RWBY Volume 7 Chapter 11 | Don't bring my mother into this

[@technology5979]

I like how this episode was basically the culmination of all the anti-Salem forces making a bunch of well-intentioned mistakes.

[@Dragonkid1801]

Thank you. That is the perfect way of putting it

[@Yuki_Ika7]

as a person who makes lots of dumb mistakes in my life i relate to this episode, i can empathyse their struggles here

[@Talguy21]

Something that's worth pointing out is that the catalyst for all of this- the chess piece Cinder left- was done without Salem's orders. They may have planned this attack out before Cinder led the attack on Haven, but Cinder has been out of contact with Salem since then. Cinder made her move purely selfishly, and it was Cinder that gamed Ironwood. Salem obviously capitalized on it, but this division being so perfect isn't something Salem did, even indirectly. Though she may have been thinking enough steps ahead that this was her plan.

[@wheeloftime2698]

no

[@morlock2012]

It's possoble the chess piece was part of the plan for Atlas already. Possibly drawn up before the fall of Beacon, and that the image was broadcast there specifically to set it up as a trigger for *this* stage.

[@wiredjerk]

More than likely it was part of the original plan to play Ironwood, before Cinder went AWOL.

[@TheSkyheart5]

Don't forget about what happened at the end of volume 2, all those White Fang forces they had been preparing for the attack on Beacon got killed or arrested, and instead of throwing a fit because her plan got foiled before it could even be executed, she just took advantage of the political fallout from the breach to play Ironwood like a chump. Hell, she even seemed to prefer him over Ozpin. Cinder knows more about how Ironwood thinks than probably Ironwood himself.

[@fisherdotogg]

Cinder remarks that Atlas was very much not the next target so that Salem even knew to capitalize on this in the first place, to me, says that Cinder is just that predictable.

[@LukaBlight69]

Ruby: What about the council? Darth Ironwood: I am the council! Morally speaking, RWBY is right. Logically speaking, Ironwood is right. Psychologically speaking, Salem has won.

[@TomboTheTornado]

LukaBlight69 I don’t see any good choices now or a way out

[@ThoraxetheImpaile100]

That about sums it up, yeah.

[@ozwell1088]

I don't see how letting you kingdom be wiped out and letting a person bent on world destruction get half of what she needs to destroy the world is morally right compared to saving at least half the kingdom and keeping her from EVER being able to destroy the world.

[@blakechandler167]

Ozwell yeah though I’d like RWBY to be right, I think Ironwood is the good guy here.

[@LukaBlight69]

@@ozwell1088 It's still unethical to toss away lives on an act based upon fear. Ironwood is acting purely on fear and paranoia. Salem, strategically speaking, would be doing herself a solid if she does not show up at all. She'd have the Mantle populace and Ironwood's loyalists at odds with one another. That's her main strength: Divide the opposition and conquer.

[@robertpresley1503]

Uh, yeah, Salem IS coming. Remember Hazel saying "if you want something done, you do it yourself" as she was amassing an army of flying gorilla grimm?

[@salemsremnent1247]

Grimm whale

[@flatsnark2516]

Interesting to note that Qrow used way more punches and kicks in this second fight with Tyrian, after how well it worked in the first fight. Lends credence to the theory that Tyrian can't see very well and relies on hearing the sound of weapons.

[@rikudarkblade2445]

Very nice assumption there, if u look at his fighting style it revolves around his tail being his defense

[@TheCrazydude17]

Another angle at this: people who use their Aura to detect danger are neurologically not going to be as alert to their sight and hearing. Beyond that, the Aura probably highlights the greatest source of danger. So if there's a Megoliath in the area, you're not going to expect someone coming up behind you with a knife. In this case, Tyrian's Aura is probably taken off guard by fists, since they're not that big a deal in comparison to giant scythe swords.

[@TheZero1312]

As we all saw in volume 4: Once Qrow lost his weapon, Tyrian was helpless against his punches and kicks.

[@Erimentos101]

Going by that theory also makes perfect sense how he got distracted by Qrow's scythe spinning in the air, instead of focusing on Qrow himself. I know a few viewers were confused by that, thinking it was a distraction. I genuinely believe tyrion has the most interesting/unique fighting style of the show

[@gazelle_diamond9768]

As far as I know, scorpions have the ability to detect metal in their immediate surrounding. That's probably the reason behind all of that.

[@daysand123]

I'll never stop feeling bad for Ironwood. Him and Yang need one metric fuckton of hugs.

[@AWACS_Snowblind]

When a man's an empty kettle he should be on his mettle, And yet I'm torn apart... Just because I'm presumin' that I could be kind-a-human, _If I only had a heart..._

[@alleyoliver3315]

Even better knowing Ironwood’s semblance now 😁

[@Luna_LU6546]

Ruby: *Lies to Ironwood* Ironwood: "I can't trust you" Ruby: *Pikachu surprised face*

[@dphalanx7465]

So who of these authority figures _is_ she supposed to trust? _Ozpin!? Lionheart?!?_ The Leadership of Remmnant has FAILED their Protectors! Ironwood has been reduced to a hypocrite that has gone full facsist to cover his own ass. See the latest two vids from PhoenixNight that do a fantastic analysis of why Ironwood's "cut & run" will permanently isolate Atlas...and doom Remmnant.

[@shadowangel3995]

Matheus Mariano, I agree and as Yang pointed out, he lied about the tower with Robin’s help to draw out Watts and Tyrian. So locking down team RWBY is an example of how off and paranoid he has become.

[@Luna_LU6546]

@@shadowangel3995 flashback from call of duty Modern warfare 2 General Shepherd's betrayal because of the massacre at "shock and awe" "Five years ago, I lost 30,000 men in the blink of an eye, and the world just fuckin' watched. Tomorrow there will be no shortage of volunteers, no shortage of Patriots. I know you understand." - lieutenant general Shepherd

[@justinr1513]

@@shadowangel3995 how did he get that lie past Robyns semblance?

[@shadowangel3995]

Justin R, if you notice the camera goes to a close up on his face when he says it not a wide shot.

[@katjones9849]

Regardless of the moral debate, Ironwood has been shown to value three things above everything else throughout this whole volume; duty, loyalty, and trust. And being that a team who he gave his undivided trust and support to lied to him twice, I think it’s reasonable that he’d lose all faith in Team RWBY. His plan is iffy at best, but no one has offered any kind of alternative solution. Ruby’s only argument here involves trying what has already been stated to be impossible in the given time frame. I get where you’re coming from, Arryn. No doubt, he’s scared shitless but I don’t think he’s trying to save himself. I guess I have a much more sympathetic view of Ironwood, especially since he voluntarily ripped the skin off his arm just to take out Watts.

[@fullmetal_3961]

The problem was, he was trying to buy their trust instead of doing things that would make RWBY trust him, until episode 9/10. As we saw in this episode, he even had a failsafe to cut comms meaning he didn't entirely trust them either.

[@technology5979]

@@fullmetal_3961 I mean, being completely upfront about what he was planning the moment they arrived in his office seemed like it might earn some trust, as would allowing them to keep the lamp and explaining his reasoning every time they questioned his plans. You could also make the argument that he wasn't trying to buy their trust so much as he geniunely thought they had earned their Huntsman and Huntress licenses.

[@ozwell1088]

@@fullmetal_3961 Nor should he have. Team RWBY also didn't trust him and kept secrets from him that they really REALLY should have told him day 1. Ironwood tried to earn team RWBY's trust, but team RWBY didn't try to earn his.

[@roelcortez785]

OK but he didnt have to rip his skin off tho. Literally couldve just crushed the rings with his robot hand and deactivated the hardight shield. Either ironwoods iq dropped during that time or the writers iq did.

[@ozwell1088]

@@roelcortez785 The writers' IQ has always been low ever since volume 4 onwards.

[@Taizen001]

I love everything about Ironwood's development in this volume, and especially his turn in this episode. This isn't a turn of him becoming evil, but one where he's finally pushed to the breaking point and gives in fully to the belief that he need to sacrifice whatever it takes to save whoever he can. Even if it means people will die and the survivors will see him as evil I don't think he's evil, or that he's even a bad guy per se. He's wonderfully complex

[@josephjones4771]

When you want to win a war, you must be prepared to make sacrifices. To sacrifice the innocent, the guilty and even humanity itself, for every advantage to be gained. But that's the thing about winning, in the end, when you stand in the ashes of all you've sacrificed, it'll always make you question if it was worth it.

[@MayaNatsune]

If you sacrifice humanity as you put it, then what are you fighting for? There will be no one left and so no reason to need to 'win'.

[@josephjones4771]

@@MayaNatsune Not the entirety of the human race, although that is an option. But rather your metaphorical humanity, your heart, your soul.

[@H34rtofFire]

If you defend everything, you defend nothing. Hard as it might be to accept, in the real world, Ironwood would be in the right. Team RWBY's idealism would end up getting everyone killed. But hey! Least they'd all die together, right? But we all know that's not the direction the show's going to go. Much as I hate it, Ironwood is destined to fail and become the bad guy, because how dare he be willing to actually sacrifice for the greater good.

[@Jake-lu2bv]

@@MayaNatsune The phrase throwing away your humanity means that you throw away your feelings and morals and focusing on doing what you can to protect what you can. Idealism sounds good until you try to apply it to these types of situations where it would inevitably lead to your own demise

[@subsonic6642]

There's a major flaw in Ironwood's plan though, Atlas can't mine Dust from the sky. All of the technology in RWBY is based off of Dust, it's practically necessary for survival. So this city in the atmosphere plan is dooming Atlas to a drastic regression in technology as people have to learn how to live without Dust. All while the world burns below them.

[@davidkistler6749]

You said Ruby couldn't be remembering that scene of Summer on the cliff. But what if she could? My theory is that those are repressed childhood memories. It fits perfectly with Ruby's reaction to Salem's reveal and with the shot from the Volume 1 opening of Ruby sheltering behind Summer until Summer disintegrates.

[@Mirality]

She does remember it herself, somehow, because she also saw it in the V6 finale.

[@fullmetal_3961]

@@Mirality There was a theory that Jinn showed Ruby that memory of Summer, and if that is true, it could be possible that Salem did the same thing here. Magic is wild lol

[@tadsfa]

I think both were probably just her imagined images of her mother. She's obviously seen pictures of Summer Rose, so she knows what her mother looks like. The scene in V6 is what I think her idealized image of her mom is: a strong, shining huntress, smiling at her daughter while standing in front of a beautiful sunrise. And with only a couple words, Salem knocked that image into a more gritty and "realistic" view. Its basically the same scene except now Summer looks sorrowful and the entire background is grey clouds. I really don't think two distinctly similar scenes with such different changes in the tone are things that actually took place. To me they both appear to be Ruby's thoughts on her mother in response to the situations she was in. In V6 she conjures up her own version of Summer: a warm and loving vision of her mother to boost her silver eye powers. In this episode, Salem mentions her mom and alludes to killing her, corrupting Ruby's idealized image of Summer and causing her powers (which Ruby herself attached to that particular image of her mother) to seemingly misfire. Yes, Ruby knew logically that Summer died and was more than likely killed. But here she got smacked down with it and face to face with her mothers likely killer, she realized that her romantic image of her mom is less accurate than the cold hard fact that her mother is DEAD and it probably wasn't a pretty end.

[@nordiques3875]

This makes sense

[@namelessred8445]

Iornwood's trying to do the best he can, and while his plan is far from ideal it's the only plan anyone in that room has. Team RWBY don't have a plan to actually save Atlas OR Mantle they just plan to fight and hope for the best in all honesty. At least Iornwood has a plan to save the People of Atlas and the people of Mantle who have already been evacuated. Once again that does not mean I'm condoning him leaving Mantle to die. The way I see it in this particular instance both sides are right AND wrong. Morally speaking RWBY are 100% in the right while Iornwood is in the wrong however Outside of morrals Team RWBY are not right because they are putting everyone at risk of certain death by trying to stay and fight while Iornwood would at least be able to save a vast majority of people. Iornwood is a man who wants to save as many as he can but he's run out of options at this point. He's not just trying to save himself, in fact if he could he'd sacrifice himself to save everyone, and he's certainly not looking out for revenge either. Also I'm certain that Salem is actually on her way to Atlas because last Volume even Tyrian was talking to Emerald and Mercury he mentioned how him and Watts were being sent to Atlas in order to "prepare" and we also have the post credits which futher hints that she's really coming

[@TheSkyheart5]

The big problem Ironwood has right now isn't morals or practicality, it's that his plan is exactly what Cinder is expecting. She's already following Winter right to the maiden, and instead of trying to hunt her down or provide extra protection to them, we got RWBY: Civil War going on instead. Trying to save who he can is about to get everyone killed.

[@abaddonarts1129]

@@TheSkyheart5 Yes, it's true that Cinder is expecting it, but it's better sending Winter to claim the power than leaving her undefended. I agree with OP, both sides are right and wrong.

[@TheSkyheart5]

@@abaddonarts1129 True enough...I'm just a bit too meta-aware to try too hard to defend Ironwood. This is RWBY after all, not Game of Thrones. Heroes engaging in ruthless pragmatism aren't going to be rewarded in the end, possibly not even vindicated.

[@H34rtofFire]

@@TheSkyheart5 My exact problem with how the series has been going. By all accounts, Ironwood has indeed been doing the best he could. And given the limited knowledge he's been granted, he's honestly been making better decisions than virtually all of the other protagonists. "He who defends everything, defends nothing", after all. Problem is, Team RWBY has the plot on their side. So as naive as they might be, the show will ultimately side with their idealism over Ironwood's practicality. Were this the real world, Ironwood's methods would be seen as harsh, but effective. But for the sake of the story, he's instead destined to be the bad guy.

[@subsonic6642]

Here's what happens, Atlas gets raised into the atmosphere, the artificial climate keeps them safe. Vacuo is left alone against Salem without team RWBY, without Atlas and without knowledge of what's coming; Vacuo falls. Sure, Atlas can stay up in the air for a while, but eventually they'll run out of dust and they have to come back down. Salem will be waiting for them and Atlas is alone; Atlas falls.

[@oceandragoon3099]

I don’t think you can say that Ironwood is saving himself. His entire song is about how he’s willing to sacrifice himself for even the slightest advantage against Salem.

[@GooglyGook12]

*Yet* that song was before he underwent his worst PTSD episode. Also we have no idea if the rest of the song is going to showcase his meltdown.

[@namelessred8445]

Not sure you noticed but She's been very critical and untrusting of Iornwood and the Ace Ops since the Volume started

[@blackvial]

@@namelessred8445 and they've done nothing wrong, it is Team RWBY that has been betraying their alies

[@crazygamer4260]

@@namelessred8445 and it feels kind of unfair because Ironwood is trying to do the right thing he is trying to help people but he gives into his fear and PTSD too much and that's what happened here Salem's on her way a being he was told was unkillable and is the most powerful thing in existence so his reaction to it is I'm going to launch the entire city into space and anyone who goes against me is a criminal.

[@blackvial]

@@crazygamer4260 well he can't trust any of the kids or Qrow because they lied to him multiple times about mission critical intel and leaked top secret info to someone who hasn't been vetted. In the real world that would also get you arrested

[@justpollux8420]

"The difference here, Watts, is that you're really much more of a twink." I genuinely laughed out loud

[@lordvanazir1007]

Ruby: You have failed before It's not very effective Salem: your momma! Its super effective

[@veltronix2966]

You know, Ironwood is not saving himself, it is very clear that he would be willing to die to uphold his ideals, as seen by his determination when Watts trap him with the hard light dust and also the lyrics in his song say as much, like: "I would die~ Without regret I offer up life~"

[@salvadorgarcia9897]

“Their iron gloves point fingers! They’ll wage a war of blame! And mankind will wilt, in, paaaaaain.” -Casey Lee Williams

[@abaddonarts1129]

It's always amazing to see how the lines hidden in the plot are important both then and now.

[@manumainio]

"Mirrors will shatter, crushed by the weight of the world, as pillars collapse in shame." Really fits Ironwoods mind at the moment in my opinion.

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

-- Cinder Fall

[@PrismOpal64]

Ruby: *gets on her soap box to preach about the power of friendship again* Salem: yo mama Ruby: *breaks down in utter defeat*

[@cinnabarsorcerer8970]

This is quite the opposite of the orginal! - Wizard of Oz (Ozpin), *with real magic!!*, loses - Lion (Lionheart), without courage - Tinman (Ironwood), without a heart - Evil witch of the east (Salem), winning

[@madtophatter1020]

Does that mean qrow will lose his mind? 🤔

[@cinnabarsorcerer8970]

No, i believe that Theodore, the headmaster of shade academy, will be nased of the scarcrow from the tale. Just like Ironwood is the Tinman and Lionheart the lion.

[@fullmetal_3961]

@@cinnabarsorcerer8970 Qrow has been confirmed to be the Scarecrow.

[@cinnabarsorcerer8970]

But who is Theodore than? P.s.: maybe Summer Rose was "Doroty"!

[@raziel7148]

- Good witch of the south (Glynda), missing in action

[@Gokving]

at the end-credits scene of Vol 6, Hazel did mention "if you want something done right, do it yourself". This could mean Salem IS indeed coming. Also, during Vol 6, when Tyrian talked to Mercury and Emerald, he said he and Watts were being sent to Atlas "to prepare"

[@boohoo723]

Ironwood has an interesting mentality in that because HE is willing to sacrifice everything, he thinks everyone else is too.

[@lillithyukiutacrow2532]

As someone who's had my share of breakdowns Ruby's acting is *ACCURATE*... yeah i cried a bit😅

[@TheCrazydude17]

The fact that people were criticizing Ruby and the writers for all the Talk No Jutsu, and then Salem just turns around and no-sells it like a champ, proves that CRWBY are capable of great things.

[@andregonzalez9848]

I wouldn’t be so happy with such transparent YOMAMA line though, it’s almost like they threw it in and then she gets over it immediately after and then we get into a standoff with the Aceops

[@TheZero1312]

Well, she knows that, in that moment, she needs to be collected and thus put her grief aside.

[@aceofspade2120]

After the after credits scene from season 6, we know she created an army to attack Atlas. They have, as far as they know, three of Salem's four generals confirmed, including a maiden, her arguably most powerful one overall. She knows about the situation in Atlas because of Watts and the seer Grimm, you didn't know about Watts and Tyrion hours ago, then just found out Cinder is already in Atlas, IN YOUR OFFICE, taunting you. So it's not wild to think Hazel is here somewhere. Which, in all honesty, means that Oscar should have been the immediate focus as he carries Ozpin and the Relic. Hazel is alive, he escaped with Emarald and Mercury. As for Cinder, she sent Neo after Oscar and the relic, so she can also get the Winter Maiden and the spear relic too. Salem, from her view and anyone else, took a major loss Beacon (all that work, no relic still), & Haven (lost all the players involved or they were completely beaten). So now she can get two relics, collect two maidens (her daughters), wreck Atlas and Ironwood, and collect her people. It's a win-win.

[@Xardion55]

"Now this... _This_ is much closer than what I was expecting." (Qrow - Episode 1) He was not kidding... -Watts vs. Ironwood The battles/fights in RWBY never seem to disappoint. Watts using the terrain to his advantage, a gunfight/hand to hand battle, plus Watts almost outwitting Ironwood, only for Ironwood to show just how far he is really to go to beat Salem and her forces...And then you add a new theme song... Yep, instant epic. I do believe Watts is alive though. As much as it would be easy to just drop him into the lava, Watts would have information that Ironwood would want. It was the same way as to why he imprisoned Torchwick. But I do wonder, why did Ironwood bring Watts' bag with him without checking it out first? Seems like something that should have been done before he brought it with him. Would have saved him a jump-scare... -Black Queen(s) Cinder seems to be using the same tactic as before in order to locate the Winter Maiden that she used to find the Fall Maiden in Beacon. Using the fear and panic from others to manipulate them into showing their hand so that she could just find the Maiden and kill her. She really is Salem's apprentice... It may be that though, that Cinder is still operating on her own outside of Salem. She's merely using the situation to advance her own plans and Salem's forces just happened to be there. She had to switch tactics to do that and fortunately for her, the situation was one she could capitalize on. The scene with Salem just shows the true terror of her by her presence alone. Before these, the only time anyone else has seen Salem was either from visions (Jinn) or illusions (Emerald) or from what other say about her. But her speaking with the teams directly and how she affected them shows the true strength of fear she exuded. Even when she was talking to Ironwood (with a smile no less), it was clear than he was afraid of her. And Ruby... as bravely (and awesome) as she spoke out against Salem, all Salem had to do was speak of Summer and Ruby broke down. -Short Circuiting Eyes We already know that Ruby has yet to master her powers, but this shows a greater limit than thought. A slight theory... her eyes may only work best with a clear and pure mind. When she used them against the Leviathan Grimm as well as the Apathy Grimm and Cinder, she didn't seem to suffer from any damaging effects. But in the case with Pyrrha's death, she was knocked unconscious for several days. Now perhaps it may be because that was the first time she used them, but it may also be possible that in a situation where it is too late to save someone, there is a backlash against the bearer, possibly perhaps from negative emotions, or powerful emotions? So Silver Eyes = Mangenkyo Sharingan…? -Breakdown Ironwood is playing right into Salem's hands... Between the panic caused by Cinder, the fear caused by Salem declaring her imminent attack along with everything else and he has lost control. Ironwood is good on fighting in the midst of a crisis, but when it comes to a perceived threat, he is quick to make pre-emptive (and hasty) moves, without knowing where the threat is coming from. _"Why must your answer to everything involve a triumphant display of military bravado?!" (Glynda, Volume 2)_ He did have a point about what Ruby did. Even though they did tell him the rest of the truth, it came at the worse time. But he could have dealt with it once the current crisis was dealt with. But with the threat of Salem's attack, he's been pushed from panic to paranoia and now he's making rash decisions. Ironically, he is doing exactly what Ruby and the others was worried he would be. _"...He's a bit prone to overreacting." (Blake - Episode 7)_ Ruby even pointed out that uniting the world was their real chance, but Ironwood only cares about protecting Atlas, willingly sacrificing Mantle in the process. What's really interesting is that he used the same words that Cinder used the previous episode. In a way, it shows the viewers that Salem (and Cinder) are truly one step ahead of him. So now a fight between team RWBY and the Ace-Ops, plus we don't know how Clover will react, and add to the fact that Tyrian is there, plus Cinder is on the way to the Winter Maiden and Oscar is missing and...yeah... Volume 3 all over again...

[@pennygillespie883]

When works been stressful and daddy snaps

[@BlazingInfernapemusicfanatic]

i think ironwood isnt in the wrong, he is a GENERAL, and he is trying his best with the cards he is dealt, especially the people he was supposed to trust were hypocrits, and lied to ironwood even though they yelled at ozpin for doing the same thing

[@TterminusS]

I kind of don't like that some people can't see both sides in this moral dilemma. Its impossible for me to not see this situation as what it is - a simple loss-loss. You need to decide between two evils. Do I let Mantle die and save what is absolutely vital to the survival of all of humanity (the two (out of 4) relics that are currently here) or do I somewhat naivevly believe I can save everyone and potentially risk letting those two things (or 3 things with the Maiden) fall into the hands of the enemy? Like sure, Salem is just manipulating people and I would never trust a word she says. But you have to stop thinking like the person looking at this from the outside with all the meta-narrative knowledge that a viewer has and need to set yourself into the position of the people there. ITs not as simple as Ironwood "being the bad guy" or "clearly being in the wrong" here. In fact, there is a point to be made that despite him clearly panicing and getting paranoid, he is still making the more logical decision in this situaion. The more or less heartless, cold-logic win-loss calculation of an actual leader (Ironwood) is clashing with the blind naivety and optimism of an idealist (team RWBY) here. And you heard the ace ops. They didn't say "he ordered it and thats why we do this", they justified it pretty well. The odds of them defending Mantle are slim, and if you just look at one fight and loose sight of the bigger picture your could loose it all. At the same time I do understand team RWBYs ideal and I know it comes from the right place. Hell, maybe their plan (whatever they would have done) would have ultimately worked better. One thing is true though, no matter how it otherwise could have went, they would have come out with losses out of this whole mess. Really don't like the "I never liked Ironwood" sentence, no offense. It just makes it appear as if you'd be saying "I always knew he was the bad guy" like hes done something clearly wrong or stupid. Which he definitely has not. Moral dilemmas like these have been studied all throughout psychology for decades and even to this date it is consensually understood that neither of the two choices presented in such dilemmas are "the better choice".

[@theycallmebad]

You're forgetting that Ironwood lied as well and also don't trust anyone.

[@BlazingInfernapemusicfanatic]

theycallmebad I agree, but I think it is because he was lied to, I should have worded it better. I think he isn’t in the wrong, totally. I think both are in the wrong and BOTH sides have SOME points

[@SeerOfTime577]

Arryn after the episode ends: *Spewing expletives* Me: Same.

[@Much_Ado]

I'm not sure where you're getting the vengeance thing from Ironwood, if it was a vengeance thing I'm pretty sure he'd be doing what Team RWBY wanted, and stand his ground. I'm also very certain that he's not saving himself. The Council is gonna tear him apart (figuratively) if he manages to do his plan, and the people of Mantle that have been evacuated are gonna tear him apart (possibly literally). That whole scene with Ironwood saying that he will sacrifice whatever it takes to stop Salem is our cue to see that he is absolutely including himself in that statement. He doesn't care about what happens to himself, all that truly matters to him is Salem not winning. Now, whether his plan will help Salem or not is a different story, but Ironwood saving himself is like the *last* thing I think is on his list of priorities.

[@blackvial]

Arryn has had a strong anti-Ironwood bias for quite a while

[@Much_Ado]

Oh I'm aware, and I think that's fine, but I just want to make sure its for the right reasons. I think the "he's playing right into Salem's hand" thing is a very valid point, he is doing exactly that (although I do think it's weird to say he's not considering that Salem might want what he's doing to happen, considering he got to his plan directly from freaking out about Salem maybe wanting what they'd been doing, but eh). The "why aren't you checking security to see if Cinder is around, what with her leaving a calling card in the building" point also makes sense to me. I think the biggest thing to realize about the whole situation is that regardless of what you think about Ironwood, he is the only person to propose a fully fledged plan. "Stand our ground" isn't a plan, it's an idea. Until someone comes up with an actual plan that's better than what Ironwood has, the only way to stop him will be to kill him.

[@blackvial]

Team RWBY'S plan pretty much boils down to fighting it out and hope we win against overwhelming odds, exhausted forces, and way too many civilians to protect. Short sighted as it is Ironwood's plan has the highest chance of success.

[@Much_Ado]

Which of course it does, cus its the only plan.

[@Mirality]

They have no idea how close Salem's main forces are, or even if they're coming at all (other than Cinder being there - and they don't know she's acting on her own). Ironwood's plan isn't a bad one under the circumstances, but he needs to wait so they can evacuate as many people as possible.

[@billettboy9551]

It's all Ruby's fault for lying in the first place she didn't like ozpin lying that's karma

[@technology5979]

To be fair, Ruby was probably the least angry about Ozpin lying to them of the team. So it's not surprising she'd also be the first to try out those tactics.

[@dphalanx7465]

I think the RWBYs get a pass here. People forget what had to have been a _HUGE_ social shock that Lionheart, one of the Four Headmasters (symbolic defensive pillars of Remmnant) had been a toady to the Dark Goddess all along! If I'd gone through the Haven debacle, _I_ wouldn't be inclined to trust any authority figures further than I could throw them. On top of which...the Ozpin mess. People dont seem to realize that when he says that he didn't tell people certain things to prevent them faltering or questioning him...the implication is there that he was _essentially throwing them under the bus_ to hold off Salem for another Generation. With no end in sight...

[@jaronpage6588]

@@dphalanx7465 That reason works for Ozpin too though? Lionheart was his friend, and turned on him for Salem after knowing each other for years the betrayal is deeper for him, and he directly stated it wasn't the first time that had happened to him. Years and years of that happening will make you cagey, so how does that reason fly for rwby but not oz? As for the throwing them under the bus to hold off Salem, I can't answer to that. Right now that's pure speculation, I will say with the exception of Oscar they all signed up to be Huntsman and Huntresses a profession literally advertised to be holding off the Grimm as long as you're alive. Unless they were completely delusional none of them signed on with the thought that "I will be different than the millions of older, faster, stronger, more skilled, more experienced people that have fallen to the grimm and be the one who saves this world". Even if they were delaying for the next generation their mission literally hadn't changed from when it was "hold off the creatures of grimm for the safety of others and the greater good". Even without Salem in the picture they most likely would have died in their line of work anyway. I'm not saying they should be glad to be cannon fodder, but they technically already were the minute the decided to be in this line of work so it shouldn't come as a surprise. And all of that is moot anyway since there is no proof that Ozpin even sees them as cannon fodder to begin with. It did say in his backstory he learned the importance of living with his vessals, he probably values peoples lives more than anything to be honest. Why else would he maintain the status quo for so long with the academies and not try to make any major moves against Salem.

[@FrellowMe]

Ironwood’s plan is kinda dumb, Salem could just starve them out while not expending any resources other than aerial grimm(which she can create more of on a whim? I have no clue lol) and you’d be keeping two relics and a winter maiden in one place making atlas the focus of all of Salem’s advances or anyone else who wants the relics powers.

[@blackvial]

From what I understand Atlas has food growing areas so they wouldn't be starved out

[@joshualopez7035]

True, but we don't know if Atlas has a food source inside the city itself. They use the city of Argus as a main trading hub between Atlas and Mistral, but Atlas survived before that. We don't know enough to say if its dumb or not. I doubt Ironwood is making this decision lightly, and we don't know how much time there was between him entering his office and RWBY & the Ace-Ops entering.

[@TheFlashzie]

”The city’s artificial climate will keep citizens and food supplies unharmed”. It’s right there lol.

[@FrellowMe]

blackvial yeah you’re right, having gone back and watched it food might not be a major problem, however they could still be starved out with other resources like dust while constantly fighting off grimm. I just don’t think burdening a small city in the sky is the best route to take, calling for the aid of other kingdoms would be the most beneficial in the long run.

[@FrellowMe]

Flashzie Yeah I know, but thanks for correcting my point. Food isn’t the only resource they could be starved out with; while keeping the city airborne is covered by the relic they would still need dust to fight off any Grimm attacks. If I missed anything about sustainable dust supplies then please correct me so I can feel dumb about something that’s been explained in the show.

[@dashingkevs3295]

Ironwood definitely made the smart play. Everyone saying they need to save everyone is looking at it from their perspective not the character. Guarantee saving half is better than losing it all

[@dphalanx7465]

See PhoenixNight's latest two videos, where he does a very cognizant analysis of Ironwood's "run away" plan...and logically concludes that Capt. Overrection has _doomed_ Atlas in the short run...and all of Remmnant in the long run.

[@sadi5713]

I agree with both Ironwood and RWBY.

[@theycallmebad]

His plan is not realistic in the long run.

[@dashingkevs3295]

By going up to the atmosphere it basically means salem cannot win.

[@blackvial]

@@theycallmebad staying and fighting isn't realistic either

[@YouAnd_OnlyYou]

Why does no one talk about how Qrow used his weapon this episode?

[@KingKaiju58]

Right? That may have been his upgrade.

[@TheZero1312]

So he can fight with both the gun and the blade simultaneously.

[@dragonrune6800]

The seer Grimm was in Watts' bag as a communication device for Watts and Tyrian to talk to Salem. Salem used it at what she thought was an apropos moment. Cinder will kill Fria, but the power will go to Winter anyway. THEN we get a Winter v Cinder fight.

[@sephisgamingworld1848]

isnt it possible that the ultimate plan was to stop the amity tower going live? in s5 or 6 they said they would have no chance when vacuo and atlas would work together ("lost cause" i think was the wording)so i thing nothing will happen in atlas at this point. salem will attack vacuo cuz without amity (i think her plan was to force ironwood to use it for atlas) no one can help and it will fall. would make sense "chess game" wise. the shut down on the long range alarms just plays perfectly into ironwoods paranoia without actually having to "act" on it to have an effect. p.s.: i like ironwoods decisions, they make sense and i think he has no time nor space to think "outside the box", he has to act and he has to decide now. maybe he even knows that he could be played but actually...what could he do against it? at this point he has to hope that it is the right decision.

[@blackvial]

Ruby got shut down with a Yo mama.

[@TheZero1312]

Wouldn't shut down you in her position?

[@jakeperez8242]

I'm excited to see your hard work in becoming an animator come to fruition

[@Blaiseingfire]

Stay and defend Mantle: thousands will die in the coming battle and you risk losing everything. Leave Mantle, the kingdom live but you condemn thousands to death. It's a no-win situation. Many will die no matter what, but at the end of the day I have to agree with Ironwood. I do hate the fact that he'd abandon mantle and most of the people they haven't evacuated to Atlas, but there is 0 guarantee they stand a chance against Salem (they won against her minions, but not against Salem herself, who can't die), and you at least guarantee Atlas survives.

[@blackvial]

Tactically speaking he is making the right choice

[@KonathaoSoberuNartio]

"See the difference here, Watts, is while you can control the environment you are much more of a twink" *immediately spits my milk and cereal through my nose*

[@kalamari3288]

"I AM doing the right thing! I'm not deserting." -Agent Carolina, Project Freelancer

[@bobbrown6394]

Everyone was pressuring him he has Salem on his nuts rwby is making him doubt the people around him

[@Stark-Raving]

The scene with Ruby standing behind the Headmaster's desk and Ironwood walking away is some of the best visual storytelling of the show. Ruby's upholding the intended purpose of the station, while Ironwood is walking away from it.

[@matthewriddle2698]

I have a compromise that while not solving everything, is at least a better plan. Ruby: We need to stay and fight, hold out until we can call for help! (Morally right but disregards Ironwood's forces are exhausted and we have no idea how much more time spent working on Amity it would take to finish the tower, plus the forces needed to protect it as it ascends to the atmosphere will leave Atlas AND Mantle both more vulnerable. Ruby, you all are skilled huntresses and huntsmen worthy of respect, but Salem's army will be coming fresh and READY for war, while your own side will be lucky to last a few days at this rate.) (Note: Or just below it the Atmosphere? Forgot the cut off point when dust stops working on Remnant, but I know past the atmosphere is definitely no go for dust to keep working.) Ironwood: We need to apply our plan for Amity to Atlas, keep the relics out of her reach! (Yeah....NO. That would be worse than Ruby's plan not only morally, but practically. You'd need dust to power everything including the bio dome and artificial atmosphere allowing you all to breathe easy up there, which you have a finite source of. Anytime you try to take dust from those mines the grimm will be waiting in HUGE numbers, while you left Vacuo all alone as Salem will refocus her army on them. Once Vacuo is crumbled and the Sword of Destruction is in her hands, Vale and Mistral will be easy pickings before she decides to finish off Atlas with the Sword of Destruction or simply keeping your troops from getting any more dust, waiting for you all to DROP from your lofty perch high in the sky.) My idea that I learned from others who thought this before and I have to agree with them tactically is better: Use the Staff of Creation to move Atlas over to Vacuo, this way the last two strongest academies left can stand united to hold off Salem while getting the tower up and running. Trying to spread word to Vale and Mistral for help. At least this way they have TWO headmasters working together, two schools worth of Huntsmen and Huntresses in training, along with professional huntsmen and huntresses, and two nations worth of firepower working hand in hand together. After all, even Tyrian said "If the general comes to his senses and gets aid from Vacuo, All Will Be Lost!" Salem realizes those two working together would start a movement of unity for the whole world and they want to prevent that!

[@keithharper32]

Fun thing I saw: apparently those multi-directional gravity platforms were originally to be used for one of the tournament matches in V3. Between Sun/Neptune and Nora/Pyrrha I believe. Unfortunatly the fight got cut for time

[@TheZero1312]

But I think they were used in the fight CRDL vs. Team Penny in V3.

[@eitanlubowitz520]

You had the same reaction as I did! Sees Ironwood's arm, Deku!?!? Really went all Plus Ultra with that end 😂

[@edmundfreeman7203]

Ironwood has one big flaw. He only thinks in terms of 'defeat things with the Atlas army'. That's a common problem with generals.

[@Toadofsky100]

This whole volume could be dubbed: "Everybody makes the wrong choices constantly."

[@helvarstark4282]

8:25 ITS OVER WATTS! I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND

[@oscarstainton]

This episode is where the "Irondaddy" memes go to die... now that version of him only lives in fan art and fanfiction.

[@daysand123]

No. Hes still my Irondad. And many others agree

[@H34rtofFire]

No. I've always agreed with his decisions, and this episode is no different. We all know the story will ultimately prove him wrong, because reasons. Doesn't mean I'll put the blame on him, no matter how much the writers may want me to. Not his fault he's not the protagonist.

[@daysand123]

@@H34rtofFire I doubt itll write him as completely wrong. Considering the way the Volume has been very adamant on there being no clear cut right or wrong answer.

[@Kriosaivak]

#IronwoodDidNothingWrong

[@blackvial]

he did do something wrong, he trusted Team RWBY

[@Kriosaivak]

blackvial Okay, yeah, I guess he did do one thing wrong.

[@Zarola]

I don't see why the anti-Ironwood. He is sacrificing everything to try and keep Salem at bay. If the Council wants to "look good" they would say "OH we had no choice but to abandon Mantle" and crucify Ironwood after this all blows over. And we as the viewer can see all things. He has been betrayed by almost everyone at this point. Ozpin didn't tell him everything. Qrow, RWBY, Oscar, and JNR kept important information from him and leaked stuff that he made clear WHY it was a military secret. He gave them the keys to the kingdom so to speak (weapons, access, licences, training) and they still kept vital info from him. Idealism is not a plan. They could have played along to try and nudge Ironwood to modify the new timeline once Qrow, Clover, and Robyn arrived with Tyrian. Now no one is able to communicate with anyone. Ruby messed up. They all messed up. All of Atlas will pay for it.

[@blackvial]

I think the distrust from a lot of reactors and commentors comes from military=bad

[@gazelle_diamond9768]

Ruby wasn't the one that immediately ordered the ACE-OPS to put RWBY and the rest into captivity. Added to that, Ironwood's plan is irrational and solely placed on fear, just as Salem planned. So yes, while Ironwood is not the bad guy, he deffinetly isn't the good guy either.

[@Zarola]

@@gazelle_diamond9768 What is he supposed to do with RWBY? She blatantly disregarded his authority by spilling the tentative plan about Mantle while it is literal chaos in the streets. If he doesn't lock them up they are either 1) Going to fight ACEOPS to stop them from abandoning Mantle 2) Going to get themselves killed trying to protect Mantle without support. Ironwood acted out of fear. True. Yet, can you tell me how anyone was helping him out with that? The Council has turned on him, Ozpin is out of it, the Winter maiden could be in danger, team Beacon (QRWBYJNOR) has lied to him or skirted around what he told them to do multiple times. How is he not supposed to act on instinct at this point? Ruby's and Oscar's words of encouragement are too little too late. With what we are shown of the situation and how Team Beacon has screwed things up with withholding info, I don't understand why anti-Ironwood. He did what he could with what little he had. And then he found out he had even less than what he thought because the very people he trusted into his circle kept him out of theirs until the last moment.

[@gazelle_diamond9768]

@@Zarola So you're saying, all of that justifies his irrational plan? Aside from that, neither the council nor team RWBY has turned on him. He even has Robyn's and thereby Mantle's support now. Team RWBY only turned on him when he planned on abandoning Mantle and whole of Remnant. I'm not saying his actions aren't understandable, but their definitely not justified.

[@Zarola]

@@gazelle_diamond9768 I'm saying how he got there is justified by what has happened in the past week. Robyn flipped on an uninformed Clover. So no I do not count Robyn as a solid ally. The plan was flawed. However his plan makes sense from what has been revealed to him by third parties, not the original perpetrators. He was not given a chance to cool and be reasoned with by an adult. He sees Qrow as an ally. He sees Clover as an ally. Winter is an ally. Penny is an ally. But are they allowed to get to Ironwood about the issue in a calm manner? Get the info from him directly and voice discontent on a level playing field? No because Ruby went and blabbed over the shared phone line. So Ironwood cut it off. Ruby's actions helped maintain the crazy plan. They should have said "I get that you're mad. I'd like to strategize more once Qrow, Robyn, and Clover get back." He is motivated by fear and made a weak plan. Fear motivated by shadow moves from people he trusted to keep secrets and tell him the truth. The fear could have been abated or managed, but Team RWBY ruined any chance of that by saying they would rather die first. When THEY don't have a plan to replace it! Which is one of the main wths I have. Ruby has no plan but "things will work out if we fight" despite the fact that Ironwood saw her put out of commission by Salem saying, "Your mama". If you can tell me how Ironwood's bad plan was not the only plan available, I'd reconsider.

[@adamdevree6482]

*premires in 13 hours* ARRYN

[@DrillToPierceTheHeavens]

Hazel was in the volume 6 end credits. Which took place back in Salem's domain. Also there was a scene dedicated to his escape with mercury and emerald back in volume 5.

[@princesspears4752]

So, I was thinking about it earlier. The Chess Pieces have been in play since the first volume. They were the relics that the students had to find to make teams. I just thought that was an interesting little bit of foreshadowing? they did there

[@Raziel21]

Like the up and down at the one moment. *Deep contemplative thought* *Baby talk to the cat* *Resumes deep contemplative thought*

[@novarose7994]

during the end I kept looking at your outfit ITS SO CUTE!! it makes me wanna draw it :3 I love the open sleeve things and the necklace looks so good with it!!

[@ColdGoldLazarus]

"He has a knee-jerk reaction to everything except his knee is also a gun" made me laugh out loud

[@Tangential101]

So what you're saying is "Ironwood's Knee is *also* a gun!" ;) Sorry for the delay in watching, but thank you for sharing your reaction videos! :)

[@queenwolfmononoke7642]

And when rubys eyes shine bright at the end before she falls to her knees you can hear a scream at the end

[@communitygamer117]

Ironwood is the fucking GOAT. Carrying this volume on his back. Ironwood was open and honest with everyone in his circle. He is not focused on vengeance wtf.

[@dragonsvideos6737]

The fight between the rookies and the experts is gonna be nasty.

[@TheZero1312]

I saw it and you can look forward to it.

[@dragonsvideos6737]

TheZero1312 om gosh dont spoil it

[@TheZero1312]

Don't worry.........I won't say anymore.

[@evanhunt1863]

Everyone in the comments section needs to ask one question: is Ironwood really making the "hard" decision? Or is he making the expedient decision that happens to be morally questionable? We hold up so many things as examples of the former when really they're the latter. So many times, a "hard" choice is really an easy way out. Not that I don't understand why the general would subconsciously want an easy way out.

[@JLN93]

That King/Queen chess analogy was a REALLY good analysis.

[@fourkings7968]

Liking in advance because I know this is going to be spectacular.

[@extragarb]

Ditto. With an episode like this, I can count on it! This is probably one of the best episodes in the whole series!

[@ozwell1088]

Ironwood made the correct decision. Team RWBY is baselessly idealistic and are willing to throw away the people they CAN save for the people they MIGHT save. Team RWBY have NO plan save for "try to fight a CONTINENT SPANNING army of grimm" which will cause everyone in Atlas to die. Ironwood's plan saves at least half of those people and keeps Salem from being able to instantly destroy the world by keeping half the relics out of her reach forever.

[@blackvial]

but since team RWBY are the main characters they are never wrong, will be a major argument used btw i am on your side. standing their ground is suicide

[@PPWRUP]

And the "best" thing is that after all that idealism and whining about "leaving the people of Mantle to die", "running from the fight" and other bullshit, at the end of the volume the main characters... Do exactly that. They simply flee Atlas, and with the new winter maiden, no less. Turns out being a hero and saving everyone is good only as long as you just speak about it. But when Salem's army is knocking at the door and the kingdom's military wants you arrested - yup, time to go! Honestly, at this point the only chance of saving the series is for it to take the deconstruction direction: show the actual consequences of RWBY and co.'s "genius" decisions and that they are not the heroes they make themselves out to be. But M&K are neither smart nor talented enough to do so and what's the point of doing a good job, actually trying and putting effort into things, when most of the community is dumb enough to buy whatever the writers throw them?

[@jeffreysmith236]

No he did not. Atlas is dependent on Mantle for resources, it will be a rather short seige.

[@michaelbarnes5223]

Ok I know stuff is going down, but can we talk about that fiddle OST at the end? Because holy cow, the chills...

[@antoniobeltranthesumosnipe8634]

Despite YEARS of trying (I was a huge Spock fan) I can't do that one eyebrow lift. I am so jealous of your skill with tyat.

[@RobinMelons]

A tin-man without a heart.

[@ShnNar1000x]

I don't think it's fair to deny that Ironwood's position is very defensible. Indeed, given how the volume ends, you can even say he was right. As someone else said, morally RWBY is right; logically, IW is right. I think where IW is making his big mistake is in not appreciating that he is actually in more than a physical/strategic battle with Salem; he is also in a metaphysical battle, where the moral decisions and choices have a far greater resonance and significance into the future. Abandoning Mantle may make strategic sense, but it is also an act that will divide the world and make it very hard for any other state to trust him in the future. Ultimately, uniting the world is the only way they can really beat Salem.

[@TheRealRightPrice]

20:20 This episodes entire opening was meant to show Ironwood's selflessness and that he's willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good and to save the world from Salem and when he makes a hard decision to sacrifice some people to save a great many more this chick accuses him of just being out to save himself. Is a twenty minutes too long for her to still be able to remember what happened at the beginning of the episode?

[@handtomouth4690]

Murderofbirds thought the same thing, too. Apparently making a big sacrifice in an attempt to save the world = looking out for yourself to some people.

[@blackvial]

I like both of them but they are incredibly short sighted on this issue

[@hansolav5924]

the view of Summer we got was her, standing at the spot where her memorial marker now sit. why would ruby need anyone to put that memory in her head? she would no doubt have seen it at least once. possibly carried by Yang or her father.

[@Axel_Kasai]

Ironwood should've just waited until rwby got beat up by the grimm before he decided to call them back :p

[@JJR93]

I don't believe Ironwood about Atlas being self-sufficient like that....I don't believe they can produce enough food by themselves.....they're more mutually dependent on Mantle than they realize. There's no killing one to save the other....they both die.

[@Doritochi]

I mean a lot of this is Team RWBYs fault. They remember how things were after they were lied to by Ospin. Then after all that self righteousness they did the exact same things to Ironwood. They talked about trust while lying to his face. Of course this is how he is going to react. Had he known from the beginning he could've had time to process things. Maybe even put more resources into finishing the tower. Like after dealing with Qrow, Raven, and Jaune, I really dont know why they thought hiding information would end any other way than this.

[@blackvial]

Team RWBY screwed up big time this volume

[@theycallmebad]

It's because of how they reacted to Ozpin that they didn't tell Ironwood right away, especially since he was stated to be unstable and paranoid. The whole thing with Lionheart, a supposedly trusted ally of Ozpin, didn't exactly help. And don't ignore the fact that Ironwood kept Winter becoming the WM a secret, lied about the tower, and lied to his people straight in the face with the television-broadcast.

[@Doritochi]

@@theycallmebad He kept the WM a secret because he is aware that maiden powers can be stolen. He already explained why he didnt tell anyone about the tower, and he lied to the people because his hand was forced. Had he told the truth the place wouldve been wiped out by Grimm before the night was over. They were in completely different situations. Im not saying Team RWBY didnt have their reasons. I'm saying that Ospin said the exact same things to them and they didnt care. So why would Ironwood. They are at an impasse between realism and idealism and if they keep trying to sit on the fence while criticizing both sides stuff like this is going to keep happening.

[@blackvial]

@@Doritochi in the fight that is potentially coming the idealist tend to die first

[@Doritochi]

@@blackvial It would be interesting if roosterteeth actually went through and destroyed all of Atlas. It would.make for interesting characterization and character development. But tv shows like this rarely let the main characters be wrong about things like this. Regardless of how it would likely go down in the real world.

[@TheLangenator]

Watts’ fighting style has big Waluigi energy

[@Konstantinsen]

Hindsight could vindicate Ironwood's decision here. However, consider the fact that Ironwood at this point has been mentally, physically, and perhaps even emotionally exhausted. And the stress he's faced since Beacon as well as Jacques, Robyn, the Council, and the general public piling up the pressure coupled with the on-going evacuation and containment of the Grimm pouring into Mantle which is taking a toll on Atlas's armed forces is a lot for a man like him to even handle. As echoed before, he said, "I don't think I can take it." And here he is, at his limit, pushed over the edge by Cinder's mind game and pressed up to the event horizon by Salem's appearance. I am not surprised that he went with the option of prioritizing the Relics and the Maiden over a whole city. He still has some PTSD from Beacon as far as I can tell and he's unconsciously letting that trauma affect his decision-making. And as a character, that's a flaw that I am very happy with because it helps drive the story by essentially creating more conflict in an on-going conflict. Like containing a mutiny in an army that is second-guessing its strategic position in a war where every asset counts and every liability could be their downfall.

[@Honk4frogs]

I wanna make something clear. Ironwood is not stupid. He is a general. Like vine said, you can't focus on a single battle when trying to win a war. Ironwood is fighting an unkillable foe who commands an incredible force, which is already on its way. If Atlas falls, if salem gets the relics, then the world is basically doomed. Team RWBY can't cope with the idea of a lose lose situation, because they're anime protagonists and ofcourse they will somehow find a way. But as a general, Ironwood is doing the realistic thing here. This type of situation is also exactly what martial law is for, no matter how terrible it may seem it has saved countries during though times. Also yes, he does care about Mantle. But like I said, its a lose lose situation. Either let Mantle die, or let the world die, thats the realistic view of it. I think Ironwood is doing his job, above and beyond. He isn't a flawless being by any stretch, but he is the only one who truely seems to understand the threat they're facing.

[@theycallmebad]

"Team RWBY can't cope with the idea of a lose lose situation, because they're anime protagonists and ofcourse they will somehow find a way" Your bias for Ironwood is showing, buddy boy. Ironwood doesn't care about Mantle, or else he would've fixed the damn wall from the start; it wasn't even that big if a hole, but nope, it's no concern for Atlas city itself, safely up there in the sky, so let's focus entirely on the tower. If it had been Atlas city that had been having a security breach like a wall or something, he likely would fix it right away. He never cared for Mantle in the first place and kept it as a sacrifical lamb so that he and his city can escape.

[@obsidiansinclaire3826]

@@theycallmebad ironwood doesn't give a shit about his personal safety. He's 1000% willing to jump into a volcano if it would save everyone, listen to the words of his theme for proof of that. Theres *no* other option. Staying and fighting would just mean meaningless deaths. And all you people complaining about how he is right now are refusing to face the fact that team RWBY pushed him to this point by making the *exact* same choices they and you guys tried to criticize ozma for.

[@Honk4frogs]

​@@theycallmebad If he didn't care for Mantle he wouldn't have diverted all of his forces to defending it, twice this season, as well as during the montage earlier this season when most of the time team RWBY was send out to defend Mantle. He would've huddled them up to defend Amity and the relics. He wouldn't keep his most powerful weapon (Penny) as the defender of Mantle. He considerd the risk of both delaying the reconstruction of the wall, or the construction of amity. He was completely right to fear for sabotage if people learned about it. And we know that Robin had stolen plenty of supplies, and she had the suppliers of mantle on her side, so why didn't she fix the wall? I also don't reallly see how that specific part of my comment shows my Ironwood bias, since I didn't even mention Ironwood. It simply mentions that yes, I do believe team RWBY's course of action will save the day because this is a show, but realistically I have to say that Ironwood is being more sensible. Team RWBY never proposes any true plan as an alternative. only vague motivational speeches. Team RWBY is in the moral right here, but that wont mean much if Salem gets all the relics and literally destroys humanity.

[@explosiveexcitement5]

So we have Ruby’s plan being the Alamo and Ironwood’s plan being to fall back from a superior force that doesn’t tire. Yeah I fully support Ironwood

[@arch_2076]

If I don’t get to see atlas crashing into the ground before this volume ends then I’ll be big disappoint

[@jimfox1477]

I love how Salem wiped that stupid smile off your face when she mentioned ruby's mother😀

[@mrfrits94]

Is that a Legend of Korra reference I see?

[@Lonii04]

Where? 🤔

[@mrfrits94]

@@Lonii04 "Don't Bring my mother into this!" Tenzin~

[@raziel7148]

Ozcar is probably buying some new clothes

[@PhyrexianSurgeon]

21:38 "FUCK!" Took the words (or word) right out of my mouth

[@kellingc]

Memory jog - Hazel is back at the base looking over Mercury and Emerald.

[@Axel_Kasai]

The tyrian fight was hyped so much that I'm disappointed it was so short

[@geomancer6371]

Would be interesting to find out Penny's assignment will be. Looks like a lot of people forgot about that.

[@wolfsaints]

Ruby saw her mom when she used the silver eyes last volume also Cinder sent Neo to get the lamp from Oscar and the time we saw Hazel he was with Emerald and Mercury at Salem’s base in the after credits scene with the winged gorilla grim

[@shadowangel3995]

I find it interesting how good Tyrian is at fighting. He held his own against three professionally trained huntsmen. I’m going to call it now; Ruby is going to snap after what Salem said to her and save Atlas/ Mantle with her silver eyes. She said it to Yang back in Haven that she was P.O.ed. I personally think Salem and Ironwood just sent Ruby over the edge. I say this because Ruby above anyone else in the show has always put saving the innocents of Remnant over anything else. Ruby is going to snap and snap hard, and it’s going to be a beautiful thing to watch. I honestly think we are going to see why for seven seasons people either revered or were terrified of Summer because her daughter, Ruby, is about to remind the world what the silver eyed warriors can do. Even Harriet said Ruby’s semblance is more then just a speed semblance. We haven’t seen what Ruby can do yet, but I truly believe we will see it in the next episode.

[@edmundfreeman7203]

Remember last season when Jinn showed Ruby a vision of Ruby's mother? That's where the memories of Ruby for her mother came from.

[@Spectralyzed]

I've watched this episode already, and the season after, but that ending still had me spitting out "FUCK" seconds before you did at the end. Ironwood, I hate that you have made me feel bad for you and want to just sock you in the jaw all at the same time.

[@hansolav5924]

until recent episodes, I reckon Winter had all the reason she could possibly need to look confident. powerful servants by the multitude at a moments notice, the right hand of what amounts to the local ruler, and trained for battle otherwise to probably ridiculous lengths. It would probably be very difficult for her to envision a challenge she could not face with ease.

[@hddune786]

Iron wood is consumed by his fear in such a way he became predictable, because he thinks like a human being ! A godly being as Salem must be fought with the relics... for example, by using this damn lamp : "what are the plans of Salem ?" or "how can we win the battle ?"

[@hansolav5924]

as for Ironwood at the end there...that's him surrendering to the Machine. possibilites, percentages, capabilities, time. Keeping the relics out of Salem's hands are Priority ONE. if you can do that and save a few humans at the same time; Golden opportunity. Make It So.

[@WingTzu343]

"What are the odds that Salem will actually approach? I genuinely don't think she'd go!" LOL oh man next episode....

[@eden8457]

Good luck! You sound really busy but I hope you have fun in possible animation hell. I know it won’t be for a while but 10000% post/link your guys short film!! I’m super interested in watching it

[@armitage1950]

Salem played Ironwood’s paranoia like a harp.

[@robertvarner2932]

Marrow seemed to look like he didn't like what was happening maybe he will help somehow

[@TheSatanicSock]

‘’Just Y E E T yourself’’

[@Acepunydefoc]

He's assuming they're working together. Remember Watts had access to atlas security system. It's not a stretch to assume they could very easily find the maiden, revealing the hand is only a mistake if he knew they were separated.

[@corym.m.3084]

I guess putting yourself in Ironwoods shoes does make sense. He was honest and trusting from the start, then gets lied to by Ruby, betrayed by Yang and Blake, and now probably assuming Salem is coming to Atlas. All the info about Salem was dropped on Ironwood like the same day as everything went down and knowing that there was a lot more of Salems forces were at Atlas, its not surprising that he didn't crack sooner than later. Again, everyone needs to understand that like Jaun and his team first found out about Salem, team RWBY had time to deal with and accept it. Whereas Ironwood (despite pretty much knowing a lot of the info already) had a few hours (im assuming). Also my prediction for the final episode is that Atlas might fall entirely (quite literally) and is going to be like Beacon all over again. There is no way that they mentioned the staff holding Atlas in the air without some major consequence.