Room Correction EQ: How it Affects Loudspeaker Performance

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This is part 2 of our Room Correction (EQ) discussion on it's impact on sound in your home theater. We take a close look at how equalization from room correction affects the frequency response of your loudspeakers to determine if it is beneficial or detrimental to good sound.
See part 1 of Room Correction here:
• Does Room Correction (...
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#roomcorrection #sound #EQ

[@kevinweithers1223]

Matthew Poes, you are a Super bright young man and I love to hear you speak. You have a bright future in the industry.

[@PoesAcoustics]

kevin weithers thanks. Hopefully I’ll be around a while longer.

[@adamjj85]

A room EQ comparison of all the systems out there would be awesome info!

[@PremjitTalwar]

For me, this is the best forum on the web about audio. I studied acoustics some forty years ago and worked closely with Pro Audio companies for about 10 years. I love that your findings are consistent with what I know, plus I learn something new. Hats off to both of you.

[@nonametofame]

I learned a lot from these two videos and will be experimenting with my Dirac house curves soon. I would say there's a quite a steep learning curve to all this, but this is definitely, critical, essential discussion. My main takeaway is that you have to fundamentally discard your previous biases. I think "trust your ears," might have to be abandoned if you want to go down this rabbit hole. Because what you have been conditioned to like is actually the sound of distortion, boosted sound, and a very uneven frequent response.

[@timalanthwaite4759]

Your best video so far; thank you for a very informative session.

[@boblawrence37]

Utilized Anthem ARC in my system and it absolutely brought to life my 5.1 that I have used for a long time. Game changer.

[@jarodreddig63]

Enjoyed this discussion. I use Audyssey XT32 with the companion app. I found it worked best the better my room set-up and acoustics became: as said on the video it’s icing on the cake.

[@philipbtz]

Another great video! Playing around with Dirac for years I've found the same thing. I use Dirac under about 250Hz with multi sub and use acoustic treatment for everything above that. Speakers and room are still number one!! To me Dirac is a convenience thing where I don't need to rebuild my room to fix the bass and it works really well when multiple subs are used. Also the really bad crossover filters used in a lot of receivers can be mitigated by using Dirac so that the crossover region is fixed - this is the advantage of having Dirac in the AVR. I have not found the miniDSP units to be transparent enough on top of the fact that you typically don't do the crossovers in those unless you buy multiple large units to handle all speakers($$$$).

[@isaacsykes3]

Based of everything that was discussed, what I would love to see is just like you're doing the Audioholics smart home, is Gene and Matt walk into a bare room and set it up from start to finish. Gear selection; furniture; speaker placement; acoustic treatments; measurements; corrections, and finally listening. Make it an entire series, maybe even a contest where they do it in someone's home 😉 (who knows maybe this guy, who's a patron) I don't know, I'm just saying. I think that would be awesome and very comprehensive.

[@tpobrienjr]

I am happy with the self-adjustments that YPAO did in my system, which is an imperfect listening room. When a movie or TV show has dimensional effects (helicopters, for instance), it really shines.

[@bjorn2fly]

I dont own a surround system, but learned a lot from this. Will buy/use LF-only dsp from now on.

[@QuicksilverSG]

Thank you for your detailed testing of automated room equalization of high-end home theater systems. I'm currently working with a much larger system - a custom-built three-way line-array surround sound system in a 450-seat theater. We use a dbx Venu360 crossover to manage the front LCR speakers, and a dbx DriveRack PA2 to handle the subwoofers. I've used dbx calibration mics with the dbx Venu360's auto-EQ feature four times on the midrange and high-frequency line-array drivers (after EQ'ing the subs manually). Each time I've tried the dbx auto-EQ, I've gotten different graphic EQ results, which sounded noticeably different as well. After watching these two in-depth videos, I've gained more insight on how these discrepancies arise. My conclusion is that the lack of reliable means to objectively verify the results of automated room equalization makes it risky to blindly rely on the results they produce. I know from hands-on experience that a flat frequency response is far from optimal for the types of audio programs we amplify in this venue. In practice, what counts is identifying the low-end room modes that produce uneven bass coverage and suppressing mid-range peaks that are prone to feedback. Identifying these problems takes hands-on experimentation with calibration mic positions and careful evaluation of the effects of manually-adjusted graphic and parametric EQ.

[@AntoG4RS]

Great video, especially in the final take outs!

[@marcfoss7687]

Great video guys, really insightful and helpful. Would really like your help on helping me to set up a room EQ in my small listening room. Kinda have a preference for DIRAC given what I have heard/read about them. Also, a review of the major EQ players would be super helpful! Thanks again.

[@jimshaw899]

Matt, you hit another home run. I found the information given to be entirely informative. My general takeaway is that you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Another takeaway is that you can do some significant good at lower frequencies, you can also misuse EQ to do considerable harm. A third is that, while digital systems can change music reproduction, there's a lot positive they cannot do -- and some things they can make much worse. I have this question: As a *strictly* music 2.1 listener, is there a compelling reason to use EQ at all? Currently, I use conventional tone controls to cover really *bad* recordings. Also: Isn't it better to hear less treble or bass than bad treble or bass? Along this line of chancy technological thinking, I am *considering* inclusion of a 4 segment manually variable control -- specifically the Schiit "Loki" device to better correct for bad recordings -- you know, the ones where the violins sound bowed with sandpaper, and horn section gets overly guttural. I have good speakers (Klipsch), the room works well, and my ears sort out the effects of the room well. It is just to make the many pretty terrible classical recordings from the 50s, the 80s, and the 90s sound reasonably musical that I am planning this. As a calibration, current recordings from about 2000 onward, vinyl, CD, and streamed, sound terrific with no fudging. Once again, thanks for sharing this bridge between acoustic physics and digital audio reproduction.

[@kirkcunningham6146]

I do it the old school way. A Radio Shack SPL Meter, a test CD and graph paper. Setting a reference level at 1k and while going through each basic test tone on the cd, i record the levels of each tone on graph paper. This gives me a basic point of reference. Then i set up my peq accordingly using negative peq to correct peaks in my room frequency response relative to my listening position. I have a 50hz hump problem that I've corrected and a few minor peaks in the midrange and 4k. I programmed my eq in the problem ranges where i can make immediate changes if i want depending on the recording. It sounds great and toggling the eq in and out exposes the difference with the correction favored. Im always playing around with eq because the recordings of music are all over the place. You can also use this method for home theater by isolating each speaker pair in a 5.1 or 7.1...its not perfect but this is a down and dirty method that we used to do in the 80's and 90's that works well. It gets you in the ballpark.

[@Sensi1995]

Thanks for this! amazing info.

[@bogroll1881]

Thanks so much 20 years and only now do I understand - I have owned processors with Audessy and Dirac thinking the EQ made a big difference until a fault meant I bought an Audiolab processor as an interim this has no EQ however it sounds great and I have stuck with it

[@FURognar]

I have used Audyssey for about a decade now. In my case its a living room system with no room treatments and an open floor plan (opens to a dining room which itself is open to a kitchen). Audyssey has made a positive impact on the sound of my system. I have extensively used the Audyssey Editor app and have made use of the filters but in my case it didnt seem to make a big difference. (I had it EQ 500hz and below) I have wide dispersion Infinity speakers and Sony Core speakers as my surrounds. One thing I noticed is that when I run Audyssey, the soundstage and imaging improves dramatically, which is then further improved when I activate Dynamic EQ loudness compensation. The Infinity's already have a wide soundstage but it becomes VERY wide when Audyssey is activated. How I do my setup is I follow the Dolby or THX setup suggestions for my speakers, most especially the equilateral triangle between the front speakers and the MLP. I then do a manual calibration (old skool with SPL meter) and make sure everything sounds as good as possible, including multi-sub setup to widen the listening area for the sub-bass. THEN I run Audyssey and do A/B/C comparisons with Audyssey off, Audyssey On, then On with DEQ. In my case almost every time there has been an improvement, and in my current situation, its a fairly significant improvement. The width of the soundstage is what is most dramatically effected along with the bass of course. I then add a house curve to the bass as a final adjustment using the Audyssey Editor app curve editor and that works very well. I only boost it a few db since I tend to leave DEQ on and that too provides a house curve to the bass. When all is said and done, it sounds fantastic. When I go to set up a dedicated room, I will probably do a full manual EQ and not rely on auto-EQ, but then again I will be able to implement room treatments and probably wont need quite nearly so much compensation.

[@tedmanasa907]

Awesome. I’d love to see a comparison of the different room correction systems, including the new REW Pro with UMIK-X.

[@elongatuspiranha]

With Dirac in my room and system it definitely makes my system sound better. Sounds clearer, dialogue clearer, imaging more focused, and etc.

[@dominikalbers6983]

I just have really poor speaker placement off my 2.1 System in our living/dinnigroom (wall unit with books, TV, etc...). So i went with an minidsp and dirac live. And i love that remote were you can turn on/off the eq. When i turn it of the Center Image collapse.... but i find it bit to bright.... and thats because i tried to compensate up to 17k! After this video i changed it to 6k and followed the naturel roll off. Sounds much better👍! Thanks guys for sharing your Information

[@RXP91]

This tech chap is legit. Thanks so much

[@Tearial311]

I’m very impressed with AccuEQ Advanced over Auddysey. Just switched to an Onkyo from a Denon

[@gastonarevalo1237]

Really good information and high level presentation

[@johnthornton3863]

Appreciate these high level tech discussions

[@gabe60153]

Please do the comparison between all the room eq flavors.

[@mparkin1989]

Thanks for the education in this and other videos! I’m a little unsure what to do for my setup. If I don’t have budget for quality speakers and my “theater room” is just my living room (not an ideal shape), is it not worth buying a 5.1 system? Should I just do a 2.1 sound bar? The way you guys discussed all the variable in the video left me feeling a bit like I wouldn’t be able to get quality sound in my room with my budget.

[@Azzy_Mazzy]

This was nice but it lacked information on what to do, it was mostly don’t do this, don’t do that , be careful with this and that. Ok then what should I do? How do I EQ my system correctly? How do I measure the listing window and could I do it in room? How to know which house curve to use on my system? This video ends up confusing more than revealing.

[@PoesAcoustics]

If you watch both videos you will see that I specifically note that the average consumer cannot measure the listening window of a speaker accurately on their own. The purpose of this video was to highlight a problem with auto room correction that most would not realize are true. I also stated in this second video that my suggestion is to buy good speakers with pretty Spin-o-Rama charts, optimize the setup, and the only use auto eq as icing on the cake. As for specific eq suggestions, I noted that I personally like DIRAC when done correctly. But to make sure the target curve doesn’t attempt to extend the bandwidth of the speaker but instead follows the natural response of the speaker. Specific reviews of eq or how-to’s was something we suggested as a future project. It was not meant to be a part of this. I wanted to dispel the myths that auto-eq fixes cheap speakers or bad setup.

[@Azzy_Mazzy]

Matthew Poes couldn’t you take the speaker outside and measure them there, like the method you guys do? Sadly right now I can’t afford speakers with pretty Spin-o-rama charts but I’m planning to get something like DIYSG HTM-12 it has great on and off axis measurements and it fits my budget.

[@PoesAcoustics]

azzy mazzy you can but you need to know how to do it correctly. You need a quality microphone and proper rig. I use a piece of 6.5’ aluminum DJ rigging with a baseplate and top turntable. You could also use a ladder. You need to measure it precisely at 5 degree intervals. Then process the data. The HTM-12 has pretty Spin-o-Rama charts. I’ve heard them many times. Matt grant is a friend. I am a fan of those speakers.

[@Azzy_Mazzy]

Matthew Poes is there an article on how to do it correctly and will cross spectrums lap’s Umik-1 will good enough for it? I’m not going to review speakers just trying to do some EQ. Do you think there is a better speaker than HTM-12 for around the same price +/- $50

[@jnagarya519]

What you DO is what you DON'T do.

[@johnvore]

Love this topic. I love my Yamaha 3070 but sometimes I think it makes my speakers worse using the EQ. Compare them all.

[@eran1081]

great stuff guys! will you ever do such video for roomperfect and trinnov? can be interesting to see the results.

[@jeffsloane8628]

MultiSub is mentioned yet again! Gene, Audioholics and SVS are caring the torch to consumers on the benefits of multi sub setups. I'd like to recommend that you do another video, a .2 if you will (pun intended), and go point by point on the benefits of multi sub. This should start with the importance bass plays on our perception/enjoyment of sound briefly presented in this video. Thanks again for all your hard work.

[@justinzamora6553]

Home Theater Gurus has an excellent video tutorial about multisubs. kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXKZmIN5mN-bq7c

[@gwapster13]

Ears don’t lie. Audyssey improves my system in my imperfect room, so I’m happy. I don’t have to convince myself why it should or shouldn’t.

[@Simplektis]

limiting the correction to 400hz via the Audyssey app is the best compromise really :)

[@AdryDoic]

it's curious how many points of this discussion have ben effectively included in last Adyssey MultiEQ X and does really the difference now ! for the rest this two episodes was really nice and such interesting that i wish there was even more . specifically a little deeper into reference curve and how to do it correctly. thank you

[@diskreet]

I'd love to see a comparison on the different options out there. At least the common ones. But you're right, it's a big project if you use a few different rooms and speakers to get the data you need to be definitive (if that's even possible). Ideally the output would be an algorithm or best practices we can reference to decide when to use it, which settings to use, and so on

[@PoesAcoustics]

If I do this project, and I want to, it won’t go that far. I simply couldn’t test in multiple rooms. This has been on my wish list for a while. I previously reached out and secured promises of product for the experiments but didn’t have time. Still don’t. Hoping to recruit some help and move it along this summer.

[@diskreet]

@@PoesAcoustics makes sense, it's a huge undertaking. Hopefully the more focused scope allows you to do it well. Good luck!

[@datka3]

Martin Logan speakers do similar it runs amplified base that is Dsp and Eq controlled and rest runs from your amplifier straight without eq , so its best of both worlds , ARC

[@josegazal701]

As far as I know, since Sonarworks is usually used in near field monitors (and sometimes with thick absorbers for reasonably implemented reflection free zone), the flaws in the speakers’ directivity do not affect the listening window so much...

[@shopnines]

very well done. thx

[@hx3r1]

Minidsp for my dual sub setup in the living room and basement,i use it to improve modals below 120hz. Otherwise i keep it simple because i have 10years old recievers both places,so only eq on mains below 150hz on the worst modals. On the highs rarely any eq on my eqipment its old so i rather dont,so if i do only for tonal balance if it sounds too bright,either through tone control or in worst case a really low Q value around 8-10khz.

[@stevelepley3149]

I use a mcacc from Pioneer and SPL for set up and woks well for me

[@mikecorrea7053]

Gene, glad to hear you are feeling better. Very good discussion and confirming my views on EQ. While room EQ is supposed to correct room acoustics and create a flat response from the speaker. Our ears do not listen in a flat frequency response. With age our ears listen differently, young ears versus old ears. I have used several EQs in the past but find myself making corrections to something that sounds good to me. I feel EQ gets me about 80% there and the other 20% is listener specific. I currently have a Pioneer elite VSX-90 with MCACC Pro. I have run MCACC Pro many times and I find myself having to go back and make adjustments to it. I get the biggest gains in sound quality from setting the time delay correctly and setting the levels correctly.

[@amazingsnow]

Glad you are feeling better love your content. The propeller hat has to come off for us non NASA rocket doctors. How do we use the feature and get the best possible sound . I have a new pioneer elite and all Polk Lsim speakers what do I do

[@audioreviewchannel3365]

Great topic and very informative like always! I use Audyssey xt32 with Kef R series and two SVS Sb3000 subwoofers. Only care about the bass integration because the speakers are good enough. For this reason I limit the correction curve at 500Hz

[@SorikuXIII]

Do you use Audyssey Reference or Flat, and Dynamic EQ on or off?

[@rosstee]

I have xt32 and Kef speakers too. What receiver/processor are you using, and how do you limit the curve to below 500Hz?

[@audioreviewchannel3365]

@@SorikuXIII reference, dinamic eq on

[@audioreviewchannel3365]

@@rosstee I have Marantz 7013. You can only do this with the newer receivers and you must download/pay the app on your smartphone

[@rosstee]

@@audioreviewchannel3365 Ok thanks, I have the Denon 4500 which is still less than 2 years old so perhaps it can do the same.

[@davidlevine5773]

After a few tries, I just decided that room compensation was distorting my sound, and turned it off. I have decent speakers and a subwoofer, and adjusted the subwoofer level by ear.

[@marcusdibenedetto7958]

Loved this EQ discussion and Matthew Poes is a fantastic addition to Audioholics! BUT! It was depressing. I had a much higher opinion of Audyssey. Based on this discussion and many Audyssey users, I now use the Audyssey App for EQ. I am trusting Audyssey to correctly "time align" all my speakers and subwoofers and set SPL. Using the app, I limit correction to 500 Hz. I select Audyssey FLAT and turn off everything else (MRC, DEQ, etc). Marantz AV8805, Parasound A52+, SVS Ultra surround bookshelf and two SB13 Ultra subs. 40% movies and 60% classical music.

[@shinjiikari1989]

When calibrating should you use the standard 80hz settings

[@suschielgandhi5679]

Great video guys! What should I limit Audyysey MulEQ Filter Frequency Range in my Denon AVC A110 to when using Definitive Technology BP9060 speakers?

[@VioletGiraffe]

My two cents on full-range calibration with Audyssey XT (not XT32): my speakers have a peak right in the vocal range, I haven't bothered to measure it, but it's very obvious right away (somewhere around 1 kHz). Audyssey (Denon X2500H) took care of that very nicely. It probably still isn't a flat response, but it's night and day difference, very audible by switching into and out of the "Pure" mode.

[@SpiderMan-aa]

Great video!!!!!! Best audio content anywhere!! Big fan of you both. Even James. Lol It's unrelated but is it ok to use speaker fabric to cover my Rockwool acoustic panel? Thank you!!

[@PoesAcoustics]

Spider Man yes!

[@MikeYoungeasytravel]

What about LYNGDORF’S Room Perfect or Trinnov’s system? Can you please talk about these systems? Both seem different compared to the conversation on this video.

[@Bradimus1]

I think with these systems, much of the problem is the physical arrangement of the speakers in the room. A speaker with compromised placement is going to have a weird response. I only have ever used these systems as a baseline and I would adjust a bit after to my tastes.

[@tyroneburton2884]

Jeez some good info here. Unfortunately though with my old Denon AVR 2313 it doesn't support the Audessy Editor app which is a shame. My only options would be to either stick with Audessy curves or use either bypass left and right channels or the less accurate graphic eq in the receiver to limit the eq done to only 500hz. Not sure would the best option would be there in my case.

[@biteme263]

I have a cheaper Denon that has the simple 6 point audacy thing in it. I switch back and forth between using it and not using it. Still trying to figure out which I like better lol. This is what I have noticed. For one, I have no idea what it is doing to the speakers as far as EQ. I don't have a way to really measure it. Other than test tones and an spl meter, which I quite honestly don't trust that much. What it does seem to do fairly well is the initial set up, like you said. It does a good job at distances, delays, levels (kind of) and crossover points. SOMETIMES. I have noticed you need to check the settings because sometimes it will glitch and give some seriously messed up settings and you have to run it again. When set it up manually and compare it with the auto set up the auto version tends to sound better with multi channel material. And the manual set up sounds better with two channel music. My guess would be the auto set up must do better with delays or something? Another thing I have learned about me personally is I can't trust an spl meter when setting up levels. And to some extent the auto calibration does the same thing. Maybe my hearing is messed up. If I set it up using an spl meter or the auto calibration and then go back and listen to the levels for each speaker they are not right to my ears. I don't know if this my hearing, my brain or some room problem. I have also noticed the auto calibration sets all the levels pretty low to begin with. Like -9 and then adjusts the other speakers around that. Like most of speakers are set between -9 to -8. Is that because it is setting it so full volume would be referance level or something? Not like I would ever turn my system up that loud. Someone would murder me lol. As for what someone likes or doesn't like, well I guess its all subjective. If someone thinks room correction sounds better it is kind of hard to argue with them. You can tell them it probably isn't accurate but to their particular hearing and tastes it might be what they like. That is like telling someone they just think they like Nickleback, but really they don't.

[@TrumpWinner]

I too go from on and off, I like what it does to the sub, but not the rest of the speakers. I find that just leaving it off and maybe a tweak to the manual eq, gives happy results.

[@rinkrat06]

I use pioneer I've had it 11 years it's not perfect but it seems to improve the bass and vocals.

[@aingerunieto5734]

I have a Denon 4500 and Audissey broke the suspensions of the speakers. I had to learn how to fix it.Manually setup took me months, speaker placement the most. Hope you get better. Spain is getting worse.

[@59seank]

Best wishes to Spain. I hope the Coronavirus fades quickly.

[@peterotremba8980]

I find that room correction is much more important in larger rooms. I heard a home theater system that doesn’t have any eq applied and yet it sounded like you where listening to tweeters even though the speakers are rule flat in a anichoic chamber. The room was massive and echoed a lot so the treble was heavy amplified and the bass was sucked out. Room correction or eq are required in really bad rooms.

[@PoesAcoustics]

I think it’s useful or not equally in any sized room. Large rooms with longer RT’s can’t really be corrected with EQ. Reflections can’t be corrected using current SIMO type EQ (DIRAC and the like). Only advanced MIMO eq can actively change the rooms acoustics and that isn’t a viable market product right now.

[@rodneyarnoldi]

Hello, interesting video. I have been using direct live for many years, first with my TDL Reference Standard monitors and later with my PMC Twenty5.26 speakers. Here is my personal experience comparing Direct live with Audyssey XT32 (Marantz AV), I found that Direct was adding something to the sound, but difficult to explain what it is, perhaps some kind of phasing problem? I’m not sure. I have not had this experience with Audyssey. Here is another example why I prefer Audyssey: My speakers are set either side of a projector screen and when watching a video with someone speaking, I found Direct live made the voice sound “detached” from the picture. Audyssey XT32 does not have this odd effect. My main reason in using Audyssey is to iron out a peak at 32 Hz which it seems to do nicely. Having listened to your video I might try restricting Audyssey to the bass end only rather than full range. Thanks.

[@TrumpWinner]

So after listening to this, I’m gonna set up my audysyss on denon again. But this time I’m gonna sit in the listening position manually holding the mic and directing it at each speaker as they chirp, see what results that then gives me.

[@paulroscelli2545]

I know this is a more expensive EQ system, but I would love to hear what your take is on room perfect by Lingdorf.

[@PoesAcoustics]

Paul Roscelli roomperfec isn’t really any more advanced or more expensive than DIRAC or Audyssey. I’ve used it. I like it. I like DIRAC better.

[@ericnortan9012]

Do they even make quality HiFi equalizers anymore? I know they sell pro EQs. I built a pair of garage speakers and had a hard time finding one. Finally found an old pioneer 7 band from 2003. Definitely not high end, works for the garage. Sometimes I would love to have one, but only something really good for limited use.

[@mechtheist]

Towards the end, y'all got into an issue that worries me and I've had a hard time finding data for--what are the real-world signals that get fed to the various surround channels. Searching, it's easy to find that the signals are full-range, but that is a frequency response thing, what about the dynamic range the surround speakers need to reproduce? By far, most surround systems you see will have 2 large fronts and the rest small, even tiny speakers. Even the setup I had, DefTech with their largest center speaker, that center had one less tweeter and one less midrange than my tower mains, that is a significant drop in overall power handling capability. I looked at the channel sound tracks of samples of 2 movies and found the center channel had higher peaks and higher average sound level than the front left and rights did, the surrounds, the basic 5.1 channel surrounds, looked to be at least 3-5 dB down in peak and average. That was a very cursory look at this issue, do you know how representative that is of movies in general? The mention here and in your 80Hz crossover video where Gene mentioned something about surround speakers having similar dynamic capabilities are the only mentions I've found of this. Most surround systems don't qualify, not even close. And, I'm not talking about systems of a lot of your listeners or audiophiles in general but the usual systems marketed and sold. Such systems, with large fronts and small surrounds, especially crappy centers, are set up to not only sound bad but make it likely to constantly over-stress the surrounds.

[@niklasmagnus]

Hi Matt, Great video! (Maybe this q was already answered but can find I be low.) I’m running multi sub and manually PEQ using Minidsp. I just purchased a second hand NAD T777 and planing to upgrade with Dirac (default

[@robsinden100]

I’m in the UK and over here it seems the topic of room correction is much more hotly debated. I think your video must have a follow up. I don’t regard Yamaha or Pioneers systems as having much value. Audyssey is 15 years old and Dirac is still clearly a work in progress but I think is the best of this bunch. Any review on the subject should include ARC, Trinnov and RoomPerfect each of which will give better results than any of the systems mentioned in the videos. One important difference between RoomPerfect and all other correction systems is its measurement process. The first reading fires the mic at the speakers. This allows it to understand the characteristics of the speakers used and the particular acoustic properties of that room. Then the full height, width and length of the room is measured as acoustics are a 3D problem. With this data the system can create a target response that is unique to your speakers and your room. As other systems don’t capture this information, all they can do is change the speakers to an “idealised response”. Because of this, RoomPerfect is the only system I’d recommend for use in a high-end stereo or wherever great speakers are used - so their performance isn’t changed. One suggestion I have for you when testing these systems is not to just turn them on and off with movie content to see what effect they are having. The fewer speakers used, the more critical you will be in hearing differences. I use a pair of professional headphones and take them on and off mid track on stereo. The systems here using RoomPerfect sound tonally almost identical to the phones.

[@adrianadrianp5305]

Great to see the Trinnov system, ARC, Room Perfect and ASPEQT evaluated

[@SwirlingDragonMist]

I feel like these technologies are still in their infancy. What we really need are measurement standards used industry wide to create a database of speakers, and microphones that we can then let the software developers loose on. It’s also ripe for machine learning, imagine a microphone which is always logging data from your system which over time can run small experiments and refine it’s correction to best suit your listening habits. So if it had to make a choice, it could choose the corrective option that best suited the content you watch. Because your rooms biggest issue might not come up as often as the lesser issue which resonates with the lead characters voice in your favorite show. Optimizing for the most frequently detected errors in your real world usage.

[@michaelweinstein3056]

Absolutely: much more technology can be brought to bear on this "problem". I put that in quotes because, like a lot of the latest and greatest features on new products it's hard to discern whether or not the feature addresses an actual problem or provides an incentive for the consumer to upgrade. #TeamGene ;-)

[@SwirlingDragonMist]

Mike Weinstein I’m more of an acoustic treatment fan myself for addressing this “problem” which I do feel is a problem. But likewise the treatment is sometimes worse than the disease. Acoustic treatments often overpromise and underdeliver, (seems to be a common thread in the audio industry) allot of it is also the consumer being overly optimistic making it easy to be misled by spokesmen selling false hope, but I would love even more an advancement in acoustic technologies than in corrective software. It may be time for the the construction industry to step up to the plate, so that rooms are easier to work with from the outset.

[@isak6626]

I have a question regarding how our ears work compared to a measurement microphone. I recently set up a new system with the surrounds at about 90 degrees. That is, they point straight into the ears when seated. How do our ears pick up sound coming straight into them compared to sound coming from the front or behind us? If it's not the same, how do we correct for that? Should I e.g. lower the level of those surrounds compared to the fronts and rear surrounds?

[@HaraldMacGerhard]

hey guys, thx a lot for really interesting discussion. It really pinpoints that there are no shortcuts skimping on quality. I am thinking of a Trinnov based pre for a music only Stereo system. These come with a pretty hefty price tag but I am thinking it's probably a good as a digital correction system gets. Some guys also use the Trinnov multi channel systems to run fully active speaker setup and with possibly individual correction for each sub... seems pretty hefty. Do any of you guys have any experience with Trinnov Amethyst or Trinnov Altitude 16or 32?

[@russellrafferty855]

Doesn't Linn measure all of their, and other companies', speakers in an anechoic chamber before developing a correction curve?

[@magnusdanielsson2749]

I have a Marantz with MultEQ. Only use it for the bass on the fronts. I use it fullrsnge for the surrounds. They have small fullrange driver wich get better freq response. But I also wonder if the eq improves phase so the surround effects sound better. One thing I do not like is that the eq stops at 20 hz. Id like for it to extend to atleast 10. Also it lacks proper control of the curve. Also it cant compensate for closed boxes with high f3. It seems better at reducing lvl rather than boosting wich is a good safety measure for sure.

[@sds4810]

What do you guys feel about ANTHEM ARC EQ currently in comparison to Dirac

[@ericnortan9012]

Question: my Onkyo TX RZ820 has 3 presets for EQ. I used auto calibration on channel 1, used for movies. I manually adjust 2 and 3 for music. My receiver EQ has 15 bands but only allows you to mess with 9. I listen music from a good source so I don't really make too many tweaks. In fact ch 2, I run flat like direct so I can use my 2 subs with basically a direct signal (it only plays fronts in direct or pure audio) I just thought it odd, why not just a 9 band?

[@1165mac]

In my system Audyssey never fails to thin out the sound too much. I’m crossing over at 80Hz and have two subs. Sound is much richer and expansive sounding without Audyssey. I occasionally use Dynamic Volume to clear up the dialogue, but use it without turning Audyssey on.

[@ROYALTYMB]

My in room response has the same dip from about 200hz to 500hz as Matthew. what causes that? will audyssey xt32 help that?

[@joelane4670]

Question(s)..on the speakers it has #/- 3 dB? What does that mean?.also,I have new speakers that go down to 110 Hz, audyssey set them for 200 hz. should I leave them at 200?..or set them to 120?

[@Canadian_Eh_I]

They say phase is inaudible but I have noticed a large difference with just phase correction using a fir filter in Windows APO using rephase. check it out!!

[@Artcore103]

What do you think about the miniDSP umic-1 or 2? And room eq wizard? At least you can completely control the pass band of the suggested eq correction, and how complex it can be (like how many parametric bands or whatever). I've just started playing around with it and haven't gotten super familiar yet, but it's behavior does seem a bit odd at times, in what it tries to correct vs ignore (when given a limited number of parametric eq bands to work with).

[@Samzep]

Matt you metion in this video that you used many onkyo amp i have 929 av i only set it up for movies with rickter speakers and svs pb 2000 pro sub i use oddysy to set things up are you fan turning cross over off on sub and have the lfe 120 and all speakers on 80 ? And also oddysy set my sub in amp -2.5 db would you leave that there or put it to 0 i set my sub volume fairly high ?

[@D1Calderon]

Was the Audyssey App used? If so, is it recommended to lower the filter EQ to around 400Hz? This way everything else has no EQ?

[@TrumpWinner]

I would go lower like 250hz

[@Saturn2888]

I use YPAO and notice it tries to put everything close to 85dBC. I use the YPAO EQ and adjust all levels down to 75dBC. That's all I change.

[@analogaudiorules1724]

Could i use dirac live with foobar?

[@rayerayedidabler8636]

I know this is off topic but could you do a corona follow-up video? (like do you have any lingering symptoms?, what you took? etc)

[@Audioholics]

In couple of days called Corona Recovery or Coming Out of Isolation. Waiting on final test results.

[@biteme263]

I want to see Matt test some cables with his fancy equipment and see if any of them actually make a difference in the sound.

[@instantpasta]

Here's a zany question for you. How do you mini dsp the subs and combine that with RC without compromising the mini dsp settings?

[@radzillov]

Dirac on miniDSP sits on top of all other settings (xover, peq, delays). You can theoretically set only the xover point and then let Dirac do all the work but in practice it is much better to manually eq first and time align the subs and then let Dirac make the final small corrections towards the target you choose.

[@Free-Your-Mind.]

... Now I leave the second part, and that is that in the end I have decided to leave it for the Stereo Audyssey and in multichannel deactivate it and leave my manual EQ for my current 7.1 channels, but not before going through something ... It turns out that when you leave the Audyssey and DynamicEQ settings menu on and leave the receiver with the power button turned OFF and turn the manual EQ frequencies back on and the volume levels of each channel go out of whack and the Manual EQ goes wild , I explain: the volumes in the test tones become unstable and you cannot pick up a clear reading with the sound level meter like the frequency tones but here it is complicated because when you are measuring a frequency and more or less you get it, you are going to The next one you get, you go back to review the previous one already made and the surprise is that it is very misadjusted to the downside with what makes you increase 1dB more, you repeat the whole process and you end up with the EQ at the maximum in + 6db, I didn't even listen to it ... After this frustration, I asked myself if it is not a strategy or something similar to favor Audyssey, so it occurs to me to disconnect it in the settings menu, the issue remained the same ..., okay, I disconnected the team and In OFF position, I turn on and everything returns to normal channel volumes, Manual EQ as I had thought, curious this. So when I activate Audyssey I do it from the settings menu without making shortcuts in the shortcuts menu and remembering that always before turning off, disconnect Audyssey. For what reason would Onkyo have dispensed with this calibration and have they made their own? What was said, Audyssey in Stereo has released the 15% that this Onkyo TX-NR5009 kept and I am rediscovering in 2020 all my recordings, it is brilliantly realistic as listening to reality itself on many occasions and taking information from the recordings that I did not even know existed. and others matching with some Sennheiser HD 800S. Greetings.

[@willable5922]

I would love for you guys in this series to go over the graphs and what they mean. Waterfall graphs, directivety graphs etc. Also a video on moving speakers around, tilting speakers, other random experiments. I think it would be interesting to some subjective testing of eq and what common curves that you like. Flat, house curve, U shaped. I think it would be fun for us that like to play with our eq.

[@mattgti86]

Which AVRs have good manual PEQ? This presentation indicates manual PEQ up to 300Hz gives best improvements. Seems like auto EQ above 300Hz is a mixed bag or worse.

[@Audioholics]

Yamaha is one of few AVRS with manual PEQ.

[@sudd3660]

i like the Room Correction topic. in surround sound systems there is more need for it and at the same time more difficult to implement. in stereo systems i find that some eq software like eq apo in a streaming system is some of the best way to do things. not using microphone because as stated in this video it has limitations. for adjusting volume with your own ears at listening position its the best thing i know of. just need to google search for tone generator and you can learn a lot about how your system sounds in your room.

[@markym3870]

Do you think that using the REW room simulator can be used to help choose good starting locations for your subs and front L & R speakers to give room EQ a better starting position?

[@Audioholics]

use room simulator as a guideline but it can't account for the acoustics of your room which are not 100% rigid walls. Nothing beats actually measuring with REW and adjusting accordingly.

[@logan1966]

@@Audioholics Is it better to use the test tones from the receiver or should a test disc bluray / DVD be used to balance levels of the speakers. Would you get a more accurate response since it is coming from the player that would be playing the movie?

[@matthewbir3180]

Should a tower speaker such as the SVS Ultra paired with a Denon receiver around 90 watt RMS be set to small for front channels?

[@TrumpWinner]

Yes

[@SorikuXIII]

Hi Gene, so if I limit the EQ to 500 hz, is this recommended with Dynamic EQ on or off?

[@ericshutter5305]

DEQ unbalances surround and main channels, so off it goes.

[@martheunen]

@@ericshutter5305 THIS. I liked playing around with DEQ for my mains, but when playing games or watching movies, my surrounds were too distracting. So i just leave DEQ off now and got used to my setup in my -30 to -15 listening range. I played around with a room curve on minidsp for subs but even that i just toned down to practically flat so that when listening to -15level it's fine. I went from tinkering constantly, to just finding a happy medium (or compromise if you will) and enjoying the system.

[@TrumpWinner]

@@martheunen yeh I have a love hate relationship with DEQ, but I agree that just turning it off and forgetting about it, you will be happy. Turning it on gives you the initial wow this is better, but later trying to watch something, movies, sports etc you find yourself tinkering with it, cos it seems unnatural or makes center channel harder to hear, although it does enhance faint background noises in the scene. But ultimately off is more enjoyable, day to day, even the wife says I can hear what they are saying more clearly with it off. What I’m saying is you can enjoy all the time with off, you can also enjoy with on, but not all the time, and not without tinkering with the offset level for everything u watch.

[@d4321]

I own YPAO RSC and it's EQ is useless - it sound so thin and cold...Thank god for manual EQ on my Yammie - after few months of fiddling with it i finnaly managed to get it sound good to my ears...And sorry, my ideal curve is not flat, but a slight V letter shaped... I also owned Pioneer MCACC and again, it's EQ is useless to my ears.. I also tested older Denon Audyssey and again EQ was horrible... it just boosted mid and high frequencies without enough bass..I don't know , maybe my room or speakers are very bad or maybe my ears are strange :) . I know that a good EQ-ing can made improvement and i would very like to play with Dirac and Trinnov, but those systems are unfortunately out of my price range

[@darthvaper6745]

Question - I play flac files on JRriver software on a decent windows laptop through audioquest cables in to an HRT Music Streamer iii DAC, in to a Marantz audio HiFi amp and 2 B&W 601 speakers. Nothing fancy. My amp is a power amp only and has no EQ. But JRriver software has a ton off stuff. I always get bogged down with settings desperate to try and improve the sound...some songs sound amazing and some sound horrible it's a never ending correcting and resurrecting the settings war...any suggestions?

[@Simplektis]

DARTH VAPER you can maybe measure your frequency and phase response using a mic and REW and then develop some filters and use them in Jriver :) there should be plenty of tutorials online

[@charlestwoo]

So if I decently acoustically treat my room and focus on getting my dual bass setup calibrated and EQ'd I should be good right? ... ok so how do I do the bass EQing and all? (AVR is Marantz 8015)

[@martheunen]

Audioholics has a few videos and also articles about it. Just look for multi sub setup/calibration. Home Theater Gurus is another channel that has good info on setting up multisub. Harmann 'white papers' is a good (not too long) read about implementing multi sub.

[@Pete_or_Peter4Long]

I have the new Polk Audio Legend L800’s that you guys are reviewing. My question is with the SDA technology can room correction even b used and if so would you recommend I EQ the speakers with or without the SDA cable connected?

[@PoesAcoustics]

Mankite to be honest, I haven’t tested eq like that with it. Bass eq is certainly possible. In my opinion it is worth trying it both ways. My measurements show that the speaker is a very flat and linear speaker without the SDA activated. The response changes dramatically with it connected. It creates a small but audible tonal shift. Eq night correct it back to neutral but might also mess with the phase and reduce crosstalk cancelation or throw bad results. If that is true, simply use the correction with SDA unplugged and plug it back in when done.

[@Pete_or_Peter4Long]

Matthew Poes Coming from the Polk SRT system 20 some years ago I’ve been waiting for SDA to return. I was somewhat disappointed with the SDA effect as I remember the SRT’s having a wider soundstage and more pronounced SDA effect. I am currently using a Balanced Audio VK-6200 as my amp. After watching your unboxing video and becoming aware that my amp may be the culprit as to my disappointment in the SDA soundstage I’m excited that it may just be the amp. Back when I had the SRT’s I had the towers in front and behind me. Having SDA in front and behind me was an experience that in terms of imaging has been unmatched since. I’ve owned since the SRT’s a few high end speakers including Aerial Acoustics LR5’s, Triad Platinums, Triad Gold Lcrs, Triad Gold Monitors, Klipsch Thx Ultra 2’s, JTR Triple 8’s. They all had their pluses and minuses but for movies there was something I always missed from the SRT’s. I just assumed I was disappointed because these L800’s seem more geared towards music instead of movies and don’t have the option to set SDA to normal or wide. With movies I always used wide. But for now until I try a different amp I have hope again that these may take me back to a sound I’ve missed for over 20 years. In terms of the basics like tweeter, bass, and cabinet rigidity I have no complaints about the L800’s for the price point and think at their price point they are a great value especially if you don’t have a sub. I’ve been in this hobby a long time and it’s so hard to meet knowledgeable people that are unbiased and tell it like it is for good or bad. Great work and thanks again.

[@nboejui]

So I don't have a sub, I should set the L and R speakers as large on the receiver?

[@TrumpWinner]

No, buy a sub.

[@totalbliss1]

Saw both videos and was hoping you guys mention Room EQ Wizard (REW) and how it compares to Audyssey and Dirac. I remember it was once mentioned often but since Dirac came, it's not that relevant. Is that the case?

[@PoesAcoustics]

Johnny Blaze not really comparable. Audyssey and DIRAC are automatic FIR based correction systems. REW is just a measurement software. It isn’t an EQ. However it does include a feature to calculate IIR filters which can be used with a manual PEQ system. I use REW for much of my measurements. At this point it’s a superior measurement system to most pay softwares as long as all you need is single channel measurements. For room correction type work that is mostly fine. It isn’t comparable to DIRAC in sophistication but it’s capable of very good correction in the bass. I hear no difference. On the other hand, even John strongly recommends against the use of REW to do full bandwidth correction. Using PEQ based on in room spatially averaged measurements is a very bad idea. It will typically lead to worse performance above Fs than had you done nothing at all. REW is best for bass correction and a little fixing up to maybe 500hz. I would be very careful of anything else.

[@totalbliss1]

@@PoesAcoustics Thank you for clearing that up Matthew. I'm looking for a single system I could use that can do the much better room correction for a home theater. I have a Denon with the Audyssey xt32 but would you recommend the more expensive Dirac over that? I find with the Audyssey, I tend to do a lot of tweaking to get it to my liking. Would you say Dirac is a significant upgrade from the Audyssey?

[@PoesAcoustics]

Johnny Blaze yeah I like DIRAC better. It’s not a fix for bad speakers, but used correctly, I find it does more good than harm. I’ve had very good results with DIRAC. I must warn that DIRAC is much harder to setup. Audyssey did a really good job of making setup Easy. As a beta tester of Dirac, I had thought the problem was my use of beta products. However I’ve had similar experiences with final production products too. Many folks I know have complained as well. I mean, I ended up setting these up for various audio shops because They couldn’t get it working.

[@totalbliss1]

@@PoesAcoustics Thanks a lot. I'll stick with Audyssey and do the final tweaking. If down the future I end up buying a product that comes with Dirac, I'll figure it out then.

[@pb24dagrk]

I wish Matt or Gene would come over and calibrate/setup my room :D

[@PoesAcoustics]

Under non-pandemic times I can offer that as a service.

[@bloodcarver913]

I have a special made cinema room, with a lot of different physical solutions to create the "perfect" acoustic in the room. Turning on RC makes the dynamics worse and the sound goes slightly more artificial. Different slopes, levels of RC etc. does not negate these results. As such, I turned off my RC and have the better sound for it. If users have their system in a normal room like a living room, I can see it helping in some situations. Anyway, RC is NOT the perfect "fix-it-all" for everybody. If you configure it wrongly, the sound and esp. the bass suffers.

[@jeffm2787]

As recommended by this channel I only use Audyssey up to about 500Hz max. It does sound better to my wife which is all that matters. She has no clue what I did or didn't do to the sound.

[@Audioholics]

Happy wife, happy life 😃

[@dougbulldog9947]

Great explanations, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I understand why I should set all my speakers to small and the receiver crossover point to 80 but... when I use ypao mic to setup my Yamaha RX V473 receiver it changes all the speakers (except the center channel) from small back to large and crossover back from 80 to 120. The Yammy receiver is connected to Onkyo SKF-4800 floor-standing front speakers, Onkyo SKC-4800 center speaker, Infinity reference 5.5'' bookshelf rear speakers on stands and Sony SA-WM40 subwoofer. Do you think I should change all the speakers back to small and crossover to 80?