RWS Theory Discussion: Sentient and Non Sentient Engines

[@VictorTanzig1]

My theory as to why there are sentient and non-sentient engines - plot convenience. But yours is much better. Great work!

[@TaillampStudios]

Thank you, your video on it was just as good.

[@bendytheinkdemon8065]

Plot convenience, the best excuse for everything.

[@RandomTrinidadian]

@@bendytheinkdemon8065 right up there with Magic

[@stevenmosco20]

I personally like one of yours victor the revenant theory is the one I’m talking about cuz it makes the most sense out of the three theories

[@ExplosiveCookie]

What do you mean "plot convenience"? There's no plot that hinges on the fact the engines have faces? Every vehicle within the world of the RWS is sentient, on or off Sodor.

[@Shakes-Off-Fear]

I have my own theory. The faceless engines (as Victor Tanzig would describe them) ARE sentient, just not in the same way that the Sodor engines are. A faced engine can communicate with or ‘talk’ with a faceless engine, but a faceless engine can’t communicate with humans directly. Imagine if the hisses and creaks coming from an engine were its own native language that only a faced engine could understand. Steam engines are often said to be temperamental beasts and have ‘moods’ apropos of nothing so it makes sense to me that they are alive, but just not in a way we understand.

[@CassandraPantaristi]

I like this theory, probably because I just love languages.

[@Scrinwaipwr]

Aye, like when City Of Truro visited them, he had a personality and "wasn't conceited at all" yet did not have a face. So is obviously at least able to communicate with other engines. Reading the Railway Series it does feel like the personality of an engine is expressed in the oft random things a machine does on its own in real life, "slow down, Gordon" said his driver for example when an engine has so much steam and heat it "wants" to go faster.

[@fishpop]

I like this theory. Engines have their own language but those with faces can speak human languages, so can act as mediators for faceless engines.

[@CassandraPantaristi]

@@fishpop So that the engines can interpret to us what the faceless engines are saying.

[@fishpop]

@@CassandraPantaristi Yeah.

[@farawayquarry1330]

Theory: Non of the engines are alive, they are only alive if you “perceive” them as alive. Think of it when Awdry when he was a kid was listening to the engines going up a hill, and how he “imagined” that the engines were communicating through their puffing sounds. Same goes here, the engines of Sodor aren’t alive, only the people around them perceive that they are alive, as Awdry put it, the steam engines is the most human machine Humanity created

[@gordonfangirl5185]

How does Sad Story of Henry work in your theory

[@the.sketch.projekt8851]

@@gordonfangirl5185 the driver was being a jackass and stopped his engine in the tunnel and Sir Topham Hatt probably fired him and bricked Henry in the tunnel.

[@iBenjamin1000]

that is the most perfect explanation I never thought someone could give, of acknowledging the way people speak to the engines, and still giving a reason that makes real world sense

[@willbreckinridge8010]

@@gordonfangirl5185 The engine's brakes jammed as NWR #3 passed through the tunnel. Due to a lack of funds, the remoteness and darkness of the tunnel, and the Fat Controller's frustration, the engine was bricked up and a new tunnel was bored. A few months later when NWR #4 broke down outside the tunnel, #3 was able to be let out of the tunnel since it brakes had rotted away (Part of the reason why #2 assisted in getting the train to Vicarstown was because #3 didn't have any brakes, a major safety concern).

[@joelanderson4899]

@@AlyxForest I always assumed this to be the case. The engines don't really seem sentient in Awdry's original stories, at least not in the same way they are in the later TV show (Thomas Comes to Breakfast comes to mind)

[@azuma892]

It depends on whether the people who took the pictures of the engines understand them, like maybe those pictures of faceless engines were not taken by railway enthusiasts, it does make sense as the non-sentient pictures are mainly from the Talyllyn and Bluebell, both very famous early heritage railways. Those pictures could just be from news reports or something like that, the photographers were just doing their job, aka not really interested in the locomotives. The sentient pictures were by railway enthusiasts, or from Teddy Boston and Awdry themselves. Just is just my take XD.

[@Eroadmodel]

Many engine crews and fitters irl have always said that every engine has a different personality, even of the same class.

[@fishpop]

So i guess it's "Believing Is Seeing" in this case.

[@parker-boy98]

@@fishpop Okay then. In the TV adaptation, it's more clear cut that they all have faces.

[@TankEngine97]

I find it kinda funny that Awdry made the rule of only sodor engines having faces, only to end up breaking it later on. I've tried to come up with my theory but I just end up completely confusing myself in the process.

[@XzaviersKNYStudios]

I know right

[@ExplosiveCookie]

The rule was only ever for his model railway - not the books.

[@sarodanadian6496]

Ultimately it's just supposed to be one of those things you don't think to deeply about, because there isn't really any logic it.

[@22Tesla]

I have my own theory on that; it's up in the comments here. Take a look and maybe that could clear the confusion

[@pattonkesselring4247]

Well it’s like the line of sight rule in Star Trek that is sometimes followed and sometimes isn’t. For instance the Romulan warbird was designed the way it was so the warp nacelles could have line of sight to each other to create a stable warp field, as is the enterprise, but the defiant is not. Kinda just depends on what the deisgner wants and what the plot requires.

[@JoshProductions07]

My theory is that there a 3 types of engines in The Railway Series. Type 1 are sentient engines with a face (Thomas), Type 2 are sentient engines without a face (The Talyllyn Engines), and Type 3 are not sentient engines that don't have a face (Stephenson's Rocket).

[@stationmasterkuma]

I support

[@Pheonix.mp3]

@@stationmasterkuma me too

[@bernarda1247]

Isn’t stephensons rocket just a non sentient version of Stephen?

[@parker-boy98]

Stephenson's Rocket has a face in the TV series, also the Rocket shown in the book wasn't the real one, just a replica. And maybe it is sentient, just doesn't have a face. Like the coaches that inexplicably talk without faces.

[@E2ForLife]

In my AU there is called the Life Chemical it is blue substance that when put in the locomotive gives them life, in overhauls its removed and is kind of like a soul to the engines . But when scarping, two things can happen: one, the Life Chemical is removed, and the cutters depose of it. The 2nd option is the darkest. It's when the cutters use the torchs they...... forcefully cut off the faces.

[@SocieteRoyale]

ye I largely agree with your theory, I kind of always felt like the Rev wanted to showcase the "real" railways and their engines that he was a fan of outside the books. The engines and the railways he wrote about are basically just parodies, homages maybe a better way of saying it actually, to the railways he loved. There would be no Arnsdale without Ravensglass, no Skarloey railway without the Talylcyn. The realistic approach to the illustrations were almost like adverts for the real thing, to say to the reader, "look you can visit the "real" railway outside of the book universe!".

[@kodabear2856]

I like this theory a lot too!!!!!

[@Daniel_Huffman]

My personal theory is similar to a concept used by TheRailwayInspector3, where some engines don’t have faces, but can still talk. I like this, as it means that, in that universe, some faceless engines could still be sentient and choose not to talk, adding another layer of mystery to the matter.

[@TankEngineMedia]

Same

[@Jordan-vb8rt]

so it's basicly like big mickey in the CGI series he was alive and chose to not talk

[@volvoolympianforever]

My personal theory is all engines are alive in the universe of RWS. In the universe, all engines have a face no matter where they are, and the illustrations should be taken as a grain of salt. The reason why some engines are illustrated as faceless is simply because Awdry wanted to advertise them and tell kids that the engines without faces actually exists in real life. In the universe itself, they all have faces. We just never saw them with a face.

[@OleAlexanderBrunaes]

I have the same theory, in my head canon even all rolling stocks are sentient.

[@parker-boy98]

​@@OleAlexanderBrunaesWell they do talk in the narration, even when they don't have faces.

[@parker-boy98]

I like this theory. Of course, there is also the theory that the faces only exist for the readers.

[@TheLazyFusspot_3428]

Um, Flying Scotsman had a face in the illustration....

[@splonko9788]

My theory is that none of the engines are actually sentient, and none of them actually have faces. In an interview with the Rev. he talked about how as a boy he would sit and watch trains and the sounds the engines made sounded like a conversation. My own personal theory is that the characters and plots in the RWS are just the personifications of regular engines doing their work

[@StanBlankPlushelodeon]

I had this exact same thought.

[@aifrench14]

my personal theory on this is that Wilbert didn't want kids to go to Talylyn or Bluebell and be disappointed that the engines don't have faces or talk.... they are clearly sentient in his text as he describes their personality traits in the case of the Bluebell engines even down to Baxter being coarse in his language.... The fact that in the illustrations of Truro and Talylyn under construction they hide the face is clever positioning by the artist (both possibly John T.Kenney?) Because Scotsman and Stepney need to extensively interact you can't really hide their faces in that manner and of course (although as a result of the book) Stepney did have a permanently painted smokebox face for many years. Thomas and The Great Railway Show is a Christopher work so doesn't necessarily obey the same rules as Wilbert's theory and Clive Spong probably wasn't given the same instructions as Wilbert's artists were. I do like the idea of them gaining a face when they cross to the island but like you say it doesn't really work as although the image of Gordon could be Sodor or the mainland it clearly states he didn't know which way to look for pictures and later in the book when on display on the mainland they clearly still have faces... it's an interesting one to think about and I don't think there is a true right or wrong answer :)

[@Shipwright1918]

It should be noted that when Awdry made his model railways based on Sodor, he didn't put faces on the engines, something several present day Sudrian modellers have been emulating, myself included. I personally like to think the faceless engines are meant to be representing the real world ones, while in-universe they all have faces (as a nod to Awdry, I can imagine the Thin Clergyman getting cross with the book's illustrators in-universe for not getting the details right). When I kitbashed my E2, Gromit, ironically out of Thomas model, I chose to put a smokebox door on in the Awdry style and gave him the next number in line after the last real E2 (the last carried 32110, so mine is 32111), something Awdry liked to do with his fictional engines. If I was going to do an illustration of him in the RWS universe, he would have a face, while elsewhere he would not. Alternate universes and all that.

[@Jtube90]

My theory is that it's like a 50/50 dice roll, some engines get a face, some don't and some just get the sentience. There's probably a million holes in my theory lol

[@lieffian]

I like the revenant theory from victor tanzing’s series with the addition of people’s nicknames being more popular then their actual name (in short the theory goes that people who had a real passion for the railway’s were reborn as an engine or rolling stock which is why they know how to talk and know their name out of the works when built)

[@Jtube90]

@@lieffian that's a cool theory!

[@lieffian]

@@Jtube90 check out “stories of sodor” from victor tanzig which explains it

[@Jtube90]

@@lieffian I've watched it before

[@TheLazyFusspot_3428]

My theory is that Sodor has a reputation for being a safe haven for steam engines, which suggests that all the "voices" of the engines can be heard on Sodor, but not outside. It's all a matter of foreshadowing the era of dieselisation.

[@KingofGamingAndTrains456]

Here's my theory: the builders of an engine or piece of rolling stock can decide on whether it should be sentient or not. if they decide for it to be sentient, there would be two options: Type 1 sentient, where the engine/rolling stock can get a (customizable?) face, and Type 2 sentient, where the engine/rolling stock has no face but can still talk. This would explain how certain pieces of rolling stock in the books (i.e. express coaches), as well as Dolgoch, Talyllyn, City of Truro, etc. were able to talk despite not having a face.

[@That1LucaGuy]

This is what I think: It is that no engines are sentient, but Wilbert wrote these Sudrian railway stories that he heard, through the characters in the books. What happens on "real life" Sodor, and what happens in the books are two different things. Stories were taken from the island of Sodor throughout the years, then the authors interpreted these stories with character personalities in mind, created the "historical fiction" version of Sodor, (with faces) as shown through the published books.

[@That1LucaGuy]

looking at it this way creates the least amount of plot holes in my opinion

[@robinjollimore7312]

not trying to be rude but this is not true

[@Squid1562]

Whenever those illustrations of engines without faces popped up, they were always talking about the actual real life engine and Awdry was basically writing short adverts for the real life engines and railways. Thats why they dont have faces. It doesnt mess with the branding and image of the real life engines, while also exposing them to young audiences. We even see Stepney without a face in his own book when they're talking about the bluebell railway. With that in mind, it's a pretty safe bet that every vehicle in the universe is sentient

[@parker-boy98]

You're right, we do.

[@stfuyoutube423]

and as for stephenson's rocket, his funnel is just on top of his smokebox

[@MrBLUERANGERHERO]

Awdry broke his own rule a few times. Toby and Skarloey had faces when they were in England.

[@MrBLUERANGERHERO]

And that was BEFORE either of them came to Sodor.

[@sirwelcome]

There was no rule

[@TheGreyTurtleEntertainment]

Awdry was a notorious stickler for rules and attention to details. Which explains why it's all so contradictory and confusing, because rules themselves will eventually contradict and confuse themselves. It's just what happens when you have so much lore with so many tiny details. I.e. *it's all canon*

[@tonujogi8631]

My theory is that sodor engines are humans that were turned into living systems

[@ZstackZip]

My AU’s explanation is that a type of amoeba can grow on certain pieces of metal, which then, when used to build a vehicle, will turn the vehicle sentient

[@aaron_m_04]

My theory is that the depictions of the faceless engines are meant to be “photos” from real life/our universe

[@fishpop]

A theory i've thought of while watching this video is: Engines are always sentient but their faces are only visible by other engines when not on Sodor, which is how faced engines are seen on the mainland when Gordon & Thomas go there. The faceless engines seen, Talyllyn and the Bluebell engines, are photos taken on the mainland so appear faceless. Gordon had a picture taken for the newspaper, while on the mainland during Gordon Goes Foreign, which showed his face but Sodor native engines seem to retain their faces wherever they go. Maybe there's a quote-unquote "magic" aspect to the island that actually radiation or some kind of science shenanigans.

[@Sebdamememan]

Its not only your theory, its been confirmed that, the illustrations of engines with no faces are meant to represent their irl counterparts, while in the same sense their counter parts in the thomas world would have faces , so much more than a theory is more of a fact

[@mr.wheels6212]

It's kinda bone chilling about all the possibilities of how they are alive or maybe they something else entirely under their metallic shells...😮😳

[@22Tesla]

My own theory is this: The illustrators didn't give the faceless engines a face because they were illustrating from a photograph of the real engine, and just didn't give them faces. And when kids asked, Awdry just said "engines have faces on Sodor, cause it's a place where anything can happen." Kinda like how he re-purposed Henry's ENTIRE timeline to suit the fact the illustrators couldn't get him right, so he just made up a reason out of no where. They only gave Stepney and the diesels in that one illustration on the mainland faces because Stepney was going to have a face on Sodor and if the diesels didn't have faces, we wouldn't feel the danger present to be a steam engine on BR during this time. Same with the illustration of the scrap engines in that same book, it's meant to connect to the reader. If you just say a bunch of smokebox doors, you'd have no connection to the character. But that's just my theory for why it is in our world. in my own head-cannon engines without faces exist, but they can still talk like the express coaches do despite not having faces either.

[@newobanproductions]

I matter of fact had my own take on the whole "Faceless/nom-faceless" idea for a fictional universe inspired by the RWS. In this universe, steam locomotives were originally not sentient as they were just machines. That changed sometime in the 1840s when one of these "machines" mysterious gained a face and the ability to talk, shocking society back then. Even more shocking was that these "living machines" possessed the ability to control themselves. While it was horrifying back in like 1840-1860, it quickly became the norm and it continued to the present. This works for only steam locomotives but for modern locomotives, they do have the same abilities as the steam locomotives but don't have a face, unless their front has a grill (like Diesel, Rusty and Mavis). This's deliberate on my part as it makes it easier because of the amount of headcode features on modern locomotives, but also make them appear more menacing. But, this's all just my RWS AU's rule on sentient and non-sentient engines.

[@TankEngine75]

My Theory is that the Faceless Engines have Faces in the Books in the Thomas Universe,reason because in the Thomas Universe all engines have faces,no exceptions,Wilbert Awdry said to not take the illustrations seriously,if Sodor is the only place with Sentient Steam Engines then why do Douglas and Oliver have a face in Escape? 3:00 I think that's a North Western Engine in the background because of that Blue Livery Edit: wow I didn't realize my Theory was so similar to yours! I didn't watch the whole video while writing this comment!

[@Wolfric_Rogers]

I like your personal theory, it makes a lot of sense. Also, when Skarloey is telling Nancy about being built, Talyllyn is facing the other way, hiding his face.

[@masterdragon2698]

My personal theory is that (much like Victor Tanzig) the engines having faces is a random occurrence. Some engines magically get a face when they first run, others don’t. Another theory that I have heard is that the faces are just in the illustration. In the actual universe, they do not have faces, but are still alive and communicate with hisses and whistles.

[@strasburgrailfan90]

I really like your theory it makes a good amount of sense

[@herbiethelovebugfan5380]

Another good theroy is that Sir topham hat is mentally insane and hallucinates that the engines are alive

[@berkshireerielocomotive3322]

My conclusion has always been sentience is just a random occurrence with the Sodor universe. Though, after a period of years, certain vehicles and equipment start to gain a face. Awdry's rule contradicts itself as some of the trucks and coaches without faces could talk and express their feelings.

[@ScottishEngineStudios]

I personally think that it’s a mystery that was never meant to be solved, we never were meant to know how some engines gained faces, and we never really are meant to.

[@Jtube90]

Theory Idea: What kills an engine or rolling stock? Like do you remove the face? Destroy the body?

[@Lamp_2155]

Probably face because an engine can be in pieces and still be alive

[@Jtube90]

@@Lamp_2155 I meant completely destroyed the body

[@SoundwaveDevastation]

my theory is when a engine is completely built the face starts to form and if the engine well dies its replaced with a smoke box door

[@raresneagu8468]

In shed 17 bio fusion is the answer for sentient engines but non-sentient are normal locomotives

[@thechair371]

I'd like to see a video talking about how certain characters like the spiteful brakevan die getting squashed but Scruffy can live being torn apart.

[@Ramtamtama]

SC Ruffey was only reassembled in TTTE. In RWS he was scrapped

[@thechair371]

@@Ramtamtama it wasn't confirmed.

[@sarodanadian6496]

I always wondered this about not just the Railway series but also the TTE universe, why do some coaches, buses, freight cars, trucks, break vans, and cranes have faces but others don't? For example Bertie and Caroline have faces, but the fat controllers personal car doesn't.

[@VivianMakin]

I also wonder what material the faces are supposed to be made of. My theory is that its some kind of fantasy "biologic-metallic" alloy we don't have in "the real world". They seem impervious to anything, yet flexible and indestructible...as evidenced by the hit Peter Sam takes from some slate trucks.

[@shanerulez79]

Yeah honestly there's nothing stopping them from putting Henry's face on a new engine

[@thomas-thequestionableseri1095]

This is definitely plausible. I really like the idea that if you're picturing someone in your head that you've never seen before, say from someone elses description of them, you're not going to know what their face looks like, so you can't really form a detailed and coherent picture of them. Thus, the illustrations we see are from the thought perspective of an engine being told about them by another engine.

[@TSK_27]

I personally believe in your theory, it makes sense

[@LBSC70]

Here is my theory but this applies to rolling stock as well Engines and rolling stock don't need a face to talk Example: the coaches on Gordon's express in Thomas and Gordon say you can't get away and city of Truro talks to Montique And engine and rolling stock with a face just can happen by chance , same way vice versa

[@randomstufliker2]

I once heard that the engines' faces are, more or less, a hyperbole of the nature of steam engines (or at least how steam engines are viewed by enthusiasts) in that they all have their own tendencies, quirks and character. They have faces because their stories are told from their point of view

[@AmirPrinceling]

I personally lean towards the idea that an engine doesn't need a face in order to talk, which is why many engines on others railways are shown without faces yet still said to be capable of talking. Your theory is also good too though, and makes some sense. All the faceless engines we see in the illustrations could simply be that way because they're real engines and that's how they look like in real life, while in the RWS Reality every engine, barring certain ones like Stephenson's Rocket, have a face and are capable of talking. I think it mostly comes down to Wilbert wanting to keep engines having faces a quality unique to Sodor but not elsewhere as engines in other places are actually real and don't have faces in real life.

[@warriorcharizard3404]

I like to believe in 2 theories, yours and cictor tanzigs.

[@c_t_f]

My headcanon is that the faces work kind of the same way as Garfield's "talking" works. The engines- to the average passenger in the show and illustrations- don't see the engines with faces, just as regular non sentient engines. But there are some who see the engines with personalities, usually those who deal with the engines a lot (like their driver/fireman, TFC, etc.) that project personality onto the engines. Thus faces!

[@dabluepittoo-aqua4213]

The theory you suggest honestly makes the most sense. Stepney's book is generally the most inconsistent in regards to faces, what with the book's star having no face in his first illustration, but has one is all the other ones. All engines and some rolling stock have sentience in the RWS universe I think.

[@napoleondynamiteyttp4198]

honestly i like to see it as theyre ALL sentient, Awdry did say that some illustrations are inaccurate (like James extra leading wheels at 0:41), so they were drawn without a face for children who visit them in real life to not be disappointed.

[@WesternOhioInterurbanHistory]

I believe there are just three types of engines: Ones with faces, sentienet Ones without faces, but sentienet (hybird) And ones with no faces and not sentienet.

[@Jam_Van]

My personal theory is that the faces are parasites. I know I sound crazy but it does answer a few questions. Like how some vehicles have faces and some don't. They just don't have a parasite on them. The parasites would be native to sodor and only engines on sodor and classy engines from around the world would have them fitted. They would also be removable which would explain the bit in that one rws book where it talks about Henry's smokebox door not closing correctly. And also explains Henry's rebuild. Just transfers the parasite from one engine to another.

[@_An_Edits_]

My theory is that non centient can talk see and hear but just don't have a face

[@West_Coast_Mainline]

The faceless engine are sentient, tallylyn and city of turo, who have no face, talk, and we see faced engines from britian

[@Mull_Shapaad]

Not only sodor. It's just that sodor is the only railway that doesn't have any non sentient steam locomotives. Other railways also have steam engines with faces. Sodor actually used to have non sentient locomotives but since they weren't actually alive, they were all scrapped first! Not saying sentient locomotives can't be scrapped.

[@wyattm6782]

I Agree with you!. This can work! They say they talk so yes. IT WORKS

[@MrNoUsername]

It is pretty well known that steam locomotives are one of those machines that behave almost like animals, many engine drivers remark that each engine have their own unique “personalities” as it were. Taking this and Wilbert’s rule at 1:57 into account, here’s my theory: The engines do indeed have faces on Sodor. For visiting engines, they gain a face as well. But when any of the engines, NWR-owned or not, venture outside of the island, their faces turn into smokebox doors. Even on the mainland, Sodor engines can still communicate with the mainland engines but through a different way. Perhaps they communicate through their exhaust sounds or the hisses of steam or maybe they talk with their whistles which is the most common human perception of “communication” between engines So why do the engines still have their faces when the leave Sodor? Or why some mainland engines have faces while others don’t? The illustrators took into account that some readers may not have been around any sentient engines before, so they illustrated the mainland engines with faces along with a balance of faceless engines to help the idea of sentient engines make more sense those readers (Yes I know it doesn’t solve all the problems and there’s still some flaws with this theory but that’s how I like to see it)

[@Dr.CrowHead]

I personally believe that some engines are built with faces, while some are built without faces.

[@lieffian]

In the Thomas universe, yes there are other sentient locomotives and rolling stock around the world as proven by “the great railway show” and “big world big adventures” arch/movie

[@TonsOfTrackmasters]

exited for this

[@FictionalADDON]

It’s just the rarity of what comes to life and some engines off Sodor can be sentient

[@deetee2011]

Great theory, however it raised a question. Are the non sentient engines like captain Baxter or bluebell alive in the Thomas universe?

[@sarodanadian6496]

this goes back to the question why do some trucks have faces and some don't?

[@themistakeisintentional-dn5df]

Whatever force allows trains to be given life and gain consciousness and sentience, I imagine is taken away whenever an engine is destroyed or scrapped. It's why we don't just see the dead, rotting faces of scrap locomovies, but rather just regular ordinary smokeboxes. I picture the transformation of Lady from The Magic Railroad, just in reverse if that makes sense. I like to imagine at the very least, whatever key element that keeps them alive is destroyed first during the scrapping process, so the engines don't have to endure the process of being torn apart piece by piece. 3:48 This theory isn't entirely out of the question. We see this very thing with rolling stock and other vehicles/machinery in all three iterations of Thomas. RWS, model, and CGI.

[@McSpongeCartoons]

Good shit, rws analysis is genuinely interesting.

[@TheDefiantPirate]

Personally I like the way that Victor Tanzig has set his Stories of sodor series up with It's a random chance and that there are those Non- faceless vehicles outside of sodor along side faceless versions infact I am trying to write my own stories about an American Island of Sodor counterpart it's not going well at the moment I have the island planed as well as the industry and everything else it's just I am having a hard time writing stories about them is all By the way it was victor Tanzig who sent me here!

[@saulgodinez3667]

Great video and theory

[@TheTTTEFan]

In My Opinion There Are 3 Types Of Engine’s. The Engine’s That Got The Long End Of The Stick, The Engine’s That Got The Short End Of The Stick, And The Engine’s That Were Screwed Over. The Engine’s With The Long Part Are Engine’s Like Thomas And Gordon, The Engine’s With The Short Part Are Engine’s Like Mallard And D199, And The Engine’s That Got Screwed Over Are Engine’s Like Talyllyn And Dolgoch.

[@SWIGGITYSWAGWIGGITYWAG]

If a locomotive has a face, how do they access the smoke box? In one story of henry they talk about opening his smokebox door. Of so, does the face disappear if they open it?

[@Mull_Shapaad]

The non sentient Stevenson's rocket wasn't the real rocket! It was the rocket found in the television series that was the real one! The non sentient one was just a replica

[@brightonproductions8208]

My theory is that all of the engines are sentient including the not rail ones,including the rolling stock,so my theory is that all of the rail and non rail vehicles are sentient,but except sir topham hatt's car,mr Percival's but i have a theory,in thomas head canon,the rail and non rail vehicles and rolling stock were sentient using gold dust,but the magic railroad its still "not canon" in my thomas head canon,and how was the fat controller and the thin controller's cars weren't sentient,gold dust couldn't make them sentient,as for the engines themselves,the only ones weren't sentient were... Stephenson's rocket,the talyflyn railway engines and the drg locomotives so my theory is that the non sentient engines aren't sentient because the gold dust couldn't make them sentient,and that's my theory

[@Scrinwaipwr]

When City Of Truro visited Sodor, he had a personality and "wasn't conceited at all" yet did not have a face. So is obviously at least able to communicate with other engines. Reading the Railway Series it does feel like the personality of an engine is expressed in the oft random things a machine does on its own in real life, "slow down, Gordon" said his driver for example when an engine has so much steam and heat it "wants" to go faster. This can apply to an engine with or without a face, arguably to any machine at all. Demonstrably the island of Sodor is not the only place in The Railway Series universe with sentient engines; this video shows plenty from other places. Actually, very few of the engine characters are originally from Sodor and were built in places like Plymouth and Doncaster.

[@geec5386]

The eyes and mouths are on the back of their face so when they are being cut up their face gets cut off I know it's very creepy and gory but it's how it works since it's shown in the books when we look at the trains being scrapped And you can tell that his face has been cut off but he still has his eyes and mouth

[@JLWCproductions]

I'm with any of these theory's lads

[@dustynutz2175]

I have an extension to your theory I think Awdry like told the illustrators that engines outside sodor aren't sentient because if kids saw these engines they'll be disappointed with the exception of some (Ps.This Is A Joke Lmao)

[@bow-tiedengineer4453]

Honestly, though, I think that might be at least part of why he did it this way. Other than the great railway show, he generally depicted specific real engines as they were IRL, so as not to accidentally make the real thing seem boring.

[@joshuahughes5647]

Did Wilbert forget we see Toby in East Anglia and he has his face? So no his rule doesn’t work within his stories. The engines being scrapped on the mainland have faces. The engines at Barrow have faced both sodor and British railway. Taillamp your theory makes the most sense because looking at these stories where the real railways are mentioned Wilbert did so to advertise those railways. The only way these theory would be broken is if we see sodor engines engaging with “the real world” engines. P.S. If i remember correctly Wilbert drew faces on the engines because he thought it would look better than the empty smoke box door.

[@sdmedia1323]

The idea that all the engines have faces and these illustrations are in people’s heads is backed up REALLY well when you consider that in the railway series, Wilbert Awdry existed and wrote the RWS. Yep, the RWS exists within the RWS. So maybe these are the illustrations from the books, and all the engines have sentience.

[@thesocialistlion2904]

Honestly I don't like the idea of everywhere being normal exept for Sodor. Like could you emagine the stadus Sodor would have irl? It would most defenitly not be considered normal that the trains have faces. I like the RWS/TTTE just existing in a world where vehicles have faces.

[@percy215]

After watching a scene in the adventure begin, i think it kinda true, at some point when the fat controller is talking about gordan being stuck in the hill i see a image which appears to be edward tv model, which had no face, so it might be true.

[@JohntheLNERP2]

I think the book where Thomas visits the National Railway Museum in York Toby's Seaside Holiday Stepney and the other railway diesels all prove that Sodor isn't the only railway with sentient engines

[@parker-boy98]

I kind of figured the faces were just a style choice.

[@legdig]

I do remember that Thomas has a big of a "ship of Theseus" moment when he's has his running board rebuilt after his accident with the station masters house, Not entirely sure if he's himself or a different engine. I think that makes for an interesting thought experiment since its Thomas himself considering it.

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

So the scrapped engines are seen with smokebox doors. So do the faces just disappear?

[@MacsensRailway]

Well here’s the thing the engines that had faces did go to Sodor but when thay when’t back and still had faces

[@JourneyLT]

Here's my take: Only non-faceless engines are sentient. The stories where faceless engines speak are a fantasy, for example, City of Truro is shown to be faceless, and therefore I believe that never happened, but was rather a story, the writer personifying the faceless engine. Meanwile, non-faceless sentient engines also exist. The reason behind how they come into existence is unknown, however it's likely that since a non-faceless engine seems to know its own name, this is from a previous living human with the same name, somehow got re-incarnated as a sentient locomotive, and it's most likely the Fat Controller and his desecendents became enthused with these rare engines, and sought to collect them, thus making Sodor a land of sentient engines. I believe, even though we don't see it on screen that Percy was always named Percy, even before the Fat Controller met him. He probably learnt off-screen from the previous owner that Percy was named Percy, and then he chose the name "Percy" to make it clear to Percy that he talked with the owner about buying him. It's a custom when buying a non-faceless engine to give it its real name to confirm the purchase. I also think, now this part is controversial, but the names we know the engines as (Thomas, Edward, Henry, Gordon, James, Percy, etc.) are fake public names. This is what the engines are known as by the wider community, but the owner knows their real name, which is tracked to confirm ownership. This real name is changed upon a change of ownership too. It's like a password to owning the engine. When buying Percy, we don't see on screen the Fat Controller say Percy's real name, but during the purchase he will. After the purchase, Percy's real name will be changed. The engine and its owner will come to an agreement on a new real name. Sentient engines can move by themselves, but often choose not to, due to their own reaction times and awareness being lesser than humans. Therefore, they consent and accept the idea of a driver and fireman passing instructions down to them through how much coal is placed into their firebox, and how their levers are pulled. It's also helpful to them if they happen to break down. An engine on its own cannot call out for help, but a human can. They can choose to move at their own pace, as long as their mechanics allow them to. For example, Gordon pulling Thomas, Gordon chose to start up earlier to punish Thomas for playing tricks on him earlier, or Thomas starting early because he was too excited to wait for his coaches in Thomas's Train. They can also whistle at will. This explains their unusual whistle sounds, that sound unlike any known steam engine. Here's where I differ from Victor's theory. Non-faceless engines in my view don't have unique rights. They can be bought, sold, or even scrapped without consent. However, it is very socially unacceptable among the rail community to scrap a non-faceless engine without consent, and with consent, it should be done in a way that peacefully ends the life of the engine beforehand. In the Stories of Sodor, this is done through something called "Black Water" My view is giving a sentient engine Black Water makes it so it loses sentience, and along with that, its face, becoming faceless, and once faceless, there are no social customs that govern the treatment of that engine. In the past, I hypothesise the scrapped engines that we see on Sodor are the results of disobedient engines, being forced to take Black Water against their will, and then being scrapped. This doesn't happen later on, as it is incredibly taboo to do so unless the engine consents to ending its own sentience. Just some theories I have

[@evanddboi2097]

So the engine must give black water to make them faceless pretty interesting

[@toby070]

So in this world, trains have faces... Then a Reverend came up with the idea of trains having no faces, just the smokebox door. That's the idea I get from it: An inverse train book.

[@sirwelcome]

All the engines have faces

[@UA-51]

Here’s a theory: Is Thomas really an E2 or a look alike

[@UA-51]

@@gideonlastnamenotfound1578 or even, dare i say; Furness G5

[@UA-51]

@@gideonlastnamenotfound1578 agreed

[@amyrodgers4252]

Personally, in my own au, faceless engines are very much sentient like non-faceless engines, except for them, their faces just never appeared for some unknown reason. They can communicate in a more telepathy like way with the non-faceless engines. Due to a lack of a face, they're also considered somewhat legally blind, though some might have just a pinhole of vision.

[@JintyGreen]

Honestly, I think your theory makes sense. Naturally, the Railway Series was intended to be realistic. So when the engines talk about their home railways, as in the case of Stepney, they're thinking about a real railway that their real basis works on. Thus, it makes sense that the engines they reminisce about that are depicted in these illustrations are non-sentient,since they're all railways outside of Sodor.

[@sirwelcome]

So, how does Gordon retain his face when he leaves Sodor? How do Skarloey, Stepney and Oliver have faces before coming to Sodor?

[@JintyGreen]

@@sirwelcome In those cases, we are following Awdry's retelling of events, and reasonably he would characterize the engines as being alive, since experiencing these events with the engines having their sentience removed would be boring and disorientingly inconsistent.

[@sirwelcome]

@@JintyGreen not sure what sense that is supposed to make

[@tenacious3911]

I think Awdry was probably using "Sodor" as shorthand for his whole fictional universe. Notably he says "IN" Sodor, not "ON" Sodor, possibly implying in the universe where Sodor exists.

[@mcfc_lads1894]

Hey yall, pizza productions here. I've thought of some theories between faceless and non faceless engines. Here we go lol. THEORY 1: As we see in some illustrations, stepney and gordon are in mainland stations. gordon being in barrow, and stepney in some sort of station but since we see some br classes, we can assume its in the mainland. If we analyze that, the non-faceless engines like talyllyn, dolgoch, an douglas aren't around any sodor engines. And as i said earlier, stepney and gordon were around mainland engines. So, we know that when talyllyn is near skarloey or when dolgoch is near rheneas, they can talk, and in that sketch, skarloey and rheneas don't appear. So in conclusion for theory 1, non-faceless are given faces when with a sodor engine, but have no face when in normal london. THEORY 2: This is a similar entry as the last one but kinda different. This time, they ONLY get faces after they cross vicarstown bridge. So this time, engines from sodor don't have to be in the mainland to give other engines grants to use faces, but engines from the mainland ENTER sodor for faces. For example, spamcan/D.199 and talyllyn ONLY have faces because they came to the island of sodor, and if we look back to some model series stuff, it says its an island of magic. so, we've came to another conclusion, they only have faces because of the stuff that happens on sodor. So finally, when a train enters sodor, they are granted a face. But then, how do the engines of sodor still have faces when they leave sodor? well heres a quick one. When an engine is built or shipped to sodor and has lived there basically forever, they have the permission to keep their faces so that will explain why sodor engines can leave sodor and still have faces. Thanks for your time, this has been -pizza productions.

[@HMSHOOD1920]

At 5:09 in the top left pic, the bigger tank loco is said to be sentient, but he just doesn’t have a face.

[@ilikeminecraftgaming9331]

My theory is that only sentient engines can understand non sentient ones,this,again,makes sense why Skarloey is having conversations with Tallylyn.Most humans,the exception for this are for the humans that are more in tune to non sentient engines then most,think driver,fireman,and maybe kids,or some people who have special connections to steam locomotives and don't view them as tules,(like myself irl!)because they still think they are alive and can communicate in there own unique way.

[@trainguy3277]

Here's my theory it might be a little confusing but I'll try anyway so basically some engines are built with faces (duh) some are built without faces but can still talk (like in tugs) and some are just built without faces but can't talk but that's just a theory a train theory

[@sodorislandstudios]

Very well done!

[@deathmisser85]

My theory is that all engines in the "Sodor universe" are Non Sentient like in our universe and the only reason they had faces in the books was to explain the events around the engines more clearly, for the reader to understand.

[@robinjollimore7312]

thats stupid

[@project-x1748]

My theory is that all the engines around the world and the NWR have faces but the Rev W Awdry when making the railways series books. Had the illustrators draw the engines that have faces without the face Because that the why he wanted it to be.

[@vxskud]

Do the sentient machines in the universe count as golems?

[@LOTUS-ARTS001]

theres a chance it could be because of a type of coal/diesel (basically the type of fuel) once the first firing happens. there is a possibility that theres a type of special fuel thats used

[@pilky7]

Yesss tysm

[@warriorcharizard3404]

Concept: Thomas's arrival.