CNC Z drive install - Schaublin lathe Ep.36

[@Hilmi12]

Always found torque wrenches satisfying to use. That click gives a sense of having completed a task with finality

[@RotarySMP]

I agree. You put that well.

[@johanback5659]

Great video. As always. I'm baffled why you don't have more subscribers than you have: amusing narrative, good footage and editing, some dry humor and B-roll footage. And, of course, the good craftmanship. Top it off with profund anecdotes from the aero industry. It's all there. Love it and keep it up

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for your kind feedback. I guess the Schaublin makes for a more limited audience than the Mini lathe, which everyone knows.

[@carlhitchon1009]

@@RotarySMP Maybe, but the Schaublin is a thing to envy. It's just gorgeous.

[@RotarySMP]

@@carlhitchon1009 Thanks. I am really glad I took a risk on getting it sight unseen. It is in way better condition than I hoped.

[@ve7cbh]

@@RotarySMP And even if it needed more work than it does we would get to see some good content - like scraping etc etc!

[@gerrit2107]

To me the sound of a torque wrench means I'm trying to give it the care it deserves :)

[@RotarySMP]

You put that well.

[@AJMansfield1]

I really appreciate your recommendations for new up-and-coming machining channels to watch. There's just so much content out there across so many channels, and filtering it down to find the ones worth watching can be a real challenge.

[@RotarySMP]

Happy to help!

[@badjuju6563]

Thank you for the longer vid tonight, 10-15m isnt enough RotarySMP

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for the kind feedback. I dont like videos which are boring, and edit tightly rather than for length. Since I didnt do one last week, I had more material than expected this week.

[@mrsockyman]

Love the torque wrench click!, sometimes I make my own "kic-cik" noise when using non torque wrenches

[@RotarySMP]

Ave does that as well :)

[@stevendoesburg6555]

Those large smooth curved surfaces on that oil pump would be relatively expensive to machine from billet, so that may have been a factor too. These days we tend to shy away from castings for new design. Better material allowables, a shorter/simpler supply chain (months of lead time on castings is not uncommon), and the need to still machine the castings anyway tend to make machining from billet a more effective solution. Machining is also not as expensive as it used to be. Sometimes using castings can still make sense but not all that often anymore.

[@RotarySMP]

Good points. Especially in aviation where the volume is pretty low, longer machining time is probably not a big deal either.

[@MRCNC1967]

@ Steve D, we do quite a bit of "legacy" machining and many of the parts which used to be made from castings are now made from billet for a host of reasons, some of which you mention. The big one you hit on is cost - sometimes getting castings made cost more than just chunking out material then machining into "casting" especially on lower volume parts. Sometimes customers are stuck in the thinking they can "save" money by going the casting route but with modern machining techniques that's not always the case. We do have that one customer who supplies us with casting but they are poor quality and we end up doing a ton of prep work cleaning them up and qualifying surfaces before making the finished part, but in their head they think they are saving money and since they have so much $ invested in the molds they want to continue down that route.

[@RotarySMP]

@@MRCNC1967 Thanks for the feedback. You have an interesting insight into that transition.Are you starting to see 3D printed parts replacing castings in low volume complex parts as well? I doubt those engines I showed are sold in more than a few hundred a year.

[@stevendoesburg6555]

@@MRCNC1967 Interesting to see even legacy parts being changed over to billet! ​ @RotarySMP Fatigue life is still a challenge with certifying 3D printed metallic parts as far as I am aware.

[@groghunter7403]

Agreed. I've even seen some large airframe components, that might have been a frame and sheetmetal part, made entirely on a mill these days, because the part is lighter without all the fasteners. agmetalminer.com/mmwp/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Monolithic-Panel.jpg

[@Beakz_]

I didn't used to love the sound of torque wrenches until I used one of the newer digital ones. Struggled to not over torque things by accident because of how accustomed I'd become to that mechanical click and cah-chunk you feel in the handle. Can't get enough of that feeling now lol.

[@RotarySMP]

I watched a car mechanic use his torque wrench. Click, 15° further rotation, Ka Chunk. Not sure he understood the tool.

[@MuscleCarGarage2022]

That one shot pump could have self primed but got its feelings hurt from the 11mm hex comment. LOL Great video. Attention to detail is awesome and the torque clicks are relaxing.

[@RotarySMP]

LMAO! well put :)

[@Luke173]

awesome production, always nice to watch and learn. Ballscrew Clutch: The one I know make the clutch contact via the Ball. So it would be: Brass, Spring, Pin, Ball, Steelplate.. (or Brass, Pin, Spring, Ball, Steelplate.) Grüsse aus Winti

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for the info! Seem the consensus is the ball was added to increase the preload, and therefore the break out torque.

[@jster1963]

I LOVE the sound of a torque wrench! Excellent work Sir.....

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks Jasper.

[@tinkermouse-scottrussell3738]

I worked for a mining tool manufacturer for 44 years and am now retired, our drilling products are also sand-cast; but to meet our customer demands. We would billet mill certain parts quicker but more costly. Everyone wants it yesterday!!! Oh; and by the way, it’s where you last left it. Play safe from Elliot Lake, Ontario, Canada.

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks. I was sure somone will have seen where I put it. :)

[@steverobb5360]

Great to see it taking shape.

[@RotarySMP]

Yeah, nice how it comes together.

[@DudleyToolwright]

Wonderful work as always.

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for watching.

[@krisholt]

In Austria, the Puch moped factories used M7 with 11mm wrench size on the rear sprocket, someone else mentioned french cars having M7 bolts, that is correct, Peugeot/Citroên also uses M11 treads for the head bolts on their engines.

[@RotarySMP]

I'll get our #1 Fan Nico onto sorting that out right away :)

[@VorpalGun]

Lots of visible progress this time! Yay!

[@RotarySMP]

I was pretty happy about that as well.

[@testyourdesign233]

A 3 Jaw chuck will always be slightly off but you could have bored the hole with the clamp partially compressed to get it closer. I believe the flexures are allowing it to shift off center. Try measuring it with the clamp partially compressed to see how much it changes.

[@RotarySMP]

Yeah, good point, the flexture is off center.

[@jmtx.]

I love the clicking of torque wrenches in the morning!

[@RotarySMP]

.... sounds like...quality! :)

[@TheLastTater]

Another great video! I love following along and that you show all your obstacles and how you over come them

[@RotarySMP]

thanks for your kind feed back. This one really was two steps forward, one step back.

[@TheLastTater]

@@RotarySMP TOT mentioned you in his video one time on your last cnc conversion and I’ve been a huge fan since. By the way, I love the banana reference from CEE. 👍🏼

[@RotarySMP]

@@TheLastTater Yeah Tony was very helpful with the shout out. CEE makes brilliant content.

[@thomasegjoergensen]

I like that you show your mishaps, even the small ones like a missing bolt. It makes the project very "relateable" :-)

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks. Drove me nuts at the time, but I was glad I could rob one from the easier to reach place. Now I have to find the discipline to source a replacement M8x70 before I forget and that missing one becomes permanent :)

[@jesperlowinger]

Nice job really enjoyed this video!

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for the feedback.

[@Andrew_Fernie]

The only time I use my 11mm spanner is when I really need an 7/16"

[@RotarySMP]

LMAO :) Thanks.

[@er7124ter]

And 1/8 grease fitting also habe a 11mm hex

[@RotarySMP]

@@er7124ter Sounds like it is a 7/16 head :)

[@melgross]

When you use the collet, you have to put it back into the chuck the same way you made it. Mark the jaw and the collet and replace it that way. You also just need one slit if you make it a snug fit to the part going inside. And you do have to make it a snug fit, or you will have runout.

[@RotarySMP]

I marked the collet with a center punch against jaw one, and return it there. But that is a pretty worn chuck.

[@dlstanf2]

Appreciate the longer format. Many thanks on this series. As an aircraft engine mechanic I do like the use of globe when dealing with bearings. Fingerprints have a way of staining and can be detrimental.

[@RotarySMP]

Since I didn't get a vid done last week, there was more content than I expected. I dont edit for length. I just edit away until it doesnt bore me, and the length happens. :) I have no idea what additives are in Kluber bearing grease, but have no great need to absorb them into the blood stream :)

[@MRCNC1967]

Good to see the lathe coming along, this thing is truly well designed and goes together like a watch! As for the turning the timing pulleys that's exactly how we machined them when I worked for a shop many moons ago. The pulleys were flanged so the sleeve was split in half. With bored jaws we could repeat well within .005" on a production basis without any problems, which was plenty good for the customer's requirement. Curious, what supports the ball screw on the tailstock end? Bearing? Bronze bushing? Once you have the locknut tigtened down check for axial end play to make sure bearing are mounted and preloaded correctly. If they need to be replaced you should source sealed angular contact bearings. They are available here in the states so I would imagine they are available in your neck of the woods. We have used them when replacing open ball screw anchor bearings on our mills to prevent failure by contamination an so far so good. And the balls in the torque limiter clutch may have been added to increase spring tension and prevent nuisance slips? It's just conjecture but a possibility. Lastly, if room allows, consider making the motor shaft extender with a shoulder, top hat style to help retain the pulleys and add rigidity.

[@RotarySMP]

That is the tail stock end of the Z ballscrew, with the pair of AC bearings in O config. The head stock end has a single deep groove ball bearing, which was not gummed up, so i never removed it. Sealed AC bearings would be an improvement if I run the flood coolant system as generously as they did. Thanks for the feedback on your experience with pulley run out. Good point on the balls int he clutch, although there is not much evidence of anyone disassembling this machine before. I like your idea of a top hat shaft extension. Watch this space.

[@jasonbell5905]

Great stuff!! I’m presently rebuilding a EMCO Maximat super 11 , some things look so familiar, thanks for sharing 🤙🏼

[@RotarySMP]

Nice lathe. Emco made good products.

[@nightraidone9768]

For the collet idea I would do it pretty much the same but finish the ID at the end when it's just lightly clamped so you don't have to take it out afterwards

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks. Good tip.

[@geoffscott265]

Wahoo! nice to see the Z axis parts mounted after all this time of seeing a naked bed. Good job! I was very surprised that a pump at the bottom of an oil bath wouldn't self prime - Heather.

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks Heather. I was also surprised by that :) Seemed like this was one step forward, one backwards for the last two weeks.

[@BorisSpark]

Never had to use an eleven mm wrench before, untill I started working for Ferrari, the exhaust studs are m7 and have 11mm nuts.l

[@RotarySMP]

Sometimes I think designers do this just to annoy us :)

[@lauberdave]

Great video! I assume you're an aircraft mechanic, right? Love the view of LOWK.

[@RotarySMP]

That is LOWS - Salzburg, not Klagenfurt, but yeah, I am an aircraft mechanic by trade. Thanks for watching.

[@jdmorgan82]

Hey Mark, just wanted to give a quick thanks for finding and sharing the other channels. I can only watch reruns so many times.

[@RotarySMP]

Those three channels are all really good, especially how quickly they found their voices.

[@bostedtap8399]

Ref Z axis lead screw clutch, I can't see a logical reason to have the ball bearings in the spring stack, but it could be a case of increasing clutch slip point, for faster acceleration moves, or higher loads? Like the stop block on the lathe bed, not seen one on bed centre before. If the 3 jaw chuck doesn't repeat, then it's largely a waste of time in my humble opinion, I've used some very ropey chucks in my time, though now have a 2018 conversational CNC lathe ( XYZ Proturn 1630), love a new chuck. Brilliant engineering on that lathe, always a pleasure to witness. Thanks for sharing

[@RotarySMP]

That T slot bed on the Boley is a holdover from their earlier watch lathes. Normally it is a PITA as the swarf fills up the slot, but sometimes it come in handy. I need to get a new 3 Jaw for the Schaublin. The two I have for the Boley are both pretty shagged.

[@braspatta]

Congratulations on 20k subscribers!

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks a lot. It has been pretty slow steady growth all year. Hope that continues.

[@pommeswerfer6973]

For a one/tow part job like the pulleys the method you used is probably the fastest. But then a four-jaw-chuck is required. If you lacked one the other way would've been soft jaws in the three-jaw and the homemade collet. Since soft jaws guarantee an almost zero runout, the only limit is the care taken when manufacturing the homemade collet.

[@RotarySMP]

The shoulder on the back of the pulley meant I couldn't grip it directly in the 4J. I probably should not have slit that collet and just used the deformation of the alumium to grip.

[@azenginerd9498]

A most satisfying video! Lots of assembly - and associated clicks. Thanks for sharing.

[@RotarySMP]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@stefanhertweck]

Great to see that you wear proper safety shoes nowadays :) Two solutions to the same problem? Although, great minds think alike, two different brains seldom seem to work the same way ... Looking forward to see next weeks episode/progress. Good stuff.

[@RotarySMP]

thanks for commenting.

[@philhermetic]

I think the three balls may have been added to beef up the clutch loading, or maybe they fit the detents better than the plungers do and actually were fitted below the plungers? It of course means stripping it again to have a look................................ Phil

[@RotarySMP]

They were definitely not in the detents. I checked the disassembly videos. I think you are right that they were to beef up the break out force.

[@joeldriver381]

The clicking of a torque wrench is very satisfying! Always makes me feel like I know what I am doing. LOL

[@RotarySMP]

You got that right!

[@sazafrass]

19:53 😂 my impression of the scale was way off. Thought that set took up an entire wall and you were a giant for a second.

[@RotarySMP]

LMAO! :) Thanks.

[@michaelbrocato7535]

Yes I agree the sound of a torque wrench gives me that feeling of completion....great progress i can't wait to see next week's video...again thanks for sharing this journey

[@RotarySMP]

You and me both!

[@LesNewell]

Watching your rebuild that lube pump reminded me of when I rebuilt the pump on my Colchester Triumph 2000 CNC. I found the pump had never been fitted with it's inlet check valve. Well, that explained the bed wear :-( It is electrically driven and lives under a little lift off cover with the oil reservoir. I think the previous owner(s) probably never even knew it was supposed to have a lube pump.

[@RotarySMP]

Oh that sounds bad. My Boley has no central lube system, and the unhardened bed is also heavily worn. Given the price of that Colchester new, you would have expected some one to read the manual.

[@LesNewell]

@@RotarySMP Maybe the original owner did know about the pump but didn't notice the oil level was never dropping. I know the factory I got it from would not have bothered checking the oil. They would have waited for the control to start screaming at them about low oil. Maintenance wasn't one of their strong suits.

[@RotarySMP]

@@LesNewell Good point. It is not like the way oil level drops fast.

[@chrisarmstrong8198]

Maybe the balls in the clutch just increase the spring tension so that the clutch slips at a higher torque.

[@RotarySMP]

Could be. I see no evidence that these have been disassembled before, so they would be like that from the factory.

[@richardbradley961]

THANK YOU , AND WELL DONE. REGARDS RICHARD.

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for watching Richard.

[@nathaniellangston5130]

I desperately need a Schaublin... They seem to be really uncommon where I live in US. Great video!! Looking forward to next week!!

[@RotarySMP]

You read about them ocassionally in Practical machinist, but I am sure they were never common. Still the US has so many excellent alternatives like the Monarch 10EE or Hardinge.

[@poprawa]

11mm wrenches are fine for hydraulics fittings, as they are soft and have a big hole in them, with tendency to be serviced while rusted. 5mm (most popular) car brake lines are about randomly fit for 10 and 11mm wrench :>

[@RotarySMP]

So it is just 10mm, loose tolerance :)

[@poprawa]

@@RotarySMP I meant, that roughly the 50/50 chance to find all the M10 5mm line fittings in any car to be for 11mm wrench or all for 10mm. 9mm wrench is another case, it is never used until custom part requires it and every tool kit that comes with 9mm flat wrench is wasting money

[@bastianhoffman8489]

nice video but with sliding joints there is a functional clearance of 0.015 0.02mm is necessary for safe operation so that the oil film can build up safely, otherwise there is a risk of seizing,The ball screw drives are better lubricated with long-term grease (Like oks 422.... or equivalent ) at slow speeds, this also has the advantage that impurities are better transported away and lubrication is ensured for longer time

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks. Good point. I just rechecked the manual, it says to apply grease yearly with a brush to the ball screw.

[@johnmccanntruth]

Great job and progress this week. Keep that up and it will be chip making time soon.

[@RotarySMP]

I hope so.

[@iNerdier]

Nice to see so much progress! You’ve inspired me to get over my fear and buy a chunk of aluminium to try making a part on a lathe for the first time next week…

[@RotarySMP]

Go for it! Thanks for the kind feedback.

[@davidcolwill860]

Good to see things progressing. It would be great if you could send me some of your enthusiasm (and some patience if you can spare it) as I am in a similar position with my lathe and it is not going as quickly!

[@RotarySMP]

Try making videos nearly every week... worked for me :)

[@taunusmechanics]

I think the manual calls for ISO 68 way oil, but i don't think the 220 will cause any problems as long as it doesn't get to cold in your Shop.

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for checking that. On the Maho I have a manual calling for 220, and a sticker on the tank for 68. I decided on 220, as my machines sit around a lot, and this stuff doesnt flow off the ways as fast.

[@MatthewPettengell]

Thanks for highlighting other channels. Always good to find new content. Question about those bellows, are they noisy when expanding and contracting?

[@RotarySMP]

Not that I noticed. But I wasn't really paying attention for that.

[@homeclubber9815]

Balls in the clutch mechanism might have been added to increase the slip torque?

[@RotarySMP]

Could be. DoAll must have seen some limitation of this design, as their other models dont have them.

[@surmetall5596]

oh you were in Salzburg, too bad I didn't know that. :p

[@RotarySMP]

Only briefly, and it was a busy day. Sorry.

[@surmetall5596]

@@RotarySMP I see Untersberg, i hit the like button

[@RotarySMP]

@@surmetall5596 It is a very pretty view from that hangar!

[@hinz1]

What about gluing thin turcite on the X-direction gibs? Then you could preload these gibs, since turcite is slightly squishy and works with preload just fine, without galling.

[@RotarySMP]

I dont think you can preload turcite any differently than a cast iron gib. Given the large suffice area, I think even with the much lower young modulus, the turcite will not significantly deform. There will still be the oil in between.

[@JMassengill]

For as much good information you can find in an IPB (illustrated parts breakdown) there are also many times it just lacks that little bit of exact information one might need. Great video

[@RotarySMP]

True. I am glad I have any manuals for this 40 year old machine.

[@HansFormerlyTraffer]

I was thinking about making a gib adjusting system for my mini-lathe that would use a shaft with cams that would be adjustable against the gib but after seeing the expanding rod type of setup in that schaublin it looks like an easier solution. (I had to put away my machine shop consisting of two small carts with a lathe some other small stuff). I need to find a place to use it now. BALL INSIDE PLUNGER...My guess is that because it is designed to not be used often at all, the ball inside the plunger would facilitate easy movement even after not having flexed in a long time.

[@RotarySMP]

I also suspect it was done that way to ensure a good seat for the spring.

[@wildin13]

I'm curious, are there any plans to add control buttons to the carriage for simple functions like manual jogging and E-stop?

[@RotarySMP]

I want to add two encoder jog wheels to do "manual" axis movement. Not sure yet where or how I mount that. I'll get the machine running, then do the control panel, and then the pendent module.

[@wildin13]

@@RotarySMP very nice! Like how its coming on so far

[@RotarySMP]

@@wildin13 Me too. Thanks.

[@seancollins9745]

I make soft jaws, for concentricity sensitive parts on a 3 jaw spiral chuck

[@RotarySMP]

Because of the flange on the back of the pulley, a soft jaw would have needed a groove as well.

[@NskLabs]

18:00 Since Your spindle is threaded, You could make an adaptor plate for the 3 jaw chuck with an indexer shoulder loose about 0,5 mm or so. When clamping, loosen the nuts on the plate a bit and tap with a hammer the chuck and the part into tolerance, thighten the nuts on the adaptor plate, machine the part, feel like a champ.

[@RotarySMP]

True, but in this case, I also needed that collet to clear the flange on the back of the pulley, so I couldnt clamp it directly in jaws.

[@NskLabs]

@@RotarySMP Of course, it would also be quite a project, which would suppose to suite future tasks as well. Other than that,... You cold consider a collet chuck perhaps.

[@helmutzollner5496]

nice work.

[@RotarySMP]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

Good job. It's starting to look like the real thing :-) PS: I also love the clicks in torque wrenches - somehow, very satisfying :-)

[@RotarySMP]

I love they way this machine goes together. No violence required :) One could do a whole relaxation video ASMR for the mechanically inclined :)

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

@@RotarySMP LOL. In the end it may even be better than it was before. New tech should add to it.

[@RotarySMP]

@@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT I guess for it to really be as good or better, the bed would need a touch up with a perfect grinder, to take out that 11µm wear. But the interface will be much nicer, that is for sure.

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

@@RotarySMP Yep. I agree about the bed, but I guess the advantages of a more powerful control software will outweigh the minimal wear in the bed. Maybe it's just me, but it seems that 11µm will not be a big deal for most parts (not even sure how much it will reflect in the final part).

[@RotarySMP]

@@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT I consider that minimal wear. I am not going to do anything about it.

[@mbox314]

If it were up to me I would make the ball bearing at the end of the plunger. McMaster sells ballbearing detents that I love using in projects. The ball is super hard and low friction, it should be perfect for rolling in and out of detents.

[@RotarySMP]

This should never leave the detent, as it is only an overload clutch if you crash, which I am hoping is behind me now (Famous last words.)

[@julias-shed]

Getting close. 😀 I think final boring to size after slitting might have worked better. I wonder how accurate the belts are?

[@RotarySMP]

Or just clamping without the flextures. It was only alu, so it should have deformed easily enough to grip for that light cutting load.

[@robertsteinwandel6658]

Its inspiring for my own lathe project to be able to see a working lathe thats so incredibly well built and designed, that’s awesome Right now I don’t plan to have manual hand wheels for my lathe, all cnc and using a manual pulse generator wheel for anything manual I do. Is there a benefit to the fully mechanical system? Im hoping that with microstepping my steppers will have more than enough resolution for my needs but maybe a fully analog system would be better in some cases-love to hear your thoughts Thanks again and wonderful vid as always!

[@RotarySMP]

Hi Robert, Dont bother doing direct manual control, that would just complicate things. As you say, using job encoders is the way to go. While i love fully manual lathes for the speed you can make quick rough parts, jog encoders both axis will get you 90% of the benefit, you just lack the tactile feedback,

[@robertsteinwandel6658]

RotarySMP thats great to hear. I was assuming that was the case but always good to know Im not missing something big hahaha

[@roadiesgarage3816]

@17.11 nice save man

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks :)

[@davers1610]

another great video thanks ! For the collet could you have cut a larger shallow bore on the front and clamped a thin hollow bar to preload the flexture then bored the main bore through it? Like chuck jaw grinding. Also, is the pump for manual use? it occurs you could write a macro where after a set number of lines or time the axis moves all the way left and presses the pump on a feature to automatically oil the ways. Cant wait for the next video :D

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for the kind feedback. Yeah it is manual. Given that this machine in now in CNC retirement in my basement, and I am sure to pump oil through every time I use it, I dont think it needs such a macro. That could also be dangerous. Having the machine traverse full RH unmotivated is nearly guaranteed to cause a tail stock collision at least.

[@davers1610]

@@RotarySMP good point. Hadnt even considered the tailstock. I have a habit of overcomplicating things to account for my forgetfulness. Cant wait to see it running.

[@HM-Projects]

Great progress! love that one shot way oiler, I wish my crappy lathe had that feature.

[@RotarySMP]

It is a really nice feature, especially without needing a bunch of external oil lines.

[@patrickgrochowy]

Maybe the balls of the clutch were added by a previous owner to make the clutch stronger? Maybe because the springs had set over time or something like that?

[@RotarySMP]

Possible, but there is no evidence of anyone else ever having disassembled anything on this lathe.

[@TrPrecisionMachining]

very good job RotarySMP..thanks for your time

[@RotarySMP]

My pleasure! Thanks for watching and feeding the algorythm with comments each time.

[@than_vg]

I'd be impressed (and kind of jealous) if your make-shift collet sat exactly at the same position after taking it off.... If it were me, I'd try to finish all holes and slits before hand (after roughing of course) and then take a final light pass after rechucking to ensure all is right. But that is a part that can't go in without taking the fixture out of the chuck, right? In this case, I'd use soft jaws. If one doesn't have soft jaws, one can improvise by securing aluminium rings on each of the chuck jaws (a bolt for each is enough) and then used them as soft jaws! Keep up the nice vids!

[@RotarySMP]

Because of the flange at the back of the pulley, soft jaws would not work, or at least would have needed to be be relieved at the back. I think chuck wear was also a problem there.

[@thanos_vgenis]

@@RotarySMP soft jaws can take whatever form you like, of course relieving should take place. Or, if you used the alu ring clamped on the hard jaws, they are, by definition, relieved! Chuck wear is exactly what you are trying to eliminate with soft jaws, so not really a problem.

[@donsundberg5730]

Looking good!

[@RotarySMP]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@motari6249]

Awesome work as always ❤👍. Ps love the torque wrench sounds.

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks again!

[@misterbreakit2006]

Thank you, @RotarySMP, for my Sunday morning fix. I noticed your comments on way oil. Which one would you recommend for a mini lathe with dovetail ways? Speaking of a satisfying torque wrench click, AvE adds it in even if he's not actually using a torque wrench. Even his crowbars sometimes click :)

[@RotarySMP]

I use 220 weight oil for all my machines. It is thick like honey, but since they are not used much, figure it wont run off as fast. Ave has some pretty cool features in his videos.

[@ikbendusan]

18:09 do you tighten the chuck with all 3 key holes? adam booth noted when he got his 6-jaw chuck that the runout only really repeats when you tighten all of them. you may also need to use a torque wrench to make sure it's tightened the same amount _and_ do it in the same order. so many variables. it also may deform differently because you put the holes in it _after_ you bored out the centre; i imagine the bore should be the last feature to be machined

[@RotarySMP]

Good points. This works fine in the 4 Jaw, but it would be handy to have a technique to make it work int he 3 jaw.

[@КонстантинКучер-щ5м]

@@RotarySMP it depends on 3-jaw chuck state, but you really need to tighten it at the same hole to get repetable grip. No need for using all 3 holes, just test it all with known round part (endmill shank etc) and use better for precise grip. Precision chucks have only one drive hole. For making this temporary collet, you should turn OD first, don't trust your stock roundness. You can get better result of boring if you use teeth surface for trueing in 4-jaw, maybe previous bore was off-center.

[@RotarySMP]

@@КонстантинКучер-щ5м Good points. That is a pretty worn out 3J chuck.

[@MF175mp]

You need to mark the rotational position of the diy collet in relation to the 3 jaw and put it back the same way also. Other than that, always use the same pinion to tighten

[@RotarySMP]

I did mark it, and return it to the same place. That was the center punch mark I did next to jaw #1. But that is a pretty worn 3J, and I didnt attempt to tighten with the same pinion.

[@MF175mp]

@@RotarySMP that alone could throw it off that much. It's about the play in the plain bearing between the scroll and the chuck body and to which side that's pulled by the pinion. If you know what I mean.

[@RotarySMP]

@@MF175mp I am glad that it worked as well as it did with the 4J :)

[@ViniciusMiguel1988]

Very exciting, how the queue for part orders is looking like?

[@RotarySMP]

Long wait for parts. Very long wait. :)

[@stefanpariyski3709]

The bearings do have a direction, if the drawing at 6:09 is correct! The drawing depicts angular contact ball bearings. So you probably installed them wrong at 9:07.

[@RotarySMP]

I didn't say that very clearly, sorry. I know they are AC bearings, in O config. Normally precision beaings sold as matched pairs have a V engraved on them which should be aligned between the two bearings to ensure minimal run out. This pair doesn't have those markings.

[@steveggca]

@@RotarySMPModern AC bearing are available as U or universal fit. they do not need to be matched at the factory and are sold in indidividual boxes, you buy the number that you need. the V etched across the bearing set is of course there to arrange them in the order determined by the factory. these days only the most precise of spindles need factory matched sets

[@RotarySMP]

@@steveggca These are P5 so nothing special, I got confused as the ISO classes have a lower number with increasing precision.

[@steveggca]

@@RotarySMP an interesting aside to this, in high speed, high volume production ,thermal expansion of the ballscrew becomes a consideration. to mitigate this, one end of the ballscrew is axially fixed with a pair of angular contact bearing and the other end is supported with first a common ball bearing and then a single AC bearing . The ballscrew is ground with a thread pitch that is "too short". when the ballscrew is installed it is stretched by a specified length to make the pitch correct. the screw can now heat up and the position is not affected because it is buried in the stretch. If that is not enough the ballscrew is made hollow and oil at a specific temperature is pumped through, although not commanly used

[@RotarySMP]

@@steveggca I got a tour of the TU Vienna's machine shop, and they had some of those extreme precision machines. I guess you have to run them up to temp before you even start making on spec parts in that µm tolerance field.

[@johannglaser]

One thing (among others) I still don't understand about all kinds of CNC machines: Aren't these belts elastic? Wouldn't that lead to some backlash? How much backlash is it, and/or, what is important to minimize it?

[@RotarySMP]

In engineering, everything is elastic. Even diamond. The back lash of those belt drives is pretty low, less than gears for sure.

[@johannglaser]

@@RotarySMP Sure, everything is made of rubber. Do you think the backlash is

[@RotarySMP]

@@johannglaser I will need to have the motor running to check that.

[@steveggca]

production machines like more seiki use timing belts all the time on lathe turrents (x-axis) where they need compactness. (the servo motor sits parallel to and beside the ballscrew) i had never seen that the control treats an axis with belts any different then when a servo motor directly connected to the ball screw. so it would appear that with pullies and belts designed specifically for the task, backlash and stretch are not a concern . I have however replaced belts that have died of old age either from breaking in half or by the teeth sheering off. It makes quite a loud bang when the belt fails and the turret falls to the bottom. been there, heard it from half way across a large factory, and then had to fix it.

[@RotarySMP]

@@steveggca The belt will only do the move, with some form of mechanical indexing for the precise location right? On the Schaublin there is a Hirth coupling under the tool changer. The pneumatics lift and turn it, but the coupling provides the precise repeatablity, and the backlash free location. edit: Oh, re-reading it, you are talking about a ballscrew positioning axis, and not tool changer indexing.

[@crabmansteve6844]

The click on your torque wrench gives a very satisfying, authoritative click. Mine makes a flimsy sounding, tin-ny click. :(

[@RotarySMP]

:) It is a nice one.

[@MikelNaUsaCom]

was there a link I missed to that other YT channel you were referencing?

[@RotarySMP]

Did it not pop up at the top of the screen? kzbin.info/door/yPFi-4-N5Y_XPI9UTDEFMA

[@624Dudley]

Referring to that lovely Schaublin, using a phrase borrowed from Pilatus: relentlessly Swiss. 🇨🇭Terrific update!

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks. I am also really happy how nicely everything fits together.

[@roadiesgarage3816]

Is the runout in the teeth faces the same as the id and od of the shaft barrel you were measuring? They could be out of concentricity.

[@RotarySMP]

Good point. Those teeth tops are probably not even relevant in operation.

[@ericmorriscompany9648]

On the oil pump casting vs the fuel delivery block CNC part my thoughts are that the oil pump may be a standard part across several different engines while the fuel delivery part may have multiple variants each with much smaller quantity required. So it’s actually less expensive and less labor intensive to just CNC from billet. I have a 600 ton forging press in house. But more and more often I choose not to forge but just CNC from billet. No need to make and heat treat a die. No trim die. No heating the dies. No heating billet. Similar amounts of swarf generated. I also have lost wax casting in house. But that’s a last resort. Only if there is some odd shape with undercuts that cannot be formed without resorting to a true 5 axis mill.

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for the feedback. You might be right that the lube unit, being simpler, and needing less model specific flows is made in greater volume. Wow, in house forging and investment casting. That is a cool shop you have there.

[@ericmorriscompany9648]

@@RotarySMP I think I have a few videos up about hot forging. Production quality severely lacking but it’s always fun to watch open flames and hot things getting squished.

[@jimsvideos7201]

I wonder if a time will come that machining is cheap enough, and labour for casting expensive enough, that machining anything like the FCU will be more economical.

[@RotarySMP]

Casting also has some advantage in geometry too, like making those curved tubes of that oil pump. But for low volume parts, 3D printing metallic parts is also eating into castings dominance.

[@AutoBeta2T]

Brilliant 😊

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks for the kind feedback.

[@chrisrhodes5464]

How much run out was there before you done any turning your clamping device could be good and true to start with

[@RotarySMP]

I should have put a clock on that pulley on the original DC motor. Never thought of that.

[@graealex]

We using inches to measure runout in Australia now?

[@RotarySMP]

Hi Alexander. I am not Australian :0 My Dad gave me this Verdict DTI which measures in 1/10000". It is such a nice instrument, that it is my first choice. NZ went metric in 1970, so I learned that at school, but my Dad still thought and spoke in imperial, and then I did an aircraft mechanic apprenticeship, and most aircraft are still imperial, so I am comfortable in both .

[@graealex]

@@RotarySMP So you're actually from NZ?

[@RotarySMP]

@@graealex You got it :)

[@joshstapley21]

Did you use the same key hole in your chuck to fix the custom collet the second time? There can be some variation on the runout based on which hole/holes you tighten with and by using the same hole you can get better repeatability. It’s pretty noticeable with my import chuck, though yours is probably better made, so that may have not caused the runout problem.

[@RotarySMP]

That is why I put the center punch pop in the collet, so I could line it back up with jaw 1. But that chuck is pretty worn out.

[@joshstapley21]

Sorry, I'm probably not explaining it super well. You oriented the part in the chuck correctly, but when you tighten the chuck itself using the same pinion (wrench hole) to both tighten the initial part and then retighten it when you put the part in again you get better repeatability. I learned about this from Robin Renzetti on the home shop machinist podcast: thecogwheel.net/2017/09/02/home-shop-machinists-podcast-episode-10-practitioner-of-the-mechanical-arts/ He talks about it at 1:40:00 (chuck jaw repeatability). I once was running multiple parts and, if I used the same pinion/wrench hole, I could repeat within a thou on my second operation, but if I accidentally used a different pinion it could throw the part off by 3-4 thou.

[@RotarySMP]

@@joshstapley21 Thanks for that link. That really is a worn chuck, so it was probably never doing to work with that one.

[@garethjones5150]

I've seen many different overload clutches like that and they've always had the ball sitting directly in the detent. Is the conical end of the plunger a red herring, giving the impression that it should locate in the detent? BTW - kudos for the channel/vids/machines - really great and one of my absolute favourites

[@RotarySMP]

When I disassembled it, both X and Y clutches had the cone in the detent and the ball inside. I dont see any evidence of anyone else having pulled this machine apart. It seems original. Thanks for the kind feedback.

[@eviethekiwi7178]

personally, to make that custom collet holder work i would just try to get a more precise match between the OD of the pulley teeth and the ID of the collet. difficult to measure those teeth of course, they also might be a bit worn. but with pulleys, i honestly think any less than 0.05mm or so runout is more than acceptable, altough you're doing things that spin a lot faster

[@RotarySMP]

In hind sight, I should have tried the lost collet without the flexture features. It was only aluminium, so just the deformation of the chuck jaws would probably have been enough to grip the pulley.

[@okatbikes4917]

Hello from Salzburg! That looks like the view from the private hire hangar, no? Have you been to Hangar 7?

[@RotarySMP]

Yeah, that is a really nice view from the hangar there. I couldnt resist shooting a clip. :)

[@mgojich]

17:08 saw that coming. I broke my ring finger doing that.

[@RotarySMP]

I put those boards under it to make sure it couldnt fall more than a couple of cm. That is a pretty freak accident. When they happen, they happen fast.

[@beachboardfan9544]

Where do you get those ball screw covers you installed at the end?

[@RotarySMP]

I have no idea sorry. They came with the machine. Edit: I just googles "Spring screw covers" that works.

[@physicsguybrian]

Seems to me the assumption that the ID of the flange part was concentric could have been incorrect. It could easily have been out by what you measured due to use and flexure. Your concentric collet was probably just fine!

[@RotarySMP]

I should have mounted the pulley on the original motor shaft and checked it's flank runout before starting. Didn't think of that.

[@zJericho101z]

Awesome!

[@RotarySMP]

Thanks. Nicely made machine.

[@MakarovFox]

uff that slip in the dril thank God that dint broke anything

[@RotarySMP]

One nice think about a low power (330W) belt drive drill is you normally get belt slipage rather than destruction.

[@MakarovFox]

@@RotarySMP yeah that is cool and a safe feature kinda

[@Gin-toki]

The differences in design descisions could also be as simple as it were made by two different design teams. Perhaps even outsourced to a third party company.

[@RotarySMP]

They are. The FMU was a Hamilton unit. I didn't check the vendor of the lube unit. The organisational inertia of years of making successful parts one way is a good point.

[@glennstasse5698]

11mm wrenches will be in good shape compared to the 10mm so no rounding over important bolt. I’m sure that’s the reason they chose that size…:-)

[@RotarySMP]

Yeah, that will be it :)

[@alan-sk7ky]

Nope, its a mind set of European engineers, the desired torque spec (min) requires an m7 thread which 'must' have an 11mm hex see? Couldn't just step up to m8 and 12mm hex oh no. So you end up with the whole bloody tool kit including the 9, 11, 15, 16, 18, 20, 22, 23, 25 mm spanners because once a month mr anal engineer has done it again... Japanese practise tries to standardise on 8,10,12, (rare 13mm usually at the other end of a 12mm) 14,17,19,21,24 for which I am grateful ;-)

[@RotarySMP]

@@alan-sk7ky I really like machines where everything is done with one or two sizes. The Schaublin is pretty good with most fasteners M8, and a few M6.

[@RambozoClown]

Never seen a tapped hole in a key before. I'm sure I will be using that next time I make up a key for something.

[@RotarySMP]

I hadn't either, but then the ISO40 shank for the shell mill arrived with a threaded hole in it as well. New standard. Big improvement.

[@gettuff2]

Hi there. Just found your channel. What city are you in. You sound like a Kiwi. I'm in Chch. Cheers

[@RotarySMP]

Welcome. I am a Kiwi, but live in Vienna.