. The splinter group that hates AI is an off shoot of the tal Shiar. Zhat Vash is a group within a group within a group. Its basically This. If the normal folks are all of us, then the CIA would be the Tal Shiar, and the Zhat Vash would be a splinter group inside the CIA that hates something specific.

[@SofieHiyatsuki]

See all the new "Star trek" Shows were made without any care or thought of the old shows. They are trying to pander to a new crowd and throwing out the old fans

[@KonradTheWizzard]

The old shows did not care much about the older ones either. TOS even contradicts itself. Remember how early TOS has human and vulcan "merchants" (e.g. Trouble with Tribbles, Errand of Mercy), but then it turns out Earth and Vulcan don't have money...?

[@InfernosReaper]

They're not even pandering to a new crowd really, because it's hard to figure out who this new stuff is for in the first place. It's not like each new generation of humans are radically different from the previous ones, so the rules for good writing don't really change much...

[@InfernosReaper]

@@KonradTheWizzard The *Federation* doesn't deal with money, which really isn't established until TNG, which takes place after TOS. There might've actually been a transition period. Even if that was the case in during TOS, other species do, so some merchant stuff would still have to be done.

[@gimpytheimp]

@@KonradTheWizzard Trader doesn't mean they deal only in money. They could be literally trading their stock for other stock. It's the same way Voyager kept it's supplies running.

[@joefleming6755]

There are many Star Trek civilisations less fleshed out than the Romulans and just as cool that they could have gotten away with saying were Androidists.

[@BNuts]

Like the Undine (Species 8472). Similar to the Yuuzhan Vong of the Star Wars EU, all their ships are biological. Although the Undine don't share the Vong's outright distaste for machines.

[@ThePaulalv]

But "romulan" is one of the few Star Trek words that non Star Trek fans (as Kurtzman) know. They have to use it.

[@thehumanoddity]

@@BNuts Instead of an outright distaste for machines it's an outright distaste for everything.

[@ShadowSonic2]

They needed to tie this to what Trek 09 said about Romulans

[@BungieStudios]

@@BNuts Anyone that thinks the name Undine isn't Canon jerks off to Discovery and Picard and probably feeds lactose filled cheese to Porthos.

[@VideoSage]

I love Sir Patrick Stewart, but my goodness was Picard awful.

[@mrtappyasmr7702]

It was a complete disgrace to star trek. SJWs, introducing alcoholic and mental illnesses, spam adverts, swearing. None of this reflects the evolved nature of humanity which we saw all the time in other ST stories. Worst of Patrick Stewart sold us out and aligned himself with the progressives, and in doing so pissed on all of us and his prestigious ST acting career.

[@VictorythroughUnity59]

@@mrtappyasmr7702 I'd hate to admit that you're right... So I'll just be in the next room, re-watching TNG for the millionth time 🖖🏼☺️

[@mrtappyasmr7702]

@@VictorythroughUnity59 Remember the good times! Im running through DS9 and TNG clips most nights on KZbin.

[@VictorythroughUnity59]

@@mrtappyasmr7702 Get Netflix and you can watch ALLLL SEASONS of these and more, my fellow Treke

[@iTzNikkitty]

@@mrtappyasmr7702 Lol, Picard isn't bad because it's "progressive". It was actually far less progressive than the original Star Trek. Need I remind you that The Federation is essentially a communist utopia where things like currency and wealth accumulation don't exist.

[@develynseether4426]

The exact same thing happened with Nemesis. When it came to write the story Rick Berman and Brent Spiner got John Logan so frustrated, he was a huge trekkie and they kept getting details wrong (Spiner thought Remans were Andorians). This is why Discovery should NEVER have been allowed and Axanar should have! By the time you've made several shows only true fans are going to remember the right details and only the fans should get to write/direct/produce shows.

[@McKay1108]

Same in Star Wars, sadly. You can always spot which movies or shows were produced by real fans, and which are just cash-grabs that use a known franchise and run it into absurdity by being as clueless about the source material as they can possibly be. I mean this was literally Cavils point about the writers of Witcher. And look where that one went.

[@Swarm509]

You can take it too far with Fans, they may be too likely to either just do wish filament with stories/characters or not be opening to trying new things in the series (which fan would of made a Star Trek movie about whales?!?). The ideal is a good director/writer who is willing to watch/understand what went before, honour it, and keep things moving forward in interesting way. Hard as hell but it can happen.

[@Dac85]

Alex Kurtzman: sorry what I'm too busy over here writing about a ninja running around beheading people with a sword

[@snugglyhugs8698]

Honestly, that's the part that I thought was most plausible. If he had access to a personal-cloaking device that prevented others from finding him via sensors the use of a sword would make the most sense since an energy discharge would show up instantly on their internal sensor net. Firearms would be too loud, and any other energy weapon would show. The best option would be "Medieval" weapons as they're muscle powered. That means knives and short swords for assassination work.

[@animaamin3]

Geordi's line at the closing fit perfectly

[@Kit_Kat_Catastrophe]

Different universe....only reason I'd accept, but they insist on trying to shoehorn this trash into canon.

[@Yasuda9000]

A different universe does make more sense than saying that Star Trek Discovery and Picard are part of the Gene Roddenberry Star Trek. Just like with J.J. Abrams Star Trek, his movies are in another universe, and not in Gene Roddenberry Star Trek's past.

[@illustriouschin]

Why accept it?

[@CrankyGrandma]

I agree. I have no objection to an alt u darker Trek. In TNG “parallels “ we discovered there were many such universes very close to the original trek universe. Why not mine that idea for “different Trek”? But trying to force something so non Trek into the original universe in order to cash in on an established fan base will not win over said fan base. All of NuCBS Trek is not real trek

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@CrankyGrandma Oh grow up, you sound like the buffoons who whined when TNG itself started

[@thehantavirus]

@@Yasuda9000 discovery even misused words like prime universe.

[@kleanthisxanthopoulos9670]

This is what happens when; a) you have never seen any Star Trek before and b) you don't care to learn!

[@ShadowSonic2]

Oh grow up, to keep up with modern TV Trek needed internal conflict, sex, cursing, etc.

[@rashaudolson5654]

@@ShadowSonic2 And it didn't work. Picard is not a new resurgence of Trek fandom. Even if they announce a season 2... it doesn't matter. The project is dead in the water. There's not this new high-demand for Star Trek. It's literally become the Train Wreck You can't Look Away From.

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@rashaudolson5654 Bull, it was a success and S2 was announced.

[@rashaudolson5654]

@@ShadowSonic2 Other shows have gotten a second season greenlit despite success or failure in the past. We'll see. I'm not holding my breath. I'm certain of the comedy, however.

[@stevekillgore9272]

@@rashaudolson5654 fanboys will be fanboys

[@tcsmagicbox]

Both Discovery and Picard are alternate realities where the writers never watched Star Trek in their lives.

[@nuclearthreat545]

Its crazy that one youtuber can spot all of these and yet the people who were paid to write picard couldnt figure this shit out

[@braveintofuture]

"Our computers are limited to purely numerical functions" - you mean like a calculator? 1 + 1 = 2? Or what is that supposed to mean?

[@braveintofuture]

@Lady Wanderer I would assume computers in the 24th century are quantum computers, but they would work with numerical functions of cause. Maybe the positronic brains are a totally different thing?

[@FedoReds88]

Complex calculation, but not avoiding an AI to became sentient

[@KonradTheWizzard]

Let's throw in a bit of real computer science - shall we? Everything modern computers do is purely numerical. The entirety of Computer Science is built on the foundations of numerical theory (a branch of mathematics). Even Siri or Alexa or your super smart navigation device or the "magic" Google search engine perform purely numerical functions. They simulate text processing, voice recognition, image recognition and so on by performing mathematical transformations on long strings of numbers. As of yet it is completely unknown what is necessary to build a true A.I. like Data or Lore - we do not know whether it can be achieved numerically or whether it needs some magic "positronic brain" that does something else to work. So from today's point of view it is perfectly possible that A.I. hating Romulans do have 21st century style "AI", basically a bunch of heuristics stringed together, but no true AI that can think for itself. BTW: cybernetics is the study of control systems, not specifically the study of A.I. It just happens that today A.I. is usually studied as feedback control systems. The word just sounds cool when misapplied to futuristic concepts. ;) If you can just get yourself to ignore all those hundreds of inconsistencies and the bullshit techno-babble in ANY Star Trek show then you might realize that it is about the current human condition and it does actually do a very good job of holding a mirror to our faces. Sometimes it does this so uncomfortably close.... right?

[@demoniack81]

@@KonradTheWizzard The issue is that there is no reason to believe true AGIs cannot be achieved with "purely numerical" computers. Quantum computers may or may not help, but in the end it's just a matter of how much processing power you throw at it.

[@dobbsish]

@@KonradTheWizzard Not really. When was the modern world ever akin to the Federation? There is little point holding up a mirror to our faces if it doesn't explore how our world came to be. History didn't begin with the Romulan supernova, Martian massacre or some modern equivalent. Picard never explored how the federation had degenerated in to a slave owning society before either of these events happened although this was already becoming the case in Voyager's run.

[@crackwitz]

*"purely numerical functions"?* guess what state of the art neural networks are, *purely numerical*

[@ge2719]

Everything in the universe is numerical.

[@KonradTheWizzard]

@@ge2719 ...actually there are a lot of phenomena that cannot be adequately described numerically, some extreme examples: quantum mechanics, three body motion in astrophysics - they can be approximated with numerical methods, but not described.

[@deep.space.12]

@@KonradTheWizzard The word you are looking for is "analytical". These problems are well-described numerically.

[@comedyclub333]

Yeah but you have to bring the topic to people not knowing about technical stuff. Of course AI is numerical, but they clearly mean "Non-AI algorithms" in noob language. They also talk about cybernetics but they clearly mean artifical life forms. The whole issue is not a plot hole. It's more like people writing about technical stuff without wanting to introduce technical terms to non-scientists. Try to explain the difference bewteen cybernetics, artificial life, neural networks, etc. to someone working at a hospital. These are terms used interchangable for noobs to sound more complex.

[@vincent207]

All the more proof that people behind modern Trek don't know their Star Trek.

[@bfg3890]

Yes and like when Scotty thought Kirk pulled the Enterprise out of Mothballs in TNG when he was there when he died in generations or when data says he does not have enough bouncy then says he is designed to act as a flotation device or when troy says she never kissed Riker with a beard before even though she had kissed him numerous times with a beard or trilitihim being an experimental compound the Romulans were working on then its a waste product of the Enterprises engines or in first contact the moon is populated and yet in every shot of the moon it is Barron. Locutus of Borg calls Data obsolete and then the Borg Queen calls data her equal or in first contact when Picard says there are 24 decks and the crewman says the Borg control decks 26 through to 11 or data is talking about the ventral shielding on deck 29 or how money is obsolete, except it isn't except it is except it isn't. Eliminated hunger and want... except on Yars home planet... for some reason. Data dodges lasers but gets shot by Troy with a bow and arrow. Bullet proof in generations but not arrow proof. Data doesn't use contractions... except he does. Oh and my personal favouritekzbin.info/www/bejne/hnqqqYB7g9ykZ80 But hey you hold the new Star Trek shows to a standard you do not hold the old shows to. Tell me are you a moron or a hypocrite?

[@ahsenkhan5386]

true

[@dev0random]

The entire plot is literally ripped off from Mass Effect.

[@defmore5099]

@@bfg3890 oh no the TNG movies are also horrible. bad examples there buuudddddddddy boy. also I do hold old trek to the same standards thats why I can't watch voyager with the multiple times they beam through shields. like thats a fundamental thing with trek. YOU CANT BEAM THROUGH SHIELDS. they do it constantly. BUT lets go with the romulans in picard. their controlled part of the alpha quadrant is bigger than the one the federation got. their technology seems to be at least on par with the federation. well the warbirds are bigger and have cloaking so maybe they are better. they show IN PICARD a fleet of 200 ships by A SECRET SECRET romulan organization. Which implies there are ressources enough to build gigantic fleets even for niche parts of romulan culture. also they work on a borg cube. SO WITH ALL THAT mr smarty pants, can you tell me why they needed the federation to help with the evacuation? WITH ALL THAT COULD YOU TELL ME WHY THE ROMULANS SEEM TO BE DETERATING ON A PLANET AND APPEAR STRANDED!? I tell you why. Alex Kurtzman thinks the romulans had one planet and thats it. as soon as the planet was wiped out it was game over for the romulans. except in the SAME SHOW WE SEE A 200 SHIP FLEET LOOOOOOOOL Literally go fuck yourself you nutrek apologist. the show sucks IN ITSELF no need to list inconsistencies with old trek.

[@bfg3890]

@@defmore5099 1) The fate of Romulus is down to JJ Abrams, not Kurtzman dumbass. 2) You will be alone forever 3) We can probably all agree that the supernova that threatened Romulus came about more quickly than anyone expected, for reasons which are still unknown. Normally, you'd have a very long time to prepare for a supernova destroying your planet. So for whatever reason, you've got a shortened time element here. Also probably the Romulans kept it quiet for a long time, knowing the Romulans. So maybe they could have evacuated everyone with their own resources, they just didn't have enough time.

[@noneed4me2n7]

Love your vids. Is it a labor of love? I always reference your channel whenever I get into arguments with STD and Picard defenders.

[@david.stachon]

Holy shit! There's STD and Picard defenders? How could they possibly defend these absolute abominations?

[@MrSoopSA]

@David Stachon The main ST subreddit is highly policed by company men, so comment shilling or not there’s a regulated hive mind mentality out of there that STD and Picard are the bee’s knees.

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@david.stachon Because they are good shows as long as you're not a crybaby

[@PaiSAMSEN]

@@ShadowSonic2 and as long as you literally shut down your brain watching it.

[@nautdead3197]

@@PaiSAMSEN "I don't have counter arguments to show why the show is actually good so I have to resort to name calling" Schlock jocks

[@FortoFight]

All of this continuity-breaking just so their derivative "machines bad" story can take place.

[@ShadowSonic2]

Please, it doesn't violate continuity at all, despite Grin's agenda

[@FortoFight]

@@ShadowSonic2 I don't always agree with "Grin's agenda" myself but sometimes he makes a decent point. Romulans didn't seem to give a flying fuck about AI before STP.

[@rashaudolson5654]

Wait, what? You're saying you watched all of those clips... and are now saying this is "Grin's Agenda" and that continuity was held together just fine? You can't be serious.

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@rashaudolson5654 Yes, that's what I'm saying. Look at the comments here, no one gives real analysis of anything. All they do is whine about Patrick Stewart ruining everything with political commentary (Trek always did that!) And other nonsense whining. Synth prejudice? In TNG. Federation becoming more isolationist? Set up in DS9.

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@FortoFight There were no major plots about Romulans and AI before now.

[@jatigre1]

They probably believe "Canon" is a type of weapon in the Star Trek Universe

[@GeorgeMonet]

Sadly the DS9 idiot writers are no better because they were the dumb idiots who introduced canons when phasers were clearly the superior weaponry. But dumb as shit DS9 writers were all subversive hacks so they had to subvert everything about TNG including the phaser banks.

[@Shiirow]

to them canon is a weapon to be destroyed and rebuilt to be used as a cudgel to beat fans into submission.

[@jatigre1]

😂@@Shiirow

[@voteDC]

They had no reason in Voyager to believe that the EMH was anything more than a diagnostic program with a holographic interface, something the Doctor played up to.

[@toamatau8785]

Exactly lol, I haven't seen any Picard or Discovery but this channel does so much yoga do get "gotchas!" as often as possible

[@missphase8127]

From the description given in Picard, that's all there needs to be, though. They seem to hate any facsimile of humanoids made by technological components. "[Romulan] computers are limited to purely numerical functions". It's a pretty good gotcha if you ask me.

[@bengrogan9710]

"They had no reason in Voyager to believe that the EMH was anything more than a diagnostic program with a holographic interface" "Our computers are limited to purely numerical functions" The fact there is a hologram alone is a non-numerical function, even more so once you factor it the fact it is running self deterministic diagnostics as opposed to algorithmic searches based on input from the Romulans

[@harmsc12]

The Romulans have a new faction take over every other Tuesday. My headcanon is that the Kill All Androids faction was in power when things hit the fan.

[@ThePathStrider]

That make sense, as Star Trek Nemesis did mention a change in government happens quite often.

[@imofage3947]

And this all could have been avoided if they just hired a continuity checker.

[@ShadowSonic2]

Nah, the gatekeeper fans would have hated it anyways

[@williammagoffin9324]

There already were continuity errors in TNG regarding the Romulans and Cybernetics (depending on a superficial read of the situation) so it would have been difficult.

[@Lightwrath1994]

just hire a youtuber ... less money still good result.

[@christianriddler5063]

@@ShadowSonic2 You are autism incarnate

[@paradox7358]

1:37 when someone asks me what I think of ST: Picard.

[@tonybonavera2011]

Agreed!

[@deval3541]

"we can analize his subroutines one by one" Seems like they need to study AI to do that...

[@alanrogers989]

I am more amazed with how an entire borg cube was disabled with space flowers.

[@bytgfdsw2]

I love how when Dune came back into play a couple years ago, all sci-fi franchises written afterwards all tried to find a way to insert societies with no AIs in it😂😂

[@connect-r]

I'm so glad I didn't see STP.

[@ShadowSonic2]

Too bad, it was good despite the whiners saying otherwise.

[@grayfiresoul]

@@ShadowSonic2 Good how? Good Star Trek, or good, dark sci-fi action thriller? I'll watch The Expanse if I want the latter.

[@narutobroken]

I regret watching it.

[@connect-r]

@@narutobroken is just another STD

[@OneofInfinity.]

I envy you.

[@mikes252]

Yea ST:Picard was a joke, it just used parts of star trek with a completly unconnected story

[@ShadowSonic2]

Just like every other Trek

[@MrOarson]

It's like the new stuff was written by Pakleds. "We look for things to make our shows go."

[@SlimThrull]

Orla Brady is still gorgeous as a Romulan.

[@NaeMuckle]

I don't even know what the point of new trek is. Its like watching a marvel film. All flashy visuals and am empty hollow story.

[@drhfuhruhurr1899]

Hmmmm.... its almost as if the writers of Star Trek : Picard, were never fans, and didnt watch a single episode of Star Trek 🤔

[@heliopyre]

they don't need to be fans, the just need to be competent writers

[@drhfuhruhurr1899]

@@heliopyre Agreed.... though having some sort of knowledge of the series would have definitely helped.

[@Raja1938]

IKR? Just like that recent episode "The Enemy Within" where they forgot the ship had shuttles that could've rescued the crew trapped on the planet instead of waiting to fix the transporters. It's like they never saw a single episode of Star Trek!

[@shawarden]

Pretty sure Kurtzman went to the D&D school of writing... The Romulans kind of forgot that they are a functional star faring race with ships that can somehow mask their presence while using micro bloody black holes as power sources but somehow don't explode/implode. Only an AI/really advanced compute could manage all those variables

[@ShadowSonic2]

Which still doesn't mean they have androids, that's the point.

[@Sibbot]

@@ShadowSonic2 They do have A.I. though did you watch the video? Face it kid these new shows are garbage.

[@MarkBlance]

In Star Trek: Picard, only a specific sect of Romulans did not like/trust A.I.

[@Fudmottin]

Picard is presumably an alternate future. Yes, the Romulan sun went supernova in Picard. That is in the future of STNG & Voyager. It is also in the future of the Star Trek movie starring Chris Pine directed by J.J. Abrams. So we are dealing with a split timeline. There are speculations in Quantum Mechanics that deal with multi-verses that would work this way.

[@andrewolson5471]

Voyager's EMH Mk I was a borderline evil genius...

[@windyhours]

Wow, it's as if the ST Picard team just made up facts to fit the story they wanted to create! Kurtzman claims it's impossible to stick to canon... What he really means is that would have been impossible for him to follow the established facts of the Star Trek Universe AND produce the story HE wanted ... ugh 😣 He should have never been allowed to have such control. Write a damn fanfic and move on!

[@ShadowSonic2]

No, it all fit. Grin thinks out of context clips can support his agenda

[@paulrasmussen8953]

@@ShadowSonic2 no. It's clearly an issue. Hell the hobus mica should not he an issue. Romulans have a large fleet and can evacuate Romulus easily. But Abrams needed to trigger his universe.

[@adrianvanleeuwen]

With Kurtzman anything goes, so yes for him, it is impossible to stick to Canon, because he does not want to be bothered, and wants his story his own way.

[@wotaj]

Secret Hideout seems almost proud of not getting story beats or lore about Star Trek correct.

[@SB-vj7sz]

Kids playing with “daddy’s” work always gets crayon on his important papers. I doubt Gene would approve.

[@litchtheshinigami8936]

S B gene is rolling in his grave so hard he’s creating earthquakes

[@ChristopherG1990]

That holographic Spock was just a programmed recording, not an AI.

[@bomat761]

None of this establishes AI in the sense of that in Picard, except the scene with Data, and even that scene showed a keen distain for Androids.

[@MyDefendor]

They could have just googled “do the Romulans like Cybernetics” before shooting Picard. I mean how little can u care about Star Trek canon to don’t even give a shit about something this simple but big.

[@tiger7892]

I've never understood the need to make sweeping statements such as that in gigantic (fictional universes). They could've easily said, "certain romulans don't like AI" and things would be perfectly fine

[@kenjackben]

cybernetics is about creating man-machine interface not creating artificial intelligence Captain Picard is a cyborg he has an artificial heart

[@glair]

A lot of Science Fiction writers misuse the term "cybernetics". I remember this being an issue in early episodes of Next Generation. For instance in some episodes data's creator doctor Noonien soong is referred to as a "cyberneticist".

[@BNuts]

So what you're saying the lady is saying is that there are no sort of consoles on any Romulan starship.

[@radioflyer68911]

kenjackben : These IP owners(of Star Trek,Star Wars, Dr Who), writers, producers and directors don't have a clue what they've got. They don't deserve them.

[@kenjackben]

@@radioflyer68911 most people don't realize that Starfleet does not need a military enemy what they need is an ideological one no one ever questions them about their philosophy of self betterment Starfleet / the federation citizens may have a disagreement that does not devolve into bloodshed just a difference of opinion

[@BNuts]

@@kenjackben _STD_ and _STP_ like to frame the UPF and Starfleet as villains, but I have a feeling that's not what you mean. The Romulan Star Empire were, I feel, ideological foils for the UFP, since they were more tyrannical, and had the Tal Shiar. And since their tech was at least at the same level, defeating them was always a game of 3D chess. Particularly since a D'deradex was roughly equal to a Galaxy-class in power. The Dominion and the Jem'Hadar represented a threat based in belief, which could only be dissuaded though force. Then you had implacable foes like the Borg, particularly any version without the Queen. Of course, Lore was a foil for Data, and as a foe he was not easy to outsmart or overcome by force. But he had no understanding of humanity. _Voyager_ introduced a lot of races and cultures to inhabit the Delta Quadrant beside the Borg that could easily be compared to the Federation in some way: Krenim, Hirogen, Octanti (sp), Vaadwuar, Voth. _STO_ also brings into focus a comparison with the ancient Iconians, in that they had their own version of the Prime Directive. Given how the Iconians are during their part of the game, you have to wonder how far the UFP could fall if something similar happened to them -- although the Federation lacked the Iconians' level of technology at the point of their empire's fall. I like the Iconians, though, because despite having such an alien form, and despite them becoming monsters, they're still portrayed in a way where you can understand and appreciate where they're coming from.

[@FurryEskimo]

Seems like Picard’s writers just decided to ignore all the previous content for the sake of conflicts that make no sense..

[@Gary_Nadeau]

I never saw so many continuity error....what a mess

[@ShadowSonic2]

TNG and TOS had just as many. Grin just hates Modern TV in general

[@katakisLives]

@@ShadowSonic2 Exactly, the original run of shows and movies had tons of continuity errors! even the wrath of Kahn. Kahn recognized Checkov even though he wasn't on the enterprise when Kahn last showed up

[@TheRealVolk]

It’s sad but I think Patrick Stewart is actually pretty dense to think that what he filmed in Picard was in any way relatable to Star Trek or Picard.

[@MatthewSchellenberg]

Time makes fools of us all!

[@Shiirow]

he is a huge lefty, and a massive TDS sufferer.

[@dawall3732]

Just another case of the writers not knowing what they're doing.

[@logicplague]

STP, where all of the things are wrong. edit: that ending was perfect!

[@Yaapo]

STP writers kinda turned the Romulans that we know - cunning, nefarious, technologically advanced and one of the 3 major Alpha Quadrant powers into what, space ninjas? Good lord...

[@Shiirow]

I mean in TNG picard fought for android to be treated like autonomous sentient beings but in Picard we have Data slaves all over the place.

[@meissnerflux]

Keep preaching the truth, brother. You are doing good work .

[@ShadowSonic2]

He's just pushing a fake agenda.

[@wally7861]

The Spock hologram is revealed to be a simple recording with no ability to answer questions after the speech. That's not AI

[@Kj16V]

Unpopular opinion: STD was a masterpiece compared to Picard.

[@Leo___________]

The shinier turd?

[@cloudkitt]

Neither was good. Lower Decks is way better than both, which is kinda pathetic, but it was good after a slow start!

[@A.Lifecraft]

One has to give it to them, romulans had little cultural depth in TNG and VOY, way less then klingons for example. We basically only knew they were the vulcans more emotional brothers. So yes they made up that anti-AI-sect for "Picard" but one could even state that military driven romulan senate was more eager to look into AI than the broken empire with several suspicious people in office...

[@juniorjr.]

Someday I like to think everything that happened in Star Trek Picard and Discovery only happened in an alternate timeline, like in All Good Things.

[@_philipp__]

I just want to forget.

[@theseek7278]

I’ve come to reason that must be the case and that’s why they are writing whatever changes they want. If they were continuing from previous canon they wouldn’t be so careless. They know what they are doing and it’s a new Star Trek universe altogether

[@JayEey]

I wish Seth McFarlane along with people who had worked on the show previously were tasked with the Star Trek revival. It feels like people who hate Star Trek are in charge. Where’s the bright optimistic future? The thought provoking stories? The ethical codes? The moral allegories? The integrity of star fleet?

[@KCKingdomCreateGreatTrekAgain]

Was stp green lighted by Biden??? "These are the romulans I remember".

[@Iffy]

Top of the morning to ya Irish Romulan!

[@ge2719]

Whats the craic?

[@ShadowSonic2]

You're whining about that?

[@Reilly444]

The writers really didn't need to go the "butlerian jihad" route with the romulans. As far as they knew, the Federation could have been building a secret android army. That would have been more than enough reason for them to want to find the andoids and wipe them out

[@mikavirtanen7029]

Of course they didn't, because that was Star Trek and not Kurtzman's and his tool crew's harebrained trash.

[@stevetalon0]

I'd argue that Robo Spock isn't an AI. I'd also argue that because Romulan society is weary of AI, doesn't mean that there aren't limited androids in use. Think of the holograms that were "liberated" holograms that Nuu'bari used as miners. They were dumber than a bag of rocks!

[@nataliamontelongo2781]

wouldn't "pure loathing" include that?

[@ShadowSonic2]

@Lady Wanderer The Feds were already mistreating AI before that. It was merely the straw that broke the camel's back.

[@paulb9890]

“Doesn’t make sense.” Keep at Major.

[@ShadowSonic2]

Keep at making edited videos to force his agenda?

[@EnragedM0nkey]

I mean, Star Trek as a whole and continuity go together like peanutbutter and ketchup. I mean, in the aimsted series from the 1970’s, it’s stated that the original Enterprise is the first ship with a warp drive.

[@Nick-kz6dg]

The anti-synth angle still could've worked if the Romulan hatred for synthetics was limited only to the Zhat Vash instead of being a cornerstone of Romulan culture.

[@ShadowSonic2]

It was. Nowhere was it said all Romulans were like this.

[@booombasa]

@@ShadowSonic2 They said ROMULAN CULTURE was like that. That is pretty much every romulan there is...

[@TheSarcMark]

Riiight because ALL people in a culture are 100% the same....

[@booombasa]

humanty, even across cultures share alot of the same values. For example raping and murdering kids is bad. Wouldnt you agreee that pretty much every human agree on that? Pretty sure AI and romulan culture has somewhat the same. It is bad. Very very bad. Like you couldnt imagine how bad it is.

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@booombasa They were lying when they said that

[@njb1126]

That scene with admiral jarok 👌

[@mrwaffles6139]

lets be honest star trek picard isn`t actually the star trek most of us know and love (and miss)

[@bfg3890]

Yes and like when Scotty thought Kirk pulled the Enterprise out of Mothballs in TNG when he was there when he died in generations or when data says he does not have enough bouncy then says he is designed to act as a flotation device or when troy says she never kissed Riker with a beard before even though she had kissed him numerous times with a beard or trilitihim being an experimental compound the Romulans were working on then its a waste product of the Enterprises engines or in first contact the moon is populated and yet in every shot of the moon it is Barron. Locutus of Borg calls Data obsolete and then the Borg Queen calls data her equal or in first contact when Picard says there are 24 decks and the crewman says the Borg control decks 26 through to 11 or data is talking about the ventral shielding on deck 29 or how money is obsolete, except it isn't except it is except it isn't. Eliminated hunger and want... except on Yars home planet... for some reason. Data dodges lasers but gets shot by Troy with a bow and arrow. Bullet proof in generations but not arrow proof. Data doesn't use contractions... except he does. Oh and my personal favouritekzbin.info/www/bejne/hnqqqYB7g9ykZ80 Face it the Star Trek you know and love isn't the Star Trek you know and love. But hey you hold the new Star Trek shows to a standard you do not hold the old shows to. Tell me are you a moron or a hypocrite?

[@MedalionDS9]

I don't think Romulans hated AI or liked them... they seem to hate everything that isn't Romulan

[@lozza925]

Face it Star Trek never coming back, the whole production and crew is gone and they were 95% what made it

[@stormblind1654]

It's up to fans and Orville now. Sad days when Star Trek is more like Star Wars, and Star Wars is more like Star Trek.(The new High Republic series is VERY star trek in flavor)

[@ScorpiousDelectus]

I remember when money didn't exist in the Federation except when it did

[@pelgrim8640]

Well theoretically, one could argue that the Romulans were lying in those past instances, just to get a closer look at (the Federation's) ongoing AI research. After all they did help set up a whole Borg cube facility for such a purpose.

[@MrRickkramer]

The Kelvin timeline and the discovery timeline(s) messed thing up really bad. They should have done Axanar and forgot about the Kelvin timeline..maybe bring in Seth McFarlane..

[@BOLANAREDE321]

Meh, that aside, I still liked "Picard." It was worth watching. I'd watch another season of it. No show is perfect, and Trek screws up it's own lore all the time. Writers never care as much as fans.

[@Thermool]

I’m comfortable calling the current generation of Trek 2017-2020 or anything under Secret Hideout, Alternate Timeline. Saves me the trouble of canon issues and passion for these versions of the franchise. And I can judge them each on their own then.

[@Joe0161]

ST: Picard is an embarrassment

[@ShadowSonic2]

No, it's judt Trek for modern audiences and not throwbacks

[@grayfiresoul]

@@ShadowSonic2 You don't have to produce a 'throwback' series make a Star Trek. They deliberately chose not to make Star Trek shows and to only use aesthetic elements from the license as a coat of paint. Remove starfleet, starfleet badges, and starfleet ranks, and you're left with a generic 2010s action sci-fi series.

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@grayfiresoul "They deliberately chose not to make Star Trek shows and to only use aesthetic elements from the license as a coat of paint." Says you. "Remove starfleet, starfleet badges, and starfleet ranks, and you're left with a generic 2010s action sci-fi series." You could say the same about the other Treks too like DS9 and VOY and some of TNG.

[@grayfiresoul]

@@ShadowSonic2 You've lost all credibility, Shill. Holy smokes...

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@grayfiresoul Oh grow up

[@atarimonkey]

If they just said it was an extremist group against AI outside of Romulan government, no one would of had a problem.

[@allthingsnerd.4484]

I am a life long Trek fan, and while there are some inconsistencies in Picard and Discovery (which, admittedly they try to clear up by the last episode of Disco season 2, even if it is a bit ham fistedly), it is no more than Trek has ALWAYS had. Kirk's middle initial changes, Spock can laugh and smile then he cannot. Data is full of inconsistencies. Worf: "Klingons do not laugh" in the same series where Riker serves briefly on a KBOP and the Klingons are just laughing and having a grand old time at dinner. Voyager's infinite supply of limited torpedoes.... I could go on. There are plenty of YT videos out there that go into more detail. Who is to say that Picard's Romulan housekeepers, former Tal Shiar no less, are not lying to Picard? I mean, now we are to trust everything a Tal Shiar agent says when, for 50 years, we have been told to never trust Romulans? Trek is and always has been inconsistent with its canon and all I can really tell you is that if you enjoy it, watch it. If you don't enjoy it, do not. As the famous MST3K Love Theme so eloquently puts it "If you're wondering how he eats and breathes, and other science facts; just repeat to yourself "it's just a show, i should really just relax."

[@RealAfricanPatriot]

_„Just turn off your brain bro and consoom, lmao”_ Althought you’re right. There were many contradictions in the old trek too.

[@pentelegomenon1175]

I would argue that TNG had its own canon hiccups. In TOS the Romulans were the warrior race, and the Klingons were like space imperialists. Admittedly the issue is slightly confused by two separate TOS episodes about a weird experimental weapon wielded by the Romulans, and one episode hinting that Klingons with disabilities are dealt with ruthlessly, but overall I would say that TNG's portrayal of those races is flat-out wrong.

[@pentelegomenon1175]

@@jackalenterprisesofohio I don't see the connection

[@gavindoyle692]

Have you ever noticed how Romulans over the years switched from American to Irish accents? 😅

[@cqtaylor]

Fanboys are like, "This is inconsistent with Trek!" Oh, you mean like the Eugenics Wars of the 1990s that killed millions of people? Yeah, Star Trek has "always" been consistent.

[@TheSarcMark]

Right! Yet when they time traveled to the 90s in ST5 no one there seemed affected by it or even know anything about it! Almost like it never even happened.

[@williammagoffin9324]

​@@TheSarcMark if you traveled back in time to 1938 New York City and looked for the result of the several million people killed so far in the Second Sino-Japanese War what would you find? Just because countries were collapsing and millions killed doesn't mean California is now a hellscape.

[@TheSarcMark]

@@williammagoffin9324 I agree. I'm not the one complaining. I'm nit-picking the people who raise hell about other minute inconsistencies in New Trek, but never cared about similar issues in Old Trek. My point was simply that you can't pick and choose where you want to care about that kind of stuff. (Fyi to your example, you may not have SEEN those things but you wouldn't have had to look too hard to find out it was what was going on in the worls at the time. The Eugenics Wars were allegedly very violent and world-changing. But of course we know why there weren't mentioned...the writers weren't concerned with it.)

[@Jadty]

It's like none of the people involved in the new shows ever watched any classic Trek.

[@NineWorldsFromDrew]

Headcanon: What if the events we see unfold in Voyager’s “Message in a Bottle” WERE because of the Zhat Vash, and their crusade against AI? Think about it - the Romulans who captured the Prometheus ONLY learn that it has an EMH programme, AFTER Voyager’s EMH is transmitted to the ship, and activates himself. Possibly, they even learned of this only BECAUSE of the Doctor showing up - although that’s disputable, because on the one hand they knew sick bay had an EMH and they told the computer to activate it, BUT they might not have suspected Prometheus’s EMH would be so sophisticated. SO, as a theory to fill in this gap, we could say that the Romulans became suspicious that Prometheus’s EMH was in fact a sufficiently sophisticated AI, their commander then reports this to his superiors, the Tal Shiar / Zhat Vash immediately pick up on this - and why wouldn’t they? They’re always listening! - And that’s when the commander’s orders are changed. So why were they ordered to a rendezvous with the Tal Shiar? BECAUSE of the EMH! The Tal Shiar obviously DID have an issue, or at least a curiosity, with this sophisticated holographic crew member - plus there may have been other tech on board that interested them, but I expect that came secondary to noticing an AI. The only other ACTUAL appearances of the Tal Shiar, before ST:Picard season 1, were episodes where their motives related to the Dominion - a considerable threat to all of the Alpha quadrant powers, both at the time of “The Die is Cast” and “In the Pale Moonlight”. The Tal Shiar only get a mention in this Voyager episode. And they can’t possibly believe that Starfleet’s new tactical vessel is an existential threat to the Romulan Star Empire! Especially considering a small team of Romulans just managed to steal it! So what explains their interest in it? It must be something that was found on board! 🤖🧑‍⚕️🩺

[@niccolom]

Things changed drastically after Romulus exploded. I don’t mind her statement pointing to the current romulan culture, as opposed to that from before the explosion.

[@NitpickingNerd]

She wasnt talking about current she specifically said thats how it was for thousands of years

[@heliopyre]

the problem is the way it was phrased makes it seem like that's how it's always been. if she'd she "have you ever wonder why we stopped" instead it wouldn't have been a problem.

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@NitpickingNerd She never said that exact

[@RagnarKorg3141]

The rational explanation for the contradiction is that some Romulans are less stuck up than others, but very few people notice. After all Klingons have always had crests on their skulls but 60 years ago we were only shown genetically modified Klingons who had none.