Can Neuro-Imaging Be Used for Diagnosing ADHD?

[@aybikeanacali8414]

It would be super helpful for the high IQ/late diagnosis group. Many of us struggle to accept if we *really* have ADHD or not. What if we're just lazy and cheating both ourselves and the doctors? Also, other people think we're just using ADHD as an excuse and don't believe we really have it because we're smart. Please make a video about this group of ADHD.

[@MelusMay-tn6zs]

ADHD doesn’t mean you’re not intelligent

[@lordsidious2186]

That's exactly what I was thinking as well. I got diagnosed a little over two month ago at the age of now 33.

[@entelin]

It's worth it I think to consider that a "lazy person" may be "lazy" because of an underlying condition or set of circumstances. Most people don't "choose" to be lazy, certainly not over decades. I just feel that these general descriptive terms that we are accustomed to using, shouldn't be a vehicle for ending an inquiry. Terms like this, from a scientific perspective, really can only be taken as a simple description or single symptom and often not even so much as that. There's a thought experiment I encountered once, (and I'm not going to recite it perfectly); imagine a guy goes out and murders a bunch of people and then kills himself. One might say, he's evil, he's this or that negative thing. Only an evil person would decide to indiscriminately kill people after all. In his pocket they find a note that says something along the lines "I know this is wrong, I think there's something wrong with me, please look at my brain once I'm dead". So they do so, and they find cancer. Was the person "evil"? Did the description of "evil" do anything to address the actual cause of the actions? Was this action the persons fault or the fault of the cancer? Certainly we can be somewhat more sympathetic since we now know his brain was at the very least, not functioning correctly. But does a properly functioning brain have any greater free will? If you're "lazy" is that your "fault"? or is it simply that free will is always an illusion, and we are just following our programming for better or worse, however sophisticated that may be. At the end of the day, what constitutes a mental health condition is fairly arbitrary. So I think the key thing is, go get a diagnosis, be objective and honest, you would know if you were outright lieing, so don't do that. If it turns out you have it, then according to the DSM, you would fall in to the *category* of adhd, which itself has plenty of symptom diversity. So at that point you can start trying the various treatments, both medication and not, and see if that helps. Mental health in general, is just simply not as clear cut yet as some other medical professions, there's no way someone can yet do the equivalent of saying you have such and such specific type of infection and here's the cure. It's a process, often a nebulous one.

[@thyagu.udayakumar]

Yes, we need an objective diagnostic test. Cognitive disorders are amongst the lowest priority issues (along with war, poverty, economic imbalance, etc.) in humanity's to-do list.

[@imthinkingthoughts]

My experience is it's actually quite clear for individuals to tell if they have the requisite symptoms for an ADHD diagnosis. However, as you mention, acceptance is another thing entirely. Another commenter mentioned that Lazy may actually be caused by an underlying condition. I'd take it a step further, as the commenters quotation marks suggest, that the idea of "Lazy" can essentially be the same construct as "ADHD" just with two different explanations of the behaviour. Lazy = someone making the active choice to not do something when they or the observer believes they should be doing something. ADHD = neurodevelopmental condition that impairs action orientated behaviour and executive function through. These two explanations are essentially two levels of analysis. The first (lazy) is based on the perception that people are in-control of their choices; someone chooses to not do something. Whereas the second (ADHD) is based on the idea that brains function differently and that actions are the consequence of neural firing, structure, and blood flow

[@TheSimoné88]

Thank you for this video. It's interesting that such small differences are found on scans and yet the lived experience of ADHD feels like a huge difference to neurotypicals.

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

See anove

[@piotr780]

difference between genome of humans and chimps is also small

[@HyperFocusMarshmallow]

It's probably worth stating that just because these scans do not currently pick up signals that in general would discriminate between someone having ADHD and someone who does not, that does not imply that there aren't big differences going on in the brain. These scans simply do not pick up everything. A simple analogy that comes mind is taking a photo of someone from very far away. If the whole face of the person is only captured as a single pixel, you probably won't be able to tell what the colours of their eyes are. But that doesn't mean there aren't different eye colours. A question for Dr. Barkley: Do the theoretical models of ADHD make any strong predictions about how much better scanning methods would need to get to discriminate accurately? Essentially, do we have an idea about some scale, time scale and region of the brain where ADHD would be manifest?

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

To me it seems that the imaging of function and functional connectivity as the resolution improves will find much greater differences that might then work for individual diagnosis. The differences shown in tensor diffusion in white matter are much greater than regional MRI and so that may have more promise eventually for clinical use. I like your comment above. For instance, patients with early dementia known as mild cognitive impairment have significant problems with daily functioning yet scans can not yet pick up the brain changes until the cognitive deficits become even greater. Small changes in brain can have large behavioral effects, in essence. Be well.

[@Herfinnur]

Oooh, I'm looking forward to this video! Timestamps: 0:00 intro 0:39 Avast! 5:57 what the scans look like 10:04 Functional connectivity fMRI 10:53 So why can't it be used for a clinical diagnosis? 15:20 WARNING: false claims from private clinics 16:06 the future

[@samtumilty2348]

You're literally uploading daily. Daily Do you how big a deal that is for a KZbin channel.That is a real achievement genuinely, (most KZbinrs struggle to do it, even when when the channel is their only job. and despite this, everything you're putting out is really insightful and engaging And it's all OC! Like what on earth was this video omg, 😵‍💫 it sounds like something from a sci-fi film Anyhow, wrapping this all up Ive seen many, many wholesome comments thankin you for the things you've done tin the Past, and how they helped someone make sense of it all 3 years ago, about the Past, how your content helped them learn and take control of their lives. But in the present day... with this upload schedule, you're gonna get seen, and your KZbin channel is going to help people in the Future find themselves and get control of their undiagnosed ADHD So here's a toast to the future of your channel 🍺 and all the good it's going to do :) Keep smashing it Dr B 🤙☠️🦜 You rock 🪨

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

Thank you. I have plenty of content because the science is coming out daily.

[@Elspm]

I'd be really interested to see a study which compared brain scans of women in their menstrual cycle, comparing ADHD against general population. Probably not practicable but the severity of my symptoms varies so wildly over my cycle, and I do wonder if that would be observable with neuro-imaging.

[@allthewayfrom]

This would be cool to see.

[@obgfoster]

Taking loestrin/minastrin for adenomyoma really helped me! Then when I stopped at age 60 my life got crazy messed up. At 62 I started taking Concerta and got balanced again.

[@JessRChambers]

What a great question! I relate to this as well.

[@jurinato]

Brilliant - exactly what I was looking for regarding SPECT scams. I mean scans. Appreciate your academic rigor, Dr. Barkley.

[@kellyalsaleh3032]

If I was about to get my brain scanned I'd be super excited and very focussed and attentive!

[@inFAMOUSBlastshards]

I wish diagnostic neuro-imaging was legit because people still don't believe ADHD is a real disability and that it can be quite debilitating. Maybe someday it will become a reality with advances in technology.

[@georgejost9151]

His argument is a strawman; imaging techniques focus on brain activity and not so much brain structure. Multiple peer reviewed studies show patterns The conclusion of the average paper is typically that there are patterns but more research data is needed. He is extremely arrogant.

[@puppypoet]

You're such a cool guy. You really kick butt with your humor, your caring about us crazies, and how good you are at explaining stuff.

[@OurgasmComrade]

I'd be interested in hearing Dr. Amen's response to this as he has dozens of ADHD clinics based on neuroimaging for a hefty premium fee.

[@JeaneneHoward]

Did Amen say he "cured" someone of ADHD? it's interesting that he apparently shows quite marked differences in brain scans between ADHD and neurotypical brains, but says he can "heal" ADHD. maybe that's just terminology, and would be a huge discussion, but iI feel uncomfortable about it. There are treatments to assist people to "deal" with the symptoms of ADHD. I'm sure different neural pathways can be developed. That's still not curing the physical brain difference. Would he be able to "heal" Alzheimers?

[@Stoicsaiyan]

@@JeaneneHowardwe don’t have the technology and knowledge to cure adhd yet. But I do hope in the future we do (I have it sucks) the only possible way someone can “cure” it is through genetics possibly gene editing. Which many people and recent studies and research on trying to discover the roots of adhd say it’s genetic and the newer recent studies used crispr to conduct these studies. Like there was one using zebra fish and genes that made them more hyperactive and distracted. Try all used crispr. In the end of the research article ehr said “these new discovery we’ll open doors for better treatment” possibly crispr. But ofc we need more research for it and ethical reasons behind it

[@BenRichterSLP]

Another invaluable video. Thanks Dr Barkley! If you have a moment I’d love to hear your thoughts on an open question about language in ADHD. In the last third of the discussion section of a 2017 research review (Korrel et al; Research Review: Language Problems in Children with ADHD - a systematic meta-analytic review), the authors state that a comprehensive neuroimaging study is needed that focuses on the language centers in ADHD children. They argue this would help answer the question of whether common language impairments in ADHD are caused by neurodevelopmental deficits to language centers (Broca’s, Wernicke’s, Heschl’s gyrus, etc, + relevant white matter tracts), or whether language impairments are only a secondary effect of underlying EF deficits such as working memory and sustained attention? We know the secondary impact is at least an important contributing factor. Whether language centers are impaired developmentally could inform whether interventions should target EF or speech/language. Do you agree that this question remains unresolved (language impairments a primary or secondary feature of ADHD)? If so, thoughts on what type of neuroimaging could be most appropriate for such a study?

[@DavidGonzalezSamudio]

Hi Dr. Barkley! I appreciate all your effort and devotion to knowledge. What are your views on accommodations for ADHD (or Executive Function siblings like ASD) adults during graduate studies? ADA and inclusion often need updated guidelines to help neurodivergents succeed. Yet, the parties involved have an heterogenous scientific understanding of what helps and what does not.

[@kl-ue6zl]

Dr. Barkley! Thank you so much this video is exactly what I was looking for! I have been asking this question and you are the first to give an answer with an explanation! I also appreciate greatly your work and advocacy to expand knowledge and understanding of this disorder that is indeed non-fiction and not just an excuse for poor behavior. People with ADHD can be more tenacious than their peers and still not get anywhere, and neurotypical people see them as just a "screw up". Story of my life- because it's not a visible condition like a broken leg or Down's Syndrome, people assume one just wants an easy way out. No. I just want to be normal and I try so hard it is exhausting. Why would I CHOOSE to not get the passing of time in my head, resulting in great stress, day after day, despite the notes, alarms, medication, etc. Yeah if I could just fix that and be timely, that would be great 👌

[@rosedervis]

Came across you on TikTok found you on KZbin have subscribed to your channel. Very useful information as always & I look forward to future videos where I can learn more on the subject and help my adhd son. Thank you for your teachings and God bless 🙏

[@1966Svea]

Thank you very much for giving so profound information. In my work this is so much needed.

[@ramenjd6239]

Thank you Dr. Barkle for your video. From your video essay, it seems like Diffusion Tensor and fMRI scan have the most potential for ADHD diagnosis in the future? I'm a Computer Engineering graduate student, and I want my future study to be focusing on using deep learning algorithms to analyze neuroimaging on ADHD. I'm trying to find which neuroimaging technique would be the best to study and improve

[@fizbanpernegelf5363]

Thanks for this channel and explaining in such a clean and neat way the science of this disorder :). I really appreciate it and it helps me a lot explaining my own symptoms and how to deal with them to family, friends and partner. Also your content helps me relaxing with taking medication regularly and not feeling bad for needing it :). This video is a great example on how well you explain the statistics part. Guess this concept of a statisic vs the individual can be hard to grasp and I wonder how many people have an idea what a Bell curve is if they don't have a science background.

[@feyseel]

Keep up the good work dr Barkley!

[@Alex-js5lg]

Very informative! I appreciated how you explained why this imaging is useful in aggregate but isn't individually diagnostic. I do wonder what role AI will play in this. I'm not sure if it's actually been rolled out yet, but there is/was supposed to be a public release of an AI program that can identify sex, smoking status, approximate age, and whether a patient is diabetic based on retinal scans. I wonder what - if any - patterns they might pick up on that we've missed in neural imaging.

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

Not to my knowledge. But it might just work.

[@publius9350]

So, what I know is years old at this point but there was impressive results for AI interpreting radiographs of the lungs to detect cancer, but there was some concern that as it switched from one hospital to another the accuracy would not hold. The large data sets the AI needs will likely come from some place like China where there is both a huge population and patient privacy rights are not a thing.

[@crystalsimpson6324]

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE? I want to thank you for your contribution to the research and education of ADHD. Your no-nonsense, and to the point explanation and recommendations answer almost every question I have had about the behaviors I thought accompanied those in my family with ADHD. If I only knew 55 years ago that they were ADHD..... Anyway, my question is alrhough a scan can't diagnose ADHD Could a Functional Connectivity MRI pin point Executive functioning deficits?

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

Thanks for your kind comments on the value of my work to you. It is very much appreciated. So far functional connectivity scans have been very helpful in research comparing groups but that means little about their value in diagnosing individuals. I am hopeful that either that type of scan or one looking at white matter connectivity will prove more accurate for classifying cases. But we are not there quite yet. Be well.

[@allthewayfrom]

Thanks so much, Dr. Barkley. This information will save me time, energy, and money. Sadly there are counselors/therapists who use Amen’s seven types.

[@lambs5258]

incredible video and great information, as always. So grateful for this channel!!

[@OrafuDa]

Thank you very much, again, Dr. Barkley, for this helpful account on what brain imaging can and cannot do with respect to ADHD research and diagnosis. I wonder if you could say something about HDFT, high definition fiber tracking. My understanding is that it is a higher-resolution version of DTI - diffusion tensor imaging, albeit working somewhat differently. Developed at the University of Pittsburgh and CMU (based on ideas from a team in Taiwan), it is used to find fiber trajectories in the connective brain tissues, and to spot interrupted fibers due to brain injuries. It has also been used to map differences in connective tissues in people on the autistic spectrum. I am not aware of any uses for ADHD, so far, though. But maybe you could speak a bit about this? Does it have any value in ADHD research, or maybe even diagnosis, due to its higher resolution? Btw, I believe that this is an expensive technology, so maybe it is only available at the University of Pittsburgh, so far? Also, it seems difficult to find information about any potential improvements to spatial and temporal resolutions of brain scans that may be on the horizon. Is there anyone who could speak about this? Thank you again.

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

I have not seen this technology used in any ADHD research to date. As you say, it may be limited to use at Pittsburgh. Until it is used with ADHD I likely won’t discuss it here. One of the best neuroimagers is C. Xavier Castellanos, MD at NYU Medical School. You could write to him there. Be well.

[@KilgoreTroutAsf]

10:53 There is a more fundamental point to be made here, which is that ADHD is a behavioral problem, not a physiological one. If somebody showed all the symptoms of ADHD and the brain scans DIDN'T show anything unusual, they would STILL need treatment. And vice versa: if someone showed all the signs of ADHD in the scan and none of the problematic behaviors, they would NOT need treatment. What that would mean is that we were wrong about the causes of the condition in the first place. Same can be said about depression, schizophrenia, autism and every other psychiatric and neurodevelopmental condition. Reducing a diagnosis to one scan or test implies we know a lot more about the human body and brain, their variation, and the mechanisms of a disorder than we actually do.

[@nikeessemz7111]

Dr. Barkley, is it weird if: 1) I agree with your explanation, especialy when comparing singular modalities, but 2) have seen neuroimaging research from Dr. Tim Silk et al from Deakin university showing a multi-modal neuroimaging model having significant predictive validity, even on a data set falling outside of the study. Am I missing something in my understanding here? Thank you so much for your work, and for making these videos Dr. Barkley 🙏

[@PlanesKiwi]

Thanks for addressing this.

[@elevul]

Are there other neurological diseases where such small differences have such a heavy impact on an individual's life? I fear that the statement brought by this video indicating that neurological differences between individuals with or without ADHD are too small to be identified without averaging over a group could easily be misconstructed by laymen as there being no disease at all.

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

While the differences in brain volumes are small and hard to see visually in just one persons scan, the techniques that give greater resolution and that evaluation white matter connectivity and its functioning are showing larger problems. I think that is telling us that the problems are with connectivity, functioning, and the variability of that functioning rather than an issue of simple brain or region volume alone. I am optimistic that a time will come when some imaging method will be clinically useful but we are not there yet.

[@tariq3erwa]

16:10 I think that furthermore to those imaging devices becoming better, in order for them to be viable methods of diagnosis, theories of the brain need to become more accurate, and by accurate I mean empirically viable mathematical models that could explain those group differences. So I believe DTI + Topology from math should do it. Future clinicians will have to use a computer to analyze the data and extract useful parameters or graphs that should tell the differences.

[@elkisa6223]

How about brain mapping and Neurofeedback ..?

[@reap2win]

Developments on structure vs. function… MRI resonance (structure)vs. pet scan ( minor radiation tracking),,, reanalyzing of MRI (and water movement), connectivity/ activating in function … diffusion tenor shows regional … Dr. Amen uses scans (? To identify for 7 types ?)).. functionalMRI.. various groups identified on types of ADHD ? Group comparisons vs. Individual..

[@thyagu.udayakumar]

I think the progress is very slow because research funding is low as the sufferers are a minority. When can we expect a solid objective diagnosis for cognitive disorders? Few decades or few centuries? General public's opinion that these are just 'will-power' issues is infuriating.

[@PVVI2015]

Very interesting! Thank you!

[@doudline2662]

Thank you sir.

[@HowndsOfDoom]

So interesting! So what exactly are clinicians who use neuro imaging diagnosing??? Bit scarey that! Mind you, out of sheer fascination I'd love to have some brain scans, not for my diagnosis but just to see how my brain looks 😊 What are the conditions that are actually diagnosed with scans?

[@reubsyue]

Thank you for this video Dr Barkley! May I ask for your opinion on Functional near infrared spectroscopy (fNIRS)? I understand some clinicians may be using it to complement their assessment of ADHD. Thank you!

[@tiffanysavoie4847]

I am 35. I found out a year ago I have adhd. When I was a child I had a lot of issues. They done brain scans, all kinds of things. Couldn’t find anything wrong with me. But obviously I had something going on 😢

[@tamerofhorses2200]

Hi doctor! My psychiatrist prescribed me with Ritalin after seeing me for 30mins and hearing my symptoms (I believe I have ADHD and all of my symptoms fit pretty stereotypically across the board for all traits of ADHD). He told me instead of making me slog through various different tests with exorbitant costs he would rather prescribe the meds and see how I respond to them. He told me to finish a single pack of Ritalin (roughly 3 weeks supply) and keep in touch with him about the symptoms. After watching your video on JP's claims, wherein you mentioned that the paradoxical reaction was not a criterion for diagnosis, I began doubting the competence of my psychiatrist, however. Is there a cause for concern in my case?

[@dustystarr2297]

I think it's always good to be a little skeptical. I find that psychiatrist are not always "experts" in all the fields they treat. They may not be up to date with the most effective treatments. With that I would just keep checking in with yourself and how the meds are working. Be truthful with yourself and your Dr about how it's going. Don't be afraid of getting a second opinion. Definitely talk about Dr Barkley to your doctors and make sure they are aware of the most current data. Hope this helps. I know I was in denial until I started reaping the benefits of treatment.

[@sonyaparkin7841]

Hehe - love the pirate 🏴‍☠️ 😆😊💛

[@williamanderson8789]

Well shoot. I just forked out $200 bucks for one trying to find help with treatment. This impulsiveness sure can cost. There isn't any legal recourse for those making these types of claims?

[@Stoicsaiyan]

What are your thoughts on potential gene editing

[@Alex-js5lg]

Have you heard of the similar "neurotransmitter testing" services which are presumably as unreliable? Even if the levels they measure are actually accurate, that's not particularly useful information without knowing how the brain uses those neurotransmitters and what their distribution throughout the different parts of the brain is, right?

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

I think that is correct.

[@billcosby9999]

​@@russellbarkleyphd2023What about urinary phenethylamine analysis? I've actually read some research and regard that as the seemingly only real potential Biomarker for ADHD. Thoughts?

[@derekpmoore]

Unless certain imaging providers have proprietary methods that offer more specificity? Corporate medicine isn’t obligated to publish, is it? In computing, industry gets ahead of academia on a regular basis. Dunno if this happens in medicine. PS: Update on my case. Gf is newly diagnosed as Sjogrens. So her legacy ADHD diagnosis may be long-term misdiagnosis of Celiac and Sjogrens.

[@derekpmoore]

Do diagnostic methods need FDA approval or is that just treatment methods?

[@walidsarwary]

I have sever adhd and sluggish cognitive tempo, I am very forgetful now I am very anxious that I might have alzheimer's I am 39 years old , if you give me 5 words to remember I only remember 3 words, doese this happen to anyone else, please reply to my comment . I do remember 3 words or some times 4 words but, not 5 words.

[@walidsarwary]

@BaranKoker yes my working memory is very poor thanks for the kind reply

[@Alex-js5lg]

I can only speak for myself, but I thought I was developing dementia in my mid-twenties because I couldn't do math in my head anymore, I would lose my train of thought mid-sentence probably 40+ times a day, and I couldn't make it up a set of stairs without forgetting what I was up there for (then going back down, then remembering and going up, then forgetting again but bringing something else down), among other issues. In my case, it turned out to be the result of a handful of different mental health conditions (including ADHD) co-occurring, several of which are known to impair executive function/memory, and all complicated by heavy, chronic use of potent THC oil. Once I began to address these things one at a time, I did notice improvements in my memory. That might be true for you too, but maybe not. What's most important is that you seek help for your memory if it has gotten to that level. A doctor can help identify what the problem is in *your* circumstance (because it could be entirely different than mine), and then they can help you make a plan on how to proceed. Are you able to access a doctor? Or a psychologist?

[@walidsarwary]

@vickiehow- thanks so much for the comment

[@walidsarwary]

@Alex-js5lg thanks so much I really appreciate 🙏 it give me such a relief

[@insidiatori9148]

@@Alex-js5lg Yup, ADHD causes stress, thc reduces stress, our adhd gets worse, we get fucked. I am so glad I was able to quit. First psychologically then physically. I did it using microdoses of magic truffles and lots of yoga tea. Never quit that easily. How about you?

[@billcosby9999]

What about urinary phenethylamine analysis? I've actually read some research and regard that as the seemingly only real potential Biomarker for ADHD. Thoughts?

[@RenoirB]

So the differences aren’t obvious and stark enough. Also probably because EF deficit can be caused by different causes then. I was wondering about why imaging wasn’t used yet. According to the researcher in the following TED talk Lifelong Behavior problems may sometimes be explained by neuro imaging, but maybe because it has costs, and clinicians and hospitals can't just spend (machinery maintenance) for every cases. Québec (Canada) health regime is covering a lot. We get free healthcare, but the boundaries is about making sure people aren't suicidal. It must be a hard job to have to diagnose without doing every tests. In case.

[@carloscontreras3633]

Well, I guess the future is now.

[@octopiinthesky44]

What do you think about the research about tDCS for adhd, as a possible future treatment? 😄

[@thibaustralie]

How about fNIRS?

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

It’s been used in about 22 studies, mostly examining the effects of ADHD medications. Since no one I know proposed its use for clinical diagnosis and I haven’t seen it in clinical practice the way SPECT is being used, I didn’t include it. Maybe next time. Thanks for watching. Be well.

[@TheAdhdGardener]

What are your thoughts on Dr. Gabor Mate n his statements on Adhd and trauma? Do you have articles on it? Seems like a connection but what do u say?

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

Hee is wrong. See my comment on trauma in another video.

[@lambs5258]

Dr. Barkley has made a couple videos on the topic, they're on this channel. Gabor Mate's statements are wrong and have no basis in reality. They're actually harmful cause Mate is spreading misinformation about ADHD, as if we don't have enough of that already

[@TheAdhdGardener]

@@lambs5258 I've just seen them. You're right!

[@adultADHDindia]

Would love to hear your opinion on Singapore using fNIR and eye tracking to confirm #adultADHD diagnosis.

[@---Ben---]

With the studies showing differences using these machines, have they been reproduced or is there an issue there?

[@SohailSiadat]

10-25% percent difference in activity is not small. Especially because it can be compared for an individual between tasks and mental and arousal states in various ways. Also individual areas differences are bigger. Besides, there is spatial pattern as well. SPECT is not about a single scalar value for overall brain.

[@reap2win]

Bottom line answer-/ NO!

[@flor.7797]

They use this to read our minds 😳

[@flor.7797]

oh wait that was a different diagnosis 😂😅

[@Not.a.bird.Person]

As someone who studied statistical analysis, I would strongly question the conclusion that the differences between averages are even relevant if the overlap is large enough to discredit the diagnosis of individuals. Overlaps of data clusters are even more relevant than the averages here because averages aren't physical things, averages are cherry-picked data points combined together as an aggregate value. Combining any amount of data from 2 subjectively picked categories on data that doesn't accurately correlate to the 2 is bound to have so much noise to signal ratio that even a difference in averages is meaningless. An analogous scenario would be to have a bunch of boxes of different colors containing either dark chocolate or white chocolate distributed within them by company affiliation of who makes the boxes and chocolates. Categorizing the boxes by color to assess the type of chocolate will give differences in averages with strong overlaps by pure chance without the color of the boxes or of the chocolates even being directly correlated because of the third factor of ''company affiliation'' making some statistically significant clusters of box colors/chocolate colors. The point is we subjectively observe ''behavior'' (box color) and try to determine an ''internal state'' (chocolate color) with a representation of the internal state such as brain scans (analogous to opening the boxes and recording the data for regressions) and the large overlap of data is indicative that the subjective observations of behavior are not directly related but indirectly correlated (by being subjective and not capturing an objective distribution, the observation doesn't capture the true underlying categorization, for the chocolates, the true categorization is the company affiliation that someone can't see, at least in this analogy). A large overlap likely means that psychologists and psychiatrists are so bad at categorizing objective behavior clusters accurately that a bunch of people within and without an objective brain structure cluster were both diagnosed and undiagnosed, meaning it's a game of coin toss as to if a ''professional'' even categorizes behavior properly and objectively. What this specifically tells us is that one should be extremely wary of any diagnosis around ADHD and behavior clusters. What it *doesn't* tell you is that studying averages between diagnosed and undiagnosed people shows the groups are distinct. That would be statistical mumbo jumbo, averages can tell you anything if you make them speak enough because they *aren't* tangible data.

[@meganruddock7574]

Dr my son is very immature for his age. He has been correctly diagnosed with severe add. He has no friends in his grade. I have noticed that he likes playing with younger kids. Will he perhaps benefit from repeating a year at another school to be with peers more emotionally on his level? I am desperate.

[@feyseel]

In another video dr Russel said repeating a year is not good for adhd kids. He talks about the emphasis about learning a professional skillset that that has alot of benefit! Maybe this helps

[@ir4700]

Could it be that the reason neuro-imaging isn't an option is because ADHD is more about difference rather than disorder?

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

It’s about a difference that can lead to a disorder which, as I say in another lecture, is when a difference is enough to cause harm to the individual, or impairment in major life activities. No impairment, no disorder.

[@yorkiedanMC]

So take individual that has been clinically deemed to have ADHD and do the scans.Then scan the brain of the neuro-typical individual and compare the two. If the resulting activity of the ADHD brain is conformally showing the same across the set of people with ADHD then it should be obvious on the scan. If not then that states there isn't a glaring difference between the brain activity of neuro-typical and Neuro divergent brains. I'd say that there is a difference between electrical activity within the brains of people with ADHD, but I don't have the luxury of conducting the large swath of scans on both types of brains to validate what I'm saying.

[@entropy2283]

This should be the ONLY way to determine, if legit. Too many misdiagnoses and fakers for meds.

[@audiolivrobom]

Well, what this video shows is actually that perceived statistical relevance does not translate to real-world relevance. Meaning that these studies on ADHD produce bogus science, nothing else. We are still touching mud in relation to the very classification of what might be ADHD. This is far from one condition only, and it is mostly behavioural. We can't even be certain in saying that these brain differences are causation; they can very much be just the result of brain plasticity responding to environs. Dr. Barkley's effort to make science out of ADHD is respectable, just like every other scientific effort. However, the now-popularized discourse about brain activity and ADHD still needs many decades of refining to become something truly useful to clinicians.

[@mtbdog666]

Can you please state your qualifications to make these statements?

[@jojones4685]

What a strange comment

[@audiolivrobom]

@@mtbdog666 Finishing a PhD in Psych this year. I'm an M.Psych. and a BPsych. I gave you this piece of info despite seeing very little need to put my "credentials" to the test, especially because what I'm saying is talked about in the corridors of every university. The neuropsychological gaze is cute, but definitely not the best explanation for everything psychologically-related. And ADHD still needs a lot of work to be fully conceptualised. Hands-down much better nowadays than 30 years ago, but still a long way to go.

[@Elspm]

I can't agree that statistically significant in a population vs statistically significant enough to use as a diagnostic tool makes the studies "bogus". Much of the point of using statistical significance is to draw out findings which are important but not outwardly distinct. Bogus science would be claiming that this *is* useful for diagnosis.

[@audiolivrobom]

@@Elspm, your point is valid despite interpreting what I said pretty differently from what I originally meant. Most probably because English is not my first language, which is something I unfortunately cannot fix. Anyway, this type of research has internal and possibly some minor external validity. And I stress that I didn't call Dr. Barkley's work bogus. He ardently dedicated his life to making a science of ADHD, which is something I honestly appreciate. Nonetheless, I am sceptical of any ecological validity of work that conceptualises ADHD neurophysiologically in the way it's been done lately. A good enough conceptualisation of ADHD is still to emerge. So, any work discussed in this video is rather preliminary and should be taken as such - despite being presented with a varnish of reality. I consider it "bogus" because it assumes a collection of non-pacified assumptions in its conceptualisation. ... and I was not even talking about "population", which is a complex idea, considering the crisis of replication in psychology.

[@chinh101]

That is very disappointing. Thank you