Fighting Balthazar Twice! Baldur's Gate 3, Nine Hells Challenge

[@RoryDavidWatts]

Happy 8k subs Melth (I'm assuming that by the time you read this, the 7.99 will have ticked over to 8k). Very well deserved.

[@Melth]

Thank you very much! I'm happy to know so many people enjoy these videos. It'll probably be another few days before that 8k tick, but 7.99 is certainly many more than I expected to ever get to years ago when I made my first videos!

[@Rontti_]

Love the thought that a portal to a dimension in an ancient temple, sealed away for god knows how long, has been opened, with this necromancer looking for the immortality of the Absolute army general. And he stops to trade for some herbs

[@Melth]

There are so many moments where opening up the trading screen in the middle of a dramatic conversation/beginning of a fight is hilarious What makes it especially funny is that the designers do clearly have a way to turn the option off and sometimes do... but nowhere near often enough

[@MarvinFang]

Melth, love the content!! Just thought about it, with patch 7 out now, would you change your party comp or builds if you restart your series today? Cuz I remember you said a while back spore druid now is kinda meh now, so i wonder what you would do if you are allowed to change up the party comp.

[@Melth]

Honestly I haven't paid that much attention to which balance changes came in which patch, so I can't give a very specific answer. If I was trying to win in a fast but kinda boring way, I would probably have a party of 2 swords bards with one using titanstring and one using neer misser, plus have an Eldritch blaster lore bard. That would give me so many Song of Rest restores per act that I could spam out slashing flourish infinitely

[@VERY_TALL_MAN]

Balthazaar’s poison cloud absolutely anihilated all my summons the first time I fought him lol… it was a good lesson in spacing!

[@Melth]

@@VERY_TALL_MAN the deadliest thing in the game is being packed in with your summons after going through a door into a new zone or something! Several times in act 3 I had my horde of summons get wiped by us all being packed in with no opportunity to move when a trap went off or something

[@wekashipo7507]

Aylin feels like a DMPC. That's the exact vibe I always got from her. And she's definitely not properly immortal, because the spear of night can kill her. Selune is just an incredibly powerful goddess and it takes the blessing of an equal or stronger one (Shar) to counteract that blessing. Super unfair, by the way, that Aylin gets pseudo-immortality from being a demigod, and Durge just gets mental illness. I also think it's funny that she's stupid in the same way Ketheric is. She's also conflates immortality with invincibility, and gets her ass handed to her. I don't want to get too Freudian, but it's interesting that Isobel's father and her girlfriend are both paladins who think slamming their heads into a wall is a sound strategy.

[@brendanl7675]

Yep, she exudes major main character syndrome with cut scenes that try to steal the limelight.

[@Melth]

Good thoughts about that, yeah, she does feel like the badly done kind of DMPC. Thankfully all her promises of helping you and fighting along with you are lies so we only have to put up with her a few times. Durge should have chosen to be the son/daughter of a god that isn't garbage at everything if he wanted some blessings! Bad strategy choice, picking Bhaal as your father! I do also agree with your observation that Aylin and Ketheric are quite similar in many ways. They also both have an all-about-me attitude and some other similarities. I don't think though that we're supposed to notice that. It seems like we're supposed to think highly of Aylin and condemn Ketheric as a bad father for disapproving of their (completely unequal and very suspect) 'love'

[@brendanl7675]

@@Melth Getting off topic I know, but Ketheric's disapproval was always a given. He's a lord of a land, of course he'd want an heir to carry the name. Instead he'd end up bequeathing it to none other than the daughter of his deity; same deity that wouldn't grant a cure to his wife. It's like Selune wants undying rule of both heaven and earth! She really is Shar's sister.

[@riptidetube123]

Glad I'm not the only one disappointed with the shadowfell, as I had a whole storyline with a character in a dnd game of mine where he explored the shadowfell and stuff and it was really cool and interesting to go through, only to get blocked by Halsin for his quest and find whatever it is Aylin is being held in as if it was just a reskinned astral plane.

[@FelipeSilva-bq7dk]

I think the game was too big for them to add the Shadowfell. I think that's why they used the shadowcurse to give the ambience to Act 2. Now I realise that they should call the place Shadow Prison, more like a small piece inside of the shadow fell

[@Melth]

The shadowfell (and the plane of shadow before it) are definitely interesting ideas that could make for great gameplay, particularly with the idea that the shadowfell is a dark reflection of the normal physical world with terrain and objects being similar but not the same between them, and with going through shadow allowing rapid transit I think one could make a whole game revolving around such things, like the light world vs dark world in Zelda a Link to the Past

[@randomdude2327]

Any more of these videos and I’m gonna ascend to heaven, love the content and happy New year🙌🏽

[@Melth]

@@randomdude2327 I'm glad to hear you enjoy the series so much! Happy new year to you too

[@Etamalgren]

RE: Attempting to return to Act I zones after entering the Shadowfell: Someone's explanation for why you get an instant game over if you try to go back to Act I zones was that, as time passed, there'd be fewer and fewer other True Souls for you to blend in with and stay undercover. After dealing with the Nightsong, presumably there's so few/no True Souls left in Act I areas, making it really easy for the Netherbrain to focus all its efforts on you for ceremorphosis when you stray from all the True Souls close to Moonrise/the path to Baldur's Gate. Seems reasonable enough to me... though I do think it's a bit silly that just the mere act of trying to return to act 1 three times is enough for an instant game over -- especially since you could potentially have Jaheira and/or Halsin in your party, neither of which are tadpoled and could've quickly grabbed whatever the party had missed before heading to Act III with the Netherbrain being none the wiser...

[@Melth]

@@Etamalgren there are some problems with that, and with all other attempted explanations though 1) the game doesn't say it, the game gives no real explanation 2) no explanation could POSSIBLY make sense because... the big plot twist at the end reveals that the elder brain doesn't actually WANT to transform us in the first place

[@atlas3104]

Fun fact (melf prob knows this) but you can sneakly move the bone piles in that second arena do anywhere you want (as long as its not in balf's cone of vision) and once the battle starts the dead will rise from the piles. I used it during my solo tactician run to thunderwave 40% of the undead off the plane

[@Melth]

@@atlas3104 interesting! I didn't know you could move them without alerting him

[@TT-ez1ws]

The entrance to the shadowfell is water because shadowheart cant swim and its another one of shars shitty tests

[@Melth]

@@TT-ez1ws I kind of remember that now from when I had shadow heart in the party. But that only explains one aspect of it. That explains why Shar would want water here on the path, but it still doesn't explain at all why/how a portal to the Shadowfell (a plane not associated particularly with water) could just be a pool of water

[@ChThuter]

Can't help but notice that the approval score is slowly crawling down during Act 2

[@Melth]

Yeah, there are some bad moments during this part of act 2 in particular. Overall I think 1 is the best act, 2 is the worst, and 3 is in between (when it's not buggy)

[@Cassandra_Solidor]

The cutscene is a bit misleading. Dame Aylin doesn't cure the Shadowlands, she's essentially a souped-up version of Isobel's buff or your Moon Lantern. The shadows are simply retreating because they can't handle her presence. If you didn't complete the Thaniel quest chain, you won't get the cutscene showing the land healing as you exit for Baldur's Gate.

[@jayrobitaille2402]

21:35 With my first female drow bard character when I was just doing a blind run on normal mode, I did not know you could fight Balthasar in advance and actually got ambushed by this fight with my party surrounded and it was one of my few TPKs on normal mode. lol

[@Melth]

@@jayrobitaille2402 oof! That first round can certainly be brutal against this many enemies if your party doesn't go first and wipe most of them out

[@jayrobitaille2402]

@@Melth I cannot believe I fell for the but there is "only one guy" ruse (lol). My first run was embarrassing compared to later runs on higher difficulties. My Half Orc Paladin just breezed through Tactician and even did content I missed the first time (like Ansur).

[@kessler4o573]

It's worth noting that during development, the nightsinger or nightsong, or the late ditty, or the dark chanting, or whatever confusing way the game wants to call her, was supposed to be a priestess of shar. Shadowheart would likely sacrifice her to become a dark justiciar. It does not make a lot of sense to have aylin here, because you'd think enslaving a literal child of selune for your gain would be something shar would be very happy about, but no. And frankly, I don't think her relationship with isobel adds anything to the game. If anything, her being what she is means that she should easily be able to deal with moonrise towers on her own. This is because direct children of gods are Empyreans, which for those that don't know, under 5e rules, they are huge sized titans with a cr of 23. Such enemies are meant for high level parties (lvl 15+), which are not the ones act 2 or even 3 are balanced for. (though i do get that magical items are very powerful and accesible in this game). Having the nightsong be a priestess of shar would explain a lot about why ketheric ultimately switched sides. He'd have reason to believe a priestess of shar murdered his selunite daughter, and that he'd been manipulated into serving shar, which is very in character for her worshippers. I feel like there could be a very good story here about the thorms, about how ketheric has been a puppet for gods his entire life, but it's fairly confusing, and i say this having played through this act multiple times.

[@victor1756]

In specific playthrough Aylin in necessary, otherwise even in final fight of Act2 instead to fight Ketheric, she fights the tiny brains. It is like in political saying "...to be your (America in saying) friend is fatal " . I saw her usefulness only in BG3 NO KILL RUN, where Aylin requires insane amount of buffs , healing, invis... to make her useful and kill both Ketheric and Myrkul. I had the same feeling about emptiness of the many places in BG3, until I've install mod "Extra encounters and minibosses". There is also "Tactician Enhanced " mod with impossible challenge.

[@atlas3104]

Would the non-lethal attack passive also work for this method?

[@Melth]

@@atlas3104 no, because Balthazar is undead and undead can never be knocked out

[@maelstrrom2824]

I found Aylin to be obnoxious. I also don't really hate Wulbren; he seems like a competent leader for the most part, the game just tells you to dislike him. I wish there was a better outcome for his quest

[@Melth]

@@maelstrrom2824 it does feel like, especially in late act 2 and act 3, the game starts telling us we are supposed to hate certain characters (like Lorroakan or Wulbren) with a passion, and love others (like Aylin). But I didn't always agree with the writer's assessment of who was despicable

[@konferansjer]

How does the game treat identical results in initiative? I mean, when someone rolls 3 in their 1d4 roll and has +5 from alert and +3 from dex, then the total is 11, but when someone with +5 from alert and +2 from dex rolls 4 then it's also a total of 11, so who goes first? Is it the one with higher dex or random?

[@Cassandra_Solidor]

Whoever has the higher DEX score is the tiebreaker. This includes odd numbers despite them not giving you an increased modifier. The game simply checks "is the stat higher?"

[@Melth]

@@Cassandra_Solidor iirc in this game it's actually the opposite of 5E's tiebreaking. In this game, the person with a WORSE modified goes first when there is a tie. This is a serious strategy obstacle because it means I have to get +4 extra initiative compared to an enemy to guarantee going first, instead of just +3

[@insomniac0095]

Sorry if this was answered, but do you know if you just knock Balthazar out and long rest, would he show up in the second fight? Or does this only work by leaving him standing and running away?

[@Melth]

@@insomniac0095 undead (which Balthazar is) can't actually be knocked out under any circumstances

[@insomniac0095]

@@Melth Oh right

[@Gameman5252-e2r]

Will the same thing happen if you knock him out non-lethally?

[@Melth]

@@Gameman5252-e2r impossible since he's undead, unfortunately

[@morpheus24]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/f3qXiJiml7tmn6s I think the answer might be related to the game engine methods for tracking progress. Making a hard cut (with a plausible narrative reason like plane jumping acting as PoNR) insures stable gameplay, less bloat. And so that lower city can be as big as possible for all your sandbox needs.

[@Kododie]

28:06 Well you know what they say about paladins. They are lawfully stupid.

[@Melth]

Sadly often true, but she's the stupidest. This game has a decent number of mostly smart paladins like Zevlor to round it out

[@DutchyNeon]

only time when i crashed game in my honor mode was the elevator, i didnt know about this bug... i had three downed people stuck in the void, nope didnt happen xd

[@Melth]

Elevators: more dangerous than gods. The only thing more dangerous is having money in your pockets while talking to some random toll collector

[@DutchyNeon]

@@Melth Can i play an elevator domain cleric?

[@morpheus24]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/f3qXiJiml7tmn6s Aylin is Selune's Champion. Literally, deus (small d) Ex Machina. That's why you experience the lack of agency here.

[@brendanl7675]

Doesn't matter how much it makes sense, reducing agency in an RPG comes off poorly. Aylin would be a lot less unlikeable if she weren't 'immortal'.