THE MAGNUS ARCHIVES

MAG147 - Case #0182007 - Annabelle Cane
Statement regarding their history and their observations of the Magnus Archives, London.
The Magnus Archives finds the story of a familiar arachnophobe and considers the issues surrounding the nature of free will.
Content Notes: Spiders, manipulation, drug use, self-harm
Starring: The Archivist - Jonathan Sims; Basira Hussain - Frank Voss; Melanie King - Lydia Nicholas; Alice “Daisy” Tonner - Fay Roberts
Writer: Jonathan Sims
Director: Alexander J Newall
Producer: Lowri Ann Davies
Editors: Alexander J Newall, Elizabeth Moffatt, Brock Winstead
MERCH:
Crowdmade: crowdmade.com/collections/rus...
Teepublic: www.teepublic.com/stores/rust...
Redbubble: www.redbubble.com/people/Rust...

[@oftheangels777]

I think the real reason other avatars keep asking Jon: “Can I call you Jon?” is because they’re asking if he’s still human enough to care if he has a name or not

[@beltaya276]

OH FUC@

[@Ghostrecall_M]

I would do the same honestly.

[@Dragoriax3]

Now THIS is a question

[@coffeewolfproductions9113]

So then was Nikola wondering if Elias was really too far gone or was she just taunting him?

[@boomerangbutler9228]

@@coffeewolfproductions9113 I'm guessing you know by now, but I'll keep it vague for other ppl. I figured Nikola asked if she could call him "Elias" as opposed to his other name.

[@cottoncandy4228]

"Addiction is one of the strongest vectors of control there is." Jon smokes Jon has a lighter with a spider web pattern on it He had the strong urge to smoke when talking to Leinter, who was killed on the time he was off Sneak bastard

[@greys.8576]

Take the 69th like for this amazing connection you pointed out

[@hamnahmashood9094]

OH MY FRICKING GOD

[@whomstisthis]

Once I got to this point in the episode I had gained the strong urge to smoke, as I was on my break anyway and decided I would. Odd how even a mention can cause that trigger in your head to switch

[@jakeovsky3587]

Gertrude did mention you can see the webs influence when all the dots begin to connect after the effect

[@krishadyn5211]

​@jakeovsky3587 As Annabelle pointed out, the brain manufactures connections that didn't previously exist. Pattern recognition can be a coping mechanism, creating order out of chaos, even if the pattern is harmful, like deciding you are the reason your parents got divorced.

[@youveupsettheegg3103]

The real monsters were the friends we made along the way

[@jaderush4141]

/Michael, Helen and Gerry waving from behind a non-existent door/

[@purpletear6459]

I still want my f*cking gold...

[@frankie9373]

not-sasha

[@Matheus-ql7mn]

Damn, this hit hard 😅

[@aw3707]

...isnt it, jon? can I call you jon? I'm going to call you jon. *nikola flashbacks*

[@spiraling8388]

legend has it she still doesnt know if she can call him Elias

[@mimkyodar]

"Gee, I sure love how he puts on the voices when he reads the statements"

[@bottledfae1548]

“Haha, that’s our silly little theater kid, he’s so dramatic!”

[@pogchamp3156]

Please I’m not coping yet I’m not over it

[@lyx8039]

@@pogchamp3156 everyday I miss the mechanisms more and more

[@hamburgerdog25]

Ah season one ignorance. I miss that...

[@Q-werty30]

I like to think that he was a theater kid making it easier for him to deny it :)

[@pianoguy222]

"Addiction is one of the strongest vectors of control there is." ...how long has it been since Jon started smoking again?

[@1408alejandro1408]

The lighter!! Holy sh1t! Mother plays the long game

[@amberspark9434]

Oh shit, as a new listener I just realized that connection (though I got spoiled a bit about the lighter)

[@thesorcererwiththepointyhat]

OH SHIT THE LIGHTER I'VE ONLY REALIZED THAT NOW o.O

[@LeoDBW]

End of season 2...

[@Unravy]

OH THE LIGHTER. this is so big brain

[@TheNitpickChick]

I’m pretty sure this is the first time Jon is made acutely aware that he’s at the point where he literally can’t stop reading a statement once he’s started. Most of the time he has no reason to try to stop reading, but I’m 100% sure he tried here and realized he couldn’t. That’s why he was so shaken afterwards. “I didn’t like that. I-I couldn’t...” He couldn’t stop. 😞

[@Amalgemotion]

👀 Terrifying, isn't it?

[@TheNitpickChick]

@@Amalgemotion certainly... eye opening, wouldn’t you say? 👀

[@adrienne-ukulelecraftsandm559]

@@TheNitpickChick SHUT UP / nm 😢

[@kee_do]

"I guess they . . . *bugged* out." Daisy, goddamn, I love this character development of hers

[@broblerone413]

i love how this is the second time someone makes a joke and jon asks "was that a joke??"

[@midnights2631]

Same

[@clovercard22]

Welp, here's to those days when it was all fun and games and I thought the serious no-bullshit archivist might have a guilty pleasure on voice acting. Cheers.

[@TheJuliana0901]

CHEERS

[@luminanightfall4111]

I mean, I think he does. Though it's mostly the Eye. Anyway, CHEERS

[@germanerd6148]

@@luminanightfall4111 The author said in a Q&A that Jon also likes beeing really dramaticy so both

[@luminanightfall4111]

@@germanerd6148 Yes, I meant that too ^^

[@achnav3762]

I miss theatre kid John.

[@amphitritemists4595]

Ending of last episode: stop using your eye powers Jon its creepy Beginning of this episode: hey Jon you see anything helpful with those spooky powers of yours Please make up your mind guys and be nicer to Jon😖

[@just_a_cryptid]

They are fudging hypocrites

[@table2.0]

@@just_a_cryptidliterally they’ve murdered people and he’s “dangerous” for just retraumatising people of horrors he didn’t act on them in the first place. It’s a bit annoying lol

[@nanuqo2006]

@@table2.0then they act all pally with the spiral

[@unslept_em]

I thought annabelle asked "have ever you read one piece, jon?" and I thought I was going to be forced to like her before I realized I misheard

[@blueweirdness4023]

I thought the same thing! I thought she was asking if he was into anime, I was so excited. XD

[@customercareskeleton]

I wish the author had taken the weeb route this one time. "You see, John it doesn't matter if Luffy chose look for the one piece or if he was destined to do it, the true treasure was always the friends he ended up making along the way..."

[@racoon_in_ankhmorpork]

The concept of the Web avatar asking the Eye avatar whether he’s read “One Piece” is so fucking hilarious to me, thank you dearly for putting it in my head 😂💀

[@Eclipse.7897]

That would have made Annabelle an avatar of the Weeb then

[@racoon_in_ankhmorpork]

@@Eclipse.7897 wow, that’s a 10/10 reply if I’ve ever seen one. Thank you for this gem xD

[@fluffsnake]

lmao the transcripts Melanie: (drier than the Sahara) Sorry we couldn't stop for a snack. XDD

[@f_mva]

my favourite is still "pythagorean theorem, volume of a cone" after basira finds jon's rib in the drawer

[@f_mva]

@@everythingcoffee8901 it's a reference to a meme, look up "confused math lady meme"

[@optiona3667]

@@f_mva Whenever I read this I first think "volume", as in the level of sound when you speak, and I think that that just makes the whole "volume of a cone" bit even more funny

[@idk6102]

I love the transcripts dude, they give me life like the statements to john

[@citra1885]

​@@f_mva I can imagine that meme perfectly😭

[@mr.random1442]

Sounds like someone's addicted to archives

[@anerrantecho]

Thanks for calling us all out like that.

[@Ghostrecall_M]

I see doors.

[@daughtersstormcrow553]

He's smoking tapes. It sounds like he's rewinding every time he breathes out.

[@broblerone413]

it's me. that 'someone' is me

[@lyx8039]

@@broblerone413 normalize finishing what should take months in 2 weeks

[@DidTheSquid]

I misheard one particular part of this statement and now I will never be free of the mental image of Annabelle asking Jon, in a deadly serious tone of voice, if he has ever read One Piece.

[@optiona3667]

dude, same. I had to replay the bit again to be sure that the speaker hadn't read the manga for class and was now drawing some deep, philosophical, meaning from it lmao

[@blueweirdness4023]

I've noticed that The Web seems an awful lot like it's linked to storytelling, and if The Eye is symbolic of the audience then perhaps The Web represents the plot of the story? I mean, Jon's realization is that he's important to The Web, and who's more important to the plot of a good story than the main character?

[@pudimlucy3222]

Yeah! I was thinking that the mother of puppets might represent the writers! She who controls all, they who control what the characters do.

[@pudimlucy3222]

Ignore me replying to something 2 years old I'm too invested in this show

[@vaydasmith4839]

@@pudimlucy3222 "spinning a web" wink wink nudge nudge

[@pudimlucy3222]

@@vaydasmith4839 ive finished listening the show and im fucking crying give me a sec

[@Alsarnia]

I think maybe, more than the main character, the reader is more important to a story. (Think of the spider movie with no main character) what's a story with no one to witness it? And that's what the eye is all about.

[@neither_emonor_punk9355]

didn't expect a dive into cognitive neuroscience from a spider devotee. good soup Jon coming to terms with the fact that he *wants* to serve The Eye and doesn't care if it hurts people... chills, literal chills

[@cupcaketv5673]

Ikr that made me as a psychology student pretty happy haha Also agree on the second part

[@mistydevillier2197]

Yes, chills. In a good way, though!

[@blueweirdness4023]

What she said about spiders getting so big that "they're not entirely made of spider anymore," may actually have some truth to it. I read recently in a book called "Putting the Science Back In Fiction" that bugs could never get monstrously huge because their bodies just couldn't handle the mass. I suppose the implication here is that it has a little... help. In true Magnus Archives fashion, it's probably become some kind of hideous amalgamation.

[@allie_678]

I’ve been trying to figure out what that particular sentence means and scanning the comments for theories. 😂

[@blueweirdness4023]

​@@allie_678 ​ @Alicia Jensen I'll gladly tell you a theory or two, but they aren't pretty.

[@dude59974]

Bugs have a size limit because of their limited ability to process oxygen. That's why larger creatures have lungs. It's believed that prehistoric bugs where so big because there was twice the oxygen in the atmosphere than there is today. So if you mix supernatural elements in there, we could speculate that they consume someones lungs and add them to their Cephalothorax. Allowing more oxygen processing, and then add whatever other body parts they feel like too!

[@blueweirdness4023]

@@dude59974 Oh, that's so cool! Thanks for the input! :D

[@mechengr1731]

That idea is making me physically ill, please stop

[@Iquey]

I love dry humor Daisy. "Bugged out" lol.

[@buddyboiwrath488]

I love Jon’s reaction more just “was that a joke?” Just completely flying over his head

[@thegenderfluidthing8660]

theory: maybe the web doesn't want a ritual because the world right now was formed after its ritual succeeded, the way we use language and culture and norms to limit and bind people (ourselves and others), how we often feel trapped in a larger system but can't really do anything because we are given a false choice where there isn't really an alternative.

[@thegenderfluidthing8660]

slightly worse than just being in this situation is apparently our willingness to gaslight ourselves about it, and pretend we get this choice, which is part of the reason why we maintain a system where we don't really get it

[@timmagness7949]

Ooh that would make sense based on the statements where The Web has just straight up eaten people in spider form. It seems to be able to feed more “in person” than most of the other entities, which would make sense if it had already been brought into the world.

[@formerly_human]

Fuck this hits hard

[@biancamlf288]

@@thegenderfluidthing8660 I love this but also the idea of the web being this pro-capitalist, white supremacist, misogynist, etc fear is a hilarious take that I want explored.

[@luxill0s]

Well I suppose anarchy /is/ the opposite of control incarnate. Can I just show Three Arrows or a black flag to the Web and watch it squeal in agony?

[@HeyItsNovalee]

Ok but what if some day he goes “end recording” but the recording doesn’t end

[@daughtersstormcrow553]

You're scaring me, Juno.

[@Companion92]

The Web is so interesting. It is probaly behind a lot of what happened/s in the whole story. And some statements give him energy, some take from him. Seems to depend to which fear it belongs to.

[@riotb4719]

i think gaining knowledge from the statements gives him energy but as he doesnt know how much of it was falsified, it exhausted him to try and learn from it. i am bad at explaining hhh

[@germanerd6148]

I think it´s like doing sports. First your exhausted but on the long run you have more energy

[@rynnziolkowski4642]

I actually think it's part of the system of balance that has been broken by a 15th power.

[@mimkyodar]

@@rynnziolkowski4642 You're assuming that a 15th power exists in its own right at this point.

[@leomorris7573]

"perhaps i have never even seen a beach" gives me more chills than it should

[@polyxenifoutsitsi8827]

This is one of the few episodes that really shook me. Not so much for the horror factor but as to the direction each character is going and how that is going to tie in to the end of the series. There is a long way ahead of people being manipulated but also choosing different paths and I can already tell that it's going to hurt a lot. Gotta give it to Jonny, he writes damn good tragedies.

[@hollynotholy]

I'm still reeling from Once Upon a Time (In Space), that I listened to while finishing my shift at work back in 2019, and couldn't stop weeping. He's excellent with tragedies, indeed.

[@biancamlf288]

@@hollynotholy and just like that I know what I’m listening to after this relisten.

[@RoseMultiverse]

So the web is influencing Jon’s “free will.” 👀👀👀 Well, that’s unsettling!!

[@frostpersonal3758]

i think the point of this episode is that it wasn't? and that jon's decisions were his own ;0

[@RoseMultiverse]

Frost Personal I thought it was both tbh!

[@SwirlyPinwheel]

@@RoseMultiverse Yeah, bit of column A, bit of column B.

[@krishadyn5211]

​@@frostpersonal3758 Well, she started by pointing out that free will is ignorance of all the factors that influence decisions. There are literal scientists who believe this.

[@imbrush]

“But assuming you’ve been paying attention” I WAS TEXTING MY FRIEND AND WAS ZONING OUT AND THEN THAT LINE COMES OUT OF NOWHERE UM FUCK

[@ohnodraino]

"i didn't like that" yeah same here jonny!

[@swagburito9091]

Melanie basira and daisy: asks Jon to use his powers for THEIR help Also them a second later: how dare u charge up your powers your a sick bastard

[@ghostboy3994]

ugh fr

[@nastiatonkaia]

In her defence, I should say that Daisy is the most supportive character so far. She even points out her own inability to stop "hearing blood" before the coffin in the previous ep. Sure, she doesn't protest loudly bc c'm on, feeding off people is still scary af, but she doesn't accuse Jon of giving in his needs as miss King and our detective do

[@lunastroud3610]

"can you see anything" they're all more than happy to use Jon's monster powers but hate that he has to feed

[@conibal5045]

as someone whose favourite tropes of all time are "good people slowly becoming villains/losing it/struggling with being Good" and "people having to deal with the Consequences of their actions", these past few episodes are seriously rivaling season 3 for my favourite episodes lmaooo im repeating all my comments from the last few episodes but i LOVE this

[@parasitone0814]

I love that in the begging of the episode everyone is talking about they need a fire using avatar and I just think *DND THE MAGNUS ARCHIVES*

[@Ghostrecall_M]

Wonder what class everyone is, I think Jon is a Divination Wizard or some kind of Warlock.

[@xultra_violetx]

dnd but its an urban fantasy and everyone is some form of traumatized warlock

[@zecat3727]

@@Ghostrecall_M Knowledge cleric.

[@laissanfelice2739]

@@zecat3727 I have to agree. If you look at the knowledge cleric stuff, it’s all about knowing things magically or extracting information out of people by force. It fits well.

[@DeviBuster]

Well now they're making a tma ttrpg so you were right

[@TheJuliana0901]

honestly having a talk with Annabelle seems delightful, I would love to ask her opinion on some stuff

[@midnights2631]

I just realized Jon always finished the statements, even when he got interrupted, he finished it. He really can't stop, poor dude.

[@amywilson7105]

The Corruption is the power that I'm most afraid of on a primal level, but the Web hits me hard in a more cerebral way. It's absolutely fascinating, but also scary in it's ability to make you Spiral into guessing and second guessing yourself. Fantastic writing.

[@theprideling]

Hard same to both. I can be horrified or fascinated by all the others in a detatched kind of way but those two fears just GET to me from opposite ends.

[@_mel_9953]

CAN WE TALK ABOUT DAISIE’S PUN PLS I LOVE HER

[@quantumblur_3145]

18:23 Spider lady leaves a message about how addiction is a powerful thing

[@1408alejandro1408]

You know who carries a golden spider motif lighter with him at all times? Kind of feels like a certain puppeteer has been playing the long game for a while , what with nicotine being a rather addictive substance, maybe a way to keep a modicum amount of control over John perhaps?

[@helixfeelix4992]

*beginning riffs of vriska's theme intensify*

[@CirisPaint]

@@helixfeelix4992 😭not even the Magnus archives can escape the homestuck

[@ann-margretparke9525]

Tapes are definitely like pointer dogs, if something bad is about, they turn on! Also, Jon realises he wants to do bad things and decides the best course of action is to sleep on it. Still human!

[@achnav3762]

Oh gosh so John can not stop reading a statement after he began ? I remember that he was sometimes interrupt back in season 1 but it didn't happen for a wild! I have a bad feeling about this.

[@Alsarnia]

Old comment, but this made me think of the statements he's recently taken with other people, like Basira or Daisy, in the room with him and how they don't interrupt the statement giver, even if they're opposed to what's being said. I wonder if even witnessing a statement being given to The Archivist puts you under some similar control

[@teaarson]

I got sad when we heard episode 1 again...

[@pyrosianheir]

I didn't think about it until this, but the Web and Eye are probably REAL close allies. After all, one needs to know a great deal to be able to manipulate on the scale that the Web does. Also, OOOOoooofffff... poor Jon... He wanted to believe that he wasn't in control during those few hunts for Statements, but no such luck... well... Kinda. He was, in that he wasn't being actively controlled, but at least it seems like it's been more a matter of having instincts that he hasn't gotten used to yet? At least, such is my hope...

[@hollenka9935]

My heart stopped when she mentioned where she grew up because I'm from that area too. Yarmouth being the location of the Unknowing was one thing but this took me by complete surprise.

[@luxill0s]

Annabelle Cane’s ultimate trick of this episode was almost tricking me into thinking that War and Piece wasn’t as bad as the hellscape of agony it truly was

[@pearlprinssesfan]

Caught up on youtube but I know there's more wish me luck as I binge through this

[@nuggs5509]

Same here

[@thistleywistley681]

Icy Storm i wish you luck

[@pearlprinssesfan]

@@thistleywistley681 I caught up

[@thistleywistley681]

Icy Storm good ((:

[@deadorionn]

see it's funny because jon couldn't stop reading this statement in the same way as i couldn't stop listening to it; i just stopped my work, sat and listened with eyes wide open

[@beans_of_jelly]

Love how the avatars have "traditions" for talking to Jon now, it's like they've made it a game of "who gets to give the Archivist their statement next?". I think they're having fun making him more and more scared

[@Sherylmikk]

"cocoon themselves in red string and theory" is one of the most beautiful sentences I've ever read

[@krishadyn5211]

I know its a reference to conspiracy theorists but I watch too much anime and they refer to the Red String of Fate that connects you to your loved one.

[@ajnapalm]

Jon, I think you'eve had enough statements. Jon: I'LL SAY WHEN I'VE HAD ENOUGH! BUT IS THAT EVEN MY OWN THOUGHTS!?

[@sanguiniue]

I used to live in Hunstanton. I think I know the sand beach they are talking about. Hell I worked there. The fish shop sounds a bit like the old warden HQ

[@rory1336]

:( episode begins with them pushing him into using his spook powers AND shaming him for the cost of those spook powers

[@f_mva]

hey jonny. jonny. what did we do to deserve this. are you the avatar of tragedy or something ;~;

[@klaushargreevesstanaccount8835]

tbh loving annabelle and the Web very much... which is interesting since it is probably among the deepest of my fears. also once again i support jon's right to become an eldritch being and destroy people's lives y'all had it coming. maybe you'll learn not to group bully and abandon someone to feel better about your own traumaaaaa

[@mechengr1731]

Yeah, Annabelle is an interesting character, but the Web is definitely something I fear. But I think I would wind up serving the Eye bc I need to know things. I can't stop myself from watching the next episode bc I need to know how the cliffhanger resolves itself

[@nuggs5509]

Jon Sims is turning into a REAL monster here 😥

[@f_mva]

jonny turn on your location i just wanna talk

[@nuggs5509]

@@f_mva DAMN JON, WE COULD'VE TALK EARLIER

[@frankie9373]

this episode is great and all but also I don't think any dog owner actually believes dogs have no free will. when you live together with a dog for even a week youll notice they have their own characteristics, moods, and everything else. Sorry to be so uptight about that but I know a lot of people who dont own dogs who think dogs only follow commands and cant decide stuff for themselves and that's simply untrue

[@Yohannai]

Oh yeah, especially if you're around smart dogs, its far more obvious. They are very much their own beings who think and make choices. They have personalities, quirks, learned behaviours, fears, unique ways of showing their moods and playing or showing love. Sure there's stuff that comes back often, like a dog wagging its tail to show joy, but just like people how that is expressed can vary a lot depending on the dog. Our rescue puppy took six months to actually relax enough for her to start wagging her tail openly when she's excited or happy. You could tell she loved activities before that, just from how she'd run and jump around, but she would wag her tail very faintly, as though scared to show that she was smiling. Now she's very relaxed in her body language, but you absolutely do see her calculating her options when you ask her to do something she doesn't necessarily want to. She'll listen to you and follow your calls, but because _she_ wants to, not because dogs live purely on instinct. Anyways, I agree with what you said. The only people I think wouldn't get it are those who aren't actually paying attention to their dog properly, as an actual living being.

[@CamilleChauTempsDesCerises]

I'm totally convinced my cat does make a choice when he mioaws to enter via the door even though the window next to it (and that he is perfectly ok to use all the time) is already open

[@waffleaffle231]

​@@CamilleChauTempsDesCerises I'm 100% sure my cat makes the decision to chase a toy. Sometimes she just glances at it and then goes back to whatever she was doing

[@ironstorm1690]

Welp. You know how every person says they have that one statement that gets to them? This is mine. Not necessarily scary, but definitely the one that has hit me the hardest so far.

[@Unravy]

I love how Jon always, or most times, asks if they made a joke

[@radiofyre13]

Me telling my cousin how to succeed in life: as long as no one correctly estimates you then you always have the upper hand. Baby Annabelle: the exact same thing

[@dragonicdoom3772]

I think one of the greatest mysteries of this series is the true nature of The Web, and I think I have the answer. When Anabel asks whether the Mother of Puppets is a grand spinner of schemes and plots, masterminding everything from the shadows, or an ignorant fool who simply tricks people into thinking that everything they've done is part of her grand design, I think the question is a red herring. The Web isn't either answer, it's the question itself. To explain, let's look at The End, a power which is basically the opposite of The Web's true nature: The End is not just the fear of death, but the existential dread of the reality of death. It's the horrible realisation that death is real and inevitable, it's a concrete certainty that cannot be questioned or misinterpreted because the reality is that all things die eventually. The Web is the opposite of The End's certainty: it isn't the fear of knowing you're being controlled, its the fear that you might be controlled without being able to prove whether you are or you aren't. The Web is that paranoia that Jon himself falls prey to here. Questioning your every action and driving yourself mad trying to figure out if your actions are your own or if they were influenced in someway: that is The Web's true nature. It's why The Web is so often associated with substance abuse: drugs and alcohol all lower your inhibitions, leaving you in a state where you can't be certain if you're doing something of your own volition or if its just the drugs/alcohol causing you to do it. Its a mind bending concept to wrap your head around and its why The Web is one of my favourite fears in the series.

[@lordbaphie]

Lol, no views but 2 likes? This is the work of the Web, that's for sure. By the way I can't believe I'm this early, the world is ending after all-

[@Cheshire5174]

do you think perhaps part of the reason this one hurt jon was because The Eye allowed him to see whatever the statement-giver saw in that room? gonna put the spoiler-y bits way down below so you can't see them unless you choose to "but by that point you're away, the rollercoaster's dropping and you just have to hope I don't crash you" annabelle just straight up telling jon "hey people can use your compulsion to read statements against you" like its not the most extreme foreshadowing

[@rotemsosna8893]

John being surprised by Daisy’s jokes again :D

[@nrpbrown]

Easily a top 10 episode, I love Annabelle Crane and the web and the nature of Free Will. So cool

[@_kai2702]

oh heck yeah- an episode about the mind, ‘war and peace’, *and* the web. the vague feelings of existentialism in actually having a choice in anything you do?? not to mention the bit about the summaries. sign me right up. another added to my favourite episodes list.

[@FernIsGay1121]

I like how when Jon reads statements he kind of ‘imitates’ the voice of the statement giver. At first I assumed it was just something the voice actors did, but I think it’s Jon. Maybe it’s the eye, he just knows how it’s ment to sound. Idk but it’s cool

[@lemmetalkaboutthis]

The worst long-lasting punishment we've come up with is isolation. Solitary confinement. Personally, I think this is because humans are pack animals, and we have been for a very long time. Humans very much like to ignore the fact that we do still have some animalistic instincts in us (tho I suppose among the kind of people listening to this kinda podcast, there's a higher concentration of people who would be inclined to agree with me than in the average populace) And now Jon, feeling more and more isolated, isn't dealing well, which you'd THINK is a surprise to nobody, _and yet-_

[@hamburgerdog25]

Something just hit me and I don't know if you guys knew this already but I just figured this out. In season one, episode 38, Jon kills a spider on the wall and that leads to them discovering the hive infestation. I wonder if she put that spider there for that reason

[@arifhossain9751]

Friendly reminder that the Thursday uploads (like this very upload here) corresponds to the upload of a brand new TMA episode on acast and other podcast platforms. So... Free will is an illusion. I'm not surprised. I've known this for years. Every idea anyone ever has is either a direct recycling of an old thought or a mash up of sever old ideas in a vain attempt at "originality". The Web doesn't "control" things. It simply nudges things into places. Sets up the dominos so someone else drops them. Sometimes the whole set of dominos doesn't fall, sometimes a piece was too far off too close to one piece to knock off another. But what if that was intentional in the Web's design? Therein lies the paradox of the Web. Everything is both predetermined by it, and yet still completely random. Maintaining the charade of "free will". Talk about God-complex amirite?

[@amphitritemists4595]

Its like yes you have freewill but the Web makes sure youre still picking one of the choices that they want. I like the gravity analogy because these characters can walk wherever they want but because of the Web none of their options involve floating off into space so their options, all our options, will always be limited directing us to a limited amount of futures for us to choose from. This is one of my favorite episodes now😊

[@krishadyn5211]

Sigh. Absolute Determinism isn't possible. The universe literally flips into full chaos mode at the most fundamental level of reality. The best control will only ever be probabilities based on the most recent dice flip.

[@moonlight_scribe]

Makes me think of how people will sometimes say "But I have this funny little addiction to three meals a day."

[@krishadyn5211]

A doctor who prescribed me addictive sleeping pills kind of shrugged and said sleep is even more addictive. 😅

[@cupcaketv5673]

7:18 This made me happy as a psychology student ^^ It hasn't been long (maybe 3 weeks or so) since we learned about exactly this - the libet experiment.

[@ZeroOhClock]

I love how Jon has 0 patience for puns lol

[@awarlockunkindlyborn1353]

First time listener, and I think Annabelle was lying when she said it had always been Jon’s choice. Not only is it contradictory, it also serves her purpose for him to believe that it’s true. I feel like she was pushing him into accepting it, because it’s much easier to decide to do something if you think the decision has already been made. *“Most of one’s life is simply spent looking back and convincing yourself that you chose deliberately to act like you did.”* After the statement, Jon says he always knew deep down that he wanted to, but Annabelle is practically spelling it out for us that he’s retrospectively rationalizing his actions. Jon having full control over it is just contradictory anyway. She opened her statement by pointing out that he didn’t even have the free will to stop reading. It’s also a bit absurd to say he chose any of this. Sure, I’m about to go eat lunch, but do I really have the free will not to when the alternative is to die? At the very least, the Eye is behind a lot of what Jon does these days. Sad as it makes me, I think it has more control over his body than he does sometimes. I don’t know why yet, but I know the Web is just as invested in Jon becoming the Archivist as Elias is. Getting Jon to accept that he has to feed on people’s trauma is a win for the Web and probably the entire purpose of Annabelle's statement (besides serving as a distraction from whatever else is at Hill Top Road). I noticed Helen prodding him to do the same during their conversation about the Web. Jon was wondering if the Web can influence avatars, and I think this proves that it can.

[@abimungunkhet2748]

John 😥

[@cielle.b3859]

Mom's a spider. That hit too close to home

[@jamesmortimer4016]

Hi Alex!

[@sabnwcj5592]

Listening back 3rd time round, realizing all those times someone says "I don't know why I ____ (grabbed the picture of Gertrude from the busted bottle so I could leave it with you)" or the ex machina of whatever small incident caused their rescue so they could live to make a statement (the wardrobe falling over in submerged to reveal an "anchor" to escape The Lonely for instance) and ya wonder... was there a silk thread there, unbeknownst to the ones involved? A subtle nudge to pay off things later. Get chills just being so caught up in all of this. Truly amazing writing. 🖤🖤🖤

[@89animegirl]

So if Lack of Knowledge is what makes up free will then what does that mean for Jon? It means the more he knows the less he has control over his life

[@maryagrimm8412]

do they just have him locked in the back of a cop car while he's recording

[@dg674]

The part about addiction...ouch

[@noamratner8058]

I had to do a retake because my mine said "who would you read one piece for school?"

[@ishner]

Mr. Spider is attempting a Ritual.

[@joripien]

Doesn't The Web prefer the world as it is?

[@Ghostrecall_M]

​​@@joripien Maybe but, maybe it wants more. Something new... Who knows, the entangling of characters into the web is certainly something that's noticable.

[@jaderush4141]

"Have you ever read War and Peace, John? It’s not actually as boring as people say" Escuse me? I have no problem with spiders, but you have just unleashed my anger (and my inner (or...not very much so) literature nerd). They made us read that in high-school. This was probably the only thing from the program I never managed to finish, and the only time I didn't get perfect grades for Literature. I say fucking burn it. It might not be that god-awful, but I have ptsd or something now, so I ain't touching that. From what I've heard though, its highlights include a three-page description of an oak, a shit ton of French lingo just thrown into it literally for the fancy (bc that's how rich people in Russia talked back then) and everybody dying a miserable death (a true Russian classic, I gotta say). Also, it's 4 volumes long. I don't know how much people from normal countries know about this book, - it's definitely more well-known than anything else like it, at least, - but in Russia and neiboughring countries (ahem, Belarus, ahem) it's every student's personal nightmare basically. If you're looking for a Russian classic that will not make you want to hang yourself (and that's a very rare gem if I do say so myself), I strongly recommend The Master and Margarita. Now that's a thing worth reading. Come @ me, War and Peace lovers. Our Epic Nerd Battle of Literature is gonna be legendary! "I know the summaries have started to confuse you; where did they come from, when you read a statement fresh? How do you just - know what it’s about, before you even start to read it?" Oh holy shit, that's been bothering me for so long, ohmygod! I love it so much when you don't question something simply because you assume it's a literary convension, and then they just. Point it out. Simple as that. Amazing.

[@ZeroOhClock]

As far as I can tell War and Piece is so well known in the world exactly p because of how godawful and Long it is. And for the hipsters (like spider lady here) who go "Ooh I read the whole of War And Peace and it's actually not that bad. It's really good and makes you think huh."

[@lordbaphie]

I have been meaning to read it because my country is too poor to impose on us to read a Russian novel and also because I liked Leo Tolstoy's short stories. It's actually his short stories that we were made to read, and I really liked "How Much Land Does a Man Need?" because it's very horror-y and feels like a possible Web statement where you wonder if it's personal greed or The Devil that lead the man to his fate. Also as a literature nerd I have been long used to rather self-indulgent lengthy descriptions by writers. You want pure aestheticism? Look no further from A Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde. It has a whole 5-6 page chapter of just describing luxuries and other unrelated things in great detail, because Wilde is a frontrunner of the Aesthticism movement. (Still loved that book and Wilde's writing very much though) I also liked this theater play from a short part of War and Peace (forgot the name). So I really won't be easy to judge those who actually like the book as just being pretentious when Leo Tolstoy is legitimately a good writer, and there are enough number of people who actually appreciate the work to even make adaptations for movies and theater plays.

[@jennifermoriarty2188]

I read till page 164

[@ikkimurrell1074]

honestly, war and peace doesn't feel like a book, but as a script for series in historical setting... нет, серьезно, война и мир идет на ура или в формате аудиокниги, когда чет надо на фон поставить, или как сценарий, пушто иначе это настолько чертовски долго прописано во все поля, что хочется дать толстому по литсу чеховской цитатой с размаха ЧИТАТЕЛИ УМЕЮТ ДУМАТЬ ЛËВА ЧИТАТЕЛЯМ НЕ НАДО РАСПИСЫВАТЬ АБЗАЦ ЧТОБЫ ОНИ ПОНЯЛИ КТО ЧТО ПОДУМАЛ сорри нот сорри не смогла пройти мимо

[@krishadyn5211]

​@@lordbaphieTolstoy has some great short stories for kids! Tho I had no idea what a tsar was or why they seemed everywhere when I was a child. I also pronounced it "tissar" in my head. In a secret voice no one hears, I still do.

[@ShayTheBean]

Hearing a mention of the Famous Five series just brought me back to 2nd grade when our teacher would read to us from that series among others.

[@NR-yu5xe]

If the mother of puppets was real I imagine would definitely be either be a buffet of fear fuel for her or the person most dedicated to to being her avatar

[@alphalilly8207]

I just had a thought. What if Jon gets weaker or tired when he reads statements directed to him or about him. Idk dosnt make sense but ehhh.

[@non-bb4756]

It seems he gets stronger or feels better when he reads a statement but I do like this theory

[@SkyP9812]

I know this episode probably has MASSIVE Lore relevance, and also plenty of Checkov's guns to go around, but all I can think about is how ironic it is that the statementgiver's name is only a few letters off being Anabeth Chase and I think that's hilarious

[@ErrorNotFound-nl1sh]

Jonathan _'was that a joke'_ Sims

[@agent_star]

They're really out here just using and abusing Jon. Bad Jon don't eat people, also use your abilities real quick.

[@RoseMultiverse]

Uh oh uh oh the ceiling?!?? 👀 LOTS OF SPIDERS YEPP!!!!!

[@1408alejandro1408]

Can somebody remind me who was Annabelle again, like the fact that John is so certain that they are being watch is not new, from the worm attack back in season 1, it was pretty obvious the spider was trying to help the archives for her own ends but like, I don't remember this woman at all..... was she a part of the arachnids studies , the one that got away? What else am I not remembering?

[@birdbrainiac]

Do you remember the story of the psychology experiment, where they had people focusing spider thoughts on a subject behind glass? And how they all turned into slaves of the subject who climbed spider-like through the broken glass of the window? That was Annabel Crane.

[@1408alejandro1408]

@@birdbrainiac THANK YOU, I just needed some sort of confirmation, sometimes it gets confusing keeping tracks of all the names.

[@THEDSTRTN]

@@birdbrainiac late, but she was also in web development and the puppeteer! (123 and 136 respectively)

[@Charlie_The_Human69]

The "I'm going to call you Jon." gave me chills, don't be so direct girl dayumn /j

[@lilaboxx]

Why did Jon on the first tape that played somewhere sound a little like Elias? Am i crazy?

[@anonymouspumpkin8296]

That sounded like part of the first episode and I believe that at some point Ben Meredith who voices Elias said he based the voice he uses for Elias on Jon's voice, which has changed since season one. So I guess that hearing early Jon now sounds more like Elias?

[@cupcaketv5673]

I don't know when exactly it started but now whenever the statement ends I just feel a slight drop in my stomach, or let out a breath, or something else but it's always such a switch hh

[@madanotap6492]

Guys. You quite literally COULD have stopped for a snack, and a rest or even a full planning session if Basira hadn't emotionally blackmailed everyone into this!

[@mimkyodar]

I do love the bit at 9:40. Unsettling and awesome

[@oak_w00d89]

My first time seeing a video with 10k+ views and 0 dislikes

[@elliebryson6045]

"I don't like the idea of being important to the Web" .../laughs in MAG196/

[@justjjamn4952]

I think this is the first statement that has drained Jon instead of energizing him.

[@alphalilly8207]

I kind of find it ironic that the spider hates fire. But the lighter that Jon carrys around has a spider design on it lel

[@hamburgerdog25]

Last Episode Jon: it felt... Me: don't you dare say it felt good This Episode: Jon: it felt good. Jon how many evil avatar phenomenon do you have to witness to realize that it serves no good? Its literally never once been good?

[@Boinkess]

Just because it felt good doesn’t mean it served good. For example; not meditated murder could feel good but, ultimately, did it truly do any good? No, it makes you have to go on the run, to hide yourself away and hope and pray no one catches you. *feeling* and *being* are two completely different things. It feels good to eat a guilty treat when greedy, feels good to scream in a pillow and maybe tear it a part in anger, to cry in agony, but it does nothing but make you gain a few pounds, destroy a pillow, or lose energy. Him saying this felt good most likely meant, “Yummy treat :)” more than “I hope this is something good for my friends..” even though the latter is his ultimate goal. It feeds the hunger more than serve a grand purpose to help his rather abusive team.

[@ThatOneArchivist]

I love how Jon is an up an coming demi-god of knowledge yet has so little sense of humor that in every other episode where one of them talks he ASKS ´´……was that a *joke?* ´´ LIKE.

[@Mark-fc7tu]

It's a common question of fate and free will. The answer is only as important as you think it is.

[@nanetisydanet]

I am a first-time listener and I don't get how John and the others jumped to the Web so quickly. Just a couple of episodes ago we had this black sun ritual that turned out to be a trick from Elias, and now they are already investigating The Web interference.

[@stevel6360]

They've had their eye on Hill Top Road for a while now, and going to a place where there's suddenly way too many spider webs and no spiders tends to narrow it quickly. None of them know what Elias is responsible for but they're probably safe to assume he has nothing to do with this especially considering anytime Annabelle Caine comes up in conversation he tells them to just leave it