Internet Addiction, Gaming Disorder & ADHD

[@bopuc]

As someone who's been engaged in the making of Internet-based technologies and such for about 30 years, knowing many people who are professionally involved in the gaming industry, and having myself been diagnosed recently with ADHD, I have to say that these industries are absolutely packed with neuroatypical people… to the extent that I wouldn't be surprised if conditions like ADHD, and ASD directly drive the development of these technologies, as the people in these industries pursue the kinds of experiences that the above mentioned studies identify as disorders and addiction, because they themselves want them (dopamine pursuit through incessant information access, stimulation, etc…) Something to consider.

[@jonr6680]

The corporate spin on this, put the CEOs in jail for peddling addictive software JUST LIKE controlled substances. Well first you need laws to be made, but this toxic capitalism is infantilising all of us, so maybe it SHOULD be a crime.

[@DrProfessorWeed]

@@jonr6680 We've already tried this with prohibition, it doesn't work. Simply outlawing drugs, video games, porn, etc. is not going to fix the problem. In fact, it's likely to make things even worse, as is the case for drugs for example, where we have increasing amounts of drug abuse, despite many of these drugs being illegal or highly regulated. That's not even getting into the whole freedom vs. security discussion about all this. I'm not saying that we should completely deregulate everything, but the problem is deeper than just making laws and imprisoning CEOs, we need a national cultural reset. We need to promote and incentivize good health and good habits, the collective West is dying right now, some would even say it's already dead. What we have isn't even capitalism at this point, it's like some sort of Orwellian neo-fascist corporatist nightmare. Most of the country has lost trust in government, in the private sector, and in our institutions, and for good reason, they aren't functioning towards the betterment of our society. I think we're going to be looking at a major shift away from "capitalism" to some sort of new system. Whether that'll be a better one or a much worse one is the real question.

[@jonr6680]

@@DrProfessorWeed Wow, that escalated quickly!

[@TheLivingVision11]

It seems to me the gaming and social media industries are in a Wild West phase with no accountability or standards for what is being produced and it’s outcome for the users. Right now, users are only seen as a commodity. We are being bought and sold to the industries themselves and to the advertisers. There should be some jurisdiction in this arena. Some ethical guidelines. There’s a whole generation being lost right now… for the capital gains of a few. As a parent trying to navigate balance for my child, it does feel like I’m playing a nearly impossible tug of war game, with a highly addictive substance that’s being manufactured to keep the users hooked.

[@DrProfessorWeed]

@@TheLivingVision11 You'd be surprised how many industries have become this, it's why I said we need a complete system overhaul. The social media and gaming industries are definitely some of the most blatant and obvious, I mean just look at companies like EA and 2K, they literally have games with child gambling.

[@jomurphy7446]

Glad to know I'm not alone 😂 I had to completely cut myself off of so many games. They are designed to be incredibly addictive, with dopamine dysfunction we don't stand a chance.

[@rexaustin2885]

sadly that is all one gets sometimes later on when nothing else is left.

[@nowie4007]

Same😂😂😂

[@gravity00x]

not only that, but take dota for example, a team based game where people at larg just play their own game and refuse to play together/communicate. its an atomic bomb of frustration for the ADHD person.

[@amypeggs9606]

This link is very clear to me. I have always struggled to spend time away from my computer and would just rotate from social media site to forums to others, just scrolling and clicking and repliying and checking for replies over and over again. It made me feel terrible but I couldn't stop myself. When I went on medication for ADHD, the desire to do it didn't completely go away, but I can only do it for a little while, then it gets boring. So I get up and do something else. It sounds silly but it's been totally life changing. I don't know in my case that CBT would have helped anything because I could explain to you all the reasons that I didn't want to keep scrolling forever but I couldn't act on it. I do think that the makers of these technologies prey on a very human weakness, and those of us with ADHD are unfortunately more vulnerable to it than the average person.

[@ivanrevkov843]

I've been diagnosed with ADHD. I am addicted to watching videos on youtube, 8 hours a day. When I started Ritalin, I didn't feel the urge to watch one video after another. I watched them just to occupy my mind

[@executivelifehacks6747]

Very relatable. I feel like my traits would have been adaptive in a world without all this information overload, when seeking out all the information that existed was a useful trait. Now the omnipresent devices, gaming, KZbin tiktok and other social media, and internet pornography have made a modern opium den situation. At least it is good that this stuff is recognised now.

[@vikingwalker0-1]

I remember spending way too much money on digital cosmetics in games with the little money I had. Free items just looked bland and there were no other ways to get premium items so I continously payed for each one I wanted. Prices for these items could range from $10-$30 each. I never really payed attention to how much money I've lost and could've saved if i never used it to purchase these things. Years later I've stopped paying for them completely, realizing these digital cosmetics were a complete waste of money. Digital storefronts are designed to be predatory to individuals more prone to overspending like me and other people with ADHD. I think this aspect should be addressed more in new research and discussion.

[@ginhko]

The link between any disorders and the use of virtual reality is particularly striking to me on a personal anecdotal level. If you've every played VRChat for an extended amount of time (I clocked about 600hrs mainly during the pandemic) there seem to be more neurodiverse people than neurotypicals. This "escape from reality itself" and transitioning into the purely virtual is an extraordinary coping strategy that I've seen used, where 3-dimensional, almost physical, "sociomimetic" qualities of virtual reality can act as a sort of "training wheels" for reality itself. I have had plenty of conversations that could be described as "trauma dumping" from other individuals that were on VRChat for an extended period of time. It helped me overcome social anxiety to a great extent, whereas I've also seen people being sucked into VRChat deeper and deeper, essentially replacing their real life identity with their virtual life. A study on the extended use and psychological effects of social VR-applications would be fascinating to see, as I believe they will replace legacy social media platforms in the near future.

[@RomaChyoknutyi]

gaming is the best 'silencer' i got against my loud-as-all-hell brain. no medication came close to keeping the brain tamed like this and me and my psychiatrist tried everything available on the market.

[@cas9065]

Gamification came out of videogames and is a successful pedagogical technique today. ADHD or behaviour change apps like fabulous are using that to help people manage their ADHD etc.

[@moogsify5718]

@@cas9065 not to be a buzz kill, but inevitably you get bored of these tactics. I've found that you have to be constantly looking out for new ways to create novelty, because the ADHD brain is a novelty dependent brain.

[@pinkgarage]

Skinner's Box - it's all n the Grind..., rewarding frustration. I have seen/read where game developers hire psychologists to help improve their games (addiction/monetize), and seen the effects first hand. Fortunately I am retired now, and on my last legs, so all i do is KZbin and v-games, but when I was younger, the best thing I found was getting outside, playing sports and exercising, dreaming and realizing my dreams - like travel, exploration and adventure. Getting out of an urban environment was instrumental for me, and having a pedal bicycle..., with which i managed to travel the Americas.

[@Hhhh-xo9ci]

I watched one of your conferences in youtube for parents with ADHD children, and it was truly amazing. I listened to you with tears in my eyes, and I want you to know that you make a tremendous difference in the lives of others. I deeply appreciate what you do. Sending lots of love from Turkey. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼💐🌺

[@BodyLanguageAnalysisInterrogat]

When I was 18, I asked my friend how she has such pretty, consistent hand writing.. her answer: ” You just have to REALLY WANT TO..” 💔😢 I did ”REALLY WANT TO” and it certainly didn't help for me. I am nearly 50. Thank you for addressing this

[@chaba2977]

I have to wonder if the studies considered any variability in the games. Asian online games are perceived in the West here as far more "grindy" and engineered to keep engagement high, especially the gacha design, which is akin to gambling. Unfortunately some of the so-called "dark patterns" are making their way into Western games as well due to the consolidation of gaming companies into massive corporate entertainment entities. It seems like it might be worth understanding how game design plays into the results of the studies being done regionally.

[@GameQuitters]

The link is strong in my experience - not only in my personal experience but in the individuals struggling with gaming and internet issues in our community. Thanks for all your great work Dr. Barkley.

[@TSpoon823]

As I sit here and watch this video on KZbin 😂. These studies don't surprise me at all. Thank you for bringing them to light here. I can't tell you how many hours I can spend on a game or a platform like this one if given no boundaries. And I will find myself thinking I know I need this to be the last one but I can't bring myself to stop even if I know staying on longer will be detrimental to my sleep or health. It's been a really frustrating part of my life for years, long before my diagnosis.

[@yasmataz616]

I'm the exact same way!! Also the way my mom raised me I never had a bedtime and I started staying up all night playing my games of choice when I was like 8. Like actually all night, until 6 or 7 or 8am. It's the same for me, even if I "know" I'm causing detriment to my sleep and/or health, I'm getting too much of that good good stimulation to stop myself until I'm genuinely too tired or hungry to stay focused. Genuinely this has been so normal to me that it's taken time for me to realize that it might really be holding me back in some ways.

[@ElnEedho-p7q]

My internet addiction actually recently led me to my diagnosis. If it wasn’t for your videos Doc. I would be brute forcing my way through life. Had my diagnosis and I’m in day two of my medications and I feel so much better. I’m able to practice much more restraint than I used to. Deeply thankful for you.

[@Drnonstop]

I'm glad to hear that, great news. Keep it up champ!

[@teesaayegnala7689]

Im the minority of adhders who aren’t into gaming,but i have that internet addiction and was always glued to screens as a kid but my adults always got me away it from it, clinical depression & social anxiety made me develop my internet addiction in the end,or actually kicked me down so i could develop the addiction.

[@BodyLanguageAnalysisInterrogat]

Amen 🙏🙌❤❤🎉🎉🎉 Thank you! Clumsy = Bad at Sports = Criticism = possible RSD (Rejection Sensitivity), Depression, Anxiety, Low Self Esteem. Writing cards due to poor hand writing, misspelling, procrastinating effects business and personal life. HUGE IMPACT

[@ashleylarson7106]

Hi Dr. Barkley! Would you be able to do a video on the relation between ADHD and gambling addiction in particular? I feel it is becoming more relevant than ever before with online gambling and legal slot machines in common places now such as the gas station and grocery store. Thank you!

[@DaveE99]

I had my mom totally ground us from games and internet and take them away except for homework when young. That actually was helpful for a full year we couldn’t do it

[@gabriellawaldi]

Thank you Dr. Barkley for this video.

[@Elspm]

I cut video games out of my life (with the exception of occasionally re-playing old games that I know well). I don't think I'd have got my degree if I hadn't, I couldn't seem to step away from them at all.

[@ThomasToPC]

Thank you Dr Barkley for another informative video! Now does it count if I'm addicted to your KZbin channel? Oh the irony! 😂

[@djorankeil]

I get bored of most games so quickly. I also find a lot of games to be so overwhelming with little tasks. Games are almost like a massive collection of chores these days.

[@mandyvanzanen]

Same! I’m so happy about this. I don’t need any more things to wrestle with 🤪 I also don’t like sugary drinks, another unintentional win 🥳

[@siren3587]

Please talk about TDCS as a potential treatment for ADHD !

[@amandafox815]

Thank you, this was very interesting!

[@Flumpadorus]

Thank you for these videos!

[@esmeralda918]

Thank you!☀️

[@vicstee482]

I am totally addicted to my phone. Any sort of internet. But im not into gaming weirdly. My phone tells me i spent between 6-8 hours per day on my phone. Just unbelievable. And such a waste of life.

[@teesaayegnala7689]

Same!!!

[@DaveE99]

I used to not own games, but once every so often I’d rent one, and then that week was gone till I returned it, but I knew I had a consequence and it got returned. Like that’s gone now, signup for 6 month rental subscriptions like “screw that”

[@Mightydoggo]

Gaming literally destroyed/is destroying my entire life. It´s just impossible to not watch youtube videos, while simultaneously play some game, while also writing down some stuff in between, trying to figure out what I wanna do with my life. Also working, though I really only work to pay rent and have some basic microwave food on the table. I can do that while playing most of the time anyway, as there´s a lot of downtime.

[@3iu0wmxxpxyn8]

Hello doctor glad i found you This is my question about my problem i know video isnt related to this bcs its focused more on gaming which i stopped (i back to brawl stars sometimes but i know now screens makes us very addictive) So its about brainworm music i cant listen to some few songs and i feel like i would waste time on not listening to them and believing after like a year of not listening it would stop those thoughs but i dont believe on that i saw some didnt helped (i meant most of them) because i know that i would fell beats in my body moving me even without music but i know song myself without hearing it it would jump in my head while at work, have any idea to not get them anymore or i need to fight not react on those "song demons" 😂 Much appreciated if you answer me whenever you have time doc. Regards.

[@ZenonOchrap]

Thank You!

[@Thegalaxies21]

I think one thing leads the other. By spending more time in the internet, especially with these fast quick attention social networks (twitter - you just read few words; instagram - just check a picture and a couple of words; tiktok, watch a video related to a topic that lasts sometimes no more than 2 minutes) people are losing the ability to pay attention to things. One of my nieces told me she doesn't have ADHD but because of TikTok, she feels KZbin videos to be too long. Perhaps people with mild ADHD symptoms have nowadays a "higher" (stronger? don't know how to word it) version of the disorder because of internet and gaming.

[@DC-oh1um]

Thank you ! How should restriction be managed by a parent? Should it be treated as a reward?

[@moogsify5718]

I'll give you my two dollars...I'm a 19yo Male currently failing out of University because of gaming addiction. The immediate and highly instinctual response of a parent to that statement is likely going to be; "we need to get rid of this ASAP". Fact of the matter is that it's incredibly uncharacteristic of me to not follow rules, and yet I've been through at least a decade of having my dad walk into my room (while I was actually having a good time), ripping my playstation (and chords attached) out of the wall, storming out, I'd wait a nerve-racking 20-30sec before he came back to discipline me, force me to sit through a half hour+ one way shouting match, and then tell me I'll get it back when he feels like it (could be days/weeks at a time). Depending on the ban length, this could happen several times a month - hell, even several times a week. Again, 10 years of that, and yet here I am, unable to function because he thought I "just need[ed] discipline". Probably a bigger issue than that if that's what's happened and I'm still here. I haven't actually been diagnosed (though I have very good reason to think I have ADHD/runs heavily in the family), but I will say this: restriction will only work for so long. If your child has the proper age-appropriate executive function, eventually (and given the right real world opportunities), they will outgrow gaming very quickly. My peers certainly outgrew it. Often times I was stunned to see my younger brother (e.g. when he was just 13) taking time away from the few days per year we had a full unrestricted day of play, and *eating food!* I often faced judgement from my peers even when I was 13 for how I obsessed over games. I was surprised actually, to find out that they weren't spending nearly as much time playing as me. Turns out it wasn't normal - the way I handled my gaming. If you look on reddit, you'll find plenty of ADHDers whose addiction almost vanished after taking meds. I've also found my neurotypical peers to have done the same well before highschool finished. I'd say let them have their fun, but also make sure they have the opportunities to experiment with deferred gratification. Barkley said you should be like a Shepherd. You're powerful, and you take the lead. But you don't get to dictate how your young ones respond to their world. Something my dad never figured out - despite the decade+ of trying so hard to mold me into the ideal image he had of me.

[@pleiadesx86]

It may be my first time to hear Cognitive Disengagement Syndrome. I was diagnosed as ADHD last year. Now I wonder if I actually have CDS, and why I never heard about CDS before. It seems almost no one among ADHD related KZbinrs talked about it.

[@DaveE99]

It’s rather new and Barkley even points out they haven’t gotten it in dsm yet.

[@nedahashemian3973]

hello doctor Barkley, I have a question if you don't mind, what is the difference between Delta brainwave ADHD and Theta wave ADHD? I didn't find in internet and my doctor said they have no difference, I'm confused! may you answer me? I'm really curious and I am doing anything to increase my knowledge about my delta adhd to cure it or put it under control.,may you talk about this? i'd be really grateful! please!

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

Delta waves are the slowest and associated with deep relaxation such as meditation or sleep, especially in young children. Theta waves are also slow waves but not as slow as delta and often occur during states on inattention and mind wandering whereas beta waves are associated with focused concentration. Be well.

[@623-x7b]

Does it count as internet addiction if you've done permanent damage to your spine from holding your phone looking at [#########] until three A.M in the mourning?

[@Faladaena]

Would 16 to 18 hours a day online be too long? 🤔🥺

[@nowie4007]

Yes😂😂

[@edwardmitchell6581]

Are there drugs that are particular to inattentive type ADHD? We don't have a TV or video games in the house. My 7-year-old seems addicted to books and Alexa (stories or games). He can't walk past a book with out opening it. Even baby books. They hyper-active 5-year-old just wants to move and wiggle. Sitting for more than an hour doesn't appeal to him.

[@jimskyboy2]

Treating with pharmaceutical medications isn't always the ONLY answer. Once we can finally agree as a species we can start offering more solutions and resolutions than omg, another study that's 25 years too late. - 34 /m diagnosed at 3.

[@jonasbrinkworse5436]

I don’t have a problem with gaming addiction. I just ... I just need to read up on nature magic before I level up and get a free skill point to put in witchcraft. And it needs to be before my boss gets out of his meeting, because he said to have the brief ready by then and how am I supposed to say I am almost done, if I'm not working on it when he comes? I wish I had my Obleevious spell in this world. Everything would be so much easier if I had my spells here. Not that I have a gaming problem, I can close the game anytime. Or switch screens atleast.

[@DaveE99]

We kinda need apps and ai to be designed around these issues

[@DIChronicAddict1]

So what is the solution to addiction?

[@jamiejohnson5748]

I believe it!

[@medicusofthedamned]

I wish I could sit down and pay attention to a game.

[@gabrielarantestiraboschi2218]

What about gaming increasing the risk for ADHD professor?

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

As far as we know it does not. It is ADHD that leads to overuse of tech. Be well

[@gabrielarantestiraboschi2218]

@@russellbarkleyphd2023 thank you so much for your response professor. We recently published a paper showing the inverse temporal sequencing (gaming predicting ADHD symptoms). I will include a link in another comment. But of course we are talking about symptoms. We are also investigating bidirectional associations in a larger time frame right now. Love your channel, big fan. Cheers :)

[@lippycruz3819]

we just use the games as escapism, at least it's not drugs, right?

[@lucolesco]

As a 20-year-old guy, games are not appealing to me anymore as it used to be. I usually only spend my time on KZbin, which is a huge time-waster in my case.

[@NataliaMenta]

I spend most of my waking hours here on KZbin

[@Worldwideweb24]

Same im addicted to youtube aswell

[@mattw5840]

I’m an information addict

[@arsenez.2432]

Same, all my friends think I’m the smartest guy they’ve met, but in reality I’m just unemployed & almost broke, and all I do days long is just read articles, listen to lectures and podcasts and I spontaneously research things that interest me at the moment. I’m just an information addict and this doesn’t help my life at all, because I can’t control what to be interested in.

[@Worldwideweb24]

Same im an info addict too , so many books downloaded so many channels subscribed to ,

[@selenemoon5056]

Games dont do anything for me , never did. I ger bored so fast and find them to be difficult, frustrating and make me nauseous 😅😅😅

[@jaeshasway]

And here I am avoiding getting started on my work day watching KZbin. 😩

[@NataliaMenta]

Same. Actually I did not work today because KZbin

[@Maryam-111]

🙏🙏🙏🙏💜

[@A.sou808]

The internet addiction is only bad depending on the context right? Lol

[@chrissyosozzy6465]

I mean im so stuck in researching stuff online i miss out on my own life. So for me its more negative my goal is to find a job to do that so i get my „fix“ that way

[@dalelane1948]

lazy comment, algorithm, etc etc

[@aDRUMMERloudly]

What’s your point?

[@BellPeppermint]

​@@aDRUMMERloudly I believe they're trying to help the video get more attention from the youtube algorithm, through a use of a comment, so that others have a chance of seeing it. This commenter just did so lazily.

[@Valorince]

I'm gonna start doing this as an unironic joke.

[@uidentity]

Is that a one person bed? Are you sleeping alone Dr. Russel? 😢

[@jonr6680]

I guess some people can afford a second bedroom. Who woulda guessed?

[@russellbarkleyphd2023]

It’s our guest bedroom in our new home.

[@fabiengarcia3011]

Thank you !