Russian Pilots Fielding PP-2000s & PLK Pistols

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thanks for watching, check out our accompanying article for this video here - armourersbench.com/2023/10/08/russian-pilots-fielding-pp-2000s-plk-pistols/

[@Ides_0f_March]

general surovikin had pp2000 (full tacticool with suppressor, red dot and that unique flashlight) on his lap in the video where he was trying to calm down prigozhin during his march on moscow, that was the only time I ever saw pp2000 "used" in this war

[@TheArmourersBench]

Yes he did, I forgot to include that!! Damn.

[@alexisXcore93]

do you have a link to the video?

[@jestice75]

@@TheArmourersBench You fucked up.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Just Google Surovikin video, will be the first thing.

[@jestice75]

@@TheArmourersBenchPut it in your video the first time. I want my click and view refunded.

[@Horgler]

I'd really love to see how the PP-2000 compares to the MP7 and P90 since they were all designed with the same goals in mind.

[@reekpeekseek]

It's 9x19. So basically it's a Uzi...

[@Tinblitz]

@@reekpeekseek The Germans and the Belgians started from the ground up with new calibres and cartridges to meet their needs. As far as I'm aware, the Soviets (and then the Russians) modified the 9x19mm cartridge to do what they needed. I'm surprised they didn't just make another 7.62 cartridge...

[@Tinblitz]

It'll be easier to find ammo for at the local gunshop when it hits the civilian market at least.

[@martinwinther6013]

Not really same use. mp7 and p90 is rear echelon weaps, used to counter armored paratroopers or special-force units..(turned out the bullets was too weak vs armiored targets, also why we dont see the weaps in widespread use, despite the mp7 being arguably the best smg ever) This one is more akin to a last ditch weap, with very little "survival" utility

[@Eluderatnight]

​@@reekpeekseek7x31AP

[@biturboism]

The Volvo VIP cordon was a snapshot of the early 2000s when Volvo entered the zeitgeist of Eastern Europe as a luxury brand.

[@HaHaeTs]

1:58 as a russian I hate it when people write KA-52 in all capital letters. it's not an acronym like AK for instance. "Ka" are simple first 2 letters of the name of the bureau, named after its creator (Kamov (Ka), Sukhoi (Su), Tupolev (Tu), Ilyushin (Il), Beriev (Be), Antonov (An), Mil (Mi), Yakovlev (Yak (it's 2 letters in Cyrillic) and so on). if say Boeing used it the same way, it would be like "Bo-737", not "BO". so spelling it KA-52 with all capitals is simply wrong. it's Ka-52. thank you.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thanks will remember that!

[@reimuhakurei5579]

прям таблицу Менделеева написал

[@The_ZeroLine]

You’ll be happy to know I’ve never made that mistake with any of the aircraft models.

[@RazorsharpLT]

Ah, at this point you already lost half of your fleet of those things, so they'll soon be a rarity anyway

[@HaHaeTs]

@@RazorsharpLT мнение человека который на серьезных щщах смотрит УНIАН учитывается разве что в песочнице) уж насколько развесистая бывает с двух сторон пропаганда, ваши подписки это просто апогей клоунады. Если верите что РФия потеряла половину Кашек то на здоровье) смотрите только свои могучие вертушки в воздух поднимите если они в вашей стране вообще есть (вроде какие то Ми-2 у вас летали если не изменяет память, хотя может пару БлэкХоков вам подкинули а я пропустил)

[@eddietat95]

Three decades after the height of the PDW craze and I have yet to see one SINGLE example of ANY PDW of that era (the ground-up designs) being successfully used for its intended purpose as opposed to a carbine. And, somehow, the Russians are going with it in 2023. Interesting stuff.

[@MEGATRYANT]

Because rear-line personel with little to no combat training are rarely engaged in combat. If you just wanted to give second-line troops that were armed with Uzis and Grease Guns in the late 1980s/early 1990s something with a bit more punch against soft body armor and range, the PDWs fit the bill quite nicely. And also Carbines and SBRs proliferated relatively recently, because firearm and ammunition technology evolved since then to make them more than just "concussion blasters"

[@eddietat95]

@@MEGATRYANT Lots to unpack: "Because rear-line personel with little to no combat training are rarely engaged in combat." GWOT and the war in Ukraine (especially in the first month) has proven that to be false. Both Coalition and Russian rear-echelon personnel had to consistently contend with ambushes and attacks behind the front lines. The Bundeswehr contingent, for example, went so far as to ditch the MP7 for those personnel for which it was issued and went with G36 carbines within arms reach at all times as an operational measure. Yes, they are less-trained with firearms than frontline personnel. They were trained further on base in A-stan to compensate. Yes, Russia trains it's soldiers less in general, but giving them a PDW over a carbine will do little without the fundamentals in place. "If you just wanted to give second-line troops that were armed with Uzis and Grease Guns in the late 1980s/early 1990s something with a bit more punch against soft body armor and range, the PDWs fit the bill quite nicely." True that the PDW concept of that era was to replace the pistol-caliber SMG (and to some extent the handgun), but this is 2023. We now know that the concept has failed. Only a handful of NATO countries, namely Germany and Belgium, have adopted PDWs to serve their original purpose. Others aren't even considering it. The Russians have chosen a glorified 9x19mm sub gun in this day and age (let's face it, they're never issuing the boutique AP rounds en masse). It isn't much different from the Western Uzi and Grease Guns you mentioned and it certainly isn't the leap that a carbine will give you, which leads to the final point. "And also Carbines and SBRs proliferated relatively recently, because firearm and ammunition technology evolved since then to make them more than just "concussion blasters"" Even with the intermediate-caliber carbines available in the 1990s when the PDW concept got hot (CAR-15/AKS-74U) they were never "concussion blasters". Fire both with ammo from that era and you will see. The muzzle device on the AKS-74U, developed at the same time of the AK-74, successfully contains the blast to the point where an amateur Soviet shooter can feasibly shoot it (and they did in Afghanistan, out of tanks and aircraft). The 14.5" barrel of the CAR-15 and M16 Carbine (later the XM4 and M4) was developed in the early-70s in the Colt 65X series and successfully allows more dwell time to burn off more propellent and reduce outbound flash to the delight of some US law enforcement with minimal training. So, no, not "concussion blasters" and not a recent development.

[@eddietat95]

@@sei_asagiri Lots to unpack: "the pdw trials were basically nato not understanding how firearms work at all and asking gun companies to make them a gun that shoots pistol bullets but also defeats body armor" Read the document titled "NATO PDW Trials Report from AC225 LG/3 D7 (2002)". They knew how firearms worked. The point of their PDW concept was to replace all of the 9mm NATO submachine guns and pistols. They asked gun companies to deliver a product that fit the requirement and FN/H&K delivered that exact requirement... but it was expensive and not enough of a leap to warrant mass purchase by NATO militaries with dwindling post-Cold War budgets. The rest of what you said is true, but keep in mind that CRISAT test target was designed during the Cold War when access to Russian equipment was limited. Also keep in mind that mass issuance of hard plate carriers was not common for regular infantry in any military until the US Interceptor vest was mass produced after 9/11. Before then, it was only issued to very specialized troops/police units if at all.

[@MEGATRYANT]

@@sei_asagiri NATO asked for a compact, easy to use, low-recoil weapon that could defeat soft body armor like 6B3, to replace older 9mm submachine guns for rear echelon troops, and they got exactly what they asked for. Also the AKS-74u, like most SBRs of the time, has a massive, retardedly bright, loud and concussive muzzle blast that made it horrible to be used by any second-line personel. There is a reason that they stopped producing 74us and looked into PDWs themselves.

[@MC_148]

@@MEGATRYANT If they stopped producing them, it's because they have plenty of them and not because they're horrible. Ask anyone who's ever handles a ksiuha and they will tell you how amazing it is. Also, many ex soviet countries in EU still manufacture their own versions of 74u to this day..

[@artnull13]

“Positive results had already been ordered” - yup sums up Russian procurement 😂

[@LordJuan4]

😂😂

[@TheAKgunner]

Ten will get you twenty that no Russian pilot will see these guns.

[@joshuarooney8614]

Same with russia running out of missiles , funny..seeing as they managed to pump out the ak 12s in no time and fully supplied the vdv and special forces .. your comment is just speculation.

[@TheAKgunner]

@@joshuarooney8614 No, it’s fact.

[@SquidElvis]

Its opition that you conjure from mainsream media@@TheAKgunner US and Russia are both well supplied with every imagenery thing to kill each other sadly

[@metubepick2008]

Shoigu was given the "hero of Russia" star. I doubt this dude has been through a basic training, let alone combat. I got nervous just by watching him flagging people around him while he is looking at the new firearm.

[@justanobodybusybody]

guy is obviously good at things other than combat or gun handling to attain such a high rank, which is much more than what we can say for ourselves

[@metubepick2008]

@@justanobodybusybody interesting perspective! 🤔 You have a good point! 😉

[@Max_Da_G]

He got the awarded in 1999 while being in charge of Ministry of Emergency Situation. He organized it from the ground up, uniting disjointed units that to disaster relief work, and expanded their roles, increased efficiency, got the organization and training going. Today Russian MES is among worlds best organizations for the job, and had been used around the world in relief operations. So he earned that medal with LOADS of hard work.

[@metubepick2008]

@@Max_Da_G Thank you for sharing! Not it makes perfect sense why, he got that medal.

[@TheTeeWorldsfreak]

Tbh, the PP2k is perfect for the task. It's small, comact, lghtweght and can be carried easly. The main task of a weapon like this is to GTFO of the current situation.

[@cheekibreeki4638]

Thank you, most seem to fail to realize its to keep the baddies away and get you home, not go rambo mode.

[@Lincoln_and_the_poor-boys]

Speaking of KBP Instrument Design Bureau, have there been any GSh-18s spotted during this conflict?

[@TheArmourersBench]

Only one or two sightings so far

[@Lincoln_and_the_poor-boys]

@@TheArmourersBench frankly I'm surprised there's even that, I've seen more pic of OTs-14s in the wild.

[@w5monkey]

waving that muzzle around carelessly, thought he was going to look down the barrel for a moment

[@freetime5803]

Shoigu never served in the military fyi And no, dont ask me how on Earth he is in the position he is already. You already know the answer lol

[@TigranHakobyan-jh8ue]

obviously it aint loaded

[@w5monkey]

​@@TigranHakobyan-jh8ue yeah not trusting anyone without the discipline control the orientation of the muzzle in a safe direction

[@SBOTac]

The US Airforce is already fielding GAU-5a's in their pilot's survival kits, and that's chambered in 5.56. I don't see why Russia wouldn't do the same for their pilots with the AM-17.

[@prfwrx2497]

Shoigu's mansion doesn't build itself

[@z0phi3l]

For the same reason the US Army went with UCP when it was the worse performing camo of those tested, some general was padding his retirement at the expense of the soldiers

[@justicar5]

I mean they have had the AKs-74U since the 80s, would love to see a size comparison.

[@eddietat95]

@@justicar5 Those AKS-74Us are already built. No general can make money from it anymore. That's why RuAF is looking for newly-built stuff that is (very) hopefully superior to Cold War-era stuff.

[@Swindle1984]

Small rifle-caliber carbines have increased recoil, noise, and muzzle flash, and pilots aren't expected to be expert marksmen. This is a compact weapon, barely larger than a pistol, with manageable recoil for someone who doesn't spend much time on the range, which can fit in a holster or ejection seat in a cramped cockpit, and won't weigh down a pilot running for miles on foot through enemy territory to reach an extraction point. Pilots aren't supposed to engage the enemy unless there's no other option, and they will nearly always do so at point-blank range while trying to hide when an enemy soldier stumbles across them. Something like the PP2000 or MP7 is perfect in this case. Further, while it seems the ammo isn't reaching pilots yet, the PP2000 and similar weapons have armor-piercing ammo that performs roughly on par with that of the P90 or MP7, but is more lethal to unarmored troops due to simply making a bigger hole.

[@Kefuddle]

PP2K is a really solid choice for such an application.

[@lucastonoli3256]

@@sei_asagiri The 74u is also ineffective at any given range against currently issued body armor, please stop repeating the same false information all over the place.

[@Kefuddle]

@@sei_asagiri Maybe, but the 7N31 ammunition goes a little way to correcting that (if used!). But regardless, as stated in the vid, there is probably not enough room for an SU in the cockpit in a lot of aircraft, more firepower than a pistol would be desired and, even if you are wearing body armour, you are not just going to walk up to a pilot armed with even a .22 never mind something capable of doing a lot of damage.

[@skepticalbadger]

​@@sei_asagiriFrom the.. Concussion? The only thing putting them on the floor via backface deformation is blunt trauma.

[@cheekibreeki4638]

He has a very strange anti-PDW crusade lol

[@rinaldoman3331]

PP2K comes with 7N31 PBP ammo which penetrates better than classic 7N6 for 5.45 aka poison bullet.

[@hamishneilson7140]

I love how at 1:45 buddy that opens the door lazes everyone else going through

[@Tinblitz]

0:10 Shoigu looking incredibly disinterested and casually flagging the chap he's talking to there. 10/10 would trust his opinion on firearm procurement.

[@TheArmourersBench]

They all look so excited to be there. Such interest, much engaged.

[@Tinblitz]

@@TheArmourersBench I'm sure we'd both be like kids in a candy store if we were in that situation. "Ah, yes, this new weapon for procurement. I need two of them to take home... For further testing..."

[@joostdriesens3984]

I believe the flagging is standard protocol for Russian officers casually threatening each other down the hierarchy line.

[@Tinblitz]

@@joostdriesens3984 "Keep em in line, let em know who's boss"

[@woofkaf7724]

Ни один босс не заинтересован ни в чем кроме денег.

[@Chiller11]

5:15 Certainly looks like the trailing guy could point his muzzle in just about any other direction. I would prefer a 5.45mm weapon to 9mm if I were an evading Russian pilot in Syria. In Ukraine I think I would eschew all weapons and adopt the fully erect arms up in the air stance as the safest survival strategy.

[@ayrendraganas8686]

Hes making sure komrade doesnt retreat :)

[@AndRei-yc3ti]

What ends up happening instead is that Ukrainians end up adopting the "arms up" posture, given that Ukraine has been complaining about not having a "POW fund" compared to RU that has over 10k UA soldiers as POWs. Which is also why we see lopsided exchanges of prisoners like 10 to 1

[@christopherwang4392]

1:59 "The move towards better equipping aircrews has been reportedly driven by experiences in Syria..." I remember reading a news report that a Russian combat pilot shot down over ISIS-controlled territory in Syria chose to blow himself up with a grenade rather than be captured and executed by approaching ISIS fighters. EDIT: After some fact-checking, I found out that the pilot was 33-year old Major Roman Nikolayevich Filipov whose Su-25SM Frogfoot was shot down by Tahrir al-Sham (formerly known as Jabhat al-Nusra) over Idlib Governorate. Major Filipov's body was repatriated to Russia where he was posthumously awarded the title of Hero of the Russian Federation. While I oppose Russia's support of Bashar al-Assad's regime, I have to give credit and respect to Major Filipov for his last stand.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Yep, that's definitely one that's often mentioned in Russian news reports.

[@seand.g423]

I mean... I get that he was _Russian,_ but could you fucking _blame_ him?

[@MDR-hn2yz]

I was a helicopter gunner in Iraq. I can tell you that mindset is not unique to Russians fighting in Syria.

[@Max_Da_G]

You'd rather Jabhat Al-Nusra, ISIS or some terrorist group known for cutting peoples heads off and terrorizing civilians over Assad that maintained actual order in his country and kept a secular state that didn't have intra-religious wars? You are not the most well-informed on the subject, I can tell you that much.

[@thesysop4998]

Clicked on the video and I'm surprised how mature everyone is

[@skepticalbadger]

Your mum is mature. (Sorry).

[@alanniederlitz8630]

Very cool info, VERY COOL!!!

[@modenasolone]

Sweet little sub-gun. I cant wait when someone builds a clone kits here.

[@zoiders]

It looks about as much use as a gold plated MAC11 in .380 complete with leather tassels.

[@modenasolone]

@@zoiders cool imagination

[@IonPerseus]

Afaik it has civilian version called OTs-126, not sure if it was exported tho

[@oredshirt969]

In battlefield 3 this was my gun.... if you heard this thing go off in ziba tower it was me.... this is my 100 service star spam gun with my recon.

[@ossian108]

Ziba tower? Where's that? I checked Ukraine's map in detail. No results.

[@stevefaiello3321]

Hip fire with the laser all day, every day.

[@oredshirt969]

It's a video game

[@AsianAmerican2007]

​@@oredshirt969 no shit

[@ayrendraganas8686]

5:15 so, barrier troops are still a thing, huh?

[@pmgn8444]

That flash hider sure looks like an A2-type bird-cage!

[@SCH292]

"ruSSian neVer cOpy anDyBody!". ---> Russian Bootlickers and Russians.

[@theamazingyoutubewatchergu6838]

I’d want the AK74U if I were a Russian pilot. It was used in that role previously, and is only a bit larger than a pistol caliber PWD, and shoots the much more useful 5.45. So what gives? Possibly the ability for a pistol caliber weapon being more suited for the suppressed configuration? That’s really the only justification for not equipping then with a rifle caliber carbine.

[@wareagle3651]

Yeah, I’d much rather have a Krink as well. That said, if you compare the additional weight and more importantly, volume of 5.45 mags vs 9x19, it’s a lot bulkier. At the end of the day, this really is a “last ditch” SHTF tool. Not likely to get a downed pilot out of a jam if we’re being realistic.

[@quakethedoombringer]

I think the main issue is the limited space inside the cockpit. A krinkov may be small by normal rifle standard, it is still fairly bulky, especially for fighter pilots who barely have any space for their personal stuff Also you as a pilot would try to be discreet as possible. A PP2000 can do its job against some scout or guard dog. If you are chased by a full squad or more, chances are the AK 74U won't make much of a difference. That's when the grenade comes in. Another issue is that the Krinkov stops production for a while now. The rest are for polices or other pilots

[@duartesimoes508]

Do not call it Krinkov because that designation is nothing but an American invention. My Stepson is in the 🇺🇦 3CY and was issued a Makarov and an AK-74U. He never heard of any "Krinkov" and laughed at the designation. He likes the little Makarov as everyone does, but loathes the AK-74U. "It is only good to scare" he says. It is a very unbalanced weapon; the recoil is excessive, the muzzle blast is deafening, the muzzle flash is blinding, the folding stock is very uncomfortable as expected and you can't really hit anything with it. He does praise the standard AK-74M but these are not issued in his branch. Shortened firearms may look sexy in movies but are normally worse than the standard model. Less powerful and harder to control.

[@soupenjoyer6173]

concealment matters much more than firepower, the use case for such a weapon is if you are downed behind enemy lines at which point the ability to remain undetected is far more important than having a big gun, if you have to take out a two man patrol a suppressed 9m sub gun is going to do you a lot more favors than an extremely loud krink

[@theamazingyoutubewatchergu6838]

@@wareagle3651 I think it’s more likely meant to be something intended to give a pilot a false sense of security. Maybe they’ll feel more protected, and thus be willing to put themselves in more danger.

[@MDR-hn2yz]

I was an aerial gunner in the Marines. I found this video very interesting given my own experiences. If given the choice, I would take a pistol and a rifle. Which is exactly what I used to fly with as personal weapons. A pistol because it gets strapped to your body and goes wherever you go, and a rifle because it’s a rifle. I understand space concerns inside of a cockpit. Given the choice, I would still take a pistol. I want it attached to me. An SMG or PDW is ballistically superior to a pistol, but if you go down and get separated from it, you’re Fu**ed. We once had a guy go off the ramp during an extract from an LZ in Ramadi. At night. The only weapon he had was his pistol. Give me a pistol and a rifle… extra magazines for both, a solid fixed blade and a frag grenade in case things get nasty. Just my experiences.

[@JimGames11746]

What kind of rifle would you have on you, and which would be ideal in your opinion?

[@williamzk9083]

The guns are useless unles you need to shoot a tiger or crocodile or kill a dear for food if you had a silencer.. If you come across an enemy squad they might send a detachment of 4. 2 guys pin you down while 2 advance to cover. Then they pin you down and leap frog till you are shot or captured. If you shoot at them you'll only make them angry. If you are dealing with ISIS it might be best to fight to the death and you might get one. Of course kids who play "Wolfenstein" or some such nonsense no nothing of squad tactics.

[@MDR-hn2yz]

When I was in Iraq, we had M-16A2’s. Obviously not ideal because it’s a full length service rifle, but if it was needed for its intended purpose it’s fine. I was in a large helicopter, a CH-53E, so space wasn’t a problem. Our rifles were kept in soft cases, stowed with our personal gear. Theory being if you went down, and lived, you just grab and go. The other thing I forgot to mention about a rifle is this. Flying in a helicopter in combat often means breaking down in forward bases. If you are unlucky enough to break down somewhere, and they get hit, you’re going to want a rifle. Personally, I think an M4 would have been great. The biggest thing in my opinion is space and being able to collapse the stock to stow it would have been nice.

[@JimGames11746]

@@MDR-hn2yz appreciate the insight, thank you for your service

[@williamzk9083]

@@MDR-hn2yz “full length service rifle” Better than an M14 though😀

[@Thymeovermars]

thats a weird but also cool looking weapon

[@timexkills65]

Mw2 2009 had it in there

[@Mad_Dog_of_the_Regime]

With the right ammo, this gun is a beast in tarkov.

[@pedromegacool]

Do you have any information on the OTS-126? I can't even find a video of it being fired.

[@coolbeans7349]

this will probably get lost but i really did enjoy this, got this in my recommendations and i will watch more videos this was really interesting

[@TheArmourersBench]

Love hearing that. Thanks for watching! Whole playlist on Ukraine stuff and also more general historical stuff too.

[@goliath3413]

I know the ammunition isn't easily available and sub-par but i dream of an alternate universe where they use 9A-91 and SR3s

[@Anton-cc7yc]

Pilots were asking for a better AKS-74U for a decade now… and we get this 😂

[@justgunsyt]

The development program for a new PDW-ish 5,45 mm assault rifle was far from ending at the time of the decision to procure the PP-2000 PP-2000 is a substitute in an environment when the previous generation firearm is no longer manufactured and the new generation firearm is still in development

[@Beazabull]

Probably not designed for sustained rates of fire but that charging handle looks like it'd get really hot

[@Max_Da_G]

Pilot wears nomex gloves that are fire-retardant. He'd be dumb to take them off when he is on the ground. And after 2-3 mags, it wouldn't get all that hot. It's a blow-back gun, not a gas-driven system.

[@taskforcekarma6945]

Any update if the Russian Ground Forces ever went through with the transition to the Udav Pistol 9x21mm, it was chosen before the Ukraine special military operation. However I all RU Forces in Ukraine have generally used the MP-443 Grach and the Makarov PM. I know deliveries of the Udav arrived to the Ground Forces in late 2022, but haven't seen any updates since.

[@mikesuch9021]

What do you want to bet these generals just line their pockets with money along with the contractors.

[@baraka629]

0:48 why doesn't the masked dude use the forward grip that was made for exactly the one single purpose of holding onto it?

[@ChristmasVavFFLi_And_Snowflake]

Did you see the recoil on that gun ?

[@wernesgruder1]

Where does he get those fabulous toys?

[@Galaxy-o2e]

Im suprised this hasnt happen earlier

[@freetime5803]

The PP-2000 looks cute

[@SurvivalRussia]

Shoigy muzzle flashing the cameraman))))

[@unbearifiedbear1885]

Very cool!

[@EpicThe112]

Looks like they tried replicating what was used in Afghanistan 1979-1989 where the Mi-24 Hind crew carried AK-74U in a holster. For the Russians they should try testing 7N21 7N31 on ppk 20

[@colbunkmust]

I feel like they already solved this problem in the 70s with the 74u... Why they haven't restarted those production lines is beyond me. The Bulgarians and Poles don't seem to have a problem making super short AK carbines.

[@zeroxception]

Russia has very rich industrialists now. Just like any other country they need to find a way to put public money in private pockets

[@StacheMan26]

The AK-74U was built in a different plant and with different tooling for far more components than you'd think from the standard 74 and because of that it was ditched during the manufacturing rationalization that was the AK-100 series, with the somewhat larger 105 being its direct replacement among them. Given it's been almost thirty years since it's highly likely the 74U specific tooling is long gone and simply restarting production is impossible.

[@colbunkmust]

@@StacheMan26 The thing is, you don't really need the older tooling unless your goal is to make an AKs-74u clone, which isn't necessary. A 9-10 inch barreled ak-202 could use the same furniture and a slightly shortened gas-tube with the same Krink or strela muzzle device used on shorter AKs. The whole issue stemmed from discarding the 74u line in the first place when clearly the weird pistol caliber PDWs aren't capable of performing the same job. The 104-105 was really designed for special forces units, and was never designed to replace the the 74u that primarily had a pdw role. The pp-2000 makes sense as a paramilitary/police subgun, but not as a battlefield weapon, especially in terrain as open as Ukraine's.

[@vulkan690]

PP-2000 has been around for over a decade

[@TheArmourersBench]

Mhmm it has.

[@psychobeam99]

I wonder why they chose this over the Kalash style PDW.

[@reelmsy3831]

0:24 It really should be! I feel bad for the pilot who had to become an hero through grenade after his Stechkin APS ran out.

[@sharonrigs7999]

They don't use 9x18 Mak anymore?

[@_b_x_b_1063]

Used

[@sharonrigs7999]

@@_b_x_b_1063 So....this gun is chambered in Russia's high speed 9x21 and not 9x18?

[@rastusbojangles]

pp-2000 with an acog supressed was my shiz in battlefield 4.

[@lukasethan6429]

Ok great, but what about the spetznaz shovel that they use to do flips and toss it into a mannequin and chop its head off? Thats what I want to see.

[@BiscuitDelivery]

In terms of rules of war downed enemy airmen are considered non-combatants while under the parachute and are supposed to be offered a chance to surrender once they land. If they persist in hostile engagement, then the rules for an enemy combatant apply. Equipping fighter pilots with more than a sidearm shows that the government of said state has no intention for their pilots to be captured alive.

[@MrSniperdude01]

You say like its a bad thing 😂 I personally would love to get a PP-2000 (preferably) with a free "oil filter" + few hundred rounds of ammo

[@protoman1214]

No one is gonna talk about the first dude flagging everyone in that first clip?

[@DJJAW11]

... I would of thought,though a compact subgun is good. Would it not be best to stick with a compact lightweight scaled down ak type etc, so as to be able to use intermediate rifle rounds/magazines from dead combatants/enemy on the ground, you have to deal with/come across!.

[@petep8828]

idk, but that plk looks pretty cool…

[@shah1038]

Why all russian smg have the word PP?

[@felixstumm]

It stands for пистолет-пулемёт (submachine gun).

[@andrewdopple6946]

it seems like the A-91 would be something that makes much more sense. It is essentially a full-length carbine in a smaller package, has a grenade launcher that can fire signal flares and smoke. on some variants it is chambered in 5.56mm making it ideal if trapped behind enemy lines and being able to use captured ammo. Also worth noting is that the A-91 is manufactured by KBP instruments, some people who produce the PP-2000 Its not like you're expecting the pilots to engage in long fire fights so its not like logistics is an issue. I doubt its a cost issue, since the Am-17 is being considered, but I suspect its purely a political ploy for lobbyists interest.

[@TheGaymo]

Given that russian pilots usually eject while still under coverage of their IADS, the A-91 seems like adding complication for no practical benefit.

[@andrewdopple6946]

I would agree with you, but the GAU-5A is used in the US airforce for pilot survival. It is ejected in a pack. Also, if size is a concern, why was a full length carbine that is at least 8-10 inches longer being considered? lol @@TheGaymo

[@fridrekr7510]

If they can't even fit an AKSU, which is shorter, lighter, and far more available, how is an A-91 going to fit? The PP-2000 is going to replace pistols in aircrafts where nothing else will fit, like fighter jets etc. The PP-2000 is like half the size and weight of a carbine.

[@pyeitme508]

Really?

[@MarkAndrewEdwards]

Want

[@fvo911]

Why can’t they just rely on AKsU-74 (shortened ak) that fires 5.45

[@sheikbombalot5781]

It’s is a beauty!

[@Enclave_Communications_Officer]

Love them couch experts in the comments

[@Shieldbasch]

Me: Mom, can we have MP7? Mom: We Have MP7 at home. MP7 at home:

[@Shinzon23]

Neat. Now how likely are they to actually get them given the rampant and not even hidden anymore corruption and theft? Also, its cute they are issueing pilots these...just makes it far more likely they get "shot whilst being captured" when their bird goes down

[@fireworksfanatics2777]

I mean, it probably beats fighting with a potato-on-a-stick so, I'd have it!

[@patriotenfield3276]

Please INSAS and EMERK MA1 .

[@StudSupreme]

"Aerospace forces"???

[@TheArmourersBench]

Yep, that's how they describe them.

[@ncrvako]

If olny the lebedev start showing up more.

[@hughjass7914]

So the Russian 9mm is the Tokarev necked cartridge?

[@TheArmourersBench]

Nope. These chamber 9x19

[@Itzjusta9]

It sucks you can’t get this in America

[@meal_team_6]

yeah thats a general for ya he just casually flashed everyone in the room with that ppk

[@RicArmstrong]

If i was a downed pilot and had to fight off small groups of people hunting me, I would want something more than 9mm caliber. At least give them a Krinkov .

[@jessesimmons4503]

Draco

[@RicArmstrong]

@@jessesimmons4503 The Draco is just an Americanized version of a Krinkov in 7.62 caliber.

[@brianv1988]

I was thinking the exact same thing it might as well use a pistol the pp2000 is just a tiny bit more accurate but still nothing compared to krinkov an accuracy and magazine capacity

[@SBOTac]

They issue pilots grenades to use on themselves to avoid capture. That's what happened to old boy in Syria. It's also been encouraged by the Russian high command for troops on the Ukraine Frontline to place a grenade under their chin or close to their chest and pull the pin as opposed to surrendering or being captured.

[@paleoph6168]

@@brianv1988 PP-2000 also has a 44-round magazine and 5.45x39mm paired the short barrel of the AKS-74U result in worse ballistics performance.

[@thathalo5player106]

Funny that the Russian general doesnt even know gun safety ashes flagging everyone around him and the camera man with that smg at the fist 30 seconds of the video, lol

[@sekarmaltum1695]

with armor piercing ammunition, maybe this gun wont be entirely useless.

[@ИванШелуханов-ж8д]

Где принят на вооружение ПП-2009 ? В каких-то частях игры Call of Duty. И всё)))

[@TreyWait]

I feel pretty confident that my first impression is correct, that this thing is trash. Better than nothing but a lot worse than many other options. An ergonomic nightmare that is horribly balanced with a bore axis so high it wants to flip itself over your shoulder.

[@chrisdonahue524]

lol

[@ianbadeaux7774]

Nah, the gun looks cool.

[@cheekibreeki4638]

You must have lots of experience with one!

[@1337flite]

PP2000. It shoots WeeWee2000 ammunition. If ever there was an unfortunate name.

[@koffeekage]

In America, pilots get 2000 “PP”s

[@socko2085]

If they're going to use a handgun caliber, it should have at least been chambered in 7.62 Tokarev since it has actual armor penetration abilities.

[@fridrekr7510]

They're using high velocity armour piercing 9x19 ammo like 7N21 and 7N31. Russia hasn't really developed 7.62x25 since WW2 and instead chose armour piercing 9x18 and 9x19. Standard ball 7.62x25 might have better penetration than 9x18 or 9x19, but nobody chose that caliber to continue development of armour piercing pistol ammo, which makes me doubt its supposed effectiveness.

[@socko2085]

@@fridrekr7510 then they should develop it. WW2 surplus 7.62x25 is already able to defeat level 3a soft body armor, I feel like with some development, it would blow 7N21 and 7N31 out of the water.

[@JD-tn5lz]

​@@socko2085the Russians have some of the same issues that we do. Too many people making decisions that start with the mindset of "old is Bad" and "why improve an old when we can spend three times as much making something newer not quite as good?" Think of how the .277Fury came about.

[@donwyoming1936]

Problem is, pilots are going to be facing people with AK-74s & AKMs. Armor piercing pistol cartridges lose effectiveness relatively quickly. They're going to be outranged & outgunned.

[@TheAKgunner]

I’d prefer a rifle like the GAU-5A. Better range and stopping power.

[@michaelgodwin9379]

Gun company should let soldiers designer weapon. They the ones that have to carry. They’re the ones that have to use it. Why not let the soldiers designed the perfect weapon for their water.

[@JimmySailor]

Idk why but a range with absolutely no berm whatsoever seems very Russian.

[@JD-tn5lz]

Meh, it is Russia. Remember, the nearest building or road the direction he is shooting is probably twenty miles away. Kind of how we do things in AK

[@joonasnaski9513]

Shoigu flagging that cameraman indicates that at least in russia the leaders of armies know very little about weapons.

[@Keiser-h4z]

A real PDW

[@Initial_Gopnik]

This gun looks like it could be the weird love child of a tommy gun, a glock, and a vityaz.

[@FacitOmniaVoluntas.]

“Maximum accuracy of 200m” lmao. No. You’re not hitting anything with that at 200m.

[@minuteofcan]

Just needs a brace....

[@xenonvoid1780]

This was almost always my backup on mw2. Such a cool looking gun

[@Calvin_Coolage]

There's so many people in this comment section saying 'hurr durr give them AKS-74U's', as if anything larger than the PP-2000 would ever fit in the cockpit of most Russian aircraft. The Soviets still issued their pilots pistols like the Russians do now because a lot of their aircraft were in use during the Soviet era. The cockpit of a MiG-29 or an SU-27 Is EXTREMELY cramped, and the SU-25 cockpit is claustrophobic nightmare fuel. Those Ka-52 pilots were honestly pretty lucky they were flying a helo with such a huge cockpit that could fit full size AK-74's. Ultimately the logic behind giving their pilots a modern-ish PDW with a suppressor and 7N21 makes a lot of sense. I just doubt their ability to make the use of them conskstent with all the logistics issues the Russians have had in Ukraine. I guarantee we'll still see pilots get stuck with ancient Makarovs for the rest of this war, or even worse, a PP-2000 with shitty FMJ 9mm that can barely penetrate a 2x4.

[@zoiders]

I don't think you have ever seen how easily 9mm NATO will go through a 2x4.

[@Calvin_Coolage]

@@zoiders 2x4 is just the first thing that came to mind. Point is I'd be concerned that these pilots won't get good ammo, as far as I know a lot of the 72N1 ammo is used by thr FSB and othet internal security units.

[@fridrekr7510]

@@Calvin_Coolage I don't see why they couldn't equip their pilots with the modern AP ammo. The VKS is used sparingly in Ukraine and they would only need to supply each pilot with a few magazines for emergencies. It's not like an infantry unit that constantly burn through their ammo and needs to be resupplied. And even then, the aircrafts operate from bases behind the front that need regular supplies of fuels and spare parts anyway. Despite the overall poor logistics, the Russians do have some small very well equipped units in their special forces etc., so they are able to supply the good stuff to selected people if they really want to. The modern ammo has also been found in Ukraine with poorly funded regional SOBR teams, so it's not like it's only tier 1 TsSN FSB operators that get it anyway. You have a point about old equipment staying in use or being taken out of storage as the war drags on, but I would think that mainly applies to all the troops needed for the meatgrinder rather than the relatively few fighter pilots they use.

[@lightsector1523]

Как показала практика им такое оружие вообще не чем не помогает.В Чернигове например после бомбардировки мирных жилых кварталов ро ZZ ийский лётчик был сбит,и его приземление видел весь район и весь город,после приземления местные жители погнались за ним и хотели его остановить, он с табельного оружия застрелил одного из местных жителей после чего был схвачен.В основном на поиск лётчиков отправляют специально обученные группы и такое оружие абсолютно не поможет,как только для того чтоб застрелиться после приземления,потому как мирные жители после бомбардировок и убийства стариков,детей и женщин, после разрушенных домов и поломанных судеб просто разорвут на части.

[@fuze3107]

why not Give them a AK-104, 105 ? i mean there is stock piles of AK mags and ammo and hell you might even be able to pick up ammo from ukies or most of Russia's enemy neighbours that still use soviet era weapons. and If you are a pilot chances are you aren't gonna stick around too long and engage anything that is more than 200 meters away. and both 545 and 762 have enough power to fight enemies wearing body armor. and besides both weapons are only 59 cm if you fold a stock. I mean hell the soviet pilots used to get 74Us and they made a holster so... why not just bring that back.

[@MrJahbuddha]

They are longer and heavier than AK-74U. And after ejection pilots will probably have a spinal compression injury, maybe lighter gun and ammo is preferrable.

[@Se7enBeatleofDoom]

Looks like a submachine gun from payday 2.

[@johnoakley5544]

the fuq is that???

[@setituptoblowitup]

Just give me the TP-82 plz

[@zoiders]

Looks like utter clown shoes to me. It's too small to be controllable with the spicey over pressure 9mm while it's very complicated for what it is.

[@zeph-8244]

Why not just issue Krink?? Almost same size. 9 mm in a combat zone against intermediate and full size cartridges? Really? Useless!!!

[@StevenRogers-hw9dj]

At least Russian pilots now have a better chance of shooting down enemy planes than they did with their missiles.

[@PilyaTRisyazhnyuk-yl3wl]

Oh my god there's so much tension in the room i think my a****** is clinched up all the way from North America

[@rafiqkatana]

It's a bit hard to use the weapon when the pilot's ass is blown through the windscreen of their planes. So, no problem.

[@ХамзатБоков-ж2ш]

That's old news. Now pilots are getting new ppk 20 (pistol caliber ak basically), and new handgun plk pistol

[@TheArmourersBench]

Nope it's not.

[@syndicate4417]

“The Russian led commonwealth of independent states” cracks me up 😂

[@overdrivelzma.9219]

C E I