Rulers and Power | Mary Beard and David Mitchell

[@K8E666]

I think that contrary to some opinions here, David will have really enjoyed this. From reading his personal books, he’s all to aware that he’s NOT an historian he’s a history lover. He will have enjoyed learning from Mary who’s a lecturer at Cambridge University and a world class renowned historian. Thoroughly enjoyed this, David’s factual and comedic history and Mary’s factual history. Both have their merits. I absolutely loved Unruly and have listened to it many times, I also love Mary’s Roman adventures and lectures on the subject…

[@james_baker]

this was a wondaful treat. It's been hard to think of the Romen Empire without thinking of Mary Beard and her amazing documentaries. David Mitchell has been a very big part of my KZbin life these past few years. I'm on page 53 of Unruly and it is everything I'd hope for. Thank you How to Academy Mindset for posting this, 😻

[@bleysmcnutt5500]

I just rounded off my fourth re-read of it today! It's one of my favorite books ever, absolutely worth reading and re-reading. As an American, it's also great to learn about the history of a country that I was only taught about from the early 1600's to the mid 1940's in school.

[@mkfrook]

+

[@aussietroll7873]

So how many times a day do you think about Mary Beard? 🤔

[@fatty_owls]

I was there!! These are 2 of my favourite living people, & being completely obsessed with comedy and ancient & medieval history, this was the highlight of my life tbh. Love them both so much but I do wish Mary could’ve let David speak a bit more, she’s a giant in the world of Roman history but she was a little patronising to him at times

[@markjoscelyne7513]

And David had to just politely keep smiling and laughing politely as he wished the sofa was two or three feet wider

[@AnnaAnna-uc2ff]

@@markjoscelyne7513 Prove it.

[@RM-ti8nf]

I was just about to tune out for this very reason and yours is the first comment i saw. I'm now sick of her voice because of it.

[@magster6022]

Exactly. Time them. He claims plenty of time.

[@shermoore1693]

I agree, not only do I wish she had let David speak more, but I also wish she had been a little less self-satisfied. I agree with David's opinion 100%. The Roman sculptors DID make differences in features that correspond to the real face of whoever they were sculpting. I think Mary is probably the only person who, on closely looking at them, cannot see any differences. I'm going to buy 'Unruly' now!

[@corneliabayley723]

Thank you for bringing us 2 of my favorite, brilliant people!

[@monkeytron5061]

British people who love talking about history are super entertaining. It’s funny. It IS! It is also so important and valuable to learn, but it is really funny too. Great stuff.

[@mamba101]

Is that because of all the self denial and hypocrisy?

[@TheNightBadger]

@@mamba101 Troll.

[@norbitcleaverhook5040]

​@@mamba101Nah. Because of their awesome history of conquering those weaker people.

[@111176991]

@@mamba101Lmaaaao the British got so salty

[@DemJonesDemJones]

8:32 "when do you think people started noticing the government?" Is a very underrated question, and i wish she hadnt been so gilb about it.

[@bbgg8642]

Turn this into a podcast please Mary, David

[@adpirtle]

This is such a brilliant conversation from beginning to end. Highly recommend both books as well.

[@thenobleandmightybeaver4411]

Wow, what a treat!!! I have missed Mary Beard and wondering what she has been up to. What a brill duo, Mary and David.

[@ststudios12345]

David is absolutely right on the art history thing. The roman statues objectively look like a person. The portrait of Henry the 8th objectively looks like a person. The painting of Æthelred objectively does not look like a person.

[@joannmay-anthony1076]

I loved Claudius as play by Derek Jacobi. Loved that series.

[@pablo19136]

I wish they would repeat it.

[@PaulIsaacT.PowerPoet-so1gh]

Yes, me too. It's on youtube free.

[@judechauhan6715]

History is about learning and David's point of learning the environment and context is what allows us to prevent it again and create a better environment and position for the people now and to come.

[@RobDavisAkaMonk]

I have to say I agree with David. Some of the paintings of a lot of middle ages kings look far less like actual people than the sculptures of Roman emperors. Even the portrait of Henry VIII looks less like a human than those busts of emperors.

[@murphybartle592]

yeah I dont really know what she meant when she said those statues dont look like people. Is she litterly just reffering to the fact they are white marble? because they look like people to me

[@pegm5937]

I adore David Mitchell in WILTY and didn't even know he wrote things! I'm so happy I stumbled onto this! My copy of Unruly will be here tomorrow! Can't wait!

[@andrewgrant6516]

Try The Cloud Atlas. It's brilliant.

[@sailawayteam]

He also wrote the Business Secrets of The Pharoahs (though under a pseudonym). Published by British London.

[@pegm5937]

@@andrewgrant6516 isn't that by a different David Mitchell?

[@Pat_Springleaf]

@@pegm5937sure is

[@TreyBratcher-l4s]

We need David Mitchell and Professor Ronald Hutton discussion

[@scerpalman]

Great discussion; funny, informative and interesting! Credit to the moderator, pretty difficult to balance questions about the Roman Empire and the British monarchy and I think she did really well

[@mc6354]

David is brilliant. The comedian/historian takes the cake. The longer I listened, the more I wish it was just David talking.

[@trothaksharkpuncher1059]

If that's what you want you can get his audiobook, which he narrates.

[@Mistmantle88]

I agree many times over. This woman bores me so thoroughly that I cannot even enjoy David’s talk, I just want it to be over.

[@justagame101]

It's weird how many people seem to dislike Beard. She's a brilliant historian and author with fascinating insight. David is a hobbyist; a hilarious, entertaining hobbyist, but this wasn't just a chat about comedy. It was about history, and Mary is one of the most knowledgeable modern-day greco-roman historians. A difference of opinion, I guess.

[@gordoncampbell7120]

Harsh, I love Mary's knowledge and delivery.

[@norbitcleaverhook5040]

​@@justagame101She said things this night that were untrue. She said Imelda Marcos was dead. She is still alive and her shoes have been catalogued. And where was she on the Medieval vs Roman Art. How can someone who has researched Rome her whole life have that take? How can she not be blown away by the art of the Romans. Such a strange take. And what's with the whole, Romans were just "macho men" marching around. And the people who are fascinated by Rome are just men who fantasize about being a Macho man marching in the army? Her biased opinions are making her visions of history quite uninteresting and she doesn't at all seem passionate about it. Quite defensive too.

[@chrisdooley8155]

As soon as they pulled back to that wide shot at 13:05, I learned that Alex Horne ruled the Roman Empire from 117-161 CE.

[@JuliaHopewell]

Bottom left? Ha ha. Totally agree. It is exactly the way he tends to look off to the side.

[@IamRobotMonkey]

All hail Little Alex Horne!!

[@barryporteous4904]

@@JuliaHopewell Vitellius (Top centre) could, at a stretch (pun intended) be Greg Davies??

[@IamRobotMonkey]

King Alex the Little

[@helencourtnell5621]

Whilst Mary Beard is undoubtedly incredibly learned, she is definitely not a team player. Or else she is unable to contain her professorial superiority over someone who she knows is not recognised as a bona fide historian. She just didn’t seem to want to let David have his say.

[@pegm5937]

This was simply brilliant.

[@gb4375]

I enjoyed the moderators giggles as much as the conversation!

[@sgtrock6283]

My favorite historian and comedian!

[@annettemarshall4895]

these two are having such fun

[@j.j.c.s2802]

Please could you use a 'jump cut' transition between shots rather than fade to black? The fade to black transition tends to signal an ending or to introduce a new subject etc, and it's a little confusing when used during a continuing conversation. Just a suggestion, from a viewer perspective. Hope that's constructive. Very enjoyable discussion.👍

[@SanTM]

Business Secrets of the Pharaohs is still a possibility in a real life non Peep Show form

[@Neilhuny]

David Mitchell has deservedly earned a great reputation as a talented entertainer, comedian and wit, with great historical and political knowledge; an undoubted accomplished person. Mary Beard is even more impressive, imo Both are great. Bluddi loved the anecdote about Paddington author, queen and acting, and I've never heard of Tibeius' antics in a swimming pool, until now Hannah McGuiness intrigues me - daughter of a famous mother??

[@CriticalDispatches]

In what regard is Beard ' even more impressive'?

[@Neilhuny]

@@CriticalDispatches Encyclopaedic knowledge of her subject and world acknowledged expert

[@CriticalDispatches]

@@Neilhuny Sadly, I didn't see any of that in this video.

[@Neilhuny]

@@CriticalDispatches Extraordinary

[@norbitcleaverhook5040]

​​@@NeilhunyIt's true. I saw an insecure lady who put her biased opinions in front of fact. How can anyone disagree that Roman Art was better than Medieval art. She knew what he meant and she played it down for who knows why. Very strange to study Romans your whole life and be underwhelmed by their art. The whole Macho Roman thing comes across and quite juvenile as well. I think her agenda was on display here.

[@Arateenteras]

Delightfull , a sheer enjoy..no matter history, this are two of the most articulate historians, besides their bast knowledge, they keep it down to earth are humble and give all of us a wonderful time. Kids would love history with them .

[@janwilson9485]

Incredibly interesting and amusing. I love both Mary and David individually but wouldn't it be good to have them collaborating on a tv or radio show about 'light hearted' history, a sort of more adult horrible histories.

[@monkeytron5061]

Yeah man, David could write some comedy sketches to pepper it with. I’d watch that!

[@Ronariverah]

They are both so cute

[@CthulhuInc]

no - did you watch this? they do not work well together at all

[@monkeytron5061]

@@CthulhuInc I felt different. Do you prefer her interview with Richard Herring maybe, it was funnier I guess?

[@monkeytron5061]

@@CthulhuInc oh I see, the body language is awful isn’t it. I was listening to it myself so just loved the topics and what they said. It was great. To be fair though, that sofa they were on was very small wasn’t it? I imagine both Mary and David prefer a wide personal space like myself and took one look at that sofa and thought “awkward!!”

[@ipadhellemans1811]

So enjoyable. Thankyou😊

[@sartoresartus]

Imelda Marcos is still alive, for one thing, and she never denied it. She said she was given them because the Philippines has a lot of light industry, so the midsize shoe manufacturers gave her shoes.

[@martin2289]

That's not untrue. But she also had a huge number of designer brands that were made in Europe.

[@SamDiMento]

47:30 Fascinating observation by David Mitchell, what does "English" mean? Well, the heritage of the Kings and Queens of England is what seems to bind people together as "English." Very interesting!

[@merryboy]

Excellent!

[@janvriend7948]

This is comedy with substance! Unruly but to the point.

[@judechauhan6715]

54:11 No, like in politics, the vicious and brutal traits of leaders were apparent in all 'successful' (not necessarily good or just) rulers regardless of gender. That is shown in the rulers we know of who did so supposedly in spite of their gender such as Matilda whose father made everyone promise she would be next in line likely because he was greedy and wanted his bloodline to succeed. Elizabeth who won wars, quashed rebellions etc and Victoria who took over 25% of the world... dividing by gender is silly when you can group them all equally by personality, ruthless.

[@YABBAHEY1]

Two thinkers that are very much up there on my favorites list. Only wish the program director hadn't employed disposable microphones they bought at a drugstore in the check out aisle.

[@christiner6000]

I've read David's book "Unruly" and it's well fun and informational.

[@peterp6974]

I understood what informational meant

[@TheValeyard92]

​@@peterp6974You understood what all of it meant.

[@scottscottsdale7868]

Great discussion. Regarding the Iron Age for most people up until early modern time, I am reminded that under that definition Madagascar remains largely in the Iron Age. Little guys and houses.

[@vickywitton1008]

This was brilliant!❤

[@stuartcmcd]

I'm not sure Beard is as funny as she thinks she is. Also I'm glad Mitchell was having none of her insistence that Western art didn't decline in the dark ages. "You think it did, but really, your perception is wrong" - oh bugger off.

[@norbitcleaverhook5040]

That is the strangest take I've ever heard. It's like she hates Rome and the people who are interested in it? She is strange. Why can't men be interested in Rome because of the history, art, poetry and all round shaping of the world rather than just the "macho men" syndrome she accused us of?

[@lbazemore585]

A people must have the leisure to study history in order for political history to matter.

[@bobshuwab1988]

Why are they sitting so uncomfortably close?

[@bleysmcnutt5500]

lol

[@benflint4207]

They've had a drink

[@78625amginE]

Good question. It’s pretty strange. Someone messed up. But the editing is also super weird so I’m not surprised that they didn’t know what they’re doing. 🤷‍♂️

[@bleysmcnutt5500]

@@78625amginE The editing is like that because this a recorded live talk in a large room that had other screens in it, sort of like a modern church. They were doing the "edits" live which were just cuts to other cameras with close or wide shots.

[@NormLegge]

@@bleysmcnutt5500 many live shows are produced this way. For some reason they chose to “fade through black” instead of a more standard “cut” or “quick dissolve”. Since fading to black generally denotes passing time, the result is a bit strange.

[@cwbrooks5329]

Aww. It's as if David Mitchell is leading the life that Mark Corrigan dreamt of living in an alternate universe.

[@quintuscrinis]

Love the point about the Claudius story because we also have the fact that he was allegedly assainated himself and then painted as incredibly inept and timid (look how he started) so thank the gods he's gone now as well.

[@jdeeken6697]

I am sure the camera man is happy….but both Mary and David look very uncomfortable. Both are lovely and very very bright. I think separate chairs would have made a difference

[@paulbuck90]

Poor old David

[@joechip1232]

It's funny seeing the negative reactions of people to Mary Beard. I'm guessing that most people who dislike her style haven't spent a lot of time in academia, because (1) the way she talks is quite common for someone from that setting, where disagreement is not shameful, nor is being challenged or corrected; and (2) by the standards of academics, she is quite polite, entertaining, and nice. Seriously, the behaviour you see amongst academics can be truly atrocious. And I'm sure that David, who gets way more shit from Lee Mack on WILTY, was absolutely fine with the small amount of pushback that he got from a historian who he obviously had a lot of respect for.

[@moaninggimp7161]

Get over yourself 😂

[@UPalooza]

Mary Beard used to be just a pain. Now she's insufferable. My apologies to David Mitchell, who deploys de-escalation over and over. It doesn't work with an egotistical monster like Beard

[@nimnims91]

😱

[@piketrekfsdf209]

Mary Beard is like many authors, half a nut job. Weird to find it in a woman,, usually it's an eccentric man. Never discuss stuff with an author.

[@norbitcleaverhook5040]

Yeah she is insecure about her BBC documentary host position. David is in waiting as a host and she is freaking out.

[@Philip-l6w9n]

I thought Mr. Mitchell did well in the face of Olympic standard patronisation. He was treated by Professor Beard as if he was in the sixth form learning for the first time about the emperors of Rome. I am so disappointed that Professor Beard apparently has such a self satisfied and all knowing view of the world and her own importance in defining what is important In the story of mankind. I really don't want to be rude, but I doubt very much that anyone would even have heard of her, or most of us, two millennia hence. Therefore whilst she is entitled and eminently qualified to talk about individuals who determined world affairs so long ago, I hardly think she is realistic in her assertions that her own views on such matters are now the definitive ones.

[@Merdle]

He's an idiot.

[@norbitcleaverhook5040]

​@@MerdleNo he is not. He is quite intelligent. As is she. She also seems very insecure. Enough so that it is affecting her work.

[@Strauss-]

She made serious disagreements twice, in both cases he repeated Victorian style pseudo history. Otherwise she praised him and admired his points at multiple times.

[@TheValeyard92]

​@@Strauss-please elaborate: what is "Victorian pseudo-historical" about the empirical observation that classical sculpture is more anatomically accurate than medieval painting?

[@thenoblegnuwildebeest3625]

14:30 Can someone explain her argument about medieval art? I hear variants of this a lot, but never really understand the point. It just seems clear to me that ancient art looked more lifelike than medieval art.

[@Alfred5555]

Seems like the point is that ancient art typically displayed an idealised version of the person it represented., both to propagandise the masses and to give themselves some self confidence. Whereas in the medieval period the power structure was more concrete, theologically enforced by Rome and the philosophies of the era, etc, ergo they didn't care as much about propagandising the masses with dazzling icons, because they already have all the self-confidence and loyalty of the people they feel like they need. It's not really a point about art as a science, abilities, finery, techniques, etc. It's actually a completely nonsense made-up sociological point snuck into under the umbrella of "art history", which is often a sociological thing rather than a scientific history. Evidence being, people think medieval art was only the cartoonish wall paintings and tapestries, etc. In reality there are just as many if not many many more grand and photorealistic (though still idealised) statues in cathedrals and town squares and so on. We still have lots of them today on display just as they were in the same churches 800 years ago, but we just seem to overlook them and think they're a part of today, not realising they're medieval.

[@thenoblegnuwildebeest3625]

@@Alfred5555 Interesting. Could you point me towards some examples of more photorealistic medieval statues / painting?

[@Alfred5555]

​@@thenoblegnuwildebeest3625 Well you could just google medieval art, and you'll see almost photorealistic stuff from the 12-1300s, and in the 1400s it's almost as good as the renaissance modern stuff. Certainly a clear step up from the classic wall painting style stuff of the classical era, though the depth and composition is still lacking. In regards to sculpture, like I said, those statues and spires on churches aren't 19th century additions, they're 12th 13th 14th century, and just as good as anything from the classical era. There certainly was a dip in some fine arts during the dark ages and early medieval era, but we just don't have many records. But in jewellery, wood carving, and book illustrations/illuminations the Germanic tribes seemed always superior to the Greco-Roman world. By the Anglo-Saxon era, pristine and highly detailed jewellery of cut gemstones and gold inlays were relatively common, much more sophisticated than most Roman jewellery, that was usually something gold plated with a whole shiny stone just anchored to it (I happen to like the gaudiness of that style, but the Saxon jewellery is so much more impressive). Some examples, Paintings: (weird depth scale, but technically near photorealistic/realism) Presentation at the Temple (1300s). Maesta, Duccio. Kiss of Juda. St.Francis Recieving the Stigmata (late 1200s). (proto-impressionism/semi-realism) Crucifix, Cimabue (1200s). Aachen Gospels (800s). The Lothair Crystal. Illuminations: Drogo Sacramentary (800s). Codex Aureus. Codex Argenteus (500s). Jewellery: Reliquary, Nicholas of Verdun (1200s) All of Sutton Hoo (600s maybe even earlier). Crescent-Shaped Pendent with Confronted Birds (1000s). Chasse with the Crucifixion and Christ in Majesty (1100s). Sittingbourne Seax (900s) Not everything has name but, search Anglo-Saxon brooches, etc. There jewellery was as good as anything, even modern Faberge. Sculpture: Just look at medieval churches, cathedrals, and coffins/tombs. Ambon of Henry II (1000s). Bernward Column. Bernward Doors. Veroli Casket (900s)

[@thenoblegnuwildebeest3625]

@@Alfred5555 Thanks

[@bennylloyd-willner9667]

Saw David and the title "Rulers". I thought "Mmm, yummy, an anorak talk about millimeters, inches, rulers, and other measurement tools" 😁

[@Ludifant]

It's interesting that ruler and rule has the same root as ruler for cm. It is the same in German and French. The ruler is the one who has a vested interest in reductionism.

[@RFC3514]

@@Ludifant - It comes from "regula" as in "a norm" or "a law". The ruler is the person dictating the norms, and a measuring ruler has divisions with a normalized length. It's not really about "reductionism", it's about _regulation._

[@judithlashbrook4684]

Empathy is a superpower!

[@MrIvarlira]

Fantastic👏👏👏👏👏

[@jomuller6683]

the elagabalus mention has immediately gotten horrible histories stuck in my head lol

[@TesterAnimal1]

The original “I’m a lady” reference!

[@chrissscottt]

I admire David's fortitude in withstanding such close proximity to overbearance and patronization.

[@farmersdotter7]

Perhaps they will ask you to sit next to David next time and you can discuss your best selling book.

[@magster6022]

If he sat like that next to her, nobody would notice

[@mamasyaya1]

@@magster6022 I would - although it wouldn't be as noteworthy. I would think, "Here we go again - another insecure, privileged male broadcasting his dominance." It wouldn't reflect well on him, and it doesn't on her, either, even if it is turn-around.

[@mamasyaya1]

That said, I understand her impulse to push back on the status quo.

[@philodonoghue3062]

Matronisation

[@Alfie1970Waterhouse]

Thanks. Great.

[@julianolan2860]

We are now so much better educated, literate in masses as a result of participation in democratic nations. This is such a rich discussion. 💐

[@mitchkroener]

Dr. Beard’s point about the fear engendered by monarchical generosity is very astute and well born out well beyond her era. Thomas Cromwell was created Earl of Essex only months before Henry had him tried and executed for treason-seemingly for essentially no reason. Solzhenitsyn talks about this a lot with Stalin as well. Both of those rulers seemed to have been more or less psychopaths, but the larger point seems to hold.

[@eskylent7962]

Now I want to hear Mary Beard & a Chinese Dynasty expert !

[@Ludifant]

27:18 Such subtility as David Mitchel gently applies his superpower: eloquently using somebody's logic against themselves in a kind of mental aikido. He brings up the red hot poker, she takes the bait. I don't think even he realised where he was headed at that point. Just brought up something irksome out of slight irritation. Then see how it plays out as he sees the pattern and starts with: "what I love about your book..." and then proceeds to point out how she didn't follow through on her own point, that he loved so much he couldn't help but notice it.. And she apparantly buys it.. even admitting that's what she should have done.. which is another masterful move. If you admit flaws when attacked, it is rather hard for the other to gain purchase. Their most potent ammunition is pointing out something you are apparently not aware of. But I feel... if David was more of a pitbull, this was the time the underbelly was exposed. I feel he just chose differently. And after that, the interaction is way more civil, collaborative. David bared his teeth in this most covert warning shot in the history of conflict and allowed her to save face and just apply herself to being civil. Finding and forcing the win-win after being pummeled for twenty minutes. Quite remarkable and beautiful battle of two mental kung fu masters.. point to Mitchel here.

[@mc6354]

Indeed!!!❤

[@Pat_Springleaf]

okay

[@maxsecrest]

I am surprised how much I disagree with Mary Beard on some things. The idea that it's all just subjective about middle ages art being not as good as ancient art is nonsense. David is absolutely correct the depictions of humans in Roman times is far more anatomically accurate than what came later.

[@Poecilia1963]

Agreed. That's the point I'm at in watching, and it irritated me so much I paused to look at the comments. I thought her glib and not very thoughtful. Also, I listen nearly nightly (for sleep purposes!) to various history audiobooks, and those which cover the reaction of the locals to the departure of the Romans seem to align with David's points about that period.

[@norbitcleaverhook5040]

Yeah. She was arguing for the sake of arguing and she clearly feels insecure about something. My guess, she is worried that BBC will choose David for the host of their next history documentary rather than her, so she was trying to knock him down a bit. It was quite strange.

[@nimraha.5064]

And then to say "You think that because you are brainwashed." Such a turnoff.

[@mitchkroener]

How can it be that we’re 5 months on and there hasn’t been a TV show commissioned yet with them as cohosts?

[@mandiebarkhuizen9103]

What an amazing duo!!!!

[@josepholesco2061]

Imelda Marcos is still alive. The shoes were discovered when her husband was overthrown in a popular uprising.

[@j.t492]

I wonder how much of Harold's good press was more recent English nationalism. He was the last Anglo Saxon king, he marched all the way to defeat Harald Hardrada, and then march back and only lost Hastings because he was tired. I'd be interested to see how much positive information Victorians brought to light about Harold around the same time as Alfred the Great and Boudica.

[@MLightstone]

This. All of this, all day, every day. Lock them in a room and refuse them food unless they have interesting conversations.

[@andreaholcock8992]

Like Fritzl

[@debbielondon1809]

Those Roman heads are extraordinarily human with very distinct personalities. I would guarantee that if you put them into a computer you could get very modern faces, not dissimilar to today's men of power.

[@richardmiranda640]

Well done well done old boy well played

[@hunrahel]

@39:58 - A lot of america's licence plates are produced by prison labor (the major exception to prohibition on slavery). That could be a feature of an exhibit exploring contemporary views of slave-produced goods. But, is the british museum really presenting socially conscious questions these days, given that the first one from anyone on the internet is "how much of this stuff is stolen, and displayed against the wishes of the original culture"?

[@yvonnelas2969]

Apart from prisoners there are still actual slaves who quite possibly made our clothes, shoes and phones. Perhaps we could all carry socially conscious labels.

[@Cmdtheartist]

I'm watching everything that these two do. Even before any new Warhammer news. Yeah, even that.

[@rianaangwin3179]

I’m surprised that Mary said that Imelda Marcos was dead and her shoes were found after her death and never counted when not only were they were counted and still exist in the Philippines but Imelda is as I’m writing still alive and living as the mother of the current president of the Philippines in Manila

[@TheRealRobertG]

1:03:55 this is the sort of pedantry that I think made David Mitchell the man he is today

[@ThisIsRiky]

Is it just me or is there an enormous amount of conjecture from Mary, wrapped in slow toned patronising confidence

[@SanRS]

She was fucking awful through this entire thing, yes.

[@foroparapente]

Confidence from women does make us insecure, yes

[@SanRS]

@@foroparapente pompous rambling and stubborn attempts at pointless jokes isn't very enjoyable to listen to, doesn't matter what restroom the source uses

[@foroparapente]

@@SanRS Yet both david and mary joke that way but guess who gets the comment. I am amazed that a light mix of history and humour can still piss off some miserable idiots who take the time to come and make salty comments about it. I guess this is another sign of anti-intellectualism.

[@SanRS]

@@foroparapente two brilliant people talking about something interesting is better if one of them doesn't behave like Stephen Frys character in the Hobbit, the only anti-intellectualism is you thinking anyone gives a shit about which gender that person is

[@loricharlesworth3200]

that sofa was a bit too small

[@tonyantoniou9271]

David compliments Mary with an actual beard. More please.

[@DavidChristieCareerCafe]

Unfortunately the sound system was inadequate and I could not make out the bulk of the conversation.

[@garythomas1260]

stop whining..

[@DusanPavlicek78]

Strange. I'm not even a native speaker and I understood everything. Maybe try listening with headphones?

[@teamshaboobalu2887]

After becoming an Ancient Roman Historian, nothing phasing me anymore lol.

[@Planet432]

You should See what Dr David Aamon Hillman thinks about the quality of Mary Beards Greek history acumen!

[@noway9081]

She's the better historian, he's the better comedian. Perfect combo 🎉

[@secondhand8950]

Love you Mary I think both are great 😊

[@craigmore3433]

Great conversation. Mary Beard is very entertaining. They obviously enjoy each others company.

[@Hip_Hip_Hipporay]

Are you sane? David was uncomfortable and irritated by her constant condescension and pontificating. I hope you have Asperger's or something other wise you are way off on social relations.

[@norbitcleaverhook5040]

I don't know how you could miss the obvious tension and Mary constantly interrupting, disagreeing and being patronizing while David de-escalated constantly.

[@nimraha.5064]

I didn't get that impression at all.

[@CthulhuInc]

they obviously did not

[@TheSuzberry]

I’m here for Mary. DM is a delightful comedian but Mary is the expert.

[@billythedog-309]

Except when it comes to art.

[@TheSuzberry]

@@billythedog-309 - 😉 but which art? I think I remember a program on busts of the Caesars.

[@TesterAnimal1]

Not on medieval Britain.

[@billythedog-309]

@@TheSuzberry And? She is arguing that people can only recognise realistic depictions of human beings because we are taught to do so. David Mitchell doesn't believe that and neither do l.

[@RFC3514]

"The expert" on what? She literally admitted that she had no idea which medieval British king had ruled when. This isn't a lecture just on Roman emperors.

[@nibbleniks2320]

Reading "Unruly" currently and David's asks why or how can people create such realistic sculptures, build extraordinary buildings, even the Beaker people's metal work yet the drawings of the middle ages are so distorted? Could it have been something to do with religion and the commandments? Iconography?

[@Anna_M_T]

They look very uncomfortable on that tiny sofa

[@jasonhare8540]

Pub quiz dream team right there ....

[@treborretsnom6186]

Top shelf 🫡

[@minui8758]

I think I think about Rome so much because they built my city so walking down the street is to be reminded

[@norbitcleaverhook5040]

No, that's not why. Mary Beard explained it already. It's because you are an insecure man who is fantasizing about living in a Macho man world. She has spoken.

[@Pat_Springleaf]

have you guys heard of 1080p though

[@Aussie00]

I was a big Mary Beard fan until watching this.

[@aboukirman3508]

I'm sure she doesn't give a flying F!!!😂

[@educatekar]

The near echoing of the speakers in the recording and their proximity on the couch was distracting to understanding the superb content. I’m surprised that Professor Beard isn’t more professional in her appearance and mannerisms.

[@stevesingkofer8879]

Without having watched the video (yet), and thus only having seen the thumbnail image, my first thought was, "Jaysus, Victoria sure has aged!"

[@WalterBurton]

Mary talks about the kingship being a sort of spine for England to rally around at ~49:00. There's a deep wisdom to this, from a sociological perspective. After all, that's what we're really talking about: managing loads of people and tons of resources. First God died (still feeling the ramifications of that), and then the USSR died. We've truly gone "wobbly." Better to have focus. But finding that new focus is like defusing a bomb on an 80s TV show, or playing Operation. I hope we all get through the coming battle between this axis of as---. At any rate, mercy buckets. :-)

[@greglynch391]

Oh, well! That’s all Ancient History now…

[@bradleyheck7204]

"Self-harm or debauchery? Could you possibly narrow it down and be more specific? We ARE dealing with an awful lot of fiends and perverts, here."

[@lolakauffmann]

But Britains LOST previous knowledge & technology during the time with advanced roman culture and when Rome went Brits had forgotten even how to build & use the pottery wheel - there was a serious dark age happening! Rome had influenced british everyday life, trade & means of production, but not advanced the actual populace to be able to continue the administration, culture & industry - at least that's what I learnt!?

[@nimraha.5064]

I am about halfway through and the more I watch, the more I am disliking this Mary Beard. I did not know her before starting this video. She comes across as very learned but not at all wise. This in my opinion, especially when combined with great arrogance as it seems to be in this case, is a very bad combination. It is also dangerous because such get away with spreading a lot of misinformation about because people think, "This person is an expert on this topic, they must be right." I did a scroll through the comments and a lot of people seem to be praising her, which I find so surprising and maybe I am missing something so I will watch the full video, but so far I am not getting much out of it. Look at her telling David that he is brainwashed because he thought the ancient Romans had a better handle on art than the monks in the middle ages. And then her rather extreme reaction to him saying "people are basically alike". She seems to have written a few books, but I personally seriously doubt how good they can be given they are written by a person who doesn't even have a good handle on human nature.

[@kingmaker2865]

I'm still waiting for business secrets of the pharos

[@CthulhuInc]

these two do not work together.

[@noahpalmer6653]

Exactly what I'm thinking. Those that are commenting otherwise don't seem to have watched or already had too much affection for Mary. She constantly interrupted David and intellectually belittled him. The problem was, she'd then make a pretty obvious point or even an unintelligent one whilst acting as if she'd just bestowed some sort of profound knowledge on everyone present. It's a shame because David clearly wanted to do the interview with her. I get that he's not as well versed in history as Beard but for someone that seemingly lacked knowledge of Anglo-Saxon Britain she really did think she knew everything. That's one of the main things that didn't work. They both only had a contextual or kind of well informed understanding of each others preferred time period. The difference was David was willing to listen to Mary on Rome and she wasn't prepared to cede him authority on the English side.

[@bigem8431]

Well, I adore Mary 😊

[@AmyThePuddytat]

I lost a lot of respect for Beard after watching this. The first part of this was an extended passive-aggressive tantrum by her for being used by a non-historian to lend respectability to his history book. She kept on trying to belittle or embarrass him. His body language was respectful whilst she waved her hands in his face.

[@junewells126]

completely agree with you. The woman was irritating and patronising.

[@piketrekfsdf209]

Poor David Mitchell, he knew he couldn't be antagonistic back to this old woman Mary Beard. If it were a man he'd be more free. Weird situation. Mary was saying interesting stuff sorta.

[@murphybartle592]

The tiny coach made this comical