Rowan Williams & Paul Kingsnorth: Conversion, Culture, and the Cross

The Big Conversation - Episode 2 | Season 4
Rowan Williams, former Archbishop of Canterbury engages with author Paul Kingsnorth on his adult conversion to Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
Paul and Rowan talk about the spiritual longings that still exist under the surface of secular culture and whether ancient forms of Christianity may provide answers to today’s generation.
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Rowan Williams: rowanwilliams.a...
Paul Kingsnorth: www.paulkingsn...
Paul's article about coming to faith: www.firstthing...
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[@PremierUnbelievable]

We hope you enjoy the show! For the bonus ebook, and to keep updated on the latest episodes, sign up to our newsletter at: www.thebigconversation.show/

[@jonnyk-uk662]

*Guys you need to IMMEDIATELY check your latest two uploads they're from your unlisted channel* ?

[@pauline5260]

Paul's conversion testimony first shocked me when I heard it last year, then set me on a journey of investigation. I renewed my Christian faith and joined the Church in April this year. Thankyou Paul.

[@umeahalla]

Many years!

[@jamessheffield4173]

The Jesus prayer played a role in my conversion, but as a Wesener, I stayed tn the Episcopal Church. Pax Christi

[@bellingdog]

​@jamessheffield4173 there is a Western Rite Orthodox Church. For me, I stayed in the Byzantine Rite, but I love the Sarum Rite which is practiced in the Western Rite

[@upyr1922]

🙏⭐️so glad I came across this!!! I've been a practicing Wiccan, omnist and everything in between but lately my heart has been calling to Jesus. Thank you for posting because now I don't feel alone

[@willtoms7209]

Lovely, Meshell! Jesus is not a religious storybook character, He really is alive and with you. He says that when we look for Him he will be found.

[@rowlandharryweston6037]

Welcome to the family

[@lufhopespeacefully2037]

Why does the Trinity not appear in the Bible?

[@newdawnrising8110]

Awesome share. Thank you for the comment. I too found my home in the Eastern Orthodox Church after many years of serious searching. The ancient church is amazing to me and they have a deep understanding and practice to help us all grow closer in our conscious contact with Spirit. B

[@upyr1922]

@newdawnrising8110 oh yes!!! I too have turned to Eastern Orthodoxy🙏☦️

[@pauloaugustoalvesdeoliveir4112]

I was a convinced Atheist for 12 years. However, 2 years ago I started to think seriously about God (something that normally Atheists do not do). Since then I have returned to my Lord Jesus Christ and the holy mother Catholic Church.

[@ml-ws5bz]

An atheist is looking for God like a thief is looking for the police.

[@clarekuehn4372]

Welcome home, Paulo. ❤ Gloria in excelsis Deo and Ave Maria But beware: St. Padre Pio and Pius XII commissioned Father Luigi Villa and others to expose ecclesiastical Freemasons and modernists who infiltrated the Church. Read Villa's book, "Paul VI Beatified?" That way, you will not be fooled by the direction of the Novus Ordo. God bless. I hope you will join a rosary crusade, locally. ❤

[@martinploughboy988]

God is both mother & father to the believer, the Church is not a mother, it is the congregation of believers with no hierarchy. All believers have direct access to Christ, no man should stand between them.

[@onionbelly_]

​@@ml-ws5bz Not to mention that you botched the original quote, making false analogies like that is low even for a Christian.

[@amalrockey420]

Amen❤️🙏

[@newdawnrising8110]

Awesome discussion that so many ppl need to hear. Ppl here in the west just have no idea about the depth of understanding and practices in the Eastern church.

[@Bonddeeee]

Rowan's remarks about orthodoxy and integration of thinking and worship were mind blowing carharthis for me. Praise Jesus and the word that became flesh.

[@soniavadnjal7553]

What a great conversation! Am especially happy for Mr Kingsnorth. His description of the sense of being 'hunted" by Christ reminded me of Francis Thompson's poem, The Hound of Heaven.

[@1WorldStory]

What a great conversation with two honest, humble, careful thinkers. Their two paths, in their different ways, are helping so many people to converge on a common truth they both realize: God is our life.

[@AdamPalatine]

Rich, beautiful, worshipful, approachable. Bravo. This was an amazing conversation. Thanks for letting all of us listen in to it!

[@adawnsevolution]

"I was searching for a name for the divine." I was one that journey to out of my atheism and I settled on "Ancient of Days" because I was looking for the divine source of wisdom. The name has now morphed into "Redeemer" because every misstep I made the Divine has created something more beautiful and stronger than I could have imagined.

[@BitOHoney276]

That is the rock solid truth of Romans 8:28. ❤

[@jackforeman2742]

Jonathan Pageau would’ve had some good insights on this wonderful discussion. These talks are exactly what we need.

[@piretkivi3218]

Yes! Jonathan Pageau and Paul Kingsnorth = something unbelievably wonderful. They have two conversations on KZbin. I am impatiently waiting for the third, fourth and fifth one.

[@conornagle9528]

Thank you for conversations like this. As a Catholic baptised as a baby in Canada, and completing my Sacraments (as a 41 year old man) currently after living in Ireland for 7 years now, there is a deep connection to the land, history, and participation in Mass and the Christian tradition that remains ineffible. "O' Christ, this is what you have done for us, in a crumb of bread the entire Mystery is" - Patrick Kavanagh.

[@johnny.musician]

I can so identify with Paul! His description of his spiritual growth is very similar to mine and it took me until my mid 50s to find Jesus, or allow him in, whichever is the best way to articulate that. Cheers Justin and cheering you on.

[@feeble_stirrings]

What a great conversation! Indeed, we need Saints! "That the world is hungry is beyond doubt, but the world is not hungry for a new and winning argument. The world hungers for God whether it knows this or not. The proper Christian answer to the hunger of the world is to be found only in the manifestation of God. Thus the challenge of a modern atheist should not be met with an anxious rejoinder from our panoply of arguments but with the urgency of prayer that we might ourselves might become an answer through the reality of the presence of God in our lives." - Fr Stephen Freemen

[@MoreChrist]

A great combination. Dr Williams wrote his dissertation on Vladimir Lossky, who had a seminal impact on my own conversion to the Christian faith. God bless these gents.

[@lufhopespeacefully2037]

why trinity doesn`t wrote in bible

[@FirstnameLastname-py3bc]

@@lufhopespeacefully2037 yes it's wrote in the bible multiple times

[@martinploughboy988]

Jesus seems to say that only God has any impact on salvation: All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. (John 6:37 [ESV2011])

[@avamina3973]

Coming home is a good description of the feeling that you have when you embrace the life in the orthodox Church, which is the mystical Body of Christ. But after a while you realize that you are now assigned to a fore post amidst a raging battle and that home is yet to be reached. A whole new life unfolds in which you are pushed to the limits of your existence. And what you learn is that There is no Resurrection without Golgotha!

[@elliotlee6425]

God... this is so healing... Rowan Williams the closest thing to a walking embodiment of holiness that I know of. From his reason for attraction to EO ("Worshipping is a way of thinking; thinking is a way of worshipping") to his reframing of Christian heresy to bestow on them intelligence, conviction, and humanity. Really the only thing profoundly wrong with the EO church is that we don't have RW as our pope (I kid, I kid). Really, deeply appreciated this video.

[@foodforthought8308]

Brilliant man but sadly has seriously heretical views on sexuality that reflect the very spirit of modernity condemned in this video. Let God be true and every man be a liar.

[@martinploughboy988]

I didn't see holiness, for there was little discussion of God & His word. It was all about their opinions.

[@mgkos]

@@martinploughboy988 holiness is a peace of the heart that has been attained by both great suffering & great devotion. All your remarks here, are the antithesis of a peaceful heart, remarks that reek of envy. Who cares how much you know if it’s given you no spirit of peace.

[@martinploughboy988]

@@mgkos Holiness is the separation of something to the glory of God. In a man it is the devotion of a life to God's glory. As I said, there was little discussion of God & His word, which there should have been.

[@sophrapsune]

Thanks for this great discussion. After listening to it I’ve found myself much more impressed with Rowan Williams than on previous occasions I’ve heard him lecture. Welcome home, Paul!

[@nickadams8952]

Always two there are, no more, no less. A master and an apprentice. Paul & Rowan God Bless you both.😊

[@thomasvonstieglitz5869]

Thankyou for bringing about this conversation that oculd bring about healing to so many factions opposing each other within the church. I‚d like to add two wise phrases, one from the nobel prize winning Austrian poet Peter Handke, the other from late Josef Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI, which both helped me understand the paradoxical union of faith and reason. Handke stated: „The paradox is the language of truth.“ Ratzinger pointed me to the German term „eine vom Glauben erleuchtete Vernunft“, which might be found in the Church tradition as „ratio fide illustrata“ or in the English tradition as „A reason illuminated by faith“. I think we need this kind of illumation to redirect the way of our theological thinking and praying.

[@Juliet04738]

I could listen to Rowan (especially) forever.. 👏🥹🤗🙏🌈🎉

[@everlasting7078]

That was absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much everyone.

[@trisheds45]

I must point out that I'm part of a growing , living Church in Scotland that is founded on Scripture truth and prayer. Filled with young families, students and young men and women eager to train in ministry. God is alive and working.

[@martinst8764]

An extremely helpful conversation! Really glad I came across this - suffice to say, I've subscribed to the channel.

[@StJosephLovesBabyJesus]

Grateful Catholic listening from New Zealand!

[@ellenwestelaken6276]

Yes, our minds are in our hearts. When we receive Christ, He builds his kingdom in our hearts.

[@jacob5283]

This was great. Love Paul Kingsnorth, and now I love Rowan Williams too

[@nicksibly526]

I truly believe that a re-emphasis on the true presence of Jesus in the Eucharist will help to reinvigorate Christendom. Not seeing Eucharist as simply eating together. I love what Tom Holland has said about Christianity rediscovering its weirdness. I have started to attend one hour of holy hour each Wednesday evening in my tiny little church. I simply sit in front of the Eucharist and not do much else. Weirdly, it has put Jesus much more in the forefront of my mind during my week.

[@danatowne5498]

This needs so many more views. I'm going to pray for this channel - your content is vital at this time in history. Thank you!

[@helendeacon7637]

Thanks again Justin. So pleased to find Paul Kingsnorth, via Gavin Ashenden, in my case. You bring on great guests and important topics. Greetings from Australia!

[@daddycool228]

I thought this was good. I wonder if a Paul K, Jonathan Pageau, Rowan W, and Bishop Barron talk on the state of Christianity, western culture , meaning crisis would be a good one to try

[@jeremywilliams3465]

Paul Vander Klay as well, but yes on that conversation

[@guswhat2639]

Please pray for this person, somehow I feel from his testimony that his faith is still weak. hopefully more and more people will strengthen this person's faith.

[@LJ7000]

I really like what Rowan had to say about environmentalism.

[@martinploughboy988]

But is he right, what does the Bible say?

[@johnandrews1162]

Not about good and evil but life and death .. so good.

[@anaana-hx4sg]

My warm recommendation ´´St. Justin Popovic - Dostoevsky On Europe and Slovenia (Slavism)´´. He is a Serbian Orthodox Christian who earned his doctorate on this thesis . Through it, you will get to know the essence of Eastern Orthodox Christianity, of course, through Dostoevsky, the greatest genius in world literature.

[@praxitelispraxitelous7061]

Thank you så much for this deep conversation 🙏

[@garyrunforstefun6028]

Amen. Great knews Paul!

[@seanmoran2743]

My own personal journey bounced from Wicca to Scientific Atheism But it was my love of JRR Tolkien and to a lesser degree C S Lewis that saved me Especially during the great panic (Re the panic I read the rage against god by Peter Hitchens which I found highly helpful) I am a Christian although I belong to no church I guess I’m Anglican High Church with a fascination with the symbolism and the divine/sublime found in Catholicism Orthodox and High Church

[@richardkut3976]

Excellent.

[@Mike-hr6jz]

I believe Rowan is expressing with some of the rest of us have as well Jesus left 99 for the one. It’s hard to accept that we were one he cared about but in fact, everyone that is a Christian is one. I have those sheep that he comes for and he knocks at the door. This has been a very good video. I have for a long time felt a call towards orthodoxy, but couldn’t pinpoint why put some Times it’s not about all of the logical reasons there’s more to life than just what you think of it. Thanks again.

[@lifeonasmallholdingfarm.5837]

Hi, love what you're doing and saying Paul. Been around the block a few times. Now into mystical Christianity etc. Your stuff reminds me of Jim Punton from the 70s.a gr8 influential guy, we had as lecturer at the ymca college. Biblical scholar and referenced the ancient Greeks myths and jesus. Wondered if you'd heard him? Shalom was one if his emphasis, which influenced a lot of my and others lives. Blessings.

[@MoreChrist]

"The Christian of the future will be a mystic or he will not exist at all." - Karl Rahner S.J.

[@MrHawkMan777]

Yes, I completely agree, Christanity in Europe is going into a new phase where less and less people take it as self-evident like they used to. So the only way people can be convinced of it is through a mystical approach that try's to show you why it's so important for your life, now in this world. Although I think many Christians worry about its future in Europe, I think the coming years will see a great revival in mysticism which is what is most needed for the world not just Christanity.

[@DiscoverJesus]

@@MrHawkMan777 a revival in mysticism? How do you define mysticism

[@dewd9327]

I converted to Orthodox Christianity from Buddhism.

[@robertjarman4261]

Russian Orthodox hopefully.

[@dewd9327]

@@robertjarman4261 There's no difference, Russian Orthodox is just one jurisdiction within the Orthodox Church

[@bellingdog]

I read a story about a Buddhist monk who converted to Orthodoxy and, if I recall correctly, he became a monk on Mt Athos. When asked why, he said he wanted to meditate with Someone, i.e. God.

[@loriscunado3607]

Brilliant

[@MrDannn94]

Epic chat. Thanks to all involved

[@sy8607]

Hey Justin, greetings from NY God bless you

[@Ogdensnutgoneflake78]

Thank you for a very interesting conversation. Paul story is amazingly similar to mine in so many ways!! The only difference is if have yet to find a church

[@PrincipledUncertainty]

As an edgy boy Atheist, back in the day, I came into contact with someone training to be an Orthodox priest. H enlightened me as to the actual meaning of the many parrables etc within the Bible. I had been raised in the Protestant faith, whose literalism had rendered the message almost devoid of merit and certainly not worth considering as worth further investigation if one had an ounce of wit. To cut a long and boring story short, after many discussions concerning objective morality etc with Theists I had made friends with, it was actually science which helped me break free from the materialist cult. I need only say multiple universe theroy and the reasons why that was embraced, I'm sure it's obvious to anyone here. I read an article in the Science Scetion of the old Observer, which was intended to praise the wisdom one of it's modern advocates for avoiding a collision between the facts and the fine tuning hypothesis. Dramatic and unlikely as it sounds, I think I actually dropped the magazine after reading it. What is being hidden is awlways the most interesting thing. That ramble aside, I find myself with a huge conundrum. The teleology and ethos of the Orthodox faith has great appeal, and I have no doubt it would be of benefit to me. However, there's always a however, I know too much about how the brew was cooked to taste it as intended. Any advice? This is thrown out to anyone who is patient enough to read all of this and also kind enough to indulge me with a considered reply. Thanks in advance

[@adolphCat]

The short answer Religion is not just intelectual it is also experimental. You can not experience the Faith without practicing it. For me every Liturgy is extremely fulfilling and brings us up to God, and brings God down to us. Reading 100s of books on how to get and retain a girlfriend has a quite different feel than actually going out there and getting a girlfriend. Intelectual knowledge versus experience of the female psychology and an actual experience of the bonding process of male and female. Eastern Christianity is way less intellectual than Western Christianity and focuses more on the actual practice and Living of the Faith.

[@margueritespringer3687]

Thank you for this Brilliant conversation I've learnt so very much from.

[@ChrisOgunlowo]

Absolutely riveting.

[@johnandrews1162]

Delightful. The saints will come!

[@lufhopespeacefully2037]

why trinity doesn`t wrote in bible

[@extraphenomenal]

@@lufhopespeacefully2037 It is. Read it again.

[@jotunman627]

@@lufhopespeacefully2037 ".....And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” The Holy Trinity manifested in the voice of the Father, the Holy Spirit coming down into the Son in the form of a dove. The Holy Trinity - The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

[@jasonbrown1807]

Wow. Love Rowan's discussion of God and church!

[@Autobotmatt428]

And his Voice adds to the beauty of it.

[@lufhopespeacefully2037]

why trinity doesn`t wrote in bible

[@bellingdog]

​@@lufhopespeacefully2037because it is a Latin word, just as the same as why siesta isn't in the Bible. They both still exist, just not in the language of Aramaic. The Name (not names) of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is where the term Trinity comes from, also, the Bible wasn't formalised until the 4th Century AD. Funnily enough, the Year of our Lord is not in the Bible, yet it is how we measure time.

[@lufhopespeacefully2037]

@@bellingdog .thanks a lot for replying,as far as i know trinity is an old worshipping for some of an ancient egyptian afterthen the church have abducted the notion,the question arose is how often does bible has revised.peace

[@bellingdog]

@lufhopespeacefully2037 I'm Greek Orthodox, we still speak in Koine Greek at Church, which is the language moat of the New Testament is written in, and we have far too many early sources (Church Fathers and even heretics) who quote from scripture to let us know if the Bible has changed. We also have the Peshitta, the Syrian translation, which illustrates if there is a change. And, it looks like we have a very VERY good trail of evidence to illustrate the New Testament is pretty much the same as the Apostles wrote.

[@jackhumphrey4906]

So inspiring and challenging

[@michaeljack6517]

Another very interesting discussion. Thanks Justin.

[@lufhopespeacefully2037]

why trinity doesn`t wrote in bible

[@joelmontero9439]

This show was great, but Justin when will you bring Jonathan Pageau?🙄😂😂 God bless you brothers greetings from Costa Rica

[@DanHowardMtl]

For the mention of Thomas Traherne, there's a Centuries of Meditations book on audible.

[@Revjonbeadle]

I have a hard time hearing Rowan Williams tell us why matter matters when he calls transgenderism a “sacred journey.”

[@daddycool228]

What do you think he meant by that?

[@Revjonbeadle]

@@daddycool228 Those transitioning from male to female are on a sacred journey…

[@foodforthought8308]

That deeply saddens me as well. Speaking of the heretical spirit of modernity, of all ironies. It boils down to letting God be true and every man a liar

[@worldofenigma1]

About as sacred as baphomet.

[@faithburns8379]

Intellectuals gotta intellectualize, I guess😅

[@newdawnrising8110]

Unfortunately the atheists are missing the whole point of us all being here. To discover God is very real and very present is the most exciting thing I have known. There is nothing better going on.

[@peterboos930]

Love your show

[@MusicaAngela]

54:20 “.It’s very easy to have that fantasy, to think that if you just get a few more things right you will save the world. As St. Paul says, the world isn’t ours to save in that sense. We do what we can with the integrity we can bring to it in the context we’re in and I think that’s hard work enough. We push back at certain kinds of exercises of power that are dehumanizing. We keep our expectations human which means understanding that we don’t have infinite resources. That doesn’t mean that you don’t commit to protest, activism, whatever wholeheartedly. It does mean that you constantly remind yourself that ‘I am doing this as a human being, I am not a messiah’. Keep that in proportion. It’s not about concocting the ultimately successful program. It’s about the integrity of your humanity in the place you’re in and changing your lifestyle is worth doing because it is worth doing, not just because it’s going to be useful for a slightly more manageable international economy a couple of decades down the line. It’s the worthwhileness of what you do now.”

[@fargothbosmer2059]

We need Jonathan Pageau X rowan Williams

[@praxitelispraxitelous7061]

Christianity is not a religion. It is life Christos Yanarras

[@AccordingtoJohn]

That's true

[@deion312]

Jesus is Lord

[@lufhopespeacefully2037]

why trinity doesn`t wrote in bible

[@B_Ruphe]

There's a little too much cutting back and forth to the host's face (and the listening guest) in this dialogue.It's rather distracting to the concentration (of course, not looking at the screen avoids that).

[@aratiger6796]

Jesus is lord.

[@stevemorley7657]

My question to RW and PK - both of whom I admire - is: what are two Christians doing on a platform designed to promote capitalism, which, apart from causing suffering on a mass scale and destroying the planet, is based on an ethos diametrically opposed to the Christian ethos espoused by RW and PK?

[@julianrogerhorsfield2962]

I feel a studio discussion would be a better format.

[@aniccadance13]

Iain Mcgilchrist is amazing..

[@frankwhelan1715]

All in the mind.

[@georgedoyle2487]

“All in the mind” Yes exactly! “All in the mind” of an absolute metaphysical, immaterial, invariant ontology. That of which nothing greater and nothing more beautiful can be conceived. “I am still searching for truth” (Buddha) “What is truth” (Pontius Pilate). (Relativism, strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism): “The belief that the absolute truth is that there is no absolute truth!!” “The belief that if i just screamed loud enough “there is no such thing as sound” then sound will cease to exist!!” “I am the truth” (Jesus). “There is in the world only one figure of absolute beauty: Christ. That infinitely lovely figure is, as a matter of course, an infinite marvel.” (Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Letter to niece Sofia Alexandrovna) “When our pride usurps Truth, we walk on the shifting sands of relativism, an ego driven reality.” No offence intended all the best to you and your family keep safe.

[@makestraightthewayofthelor664]

Jesus Gives True Rest 25At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. 26Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 27All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. 28Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am [f]gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

[@mondopinion3777]

Was it Rowan Williams who used to bless the animals ?

[@trisheds45]

Where is scripture? Seems to be missing in this conversation yet it is filled with everything that this discussion touches on. Romans talks of nature groaning. WE are groaning. Romans 11:33 Oh the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God. How unsearchable are His judgements and how inscrutable His ways". Where is Holy Spirit our guiding, leading, Lord who is daily pointing us to Jesus. I too came to faith late in life, in my 50s. I love the mystery. Jesus took me from a place of deep misery and fear and has given me a journey filled with His presence within the the presbyterian tradition where we see God as reigning over the whole of our lives and growing us to be the person he originally decided we would be. I do believe there is room for all traditions for each of us following our way of walking with Jesus. I don't deny that. However scripture as a way of communing with God as well as prayer rather than depending only on experience of the spiritual through liturgies I feel ground us in the whole story that God is working out from the garden, the Fall the Cross and the return. I personally experience God deeply through music but have to ground myself in scripture. I was thirsty for something as soon as jesus woke me up and it was only satisfied by God's Word.

[@cheechak481]

I love your channel......do you actually play those bongo's in the background or are they just props?

[@piretkivi3218]

This conversation nourished my soul. Thank you very much for uploading it. In my opinion the West must return to its roots (i.e. to Christianity). The alternative is complete destruction. The West cannot win any culture wars without its core essence (Christianity). I also agree with Paul regarding Orthodoxy. The older the tradition, the better. The Orthodox Church has kept two extremely important aspects of Christianity: its divine liturgy (where there is no space and time), its fasting requirements. It is quite funny (and also very tragic) that the healthy Mediterranean diet was initially imported from Crete. However, it doesn't really work without fasting. The religion of the Cretans was not taken into account. Therefore the Mediterranean diet solved nothing.

[@makestraightthewayofthelor664]

that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward [c]us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

[@verdajaroszewski9995]

Re: Worship is the best, highest form of thinking. John Milton: Man must be self knowing and from thence magnanimous to correspond with heaven. Paradise Lost.

[@davereckoning9530]

Seems to me Paul could have found a happy home as a Fransiscan. (You know: "rebuild my church"; rebuild my world, rebuild me (i.e. God), etc.)

[@trevorbailey1486]

Paul's conversion...isn't there a precedent for this? To complement his early comments about the style and nature of C of E worship, in his book, 'Our Church', Sir Roger Scruton memorably describes an Englishman's relationship to his church as one of 'loyal indifference'.

[@orthochristos]

The takeaway from this is "We need Saints".

[@jotunman627]

We are all called to be saints. The only purpose of any person’s life is the duty to answer the God-given call to get to Heaven.

[@ahmarfarooki]

Why?

[@johncook19]

One very nice Ex Archbishop of Canterbury should broaden his mind to quantum field theory for a kind of God.

[@shivabreathes]

This sounds familiar. Christ coming to rescue his lost sheep.

[@worldofenigma1]

Rowan Williams - sacrilege is to God, not to the material environment.

[@jamessheffield4173]

Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis

[@alisonwelch8465]

I shall be seeking sound doctrine in this conversation. I don't care about their books or standing in the "world"...to love the world is to be an enemy of God.

[@lufhopespeacefully2037]

why trinity doesn`t wrote in bible

[@alisonwelch8465]

@Gigi Ghiba bot

[@makestraightthewayofthelor664]

16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

[@lufhopespeacefully2037]

why trinity doesn`t wrote in bible

[@lufhopespeacefully2037]

@Bot are you Blammit? ,thank u for replying ,my answer is because it really doesn`t,trinity is an old worshipping for some of an ancient egyptians who were worshipped ecize,outhoric&hurce whereby the church had abducted the notion after about 2 centuries od jesus`d dead.peace man

[@lufhopespeacefully2037]

@Bot are you Blammit? .no ,as a muslim i do believe that jesus is a man who is a great prophet from god

[@lufhopespeacefully2037]

@Bot are you Blammit? it`s okay man,please if u wanna discuss about religions please don`t hesitate to do,i wish u likewise u &your family to live into a glee forevermore bro

[@martinploughboy988]

@@lufhopespeacefully2037 But Christians say Jesus is God, that there are three persons in the one God, and to say that Jesus is just a man is heresy. Not one of us can stand before the holy God, for we have all sinned and deserve destruction. Because God is just He cannot ignore our sin, we must pay the penalty. But God provides a means by which we may be forgiven. The Man, who is also God, takes upon Himself the punishment for our sin and places on us His righteousness. God's justice and mercy is satisfied.

[@martin92177]

44 mins. The problem with Dawkins is that he’s a committed materialist. Yet physics is becoming idealist (over the last 100 years or so). So Dawkins is trapped inside his materialist paradigm and is unable to find a place for the numinous / religious / subjective aspects of his and others’ lived experience. So if I was talking to Dawkins I would not talk about god or religion, but about the fundamental nature of reality - there’s no “stuff” down there under the particles - it’s a single unified field of which everything is a manifestation

[@LJ7000]

Why don't Orthodox church evangelise?

[@AccordingtoJohn]

They do

[@makestraightthewayofthelor664]

In the Year of 2018 on the 8th month August on the 12th day I was lead to fasting and praying by OUR HEAVENLY FATHER HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH CHRIST and consecrating myself unto THE GOD OF ABRAHAM ISAAC AND JACOB/ISREAL WHO CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH THE SEA AND EVERYTHING ON AND IN IT THE FATHER OF OUR LORD, THROUGH CHRIST YESHUA OUR SAVIOR AND REDEEMER asking OUR LORD to show me what is to soon come upon the earth because of all the evil and wickness in the world and on the 2nd night of my fast in a dream I saw OUR LORD AND SAVIOR CHRIST STANDING IN THE CLOUDS And this is how OUR LORD CHRIST appeared to me in my dream 1 Timothy chpt. 6 16who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen. THEN CHRIST OUR LORD SPOKE TO ME IN A GENTLE VOICE THAT SOUNDED LIKE MANY AND SAID THE NUMBER 7 TO ME AND IN THE SAME DREAM I WAS ALSO GIVEN ISAIAH CHPT.13 Isaiah 13 ► King James Bible Par ▾ A Judgment against Babylon 1The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see. 2Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles. 3I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness. 4The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle. 5They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land. 6Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. 7Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: 8And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. 9Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. 10For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. 11And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. 12I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. 13Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. 14And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land. 15Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. 16Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. 17Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. 18Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children. 19And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. 20It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there. 21But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there. 22And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

[@TheGreatAgnostic]

Here’s the rub with personal religious experience and revelation. I can point you to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who claimed he received revelation that Allah appointed him as prophet and Messiah, or Guru Nanak for the Sihks, or Wovoka and the Ghost Dance. Whose to say they didn’t have just as authentic religious experiences? Or, just as intramental? Would love to be able to distinguish.

[@yoe91]

1:59 I've replayed this 3 times, and I can't hear anything else than "...whose 'Butt Master' Trilogy has earned critical acclaim"

[@vonroretz3307]

the jewish religion is not exactly sympathetic to Christ. As religion its also rather slippery (what does it want? Does it want back its lost priesthood, sacrifice and Temple?) and Rowan forgets the context Christ was in, during his earthly tenure as regards the Temple. On the contrary, I think we should contemplate what the figure of “Synagogia”represents in christian art.

[@02sweden]

The Jewish religion is concerned with observance of keeping the Mosaic laws, and they have the most problem with idolatry that is forbidden by the laws. Judaism have this in common with Islam. On the other hand, Judaism is not too concerned what religion other people have, it is not a prozelytizing religion that seeks converts, all be it to be a ben Noha is held in positive regard.

[@blackknight7523]

check Islam

[@rosesffd345]

Check Dr. Jay Smith, Hatun Tash, David wood, Islam Critiqued and Apostate Prophet

[@colinwilson7140]

Watching this podcast just fills me with sadness. Correct me if I am wrong but not once did either of the 2 guests refer to the fact that Christ died for our sins and in order to be a Christian we need to accept him as our personal Saviour and make him Lord of our Lives. Not once did either of the guests directly quote from the scriptures.

[@martinploughboy988]

@Bot are you Blammit? But the Bible is for believers to study, to learn and use as a guide. The 'liturgy' is not sufficient. Jesus continually said, "what do the Scriptures say" and Paul based every argument on the Scriptures. These two based their arguments on their opinions.

[@martinploughboy988]

@Bot are you Blammit? They are arguing from experience, which may be, in fact is likely to be, in error. All they have is their opinions, nothing more. If we want to know about God, about salvation, we have to start from the Bible. I'm afraid I see no evidence that either is a Christian.

[@martinploughboy988]

@Bot are you Blammit? Testimony is apologetics.

[@MangyPL]

Sola scriptura! hurr durr!

[@MangyPL]

@Bot are you Blammit? It means the opening poster is being stupid

[@martinploughboy988]

Two men who do not understand Christianity, who, indeed are not Christians. Paul's question, "is there a way of reconnecting people to the sense that God is actually imminent" is clearly answered by Scripture - mankind is at enmity with God, men hate God and pretend to themselves that He does not exist. They both get it wrong, it isn't about persuading people, it's about God working in their heart and drawing them to Him. As Jesus says: All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. ..... No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. (John 6:37, 44 [ESV2011])

[@alexw368]

Sounds like work based salvation to me. It is by grace through faith. That’s it. Repeating things does not make you enter the kingdom of God

[@martinploughboy988]

@Bot are you Blammit? The Nicene Creed is inadequate, as is demonstrated by the confessions of the Reformation which had to address the multiple heresies of the Roman Church. The Nicene Creed only had to deal with the heresies that were extant at the time, it did not have to address the heresy that faith plus works is required for salvation. Even in it's day it was inadequate, since it did not address the heresy of the Judaisers, that Paul condemns in the letter to the Galatians.

[@martinploughboy988]

@@alexw368 Both the grace and the faith to believe come from God. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9 [ESV2011])

[@martinploughboy988]

@Bot are you Blammit? Every confession is formulated to address the problems of the time, curiously there isn't one that addresses the Woke arguments, or mentions BLM. On the other hand, the Bible is the source from which all confessions arise and, unlike those confessions, is complete. Heresies, by their nature, disagree with the Bible.

[@martinploughboy988]

​@Bot are you Blammit? The Bible clearly dismisses heresies, since all creeds and confessions are based on it. The Apostles were in a special position, as those who were writing Scripture, they were granted abilities not given to others. Peter had been given a dream indicating that the Gentiles were to be accepted and makes the point that they, without circumcision, had received the Holy Spirit. He makes the distinction between the works, symbolised by circumcision, salvation and salvation by grace, pointing out that the children of Israel had historically failed to keep the law. As to the Apostles view of Scripture, they, like Jesus, continually used it as their authority, as does James in Acts 15:16.

[@ThomasDoubting5]

Christianity has failed, the Christian way of dealing with blame someone scapegoat them and nail them to a cross and later burn women who wasn't part of their cliques at the stakes because of the villages woes they ignorance brought up on them.

[@WhiteStoneName]

46:00 Why are there these assumptions that "Christianity is something that wants to take things away from you and control you."? Because it DOES have that Antichristian tendency in Confessionalism. Confessionalism is a binary, black-white, bounded-set border of In/Out. It's anti-mystical. And it's not truly Christian, imo. But it has grown up right alongside.

[@worldofenigma1]

It is just a fact that there are rules in the Bible, and according to the Bible (and if it is correct) then they are God's rules.

[@bouzoukiman5000]

The religious will just keep reaching no matter what we learn from science. Sad when people cling to an explanation of our world and the universe from superstitious ancient people with the minds of a modern 10 year old. Childhood stories/threats of eternal hell and your emotions get in the way of logic

[@lark8356]

Grace and Peace to you. I would be delighted to discuss this on Telegram with you and anyone else who reads this comment. You can find the Telegram link in the About section of my KZbin page. I'd post the Telegram link here, but KZbin would remove my post. I look forward to speaking with you. God bless you.

[@bouzoukiman5000]

@@lark8356 there is no debate. It's like i said. That's it

[@daddycool228]

Not 'sad' for them, clearly.

[@bayreuth79]

You are assuming that there is only kind of explanation and that’s scientific explanation but only people who hold scientism believe that. Scientism is not science; it’s a philosophical position akin to logical positivism. What you said above is philosophy, not science. Now, what scientific facts are incompatible with Christianity? I mean: mainstream Christianity, not fundamentalist fringe movements. Clearly, Francis Collins does not see any contradiction between science and religion.

[@georgedoyle2487]

“People with minds of modern tens year old” Ho the irony!! That’s very ironic coming from a relativist, that is a strictly reductive materialist, atheist or philosophical naturalist!! Sorry but that was nothing more substantive than a long list of logical fallacies. Evidence please that a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism is true not (Appeal to Ridicule Fallacies and Straw man Fallacies)!! Not to mention (Appeal to Neutrality Fallacies!! I’ll Wait The belief that all the people during this period of time had the “minds of a ten year old is a myth”. I’m not making any appeals to authority but according to the award winning physicist William Bragg…. “Religion and science are opposed ... but only in the same sense as that in which my thumb and forefinger are opposed - and between the two, one can grasp everything. - (Sir William Bragg, Nobel Prize in Physics 1915).