Soldering station technology & the lie of "SOLDERING PATRIOTISM"

[@djole94hns]

"Fahrenheit has more steps within the useful temperature range" We have this brand new invention here called a decimal point

[@zoomerenhd]

Was just about to make that exact same comment XD.

[@Rudabaugh]

@Marcin Berman What are you talking about? "There is a fixed amount of digits" in between two chosen numbers? (E.g 1 & 2) Uhhh, no. There isn't. There is literally an infinite amount of numbers between 1&2. (or any other numbers)

[@Thinwhiteduke1185]

@@Rudabaugh ...He means there's a fixed amount of digits in the display and the software that's controlling the temperature.

[@benjaminlavigne2272]

@@Thinwhiteduke1185 but i'm guessing Dave did not understand Marcin's comment because of how easy it is to add more digits to the screen.

[@zuda8919]

lol congratulations, being so hung up about our systems of measurement. Must be really fulfilling

[@derekbrewer9681]

having done daily work with both a Hako 880D, Metcal automatic and an old Radio Shack Digital Weller clone I can honestly say that a classic ceramic core soldering pencil works just as well as the automatic integrated core system for surface mount work and most through hole. Unlike the integrated heating element system though, the separate core/tip last far longer. The hakko and the RS both never had an issue with their heating cores in 6 years, where as the metcal ate 100$ in tips a year. I'm willing to wait a few more seconds to heat up, if i dont have to buy an FX880 in tips every year....

[@BaradaNels]

I have a Hakko FX888D. It is ready to solder within 10-20 seconds depending on the job. I only paid about 100USD for it on amazon. I do not do a lot of soldering. I am only required to use it about 5-10 times weekly. But for my small workload it's the best bang for the buck. If I was doing Louis' workload of course I would want better. But if you're a hobbyist or have a small customer base, don't look any further than the Hakko FX888D. The issues that Louis describes with the temperature isn't nearly as big of a deal as he's making it out to be in those instances. EDIT: Another point that Louis fails to mention is the cost of maintenance. We all know that a Hakko device is more than likely going to last longer than the Chinese knockoffs that he is promoting. That is not my argument here. What he fails to mention at all is the cost of the tips of the older tech FX888D vs the newer tech FX951-66. A tip for the old tech is approximately 5 bucks. The same tip in the new tech is over 4 times that at approximately 22 bucks. Tips go bad no matter how well you take care of them. If you go with the newer tech, the initial cost isn't the only premium you will be paying. Now my original statement stands. If you have a heavy workload, then sure. Pay the premium and buy the better product. But if you don't need that . . . the FX888D is the best bang for the buck if you want genuine Hakko quality.

[@spartan456]

I started with an 888D as well, as a matter of fact I still regularly use it. However, one thing I would like to say is that the cartridge style of irons are in a completely different league. One day I got lucky and a friend told me about some FM-202's on eBay for $200. They came with the stand, brass sponge holder, 2027 handpiece, and the dumb little card to lock and unlock the station. Seller was willing to take best offers as well, so I asked if I could get one for $175, and I was able to. I was similar to you, not really doing that much soldering. Maybe 5-10 times a week. I'm still in that same zone actually. But once you try using one of these cartridge stations you'll just wonder how you ever put up with the older ones. I like the 888D, it's a great station, it really is. If it wasn't, I wouldn't still be using it as much as I do now. But the comfort and utility of the cartridge ones makes them completely worth it in my book. The tips may be more expensive, but you'll be replacing tips on the cartridge ones just about as often as you would be on the older ones. It may be 4x more money per tip, but if you're replacing them once a year then it's not that much of a problem at all. Just having the ability to rapidly swap tips, while they're still hot and the station is still running, is a complete game changer. You might think "I never change tips", but when you have a handful of different tips to choose from and swapping to them takes all of 10 seconds, you'll inevitably find yourself changing them all the time as you progress through the repair. Being able to swap to a knife tip after using a bevel without having to wait ten minutes is amazing. When I use the 888 I'm reluctant to change tips because I'll have to wait for it to cool down, or deal with handling a very hot chunk of metal and trying to secure a new tip on if I want to save time. So I just rarely find myself wanting to change tips when I use it. The real benefit of these cartridge stations is the incredible ease of changing tips, it makes your workflow so much simpler and less time consuming.

[@BaradaNels]

@@spartan456 I can definitely see the usefulness of changing tips on the fly. With that said, I would never do this. Specifically because I calibrate the temperature every time I change the tip using this: www.banggood.com/DANIU-FG-100-Soldering-Iron-Tip-Thermometer-Temperature-Detector-Tester-0-700-p-952899.html?akmClientCountry=America&&cur_warehouse=CN Don't get me wrong. I am all for saving time. But my soldering jobs are normally multi-tasking events. I recently built a few Mechanical keyboards. Took me like 4 days to make them all. But during that time, I took care of 100 other things that needed done. Finally, for the price you paid . . . I would have done the same thing.

[@spartan456]

@@BaradaNels Something worth mentioning, a lot of these higher end stations actually calibrate the tip automatically. The T12/T15 tips from Hakko for example all have a barcode on the very end of them. On the FM-202, you can slide the tip's barcode end into a port on the station, and after a second or two it will recalibrate to a new profile specifically for that tip. It's actually super fancy. But yeah, I can see what you're saying. If you wanted to ensure the tip is really working the way it's supposed to, you'd either have to get an external calibrator, or have a station like the FM-202 that can calibrate them automatically. If you don't have a station with built-in calibration, then you really won't be saving much time with the cartridge tips, since you'd have to use the external calibrator to check them anyway. RE the multitasking, this is actually what I like so much about the cartridge stations. At work I regularly use my old 888D (I bought it myself and brought it to work after I bought the FM-202). The thing about my job is I am almost constantly interrupted. I'll sit down to start something and 30 seconds later I could have to turn everything off, get up, and do something else like talk on the phone or help a walk in customer. The 888D is super incompatible with this kind of constant, interrupting workflow. I turn the station on, it warms up, I tin it up, then I have to stop. I turn everything off because I have no idea how long I'll be away, it all cools down. I come back to it 5 or 10 minutes later and have to wait for it to all warm up again, re-tin everything, and hope I can solder what I need to before I get interrupted again. The 202 on the other hand warms up in less than 10 seconds. If I have to shut my 202 off to go do something it's not that big of a deal, it'll be ready to go again in a negligible amount of time. I would have to say that my biggest complaint is these types of irons have been around since, like, the late 80's and early 90's. They've been patented for at least 30 years, but there are VERY FEW consumer level irons that utilize the technology. With how long these irons have been around I would think that there would be way more consumer level ones that are cartridge based, but there just aren't that many at all. In fact, the only one I can think of is the PACE ADS200. And that is still $100 more than what I spent on the used FM-202. I was really happy to see a cartridge station appear in that price range because it's still pretty affordable, albeit on the high end. It would be great if more companies would do the same thing. Cartridge irons have been around for decades, there's no reason they should still be confined to $500+ stations.

[@BaradaNels]

@@spartan456 www.ebay.com/c/1331539188 Found an FM-202 for only 180 on ebay. Seller seems reputable. I will consider it. I still don't think my workload would ever require that . . . but having another iron on backup and taking my 888D to the office sounds like a good idea. Would need to buy another exhaust fan too. So another 50. We'll see. It's obviously a quality iron.

[@androiduberalles]

My 888 is working great for my hobbyist level stuff I wonder what a little aluminum foil would go between the heater and the tip. I'm not gonna try it but would be interesting to see if it helps conduction.

[@MartinKincl1993]

In my country, the FX-951 costs around $450 after tax, while the FX-888D is $170 after tax. Also, price isn't the only thing. When it comes to soldering stations, you might want to buy something that's not going to set your house on fire. You might want to buy something with a warranty. You might want to buy something that will last a while.

[@mr.simulator4724]

sometimes you want to buy something that can actually solder.

[@Rubafix989]

With Celsius you can use decimals for more precision where it's needed, but the scale reference points are what makes it better imho: 0 is freezing water, 100 is boiling water. You can easily gauge a temperature based on those limits, and even more precisely knowing that 37°C is body temp & 50 is sunny desert. In Fahrenheit every reference point is random numbers: 96°F is internal body temp, 32°F is freezing water, 212°F is boiling water etc

[@mjc0961]

Fahrenheit excels for outdoor weather. 0 is freaking cold, 100 is freaking hot. Whereas Celsius devolves into random numbers here: the same range is -17 to 37. A scale based around water's phase changes is useless for weather and human comfort. For everything else, sure. Celsius all the way. But weather in Fahrenheit or GTFO.

[@RayRay-mv9wn]

​@@mjc0961 0°C gives great gauge of weather, if it goes under zero, you must expect snow or frozen rain instead rain, ice on roads etc.

[@NytronX]

@@mjc0961 Well said, I agree completely. With that said, I wish we would use the metric system for distance type of measurements.

[@bencze465]

@@mjc0961 -17 doesn't really differ from -16 or -18 in terms of comfort. There's no threshold there, or at 37 either. Sure it's fun to have barrels (32 gallons? depends which barrel after all it's different for wine or beer), fingers (7/8 inch, how intuitive) or even knots but it's not very practical, and even amusing how some try to hang onto these. I mean I like steam machines, but they belong in a museum...

[@tedsmart5539]

@@bencze465 We talking Imperial gallons or US gallons???

[@Blake91818]

I just use a bic and bendy straws to solder my work

[@InvidiousIgnoramus]

Dillon Nollid wait, you don't use a candle? You're fancy.

[@cameronsmith5968]

I use hot glue #Lifehack

[@KX36]

I just phone a premium rate number and breathe heavily on my solder joints.

[@NoMoreBsPlease]

Dillon I use a pencil and a wall charger.

[@DannyGruesome]

No More BS Please poppin them sockets huh? Lmao

[@TSteffi]

I have a old-style Weller Magnastat station, and i am totally satisfied with it. Not the most fancy thing ever, but it is extremely reliable. I got this thing from a company i worked at over 10 years ago, and the company had used it for 10 years before that. Only thing i had to change in all those years were some tips, and since the tips don't have the heating element in them they are very cheap and can be swapped out in seconds.

[@dustin9258]

The old technology stations are still worlds better than a $20 iron that just plugs into the wall. I use the hakko fx888 every day at work with no issues. It heats up in a reasonable amount of time for what I do. I also have one at home that is overkill for home use. So maybe it’s just because I’ve never used a new technology station, but I have absolutely no issues with the fx888. Plus replacement soldering tips are relatively cheap and readily available. Although now I would like to use a new station just so I could really see how big of a difference it makes.

[@310shadow310]

Which station do you use? I'm looking into getting one

[@PhasedragonWF]

Louis, have you tried the TS100? That thing is an absolute beast. It's marketed as portable, so you can power it from a battery or just a wall-wart. Even compared to full-fledged stations, it's still very impressive. Great example of where technology is at nowadays, and anything less for higher price is simply disappointing.

[@samdeur]

After hearing Louis talk about the heating element being in the tip i thought about the TS100 that could be a great option for someone like me that wants to solder his own keyboard and perhaps later on repair small electronics. Check out Marco Reps where he compares it whit a Weller Like Louis he mentions the heating element around 03:45 kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpjVc2iGYtd3gtk

[@samdeur]

only thing that's missing is a nice low cost desoldering iron. The Hakko FR-301 is €300 i could go for the "aoyue-8800" that one is €165 even the larger Aoyue 474A++ is €179 instead of the more expensive Hakko FR-301.. De soldering is full size keyboard with a hand solder sucker seems a nightmare..

[@cowwels]

I have TS100 and i will not buy another iron for a long time. I pay $50.

[@samdeur]

do you use it for longer period say 1,5 hours ?? doing a large project?

[@cowwels]

I use it all day long, but at max 10 min. each soldering. More than that heat is transfer to the iron body. It is just 'incovenient' but hold it for an hour must be unconfortable...

[@electronash]

6:38 Haha - So weird seeing my comments on one of these vids. It's tough to convey to people about what it's like using a "direct-heating" soldering station vs the older style with a separate heater. Until I used a Metcal at work (about 15 years ago), I'd used many of the usual brands of iron, from Antex to Weller, including the cheapo mains irons and the expensive stations with big chunky transformers that heated up much faster. But, I then used the direct-heat Metcal stuff for an hour or so per day, and I've never looked back. I couldn't really justify the cost of a brand-new station for home use at the time, so I bought a second-hand SP-200 for only around £70 on eBay (including a chisel tip, handpiece, and stand). A few years later, I then saw an MX-500 station for only around £100 on eBay, and couldn't resist. That was more than ten years ago now, and the MX-500 is STILL going strong. The tips cost around £11-16 on average, but last easily 4 years or more if taken care of, which is much longer than most of the cheap mains irons last (at a similar cost to a new Metcal tip). It's easy for people to say it's somehow "elitist" to champion the direct-heat stuff, and yes, they do cost a fair bit more new, but I guess you would have to try one for a few weeks to see the light. :p Something like that 951 looks ideal at around $250, and I reckon it would pay for itself in no time. So yes, IMHO, I would say that the extra $100-150 for a direct-heat soldering station is worth every penny. I don't think I'll ever go back to using the older style iron. That's especially true if you don't mind buying second-hand, as the stations are generally very robust and reliable, so it's well worth taking a chance on one, as long as you're not relying on it for "mission critical" use. I sold two of my previous Metcal / OKI stations to friends over 4 years ago, and those stations are also still working great, even with the same original tips that were included.

[@electronash]

Oh, wow, I hadn't even seen Dave's follow-up reply of "2nd-hand doesn't count" yet, as I just got back from a weekend break. So, thanks for making a better point, Louis. lol You're right - I would also much rather use a $100 knock-off station or second-hand direct-heat, OR just pay the extra $150 for something like the genuine Hakko 951 than use the older style tech, any day of the week. I kind of expected some of the sillier replies on Dave's vid when I first posted on there, but I would bet that at least 60% of those people have never used both types of soldering tech over many years in both a production environment and at home before forming their opinions. I don't think I'm too biased either, as I'd used all sorts of cheap AND very expensive soldering stations for many years before settling on a direct-heat system for personal use. At the four different electronics factories I worked at (Nortel, Bookhams, AVX, and Syntech), they used the direct-heat stuff almost exclusively (Weller, Pace, Metcal / OKI, JBC etc.). I think that says a lot. lol

[@Roel_Scoot]

I stand with Dave, Fahrenheit is garbage and non intuitive and contradicts everything you just said about favouring the new technology ;-)) and please go metric!

[@jasongooden917]

Only 3 countries are still Imperial, 1. USA and two countries that nobody cares about...lol

[@TremereTT]

+Jason The other two countries don't realy use imperial...because they import in Metric...and they need to export in metric and no one besides grocerymarked women use imperial in these countries.

[@mjc0961]

You and Dave are wrong. Fahrenheit is incredibly intuitive, it's Celsius that's garbage and non-intuitive (unless you need to measure the temperature of water, in which case it's great)

[@TremereTT]

+mjc0961 I bet you are a male US citizen without a scientific degree.... When do you not measure the temperture of weather or water in everyday live ? Celsius is optimal for these use cases. Only if you are doing physics like astronnomy or particle physics I would use kelvin instead.

[@GoetzimRegen]

Lord Kelvin rule them all :-)

[@DFX4509B]

No real problems with the FX-888D for a starter station, hell, some people may want to solder for crafts rather than electronics repair, for example, and something like an FX-888D is perfect for that purpose, if not overkill, and it's also fine for the hobbyist-level or low-volume electronics repair operations for which it was intended.

[@AM-yj5yc]

The complaints about not wanting to spend a couple hundred dollars due to poverty are, to me, a bit irritating. I'm on disability, and while I'm immensely grateful to my province for allowing me to not be dying slowly on the streets in complete abject poverty, I don't exactly have a wide margin of error in my personal budget. I have to contribute to supporting my family, pay for housing and all other expenses on a comparatively tiny amount of money, especially in a very expensive Canadian city. I have been putting away small amounts of money, once a month, in an envelope for almost a year and a half, since I started watching YT electronics videos and learning, from scratch, everything there is to know about both modern and 'antique' electronics. Most months, I'm able to save $20 or so, and with patience and mental resistance to spending the saved money, I'm within a few months of being able to put together a rudimentary lab and start playing with this stuff. Ideally, I hope to be able to make some of my own money with this knowledge (thanks to Louis) and support myself despite being unable to work a normal job due to major health issues. I understand I'm quite blessed to have a government willing to help me, and I also understand that even in more wealthy nations, there are many people in far worse poverty than I am. If you really want this, however, it is absolutely worth your time and a few dollars a month to save up slowly and patiently; the knowledge here is worth tons of money if properly applied, and if you've been wstching these videos from people like Louis and Dave Jones, you've been given a ticket to tons of profit with in detail explanations on every aspect of running this kind of business for absolutely free. In the not to distant past, all this knowledge available here on YT would have cost tens of thousands of dollars and at least four years in a university. If you are serious at all about this, even as a hobby, you can amass the money for gear that is slighty more expensive than the lowest hanging fruit, for a massive increase in quality; you even have access to detailed knowledge and reviews about these products here, again, for free. I know this will piss some people off who feel they still won't ever be able to afford this stuff, but I suggest anyone who feels they can't to just try putting a few dollars away each month. You'll be surprised how quickly it feels like you grow your savings and the end investment is absolutely worth it, even if it takes a few years.

[@ian1352]

The point is why spend two to three times as much on a soldering iron when the cheaper one will work just fine? Here the 951 is at least 2.5x as expensive as the 888. The 888 is already quite expensive by local standards. Budget variable soldering irons can be had for a quarter of the price. And they're what most people buy because even the cheapest Hakko is a luxury.

[@antiekeradio]

When looking for a source of the knockoff Hakko FX-951 I came across a number of even simpler and cheaper stations that seem to use the new technology, with quick heat-up times etc.. the nice thing is that they are even cheaper.. The common name I found is T12, which seems to be the type of tip connector/handpiece they use.

[@Multifuchs]

...but the 386 has a TURBO-Button! =)

[@InvidiousIgnoramus]

jiddschdr Turbo down clocks the CPU anyway.

[@JohnCena-iw2vk]

depends on the settings.

[@johnfrancisdoe1563]

jiddschdr The 386 doesn't suffer from Spectre/Meltdown like the Pentium II and later.

[@KX36]

doesn't matter that the turbo button turned down the clock to 4.77MHz. It was a button that said "turbo" on it and in the 80s-90s, that made anything awesome. :)

[@captainbodyshot2839]

@@johnfrancisdoe1563 A security risk that no one has ever taken advantage of in the real world is a small price to pay for instruction pipelining

[@Dodoid]

"If you're holding them for, you know, five or ten or twenty minutes, they may start to kind of burn your hands" I've got an Aoyue and even it doesn't do that.

[@super5oldier139]

I don't want to disappoint him, but I've never heard of this problem

[@obfuscated3090]

Soldering stations are like welding machines. Most hobbyists don't know even expensive industrial welding power sources are treated as "consumables" in production and especially construction. They exist to join metal and that they produce sufficient number of proper joints for their cost that is all that matters. Either machine needs only to last long enough and produce enough quality joints! Pace make nice stuff but for the cost you could equip most of a workbench, get going, and should they wish to buy a Pace they can AFFORD them. There isn't a hell of a lot inside a Pace or anything else. I just dissected a dead one to save the case for a project box and while the components are clearly industrial quality and I can afford one I will not be buying from them because that extra money will put much more equipment on my workbench! The high price delta means a customer can have a ready spare and still have change left over.

[@nsciucco]

I just use a cheap $20 60 watt soldering iron from eBay. Been using it for almost 10 years.. It gets to full temp in less than 10 seconds. As a hobbyist, why would you need any quicker? Maybe if I was doing board repairs for a living I would get a "modern" soldering iron. But I honestly don't care if the heating element is built into the tip.

[@tokargaify]

Damn straight. Yeah I know this comment is old but I'm new to soldering. I'm just buying 2 $15 dollar pens that plug into the wall. As long as there's a tiny screen with temp I'm good.

[@samdeur]

Louis after hearing you talk about the heating element and the tech behind it. i wanted to ask you about the TS100 OpenSource portable soldering iron. it uses the same tech you mentioned here.. if i understand you correctly buying that $66 soldering iron would be better than a FX-88D. my use case is soldering a couple of mechanical keyboards getting in to the hobby.. Here's a nice vid about the TS100 it stars getting interesting around 01:35 Would love to hear your opinion perhaps even try one out ?????

[@tunahankaratay1523]

The only problem of TS100 is the difficulty of grounding the tip. But if you invest some time, it will be fairly ok.

[@dwindeyer]

Still ended up getting an FX-888D.. Something about high temperatures and knockoff brands doesn't sit well with me

[@Brian-uq6jm]

I'm a hobbyist. I've been using a cheap hakko 936 knock-off iron, the Yihua 939D (75W). It holds temp very well and heats up quite fast. It has been very reliable. Does it work and fit all my needs? Abso-fucking-lutely yes. Do I need any of the new tech crap? No. however, I do have the TS-100 because I was fascinated by the fact that the firmware is open-source. So if you're just starting out, maybe all you need is something just like the Yihua 939D for about $30-40.

[@Spartacusse]

8:48 *Just to correct Luiz there, fahrenheit IS garbage because you don't have a clean 0 to 100 scale, where 0º freezes, 100º boils and disinfection at around 70º.* (More steps isn't even an argument, just add a ',' (comma) and have decimal values from ,0 to ,9. Just like meter and millimeter system... Oh, wait, you probably like the the imperial garbage too)😂

[@bassome3000ify]

What I understand is, just wait 3 seconds with my old cheap soldering iron :) Without integrated tip to heater element

[@ToumalRakesh]

Sure. But now solder a big chunky connector. Integrated heater tips are just immensely superior. One thing I'd say about the JBC though is that it *still* has a better thermal capacity than the hakko IMHO. Your mileage may vary.

[@bassome3000ify]

Toumal Rakesh nice input 👍 it does make sense. After all it gets back to feasibility or worthiness

[@ToumalRakesh]

Absolutely. JBC is expensive, I love mine, but I honestly could've lived with the Hakko knockoff as well. The only real drawback is their user interface, which is terrible. "Alarm Clock Interface" indeed. A rotary encoder would be superior. Simple up/down buttons would've done the job. Like on the JBC. Thermal capacity may be bigger, but the question is whether it's $200 bigger...

[@hellterminator]

+Toumal Rakesh Put on a chunky tip and/or raise the temperature. Sure, it's not as good as a JBC with a high thermal capacity tip, but it'll get the job done. Of course if you're a professional that's an unacceptable waste of time, but if you're just a hobbyist, you can get by with $30 Hakko knockoff.

[@thetechgenie7374]

I prefer the weller but the WX series. Just due to also work on a lot of older stuff and well and having 200w is useful and built quality is better then the hakko I tried.

[@tHaH4x0r]

You can also build your own JBC station, just buy the tipholder and tip for 100$, build the rest yourself for 100$ and you have a JBC feel and quality for 200$.

[@androiduberalles]

You have to include the value of your time in that though.

[@Skauber]

Rather than spending the 100 bucks on a knockoff chinese hakko 951, I'd spend the money on the excellent TS100 soldering iron, which is an ideal low cost soldering iron for hobby use. Paired with a 24V DC power supply, it's very powerful at 65W and can handle just about anything you throw at it. I've done fine soldering and soldering of heavy gauge wiring with it, and it performs very well. For everyday use in a professional environment I'd spend a bit more on the soldering iron of course, but for your typical DIY hobbyist which needs a versatile iron that can handle a variety of different soldering applications, the TS100 is a very good and cheap choice, and is better built than the typical chinese knockoff stations.

[@therealb888]

Skauber I feel so bad I didn't buy the TS100 before now it's $100. I remember it being 30-40$ 😢

[@Skauber]

Depends on which bundle and where you buy it. Aliexpress still has it for 65$ (free shipping, depending on your location) including two tips, but no power supply, or even 56$ with one tip. Here's one example, even has a box, which is the same I purchased: www.aliexpress.com/item/TS100-Mini-Digital-Electric-USB-Smart-Adjustable-Soldering-Iron-Set-with-2-Solder-Iron-Tips-K/32839724274.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.83.17e45b8fXcEshP&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10151_10065_10344_10068_10342_10343_5722611_10340_10341_10696_5722911_5722811_10084_5722711_10083_10618_10307_5711211_10059_308_100031_10103_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620_5711311_5722511-10152,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_3&algo_expid=0fc66160-5188-4d6b-a8a3-c92e6989b1bc-11&algo_pvid=0fc66160-5188-4d6b-a8a3-c92e6989b1bc&priceBeautifyAB=0

[@hddrecoveryservices]

yeah, but the JBC is so good for flexing on the gram

[@joshm264]

Another great "new technology" station is the KSGER T12 station. If you get one that's from Ksger, not Shine now or Quecoo, I think you'll be very happy, because I know I am

[@EddieSLC]

This guy is great! Got to love a tech guy with a personality-that simply talks no bs talk!

[@211teitake]

Buying crappy products with higher price is a handout and against free market economy. People should have a freedom to buy what they like. If a weak business run by weak people cannot survive without handouts from people or government, it should be eradicated.

[@LemoUtan]

An almost criminally deceptive graph at the beginning where you are required to notice that the y-axis on the first graph is 20-350 whereas on the second it's 280-350. The second graph's yawning chasms would appear as small bumps on the first's steady state line.

[@Monkeh616]

You're also required to notice one is for heating time from cold and one is for maintaining set temperature under load.. It's not deceptive if you can read.

[@rossmanngroup]

It is as I called it enemy propaganda, I just loaded it up to make a point

[@LemoUtan]

+Monkeh - fair enough. Although Mr Rossman had already explained that 'propaganda'. It's the kind effected by the juxtaposition of those graphs as a visual montage - Eisenstein'n'all that. Nothing to do with text (which I can manage adequately, thanks).

[@nexaentertainment2764]

Not just that, but the irons recovery time is *gasp* 5.5 whole seconds! Wow, what are you gonna do! Time is money! Chop chop, I lost 3 cents of my time just waiting here! Honestly it might important for a professional like Louis, but for most home users, hobbyists, or people not doing super heavy work, it's almost irrelevant. Better spend 2.5x as much on an iron that recovers 5.5 seconds faster! Yeah! Sound advice! Or just buy a knock-off station! Yeah! Honestly a knock off isn't a bad idea if you're just getting started. But you're still better off with genuine gear most of the time.

[@KX36]

it's not "deceptive", it's "statistics".

[@joshbryant1133]

This was really helpful. I have a low budget (I'm a teenager with a min. wage job) and I was about to buy an fx-888 instead of a hakko t12 tip station made by a company called KSGER but now I think I will change my mind. I guess I was more motivated by the hakko brand name than anything else.

[@CompGuy66]

I would say go for the KSGER T12 tip station. I am a university student who has been using a cheap $20 soldering iron for over 10 years and I finally decided to look into a better soldering station. I honestly wish I knew about the KSGER and other affordable t12 tip compatible stations earlier. I thought that good soldering stations still cost $250+ so I just stuck with my $20 station which would take forever to heat up and only has one tip making it impossible to work with anything that has a lot of densely packed pins. Only recently did I discover that there are a lot more options on the market. I honestly feel so dumb that I put up with cave man era tools instead of finding the time to do some research.

[@joshbryant1133]

@@CompGuy66 thanks for the comment. I got it a couple months ago and I'm LOVING it. It takes, at most, 5 seconds to warm up. And the tip to handle distance is fantastic. My only issue is the temperature fluctuates a little (±5 degrees) but that might be my fault because I tried to calibrate it and I didn't know I needed a soldering iron thermometer. Other than that it's a fantastic piece of kit.

[@giacintoboccia9386]

Interestingly, the even older tecnology was Weller Magastat where the heating element is separate but the sensor is the tip, because it senses the temperature based on the magnetic properties of the alloy uesd in the tip.

[@pa4tim]

I went back from a station with the element in the tip (Metcal crap around 700 euro, I had 2 of them) to a station with the heating element not in the tip. Even worse, the tips are fixed with a screw. Being my antique over 20 year old Pace MBT-250 Dropping temp while soldering ? If so it was and is never been a problem. I can desolder like 200 joints without any problem and soldering too. I have it at 320 celcius and I can solder shielding tins or massive ground planes without any problem. If it drops it is only a few degrees. It takes time to heat up but that means it also takes time to cool down ;-) OK this station cost serious money but for me as a professional repair tech it is the ducks guts. Tips cost little and last for ever. Changing them is easy. They still sell parts and I have never used a better desoldering iron as the SX100. I do not say all cartridge tip stations are crap, I say that not all old-fashioned stations style stations are crap. But wait until all cheap crappy stations are the cartridge types. That cheap crap stations with the heater not in the tip do not work very well, does not mean the principle sucks.

[@mrlazda]

You are not only one who have that experience, PACE is hard to beat, I tested JBC and from my experience (and what I hear from people who have use/try both) "old" PACE technology is much superior to "new" JBC.I tested JBC simply because on internet many people say it is great soldering iron and I do not argue with that, and it is superior to Hakko or Weller and many others, but at end I just bought another PACE which is much better (from my experience) even I was never big fan of PS-90 handle. Here PACE is not popular (here Ersa, JBC and Metcal are most popular, even Weller is more popular PACE even all agree that new Weller are crap compared to old Weller), but everyone who so some "serious" work/production (and have money) and try PACE switched to it.

[@Monkeh616]

You can dump a lot of power in to heat slowly with poor thermal contact, it does not imply thermal mass. Just because it heats slowly, doesn't mean it will cool slowly. And no, I'm not criticising your Pace - I'm just pointing out a faulty assumption. And my 25+ year old Metcal does just fine.

[@pa4tim]

General speaking you are right, good to mention. However, I was only talking about my Pace PS-90 sensatemp and SX100 sensatemp powered by a MBT-250 (black edition ;-) ) A cartridge heater is no warranty for a good station. The sense part must be in the right place, be the right type. It must have enough power and a fast enough controller . There is a larger part of the tip exposed so possible more loss. For the budget brands still lots off possibilities to fool the customer. I only buy original tips but it is not to hard to make usable knockoffs . I sometimes make my own tips for special purpose. But a knock-off cartridge is a much bigger risk, not only regarding how long is will work but for cartridge irons the tips design is a big part of the performance. My Metcals were superfast and bizar powerful. I did like that but cartridges where almost 40 euro's . The desolderpumps were worn after 1,5 years. I worn down 3 hoof cartidges, they still looked like new but the coil part was open. Two handpieces. The fist after a few months, the second after 1,5 years. The cable became over 100C. I known problem but after 1.5 years and a burned arm no guaranty. The desolder gun is also replaced within a year and I wore down 4 tips. But to be fair, I have an OKI/Metcal hot air station, I think I have it around 8 years now and not a single problem. My back-up station for the last 10 years (and for SMD because it is not als bulky as the Pace PS-90,) station is a Weller WS-81. Not the thermal performance of the Pace but very usable. Replaced the tip-sleeve once (5 euro) , still the same tips I bought when I bought the station. I use them for hobby (restoring testgear, Tubes, RF stuff, most hings I build are dead bug on groundplanes) and work (repairing measurement and calibration gear)

[@e30Birdy]

I went for the JBC and happy i did.. cost me a lot of money but it will last me forever. The Hakko 951 is 368 euro here which is what the JBC cost so i went for the JBC.

[@acoustic61]

IMO, all irons, even in the $100 price range, should use tip cartridges. They don't seem to cost more to make. I repair music equipment, older guitar amps with point-to-point wiring, old thru-hole PCB's and some newer, smaller stuff. I've been using a Weller EC1002 station for 25-30 years. I want to get a new iron with faster recovery. Considering the FX-951. Also, I'm wondering how the new Pace ADS200 will be? The FX-951 is 75W. The Pace is 120W which for my use, may be better with higher thermal mass tips. The Hakko comes with a setback stand which is optional for exta cost with Pace. Do I need a setback stand? Probably not.. The Pace will sleep after 10 minutes. The Hakko is hugely popular with parts availability galore. Will the Pace become popular? BTW, the transformers used in Pace are Chinese made. A lot to consider. I think I'll wait for the reviews of the new Pace station before deciding.

[@robbyxp1]

Totally agree. The buy X brigade (replace X with your country name) obv has never read any economic history. The experiment was tried in the 30's and ended up with a deep recession across the world. An Example. If we in England decide only to buy British products, that means we won't be buying any American Boeing airliners. You won't be buying any Airbus airlines because they are not American. Competition is reduced, prices increase, consumers suffer. This of course is ignoring the fact that a lot of parts inside Boeing and Airbus aircraft are made in each others countries. Economic suicide ;-)

[@therealb888]

robbyxp1 The worst part is consumers suffer right?. But let's just ask why? The answer is prices increase. Ok but why do prices increase? Well no competition right?!. I say ok cool there's no competition is that affecting any production costs or any initial investments?, 9/10 times no. So Why the hell does the price increase if there's no competition?. The answer is: GREED, that's right capitalism is a greedy, unequal, wild system. If there isn't someone to hold u back, all ur gonna do is exploit the weak, exploit the individuals, the consumers. Consumers don't drive prices and IT IS NOT A FREE MARKET. It's a manipulation market. There is no contentment.

[@davadoff]

Only buy X country only applied when you had a choice, I thought. So airbus and Boeing is ok. Sometimes you don’t want to buy from some countries at all if they are cheaper by exploiting & destroying the environment or climate.

[@SchwachsinnProduzent]

This new technology might be interesting, but I will keep my cheap (~40€) ZD-937. It needs a little bit longer to heat up, but it will do the job it has to do. I have gotten 3 machines for less than the one you recommended. ZD-937 (~40€), Desolderingstation ZD-915 (~80€) and a hot air station 858D+ (30€).

[@florianoberacker6500]

It is not about, if it´s the "new fancy technologie" or the "crappy old one", soldering stations are all about the sensing and the control technologie. In the company I work (and any other company I know) use soldering stations from kurtz ersa, which is like industry standard or industry premium. They all have "the old crappy technologie", but melts solder in less then 4 seconds after turning on. You can also control how aggressively it heats and its temperature is very stable, even if you solder on a ground plane.

[@billybbob18]

I have a 50+ year old Weller station (well older than me) with the 4 prong offset plug. It was originally in the navy, then spent time in a lab and now its on my desk (I'm the 3rd owner). I used it the other day and found that something wasn't right. Either an element or the magnastat is going out. I get a good hr of use before it starts to malfunction. Model # TCP-1. I hop to fix it up as my de-solder rig. It still has the de-solder bulb attachment, chisel scraper and dip remover. Due to it's age, I'm not going to trust it with my MCU projects but i like using really old stuff in every practical way.

[@fieldlab4]

Back in the ancient days I used a Weller workstation with a little temp dial and a pencil iron with chisel slug tip, and it would solder heavy 16 gauge wires into sockapex stage lighting connectors, all day long. 24 wires per connector. And the English fractional system is mostly far superior for too many technical reasons to list. We never should have gone metric. The reasons were mostly silly.

[@m2useinu]

Crap on the $100 station because it's not worth $20. It doesn't work. It works as a wood burning tool intermittently but that's it

[@ainzooalgown7589]

a good budget soldering station is KSGER T12, it uses hakko 951 tips and soldering iron and can be found for around $50

[@Vizeroy9]

If you have a good sensor position and know your system, you can get a very close temperature control on the "old" technology. You just have to avoid simple regulator types. Edit: Time to reaching the 350°C target temperature is mostly defined by the power of the reating element... So JBC implemented stronger heating elements. Great.

[@pr0xZen]

It makes sense. Most of these older tecgnologies had _at least_ two seperate objects' surfaces interfacing before reaching the tip, and _at least_ a good inch of materials+layers between the thermal sensor and tip. As thermal energy build in or drain from the tip, it takes a good while for the sensor to know that. With age and use, inner surfaces (those you can't easily service) of heater elements, tips, mounting parts - they wear and oxidize, causing decreasing surface contact and thermal conducticity. With all this baked into one part, we (to most extents) eliminate these oxidation issues, we can better control galvanic contact, and we can move both the heating element amd thermal sensors riiight up there where we need it. As an added bonus to hobbyists who favor the Hakko route, some knock-off tips have gotten seriously good for a very affordable price, and the Quicko / KSGER / Insert-(re)brand-here T12 stations have also gotten pretty dope for $40'ish with the cheapest handle and a few T12 tips, or another 15-20 with an onboard PSU. There are the self-contained irons like the TS80 and 100, although personally I perfer one that is more ergonomical and plays better with T12 tips (because of cost and availability).

[@bobingabout]

I do have a question though. I burn through tips quite often. How much would you pay for a tip, that is just a tip that you put over your element, vs a tip, that has an element built in? The iron I actually use most often is an Antex XS25. it's a stick a plug in a socket and go, not even temperature controlled.

[@alexisfrjp]

Why nobody is talking about the fx950? It's almost 100$ cheaper for the same features and accepts T12 tips!

[@ScooterFXRS]

On the job issue.....there is Nothing that guarantees that the high "Made in America" sticker that the high cost goes to the workers. A lot of companies hire cheap, work the labor force lean & hard and pocket the money or is transferred to high overhead favoring someone else's pockets. Which kinda negates the quality issue. Temperature scales, L0L, you Me-Tric fans crack me up with the "math" argument. Ya all want to stick with your acme threads, fine. I like using fine threads for many things.

[@mrjohhhnnnyyy5797]

I bought a station kit from ebay for 27 bucks, uses modern cartridge "tips", made a power supply for it and voila! Really makes a difference. Heats up in 9 seconds, convenient.

[@therealb888]

MrJohhhnnnyyy Hey pls pls give me a link to buy it. Is it temperature controlled with feedback?. Pls reply.

[@mrjohhhnnnyyy5797]

b888 You can find the link below the video on my channel "t12 kit review". If I'm gonna whack the link right here, this response might go straight to spambox. You won't see it at all, I've been there.

[@coli24200]

Louis , I want to thank you for all the things I've learned with you, you are a great teacher!...but sometimes you repeat so many times the same thing that I fall into sleep :)

[@carpandrei7493]

These days you can buy lots of different controllers for T12-T15 hakko tips for around 20 USD or less. Kits to build a small soldering station (box, encoder, connectors, a tip and holder) can be had for about 35 USD. You need a power supply, but still, over-all you can have Hakko soldering quality for about 50USD or maybe less. You can also buy fake Hakko tips for about 3USD/piece and they work amazingly well! I have several of them and for a hobbyist, this is more than enough. The TS100 is even a better package with a much smaller desk footprint and perhaps better ergonomic!

[@Electronic4081]

I wish I saw this 6 years ago when I bought my fx-888d. It was a good iron for a long while, but I had no idea I was missing out on so much. I used metcal stations at work and I was blown away by the performance. The jump back and forth from the fx-888d to the MX-5200 was too large I had to get a hold of a metcal myself. I'm sure the jump from the FX-951 wouldn't be nearly as bad.

[@ClokworkGremlin]

American companies don't deserve my business just for being in the same country that I live in. American companies deserve my business if, and *ONLY* if, they offer better services at better value than overseas companies do. Take some pride in your country. Prove you can do it better than they can overseas.

[@angeldelvax7219]

I bought a chinese soldering station for about $60,- and I'm very pleased with it. Yes, it's slower than the hakko, but it does have a hot-air unit, and for me it does what I need it for. That being said, I do agree with what you're saying! The newer technology IS better in this case, even if you buy the knock-off. So even if the cheap chinese set works for my hobby needs, if I needed it to solder every day I'd prefer to spend a bit more money to buy better equipment.

[@fallingwater]

Another TS100 convert here, after owning two traditional soldering stations. The first thing I did after trying mine out was order another one to have a backup in case the unthinkable happens. I needed something that could do high power joints because I work a lot with drones (whose main power wires can easily carry 100+A), and once you crank up the temperature the TS100 *will* do them - which is nothing short of miraculous when you consider how tiny it is. And of course it's an excellent all-round iron, good for SMD work too if you order the special narrow tip.

[@GlishaSo]

still on ts100 after 4 years ? or you founded something better ?

[@fallingwater]

@@GlishaSo I now mostly run a KSGER T12. It's a fixed soldering station so a little more ergonomic for benchtop work, also it runs cheaper T12 tips. But I still have my two TS100 as backups and if I need to solder somewhere else. However, there is a better portable iron today - the Pinecil v2, effectively an evolution of the TS100.

[@GlishaSo]

@@fallingwater ok cool i love to see that i am on same way i had 1 ts100 and before few months i purchased T12 and now using them both how i feel but yeah t12 have cheaper tips and its own power. nice yeah i saw pinecill v2 its sick but still i think i am good with this one and will wait maybe little more for it or not change it at all we will see :) and to be honest these days im fighting to find good soldering wire in EU idk. sometimes mechanic from ali is ok but still searching for good one. i had 250g old one loctite it was amazing but now idk if you have some rly good to recommend tell me :) tnx

[@No-mq5lw]

@@fallingwater TS100 tips are identical to T12, but shorter and with a collar. Pinecil V2 even more so.

[@fallingwater]

@@No-mq5lw am aware, but running T12 tips in the TS100/Pinecil results in a long-ass monstrosity that requires a custom grip and is really awkward to handle.

[@kimjongun365]

For all those suggesting the ts100, a hakko is much more reliable than a Chinese soldering iron, he has to fix a lot of boards in a day so he needs one that will last a lifetime. He doesn’t need portability. Also a proper station means the actual iron is lighter which would be nicer.

[@Arek_R.]

Could you please compare ts100 to 951?

[@cypherf0x]

People I know don't normally spend money on the hot air station, they just buy the rework station that has supplies for air and vacuum. The MBT-301 and MBT-350 being the primary two for all-in-one units.

[@daishi5571]

You can spend ~$100 for an iron by company with a good reputations of reliability and quality and lets not forget there is nothing actually wrong with the older system it's just a bit slower (lets ham up it up) at heating up and recovery. Or you can buy a knock off with no reputation and questionable quality. Lets be real, knock offs can go from being OK to being a fire hazard (I have been burned, literally by a no brand iron). To be open I have a Hakko 888D and FR-300 but I'm seriously looking at the Pace ADS200 but that will probably be another year of saving.

[@daishi5571]

As a follow up, after a while of using the Hakko I never felt the need to replace it. However recently someone stole it, so I decided to get the Pace and it is nice. It is faster at heating (far quicker than I can get ready) the recovery time is next to nonexistent, the tip distance it very short and very easy to control, the handle is so comfortable and the user interface is really easy (It's the one thing I really disliked about the Hakko but beyond the presets I had setup I didn't use it). But at a bit over $300 (including a few tips) it's expensive and my finished work hasn't changed (not a surprise) so I basically paid an extra $200 for a bit of extra comfort. I would recommend the Pace if you are buying new, but if all you are doing is upgrading its a bit steep.

[@NendoCrescendo]

I have an fx888D and it works just fine. I had a shitty $15 iron before and it’s a major upgrade. Besides the tips are nice, last long and are easy to replace.

[@GodLike-pe6kj]

I bought myself a used Metcal MX-500 (the old one without the display) for 150€, probably one of my best investments ever.

[@haheyourdead1187]

South Park “they took our jobs” hahhahaha

[@andrei54445]

Louis, for CD stations from JBC (cheapest ones) you can connect both type of handpieces t245 (standard size) and t210 (for microsoldering), like you did with fx951

[@snapko447]

Well if you are so fond of imperial system, Louis, why don't you refer to the hot air station nozzle as 0.1732283in? :P Imperial is outdated

[@timramich]

That old technology works just fine for me

[@GagLV]

As someone with not-so-steady hands, i love me some Metcal MX-500. It has the shortest tip i have seen and makes things very easy for me, while with the regular length tips, i could not solder nearly as good.

[@mariushmedias]

I bought a used Pace HW-50 (50w soldering station) for around 70$. It uses those tips with heating element integrated in them, you can still buy the tips for around 10$ each at reputable distributors. I also have an original Hakko 936 - the benefit of those Hakko 888 is that they're basically refreshes of Hakko 936 (while officially tips are different in practice you can still use tips for hakko 936 including cloned tips you can find on ebay at x dollars for 10pcs set)

[@petermopar]

You can use any ripoff station because integrated tips are great, even just a cheap "12-24v 75w mini adjustable handle," which I use with a solar panel for outdoor soldering.

[@CharlesJCliffe]

@Louis Rossmann -- for PACE tweezers the "old tech" TT-65 are the ones where the handle gets hot -- there's special grips (which they should have installed by default instead of selling separately) available to mitigate this. The MT-100 cartridge tip tweezers don't have that problem that I'm aware of.

[@Ivo--]

What's the cost of the tips and how often do you need to replace them?

[@tokenlectronix5223]

Would you get the $100 Chinese Hakko knock off or the $50 KSGER that can use hakko tips, can be modded to use JBC irons and has a better UI?

[@MattacksRC]

The hakko fk888 is a very high quality soldering station for a hobbyist. these fancy technology soldering stations may be better for professional work but I'm not certain the average Joe who does soldering here and there would benefit much from investing in that.

[@user-yk1cw8im4h]

Wrong. It’s not fancy technology at this point, it’s relevant vs irrelevant technology. You might as well use wood sticks to start a fire to cook your meal.

[@newgunguy4176]

Do the Pace stations have the heating element and sensor integrated with the ceramic?

[@PERILEX]

The ERSA i-Tool is pretty much the best of both worlds... Separate heating-element and Tip but with the Sensor placed very close to the tip. Kinda sad that they aren't more popular outside of Europe because they do make some quite nice tools. www.farnell.com/datasheets/57060.pdf

[@supreme84x]

What's the old and new technology called? How am I supposed to know if the soldering station I'm looking at has the new tech?

[@jasonh4534]

If you have a good iron, even the ceramic heater type with separate tips, you will not have slumping. Temp control is important, and most lower cost irons don't have the best. For most users, a variation of several degrees isn't likely going to cause a problem though. If you want tight temp control you have to spend more on the iron... I have used the Pace MBT and PRC 2000, they never slumped in temp when working lots of connections. Cheaper Hakkos are not at the same level. They are fine for consumer grade light use though. If I am working professionally, with soldering being a primary focus of my work, I am spending extra money on my iron, $350-400ish in the low end. Thats not set in stone but a benchmark, there may be good ones that are a bit less. A cheap knock off iron may heat up quick, but have poor temp control, that varies. If I even had someone turn up my iron to anything over 700*F I would kick them. You can do everything you need to do at 600*F max. My level of training... I can fix bullet holes in multilayer circuit boards. With the soldering standards of NASA use for space flight. There is no such thing as allowable tolerances in that standard. (Well at the time of my training, it may have changed in the past decade or so since my training) F vs C... Both are fine. If you are worried about the difference between 1*F and 1*C you're priorities are off. For soldering you don't need that fine of adjustment. You will usually make changes of several degrees at a time, so 10*F vs a change of 5*C I use F simply because I am used to it, and familiar with it. C would work fine if I was familiar with the scale. Pace makes good stuff, they are very expensive... If you use a nice Pace, even with the ceramic heater with separate tips, you would see the difference between them and similar Hakkos. Pace was the only soldering station I was allowed to use when working military aviation, as they were temp stable to within a single degree I believe, vs a Hakko which is something like 5-6*... Hot tweezers... Have you actually ever used the Pace version? You may not be understanding what they mean. Not saying that is the case. But they could mean constant 20min never stop use, but most would never do that. There are starts and stops. There is a lot to consider when selecting a proper iron, that many might not think about.

[@dashcamandy2242]

What many commenters are glossing over is that, in our consumer-driven economy, choosing non-American products that are better suited for the job at a better price point will either a) force US companies to redesign/reprice their products to match the demand of consumers, or b) drive them out of business for failing to provide a better product at the price point the consumer demands. Whether it be a car, a TV, a can opener, or a soldering station, better products at better prices is what the consumer desires. That, in turn, pushes all manufacturers to produce better products at better prices, which helps everyone in the long run.

[@orangesharpy]

I have a Weller 1010NA and I love that thing. Mine heats up really fast and always works great. Mind you I am not a professional but it far exceeds my usages.

[@DemonKingOFFICIAL]

8:30 Thats strange to see. I have the FX888D and it gets up to temp waaaaay faster than that. When you tell it to go up to 750 degrees (F) from nothing, it gets up there in like 3 seconds.

[@DemonKingOFFICIAL]

It’s not ultra quickly. It’s just faster than this.

[@kght222]

i use a soldering iron about once a month, my weller wlc100 does fine for me, and it is only 40 bucks.

[@flightographist]

Solid reasoning to backup solid skills, your strategic vision is admirable.

[@rafflesmaos]

I've used Pace, JBC, Metcal myself. All can get a bit warm after extended periods of use. Some Hakko irons even come with thicker 'antibacterial' rubber grips to counteract that, just like Pace has them for the TD-100, and JBC for the T245.

[@brizee993]

When you need to replace the tip, or buy additional tips, you also have to buy another heating element. Tips with the older system are cheaper to replace. PS I use a Goot station which uses the old tech, works fine for me.

[@swinde]

If the heating element is in the tip, how much does the tip cost? I have an old Weller and the Radio Shack Model that is actually a Hakko that uses their tips. Both have separate heaters. The size of the tip is the most important point. The more massive joints require the larger tips. The Radio Shack model was useless because it only had the tiny tip that could not transfer the heat to any joints unless the joint had little area to heat. Lucky for me the Hakko tips worked just fine.

[@goodun2974]

The most confusing thing about buying clones and knockoffs, especially if you're buying directly from Asia (or perhaps from ebay), is that you can't easily determine in advance which clone or knockoff is built the best, or most similarly to the known-quality name-brand unit. There are dozens upon dozens of "brands" of soldering stations sold online: Many of the different brands might actually come out of the same factory but we have no way of knowing this in advance, nor if they're built to the same specifications and quality, nor if one "brand" was commissioned by a seller that wants it for the absolute lowest wholesale price and therefore the lowest quality; nor do we have any way of knowing how interchangeable the parts might be from one clone to the next. My advice would be to purchase your Asian-made soldering-equipment clones from a distributor based in the same country as yourself, so that at least you don't have to attempt to communicate directly with someone in China or Asia if you have a problem with your newly purchased equipment.

[@GMCLabs]

We had some nice station when I went to school at LTI. However the tips were so fucked, I got pissed, left class and when to radio shack. I bought the smallest tip they had and literally jammed it into a $10 iron,I had to put aluminum foil around the threads to make it even fit. Anyway the class was for SMT certification and I built my project with that hacked shitty iron and my board passed a microscope inspection. Of course I was 18 back then and could actually see that shit without magnification, so I'd have a hard time doing that today. I guess my point is its better to have a shitty iron with a good tip, then a $1000 station with tips so fucked they can't even be tinned.

[@ThePr0Br0]

I spent less than 5 dollars for my soldering iron including shipping :(

[@Boz1211111]

I bought mine for 27 and remember thinking a lot should i buy it because i dont use it too much

[@StYxXx]

Mine was 20. But I assume we're not professionals. Mine wouldn't satisfy the needs of someone soldering the whole day. But for some amateurish work every few months cheap stuff should be enough. Also I'm not American so all this patriotism doesn't matter at all. The only consideration would be: is it safe? What about warranty?

[@_BangDroid_]

The only problem is, where do you find the *good* clones? There are at least just as many, if not more, bad clones out there. How do you know you're going to get a good one, even if you do find the listing? People who make cheap knockoffs have no incentive to make sure they're not going to burn your house down.

[@WutipongWongsakuldej]

I'm a bit concerned about the quality of the knock-off, counterfeit products. It might get the job done, but for how long? Well it can get you start up quicker (than the real deal, inferior products) and then you can get the real deal after you made enough money from those knock-off. Just to be aware that it might burn your shop down or something :)

[@23RaySan]

Louis, i cant get your argument with fahrenheit. Or do you say,oh this part has a little bigger footprint, maybe i should crank up the the temperature 1°F...1°C would be too much. I rather have a faster ramp up time when i press the button. Just think a minute about that ;-)

[@brainndamage]

Ray San 0.5°C resolution is very common (0.1 or even 0.01°C on professional meters) so the "fahrenheit has twice the points" argument has no sense to me either. You don't even need 1°C resolution on a soldering iron, for christs sake, 5°C is more than you'll ever need.

[@AttilaTheHun333333]

Jernej Jakob I don’t think Louis was talking about Fahrenheit being superior on soldering stations due to more steps, but in general. I could be wrong though. Also he seemed goofy about it...I don’t take these things too seriously anyway, it’s always a matter of taste and habits.

[@rossmanngroup]

At least with air conditioning and heating I prefer Fahrenheit because you have more steps. 32 to 212 gives you more steps than 0 to 100. People will say but you can use decimal points to which I respond, what consumer heating and cooling solutions give you decimal point level control?

[@truckerallikatuk]

Fahrenheit, like most old Imperial units is a human centric scale. Degrees science is more logical, and easier to work with, but less human relatable.

[@truckerallikatuk]

You take a little joke about "Degrees frankenstein" and "Degrees science" and leap to a rant... Obviously someone who should watch AvE a bit more and chill :) This is why I like Britain so much. We use metric for 95% of stuff, and hang on to old measures for a few others. My cheap soldering station measures in degrees science. My car measures in MPH, but my work ride is in KPH, and I have to convert in my head as our speed limits are in MPH. Oh, and by the way, a mile is roughly 1.6km. I could google the exact amount, but I can't be arsed. I use both measures each day. I just personally find that for a quick guess, imperial works better, but for precision, metric all the way.

[@freemansfreedom8595]

Or if you really don't want to support knockoffs, that mini iron with a laptop charger you showed before seems an awesome alternative. It seems that with irons is like phones, to have something more than capable to hold it's weight you don't need to throw extra cash and certainly makes the old ones a joke in comparison.

[@therealb888]

Paya Chinglish true it's bcoz of asswipe fanboys that companies still have these old styles in production. Of hakko only produced fx 951s instead of the shit ton of lower end $100 models they could bring the 951 price down to $150.

[@JazzTechie]

I’m definitely the same way with my tools, cookware, and cars. More about ergonomics and quality than any particular opinion of where it’s made.

[@cowwels]

Try TS100 please!!!!

[@felixstoger2800]

I have the JBC and it is possible to change the iron out. It has a DIN (or similar looking) connector at the back

[@kaptain_zero623]

I just want to know why Hakko sells the FX-950 analog station in every other marketing region EXCEPT for NA! They even show in the parts list, a 120v transformer, so it's not like they couldn't sell it here in NA.....

[@deadbluesky]

Thats not really accurate i have 4 soldering stations, the Aoyue int866, Hakko 951, Weller WN1010NA and a Weller WES51 and they kinda all work the same i do not have temperature drop i test them every month with a temperature probe to be sure every station woks well in my shop, tho the WES51 get really hot near the fingers !! Btw EEVblog do a nice comparison but for the WE1010NA he got the older iron who came too hot near fingers grip and got a bad grip and the element was too short, the las version of the iron is not the same at all the temperature is more precise, the grip is better and the heat near the fingers is gone !! I like the Hakko 951 the same as the others, maybe i should try a JBC to really know the difference and to be honest i will probably do...

[@MaximC]

In other other words: it's like trying to fix a water leakage by keeping removing the leaked water from the pavement, when the actual solution would be to fix the cracked pipe. "Cracked pipe" - being the current competition based "economic" system/"laws".

[@atomicskull6405]

Hakko FX951 is still a thermal iron though, for the absolute best look at the Metcal irons, these are what are used in aerospace. They use radio frequency energy to heat the tip instead of a thermal element. Temp control on the Metcals is by the curie point of the soldering tip, it absorbs the RF or not depending on the temperature of the tip, the temp control is based on physics rather than electronics. However you also have to change the tip to change the temperature as each tip has a fixed temp it operates at. High frequency AC induction irons aren't bad either, they typically have a hollow removable tip with a temperature probe that slides into the inside of the tip. Unlike thermal irons like the FX888 they use high frequency AC to heat the tip by induction. (there's a coil in the handset that heats the tip directly rather than using a thermal heater). The advantage of these is that you can find them in watt outputs equivalent to a soldering gun, but with temperature control. I use a Xytronic LF3200 for soldering 6mm gold plated DC connectors to 10 AWG stranded wire for example.

[@Rod_Knee]

The PACE rework station I use at work is excellent - but it cost NZ$3,500.

[@andmatic]

JBC - BT-2BWA is 10€ chaper then FX-951 in EU

[@SjondeJongen]

Whats the point of cutting the leads when the whole pcb is in a box anyway?