Ryan Burge: The Rising of the "Nones"

Ryan Burge is a professor of political science at Eastern Illinois University and specializes in religious demographics. He’s the author of the new book "The Nones: Where They Came From, Who They Are and Where They Are Going." Perhaps surprisingly, Burge has also been a pastor in the American Baptist Church for more than 13 years.
“I’m always interested in when things changed, like when things flipped from being more religious to less religious and what generation got caught up in that,” Burge tells “Freethought Matters” co-hosts Dan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor. “And if you look at Gen X, it’s interesting because on almost every dimension, they look a lot more like their boomer parents than they look like Millennials. So you really see this huge drop off between Gen X and Millennials.”
Learn more about the Freedom From Religion Foundation at ffrf.org.

[@sally8234]

I'm 74, boomer, and my sister and I were brought up in southwestern Pennsylvania in an evangelical religion. In our teens we often spoke about our serious doubts about all the stuff we were taught in Sunday school. When I began working and left home I stopped going to church and celebrating religious holidays. My sister got married and stopped going to church also. For years I guess we just didn't care what we were called and seldom spoke about our atheism. Ultimately, It took us years to deprogram our indoctrinated brains. It's only in the past 15 or 20 years that we have become comfortable talking about our disbelief and calling ourselves atheist. She, unfortunately, passed away in 2020 but she shoved the praying pastor out of her hospital room. I was so proud of her. I would be very happy if, before I die, religion went away and its influence over our political life died along with it. That would be the ultimate freedom for the entire planet.

[@weevolvetogether]

Change is usually slow, but I share your vision. Religion is mental illness.

[@bobh5087]

My condolences on the loss of your sister. A lot of people (including myself) can relate to your story. You and your sister were definitely not alone.

[@janwoodward7360]

SW Pennsylvania? I went to Seneca Hills Bible Camp near there. Hated it! Became an atheist at the age of 14. Just turned 70.

[@kdub6800]

Gen X here. Former Southern Baptist. Atheist since 2012. I doubted for many, many years, but the Internet was indeed key to help the final shoe to drop.

[@Melody.Joy.23]

This gives me hope 💜

[@wallacewallace4801]

What hope is there?

[@faircompetition1203]

A Pastor who refers to people's belief as "the market" - very telling about where these churches really go .

[@drumcircler]

When nones are one we win.

[@cps_Zen_Run]

Humanity benefits.

[@wallacewallace4801]

How sad

[@andreadiamond7115]

Great content.

[@silverwolfmonastery]

It is nice to listen to a Christian that actually understands the significant of data.

[@BenYork-UBY]

Twofold reason: 1. Better communication of atheist philosophy 2. Evangelicals drowning themselves in their own BS. Including: Bad arguments, bad epistemology, strawman attacks on atheism, attacks on science, hypocrisy, and supporting corrupt people

[@ronald3419]

I can say from my own lifetime experience that you have nailed it on 2. A lot of us Boomers fell for some of their arguments but those did not hold up with time and the future generations with Internet access at hand could get alternate info quickly.

[@kontiuka]

Gen-Xer here who has proudly shed religion for good.

[@mizotter]

Excellent, illuminating conversation. Thank you, Professor Burge, for sharing with FFRF audience in a good way. Thank you, Annie Laurie and Dan, for a great interview. I appreciate all of you!

[@historicalbiblicalresearch8440]

When I was young everyone smoked if you didn't smoke people laughed at you. Every time someone gave up smoking that cast doubt in the minds of their social group but it was a slow process.

[@jeanettecook1088]

Thank you both for another informative video. Your guest Ryan was very interesting. I was raised in a Southern Baptist fundamentalist family... so great to see a SB preacher doing a constructive thing like writing a book about NIPs and Nones! A "Post-Christian" America...! 😄 👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@mizotter]

He is in the American Baptist Church, not SB. I was once AB long ago. If you don't know about the denom, this channel does a good job of explaining the differences: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWbQkoOrj9Fml9U

[@elainegoad9777]

I'm a boomer. We're not all "people of faith" ( I hate that term !) I appreciate your show !

[@Raydensheraj]

Just here to enjoy FFRF bringing the "good news" of Christianity loosing rapidly in numbers... Love you guys...

[@Otherwise88]

The voting trends fascinate me. I agree that the Democtatic party has been coasting on simply being "not the other guy."

[@SonovaBish]

His comment about the the first thing to go, church attendance, and the last thing, belief in god, matches my own experience. There was a gap of 7 years between the two. I'm Gen X.

[@FreethinkersInternational]

Love it! I’m looking forward to my interview with Dan in 3.5 hours! :) Live on our Facebook group! Love what you guys do!!!

[@bobh5087]

A very interesting show. Many thanks to everyone. 👍

[@Dodgerzden]

It means the human species is slowly evolving, but evolution is still painfully slow.

[@jamielansing1405]

Not everyone has the opportunity to attend college but that doesn’t necessarily make them uneducated….those of us who have a zeal for learning find other ways…..I’d rather not be discounted because I didn’t attend college.

[@silverwolfmonastery]

I am a nurse. Meeting uneducated people is interesting. I get to see how the intelligent ones have found alternative ways to train their brains. Uneducated intelligent people are among the most interesting people I meet. Intelligence will find a way. So GO YOU! I honor the intelligence and wisdom of you and people like you. You are among my favorite people.

[@pj3998]

Thank you for all that you do.

[@socksumi]

When Christians discuss why people leave the church they never consider that the "nones" actually reject the core doctrines of Christianity. They prefer instead to blame anything and everything except the actual Christian beliefs themselves. They refuse to accept that anyone could ever find fault with their precious beliefs.

[@howdoyouknow1218]

Indeed. It is similar to a blame-the-victim mentality. I wonder if the belief that they are special and chosen feeds into arrogance and narcissism, so they can’t see any fault of their own. It’s easier to say “you just want to sin” than accept that others can see through their modern mythology.

[@andresvillarreal9271]

Thank you for inviting a real expert in statistics. We are not well served by the thousands of statisticians in name only, who forget nuance and detail in favor of simplicity and punch.

[@catmeldo]

Another enlightening show. Interesting data.

[@louisanow]

Given organized religion's habitual overreach for mastery over * everyone * else, Separation of Church and State needs to be so much more than merely maintaining separate lanes for each. Both State and individuals (especially kids and public schools) need active * protection * from * religion * , not just separation. The more “outreach” contact I experience from my local religious extremists, the more obvious this becomes and the further left I go.

[@fonosmith1930s]

To the producers of the ffrf programs: I just wish Annie Laurie would get her mike adjusted so that what she says doesn't sound so muddy or muffled. Please listen to how she sounds on these programs and adjust the sound system so she can be better understood.

[@louisanow]

Ryan Burge mentioned “the Baptist Tradition” at the end, and how it mainlines going out to make more disciples (paraphrasing). Baptist tradition still includes major anti-government and anti-intellectual/ education teachings. We should all remember that when we talk about Separation of Church and State, and who or what that should really protect as we work to bolster that divide.

[@carlose5751]

Quite professional research and researcher.

[@teddy1234599]

What an advance it is for the people in America that non other than a priest would publish a book demonstrating that we "Nones" are "winning". N.B. Born/raised a strong Xtian, I've been a highly-moral atheist since 1967 (boy were we a microscopic part of the population back then!)

[@yvonnesmit2173]

good show

[@dvonzosch461]

All babies are born *NON Theist* ; they have to be _told_ that there IS, indeed, an unseen god, and ALSO told which religion is the One True Religion ™, by their parents, who coincidentally, happen to be the members of that One True Religion ™

[@Marchant2]

Religion is an unappealing option of you choose to live your life as a decent human being.

[@GenerationX1984]

Religion is for people who prefer ignorance over knowledge and want simple answers to complex questions while holding to a mostly black and white view of the world. Those types of people will never leave religion.

[@hnybee113]

I am a late Generation Xer. I feel I connected to millennials bc my older boomer siblings and older generation xer brother. My nieces are millennials and aren't religious. But my older boomer sister got more religious later in life and right wing.

[@arguescreamholler]

The problem with religion is ignoring the facts. To believe in a God today. You must consciously ignore all facts and reality. *People are fooled and tricked Not To Read The Entire Stories As Written In The Bible.* In fact. Fooled not to read the stories period. Just follow and do what the holy person said to do.

[@danielmocsny5066]

Wait until science figures out how to massively boost the human IQ. Then you'll see religion and all other forms of irrationality (science denial, etc.) drop off a cliff.

[@MrBizinfo]

I have never referred to myself as Christian or a god believer.

[@krisbest6405]

Seems it is energy that runs the universes, when you need to replace this power with a thinking entity it,s too easily jumped on by power hungry individuals.

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

What? No internet when boomers were young? I think Ryan is getting the WWW mixed up with the internet. The internet was already up and running for nearly a decade when I was a teenager in the late 70's. Sure there were no so called "Social media" sites, and besides being slower by far, there were plenty of USENET groups exchanging info, in debates and poking at each other. In the 80's when a Boomer made the WWW (World Wide Web) which is just a more efficient, capable, and faster protocol, the internet became more widely available, and being easier to publish on and opening the doors for anyone to participate, it developed into the great communications system it is now. If anything, Gen X started the social media platforms, the personal data mining market and other ills it has today! Well, I am still glad it's easier for most people to get the information they are looking for, with a bunch of what they may not, and so find that there are people who think differently, and if they have any brains, can use it to explore it all and with a bit of reasoning and rationality can figure out that skepticism is the better rout to truth than prefab beliefs.

[@binasharma7128]

Why would you charge to join in this group, while joining in any religious group is free. The membership fee--although it’s a small amount -may have kept people like me from joining in this noble mission.

[@frankwhelan1715]

Maybe they, (or another atheist channell) will talk to him about why he believes.

[@scofah]

Good conversation. But your guest got one thing very wrong. Government *doesn't* ruin everything. Government and the law enable us to solve our differences and care for one another without resulting to violence. If I believed in one miracle (which I don't) it would be politics. Politics is a kind of miracle. Politics allows us to solve our differences without killing each other. The government solves many problems. Everything is political. I'm really tired of people trashing politics and government. Yes, we can get better. Yes, we can make things fairer. Yes, we can do more. But it *never* helps to generalize that government sucks. Here's a list of our Democratic accomplishments and platform: Social security Medicare Voting rights Women's rights LGBTQ+ Clean air and water The GI Bill Environmental protection Public schools Medicaid Gun control Science Rule of law Separation of state and church Minimum wage The GI Bill The fairness doctrine Vote for Democrats. The Republicans want one thing- to make rich people richer. We must **defeat** Republicans in elections. We must win elections to get the power to pass more good legislation. Especially taxing the rich more.

[@arguescreamholler]

I never really believed the churches. Although believed there was a god. *The Churches Refused To Read The Stories As They Are!* Why? Remove scriptures and provide their own interpretation of them. THIS CAN'T BE OF GOD! I noticed at 7, 8, a very very young age. *We had SUNDAY SCHOOLS With Printed Teaching Books, Workbooks, And Test!* For stories we never read completely.

[@martinrenner2992]

Um, definitely don't title anything the NIPS. Haha...

[@vernonkroark]

Yeah, let's not use the term "nip."

[@Irishmule169]

I can’t comprehend why it’s taken this long for grownups to stop believing in fairytales!!! 26:34 guess his Republican pep rallies in services on Sunday are separate…