5 Reasons you SHOULDN'T Back - Andromeda's Edge

[@pvaughan007]

Ok, campaign finished. Who decided to brave the Edge and join us? If you came in, I'd like to prove to you why this campaign, the quality of the components and gameplay, the sheer amount of content and replay is going to be one of the best crowdfunding projects to back. If you missed it, we do still have TTS live to play and a late pledge coming - because we don't want anyone to miss it, it's soooo much harder to get the Deluxe versions if you end up liking games like this, due to high demand in the market. Thank you all for the discussion!

[@marijandesin8226]

Hello Peter. Could you please give any info on the upcoming late pledge. When will it start and how long will it last? Is there a way to receive a notification on this? Maybe through Gamefound? Thank you

[@pvaughan007]

@@marijandesin8226 hi there! The best way to get notification is on Gamefound. You can still follow the campaign, and we'll announce the late pledge via an update. It should be later in March that it opens up.

[@marijandesin8226]

Hello again You said earlier the follow-up pledge would be by the end of March but here we are April 2nd and the last uptade is still from February I kept checking every day! I hope I didn't miss it! Did I?

[@pvaughan007]

@@marijandesin8226 sorry, our team got covid in March and it slowed us down. We are preparing the late pledge, coordinating with foreign partners. If you are subscribed to Gamefound following campaign you will not miss it. We will announce late pledge soon. Thank you for the interest!

[@marijandesin8226]

@@ServiceDogPuppyRaiser Oh thank you That's horrible to hear I went through Covid together with my kids and it was no joke! I wish him a speedy recovery!! Also fyi the reply he posted to my question here just disapeared

[@michaeljoyce7548]

The box size is a knife that cuts both ways. We see it often - They make the game super dense, no real storage, no room for sleeves and everyone complains that you can't condense it into one box, can't sleeve, is a huge pile of baggies. Then they make a big box, with storage for everything, with room for all sleeves, one box to hold it all - and people complain how big a waste it is if you don't get everything, how much empty space is because they don't sleeve. You can't please everyone all the time. I guess I'd rather have the box space to consolidate and not need it than end up with multiple boxes that all need to be pulled off the shelf so I can add module A from this box and module F from the other box

[@peerm2130]

The contents of the Escalation Expansion completely fit into the Standard Edition Box! I don't know, if the card sleeves + stretch goals fit into the standard Edition, but i think so. If not, i would take out the fifth player expansion or solo player expansion. So all in one box, but with the great cover for a lower price. For me the Development minis are not worth it, because your Transporter ship is already a mini and you put a Standee on it. Its a miniature+standee and you can only have three. So why these miniatures on miniatures? The Trays (even in color) are looking terrible. You have these gorgeous player boards and it makes no sense to put those trays on the player board, so that you can't see them anymore. Its too much over deluxification! Why would anyone go for Drink Coaster or Jumbo Marbled Dice for an AI, which can't roll dice... The campaign feels like it's trying to squeeze every penny out of you and most people step into this trap. Anyway the game itself looks good.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

24:58 But at its core, both games - especially Dwellings - have a pretty basic gameplay loop: On your turn, you will either: (1) Place a unit onto the board and take an action, which is either: (A) Take a treasure token/moon token; or (B) take the action of the ruin realm/alliance base; or (2) Regroup and activate your tableau... You cannot get more simple than that - especially in comparison to other games which have huge lists of actions available - especially with an action point mechanism - in which you need to allocate your points in a certain way - such as Tikal. Everything else, including combat, stems off of that simple gameplay loop.

[@Kinert]

I've tried AE the other day and my comparison with his older brother is: -Tactic cards: in AE you have so many ways to get tactic cards free, that I feel this is the best improvement that this game made, the cards in your hand change so much and you are doing a lot of different things thank to them. -AE: is more overwhelming, you have a lot of ways to get resources and prepare to get points, I've felt that because I didn't want to get stuck in AP I've made a lot of mistakes. -Monsters: in AE monsters are around much more time because usually a lot of them have 2 Hp so you need to beat them twice, and they are dangerous even in late game. -Duration: this game is longer, even I thought it overstays a little compared to dwelling that feels very fast even ending very soon compared. -Special workers: I feel that special workers are more interesting in dwelling of eldervale, I've had some ships upgrade in my game that I've felt that I didn't had any use. -Events: the events in this games I feel they are very interesting, change a lot the board and you can plan around them to get more vp. Is one of the things that I liked more. -Resource and vp manage: in this game with the tech tracks and modules and differents "dwellings" or buildings there are a lot of ways to get vp and win. so in the end is you want one or another: -dwelling: medium weight, better special workers/units, faster and streamlined, more special permanent powers with dungeon cards, more asymmetry in combat. Better with higher number of players,. -Andromeda edge: heavy weight, more engine building and strategies to get vp, more asymmetry in managing resources/vp, less punishment for losing combat, more things to do. Better with a lower number of players.

[@pvaughan007]

Thanks for the comparison - hopefully it helped some folks decide!

[@JJ_TheGreat]

15:24 Actually, I would call them progress tracks. It isn't a tech tree, in which you go up this path and that enables you to choose between 2 other paths.

[@sirtrevis]

I very much appreciate the in-depth comments provided here. Good reading. Thank you. BTW: All-in on Andromeda's Edge. Looking for Eldervale.

[@briant2438]

I actually prefer a bigger box for standard edition... Personally I like to deluxify my games. Often times after a kickstarter is over only the regular editions are available. It is very frustrating getting deluxe components or add-ons for a game and then not having room in the box. then you have multiple boxes sitting on the shelf for one game and it makes it that much harder to transport if you are trying to take the game somewhere with must have expansions.

[@pvaughan007]

5 reasons not to watch this video, no wait.. 3.5 reason. No wait, I love it! This is my first time catching your content and I have to say, so good and entertaining. Laughed a lot here - awesome video! I love discussion. I think a lot of your points are good reasons ...to back. :) Thanks for everything except the recommendation to throw the bits into baggies.

[@pvaughan007]

I have to talk to point 2 just real quick. The chart. Btw - we made the chart to help backers... The page launched without it, and people asked for a detailed look at the components. I actually left the yellow ship because if you put a pink ship in deluxe, people will say, "wait, the standard doesn't have pink - WTF!" You'd be surprised at how hard it is to convey THIS GAME in a long scrolling page and pop up boxes on Gamefound. We're not here to deceive people in any way. We actually crammed a lot of value in the standard game, and we're super proud of that, and we ALSO have a lot of value in our deluxe copies. Flamecraft I hope proves it too. Anyway, cheers, just had to add the bonus points. Now off to make a faction with hoof hands and say "Chris George recommends this exclusive faction you cannot get anywhere else unless you have hands like him!"

[@pvaughan007]

I would love to see more replies/discussion from Room and Board here, so I can win the argument among my friends that videos like this aren't just click bait.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Haha I hope to win an argument with my friends that this isn't just comment bait ;) I do read through all the comments and usually reply to them. I think I was looking for yours in particular though, you mentioned in another one that the boxes are now grey instead of having ads on them for dwellings (if I've got the right person) but some members in my discord who got various printings said that wasn't the case and nobody who has it over there has the grey boxes. When did that shift happen do you know?

[@pvaughan007]

done and done. Thanks for the reply. I do know precisely when the change from grey to colorful insert boxes happened actually. I was the person at Breaking Games responsible for 1st edition DoE - from idea to final form. We put put all KS editions in one box due to backer demand for one box to rule them all. Not only was this cost effective for BG, but it suited 2 other goals: 1) I knew that standard backers would be likely to want to upgrade someday (because the game is good), and I figured grey fillers would give them an easy way to do so, without being obnoxious if they did not. 2) I figured by leaving the standard edition bloated, it would never ever go to retail like that, and would be compacted in the future. (Whoops) I left Breaking Games in 2020 as DoE was delivering to start my own company, Cardboard Alchemy. I did ask them if I could take Dwellings with me, and promised I would compact the edition and also develop the expansions. They did not agree to that deal, sadly. 2 years later, due to the game's major demand, they decided to reprint and make the version you show in your picture. (2nd ed). This version I was not responsible for, I only offered dev input on rulebook fixes. However, I don't think BG meant to do anything but preserve the original and offer pathways for both existing customers and new customers to get upgrades. They split up the products for retail and tried to maintain exclusive promises on the KS, left the rulebook referring to all products and put ads to help you get to them (since legendary isn't for stores). All in all, could have been smoother if I had stayed. Ironically, I sought to put up a crowdfunding campaign that would solve the issue of compact vs deluxified Luke Laurie awesomeness in one go, and that very solution which you like (and I think makes the game achieve the goal of being for everyone) is in a video titled "5 reasons not to back..." Sigh. lol. We're still a small company over here btw. I'm trying to offer folks a chance to get great games with either all the gameplay or all the gameplay blinged out, and have the option. I do try and learn from past game making endeavors each time. Cheers, thanks for the discussion. I'll have to join your discord for some more.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@pvaughan007 ahhh gotcha, my mistake, I thought the change was the other way around with the grey boxes, thanks for clarifying :) I think I'm in the minority of not needing deluxification in my games, although did just play Flamecraft for the first time (the deluxe edition) and boy oh boy is that beautiful, haha. But love that it's also at that affordable point for retail purchasing and thrilled at all the great titles cardboard alchemy is now behind :)

[@inspired2game]

Great review! We were deciding between backing or just going out to get Dwellings. But we like the theme better with Andromeda’s so we decided on pledging. If we had Dwellings, we wouldn’t have pledged though. Hate to say, we went Deluxe too because the minis do look so fun - and I don’t want a box that’s half empty. 😆

[@Schaeff72]

Very thoughtful and well reasoned discussion, as usual. I appreciate the way you conduct your overviews, well balanced. I’m backing the all-in, and don’t think I’ll regret it at all, but it’s always nice to hear non-hype train discussions of games. Thanks!

[@chrisnenzel582]

We have DoE with EVERYTHING upgraded and we have zero regrets!

[@jackstrange6360]

I really enjoy playing Dwellings. I think that the additional additions to this game make it a no brainer. I feel like it will refine and expand what the first game did.

[@dcrbdh]

Re: #1 - After playing the game on TTS there are fiddly bits to the game. The tableau building is long and drawn out, the "leaders" feel tacked on and feel like they are only there to make scoring points for building structures possible (DoE was more elegant), there are a lot of little fiddly bits that create a lot of thinky (but not really in a good way ).

[@XileboW]

Thanks for convincing me of backing. I'll need to check on the minis more to see if I really want deluxe!

[@Fissi0nChips]

You are absolutely right about all of this. I will be going for the Deluxe because I think the minis, the resources and the trays are worth it for me.

[@JonTripp115]

I do appreciate you taking the time to make this video, yet still putting a link to the campaign in the notes. Clearly you already realize that resistance is futile.

[@Carlos52024]

Great discussion! I think you actually talked me off the ledge on this one. Flamecraft has been such a hit with my family that I was gonna insta-buy this one, but it’s pricier and with all the mechanics there’s no guarantee it’ll even hit the table. Instead of all-in, only considering the Base pledge now.

[@TheNewAccount2008]

Great review. I was skeptical about the game before, now I'm not anymore. You convinced me that I do want to get the game for myself. (And I am going for the deluxe version too, because... Minis... 'nough said)

[@derekbowen5820]

While they're completely unnecessary, as someone who isn't a mini painter, the Dwellings minis were fantastic. Colored to match their elements and with a wash to accent their details, they're not just a sea of gray plastic. I have high expectations based off of those for AE's minis.

[@francopdx]

Thanks for sharing well-rounded thoughts on this game. It has helped lean more toward backing this project, but I'm also leaning more toward just getting the base version instead of the big box.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

20:20 I agree (I would have felt the same way had I bought less than the Legendary Edition) but again - a completely different company - even if Andromeda is by (one) of the same designers - I am sure they have heard feedback and won't make that same mistake again.

[@Brothercrow]

I was going to hold off on this one and your video pushed me over the edge to get the standard edition

[@FemmeSensei]

I love love love love love these videos. I don't always agree with your points, but love that you do this. ABSOLUTELY FOMO is a big part of this game offering... And this ain't cheap! Will it be played enough to make it worth the investment of money AND time that ultimately TAKES AWAY time from a game PEOPLE ALREADY OWN and ostensibly love...

[@ScytheNoire]

You could have also just played Andromeda's Edge on TTS. :)

[@nagysuti]

Some great arguments there. Interestingly enough Dwellings is most sought after in the Legendary Edition due to all the extra content. I think you need a good 10 plays with it before everything clicks and you can really hit your strategies. I don't really see your point with the storage solutions. It makes setup and tear down super fast compared to the box sizes and amount of components. My comparison for this would be Ruins of Arnak and Great Western Trail both taking significantly more time to set up for a game with much smaller box size. Inserts do help those games too in my opinion.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

27:29 ...AND the system ALLOWS you to experiment with different strategies each time you play - and that is the beauty of it! 😀

[@JJ_TheGreat]

21:52 But what if you want the development minis??!!

[@JJ_TheGreat]

23:32 But that is Cardboard Alchemy! I mean, look how they handled Flamecraft - They have puzzles - and they have fun with their campaigns! And the more they unlock, the better the value will become!

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

I thought Flamecraft was one of the best campaigns of 2020, and having played the deluxe version I really love what they did with it.

[@AdamJorgensen]

Super helpful video, thanks for talking me down 🙂Was riding the hype train for a little but in the end I already have too many WP games and I'm not sure I need this one.

[@ChadHensley]

I really enjoyed DoE but wanted a bit more and AE literally had an answer for each of those things. I was able to pick up the retail edition of DoE from the first print run so my spacer boxes are just grey instead of having those ads pasted on them, so I definitely see how that can be annoying. As to the standard vs deluxe, I am definitely leading towards the deluxe and part of that is that I absolutely hate the cardboard resources in DoE. Digging your fingers, as you referenced, into the game tray to pull out the cardboard tokens is a pain. A friend has the deluxified version of DoE and the wooden bits make a huge difference, though the space is definitely still too small and it seems to have been approached in AE. An annoyance I have about DoE is just how expensive it is to buy the upgraded components for my existing copy. When they started doing the reprints it was going to cost more to get the components I was missing than I paid for the base game! Luke Laurie is one of my all-time favorite designers and I really like this design. I stayed away from DoE on KS because I was worried that the game was overproduced, and it definitely was, but regretted it once I played the game. Getting in on AE only makes sense to me and I feel like it addresses my concerns with DoE in ways that I can comfortably sell my copy of DoE and just keep AE once it arrives. Still appreciate your insight as always, even if you weren't able to talk me out of it. The amount of money you have saved me is amazing, but just like Cthulhu Death May Die, I am choosing to ignore your advice. Thanks for all you do for our community!

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Haha, I'm happy to be ignored! Sounds like Andromeda's Edge adds all those extra bits for you, so I'm glad you can get the upgraded version :)

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

That's a great point about the retail, I'm glad they don't have those ads on it, I must have gotten the standard pledge from the Kickstarter then second hand.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

And I could never get rid of my copy of Dwellings, because I definitely prefer the theme more than Andromeda.

[@pvaughan007]

@@RoomandBoardReviews You have the 2nd edition. I left the boxes grey to not rub it in, and we only put spacers because the KS backers asked for 1 box. I would love a compact DoE to be made finally, honestly.

[@dodong_daniel]

I love this series! Thank you for taking away my FOMO

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

I'm glad it's helpful:)

[@kimklisiak6421]

What I am hearing is that Chris George needs to back AE so he can have a box filled with stuff instead of the half empty box he has now for DoE.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Haha, you make a good point!

[@JJ_TheGreat]

24:06 But if this is a game which you will be playing over and over again, then over the lifetime of the game - they (and everything) will eventually come out!

[@gravityx.1]

It’s a really sound point you make, that the retail edition is a good option worth considering. It will no doubt be a thoughtfully designed, more compact choice that still has all the same gameplay as the deluxe pledge. The fact that the two options (retail vs deluxe) are about components, rather than gameplay, is I think a very consumer-oriented decision by Cardboard Alchemy to try to provide every backer with a complete experience. I however, am definitely going for the deluxe option. The tactile experience of assembling the buildings promises to be satisfying (an entirely unnecessary yet delightful upgrade) and the considered design of the game trays means it will be quicker and more inviting to get the game to the table, for me. Thanks for the video! Very considered and balanced.

[@Gladdest_Dice]

Game Trayz are way better than they were during Dwellings. The newer ones are so good. just the organization of components is worth it, let alone pulling out an entire tray, removing a lid, and all those components being set up. there is definite value in the base game. ive even suggested it to people. the deluxe however comes with upgraded resources, trayz, and minis. i want the resources and the trayz, the minis are just bonus. i also want the wash, the rest of the upgraded resources, and the sleeves, so i went all in. the rest of the fluff will likely just be all out bloat, but its nice to have nice things. everything in the pledge are things id likely seek out later anyways. i dont have dwellings so for me its a much easier decision. improved gameplay, a theme i like more, an all in package with the things i want in my games. also, most euros just look bad lol. i love euros, i want more people to try euros, then you pull out a box of brown to grey cardboard and any chance of convincing someone to try one almost immediately evaporates. its easier to get someone to try a CTG or a Mindclash game than a board & dice game. even after you explain to them the time comittment of learning it, they still look back at it as you attempt to show them an easier to get into stack of beige cardboard.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Yeah that's a very fair point. I'm glad gametrayz are improving, I was a bit underwhelmed with them in Townsfolk tussle as well, because I thought some elements weren't thought out as much as they could have been, which was a shame. I also love having the setup, and it's nice for the little reminders of cost of units, but I really thought for Dwellings it was almost useless, other than being able to have the player card with it. Because there's relatively few pieces per player, and all of them come out at the beginning, it really felt a bit overproduced to me. I think if the resource trays hadn't been annoying though I would have enjoyed the storage a lot more

[@pvaughan007]

​@@RoomandBoardReviews I'm going to send you baggies. Also, we'll make the resource trayz better in AE. We admittedly were low on room for those in DoE. :)

[@chrisarney8265]

I got DoE and my friends and I have thoroughly enjoyed it. It's not perfect, but we really like it, so much so that my friend decided to go all-in on AE, sparing me the decision. I suspect I'll like AE better, but considering that it's a year and a half away, I'm glad I'm not under any pressure to figure out what I wanna do with DoE, first. I like both themes, too - probably a slight preference toward AE - so that's not an issue, either. But if AE turns out to be decidedly better, I'll enjoy freeing up half a shelf square, cause you ain't kidding- that box is huge!

This was a very cool opinion piece, great video. Personally, I'm still excited for the game and I'll be keeping my pledge. I never played Dwellings of Eldervale and I'm just recently (for the past year or so) getting into more complex games and croundfunding. I really like the "over-deluxisation" and complex mechanics as I don't think I've gotten time to be fed-up with them yet. Maybe with time and as the first game I backed arrives (soon) I'll change my mind. That being said, you should definitely know what you're getting into before backing hence why I think these videos are necessary. I'm glad that I had noticed most of the things you pointed out in this video before backing.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

I think it's not too complex (both Dwellings and what I've seen of this) so sounds like it should be a good fit for you. :) I hope you end up loving it!

[@pvaughan007]

Thanks for giving us a chance @JoaoNeves7!

[@michaeldinapoli2960]

Good reasons to not back but all the reasons I seem to take the opposing view. I want a nice big box that contains all the doodads. I want to react to opponents and their choices, essence to a competitive strategy. I don't want a 4-8hr epic because it'll rarely get play that way. I love tech tracks. You're paying for the minis and nicer tokens, and there's a premium to it, yea. As long as people understand minis are pricey. I'll have to see how attaching leaders to them will shake, maybe overrated, maybe nifty. Regarding the too many elements and lack of cohesion, I'll have to see for myself, but I admire attempts and that ambition. If it falls flat okay, if it doesn't, wonderful. I have plenty of tight, simple elegant games. Complex yet intuitive strategy games that strike a balance are a rarer breed.

[@yologogo5441]

Thanks for being the voice of reason once again! I'm probably gonna get the retail version instead of the deluxe.

[@renatocarvalho6059]

First! Backing, not regreting it yet, Chris! xD Keep Dwellings! I'll get Andromeda's Edge, bring it to Canada and you can play my copy, Chris. But only if you use the cargo holds, that's my condition!

[@KMReviews]

I definitely think the all in version of this game is totally worth it. I’d get that iver the deluxe. But I like upgraded resources iver cardboard, I love minus ver cardboard, etc. I think the developments seem aweosme, idk why you think they look less fun. I guess it’s just personal preference. I’m glad I got the legendary version of dwellings too. The monster minis are amazing. Sound bases I don’t care, but they work great as a player identifier if you dominate them. I love the wooden tokens. I love deluxified stuff over cardboard standees etc. I don’t have issues getting the resources lol.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

26:44 But who cares about whether the experience is streamlined? That's not why we play these particular games!

[@derekbowen5820]

As someone who owns and loves playing Dwellings (and is almost certainly backing Andromeda's Edge), I gotta say this is really great review/critique. I disagree wholeheartedly about the gametrayz and the value proposition of the deluxe version, but that may come down to personal tastes. For me, reason number 5 is the biggest deterrent. Aside from the superficial space theme vs. fantasy theme, these two games are very much like Terra Mystica and Gaia Project. They compete against each other and scratch the same itch. Already having Dwellings, do I really want another large (Dwellings' box is roughly the same volume as Gloomhaven) game on my shelf that will make me play an existing favorite less? Then again, I tried Andromeda's Edge on TTS and it definitely lends itself to more engine building, and the tech tracks are more interesting.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Yeah that engine building and tech track aspect seems more fun than dwellings for my preferences, but not enough to get me to pull the trigger when I could purchase something completely different for that similar price point. I know I'm in the minority about the deluxification though haha that's just cheapy old me trying to talk myself into accepting a box not filled with plastic (even though I looove them haha)

[@pvaughan007]

Thanks for the points Derek!

[@inspired2game]

Dwellings of Andromeda’s Eldervale 😆😂

[@michelv1816]

I'm backing Andromeda's Edge deluxe edition and it's a no-brainer. I skipped Dwellings of Eldervale even though I really enjoyed Luke Laurie's Energy Empire. Why? Breaking Games fucked up the game. I remember their pre-order thing they did 2 years or so ago and I literally couldn't wrap my mind around what they offered. It was so badly run, it was embarrassing. 3 years after the the release, they FINALLY have copies in retail. Cardboard Alchemy delivered Flamecraft that was both fun and good looking in both retail and KS. Watching a "how to play" video of DoE and AE yielded different results. It seems intuitive to me to play Andromeda's Edge while explain to my why dragons can do one thing but can't do the things wizards can do? Thematic integration will make the teach much easier. Do I want to paint tiny spaceships? I do. However, it isn't without ANY reservations. Their Gamefound campaign is a lot of reveals and less unlocks. I realize CMON is perceived as the devil by some but when they reveal a new boss for the game, it feels like: "now my game will be 20% better!". Will it really be 20% better? No but I'm excited to see it! Revealing 5 more factions in Andromeda's Edge feels like "okay. No idea if it'll be more fun but, sure, why not?". Nothing unlocked in this campaign feels like it's progressing towards a better game. It's not a bad campaign, just not a great campaign. I may change my mind if they tell me 2 million dollars unlocks a linen finish on the rule book... then I have to cancel my pledge on principle. Overall, I'm excited streamlined version of DoE. Thanks for the 5 reasons video though. I feel as good about this as I do about Cthulhu Death May Die!

[@JJ_TheGreat]

But I hate the event deck system... It just adds way too much randomness to the game.

[@pvaughan007]

Note to self... do NOT make a full linen finish rulebook stretch goal. CHECK. lol.

[@Mepper.]

You were successful.... in convincing me to back Andromeda's Edge. :) I'm not going to buy Dwellings of Everdale because I'm not into the fantasy theme. The Kickstarter was pushing the more expensive deluxe version so hard that the campaign was making me think I shouldn't back it. An extra $60 for minis and GameTrayz? However, I would definitely want the expansion for solo play and backing throws it in for "free". That suddenly makes backing a reasonable option over waiting for retail. The biggest argument I still have against backing is the whole issue of paying now for something that won't show up for at least 1.5 years when my circumstances may be very different.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Yeah that standard pledge absolutely feels like the way I would go, but Dwellings is more than enough for me and I'll have to play it a few more times to see if it sticks around. If it were a smaller box, it would have a higher chance of staying in my collection.

[@FemmeSensei]

@@RoomandBoardReviews Very mixed on minis on a combat spatial game vs. standees, but they really do add to the experience. I'm opposite though...space theme is a turn-off to me. It might just save me :).

[@pvaughan007]

@@RoomandBoardReviews I have a video about how it ended up huge. I think I would pay for the hacksaw video and a discussion sometime. Let's do that video!

[@chestersleezer8821]

Ah well hmm, sorry to say I just back Andromeda's Edge about two hours ago. Actually backer 10,004, I have Dwellings for Eldervale and I did go with the Deluxe Edition since those Game Trayz and more important the bigger box. As to what I will also include well I will wait for the Project Backer.

[@pvaughan007]

Thank you for backing! We appreciate your help getting to 10,000 backers!

[@koonfasa]

Does it have sound bases for the ships? I want those… I’m trying not to look, but you’re making me curious. I got Dwellings and think that’s enough… And I’d just fit little box games in your Dwellings box.

[@koonfasa]

I have Gaia but not Terra, just Star Realms, and don’t plan on the fantasy Planet X remake. But I do have two Zombicides, Sprawlopolis and Agropolis, and both Lost Ruins of Arnak and Dune Imperium. I’m also trying to decide which is better between Star Wars Pandemic or Pandemic Warcraft…

[@JJ_TheGreat]

28:31 I would NEVER advise you to throw Dwellings of Eldervale in the trash! I still think it has the leg up when it comes to theme!

[@egoDEATH33]

Thanks for the video you make some very good points. First about Dwellings. It is ridiculous that the box is half empty, I am not happy about that with my copy. The box is huge, and a big shelf hog. Not to mention very difficult to transport when I take it to BG meet ups. About the campaign, yes totally, the standard edition of Andromeda gets all the components you would with the deluxe, so you miss nothing except an upgrade into minis and deluxe tokens etc. Player count, number of cards etc is the same. As someone who is way more concerned with having the game component content I know the deluxe is not worth it. Especially since like you say this is a euro worker placement, not an epic space game. If it is anything like Dwellings then you will hardly get the minis from the deluxe onto the table anyway. - - Thanks for the video I think these videos of yours are a vital counter balance for the BG community, and they are very healthy for the mental health of the community too. Your attitude, demeanor and character only add to this. Cheers!

[@bryanwinston8820]

I 100% agree most people shouldn't back this, ESPECIALLY if you have Dwellings of Eldervale. If you remove the naming differences caused by theme there is less than 10% difference in this rule set. However I'm backing it anyway lol. I suspect I will get rid of Dwellings and keep AE, if they are as similar as they seem to be. However I've got enough room that I can keep both of them if there ends up being enough difference between them. I rated Dwellings a 10 even with my small nitpicks with it. I feel like AE fixes most of my nitpicks, even though it introduces some others. I don't like the art but in every other way I think AE is the superior product. I also LOVE deluxified games. I LOVE THEM!!!. I agree I don't like the way they did it on the page, but I don't mind the deluxification upcharge.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

...And I don't like the Event Deck System...

[@DanClapp]

I went all in with this one!

[@filippoghisoni6569]

To everyone that can answer me, how can I play Amdromeda's Edge on TTS once I subscribe on steam? I'm completely noob on how to use TTS to begin with..

[@michellehanson2364]

I am very interested in Andromeda's Edge, but I am waiting to do a TTS playthrough (have one scheduled) before I back it!

[@pvaughan007]

Can't wait to share it with you on TTS! We want you to play it and find out if it's for you!

[@JJ_TheGreat]

17:55 What's different is the developments.

[@JustinNichols66]

#3 point hits with me. This is becoming a trend as more games utilize player boards. I would rather everything be next to each other, like the tech tracks, to quickly compare each player's capabilities. Easier said than done though.

[@WestChamber21]

I really love how much you get and the quality of the components looks amazing for the price of the game… but the reason I backed out, was the timeline of its release seems too far off for me. And no co-op mode. It had a solo but no co-op which disappointed me. I just don’t have time for a big competitive game.

[@tacomuerte936]

They have discussed a 2v2 mode where players play individually but you and your teammate combine scores at the end. Not exactly co-op but it's more in that territory at least

[@iphatbass]

I never played DoE and it seems like a really cool idea! I love worker placement games and this game seems really unique! Also, SF theme is more appealing for me. And yes I will paint all those minis :D ALL IN pledge seems too much and I really don't care about all those extra stuff from it, so I'll probably go for Deluxe version (if i find someone to split shipping price, it's $88 for my region). One thing that I didn't like is box art of Deluxe edition, standard has much better and colorful art.

[@BrussLSprouts]

DoE is my all time favorite game and I was extremely bummed I did not go all-in, which I never am for games. This is a 100% all in here!

[@JJ_TheGreat]

27:45 But it is too late to back Dwellings of Eldervale! 😉

[@pvaughan007]

Right??

[@danieldouglasclemens]

Thank you for your thoughts and well presented reasons in not backing. You just saved me a lot of money for a game I wouldn't enjoy.

[@ryangilmore3678]

Talk me back off the ledge, Chris! Truthfully I've been backing away the more and more I look into Andromeda and how similar it is to Dwellings, which I own. Yes it improves on aspects, but it feels like baking a new cake and only changing the color of the sprinkles. It's still chocolate cake!!

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Definitely still chocolate cake here for suuure

[@GarrettSeney]

Fresh chocolate cake with your favorite color of sprinkles now. ;)

[@pvaughan007]

It's actually a pie, not a cake. The pie is shaped just like a flying saucer. But we hear you, and Luke and I are happy that folks love Dwellings.

[@ryangilmore3678]

@@pvaughan007 Love Dwellings! You guys nailed it. And I know you got another hit here. Excited for the future. As long as it includes pie :)

[@jomccune]

Good video. I need this kind of talk to offset the hype. 👍

[@GORYOUN]

Great review, thanks. Just what I needed to hear. I only went for the standard pledge and came to the same conclusion on the deluxification aspect. I’m a sucker for any sci-fi game but I think I will drop my pledge altogether. Your indications of too much heads down with no idea what anyone else is doing plus the suggestion of unnecessary bloat and that when you strip everything down to bare bones it becomes just a good worker placement game but not actually special enough to stand out and need to own have convinced me to save my money. I managed to avoid FOMO on Stellaris, Stars of Akarios, Euthia (twice), Oathsworn and ISS Vanguard, none of which I now regret. I do still have Voidfall to come but experience has told me that big box games don’t come out as often as equally good small box games - Glen More is a classic example where a great medium weight euro with an interesting game mechanic got reprinted through Kickstarter and ended up with over a dozen add on modular expansions and is over 5 times the size of the original game - almost too big to take out to a game night.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Out of all of those mentioned, Voidfall is the one I'd go with as well. I really like Mindclash and once you get past the crunch I think that one is going to be really rewarding.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

@@RoomandBoardReviews And I have zero (0) interest in Voidfall - just the idea of a very Euroey "4X" game (which wouldn't be 4X) is unappealing to me.

[@pvaughan007]

I don't think you can go wrong with the Standard Pledge, honestly - we crammed so much content in the game, and it has all the gameplay!

[@JJ_TheGreat]

I definitely prefer the theme of Dwellings - but I am going Al-In on Andromeda. I am very much hoping we can get another solo AI faction - in order to play a "3-player solo game", so we have that option and it would be even more dynamic then the "Ghosts of Eldervale".

[@daveyoungdahl8349]

I think the AI actually has 3 versions. The only challenge is does the 2nd AI follow you or the other AI.

[@wyatth2992]

Thank you! I've been looking for this video ever since it crossed the 1mil mark. Save me from myself! Lol

[@Groovestonenz]

I would love to see a differentiation in the spaceship miniatures. Maybe this will be a stretch goal...

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

With alternate sculpts? That'd be neat but with the ships going to be minis at the retail level I'm not sure if they will. I guess they just need the different molds, but I also think the usability would be a lot harder since your different ships already do different stuff so you need them to be the same for easy readability on the board

[@Trueflights]

My biggest problem with the Andromeda's Edge campaign is that the package deal has so many extra bits in it that I don't want or need, but there is no way to get some of the other stuff without getting the full pledge. It's kept me from getting it so far and there is only 1 day left.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

That's a really great point. It's very surprising to me that they wouldn't just have those as add-ons

[@pvaughan007]

@@RoomandBoardReviews um, we did have them as add-ons! We supported a fully ala-carte order. You can get Standard, or Deluxe and a bunch of add-ons. Or get "ALL IN" if you want all the add ons with zero hassle.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@pvaughan007 Dang, see that's what I get for responding to comments! ;)

[@pvaughan007]

@@RoomandBoardReviews correction, this is what you get when you feature one of my games in a video. I'll support this product forever, lol.

[@tah27891]

Been waiting for this.... unlike castles of burgundy, you've successfully talked me out of backing this one lol

[@pvaughan007]

Now I have to go watch the Castles of Burgandy one, lol. Too late, already went for that game.

[@peterriecks9126]

I backed the deluxe version of Dwellings and the one thing I was not looking forward to was the sound bases. They're silly, unnecessary, and take up enough room to require an even bigger box. Sure enough, so many people LOVE the sound bases. My wife requires them to play. Playing at the house of some friends and their kids are sleeping upstairs...they still want the sound bases in play. I don't get it, but they're a hit.

[@patzuk3463]

As soon as the thought to back AE, I said "What does Chris say, hope he's made a vid to talk me off the ledge". Thanks for another great pro/con discussion. 👍

[@jecabreradc]

Thank you!

[@abwuds7208]

Thnks a lot!! If I had fallen for the fomo, I would have regret a lot of things :)

[@theextraordinarypants4909]

He hit at least 3 points that would likely "disappoint" me. My take on the miniatures too: what do they ADD to so many games except larger boxes and exorbitant price increases? Adds immersion and enjoyment? Yes, sure, and it should probably be part of the standard edition in that case too. Otherwise, I don't see a point other than to pull people's "fear of missing out" strings and get people to spend more for an unnecessary feature. I just had this conversation with a friend in regard to the miniatures with Andromeda's Edge prior to seeing this video.

[@pvaughan007]

So our solution is the non miniatures, compact standard edition with full gameplay for only $70 - including the expansion. This is a huge value with none of the price increases. You can't have both. But you can have full gameplay. This game will pack in more gameplay than other games that sell for more in retail.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

23:19 ...Then you might as well wait until retail, right?!

[@JJ_TheGreat]

24:24 But I would consider this a HYBRID game - because it leans into the theme - and there is combat in it.

[@Fissi0nChips]

1 year later, no regrets backing this. This is a great game.

[@Daniel_Piccirillo]

You make some good points. But unfortunately reality renders your argument that people could simply buy dwellings of eldervale quite cynical. At least here in germany it is quite hard to get. I checked, ebay, bgg and specific facebook groups and found 2 offers. One for 279€ for the most basic edition and another one with some extra stuff one doesnt need for only 700€. So I rather take a 2 year waiting time for basically the same game (i also like scifi a tiny bit more) due to a lack of supply. I think i go for the deluxe edition because I am a bif fan of inserts as they make it more likely to bring a big game to the table. But I wont pay 60$ dollars extra for the all-in pledge as it exclusively contains stuff that doesnt add any relevant value to the game. Maybe the sleeves but usually they are low quality.

[@pvaughan007]

Cheers on your Deluxe copy! We can't wait to get you the game!

[@rigo1001]

In my opinion the game look really interesting. I actually like the Deluxe Edition, just because I find very pleasant the tactile experience of the minis and the "building" aspec, over the standees, yet I agree that the mechanics will be the same in the standard version considering that for the campaign it includes the expansion. The only thing holding me back is that I don't know how much content is language dependant is the game, and I would prefer it in Spanish, so it would have better chances to be played in my group. Till now the campaign is only in English, with the chance of getting localization in other languages outside the campaign. That's the deal breaker for me, also outside Europe and Northamerica seems likely that the shipping will be as costly as the game itself.

[@alvy514]

Hi Rodrigo there is alot of iconography for most of the game the only thing that is pretty language dependant on are the tactic cards which are I do find somewhat important as they can sway battles in your favor.

[@brett232]

Just want to know how many takes it took to say "Dwellings of Andromedas Eldervale" hahaha

[@riddlesphinxx]

You know, I was thinking about this video just yesterday, and I was thinking one of your reasons not to back would be: You like Dwellings. They're different. And another reason would be: You don't like Dwellings: They have similar gameplay XD Only slightly disappointed my Chris George Bingo fell through

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Haha, I think the similarities are going to drastically outweigh the differences for this one.

[@FemmeSensei]

@@RoomandBoardReviews That's it... Next on Patreon: Chris George Bingo.

[@justanerd1138]

Dwellings of Andromeda's Everdale is now this games name forever. ;) Seriously though, I did not get Dwellings and while I enjoyed it I felt the theme did not work as well and between the space theme and mechanical changes/tweaks I think if you don't have the first one this is the better choice.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Definitely agree this will likely be the better version.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

20:04 But again, that was Breaking Games that made that - don't take that out on a completely different company.

[@revol40]

You are totally right, but the all-in is so....

[@victorgonzalez2927]

I sold my super deluxe all-in copy of Dwellings of Eldervale to back the super deluxe all-in Andromeda’s Edge. They added more and I like all the miniatures. I really liked DoE but I think AE will be an improvement. I own Gaia Project and not Terra Mystica.😉

[@_ckord_]

Man you are superb discusser !

[@josephread8414]

Man, I think I can say on this one I am cheaper than Chris George cause I don't think retail is worth it and I appreciated that graphic cause it showed clearly why I would wait for retail. Showed clearly that the expansion is primarily to expand player count, with it for solo players but not for me. I'll just wait a year and then preorder the base game online for less than the $69 MSRP and only lose player counts I won't use and a couple extra factions. Even if you wanted the expansion it will probably be cheaper at an olgs once you factor in free shipping.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Yeah a very valid take as well. I think that'd be my course of action too haha, but I know lots of people love a solo mode so probably more worth it for them.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

19:11 You do know that Dwellings was produced by a different publisher (Breaking Games) than Andromeda's Edge (Cardboard Alchemy), right? So why are you holding Cardboard Alchemy accountable for Breaking Games's mistakes??

[@ScytheNoire]

Peter with Cardboard Alchemy talked about the box size, the push from the publisher to do it, and that it was a mistake. There are a ton of changes in every aspect of the game. They have went over all the changes in various videos. It's a lot of changes. #3 is a problem with your group. Players should be saying what a card does when they play it out. I dislike people who don't say what they are doing while playing. It's common courtesy to do so. As an owner of Dwellings Legendary edition, I strongly disagree about not going the deluxe route. I'll never sell it. It's not a deliberate marketing tactic, they are showing what the retail version has, since the expansion won't be free at retail. Back to complaining about the Dwellings box, not the same game, and my Dwellings box is PACKED FULL. Stop comparing different boxes, different games.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

💯% agree! And different publishers, even! He spends a significant amount of time in this video complaining about a game which is produced from a completely different publisher.

[@pvaughan007]

@@JJ_TheGreat To be fair, I made Dwellings and I am making this one, so it's a fair topic. That said, it is largely a non issue, because this video is complaining about DoE standard decision, which won't be done again. I can LEARN from making one game to another, yo.

[@iTower_Prime]

The only reason you feel you would like it more is because you feel the FOMO with the empty boxes .... just get the DELUXE!! :P

[@otterlydorky]

Too late, I already dropped alllll the cash on this one. Haha

[@JJ_TheGreat]

21:18 But you are also missing out on some of the modules of the game! Ah ha ha ha ha ha 😉

[@joeferreti9442]

Problems of the Deluxe Edition: very high price, cumbersome overly expensive GameTrayz, worse box art Problems of the Standard Edition: no Raider miniatures, expansion in separate box, price too high for cardboard resources and standees The Developments are fine as standees, but when the Raiders look like developments (when both are standees) it's a problem. :( It's a dilemma if you want to back "Andromeda's Edge", because both editions have big drawbacks!

[@pvaughan007]

Sorry there seemed to be more problems than solutions. Hopefully you found your version and joined us!

[@juvigoat2168]

You should chop that box and tape it it up to proper size with duct-tape! Big glops of it.

[@wiktormonfilsgustafsson56]

Maybe I'll just stick to Gaia project (and Voidfall soon). Thanks for saving my economy!

[@pvaughan007]

Ooof, not Voidfall. Just kidding - whatever suits you. Hope you can try Andromeda's Edge soon - it's a different take than both of those.

[@wiktormonfilsgustafsson56]

@@pvaughan007 Im sure it will be amazing! My LFGS is getting a retailers pledge! 😊

[@DumahAtreides]

HA - that's why you do a top down. In DoE, you can have a longer game option with the Oracle tile and I know people who say they always include it. I decided not to back Andromeda's Edge and I own the all in for Dwellings of Eldervale. I'll also be selling Dwellings - mostly that my wife wasn't a fan of the system and would prefer something that is more strictly a euro instead of the blend with combat. She enjoys Dune Imperium and the combat in it and the combat in Scythe is infrequent enough that she enjoys it, but there's a bit too much chaos and take that to what's in DoE and the changes for AE won't affect that. I enjoy the game a lot, but without her it's strictly a solo experience and I feel that DoE lacks the variability both in AI behavior and difficulty to keep at that (especially with all the content). AE may have a better solo mode, but I can wait for retail only down the road when there are real reviews of the final product. I'd say that if you want to try the game out but not sure it will be a favorite and have reviewed the differences to say AE is the better pick - then get the standard kickstarter. I'd say get the all-in if you KNOW what you are getting and feel you'll be tabling the game often as a top favorite game for your group. One thing to note - Dwellings of Eldervale isn't done. They do have a planned expansion planned. These are two flavors of the same thing, but Coke and Pepsi could called that and people vastly prefer one to the other (Coke is where it's at folks).

[@JJ_TheGreat]

They are supposed to improve the solo mode in AE. I hope they add another AI faction - so that I can play a "3-player solo game" - which wouldn't add too much overhead ţo the experience.

[@sethwinslow]

I have an overriding 6th reason for not backing, although it doesn't apply more generally: My daughter got engaged last month, so I have a wedding to pay for. On top of that, my car got totaled in an accident a week later (everyone is fine), so I have a new car to pay for. Basically, I'm broke. But... I WANT :(

[@andraslibal]

I never played Dwellings of Eldervale I do not plan on playing it I just don't like how it looks and I don't like the theme ... but I played Andromeda's Edge quite a few times now and we all like it in our friends group. I did not buy it a friend of mine bought it in the group I play with ... we like sci fi themes.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@andraslibal nice yeah you would have no need especially if you like this one. From all reports this is the 2.0 version

[@alradig]

These videos are great! The (empty) box of Dwellings is really annoying. I feel like it will be removed from my collection much sooner than other games just because of the box size. It just takes too much premium shelf space. As soon as I don't play it often it will go. I believe I was about to make the same mistake with Andromeda´s Edge. So thanks for that!

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Hundred percent agree - I can see dwellings leaving a lot sooner than it would have if it was efficient with its space, but you've got to be amazing when you're basically the same sized box as Gloomhaven haha

[@pvaughan007]

@@RoomandBoardReviews lol - the storage system was made because of Gloomhaven. When it's hard to get a game right out to the table, it doesn't come out to the table.

[@barryc6785]

A E standard won't have a a box full of air like dwellings did. The box is smaller & won't have trays

[@jacobjslee]

Who hates tech tracks?

[@Duaneski]

I CAME HERE TO ASK THAT!!! 😂

[@JT12523]

Watching this with my stepson and he says “Do you know ow this guys name? He looks like a Nate. He should have a podcast, I bet he does.” Just thought I’d share the musings of a nine year old.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Changing my name, and starting a podcast with my friend Billy called "InNate ABillyties" about asymmetric player powers.

[@morgaknightgames]

I'm backing so much less recently. My wallet is appreciative. 😆 I'm moving soon so I'm in the middle of getting rid of things. Nothing like the threat of packing to decrease your spending.