RWBY Volume 8 Chapter 9 Reaction - BURN. THE. WITCH.

[@mariapazgonzalezlesme]

Hazel fulfilled his fairytale's ending. By burning the evil Witch, with the Wizard of Oz.

[@Ricardo_Rick]

really? what story(or character) is he from?

[@blackvial]

@@Ricardo_Rick Hansel and Gretle

[@swagachugaming7677]

@@blackvial Hazel and Gretchen omg I didn’t think of that omg Thx for answering this lol. That makes so much more sense.

[@dragoes9]

I really loved how different hazel fought here than in mistral. There he was this lumbering juggernaut that couldn't be stopped except for a little bit of breathing room, but here he let loose not holding anything back, faster than he's ever been, dodging attacks, using different dusts strategically. I also loved how pointless it was, that Hazel with all that dust in him was probably one of the most powerful characters we've seen and it didn't matter at all compared to the immortal big bad

[@Schloorp]

imagine if he fought like this against anyone other than salem

[@ezzo222]

@@Schloorp Yeah this episode really drove home how justly afraid Ozma was of Hazel back in Mistral, dude's a complete beast

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

You know what I've come to realise about Salem? People have been looking at her all wrong. She's not the unstoppable force that many in Remnant appear to view her, rather, she is the immovable object. As shown in "Witch", Salem is not the strongest fighter in Remnant, and she's _far_ from the fastest being in Remnant. Her body is weak and pliable, and she doesn't even appear to have Aura to protect her. But the thing that Salem has that makes her so dangerous is her immortality, which allows her to just _keep coming back_ . She may not be as skilled as you in a fight, you may smash her face in and gut her numerous times, but she will just regenerate over and over again, until you eventually tire out. Besides her intelligence, that's where Salem's true strength lies - not in the threat that she'll overwhelm you with spindly Grimm arms and giant blasts of rainbow light, but in the seeming inevitability of her getting back up like a freshly reanimated zombie to fight again and again. However, very interestingly, this chapter has exposed some crippling weaknesses in Salem. As previously mentioned, she has been overwhelmed in terms of physical strength and vastly outpaced in terms of speed. Despite her immortality, her weak and pliable body and seeming lack of Aura allows her to be rather quickly and easily torn apart and briefly incapacitated, with the regeneration process of her immortality being rather slow. She was taken by surprise on multiple occasions, and numerous hits were landed on her. Even a cane-less Oscar managed to stagger Salem, hurting her and almost bringing her to her knees with merely a small blast of magic from his hands. If Salem can be affected to such a degree - to the point of near-incapacitation - by a magical attack that weak, how much more damage could the power of a Maiden or 2 (or 4) do to her? On top of that, despite her magic and Grimm abilities, Salem has virtually _zero_ combat training compared to almost every other character in the entire series. Given what we've seen in this episode alone, if a skilled warrior such as Cinder manages to obtain the powers of all four Seasonal Maidens - thus becoming the "All-Maiden" - they may very well be able to defeat Salem. After all, the All-Maiden is essentially prime-Ozma, who despite being devastated at Salem's fall to darkness and the loss of their children, was even then still able to overpower and reduce Salem's entire body to ashes during their fight. Cinder has a particular chance of victory in this situation not only due to her fighting skills being second only to Ozma, but due to the fact that she's also the main fire-user in RWBY, and we all saw how the fire of a simple tiny Dust crystal caused Salem immense amounts of pain when Hazel literally burned the witch at the stake.

[@TurtleOfAngst]

FNDM, To Yang: Raven may have been your mother, *looks at Summer* But she wasn't your Mom.

[@bluegallade]

Yet yang knew summer more than ruby, yet everyone cares about the ruby-summer dynamic. Ruby was still a toddler when summer left the picture

[@Tw0Dots]

@@bluegallade Probably because of Summer being Ruby’s biological mom. They seem to forget that not being directly related doesnt mean you love someone less. Summer is her mom, in my eyes, Raven is a deadbeat, biological or not.

[@bluegallade]

@@Tw0Dots but honestly speaking, is summer not also a deadbeat mum at this point? She abandons toddler ruby (AND a young yang), and never returns or even leaves any indication why she left, Which, might I add, also drove Tai to a depressive spiral. Honestly summer is one of the worst elements in the Rwby story. It took 7 volumes for ruby to discuss summer and what did we learn, she was a stubborn optimist, just like ruby, So ruby is just a copy paste of summer, a person she NEVER really grew up knowing.

[@Stormthorn67]

@@bluegallade Raven abandoned them. Summer left with every intent of coming back and presumably died or was turned into a grimm hybrid. Qrow has been in the girls lives but also left on missions regularly with the knowledge he may die on any one and never come back. It's the difference between leaving for smokes and never coming back vs leaving for a shift at a dangerous job and never making it home.

[@blackvial]

@@bluegallade how is Summer a deadbeat, she went on a job and supposedly died in the line of duty. Are soldiers and cops who die on the job deadbeats to you? Hell Raven abandoned Yang with Tai because she's a cowardly bitch.

[@FinallyTalkinBack]

Neo’s question: “Is Neo’s Neo Ice-cream really poisonous?”

[@johnnygnoneeded]

Neo's Neo has NOT yet been approved for consumer consumption by the Remnant Board of Food and Health, so eat at your own risk! (;]D,

[@joshualeahy2162]

Sounds like something vsauce would make lol. "Vsauce, Michael here! Is Neo's Neo Ice cream really poisonous?" 😆

[@sleepywalker87]

*holds sign* “It’s not”

[@theycallmebad]

6:40 That was just the grimm ooze being grim ooze, bubbling. It showed that the time was slowing down to a halt.

[@JJR93]

I love Jinn's time-stop effect....I got chills the first time in Vol.6 when the snow just STOPPED, in mid-air....

[@rinche1789]

When hazel said he managed to get salem to leave for a couple of hours earlier in the volume leads me to believe that Salem was just toying with him. She was able to heal pretty much instantly

[@AstralMuffin105]

She wanted him to let him think he had a chance and to wear him out so he'd listen to her, and it apparently worked, but not as well as she hoped.

[@Ricardo_Rick]

i think it depends on the damage she sustains, if it's too much it would probably take at least some time to fully regenerate, oscar's move there was to do exactly that, to disintegrate her so it gives time to them to go out and to the bomb to explode

[@Kamon181]

@@Ricardo_Rick CRWBY mentioned at one point that Ozpin's cane stores time. Oscar might've frozen or slowed Salem's regeneration somehow.

[@dragonrune6800]

Salem allowed Hazel to kill her, as much as he wanted to. That is what convinced him. Now, Salem is fighting back. As for Salem's fighting, she really doesn't have much other than her immortality.

[@AstralMuffin105]

@@dragonrune6800 And her magic, which is leagues above anything most modern people can even imagine.

[@Blazingstoke]

Wow, Hazel really bit the Dust. (ba-dum-tish!)

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

He couldn't wait to watch Salem burn.

[@mattball8622]

Remember back in V2 when Jaune told Ren he was the brother he never had and it was all played as a joke? Smash cut to us all crying in the club right now. Their dynamic this episode was amazing. ...also, I sort of low-key ship it, but either way watching them being supportive of each other makes my heart happy.

[@dragonforce627]

I still want the Yang and Neo rematch!!

[@johnnygnoneeded]

You might get your wish...Neo is going to do something particularly heinous either this Volume or the next...according to CRWBY's statements last year! (;]D,

[@ThoraxetheImpaile100]

@@johnnygnoneeded Watch that heinous act turns out to be Neo talking.

[@johnnygnoneeded]

@@ThoraxetheImpaile100 "NOOOOOO!!! Say it ain't so!" "Don't say anything, Neo!!" Ahahaha! I can hear the fallout now! (;]D,

[@goldpharaoh9203]

YESSS ME TOO

[@goldpharaoh9203]

@@johnnygnoneeded Wait so it was confirmed we might get a rewatch with neo vs yang ?? where did you hear this from ?? pls let me know im very hyped

[@callumjames7854]

15:25 Me: I bet you’ve never been so happy to see a man punch a woman.

[@Xardion55]

-Chapter 9: Witch RWBY quote of the chapter _“No more Gretchens...” (Hazel)_ -Entering the Beast I do have to wonder, where and how did they get into the whale Grimm in the first place? Did they just go straight through its mouth or a side entry or what? Passing thought… Even though Yang said it as a joke to help lessen her fear, it is good to see Ren and Jaune mending their friendship after their previous rift. And it’s an interesting contrast between Yang and Jaune and their reaction to their fear, something Ren pointed out. It isn’t that Jaune is absent of fear (Ren pointed out they were all scared later on), simply that he’s too focused on their task at hand and in a way, he’s forgotten it. Weird, huh? Guess he’s leveling up his Paladin status… Also fun to hear Yang rephrase the iconic line ‘to keep moving forward’ into ‘charge blindly into danger’, while also reminding back to her natural persona as a thrill-seeker. And also how she stood up to Salem goes back to her conversation to Raven, that she will face Salem despite the odds. _”You don’t have to do this, Yang.”_ _Nope. But I’m gonna do it anyway.”_ And then they once again dangle the name of Summer Rose into this… *Grrraahhhh!!!* -Oscar’s dilemma Fair share of fairytales? Really, Ozpin ^_^ The story Oscar spoke of apparently is a reference to _Alice in Wonderland._ And this a moment where he is sympathizing with Salem’s plight somewhat, with regard to her own. Early own, he has wanted a life greater than being a mere farmhand, but not the way he expected. And this was a theme he voiced several times in the past. _”I always knew I wanted to more than a farmhand. But this… who would ask for this?”_ (To Ruby in Volume 5) _”I was starting to be like me. Not the same me I was before all of this, but…the me I always wanted to be. I felt…like I was actually part of the team.”_ (To Ozpin) The fact that him using magic (confirming his ability at the end of the last volume) causes the merging to draw closing is interesting, something that neither of them really wants. Despite that though, Oscar risked that in the fight against Salem, putting his feeling aside to help his friends. But I remembered something that Ozpin mentioned earlier, that his magic power was limited and fading away. Would Oscar’s use of magic still be certain for the merger to happen if he’s low on power? Or what will happen if Oscar no longer has that power? Will he still be the same or will Ozpin and his past memories become something of a sort of limbo within Oscar? Insert headache here… -Into the trenches As the battle rages, hunters/soldiers are entering the battle on the ground. It is weird (really weird) to see Neon and Flynt in Atlas armor. But such is the necessarily of war. Marrow and Winter are the only one who are having reservations, with Marrow voicing his worries. Winter is the same, but knows that they have a job to do. Also interesting is that Winter is the only one there to show and share sympathy to Marrow. It’s similar to how she showed this side with Penny As Ren detected earlier… -Wild Card And this is why this saying exists: _Watch out for the quiet ones…_ With everything going on, it’s natural that Neo would be forgotten by everyone around, particularly because she doesn’t voice her desires or objectives (literally). And even with the audience, aside from her grudge against Ruby, we don’t know her true intentions or even what she thinks about the war. Perhaps she is merely echoing the last words of her dear Roman in her actions. _”As for me, I will do what I do best. Lie, steal, cheat…and survive.”_ Initial, I thought that her lack of speech prevents her from really doing anything (or that she actually _can_ speak), but after a thought, she didn’t have to. Even though she knows the password, she doesn’t have to speak it as Jinn was still active when she came into the scene and thus still in Jinn’s sphere of influence. And if Neo does have a question, it doesn’t have to be verbal. She can simply write down the question and show it to Jinn (The RWBY Chibi series is an amusing alluding to that). Or maybe she doesn’t have to answer a question. She could just simply take the Relic and split. She knows her exit and with her semblance, plus the fact that no one is paying any attention to her, she could easily slip away. Of course, the down side of that for her is that the Relic has a faint attraction to the Grimm, so it may not be in her best interest, especially considering that she wouldn’t know that little factoid. But the real question is, if she did ask Jinn, _what was her question?_ Dun, dun, dun! -Deceiving Salem _”You really have been honing that semblance of yours.”_ I really didn’t think about it on first viewing. I mean, the evidence was _right there._ The way Emerald reacted to Hazel (Oscar), pushing him back and to the side when Hazel was supposed to be the ‘superior officer’, and her gaze at him when he was hesitating to reply to Salem. I guess when Emerald said she had been working on her semblance, she did it so well that even Salem couldn’t tell (at that moment). Which really pissed her off… But Salem was also deceived by Neo’s actions as well. Given how terrified Emerald is to Salem, Salem should have realized that Emerald was telling the truth. Even when it concerned Cinder, Emerald’s fear broke her under Salem’s proximity alone. So the fact that Emerald answered the way she did should have clued in Salem that something else must have been amiss. But the fact that the lamp was stolen and that she was tricked by Emerald blinded her to the fact that she was also tricked by Neo, as she (like many others) didn’t think anything about Neo. -Hazel’s last stand This may be the first time we have seen Salem in a full battle and it is really scary how fast Salem moves. Hazel clearly knows that he won’t survive so he goes full on to do that, infusing multiple shards of Dust into himself (Seriously, you would think he was trying to _The Avatar)._ You would think there would have been a new soundtrack in this, but it was a relatively short fight. Despite the time, Hazel fought to the end, even getting Salem to scream upon being burned and holding her long enough for Oscar to make his move. When Oscar used the cane, it teleported him to another area, so maybe he’s doing the same here, relocating Salem elsewhere. Of course, it may have another function (or other functions, plural), so we don’t know what will happen here. Which is why, despite the history of RWBY with regards to cliffhangers, we pretty much the same thing, over and over… *WHHAATTTTTT!!!!!! DAMNNNN CLIFFHANGERRRRRRRSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!*

[@MigliLovania]

i think jinn knew neo was there and that she had a question for her, as she looks to neos hiding spot as the others leave and we don't see her fully disappear, even if neo cant summon her, jinn knows she was there, and would likely know she is mute, but jinn might still answer her last question as if she knows everything she would know what neo wants to ask

[@RectPropagation]

Yes, they also hinted at this at the end of Volume 6 when Jinn said she already knew that Ruby didn't have a question for her.

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

Perhaps. But what questions do you think that Neo could possibly ask that would have much bearing on the overall plot, especially compared to the questions that certain other characters could possibly ask?

[@RectPropagation]

@@TheGreater-ScopeVillain People have been speculating that she'd ask about Roman but I think Neo has seen enough of Salem that she might ask how to defeat her. Depending on how she asks that she might get a different/better answer than Ozpin did. Whatever she asks, if she asks anything, it would take the lamp out of play until the next century. (It's not clear to me if the 100 year countdown doesn't start until the last question is asked or if the count just resets to 3 every hundred years regardless of how many questions were asked before.)

[@ldkinbote]

@@RectPropagation Also, it would stop the lamp from being able to answer a question, but I don't know if it needs that ability if all of the relics are brought together. It'd just be that Salem couldn't use it to find out whatever it is she wanted to ask. I do hope Neo did ask a question so as to take it out of play for Salem.

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

​@@RectPropagation Well if it's the former, then after the third question, the Lamp would be of little use to anyone outside of signalling the Gods. I'm not sure if it would be more interesting for the questions to be reset or whether to leave it in favour of focusing on other things throughout the story. As for Neo, I doubt that she'd be the one to ask a question like how to defeat Salem due to Neo's status as being a character of much lower importance than ones like Ruby or Cinder. That's one of the main reasons why I'm not sure if Neo will use the Lamp at all, and that she might instead give it to Cinder in exchange for something. Really the only thing I can see Neo using the Lamp for is asking about the circumstances revolving, or who was responsible for, Roman Torchwick's death, but even then I think that's _far_ from the best possible use of the third question.

[@Tw0Dots]

7:46 Rip headphone users, that scared the shit out of me 😧

[@jss2141]

Hazel is the fusion of the Avatar and the Juggernaut!

[@BARALover96]

Just realised Hazel is Hansel

[@Ricardo_Rick]

who?

[@BARALover96]

@@Ricardo_Rick from Hansel and Gretel. His sister's name being Gretchen

[@JJR93]

Although Neo has no use for the Lamp personally, she knows it's a powerful bargaining chip to leverage what she wants....Neo is being maximum chaos agent here...full chaotic neutral, screwing with everyone.

[@ImmortaleyeStudio]

Oooh .. random thought. Do you think Neo might take the lamp to Ironwood (having given up on Salem/Cinder) in exchange for help getting to Ruby (Who's in Atlas)?

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

I personally find it more likely that Neo will continue to work for Cinder, since despite Cinder's domineering attitude towards her, Neo still has much better odds of staying free when on Cinder's side than by going to either of the sides that she has been helping Cinder to hurt so much over the course of the show. Even if Cinder continues to see Neo as nothing more than a pawn or asset, at least the Dark Maiden will help Neo achieve what she wants as long as it aligns with Cinder's own "grand masterplan" (as Roman used to so eloquently put it), while in contrast, both the Hero faction and the Atlas faction will treat Neo as an untrustworthy and dangerous enemy. Neo has now reacquired the Lamp of Knowledge, but there doesn't appear to be many options for her in regards to what she could do with it. By committing this act, she has straight-up betrayed Salem, meaning that whatever she's doing is meant to work against Salem. There would be no real purpose for Neo to simply run away with the Relic, and I feel that no question that Neo would possibly want to ask would have much effect on the plot (if she even _can_ ask a question). So then, assuming that Neo is mute and that the questions to Jinn must be spoken, Neo can't use the Lamp herself, meaning that her only options are to take it to someone else in the hopes that their use of it will benefit her in some way. Her only real options for that are the heroes and Cinder, and I find it very unlikely that Neo will approach the heroes even if she knew where to find them, unless of course, she stowed away on their getaway ship with it. Besides Cinder's long time-stop panning shot in the OP, it makes sense for Cinder to have Neo steal the Lamp for her again (if that is indeed what happened) if the Dark Maiden intends to execute her plan to betray Salem, given that Cinder's hatred of Salem (which has been seen as early as Volume 4) has come to a head in this volume especially. Despite Neo's recent feelings of discontent towards Cinder for treating her as merely an asset rather than a partner and not appreciating her talents, Cinder seemingly remains the only viable option for Neo in regards to having an actual future, now that she's betrayed Salem.

[@ImmortaleyeStudio]

@@TheGreater-ScopeVillain Really,? Neo stole the Lamp for Cinder once and the results were disappointing from Neo's POV. Not sure Neo would see much value in doing it a second time.

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

​@@ImmortaleyeStudio Like I said, despite Cinder's treatment of her, there aren't really any other options for Neo at this point. It all comes down to whatever Neo's motivations were for taking the Lamp in the first place; there must be a good reason why she would take such a bold and consequential action. Was it merely a spur-of-the-moment decision? Or was it done at the behest of Cinder as part of her plan to betray/overthrow Salem? Or was it Neo acting on her own in order to acquire a bargaining chip to offer Cinder in exchange for a better deal in their current "servant & master" relationship? We may find out in the next chapter.

[@ImmortaleyeStudio]

@@TheGreater-ScopeVillain Neo's motivation is to get even with Ruby over Touchwicks death.. Seeing as Ruby is in Atlas & Neo must know Ironwood is also after Ruby he seems like a better option surely?

[@Alien-f8z]

I was grossed out when Hazel splattered Salem.

[@Lilfairydarling]

Neo, Toga, and Harley Quinn all give similar acrobatic, gymnast, crazy chick vibes neo and toga have similar powers and Harley is just crazy stronk

[@multismashify]

18:03 "You just peaked the camera so loud". She's been peaking the mic quite a lot throughout this whole thing. My eardrums were not prepared.

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

Some important details to note about this chapter: You know what I've come to realise about Salem? People have been looking at her all wrong. She's not the unstoppable force that many in Remnant appear to view her, rather, she is the immovable object. As shown in "Witch", Salem is not the strongest fighter in Remnant, and she's _far_ from the fastest being in Remnant. Her body is weak and pliable, and she doesn't even appear to have Aura to protect her. But the thing that Salem has that makes her so dangerous is her immortality, which allows her to just _keep coming back_ . She may not be as skilled as you in a fight, you may smash her face in and gut her numerous times, but she will just regenerate over and over again, until you eventually tire out. Besides her intelligence, that's where Salem's true strength lies - not in the threat that she'll overwhelm you with spindly Grimm arms and giant blasts of rainbow light, but in the seeming inevitability of her getting back up like a freshly reanimated zombie to fight again and again. However, very interestingly, this chapter has exposed some crippling weaknesses in Salem. As previously mentioned, she has been overwhelmed in terms of physical strength and vastly outpaced in terms of speed. Despite her immortality, her weak and pliable body and seeming lack of Aura allows her to be rather quickly and easily torn apart and briefly incapacitated, with the regeneration process of her immortality being rather slow. She was taken by surprise on multiple occasions, and numerous hits were landed on her. Even a cane-less Oscar managed to stagger Salem, hurting her and almost bringing her to her knees with merely a small blast of magic from his hands. If Salem can be affected to such a degree - to the point of near-incapacitation - by a magical attack that weak, how much more damage could the power of a Maiden or 2 (or 4) do to her? On top of that, despite her magic and Grimm abilities, Salem has virtually _zero_ combat training compared to almost every other character in the entire series. Given what we've seen in this episode alone, if a skilled warrior such as Cinder manages to obtain the powers of all four Seasonal Maidens - thus becoming the "All-Maiden" - they may very well be able to defeat Salem. After all, the All-Maiden is essentially prime-Ozma, who despite being devastated at Salem's fall to darkness, was even then still able to overpower and reduce Salem's entire body to ashes during their fight. Cinder has a particular chance of victory in this situation not only due to her fighting skills being second only to Ozma, but due to the fact that she's also the main fire-user in RWBY, and we all saw how the fire of a simple tiny Dust crystal caused Salem immense amounts of pain when Hazel literally burned the witch at the stake. Regardless, it looks as though Hazel may have sacrificed himself to allow Oscar to obliterate Salem's body and incapacitate her for a long period of time on order to allow the others to escape. As Hazel told Ozma in V8 Chapter 7, he once killed Salem over and over again, with the longest the witch was gone being a few hours. If Oscar's last attack in Chapter 9 was as powerful as it seemed, Salem is likely to be taken out for _at least_ a few hours. This is a very interesting possibility, as it would take Salem out for pretty much the rest of the Volume, allowing the remaining villains to act as they please. Neo has now reacquired the Lamp of Knowledge, but there doesn't appear to be many options for her in regards to what she could do with it. By committing this act, she has straight-up betrayed Salem, meaning that whatever she's doing is meant to work against Salem. There would be no real purpose for Neo to simply run away with the Relic, and I feel that no question that Neo would possibly want to ask would have much effect on the plot (if she even _can_ ask a question). So then, assuming that Neo is mute and that the questions to Jinn must be spoken, Neo can't use the Lamp herself, meaning that her only options are to take it to someone else in the hopes that their use of it will benefit her in some way. Her only real options for that are the heroes and Cinder, and I find it very unlikely that Neo will approach the heroes even if she knew where to find them, unless of course she stowed away on their getaway ship with it. Besides Cinder's long time-stop panning shot in the OP, it makes sense for Cinder to have Neo steal the Lamp for her again (if that is indeed what happened) if the Dark Maiden intends to execute her plan to betray Salem, given that Cinder's hatred of Salem (which has been seen as early as Volume 4) has come to a head in this volume especially. Despite Neo's recent feelings of discontent towards Cinder for treating her as merely an asset rather than a partner and not appreciating her talents, Cinder seemingly remains the only viable option for Neo in regards to having an actual future, now that she's betrayed Salem. Emerald has also betrayed Salem, yes, but that does NOT mean that she has betrayed Cinder yet. It has always been Cinder, rather than Salem, who was the reason why Emerald has been a villain, and we know that Cinder has never really been on Salem's side anyway, and has been waiting for the opportunity to betray/overthrow her ("I don't serve anyone," and all that). Cinder is the focus of all of Emerald's loyalty, the entire reason that Emerald has done all this, and the reason why Emerald got mixed up with Salem and the other villains in the first place. Emerald has abandoned Salem now, but she hasn't necessarily joined the heroes; this is not a complete face-turn. The heroes don't trust her, and Emerald doesn't trust them even more. She's only with them by shared circumstance. If Cinder - the one who gave Emerald everything - shows up to them again, there's no telling what Emerald will do and who she will side with. But right now, Emerald is still more of a villain than a hero - after all, she helped Cinder kill Amber, Penny, and countless people across Remnant via the plan of Cinder's that came to be known as The Fall of Beacon. Hazel earned his redemption with his actions this chapter, but Emerald still has to do the same if she's going to make a full face-turn. Mercury is also not completely on Salem's side, since in the last time we saw him (V8, Chapter 7), just before he left with Tyrian to go to Vacuo, he was shown to be having doubts about working with Salem; doubts brought about by Emerald's revelations to him about what she overheard from the conversation between Hazel and Ozma, doubts which were only bolstered an unwitting Tyrian afterwards. So Mercury is not entirely in Salem's ball court anymore, which opens up some very interesting possibilities for later on. As of now, Cinder, Neo and Watts are the only remaining villains in Atlas (besides Emerald, Salem and the Grimm). However, not all of them are necessarily loyal to Salem. We know that Cinder absolutely _loathes_ Salem due to Salem's degrading treatment of her and what Salem represents to Cinder from Cinder's point of view (think Madame from Cinder's backstory), so Cinder may not be fighting alongside Salem's faction for too much longer. Neo has outright stolen a _Relic_ from Salem, so clearly she's not on Salem's side either. Watts is more of a strange case, as while he is loyal to Salem at the moment, we don't know how long that will last. Watts is currently still under the impression that Salem's goal is to create a new world order within which he will be one of the top dogs, just like Mercury used to think. Since Watts seems like a villain who does not want to die, he will probably turn against Salem as well if he learns that her true goal is to try and commit suicide via the Gods wiping Remnant from existence. This situation could potentially be brought about by Emerald if she meets up with Cinder and Watts later on and informs them of what she overheard about Salem's true objective from Ozma, and if that's not enough, Neo could potentially bring the Relic back to Cinder again, and Watts may learn the truth through whatever Cinder asks Jinn. After the events of this chapter, Salem has really only 1 or 2 people who are truly loyal to her: Tyrian and (maybe) Watts. And especially now that Salem herself has seemingly been taken out for the foreseeable future, her faction has virtually collapsed, just like that. This changes the tide of the war immensely, as far as the four main factions (the Hero Faction, the Atlas Faction, the Salem Faction, and the Cinder Faction) are concerned. Now that Cinder is in possession of Watts, she can order him to bring Penny to her or vice versa so that she can absorb all her magic and become the Fall-Winter Maiden, thus giving her access to the Staff of Creation inside the Vault of the Winter Maiden. And now that the heroes are all exhausted, Atlas is preoccupied with Grimm, and Salem is potentially out of commission for a while, is there anyone available to try and stop Cinder from using the Staff for whatever reason she wants, which would simultaneously cause Atlas (the city that she hates so much for backstory reason) to fall in the process?

[@theprofesionalist7927]

I see that someone was cosplayin has Neo in hopes of seeing the impending rematch.

[@TenebrousFilms]

Where's the other half of FNKY, again? The bubbling grimmstuff was the only way to show time was stopping. If they had asked a question, Salem woudln't be able to use the lamp; but the writers already knew Neo would steal it, so it didn't occur to them. Emerald refers to weak minds? Which again begs the question, how did her semblance work on Penny? Is there an actual brain in that skull? Nice to see Yang refer to the woman who raised her after six volumes. Also nice to see more natural dust use, especially the hard light shield near the end. I'm assuming the staff will disintigrate Salem or something, giving them time to get to safety; and without her directing the whale, the Atlas military might catch a break.

[@staypuftmmm9247]

They were all there next to them, just very hard to see. :)

[@dragonrune6800]

Kobalt was standing next to Neon, on her left side [right side of her from our perspective].

[@TenebrousFilms]

@@dragonrune6800 Yeah, he's been pointed out to me. I guess I missed him due to only ever seeing him once, briefly. Apparently the fourth one is there, too.

[@quwykxz]

@17:08 "Maybe they can tag-team her." ... Phrasing..... 😅

[@hermaeusmora424]

After seeing the staff activate there and Oscar being so stern about getting it, I still think the staff is a relic. Sure he said it isn´t but that wouldn´t be the first lie he told now would it?

[@dragonrune6800]

Your only problem is that there are 4 relics, and we have "seen" all of them. None of them look like Ozpin's cane. The staff Ozpin had may be shortened into the cane, but its just that- a shortened staff. Sentimental value perhaps, but that is all.

[@FixTheWi-Fi]

Only relic that hasnt been directly spoken about by anyone yet is the Crown of Choice, and unless it's Glynda we havent seen it outside that flashback either. Somehow I dont think the cane is the crown.

[@dragonrune6800]

@@FixTheWi-Fi Correct. If anything, the cane is .. a remnant of Ozma's "wizard" staff from v6c3.

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

I think that idea can be safely put to rest, as that would have been a key piece of information that Ozma would've hidden from the heroes, and Ruby did already ask Jinn to tell them all *_"What [Ozpin is] hiding from [them]"._* Also, Oscar/Ozma's current stick is actually a cane, not a staff. The _Staff_ is the Relic of Creation that's still in a Vault, awaiting a Winter Maiden to release and claim it, whether that be Penny or Cinder.

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

​@@FixTheWi-Fi The Crown of Choice is talked about quite a bit within the "RWBY: Fairy Tales of Remnant" book, though.

[@sparkybean4631]

BIGGEST thing i took from this, question wise. Neo taking the relic, from our knowledge cannot talk but my thoughts always go back to the theory of torchwick being alive, at brunswick the books maria was reading was 1,3 and 8(torchwick introduced vol1 "died" vol3 appears back vol8) its a fun theory and would make more sense on her taking the relic when she cant speak. Just a bit of fun as Torchwick n Neo are some of my favourite characters. JUST an idea, not my theory either xD

[@dragonrune6800]

Maybe Neo took the lamp as collateral, in case she wants sanctuary with Atlas.

[@sparkybean4631]

@@dragonrune6800 yeah that's also another possibility haha

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

As much as I liked Roman, I feel as though him being dead makes Neo a _much_ better character than she would be if he was still alive or if he somehow came back. I personally would like him to stay dead as it would keep Neo on the path her character has been going down since Volume 6 when Cinder re-recruited Neo back into her faction. Neo has now reacquired the Lamp of Knowledge, but there doesn't appear to be many options for her in regards to what she could do with it. By committing this act, she has straight-up betrayed Salem, meaning that whatever she's doing is meant to work against Salem. There would be no real purpose for Neo to simply run away with the Relic, and I feel that no question that Neo would possibly want to ask would have much effect on the plot (if she even _can_ ask a question). So then, assuming that Neo is mute and that the questions to Jinn must be spoken, Neo can't use the Lamp herself, meaning that her only options are to take it to someone else in the hopes that their use of it will benefit her in some way. Her only real options for that are the heroes and Cinder, and I find it very unlikely that Neo will approach the heroes even if she knew where to find them, unless of course, she stowed away on their getaway ship with it. Besides Cinder's long time-stop panning shot in the OP, it makes sense for Cinder to have Neo steal the Lamp for her again (if that is indeed what happened) if the Dark Maiden intends to execute her plan to betray Salem, given that Cinder's hatred of Salem (which has been seen as early as Volume 4) has come to a head in this volume especially. Despite Neo's recent feelings of discontent towards Cinder for treating her as merely an asset rather than a partner and not appreciating her talents, Cinder seemingly remains the only viable option for Neo in regards to having an actual future, now that she's betrayed Salem.

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

​@@dragonrune6800 Given how Neo was the one who stole the Lamp from them in the first place on top of all the evil things she's done whilst working under Cinder's command, I don't think they'll be too lenient on Neo even if she does show up to them with the Relic. I personally find it more likely that Neo will continue to work for Cinder, since despite Cinder's domineering attitude towards her, Neo still has much better odds of staying free when on Cinder's side than by going to either of the sides that she has been helping Cinder to hurt so much over the course of the show. Even if Cinder continues to see Neo as nothing more than a pawn or asset, at least the Dark Maiden will help Neo achieve what she wants as long as it aligns with Cinder's own "grand masterplan" (as Roman used to so eloquently put it), while in contrast, both the Hero faction and the Atlas faction will treat Neo as an untrustworthy and dangerous enemy.

[@dragonrune6800]

@@TheGreater-ScopeVillain You are more than likely right. There is another possibility- Neo can strike out on her own. What would she do on her own with a Relic? I am not sure.

[@dragonrune6800]

Ceni ! I am IMPRESSED! You pegged Neo *with just her eyes showing* !! Holy @#$!@

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

I mean, Neo is currently the only one in the show with that colour scheme of eyes, so it was obvious for me as soon as I saw them too.

[@shelbybayer200]

Salem definitely killed Summer that expression said it all Her words "Her again" Her expression said "Oh, right. I did take her away didn't I?" Long ago before his passing Monty Oum himself said "Summer Rose is dead" So the Theory that Summer could be a Grimm like the Hound is actually completely FALSE!! Unless Roosterteeth has decided to break apart Monty's original plot line after his passing they are not good people they practically stole Monty's art and reforged the story, please Roosterteeth don't be bad people and don't change anything Monty said before he passed away. Is what we should be asking them. #dontchangecanon If you agree that Roosterteeth should just put Salem as Summer's killer Cause Salem said that The Hound was AN Experiment which means she's only ever made the ONE Hybrid Grimm ………if you remember Cinder asked Salem what the Hound was. If another Grimm like the Hound exsisted don't you think Cinder would have known about all the way back in Volume 1 cause she was working for Salem ever since VOL 1 Meaning Cinder was probably with Salem when Summer fought her In Cinder's flashback she said she was 10 years old if you look up Ruby's age online the subtract one digit's value you'll get how old Ruby was when Summer "Disappeared" I'm calling it now Cinder witnessed Salem kill Summer then dust her body using magic Where do you think Cinder got the idea to Vaporize a body {Pyhrra's death back in Vol 3} using the magic powers she gained ? The Death of Summer Rose of course Salem has magic which means she can vaporize bodies too but for the Hound I'm thinking Salem was thinking. "Should I kill this Silver Eyed person or………shall I try something new ?"

[@tommygunn704]

You don’t know what Monty’s ideas were or what he wanted. People need to stop invoking his name whenever they don’t agree with a decision that is made.

[@dragonrune6800]

Please provide video link of Monty saying Summer is dead. NO ONE has said this. All we have known is that Summer took off on her own and hasn't come back. She is MIA.

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

We do not know Summer's fate just yet. Salem never outright stated that she ended Summer's life, only that Summer somehow challenged her at one point and failed. Personally, I think it's far more likely that Summer has been, or is going to be, turned into a creature much like the Hound. It's possible that she might just be dead, but I think that would be a much less impactful route to go down than the alternatives, unless of course, they go with an emotional flashback sort of thing instead. Though I also have wanted to see the possibility of Cinder witnessing Summer's death (the only reason why I haven't been talking about its possibility more is that Cinder hasn't yet appeared to have linked Ruby Rose back to Summer Rose, though I would like Cinder to later bring it up to Ruby in a reveal that she did once "know" her mother). The way Salem talked about the Hound, she made it seem almost like he was the first and possibly _only_ successful experiment so far, or at least a prototype for her to create better such creatures later on. Indeed, the introduction of creatures like the Hound into Salem's faction is a _very_ new idea, as in as early as the time of Volume 4, since as you said, Cinder would've been aware of it otherwise. Also, I don't think that Cinder of all people needs any inspiration to burn things to dust and cinders. As seen throughout her childhood and especially with Rhodes, she's been wishing and trying to burn people to death long before she ever met Salem. Besides, Cinder used her Semblance, Scorching Caress, to completely disintegrate Pyrrha, not her magic. Cinder used her magic to wield complete and total control of the giant Wyvern that she freed from that mountaintop (yes, Cinder can canonically use magic to control Grimm). Back to the Hound again, we know that this is only a recent idea though. As shown in Salem's conversation with Cinder in Chapter 4 of Volume 8, the Hound is only something just recently created, as Cinder was not aware of its existence until that point, and Salem said that so far she was pleased with the results of this new experiment. We know that during the time when Tock was alive (when she was hunting a young Maria Calavera), Salem still viewed the Silver-Eyed Warriors as a threat and was trying to wipe them all out. However, it seems that in the last several years or so, or perhaps at some point since the first episode, Salem changed her mind about what to do with them. Even during the time of Volume 4, the villains were discussing the fact that they had killed Silver-Eyed Warriors before, since that what they are expected to do with them. But when Salem instructed Tyrian to find the one who crippled Cinder, Tyrian thought that he was going to be sent to kill the Silver-Eyed girl as usual, but instead, he was unexpectedly told to bring Ruby back alive, leading to Cinder's confusion regarding this decision in Chapter 2 of Volume 5. So what changed? Was it her encounter with Summer Rose that was the turning point, and if so, what was it about Summer that was so different for Salem to be inspired to use Silver-Eyed Warriors to try and create Grimm like the Hound? We'll probably find out eventually.

[@cookiesandcream7668]

What if the question to the lamp is how Salem made the hound Also I like how jinn noticed neo and made sure she didnt have a question And emeralds semblance was able to be used on yang, jaune, and ren, and able to make Salem hear hazels voice from oscar Emeralds semblance is the most op by far

[@dragonrune6800]

The Hound is too recent for anyone to care about it. I am sure CRWBY will fill us in in other ways.

[@cookiesandcream7668]

@@dragonrune6800 yeah lol, but it is a huge plot relevant point, that Salem has, if she can do it to one and it was their for a few episodes to kill, I'm sure theirs more so it could be something about the hound

[@dragonrune6800]

@@cookiesandcream7668 Also remember there are very few people who know about it, in its entirety. Other than Salem, only The Schnees, Ruby and Blake know The Hound is part SEW. So, who would ask Jinn about it?

[@cookiesandcream7668]

@@dragonrune6800 salems faction know about it, including neo, Everyone at the schnee manor know about it (exept nora and maybe penny?) and everyone on the whale know about it, so anyone could really

[@dragonrune6800]

@@cookiesandcream7668 Not the SEW part, which is what I was referring to. Yes, others know OF The Hound, but not the important part. Why would those on the whale care about The Hound? Unless you are referring to Yang, Jaune and Ren [JRY].

[@daysand123]

Too bad we'll never get the match between powerhouses that is Yang VS Hazel now.

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

Yeah, but that's probably better for Yang since Hazel would in all likelihood annihilate Yang, Semblance and all.

[@daysand123]

@@TheGreater-ScopeVillain considering Nora made him look weak. I dont think so.

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

​@@daysand123 Nora charged up with Hazel's own power and knocked him out of the room, sure. But even that attack barely seemed to faze Hazel at all, as he simply got up, dusted himself off, and powered himself up even further with more Dust. We then see that later on in the fight, Nora and all the other heroes are tired out by Hazel's unrelenting power, with Nora stating in disbelief that she doesn't know how Hazel was still standing. So given that it took most of the heroes to simply take on Hazel when Hazel wasn't even fighting at his full potential, none of them should be able to stand much chance against Hazel one on one. When compared to Hazel, Nora is weak, just like many of the other Huntsmen and Huntresses.

[@almad.7824]

"of course i'm scared" was it just me or was that a ZUKO VOICE-

[@myrtenaster1876]

Neo cant even summon Jinn cuz she cant talk xD

[@FixTheWi-Fi]

Perhaps she could carve her question into the ground with Hush. Or just the word "Roman".

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

Apparently so, yes. Neo has now reacquired the Lamp of Knowledge, but there doesn't appear to be many options for her in regards to what she could do with it. By committing this act, she has straight-up betrayed Salem, meaning that whatever she's doing is meant to work against Salem. There would be no real purpose for Neo to simply run away with the Relic, and I feel that no question that Neo would possibly want to ask would have much effect on the plot (if she even _can_ ask a question). So then, assuming that Neo is mute and that the questions to Jinn must be spoken, Neo can't use the Lamp herself, meaning that her only options are to take it to someone else in the hopes that their use of it will benefit her in some way. Her only real options for that are the heroes and Cinder, and I find it very unlikely that Neo will approach the heroes even if she knew where to find them, unless of course, she stowed away on their getaway ship with it. Besides Cinder's long time-stop panning shot in the OP, it makes sense for Cinder to have Neo steal the Lamp for her again (if that is indeed what happened) if the Dark Maiden intends to execute her plan to betray Salem, given that Cinder's hatred of Salem (which has been seen as early as Volume 4) has come to a head in this volume especially. Despite Neo's recent feelings of discontent towards Cinder for treating her as merely an asset rather than a partner and not appreciating her talents, Cinder seemingly remains the only viable option for Neo in regards to having an actual future, now that she's betrayed Salem.

[@brennanhearn6342]

So, let's talk about Elm's response to Marrow's reaction to seeing team FNKI on the front lines. The short version is...she's right. Yes, they're kids, but they aren't children. They're, though young, adults, doing the job they literally signed up for, and on top of that, thanks to the heroes, they know the truth. They know what they're fighting, and they're FIGHTING ANYWAY. Because it's their literal job to fight it, and dammit, they're gonna do it. I'm proud of them.

[@JJR93]

Well, yes, but this is basically like pressing West Point cadets into service and sending them to the front. Atlas Academy doubles as officer training school for their military; It's a sign of desperation.

[@brennanhearn6342]

@@JJR93 The fact remains that they're doing the job they've trained all their lives for. Comparing them to West Point cadets is a very bad comparison.

[@JJR93]

@@brennanhearn6342 Actually no, it's a very APT comparison, go re-watch that World of Remnant video.....did you know that Citadel Cadets were pressed into service on the Confederate side during the Civil War? It happens, but it's a sign of desperation when you have to resort to that kind of thing.

[@brennanhearn6342]

@@JJR93 You're applying past events to the show's present, and the students of Atlas Academy aren't Citadel cadets. More to the point though, it's a bad comparison because West Point cadets are silver spoon up the ass college kids who've never had to fight in their lives while the students of Atlas academy have, as I said before, trained ALL their lives.

[@JJR93]

@@brennanhearn6342 I'm comparing a fictional world to a real-world analogue and you're being a recalcitrant ass about it. I don't think the story actually supports your views, nor does the World of Remnant video on Atlas Academy. Atlas is a highly militarized society but they're not *Sparta*....they're more like Wilhelmine Germany, say. You're taking issue with Marrow's dialogue, but I'm telling you there's a rational in-universe basis for it. That line is there for a reason, and that reason is because CRWBY is trying to show, through storytelling, just how desperate the situation is becoming for Atlas by having to throw their best & brightest students into the meat grinder......and your galaxy brain take is "Nuh Uh." Okay, buddy.

[@JackWolf1]

You know, it kinda just occurred to me... They don’t actually have to ‘kill’ Salem to beat her. If she keeps regenerating no matter what, why not just blast her to the moon and be done with it? Even if she is able to survive the hazards of space (assuming that they are the same as in our world), she’ll have a very hard time getting back to the planet on her own.

[@JuanRodriguez-ox6is]

Remnant doest have the capacity to send things to space. All dust loses power when leaving remnants atmosphere. Its why they don't have satellites for communication.

[@dragonrune6800]

So, same idea. Put Salem away somewhere she can't get out of. Any Maiden vault would work. Take the staff (as it's nearest), throw Salem in, seal it. Done.

[@queensalem2652]

@@dragonrune6800 Put her in a maiden vault???, If that would of worked , Ozpin would of done it already. We don't know how the vaults work, all we know is they are based in magic, something that Salem has

[@dragonrune6800]

@@queensalem2652 Ozpin would have/could not have as, at best, Salem and Oz would have been equal in power.

[@queensalem2652]

@@dragonrune6800 He could of tricked Salem and put her into a vault before he left with his children, but he didn't. A vault ain't going to work, we know how Salem story ends, she needs to learn the importance of life and death.

[@francescocappelli9071]

Possessive of ozma

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

The oldest being that's currently living and they're treating him like a precious little baby 😂

[@Tw0Dots]

*G O O P*

[@AlyssaAxen]

YYYYEEEEE BOIIIIIII

[@spencermalley10]

I really hope Neon survives this (she's on my list of potential Sun waifus)

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

What a random but oddly interesting comment.

[@spencermalley10]

@@TheGreater-ScopeVillain Couldn't really think of anything else I wanted to say that the other comments haven't.

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

@@spencermalley10 Fair enough.

[@ISAFMobius18]

7:47 Neo's Butt. You're welcome.

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

Impressive, but not nearly as impressive as Cinder's Butt from Volume 2, Chapter 7.

[@HappyPotat]

Uhhhh...That url is freaking me out.

[@WilliamTheUnkownShoutout]

Nice😀.

[@Jordan-gp3mj]

I still hate Yang’s Summer comment. But I feel a better scene with an angry Salem would her ACTUALLY doing something to Oscar without killing him. That would really set the scene even tho I’d hate it internally.

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

I don't see any problem with Yang's Summer comment. Yang has _always_ cared about her. Summer was Yang's "Super-Mom", the _"baker of cookies and slayer of giant monsters"_ and all that. I also think that Salem knows there isn't really anything she can do to Oscar that'll make him talk or do anything she wants. After all, she had Hazel go at him for ages and got no results, even after trying her own magic on him. Salem crippling Oscar or something would be a blow to the heroes, yeah, but it wouldn't really accomplish anything for her.

[@Jordan-gp3mj]

@@TheGreater-ScopeVillain You’re absolutely right about the Salem bit. I just like most action scenes they do in this show so I’m being petty and nitpicky lol. As for Yang, she said all of that to Blake but she’s been so fixated on Raven that the Summer line has no power to me. Other than that, she never spoke about Summer ever again until now, didn’t ask Oz, Qrow, or her Dad about her, and had no emotional reaction to Salem’s comment about her back in the last Volume. I know people grieve differently; it’s actually Ruby’s mom so of course she’d cry, and then Yang didn’t cause she may be have moved past that. But then, why bring her up now? We’ve never even seen her bring up Summer with Ruby. It’s literally always been about Raven.

[@Jordan-gp3mj]

@@TheGreater-ScopeVillain Of course I know she cares about Summer. But bringing her name up when she hasn’t spoke of her for so long is just weird to me. I can’t and won’t speak for anyone else. It’s just how I feel about it tho. Summer was gone, and Yang puts Ruby in a wagon and goes off to find Raven. Even when Salem says « her again? », I expected an actual reaction from Yang. But she can’t speak anymore cause it’s not her turn anymore. Maybe next episode she’ll think about bringing it up to Ruby, but I doubt it😭.

[@TheGreater-ScopeVillain]

​@@Jordan-gp3mj I wouldn't say that Yang's lack of crying when Ruby did, nor the fact that she was not Summer's biological child, would necessarily mean that she loved Summer any less than Ruby did. You can be grieving just as badly and not shed any tears, just like blood-relation has no real effect on how much one can care about another. Look no further than Weiss, who appears to love her friends more so than much of her own family. Yang, being the big sister, focused on comforting Ruby rather than fall into her own heap of sadness right next to her. And besides, why give Salem any further satisfaction? Yang may not talk as much about Summer's death anymore, but really she never did because it's too painful for her. It's completely natural for one to not want to talk about a topic that is a source of such emotional suffering, we can't expect for Yang to talk about her dead mother all the time. Her and Ruby know she's dead, and as far as they knew there was nothing more to say about it, so what's the point in opening up old wounds? The only reason she brought it up that one time was to try and teach Blake a valuable lesson when she was in a bad place. Yang needed to focus on the one mother she _did_ have left, rather than the dead one she loved just as much but could no longer do anything about.

[@Jordan-gp3mj]

@@TheGreater-ScopeVillain Yeah, I see your point. Everyone grieves different. But I didn’t mean Yang should’ve cried, I just wish there was a reaction. Something to show us how she feels, like when we at least saw some of the effects of her ptsd.