History of the Big Four - London Midland & Scottish Railway

[@TheHylianBatman]

I knew that the LMS had been important in the 30's, with Stanier and all, but I had no idea that the LMS had been the largest railway in the country. That's very interesting to know. The things forgotten by history, I suppose.

[@PercyPruneMHDOIFandBars]

It was also the largest company of any type at the time. It was a serious ship-owner too!

[@DynamicDuo795]

It's crazy to think that England, being a small island country, had so many different railroads operating in it, plus the enormous amounts of different locomotives that each of those different railroads had. I don't think we here in the US had as many railroads as you guys did, and we are a huge country. Keep the videos coming. I subbed.

[@greyfox8194]

new train video wooooo lets goo

[@lkbergen]

That was good little edit there; both starting and ending shot filmed at Penrith.

[@Tom-Lahaye]

Forgot to mention the rebuilding of the Fowler Royal Scot and Patriot locomotives by Stanier, making both classes almost identical and strong performers. Otherwise good as always, just the sheer flow of numbers is something I can't save on my harddisk 😄

[@christopherbellamy639]

The Rugby and Stamford Railway (LNWR) and the Syston and Peterborough Railway (MR) came under the LMS in 1923. The Rugby and Stamford Railway would later come under LMR in 1948, and the Syston and Peterborough Railway would come under both LMR and ER in 1948/1950. Stamford station was an MR station that consisted of 3 platforms, one for Peterborough bound trains, one for Leicester bound trains and a bay platform for trains to Seaton and Uppingham. Both the MR and LNWR had to share the station until grouping in 1923. For the LNWR, it was a temporary terminus until grouping. In 1948 Stamford station was renamed Stamford Town due to Stamfords other station Stamford Water Street station (Stamford East) which was a GNR, later LNER station but would revert back to Stamford after Stamford East closed.

[@sjaakmcd1804]

Brilliant as usual. The only bit you missed was the friendly collaboration between the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway and the LNWR which was a going to see the 2 merge.

[@Shark30006]

In BR days, the Class 40 Whistlers and the Blue Pullman sets operated on the West Coast Mainline

[@Del-bm]

Very informative thanks for sharing this wisdom

[@mudgetheexpendable]

Your channel keeps my brain busy thinking about the what-might-have-beens of infrastructure for days and days after each episode. Thank you.

[@robredz]

Didn't the ex LNWR footplate crews due to the Midland railway initially dominating the group with Midland practices nickname it the 'ell of a mess? Superb video Ruairidh

[@Korschtal]

My understanding is that this was largely because the Midland dominated locomotive policy and thus smaller 4-4-0 types were built. these were underpowered in the Midlands, let alone places like Shap.

[@robredz]

@@Korschtal Yes that's spot on, Midland running practices and weight limits were imposed so a George Fifth would have a limit of roughly the same as a Midland Compound as would a Prince of Wales. Midland operated frequent smaller trains rather than the heavy trains LNWR locomotives would pull up and over Shap in a manner alien to the Midland. That's not to say the Midland Compounds were bad, they were decent locomotives in their own right but not up to what a Claughton or George could do.

[@chesapeakedproductions3009]

Should I be sleeping at 2 in the morning? Damn right I should. Should I watch a new documentary the moment it's dropped? Damn right I should

[@heidirabenau511]

What is one to do?

[@chesapeakedproductions3009]

Watch the new documentary of course. Sleep can wait lmao

[@heidirabenau511]

​@@chesapeakedproductions3009True...

[@mikerichards6065]

A shame that British Rail didn't immediately order a fleet of mainline diesels based on the successful LMS 10000 and 10001, but instead went down the path of the ruinous Modernisation Pilot Scheme which lost years and millions of Pounds in hopeless designs. And what a tragedy neither of these pioneering machines were saved for a museum.

[@malbecmikegrey996]

Your comments on wholly-new track being built for TGVs and Shinkansen - unlike in the UK - omit one important difference; the original Japanese lines were narrow-gauge. and unsuitable for high speed use. Excellent video - thanks for all your hard work.

[@robinforrest7680]

The advantage of the TGV is of course it’s ability to use the classic network and get into city centres using the ordinary network.

[@gerogyzurkov2259]

​@@robinforrest7680 Isn't the ICE doing that too?

[@daystatesniper01]

Wow incredible rare colour footage of Garrats

[@marvwatkins7029]

Another fine MH production.

[@roygardiner2229]

Splendid!

[@davidcrook5511]

And at long last I've come to this one! Of course, I was expecting this to be good because it is on the Ruairidh MacVeigh channel!!! 😀

[@denisharty20]

Great video as usual but, the Irish film section depicted Great Southern Railway / C.I.E. trains including former Tralee and Dingle lines and GSR 4-6-0s and 101 class 0-6-0s, none of which were part of the LMS NCC.

[@steffenrosmus9177]

Would t it be easier to show the trackage and locations on maps instead of reading it ?

[@Shark30006]

LMS Princess Coronation No. 6220 Coronation could have been a candidate for preservation along with Duchess of Hamilton and Duchess of Sutherland for breaking 114 mph.

[@cykablyatman6242]

could you do the american big 4 railroads? (C&O, N&W, SOU, UP)

[@johnmehaffey9953]

Wow did you just see that a train moving with snow on the tracks

[@dylangranger9129]

I think what railway he’ll talk about next

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Keeping the common carriers act seems like such an obvious piece of corruption. Although it probably doesn't get into the top 10 of collusion and corruption between the interests in road transport and the government.

[@superted6960]

Govt meddling in the price of something that should be subject to market forces. What could possibly go wrong...

[@Alex-cw3rz]

@@superted6960 this isn't black and white it depends on what the issue is.

[@maryvanderriet7973]

Do one on South African Railways and Harbours as South Africa rail heritage often goes unoticed!!!!!!!

[@davidpnewton]

The Midland Railway's small engine policy is one of the most stupid sets of decisions in early 20th century railway history. It demonstrably led to higher operating costs. It demonstrably led to a higher failure rate for trains as two independent locomotives of a given type hauling a train are axiomatically more likely to experience a failure than a single locomotive of that type hauling a train if their mechanical condition is the same. The only justification for such a policy is where axle load limits preclude using a single, bigger class. That wasn't the case for LNWR mainlines and I don't think it was the case for Midland Railway mainlines either. Yet they continued the policy. In short Fowler and his supporters were idiots in this respect.

[@gilbertporter4992]

New to the subject but what was the context of this "Small Engine Policy" that had bad effects later on?

[@JohnWayne-n3i]

What a fascinating insight into the history of the London Midland & Scottish Railway! It's incredible to learn about the extensive network and the challenges faced by such a significant company. Thanks for sharing this informative video. For those interested in further exploration of railway history, I highly recommend checking out the related video of the History of the Big Four. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o3rUanWtdqh2acU

[@JenniferinIllinois]

More British trains.🇬🇧🚂

[@Andrewjg_89]

How times have changed when steam trains were replaced by diesel trains and soon diesel trains will be phased out by new electric and battery powered trains as the UK is to reduce the pollution. And to cut down on dirty fuel for cleaner alternative including hydrogen that hydrogen powered trains will one day run on most railway lines in the UK. A lot is still changing as we move forward towards dealing with global warming.

[@kinew9212]

*Derry

[@twinboo529]

Correct 🇮🇪

[@jamesgrey6217]

*Londonderry

[@kinew9212]

@@jamesgrey6217 bzzzt wrongo

[@jamesgrey6217]

@@kinew9212 Londonderry is the correct name. Read a book.

[@kinew9212]

@@jamesgrey6217 L*ndonderry is the colonial name, not the actual name. We don't call Beijing "Peking" any more, same difference

[@CathodeRayNipplez]

The more I learn about the history of Britain's railways and underground the more I think everyone was off their face smoking crack. Fascinating history of corruption, politics (same thing really), power, and shonky money narcissists. Here in Au we have bugger all rail by comparison.

[@nmccw3245]

Railroad investment was a huge bubble. Everyone thought they would become rich. Most lost money. Britain ended up with an expansive rail network that formed the backbone of the Industrial Revolution.

[@CathodeRayNipplez]

@@nmccw3245 I'm amazed how much has been ripped up too. The number of abandoned stations is in the hundreds.

[@pressure609]

Im gonna call everyone shonky from now on

[@CathodeRayNipplez]

@@pressure609 You would probably be more right than wrong most times. Sadly.

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

​@@CathodeRayNipplezthat's because of two main reasons. One, the opening of rail lines that served places with insufficient populations and, two, the opening of duplicating routes like GCR's London Extension that duplicated the routes of the LNWR and MR for Manchester and through the east Midlands.

[@robinforrest7680]

Excellent as always Ruairidh. Thankyou. You deserve many more than the106k subscribers you have.

[@lukegreen5341]

0:30 Happy 100th Birthday The London Midland And Scottish Railway. 1923 - 2023. 100 Years. X

[@Clivestravelandtrains]

Ha! Last week I travelled from London to Edinburgh first class on an LNER train, and the menu was printed with a celebration of "100 years of the LNER", forgetting to mention a few gaps and failed operators in between!

[@lukegreen5341]

​@@Clivestravelandtrains How Did You Do That. X

[@Clivestravelandtrains]

@@lukegreen5341 I bought a ticket and boarded the train!

[@1951GL]

Very good - Horwich did tend to specialize in strong class 4 and 5 mixed traffic locos, the 2-60 Crab and the Ivatt equivalent post war, which operated to the end of steam. Drivers and firemen loved them. Both derived from L&Y requirements, uphill power with frequent stops. Stanier's Princesses were elegance on wheels.

[@sniper.93c14]

One thing I noticed is that in all the videos the LMS has kept with early 1900s freight practices - small 4-wheel wagons and small locomotives, when they should’ve invested their money into bigger bogie wagons, large locomotives like 2-8-2s or 4-8-4s as well as upgrading track to heavier loads this would’ve saved huge amounts in labour on both running costs and transshipment of goods as well as hell make the system profitable

[@macjim]

The best product from the LMS was the ubiquitous Black 5.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Also the 8F

[@geoffreyking4515]

Don't forget the handsome jubilees

[@robinforrest7680]

Love the Black Five but I have to agree with macjim, the 8F is really something else! The UK were hoping to supply SNCF with 8F’s, unfortunately (or fortunately depending who’s side you’re on) the USA got in quicker with the 141R. Amazing machines too it must be admitted.

[@willhovell9019]

The LMS was known as the 'Ell of Mess' according to Kenneth Williams😂

[@Laticity]

Thank you. Very enjoyable. A tough company to summarise!

[@muhammadfadhiil5992]

Will you discuss about the big four's CMEs?

[@robinforrest7680]

Great idea! A CME series. Plenty to choose from! Churchward, Collett, Hawksworth, Raven, Fowler, Gresley, Stanier, Peppercorn, Thompson, Urie, Bullied, Riddles, the two Ivatt’s… to name but a few…

[@MicahtheDrumCorpsPseudoboomer]

Pardon me, what are CMEs?

[@muhammadfadhiil5992]

@@MicahtheDrumCorpsPseudoboomer Chief Mechanical Engineer

[@MicahtheDrumCorpsPseudoboomer]

@@muhammadfadhiil5992 oh, ok, thanks!

[@robinforrest7680]

@@MicahtheDrumCorpsPseudoboomer Sorry, Chief Mechanical Engineer.

[@leightonolsson4846]

The original Royal Scot class suffered from having cylinder piston heads that did not utilise split rings to ensure steam tightness, a silly mistake for a modern locomotive of the period. The BR rebuilds definitely were needed! Astonishing the difference the CME could make - Stainer was brilliant, steam turbines are not a good fit for locomotives, but the 'Turbomotive' was one of the few real successes in the application of the technology.

[@howardmiao5150]

Partial closure of the Midland Main Line did come to pass though, primarily between Matlock and Chinley and between Swinton and Normanton, with other significant sections seeing no InterCity service, but the former Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway was worse affected by closures.

[@PeterYeadon-js7ou]

Interestingly it's back on the cards to reopen the line through the Peak District again. It should never have been shut, like many others.

[@howardmiao5150]

@@PeterYeadon-js7ou 1 main line for the price of 3 with Woodhead and Miller’s Dale closed. We saw Piccadilly - Euston services reduced by 75% last year. Imagine the capacity of the WCML, MML AND HS2 as equal main lines. Such a small proportion of distance closed makes the entire main line unusable. My newest analysis shows many lines reduced from 4 tracks to 2 or even 1 are as good as closed, with no more of the possible journey opportunities or freight capacity than a line closed and lifted entirely.

[@PeterYeadon-js7ou]

@@howardmiao5150 I really couldn't agree more. Typical of this country, very short sighted. The Great Central was constructed with a cross channel tunnel in mind. The APT, would of worked so well on such a well thought out railway.

[@LearnwithJanice]

hello from Kansas🇺🇸

[@robertbalazslorincz8218]

'Non-stop from Euston to Glasgow' *needs to stop at Carlisle for crew change*

[@thisisdashers]

Amazing as always ❤

[@jonistan9268]

Glasgow to London in five and a half hours? I think that's how long that trip took me with Avanti West Coast in 2022 (I went the other way but still). That train however wasn't non-stop of course, stopping at six stations on the way.

[@bobbymcloughlin3452]

Company Sets of England Great Regional Railways of England GNR (Great Northern Railway) GSR (Great Southern Railway) GER (Great Eastern Railway) GWR (Great Western Railway) NER (North Eastern Railway) SER (South Eastern Railway) NWR (North Western Railway) SWR (South Western Railway) English Regional Railways (NR, SR, ER, WR) London Regional Railways (LNR, LSR, LER (Cockney Railway), LWR) LNER LNWR LSER LSWR London Midland | Celtrail (Celtic Railways) = LMC LMS (London Midland | Scotrail or Sudrian Railway) LMW (London Midland | Welsh Railway) LMC (London Midland | Cornish Railway) LMI (London Midland | Irish Railways) Celtic Railways Cornish Railways Welsh Railways Sudrian Railways Scottish Railways Manx Railways Irish Railway of England (Coming Soon) Gælic Railways Goidelic Railway Britain's Great Rail Co. Quartet One of England's Great Regional Railways: Western (GWR) One of England's Regional Railways: Southern (SR) One of The London Regional Railways: North Eastern (LNER) One of The London Midland Celtrail Companies: Scottish (LMS)

[@Riogrande1964]

May I suggest that you group these as a playlist?

[@macjim]

9:17 is that St Enoch Station?

[@ohareport]

my body is ready

[@Hascienda27]

Beautiful

[@johnkeepin7527]

Although there is a lot of coverage of the rolling stock and locomotives content, there were similar issues related to the signalling equipment, along with the related organisations. Geographically separate offices - such as London, Crewe, and Derby - were more or less independent, even after the creation of the London Midland Region after nationalisation. Eventually, they transferred a lot of work to a new building in Birmingham, called “Stanier house” after the old CME, in line with the policy of moving work outside of London. With regard to the Midland line upgrades that are mentioned (admittedly much more recent than the LMS), it might have been worth mentioning the St Pancras - Bedford electrification (the Bedpan project) along with the new rolling stock that was to be operated “driver only” in the mid 1980s.

[@rottenroads1982]

Aster, he is one of my Thomas & Friends OC’s. His basis is an LMS Garratt. My canon for him is that when he was First Built, he was plagued with the horrible axle boxes. But latter, he got those Axel Boxes replaced with better ones that actually help him work how the LMS Garratts should. He is painted Black, with Grey lining and Boiler Banding.

[@joshslater2426]

I’m not a huge LMS fan to be honest. They’re ok, but they swallowed up a lot of my favourite pre-grouping companies. They made a lot of the boring standard designs you see everywhere in preservation, yet also a few beautiful designs such as the streamlined Duchess Pacifics and Hughes Crabs.

[@tankmicr00man]

7506 at 0.28 was an ex-North London Railway class 75 of 1879 vintage- anyone know if there's been a RTR version?

[@duncancurtis5108]

In the thrashin Thirties Crewe must've been busy all hours with steam steam steam.😊

[@joelwatkins]

Looking forward to the LNER video whenever it's ready

[@jaysontatum2336]

My favorite of the big four

[@ashleyjiscool]

The one that had the unfortunate rebuilds after it died

[@heidirabenau511]

Its the big boy.