Ryan Sheldon and Jake Lauber Explain Advanced Forehand Mechanics

[@andrewdorsettproductions]

Why didn't this video get uploaded 4-5 years ago!? So what Ryan is talking about with the UCL at 3:00 and how severe it can be on your elbow when you lead with your elbow is what has happened to me. My UCL is in horrible condition and I am now scheduled to get a Tommy John Surgery done to replace the UCL in my right elbow. Over the course of 4-5 years of not conditioning/strengthening my arm as well as mainly correcting poor form, I have a bone spur that developed over my UCL to stop the tearing of my UCL. It has limited my range of motion to where I can't even fully extend my right arm to the normal 180 degrees. I can maybe get 150 degrees before it locks up. For anyone reading this, PLEASE don't brush off elbow soreness and post round numbness like I did. I spent 2-3 of the last few years to where I couldn't play more than 18 holes a week before it would hurt. I use to throw 400ft forehands in college (2017), but without continuous strength training, warming up before rounds, and working on form in the fields, I have really ruined my arm. Don't end up with a 1+ year forced break from disc golf. All I want to do is go out and throw 100% again and I haven't been able to do that in 5 years. So once I get the surgery done and go through PT for 6-12+ months I will be back here and will be studying the hell out of using my hips and the rest of my body to prevent this from ever happening again. If you guys want updates I will have the surgery done at the end of September this year (2022). Thank you again, DGBT for some great footage as well as advice. You have earned a lifelong subscriber who absolutely needed to see this.

[@andrewdorsettproductions]

UPDATE: Surgery was 9/28/22 and I had my cast removed yesterday! Pain was below 1/10 whole time thankfully. I currently have about 40 degrees of movement in my right arm currently. Not allowed to reach back at all. If I can't see my hand in front of me, can't do it. I'm able to lift most things, cutting/trimming meat/veggies isn't a problem anymore. ROM is just awful right now. I have PT starting today for the next 6 weeks, twice a week. Wish me luck guys! Also, I do have a few photos of the surgery thanks to the awesome team that did the surgery if anyone really wants to see...

[@michaelmatejka1068]

Hope you get better soon and get on the disc golf course. Glad surgery went well

[@andrewdorsettproductions]

UPDATE #2: Just over 3 months since my surgery and I have almost 100% extension and flexion in my arm. Weight training has started and I'm now throwing a soccer ball at a wall which started this week! Super stoked to throw more and finally tossing a disc next year.

[@AtohV]

@@andrewdorsettproductions THANK YOU so much for the updates on your surgery! I am a 21 year old disc golfer who is a forehand only player due to a torn labrum in my throwing shoulder from a backhand shot. Within the last year or so of playing I have started to get a shooting pain up the pinky side of my forearm after rounds. After watching this video and hearing about your experience I am worried I'm too late to adjust and may have done too much damage. I don't know if its the thought of the torn labrum or not but I definitely lead my forehands with my elbow without thinking about it. I always joke with my friends about needing Tommy John surgery.

[@andrewdorsettproductions]

@@AtohV highly recommend you check out your primary care provider soon and get an X-ray if possible. If it’s not a range of motion issue and just a ulnar nerve reaction like you are making it sound like, you’ll be fine without surgery! But your Dr will know way more about that. I highly recommend doing light fieldwork to replicate correct form to where it doesn’t hurt to throw at all when forehanding and once you get that hip and shoulder involved it will be a nice upward climb to full speed drivers! I wish you luck! I’m sorry to hear about your arm and not being able to backhand. I’ll be definitely involving backhands 90% the first few months I start back up with throwing.

[@Something_offensive_]

Thank you for sharing your advanced understanding of that shot, it's new territory for youtube content. I think we all need/want SPECIFIC drills, band exercises, and warm up techniques that Ryan would suggest to help with strengthening the muscles used for the shot, as well as how to warm them up to prevent injury. Thank you guys for everything you're doing!!

[@EJtruck]

Thanks for the great video. My big takeaway is to *start* throwing at the 200' mark, that will drastically reduce strain on my forehand or backhand. I can definitely see myself consistently throwing in the 550' to 600' range!

[@hairlessmonkey2240]

No kidding.. why’d they waste so much time on the other crap

[@torymblue2000]

At 8:31, how is that now leading with your elbow? Also earlier talking basically like serving the pizza and stockly, has come out recently about not serving the pizza.

[@NickCarroll]

Good point. I think the "serving the pizza" metaphor is unintentionally used in a misleading way in this video because it typically means the wrist angle relative to the arm swing (throwing a ball is more a slapping motion where serving a pizze is more chopping motion). But you can still see Lauber's wrist during the end of the swing, through to the release of the disc, the wrist and hand is in the "throwing the ball" orientation. Also Lauber's stacked grip is essentially what Stokely teaches.

[@jedediahgordon4064]

Stockly has also openly admitted to not doing the tips he suggests, while advertising his clinic..... and yes, they are, in fact, leading with the elbow

[@NickCarroll]

@@jedediahgordon4064 Great points. 🙂

[@TheBatCave09]

Ryan, THANK YOU!!!!!! That grip alone added 50ft to my throw like immediately! Also I am absolutely in love with BRP. Lastly is that RayJ’s camper in the background? That’s my boy. Much love you guys! Subscribed fo life!!!

[@hotmustardseed]

Dear diary, today I learned even more about things I can’t do.

[@FitznerDiscGolf]

I found it very difficult to see the hips to shoulder separation or the elbow following instead of leading in those slow-mos.

[@dennisrogers4665]

Totally agree. I think it’s valuable instruction, but with all the fluid and fast-action body motion going on, even the slow-mo seems to show the elbow at least getting slightly ahead of the hand. Sigh…. I don’t know what to do.

[@isaiahbalter4883]

@@dennisrogers4665elbow ahead of the hand is fine. Just like a fishing rod the handle is ahead of the rod and line (or whip or machete or any other tool you swing). It’s more about making sure the hips stay ahead of the elbow. But think more keeping the leading shoulder down as you start your acceleration. Your front foot should land, feel friction preventing your foot from sliding forward (bracing), begin generating force forward toward your target line (the hips rotate here. Not forced rotation though, think of bowling where you let the weight of the ball swing forward as you stop so you don’t go down the lane with it. The hips rotate and clear but you’re not intentionally spinning or rotating them. Just be careful with the bowling analogy because you don’t want the back foot coming behind the front. So perhaps sweeping the floor or vacuuming is a better analogy. Anyhow the hips rotating/clearing essentially creates lag in the shoulders (as long as they were a little more rotated back than the hips. The shoulders then rotate and drive toward the target line. Essentially opening up but not upward toward the sky, more through toward your target line. Keep the lead shoulder low as if you had to throw the disc 6 inches above the ground. Start slow, soft throws, like throwing cornhole bags or horse shoes level of effort. I didn’t touch on the wrist a lot but you can see them load the wrist. Pretend to throw the disc behind you just over your shoulder with some force, disc is vertical (roller angle). This is a loaded position. Slight stretch of the forearm and wrist bent. Before the laundry list above (sorry for the length) get your wrist into a loaded position with the bicep tricep relaxed hanging beneath the shoulder socket but tilting the hip enough so you have space between your elbow and hip. Hope that helps, if not, sorry to waste your time.

[@dennisrogers4665]

@@isaiahbalter4883 This was a rather incredibly detailed response Isaiah. Thanks for taking the time. I’d been out of disc golf for about 20 years. Back then, I had a very reliable forehand that could easily drive 250+ feet with discs such as a new, max weight Innova Banshee. Starting up playing again this year, I was shocked to witness the complete disappearance of my forehand skills. Like yikes!! I have started improving though, and doing so by intentionally not thinking about any technique. I’ve always loved playing catch, whether with big ol’ Wham-O frisbees or with a baseball. When throwing a baseball sidearm, I don’t have to think about it at all. It feels as natural as breathing. So I decided to start going through the same motion and to visualize throwing a baseball instead of a disc, just with a modified grip obviously. And wow, I made huge progress in a handful of throws. I’m not back to where I was, but at age 54, if I can get back to snapping forehands 200+ feet, I’ll be thrilled. Anyway, thanks again for taking the time.

[@jpod16]

As a forehand dominant player I appreciate the safety tips for the elbow!

[@mikeydamonster]

These videos are awesome, but I gotta say I'm not seeing the hips/shoulder separation that Ryan keeps mentioning. Pause around 8:31, for example, Ryan's elbow is way out in front of everything else and his hand is pointed almost directly behind him. It looks like that position is the exact type of thing that Ryan said to avoid. I watched the slow-mo of Jake's throw several times too and, if anything, it looks like his hips are almost in line with his shoulder the whole time and he also appears to get into a position where the elbow is leading. I think it would be incredibly helpful if Ryan could draw over a video of him doing a forehand to show where this separation of hips and shoulders takes place, including when the separation begins and ends.

[@pjsb1]

Look at 8:30 right before then and see how his shoulders are still turned 90 degrees to the target and his right hip is turned forward toward the target. That's the separation, and that is what will sling shot the shoulders forward.

[@Sophia-bo3vd]

Are you blind? Huge separation… wtf

[@mikeydamonster]

@@Sophia-bo3vd I don't think I am... and obv other people are having trouble seeing it too. I'm talking about comparing his right hip to his right shoulder. Watched it several times. Maybe there is a split second where his hip appears to be in front of his shoulder but not seeing any huge separation.

[@Sophia-bo3vd]

@@mikeydamonster when he plants his lead foot his hips are open to the target and the disc is still all the way back. Complete hips to shoulder separation. Think of the whole pelvis, not just the socket on the right side of the hip.

[@coltenhinton1337]

Can you elaborate on not leading with elbow cause in the slow form check from side view the elbow is leading in my understanding of what was explained

[@greghatch122]

Love seeing tips from guys who set distance records. Legit advice.

[@michaelcushman]

I found Ryan's position at 8:21 illuminating. His back and both arms are all in the same plane. It as if someone said, "stick um up". He is in that position, but bent forward at the hips. New to me. I just spent a few minutes duplicating this and throwing into the net, awesome feeling, more power, less elbow and shoulder strain. As for elbow in front or not...the elbow "moves in front of the hand" to create the whip effect in the arm. This is caused by a lag in the hand that let's the weight of the disc or the ball "pull back" the hand as the elbow moves forward with the shoulder rotation. Always true, throwing a disc or a ball. I think a more accurate recommendation is to say, the hand should be in front of the elbow at the start of the actual throwing motion. Elbow first at the start is what rips muscles and tendons. Always have the hand leading the elbow before engaging the hips. I hope that explanation helps.

[@Nickeeefy]

I respectfully completly disagree that hand infront of elbow before drive it gives less pain. For me its the opposite, since i started to cock the elbow infront of the my arm and shoulder right from the start of my upper body turn and downswing i finally can throw without pain. Late elbow cock is knowned to cause pain, but it probably has to do with correct form and how hard you throw.

[@DrkNightBeast]

Amazing this helped me connect so many dots

[@DiscGolfBroTour]

Happy we could help!

[@16gords]

Ryan's change of position at 4:33 was essential for getting his seemingly great piece of advice. Gotta go try it out

[@davidbrooks1118]

I paused video at 7:11 and 8:31 and to me it looks very much like their elbows are in front??? Ryan harped on not letting your elbow beat your hips...which at 8:31 is exactly what I see, what am I missing?

[@DiscGolfBroTour]

Great question. I think the main thing you're missing is how Ryan said "how you want to think about the release." It's important how you "think" about the throw, meaning your intentionality. When it's the intention to let your elbow beat your body, you end up with a greater chance of injury because you'll end up overdoing that bending motion. Ryan and Jake do not overdo it because they have the intention of doing things a certain way, not to mention they have a ton more experience than most. Thanks for the question and for watching!

[@davidbrooks1118]

Oh I get it kinda like how when you’re sick and there’s always that person that sends you thoughts and prayers - I need to send my elbow thoughts and prayers before each throw! 😂

[@dylanl2258]

Watching those two throw a round and hearing them share their experience with each other would be really cool, and probably fun. Probably harder video work though. Lots of lighting changes, etc.

[@ZMan3k]

Please keep the content with Ryan coming! Are there any drills Ryan does or recommends that can help us keep the proper form?

[@apo911]

would you say that an anhyzer release is better than hyzer for max distance for power throws like these? or perhaps a flat release?

[@KnKPanda]

Love to see the breakdown from Ryan Sheldon 🔥 next will be an in the bag? Hehe Let’s bring on JC Kester 💪🏻

[@mr.mathmanfrisbee1560]

Sweet! Well done! Definitely putting this into my growing form! Before I do, what stretches help in getting warmed up for power shots like this? I would like to throw far but I don't want to hurt my self by throwing with cold muscles. Any tips?

[@holdinitdowninptown]

I use the same stretching routines as MLB players and it seems to help.

[@jordanmanuel9160]

Dude thank you guys so much makes a lot more sense

[@catdaddyfatstacks7665]

All that talk about the elbow not leading way ahead, and then in Ryan’s slow motion shot you can EXACTLY that! It’s how all the big distance forehand guys throw lol

[@dlewisfl]

Don't think he is consciously leading with the elbow or pulling the disc with the ellbow .. looks more like a natural position from his body rotation and "lagging" the disc behind him. Major flexibility.

[@dizzydabz6905]

Thank you!

[@jeffevans1101]

Killer stuff as always!

[@Tsxtasy1]

Heard some Lakey Inspired while Ryan was throwing 👌🏽

[@Rob-in-hood]

Ryan is the man!

[@discgolfteacher]

These two videos have me rethinking everything Forehand. Usually the teacher, now I am the learner! Awesome stuff, y'all 👍

[@Snipes_Disc_Golf]

No way I found you in another comment section! That's cool. I really want to get good at forehand but I am doing something wrong my arm is starting to hurt so I need to fix my form

[@bigjim4x]

It's funny to me how much mixed information there is out there. They are saying serve the pizza and Scott Stokely just did two videos saying don't serve the pizza.

[@bustatron]

He talks a lot about arm hip separation but it's all just weight transfer. Figure out the most efficient way for your body to turn back leg power into the slingshot you're good.

[@Lekamaukka]

Fun fact: Armwrestling strengthens elbow pretty well, if done correctly (not that arm snap stuff). But i have found out, elbow needs lot of recovery time after armwrestling training. 😅

[@austinhodroff9946]

Hey I’ve been throwing forehands 500+ I would appreciate if you have any ideas on what I should do next? Still trying to park that hole 4 Ryan then I’m challenging you haha I would love to see you throw at Oak wood park in cottage grove Minnesota it’s a very technical course that I would tell anyone to challenge the course

[@Robotron2084Guide]

Really enjoy these breakdowns. Do you by chance know John Madden/Brent Porciau from YouGoProBaseball/TopVelocity. Doing a disc golf mashup that went along with their vids such as “The High Velocity Arm Action” would be a disc golf form dream vid. After getting golfer's elbow from improperly learning from Big Jerm and Eagle vids from a couple years ago, I'm still highly cautious of attempting what you are showing. It would also be cool if you could talk through this with Seth at DiscGolfStrong. That'd be another dream vid.

[@bombusaffinis]

Thank you for these videos! If I could suggest something - lots of backhand videos have "indicators of good form" in the video (e.g. power pocket, the inverted Y shape, plant foot timed with reach back, etc) that are freeze framed or some such. What would those look like for a forehand? What is the forehand's equivalent of a "power pocket"? What could one look for if they filmed themselves?

[@DiscGolfBroTour]

Ryan Sheldon Explains Advanced Forehand Distance kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZ_Id2qPm6qkpNU

[@erikb.3648]

What ever you do.... do NOT serve the pizza! Use that wrist and finger flick!

[@JDubDiscGolf]

At 8:31 looks a lot like Ryan’s elbow is leading

[@dlewisfl]

Not consciously, it's a product of his flexibility. He sets the brace with his left foot, fires his hips, then you can see his shoulders go next while the disc is still lagging behind, causing that bend in the elbow. You have to be incredibly flexible to get in the position he is in, most people can't do it.

[@DiscraftJunkies]

Why do you say Team to introduce people with sponsorships; when Disc Golf isn’t a team sport? If it’s everyone Vs. everyone, how is a sponsor a team? Does your score at the end of the day effect the other players on the same team?

[@Beingracie]

Ryans is a massive man. Hi Ryan o/

[@IAmJSquared]

I don't get it when everyone says no elbow first. Unless they mean before the hip activation. I can pause a moment in both of their follow throughs at a point where their elbow is ahead of the hand however it is inline with the knee and after their hips have rotated forward. The initiation of the forehand has a hand forward then in the moment of reach back the elbow pronates forward creating lag and a snap with the hand shortly after. I don't think its possible to have a power forehand without having the flexibility to create that lag which requires a momentary elbow leading snap. ** I'm not being critical of these guys just honestly confused about the no elbow first thing **

[@cdpcube]

I think its more a matter of thinking about the elbow leading or not. If you are focusing on shoving your elbow forward, it can potentially put your elbow in a vulnerable position during a very violent rotation, before it is ready to be. If you focus more on the weight transfer/ shoulder hip separation/ release point, it allows your body to naturally "torque up" and places you elbow in that compromising position but with the ideal timings to limit injury but increase power/spin. Your body kinda has an instinct to keep its limbs out of harms way. Its similar to how pitchers can throw a 100 ish pitches a game at ~95mph without injury. If you watch a slowmo of any pitcher, youll see just how absurdly far back the ball is getting pulled behind the elbow. But id be willing to bet the thoughts going through their heads are weight shift-> release point. their body does the rest. I do have a pitching background and still remember the surprise i had the first time i got slowmo filmed during a lesson. I had no idea my elbow bent like that when i threw. It was definetly a very interesting " feel vs real" moment. Sorry for the long ramblings. I may have gotten carried away....

[@reesemanikowski9182]

4:10 ish I think is where he claifies the point. Not the elbow leading the hand/disc but avoiding getting it front of the hips or shoulders. Or at least that was what I got

[@IAmJSquared]

@@cdpcube thanks for the reply! Yeah i think what you explained about the elbow is in line with what i was seeking confirmation on. Its okay for the elbow to lead once your hips and feet have rotated forward because its a more natural motion for your body than if you went elbow first without the hip activation. Actually your ramblings(your word not mine haha) helped me connect the dots in my brain on something i needed to figure out haha. Specifically about you mentioning weight transfer first. For myself i think that's what i struggle with the most because I am finding a limit to my distance,. For some reason you mentioning pitchers made me realize my weight transfer isn't the same when i throw a disc side arm than if i throw a baseball pitch. I know Ryan has talked about this before but for some reason it didn't give me that eureka moment that your comment just gave me haha. I think i allow too much weight to be diverted to my arm and disc when you should be directional from hips to plant foot and chest. Thanks for the discussion! haha

[@brian6speed]

It is no different than throwing a punch or doing any athletic movement. You need to time the arm with the hips. You can delay the arm to create a whipping motion.

[@jawaring4367]

ok but how do I throw power forehands without getting terrible tennis elbow

[@DiscGolfBroTour]

If you watch Part 1. Ryan goes into more detail about how to stay safe while throwing far. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZ_Id2qPm6qkpNU

[@JustinKrump]

I am now throwing a solid 150 feet with my forehand. 🤜

[@unicorn_catcher]

You still haven't addressed what to do at the hit. Do you grip the disc throughout and let it rip out, or open your grip tension and release it?

[@brian6speed]

this should be common sense. do you need him to explain when to breath as well or maybe when to blink?

[@unicorn_catcher]

@@brian6speed Not surprisingly, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Different people throw backhands and forehands different ways. Different coaches coach different methods. Dan Beato from back in the day, Overthrow disc golf currently, say that you let the disc rip out. Keep your low knowledge comments to yourself until you know what you don’t know, genius.

[@unicorn_catcher]

@@brian6speed also, breath control during the throw would be helpful if it was addressed. FYI, I throw forehands 425’ laser straight, and it rips out. Unless I need less spin, then I let leave my hand gently. I asked the question for geniuses like you, not for me.

[@xUFOdg]

8:24

[@chrissnyder9229]

Ohhh

[@dlewisfl]

"Dont' serve the pizza" - Scott Stokely

[@DiscraftJunkies]

Sure, take notes from someone who paints their fingernails.😂😂😂