Running Shoe Foams Explained: PEBA, EVA, TPU, TPE, Supercritical

[@douglassheridan1988]

This was a pretty basic review of the industry's foams. it cover some of the types of polymer, but the processing of the foams matters greatly. There is not a performance shoe on the market that would be simply EVA anymore, they are blended with other polymers as you mentioned, usually w/PU's but also see POE and other polymers added to tune the foam. The nitrogen gas enhancement of foams is more about it being expanded without fillers which can affect the foams performances so Super Critical is an elite product. Yet the various polymers react differently in SC processing, so that is a factor. The Beaded TPU is also very different depending upon the production processing utilised and the scale of the bead is also affecting performance. The mention of PEBA foams has become a buzz word, but it not really factual. Arkena France has various Pebax foams, some bio enhanced, as well as PA's and Nylons which can alter the shoes performance significantly as the processing method. So good brief review, could use more in-depth understanding of the current polymers and processing..

[@jimjurek7911]

Peba is just the hot marketing term eh? The confusion about polymers and actual midsole characteristics is almost as bad as the people that think the stiffness of the carbon plate is what makes the supershoes so special and not the midsole compounds, geometries, and the synergy between all of the above.

[@simonmetais3846]

@@jimjurek7911 Based on the following article the tradename seems to be PEBAX® and PEBA the material name. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyether_block_amide?wprov=sfla1

[@jimjurek7911]

@@simonmetais3846 yep

[@simonmetais3846]

@@jimjurek7911 Clearing out a little bit the confusion you were talking about 🙂. You were right, the amount of people who believe that running shoe midsoles construction is as easy as ABC, and that you just have to "throw in there" a stiff plate to make it propulsive, is huge. This, when they actually don't have a clue of how it's made per lack of knowledge…seek the error ! Also, a big problem in how most people approach the subject of how running shoes technologies work, is not making the connection with the human anatomy. I think this is an important omission in trying to understand the subject.

[@therunophil]

interesting topic, one thing to add could be the differences in resilience, often called energy return, a key reason for Boost at the time or PEBA today. My understanding of the term TPE is broader, I thing basically all foams, incl. EVA, are a thermoplastic elastomer, so I would not use it as its own category next to EVA, PEBA etc.

[@supwell]

Great call out on energy return! A lot of the studies show it's the energy return from PEBA rather than the carbon fiber plate that gives the efficiency benefits of a Vaporfly or Endorphin Pro 3. Which is why plated supercritical EVA shoes like the first Hoka Rocket X don't provide the same performance gains

[@jonb9194]

@@supwell I think I read the same opinions about what is the source of the performance gains from carbon plated supershoes. I'm sort of dubious that the foam or carbon plate actually provide much propulsion force. I'm of the opinion that the carbon plate enables the rocker geometry, which possibly provides encouragement for the runner to perform more efficient mechanics. I would say the gains break down to 7% foam, 8% carbon plate propulsion, 85% from improved runner mechanics.

[@supwell]

@@jonb9194 really interesting thought, and I don't think much if any research at all has been done into the effect of the rocker on efficiency. I'd love to see that explored more

[@jonb9194]

@@supwell I think it would be easy to measure some mechanical metrics in first time carbon plate runners on the treadmill vs their regular non-plated shoes. Perhaps we can finally put to rest the paradoxical ideas of many people that ground time should be minimized as well as vertical oscillation minimized. The two basically have an inverse relationship, since all runners follow the same ballistic trajectory during the flight phase. Plus, unless you are a soccer player, people are extremely unstrong in their hip flexors relative to the demands of running, so any strengthening has almost immediate benefits.

[@runawayshoesgreenbay4155]

@@jonb9194 when Nike created the 4%, the studies afterwards found the 4% basically broke down to 1% plate, 1% geometry, 2% foam. But I would definitely say there is a huge difference in propulsion between a traditional EVA like the Ghost and a PEBA like the Endorphin Pro.

[@jimjurek7911]

Peba is a TPE... puma and altra call their peba foam a TPE. Asics used to call their peba a nylon. Lightstrike Pro is a TPEE, a thermopolyester elastomer, not a TPE. You can also make peba into a hard plastic plate... just calling something a peba doesn't mean much in terms of midsole cherecteristics. Great marketing, though.

[@iakona23]

I use a peba based insole from my Innov8 trail running shoes called “Boomerang Footbed”. You can buy them separately from their shoes. I can actually put them in a pair of Vivobarefoot Primus shoes and it makes for a very flexible yet somewhat cushioned running experience.

[@Eduardo_Espinoza]

Thank you for having a physical example of each shoe, it helped for us visual learners :)

[@TroySpringer11]

as a bigger guy I’m all about the Lightstrike Pro

[@supwell]

Yeah that bounce is unmatched

[@benjaminzaoui9683]

Lightstrike Pro strikes a great balance between responsiveness, cushioning, and incredible durability, but as "a bigger guy" you would probably enjoy and benefit from a softer, more foregiving midsole material such as a New Balance Fuel Cell or Nike ZoomX.

[@jimjurek7911]

​@benjaminzaoui9683 why? A bigger guy would just pack them out

[@tacticalcenter8658]

I noticed some foam will not last long on heavy people. They will eventually compress and stay compressed. I need a foam that will still keep its original form for heavy people for a long time. What are my options?

[@tashriquekarriem8865]

What type of foam is new balance fuel cell?

[@supwell]

it's a supercritical TPU and EVA blend

[@galva]

Fuelcell is a product line within which New Balance used different foams. For example, the 2024 FC line-up uses 100% Peba (Supercomp Elite V4), a blend of 20% PEBA with EVA (Rebel V4).

[@garyhaber6957]

Great explanation bro 😊

[@fit.panda9813]

Is ffblast turbo better than lightstrike pro and zoomx

[@tuckersaylor4002]

In all honesty they’re all preference ffblast to me is extremely firm but still comfortable lightstrike pro is in the middle and zoomx is really cushy and bouncy

[@tacticalcenter8658]

They now have FFturbo plus

[@danielaliaga4800]

Nitrous oxide injected gas like puma nitro and Adidas lightstrike pro

[@SonLe-fp1cs]

Peba is expensive and difficult to be processed and unbalanced

[@gpersonaltrainer]

I run (no pun intended) a lot of tests at the running track to understand how quickly are carbon plated shoes with PEBA, compared to EVA shoes. So far, Puma Deviate Nitro Elite with it's Nitro Infused PEBA is the fastest. When I tested these shoes I could not believe that for £76 (that what's I paid), I could run in a pair of super fast carbon plated shoes. One of my client shaved 20min from his marathon time. There is just one thing that put me off. After 100 miles perfornances dropped suddenly. I've run another test, comparing them to the Saucony Endorphin Pro 3 and I've found out that the Puma lost 5 sec per km, while the Saucony 3.5 sec. At the end of the day, you get what you've paid for. Videos are available in my channel.

[@klipk7296]

I don't really get the the hype with peba foam. I have the endorphin speed 3 and it just feels like a squishy unstable mess under foot. Just walking slowly will have me feeling like I will fall over sideways

[@Nyelands]

That's the idea.

[@Caxel108]

It's meant to propel you forward, storing kinetic energy to give you it back to help you run, but if you're unstable in the horizontal plane then you might need help with stability.

[@tacticalcenter8658]

Some brands are now layering different types of foam. Having a softer foam above and a harder foam below or something like that. Sometimes a plate in the middle.

[@simonmetais3846]

The perfect example of how to ruin a great content video with a poor audio irritating the ears. What a pity ! 😢

[@supwell]

Lol and if you look at my recent videos it's a great example of how to make consistent progress over time and not let little things like perfect audio quality get in the way of improvement and growth

[@shenidan2023]

Good video but please get rid of that cap. Especially worn like that is the opposite of anything remotely cool or street. Or try it without a shirt like that. Something more casual. One you start looking at the hair poking through and the side strap it takes away focus from everything else.

[@Vid_Master]

I vote that he should keep wearing the cap

[@danielaliaga4800]

I like zoomx, the new reactx in the new infinity run 4 i just got and boost is still life as is lightstrike pro and of course ff blast + and fuelcell NB

[@supwell]

All great foams! Glad to hear the new ReactX is working out well