Ronald Weinland vs Jehovah's witnesses

[@1biblestudent]

Very thought provoking video Richard. very well done.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

“Let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching” (Heb 10:24-25).

[@JahsProphecy]

"Further, turn down foolish and ignorant questionings, knowing they produce fights. But a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, keeping himself restrained under evil, instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed; as perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth..." - 2 Tim 2:23-25

[@frenchyo7]

Sabian, you did such a wonderful job, keep exposing the truth. God bless you! :)

[@tommycog1]

We are so fortunate to have someone as connected to God as you. Please spread some more of your wisdom on us. I cant wait until God see's your Videos so He can be enlightened.

[@Sabianfan]

Who are you talking to Tom?

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@1biblestudent The first statement from Jesus is at Matthew 5:5: "Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth." As far as I know and researched; the Watchtower doctrine is that the meek referred to in this passage is Jesus and the earth is his inheritance.

[@JahsProphecy]

I never heard about this guy. Sharp contrast between a real false prophet(Ronald Weinland) and one who is accused of being being one (Jehovah's Witnesses). Very informative video Brother. Thank you for it. Warm Christian Love. ~Jehovah First~

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan ...He then broke from them when they had doctinal disagreements. Then, he started his own church, which grew until Rutherford, in an attempt to establish his leadership upon the group, decided that a name change would be better suited for the "work" of God. Now, both men then told the congregation that they would be rejecting God if they broke away due to doctrinal disagreements.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

"Ruling Over" (06) Rev. 5:10- Significance of being a priest - analogy of who we are and what we do in the world, and in the kingdom 1 Pet. 2:4-10 our priesthood - vs. 4-5 living stones, built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, offer spiritual sacrifices - vs. 7 precious value - vs. 9 chosen race, royal priesthood (kingly priesthood), holy nation, God’s own possession - vs. 9 so we can proclaim the excellencies of God - work in the kingdom vs.10 people of God, receive mercy.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

"Be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand” (Jas 5:8). "Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door!” (Jas 5:9). “The end of all things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers” (1 Pet 4:7). “Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness” (2 Pet 3:11).

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

That's great that you read the full context (LOL). The Bible never talks about an “age of accountability” when you suddenly are free from honoring mom and dad. There is a strong connection between honor and obedience. Honor your father and your mother is one of the Ten Commandments. Children who are not under the direct authority of parents any longer; still have a biblical mandate to honor parents as adults. Honor your father and your mother (Ex. 20:12).

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan The JW official day of worship is Sunday. That's the day for the Public Talk and the Watchtower discussion. The only other designated days are Thursdays for the Theocratic Ministry School, the Bible Highlights, etc. They used to meet on Tuesdays, but that stopped when gas prices when up a few years ago. Now, those days of Tuesday and Thursday would sometimes alternate to Monday and Wednesday. (continue...)

[@arnie365]

@Sabianfan oh and while u r looking up what i told u to pls also tell me y the wts feels it nesasary to use SUBLIMINAL images in their publications? what purpose does putting demonic images in the publications serve?

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd - With all of the notes and comments below, I am trying to clarify the position as much as possible, trying to make it as clear as possible. However doing this in chopped up bits and pieces as below, is not really all that effective. It’s all just an inadequate summary; of which a great deal is lost in translation. All the Best, I will catch up with you again in a week. I will be reading your comments with great interest ! Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, .......

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan "I know it doesn't, but it sure relates to the sunday issue because it's clear that you're not AVOIDING the sunday as a day of worship!" ??? I am unsure of your point. I don't avoid any day for worship. Worship is (or should be) a 24/7/365 thing. I do understand the variations due to scheduling.

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan (continue)...if it is true that the conditions of the city is figurative while the conditions of those within the city are literal, then the conditions of the devil is literal while the conditions of death/hades are figurative in the same place. If we apply the same reasoning to both, then it cannot be so hard to understand, could it?

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd - I am going to expand on this subject some more later. However so as not to create some confusion; those dying in faith, are gathered as firstfruits for God, foreshadowing “a greater harvest”. Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence." So yes this is true "These ones are also called firstfruits (Rev 14:4) if there firstfruits, there must also be other fruits." but in the full context of 1 Cor 15: 20 - 23), there are other issues.

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan All Christian denominations in America go by Sunday because that was the day the Catholic Church determined for the day of worship. The only exception are the 7-Day Adventists who hold worship services on Saturday. Sunday didn't become designated as the first day of the week until @ 589 C.E..

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan How can they be my assumptions when I have been attending meetings for the last 10 years in differents states?

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

Hi Arnie; I can well imagine what you are going through. In regards to the Leaders of any Church; Saul was a religious Big Shot (Acts 22:3); but after a spiritual experience Acts 22: 6 - 11. There is hope for even Religious Big Shots. God will launch rescue missions and literally pull people out, of any seemingly impossible situations. We need to keep praying about our own situations; “Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head, and he fell to the ground and worshipped” Job 1:20

[@1biblestudent]

@Sabianfan -What is interisting about Matt.5:5 is that it might be a direct quote from Ps.37:9-11. The wicked shall not be............ and the meek shall inherit the earth.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd - Additional Notes: The last days were not in the distant future but were inaugurated at Pentecost (cf. 1 Cor. 10:11; 2 Tim. 3:1; Heb. 1:2; James 5:3; 2 Pet. 3:3) and will continue until Christ's return. They are the “last days” in that the coming of the Messiah, long predicted in the OT, has now occurred. His saving death and resurrection have been accomplished, and now the work of the Holy Spirit in building the church.

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan Also, I like the way you avoided answering my question...:) If you don't know what message Catholics preach, then how can you say they don't all preach the same message?

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

"Ruling Over" (05) Through my most recent messages called “Ruling Over” and other messages still to come; I am gradually step by step getting around to answering this issue posted by Sabianfan (Richard) quote: "Not ALL can sit on thrones & rule as kings in heaven Arnie! There must be something to rule over!". I am slowly getting to the issue of what is the “something to rule over!" and what does "thrones, rule and Kings" really mean in the context. I have answered the "Priests" issue so far.

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan (continue...) Also, the times on Sunday sometime changes so that the congregations that share a K.H. don't have to go at the same time all the time (example: those that go at 10am would switch with those who go at 12pm so that the same people don't have to get up early while the others get to sleep in all the time.) I said all this to say that he does know what days JW's attend worship.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@arnie365 - Hi Arnie; please take note: WHAT IS THE FIRST THING THAT COMES TO MIND WHEN YOU HEAR THE WORDS: RUDE, DISRESPECTFUL, INSENSITIVE, AND OFFENSIVE? YOU MIGHT THINK THEY COME FROM THE DIALOG FROM AN “R” RATED MOVIE. DESPITE THE GREATEST INTENTIONS, IT IS POSSIBLE TO TAKE SOMETHING AS POWERFUL AS THE GOOD NEWS OF JESUS CHRIST AND MAKE IT TOTALLY OFFENSIVE. THE TRUTH OF THE MESSAGE CAN BE ACCURATE, BUT IF IT IS DELIVERED DISRESPECTFULLY, THE MESSAGE IS DISTORTED, MISSED OR REJECTED.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

So finally in summary and answer to your question which was: “So what I will ask you is, what event or thing took place that marked the start of the last days (End of the system)? “In these last days,” His first coming inaugurated the “last days”. In the last days...” A common New Testament term meaning the age since Christ came, the time between the two comings, now having reached two thousand years. “

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd - Additional Notes: The crowning of Jesus as King took place in Heaven (Matthew 28.18; Mark 16.19; Daniel 7.13-14). Pentecost was the day when His crowning was publicly declared to earth in His coming to dwell in His people so as to establish the Kingly Rule of God throughout the earth. It was the day when God entered His people forming them as a new creation, making them one in the spiritual body of Christ, sealing them as representative of His whole people.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

(B) A doctrine is a belief (or system) accepted as authoritative. Every Doctrine/belief is important even non-essential biblical doctrines. In most religions, certain doctrines are considered essential to the belief system. Key doctrines form the primary basis of the belief system. Because these central doctrines define the character of Christianity, one cannot be saved and deny these.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

“Ruling Over" (03) 1 Pet. 2:1 - 2 comparing believers to newborn infants. 1 Pet. 2:3 Christians continue to long for the Word, which they did in conversion. 1 Pet. 2:4 Personal relationship with Christ, beginning at the time of conversion. 1 Pet. 2:5 Believers are living stones in God's new temple (spiritual house). Believers are not only God's temple but are also a holy priesthood, which offers spiritual sacrifices ( Rom. 12:1; Phil. 4:18; Heb. 13:15-16) by the power of the Holy Spirit.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd - The Kingdom is present within us by Jesus' Spirit; and from this source all the other things follow out word from within. All the religious activity as I described above, is actually putting the cart before the horse (so to speak). Regarding luke 17:20,21 The adverb translated "within" is Greek entos, "inside, within, within the limits of" or "among you, in your midst." ................

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan Also, I don't judge anyone according to which day they gather for worship. I do, however, tell them not to judge others according to what days/times they gather.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

(06) To “drink his blood” means to trust in his atoning death, which is represented by the shedding of his blood. Although Jesus is not speaking specifically about the Lord's Supper here, there is a parallel theme, because the receiving of eternal life through being united with “the Son of Man” is represented in the Lord's Supper (where Jesus' followers symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood)

[@rpierre777]

09:39 ~ "That choice always depends on practical factors, never on what the Catholic Church dictates!" Actually, it depends on the Governing Body agreeing to deviate from the set time and day originally set by the Catholic Church. Their usage of Sunday (as almost every place of worship) stems from Sunday being designated as the "official day of worship" by the Catholic Church. And, every place gets (for the most part) get together on other days for worship.

[@arnie365]

FALL HARLOT FALL! BY THE POWER OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD YESHUA OF NAZERETH MAY THE WTS FALL AND BE SUBMERGED UNDER THE WATER OF THE EAST RIVER!!! AMEN.AMEN.AMEN, THANK YOU LORD JESUS AMEN!

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan Is that why in the Sept 2009 Awake under the section God's Justice it states: "Clearly, as a God of love, Jehovah will not torture people in hellfire."? This premises is the reason Russell rejected the doctrine of hell. He couldn't see past the material to understand spiritual punishment. There are many things that as humans looking through human eyes with a human mind cannot understand. (1 Cor 2:14) So, he let the bible explain itself according to human logic and not God's wisdom.

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan Heb 10:25 isn't talking about who you represent to the world, though. So, I am not sure how that relates. I gather with fellow believers on whatever day is good for us to gather. It's not about the day at all. However, this is more common on Sunday. But, in our minds, this is not THE day that is established to gather together.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

(A) Central doctrines should not be confused with peripheral issues, which Christians may legitimately disagree. Peripheral (non-essential) doctrines could possibly include such issues as the timing of the tribulation etc, Eschatology etc, method of baptism etc, structure of church government etc. and so on. For example, one can be wrong about the identity of "the spirits in prison" 1 Peter 3:19 ) but one cannot deny salvation by grace or the deity of Christ (John 8:24 ) and be saved.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

"signs during Christ's parousia" (02) Jehovah - The Father - The Watchtower says in the Feb. 15, 1995 Watchtower on pages 5 & 6 "... in many cases, he has chosen not to use his foreknowledge. Because God is almighty, he is free to exercise his abilities as he wishes, not according to the wishes of imperfect humans."

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan It is not an argument from ignorance for these are the reason many atheist and non-Christians have given for not believing in the Bible. It's kind of like a line on Devil's Advocate where Keanu Reevee's character said, "In the bible, we lose." Al Pacino's charater says, "Consider the source". So, if they don't think that God is as loving as He is presented to be, then why trust anything else written concerning Him and His righteousness?

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd - Additional Notes: The fruit of Pentecost - "The Lord added to them day by day those who were being saved". As a result of Pentecost, we have the beginnings of the Kingly Rule of God manifested on earth as the believers grow in faith together, share food together, pray together, share together, and reveal their love for one another, and continue to expand. All this is what would be expected of those who have entered the new age under the Kingly Rule of God.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

2edgedsw0rd - Paul's response is that spiritual preparedness for the coming of Christ does not involve date setting, clock watching, or sign seeking. Not for the believers. The “Last Days” and “The Day of the Lord” are two different things. The “Last Days” is a period of time leading up to the final “The Day of The Lord”. “The day of the Lord judgment”, God has chosen not to reveal the time of the final epochs so that all believers live in anticipation expectancy all the time.

[@arnie365]

@Sabianfa"Job 38: 31". It was a misunderstanding and a literal interpretation of those text, but it was never taught "Jehovah LIVED ON A STAR called Alcyone:" OH HOW LITTLE U KNOW ABOUT UR CULT.The constellation of the seven stars forming the Pleiades appears to be the crowning center around which the known systems of the planets revolve.... that one of the stars of that group is the DWELLING PLACE of Jehovah and the place of the highest heavens J. F. Rutherford, Reconciliation, 1928, p. 14.

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan Yes, it does prove they BELIEVE they have the truth. Yet, it's not about that. It's about accepting Russell as the spokensman of God. This "position" was later transferred to Rutherford, and then to the G.B.. So, true, it is about belief, but not about truth.

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan ""Membership in the Militia means complete dedication to the Kingdom of God and to the salvation of souls through Mary Immaculate." -Pope John Paul II" Does this mean that every Catholic believe this?

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan (continue....)The Hebrew word used for the last word in this verse does not denote death, but rejection. Even the NWT acknowledges this. However, JW's refuse to admit that in Daniel, this "rejection" is everlasting for those who do not receive everlasting life AFTER the rise from the grave (and it does not mean they die again for that would contradict dying once~Heb 9:27).

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd - Matt 24: 3 “While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?” They are asking about His “Second Coming” or the “End of The System” (end of the world). They are not asking about when will the “last days” begin. As mentioned the “last days” are leading up to the “Second Coming” or the “End of The System”.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd - If possible I would be interested to know what you understand this to mean " John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” I think we might possibly be misunderstanding each other, and also in what the word "Spiritual" means.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

“Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming; in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning; lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!” (Mark 13:35-37). - What time period was it when this was said ? = 2000 year ago. This was being said to real live people 2000 years ago "And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan I never said any of those days were NOT good worship. I don't care (I know God doesn't either) which day you get together. I rejoice knowing your getting together-not the day. You said the meeting was switched from Sunday to Saturday. Well, that only proves my original statment that JW's meet on Sunday. It was switched due to circumstances that required it. And, it wasn't that the congregtation got together and decided that Saturday night was better for them to meet.

[@arnie365]

@Sabianfan "1) Consider the time of NOAH. Genesis6:3 After that Jehovah said: “My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.” WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT I SAID?

[@arnie365]

@FatherOfKnowledge I AGREE WITH U AND I KNOW I AM GUILTY OF SOME OF WHAT U HAVE SAID AND I AGREE IT`S WRONG BT HAVING SAID THAT I AM ONLY HUMAN AND I HAVE GR8 HATRED FOR THE WTS (NOT JW`S AS SUCH) COS THEY TOOK AWAY FORM ME MY JOY AND MY PRECIOUS GIFTS WHICH GOD HIMSELF GAVE ME, MY FAMILY. NOW FROM THE SIDELINE IT IS EASY TO JUDGE ME BT I`D BET THAT ANYONE IN MY SHOES WOULD BE THE SAME AS I AM.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd - For some, spirituality means studying Books, studying the Bible and engaging in lots of activity”,meetings, preaching etc, following all of the moral laws and principles, as in the Bible. However in themselves, they won’t bring you life; because what I have described is called “Religion” (it’s dead). It all looks very impressive (and it is); and keeps all very busy, however some are under an illusion that they are working their way into eternal life by doing all that.

[@arnie365]

@Sabianfan WHAT ABOUT TIME CONTROL? DOES THE WTS KEEP U VERY BUSY WITH ENDLESS MEETINGS AND WTS ERRANTS AND FUNCTIONS? ALL CULTS DO THAT SO THAT THERE IS VERY LITTLE TIME FOR CRITICAL THINKING. I`LL LEAVE THESE 2 FOR NOW I HAVE MORE THOUGH

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

(Part A) Hi Richard; just for your information in regards to what most would call “Salvation” issues stated specifically in scripture, which cannot be denied and be Christian. Nature of God, the atonement, and its method of salvation applied to the believer. Denial of any Primary essential constitutes lack of Salvation (Regeneration). Regeneration means the believer is indwelt by God, changed, and enabled to understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:15)

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd - Well you mentioned it yourself “This apostasy really took hold in the first century christian congregation and the apostasy rose from among , that congregation.” So the apostle Paul forewarned Timothy of perilous times that would come (2 Tim 3:1-3). He told the younger pastor, “The Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith” (1 Tim 4:1)-and he went on to describe an apostasy that would precede and signify Christ’s return to earth. (Ring a Bell ?)

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan (continue)...This same argument could be used on the OT by atheist or non-Christians to show how "unloving" God is. The number of Israelites killed at the base of Mount Sinai. (Ex 32:27-28) Uzza killed by God for touching the ark. (1 Chr 13:10) In both of these cases, it can be argued that a truly loving God would have forgiven the Israelites and Uzza instead of killing them. However, that only removes God's righteousness in judgement.

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan "That has to do with preaching, not with supernatural miracles! " Either way, both are based on their interpretation of the scriptures. "He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do;" (Jn 14:12) "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen." (Isa 43:10) So, whose right is determined by who you choose to believe (in).

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

04) “living bread” Jesus is not talking about literal “bread,” but he is the true “living bread” in the sense that those who believe in him have their spiritual hunger satisfied. He becomes this spiritually satisfying “bread” by sacrificing his own physical body in his death on the cross, and in that sense he can say that this spiritual bread is my flesh.

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan "JW no specific date given (keeping Matth.24:36 in mind)" Actually, the prediction was that Armageddon would "close" on Oct 1914, and they believed they were going to heaven during the first week in October. Now, they didn't give a specific day, but they did give a specific range during a specific month.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

(B) Side note: In regards to Paradise Earth, we could say it will be a new renovated Earth; some believe the Earth will be totally destroyed and a new one will be put in place etc. It could well turn out that some of the Beliefs of the JWs are correct, this is not a problem. Therefore I am not being too Dogmatic about anything I say; unless it is essential Salvation doctrine. However (being dogmatic), there is no two class system for Believers. There is only “Believers” and “ Non Believers”

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan Godly unity is NOT defined by all believing the same thing, but believing the truth (not a truth).

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

“Ruling Over” (07) Final Summary regarding “Priests”: All born-again believers have direct access to God; not through any human channels, Organizations, Slaves or any other type or form of manmade whatever. Because of the shedding of the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, we can all go directly to God as a result of our right standing before Him. We have the necessary way to be priests before a Holy God. We no longer need Old Testament priests between God and man, representing man to God.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

Gen.6:11-12 “The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.” - Luke 17: 28, 29 “Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. 29 But on the day that Lot came out of Sod´om it rained fire and sulphur from heaven and destroyed them all.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@FatherOfKnowledge - In this context; The kingdom is "among you," that is, it is present in the Person and ministry of Jesus. The Kingdom had already begun as Jesus teaches, gathers disciples, and exercises God's authority here on earth. In the sense of the Kingdom being "among" or "in the midst" of the Pharisees in his own person. The Kingdom is present within us by Jesus' Spirit’ the indwelling spirit.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

(02) I know JWs more or less don't read or view other peoples belief systems; but you can’t really refute what others believe unless you know what they believe in the first place. There is nothing anti JW on my channel. The videos I mentioned are about “Kingdom...the visible King and his invisible Kingdom; its future realization, its future consummation, its future fulfilment. There are two kingdoms. There is the material kingdom, there is the spiritual kingdom.

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan "while in fact Russell noticed that those specific verses only spoke of death, not of hell and eternal fiery torment." Of course they do. Solomon was full of earthly wisdom, not spiritual wisdom.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

2Ti 2:23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. - 2Ti 2:16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,- Eph 5:4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. - Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

2edgedsw0rd - “1 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. 2 For YOU yourselves know quite well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.” Thessalonians 5:1- 2 (NWT) - Have the "Last Days" come as a thief in the night? Please correct me if I am wrong - JWs say Christ Presents (Second Coming) and the "Last Days" are the same time period (same thing - same event) from 1914 onwards ending in Armageddon - is that correct?

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@Sabianfan First heaven - The firmament, Earths Atmosphere - which is the immediate sky, where the “fowls of the heaven” (Genesis 2:19; 7:3,23; Psalms 8:8, etc.), (Lamentations 4:19), it is our atmosphere that surrounds the earth. Gen 1:14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night.” The first heaven consists of the clouds and the atmosphere, the heavens above us, until we come to the stars

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd- Notice Matt 24: 14 " And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." - One distinct indicator that will signify the nearness of Christ's return is when the gospel of the kingdom is proclaimed throughout the whole world, that is, to all nations (plural of Gk. ethnos, “nation, people”), a task that began with Jesus' command in Matt 28:19.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is saying that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his/her life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his/her life, then he/she likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).

[@rpierre777]

2 ~ @Sabianfan "Then why would the second death only be spiritual?" There are two deaths-spiritual and physical. Now, the one thing that you seem to miss is that after the physical death, there's judgment. So, if there are two physical deaths, then there are two judgements.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd - Please read full context :(NWT 1 Cor:15 20 - 23) - 20 However, now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep [in death]. 21 For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.

[@arnie365]

@1biblestudent "Christendom makes no effort to rid itself of its pagan influences but rather embraces them and makes excuses for them" OH U MEAN LIKE THE PAGANLY DERIVED 1914 DATE. GOTCHA! NOW THAT MAKES SENSE!

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan "Nothing? Then how on earth must the good news of the kingdom be preached my friend?" The "how" is not defined by one method at all in scripture (which was my point originally). Rm 10:15 isn't about the "work of the hands" but that of the "feet". Paul said, "I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." (1 Cor 9:22) (continue...)

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

8. At the end of the age, the church's opponents will intensify persecution, but Jesus, the triumphant Word of God, will defeat and destroy all his enemies; the old heaven and earth, stained by sin and suffering, will be replaced by the new heaven and earth; and the church will be presented as a bride in luminous purity to her husband, the Lamb.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd - Christ was inaugurated as King (at Pentecost 2000 years ago) in His first coming as a Human. In the Future as the Visions of Revelation point out Rev 11 :17 (ESV) saying, “We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, who is and who was, for you have taken your great power and begun to reign”. The elders (in the Revelation Visions) celebrate a day still future for them and us, when God and his Christ will have begun their unchallenged reign by judging the dead - - -

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd - The “Last Days” end when this happens Matt 24: 30 "And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity. .

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

Rev. 12:5 - This male child, the promised Messiah who is born to rule all the nations with a rod of iron (Ps. 2:9), is not destroyed by the dragon but is exalted to God's throne ( Acts 2:33-36; Rev. 3:21). The second vision (Rev 12:7-17) will reveal that the Messiah's suffering was integral to his victory (Rev 11; 5:9-10). The “rod of iron” (also Rev 2:27; 19:15) is not a royal scepter (as in some translations) but the shepherd's club, here used to shatter the nations like pottery (Ps. 2:9).

[@arnie365]

@Sabianfan HERE R THE QUOTES-By his spirit, the holy spirit, Jehovah God guides or leads his people up to a certain point of time, and thus he did until the time when "the comforter" was taken away, which would necessarily occur when Jesus, the Head of his organization, came to the temple and gathered unto himself those whom he found faithful when he, as the great Judge, began his judgment, in 1918. (Preservation, 1932, p.193-194) THERE R MORE IF U WANT THERE IS EVEN A VIDEO IF U WANT?

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@Sabianfan (03) Satan’s ultimate expulsion from heaven is described in Rev 12:7-12. Satan was not barred from heaven or the earth after his first rebellion, which predated the creation. In Job 1:1-2:8, he appears before God to accuse Job of ulterior motives in his worship of God. In Zechariah 3, he again appears before God to accuse Joshua, the High Priest. He visited the Garden of Eden and tempted Eve. He tempted Jesus in the wilderness; Matt: 1-11 etc.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@Sabianfan QUOTE: 1 day ago): >"The Kingdom is present within us by Jesus' Spirit’ the indwelling spirit” Is that all? How about the "government" thing"? If the Kingdom would only be present within people ... Daniel 2:44 & Luke 1:33 wouldn't be necessary.” - Hi Richard; good to see you back in action. This is in addition to the “Government Thing”,unison with, think I mentioned that in my previous notes earlier about the Kingdom (see two days ago +) I have given up trying to explain it (LOL).

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

"signs during Christ's parousia" (06) Jehovah God knows everything. He know everything in the present time Hebrews 4:13 "And there is not a creation that is not manifest to his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him with whom we have an accounting." The Father knows the future. The May 15, 1982 Watchtower pg 7 says "...Jehovah has proved himself to be the God who does know the future, including that of human governments."

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan (continue...) So, whatever method someone uses is sufficient to the glory that's revealed. Knocking on doors is NOT the commandment nor the recommended way. It is a preferred way for JW's and Mormons. Biblically speaking, no one is NOT keeping the commandment to preach when they don't knock on doors.

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan (...continue) So, if we were to exhume their graves, would their bodies be gone, or still in the grave? If the bodies are still there, how can they be in heaven if they are no more than their bodies? See, their beliefs about the 144,000 contradict what they believe about death and the soul.

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan Yes, the sense is that it is not by man's standards of justice that God is just. That would be the same as saying God should forgive us and keep giving us more chances instead of administring judgement at all. We cannot use Rev 7:10 to try to explain this away, unless we are equivilating the devil with death and hades. Just as JW's do with Rev 21. They take the condition of the people literal (vs 4), but take the conditions of the city figurative (vs 23). So, then,...(continue)

[@rpierre777]

01:46 ~ "Why the change from 2008 to 2012?" Well, people, or groups change these dates as an alternative to admitting they were wrong, and that God did not reveal these things to them. So, they can claim that they just misunderstood what God revealed.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@2edgedsw0rd - Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:3: “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Christ taught the same thing in Luke 17:20 when, in response to the Pharisees’ question, when the kingdom of God should come, He said, “The kingdom of God cometh not with observation.” The kingdom comes without “observation” in that the manner of its coming is invisible. (Please Note: all the above is not in place of (instead of) the future Paradise Earth etc)

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

I will continue to us the JW 1914 Kingdom for illustration purposes only. As mentioned already below; using yourself as an example: During the course of a Month as a JW, you go to the Kingdom Hall, you go out on Field Service, and you study WT literature and the Bible, you frequently fellowship with other JW believers, your whole life (your mind, heart and actions) is controlled by the JW 1914 Kingdom.

[@arnie365]

@Sabianfan " Are you listening to Paul's words while yearning to destroy the WTS at the same time?" ALL I`M DOING IS FULFILLING 2 PT 2: 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has NOT BEEN SLEEPING.

[@arnie365]

@1biblestudent IT WOULD`NT LET ME POST THE LINKS BT IT COOL COS I`M GOING TO MAKE A VIDOE ABOUT IT. PL TELL ME Y THE WTS USES SUBLIMANAL IMAGES IN THEIR PUBLICATIONS WITH WICKED CONOTATIONS?

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan That's great he said that, however, his doctrine doesn't match up with the scriptures, though. Being just, wise, loving, and powerful is not defined by what seems right to man.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@Sabianfan 1 Cor.15:44-47 Paul's contrasts between “natural” and “spiritual” a contrast between which is temporally alive and that which has an eternal existence with God (cf. 2:14-3:3). Gen. 2:7, Paul explains God created Adam from the dust, animated him with breath. Christ is the last Adam, and his resurrection gave him a spiritual and therefore imperishable body (cf. Phil. 3:21). By spiritual body Paul does not mean an immaterial body but a body animated and empowered by the Holy Spirit..

[@rpierre777]

@Sabianfan "What does it say about Gods heart regarding the burning of people??" Also, God talking about the overall burning your kids unto false gods in Jer 32:35.

[@DoveNiki]

I find it funny how different sects go to great length in pinpointing how other religious beliefs are ridiculous rather than to question religion all together...

[@1biblestudent]

@FatherOfKnowledge .The contents of which you left out bears the same thought as more recent articles: He (Jesus) is the principal Inheritor of the earth. (Ps. 2:8; Matt. 11:29; Heb. 2:8, 9) However, mild-tempered “joint heirs with Christ” share in his inheritance of the earth. (Rom. 8:16, 17)(Dan. 7:13, 14, 22, 27) In the earthly realm of Jesus’ Kingdom, many other meek ones will enjoy everlasting life.-Ps. 37:10, 11. (Matt. 25:34, 46) W 09 2/15 p.6-7 & W 09 3/15 p.11

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

2edgedsw0rd - "The day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night." And that leaves us with the question, what is this "day of the Lord" ? How are we to understand it? What is it? It is one of the most important terms in the Bible repeating over and over very explicit events to come. It talks about God's future judgment, the "day of the Lord" refers to the most cataclysmic final judgment of God on the wicked.

[@FatherOfKnowledge]

@Sabianfan The Bible speaks of three heavens not 7 and these are not dimensions. The first being our immediate atmosphere, the second is outer space as far as it stretches, and the third is the place where God himself dwells. What Jesus called the “Father's house.”

[@JahsProphecy]

Why do they have a "thumbs down" button for comments if it doesn't work? I wish KZbin would fix that.