S01E10 Part 2 Hawker Typhoon Propeller

Continuing from episode 10 part one, I show the process of removing crash recovered propeller blade roots and blade bushings from a Typhoon propeller spider that sat in salt water for over six decades!
typhoonlegacy....
For all of the extra details, shop updates and forums (or just to see our episodes early and commercial free), please consider supporting the project by subscribing to our paid channel, every penny go's directly into the airworthy rebuild of Hawker Typhoon JP843!
Hawker Typhoon JP843 is a British designed aircraft of the Second World War, originally intended as a fighter / interceptor, but ultimately ending up excelling as a ground attack aircraft. The Typhoon was the Royal Air Force's ( RAF ) first 400mph fighter, and although it had troubled development in its early years (partially due to the massive Napier Sabre sleeve valve engine that had been pushed into service), it came to be one of the premier ground attack aircraft of the war, scourge of the Wehrmacht and the Luftwaffe alike; excelling through D-Day, the Normandy campaign, and the Allied advance through Europe and VE Day.
While there were many nationalities of pilots and crew involved in Typhoon operations, the primary operators of the Hawker Typhoon were:
Royal Air Force ( RAF )
Royal Canadian Air Force ( RCAF )
Royal New Zealand Air Force ( RNZAF )
Royal Australian Air Force ( RAAF )
Hawker Typhoon JP843 served with 197 Squadron RAF, 198 Squadron RAF, and 609 Squadron RAF between September of 1943 and July of 1944. She was lost, along with her pilot, Peter March Price, RNZAF on the 27th of July 1944 in the battlefields of France.
The development of the Typhoon led to the Hawker Tempest V, which outperformed the Typhoon. Due to this, and the end of World War II, the Hawker Typhoon was quickly scrapped and replaced, with only one example of over 3300 surviving. This example, Hawker Typhoon MN235, only survived by chance after being sent to the United States Air Force ( USAF ) for evaluation during the war. With approximately 9 hours of flight time, the USAF crated the Typhoon and stored the aircraft with many others. Eventually becoming an asset of the Smithsonian, the Typhoon was traded back to the UK's RAF Museum Hendon in 1968 for a Hawker Hurricane.
With no airworthy Hawker Typhoons or Hawker Tempest V's airworthy, we are committed to returning JP843 to the skies and preserving the legacy of all who took part in the development and operation of the amazing aircraft.
To watch our videos before they are available on KZbin, and to see them advertisement free, please consider subscribing to our video channel; every penny earned will be used to advance the rebuild of Hawker Typhoon JP843!
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~Ian

[@johncunningham4820]

Your Patience and Dedication to restoring , what is essentially , a Genuine Rare Antiquity , is remarkable and commendable . From what I just watched , you people must Order your Tool Bits by the Pallet . 😂. Obviously Costs WOULD matter , but getting the Restoration done Correctly is Far MORE important . All care taken but Costs , are what they are .

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

Thank you very much John; in fact, I used to run an aircraft tooling company and have some leftovers! There should be plenty to get through the build for most drills. Costs are certainly a massive factor, and one that has been a primary consideration in how the entire project operates. Great to have you following along with us! ~Ian

[@Flyingcircustailwheel]

This channel is gold!

[@billbright1755]

Hooking all the power up to the surrounding air. Proper propeller protocol. The beauty of the beast. Go get ‘em 🐅 Tiger.

[@David-yo5ws]

Thank you Ian for showing us the heavy involvement in time and energy to remove a tapered sleeve. Almost a story on it's own "The Sleeve That Wouldn't Budge!" Of course you had to do that with the other one too. So all kudos to your step by step progress, patience and research, into the Hawker Typhoon propeller mechanism.

[@nzsaltflatsracer8054]

It was a nice surprise when I got to the end of the video. I'm a pilot & live in Idaho now.

[@whotknots]

As a young man in the 1970's I was a general aviation pilot flying out of Parafield which continues to be a satellite airfield near Adelaide South Australia to this day. At that time I became acquainted with two individuals who were restoring very different and interesting veteran world war two aircraft. One person was restoring an Avro Anson and I was able to source a pair of cast aluminium rims with balloon tyres still attached and a pair of engines for him. The rims and tyres were donated by a friend who had trained in Canada under the Empire Air Scheme and they had an interesting history. The other individual was restoring a spitfire to display condition and I used to occasionally drop by the small shed where he was working to check on progress and help in small ways with simple tasks like filing rivets etc. The spitfire was comprised of salvaged and in the case of the wings spliced, components from the Pacific region and if memory still serves the propeller had been retrieved from a swamp in Northern Australia. The owner showed me some numerals which he had found peened on a bearing race in the propeller hub and explained that he had contacted authorities in Britain who were able to trace the numeric sequence to someone involved in the assembly of that propeller and thus obtained a full history for it! Warbird restoration is a deeply fascinating activity.

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

It's amazing how much a few number can tell us; to be able to find an individual who worked on a part 75 yeas ago would be thrilling! ~Ian

[@whotknots]

Indeed, and you also meet the most interesting people by chance at times. On one occasion someone reversed into our 4wd in the parking lot of a supermarket at an outback town where I was posted. He turned out to be an old guy who had worked as a trainee instrument fitter on a Spitfire production line in England during the war. He invited us to his home and showed me his collection of photographs from that era including brand new Spitfires lined up at the works awaiting scrapping at war's end. He related how he had been tasked with removing any instruments that could be installed in the newly emerging jets from brand new Spitfires in which he had previously installed them!

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

@@whotknots Wow, we need to find the guy charges with hiding Sabres!

[@whotknots]

@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd I will contact a mate who still lives in the town in question. He might be able to find out if old Ken is still ticking. If he is, he just might know something having been involved in the industry at the time as it were. I also recall an edition of Warbirds International Magazine which featured an article on somebody who had discovered and purchased the remains of some Tempests from India, including a couple of rather dilapidated Sabre engines. www.challengeweb.com/warbirds-international.html

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

@@whotknots That would be great, thank you! The Tempests from India were all MK II fitted with the Centaurus unfortunately, although, you never know how far these types of things travel! ~Ian

[@18robsmith]

The application of the correct size hammer to assist in the dismantling of delicate parts ;-)

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

I was up to a 3lb hammer with these parts! ~Ian

[@18robsmith]

@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd OMG - an airframe tech has a 3lb hammer

[@balsumfractus]

If I still lived in the Comox Valley, I would certainly volunteer to help out.. ( too much retirement time on my hands....😁)

[@suereed]

Man you've got some patience.

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

Sometimes lol. ~Ian

[@billbrisson]

Keep up the great work and the great videos! Man you work fast...the clock on the wall over the door barely moved :)

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

Awesome, the clock is a bit of a joke in the shop; You're the first to mention it! ~Ian

[@carbidegrd1]

That tapered bushing would be a bitch to make, even on a CNC lathe.

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

It's a nice piece of kit for sure. ~Ian

[@carbidegrd1]

@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd I wonder if it was formed hot in a die set in a similar fashion to magnesium parts. To machine that from a blank in the war just wouldn't happen.

[@lesterbeedell9725]

I have one of those hubs! All the blades were fine apart from the one which was sticking into the sea floor which had completely corroded off, the blades still had their yellow tips

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

Have you pulled your hub apart by chance? We are always looking for spiders for trade. ~Ian

[@lesterbeedell9725]

@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd yes I have, a friend was a diver and fishermen were complaining about their nets snagging on the blades, I’ve got all the fibre cones and the lovely bronze nut which held the propeller on I also had 2 Merlin xx’s which came from a Beaufighter which crashed near Ford in Sussex, divorce doesn’t do you any favours because many of the parts I had went! A friend, Laurie Fletcher, worked at Royce’s all through the war and he scratch built 1/5 scale engines, making all the patterns and doing the castings in his spare room..... can’t think why he was divorced? The Typhoon was an amazing aeroplane, a salvo of rockets was the equivalent of a broadside from a 6” cruiser, I have a copy of Janes All the World’s Aircraft 45/46 edition and there’s a cartoon of a couple of German tank crew quaking in their boots, meet Shorty, he flies a rocket Typhoon!

[@mylesdw]

@@lesterbeedell9725 Wow Lester you know some interesting stuff. I'd love to see the 1/5 scale engines. I have an old prop blade that I was given by a chap I worked for long ago. I think it is off one of the twin engined WW2 bombers. Interesting thing is that it had stood in a a mess or canteen at some time and is covered in signatures including "Winston Churchill" and "Doug Bader". Trouble is, as the years go by the pencil signatures have become harder and harder to read. Any ideas about cleaning it up without destroying pencil on black paint?

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

@@lesterbeedell9725 Wow, what type of condition is the spider in? ~Ian

[@tonyrobinson5777]

very interesting thank you

[@toboldlygosmodelworks1973]

The joy of chain drilling, but the aluminium's held up pretty considering it's next to steel and been in sea water for a number of years. Obviously a better quality aluminium, than Jaguar used on my XJ8's original set rear bumper bracket adjusters lol!

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

Lol, I suspect the bronze blade bushings really helped prevent more internal corrosion. ~Ian

[@stevenhoman2253]

Would it not be easier and more stable to use a drill press in a well kitted out workshop for this process?

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

Not at all, a drill press would be great for drilling at 90 degrees, however you will notice that a lot of this was at varying angles. The milling machine was an option as well, and a good one; but creating a stable enough system of securing everything would take close to the same amount of work just getting the job done. ~Ian

[@b-17wingman37]

Was thinking maybe you could do video on the MOMENTUM FILTER . I heard it was a field retrofit after D -DAY.

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

I may be able to speak about it a bit, but without examples here there wouldn't be too much context. Maybe best done later in the project. ~Ian

[@MudMantheODD]

As a matter interest, what do you do with all the "Scrap" metals from the restoration Work? I was fortunate to be able to purchase from the Royal British Legion a Poppy Pin that was made from "Duralumin" from one of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight Supermarine Spitfires cast from one of the panels that was replaced. As a fund raising exercise, I feel that if you were able to save some of the metals and, then commission a local company to produce items made from Aircraft it could generate some very valuable funding for the Restoration Project.

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

There will be very little scrap from this project, all possible components used as patterns are being saved with the idea to potentially build up a static project (complete or otherwise) from original parts. The idea is fantastic though, and I will look to see if we are able to apply it to some aspect of the project; perhaps drilled rivets etc. ~Ian

[@jamesdeath3477]

Just vinegar is excellent for de-rusting steel.

[@johndavey72]

James . If only l'd known this 10 years ago before l started restoring my Triumph TR6 tub ! 😂😂😂😂

[@terrygreen4338]

Another great video amazing all the work in the making of a propeller Will you do a video on the engine sometime i see see the sabra behind you Cheers Ian keep up the good work 👍✈️

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

Thank you Terry, I think we will need to do a Sabre video soon, many are chomping at the bit! ~Ian

[@davidlawrencebanks4610]

Sabre

[@beachcomber2008]

That was real tough. Boil that steel in washing soda, or even caustic soda solution. It will pick it clean of rust, oil, sand, paint, and any bronze or light metal. Neutralise afterward, of course.

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

Interesting, I've not seen that done. I'll look into it. ~Ian

[@LCMNUNES1962]

👍👍👍 🇧🇷

[@wackowacko8931]

If you want to try to free up the pistons in your Sabre engine, this method may work (but only the ones where the sleeve valves are closed): Rotate the engine so that one side of the cylinders are pointing up. Fill the cylinders with closed valves up to the top with penetrating oil. Take a spark plug and knock out the center. Weld a grease gun fitting in place of the porcelain. Get a grease gun with a gauge on it, and pump the cylinders up gradually to no more than about 400 psi. This will force penetrating oil past the pistons and rings- but probably not right away. This method may take months (checking the pressure every day), but the cylinders will eventually come free. If the pressure drops precipitously, the piston has either come free or you have blown the head gasket. Head gaskets will blow EASILY with this method, which is why you have to be careful and limit the amount of pressure you put on it.

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

Awesome tip, unfortunately the engine we currently have in our shop is too far gone for that. I will remember this one for the next engine though. ~Ian

[@geoffmatthews6283]

I've used molasses before. A water/molasses mix somewhere between 15:1 & 20:1 works well. So long as you only have the same ferrous alloy in the tub it isn't fussy about time. If it hasn't done enough go again. Chemically it is a chelating process.

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

It seems to be a nice economical way of completing the task, she's in a tub now with $20 worth of molasses and water. I'll see what happens! ~Ian

[@sidekickbob7227]

@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd as I understand it, it is the small amount of phosphoric acid in the molasses that is working on the rust. I have also found it present in "tile joint cleaners" (higher %). You can also use citric acid, or simply vinegar. As with all acid the process speeds up with higher temperatures. I suspect the good old Coca Cola also used phosphoric acid in the recipe, in the old days. It doesn't seem to work against rust anymore.

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

@@sidekickbob7227 Great information, thank you! ~Ian

[@meduffer]

Be forewarned. The molasses rust removal worked ok for me (they sell it in bulk at the farm co-ops) but the process stinks somethin' awful!

[@geoffmatthews6283]

@@meduffer Yep, it left the paint shop at work smelling like there was a 5 ton blue cheese in the corner.

[@julianossowski1435]

How was the spider manufactured? single forged block and then machined? its a complex shape

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

My understanding is that the spiders were forged, I stand to be corrected though. Our efforts will be to find a suitable, certifiable spider vs new build though. ~Ian

[@sssxxxttt]

Wouldn't a hack saw or angle grinder have been an alternative? But now the job is done :) I've also seen aluminum being dissolved with NaOH without affecting the steel

[@sssxxxttt]

(No disrespect for Your skill and craftmanship which I come here to admire. Just a comment)

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

Certainly would, it's a huge chunk of aluminum to cut through that way though, I I am personally more comfortable with the depth control of this technique. Many ways to do different tasks, and we all need to go with what works for us. ~Ian

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

Thank you Dave! ~Ian

[@sweetpeaz61]

try Evaporust for the spider...ive been well impressed how well that stuff works on steel parts

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

Will look into that one, thank you! ~Ian

[@jamesmaddigan8132]

@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd Check out Hand Tool rescue on KZbin, he uses it all the time.

[@SkylarkCamperAdventures]

Found citric acid is good at cleaning rusty parts, was a bit suspicious of it at first but really surprised how well it did.

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

Great info, thank you! ~Ian

[@muddundee]

Citric acid is great for derusting steel parts & tools, cupful of acid powder in a bucket of warm water & leave overnight. leaves a black residue that rubs off with a scotchbrite easily.

[@simonspitfire16]

I just saw a video on the John Smith collection in NZ and I noticed that they had Hercules engines there and if they have any 3 bladed spider and or hubs for you and Karl?

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

Thank you for the lead, I'll check it out! -Ian

[@nickfuller2419]

Citric acid solution works really well and is cheap, just leave it to soak

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

As a penetrating fluid? ~Ian

[@gregtaylor6146]

I have tried most proprietary 'agents' for cleaning rust from steel and (disregarding the cost though it happens to be the cheapest) winner is ....... plain old VINEGAR.

[@johndavey72]

Ian , and l thought l was patient ! This assembly is obviously beyond repair so is there a motive ? It's not boring , honestly ! Although you were boring ! 😂😂😂 ( joke , get it ? boring ! ...never mind ! ) l think this is what happens when you spend too much time in the house ! Thanks , always enjoyable .

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

I pulled this one apart as a potential trade item, and to verify the spider dimensions for caparison purposes. "The more we know". ~Ian

[@graemebrumfitt6668]

TFS Ian. G :)

[@Skinflaps_Meatslapper]

He put a side load on the drill REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[@chrispollard6568]

Slitting saw in a mill.

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

That would work with a horizontal mill. Up to the inside corner anyway; a smaller end mill would work too. ~Ian

[@chrispollard6568]

@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd You can use a vertical mill too! Just need an arbor to mount it.

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

@@chrispollard6568 Drat! You got me! ~Ian

[@jonathanhodge4857]

Focus is out.

[@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd]

Or is it splatter on the camera? ~Ian