SA80 History: XL60 Series in 4.85mm

[@jameskachman3692]

"a grand total of none of whom had ever fired a rifle before" Oh my God everything makes sense now.

[@HaqqAttak]

This is true with almost everything made by the British. Many such cases.

[@White_Recluse]

+HaqqAttak It's built by people that have no idea what they're doing?

[@HaqqAttak]

And autistic toymakers who have model trains in their basements.

[@Hourai]

And yet their first designs were apparently better than what they designed after having accrued firearms design experience.

[@HaqqAttak]

They had a history of that sort of thing. The Cromwell tank being one of the most egregious.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

You know it's serious when Ian busts out the Mickey Mouse gloves.

[@MrShooter16]

Fuzzy Dunlop Nah, when you see CrazyRussianHacker putting on his safety glasses, you know shit is getting real.

[@mattjohnson7775]

lol fuck yeah word

[@thomasweir2834]

He’s just got back from a rave. He’s off his nut on gurners.

[@mattjohnson7775]

Yes

[@HerbiieIsBest]

It's a requirement from ARES - Ian's said in Q&As that he doesn't see the point but hey it's the rules and their guns

[@the_real_Kurt_Yarish]

"Lever fire-control lever" - Ian, of Forgotten Weapons That Are Forgotten.

[@clemdelaclem]

as opposed to button fire-control lever buttons

[@Guillo78]

@@danialyousaf6456 quite possibly

[@LUR1FAX]

@@clemdelaclem And ATM machines that require PIN numbers.

[@drmaudio]

I don't think it is necessarily bad to have non-firearm engineers driving the ideas. This is a good way to get fresh perspective and innovation. You should, however, have the experienced firearm engineer playing devils advocate, preventing known mistakes, and offering solutions. It occurs to me that this is more or less how Hudson is doing it.

[@DustinKing77]

Gun Sense (drmaudio) the designer of the MG42 had no experience in designing firearms before, and look at what he created!

[@farmerboy916]

Gun Sense (drmaudio) Yeah, but it sounds like these guys didn't even have the first clue about what is desirable in a firearm. It'd have only done good if they'd gotten together and had a range day.

[@drmaudio]

farmerboy916 no doubt.

[@Sheridan2LT]

Owen rifle was created by a kid in a garage, using pipes and shit. Many guns we think brilliant came about, from non-firearms designers!

[@tranquile8046]

@@Sheridan2LT The base design was made a kid in a garage. A few men proceeded to fix the small (I think) issues and iterate on the design. The Owen gun as we know it was designed over several years by, among other people, a metallurgist.

[@fusilier9276]

I remember lying prone firing the SA80 as a recruit and getting a running kick from an nco for forward assisting the bolt...before it became a drill on the weapon.

[@jwadaow]

Are you implying the NCO was a twat?

[@limpetarch98k]

Very unprofessional NCO, in typical british fashion.

[@dylanwight5764]

You were reprimanded for not following procedure on the range? Good! Even if your NCO was a twat, the golden rules is that if everybody's wrong then everybody's right. You follow the approved training procedure (even if it seems silly, and is silly) because it creates a predictable environment that is easy to diagnose if incidents happen. Doubly so during live fire training.

[@fusilier9276]

@@dylanwight5764 nah the NCO was a wanker, he tried it on when everybody was asleep and got his arm broke, just because he had stripes doesn’t make him God, wasn’t a range either it was an exercise firing blanks

[@fusilier9276]

@@TheVirtuoso883 yes he was, he got no respect from any of my platoon, other platoons would walk on glass barefooted for their nco, not mine

[@Paul-ie1xp]

Not one of the 27 man design team, had ever fired a rifle before. I was just wondering how that would look written down.

[@mysss29]

The similarity is that they both built on the work of others in their field. The more important difference is that the SA-80 team _could very well have been composed of experts in the field, but intentionally--and negligently--was not_.

[@jackandersen1262]

You also forgot that the rifle was designed by a committee, and none of the original design team (save for the project leader) remained throughout development.

[@jwadaow]

He said twenty six man design team.

[@aker1993]

@@levistrauss5378 BS they the Wright brothers trial and error and they themself test their revisions

[@jackandersen1262]

Levi Strauss this rifle worked. However, do you consider the Wright flyer to be the best plane of all time? No. In fact the plane at best flew about 830 ft. What you’re asking these guys to do is design a modern fighter jet with only experience in general engineering.

[@kolinmartz]

I’ve used this rifle before when I was in service. I remember it being a reliable and handy companion when I was storming rebirth island.

[@thesmokey2597]

As a fellow nerd, i see you

[@kolinmartz]

@@thesmokey2597 yep. No leaks.

[@whitehorsemilitia]

Anyone in the know, knows

[@scootergrant8683]

I believe that's the EM2. I don't think the XL60 was added to CoD.

[@Snougaloogie]

​@@scootergrant8683the Enfield in Black Ops 1 was one of these

[@coreyg7575]

I wonder if kids looking for happy panda shapes, get forgotten weapons in their recommended videos from time to time XD

[@natedunn51]

Cesar Graves I hope so. this is A+ kids content

[@willtipton100]

I'd rather have my kids watching this than the baby panda videos. I'm sure the baby panda videos are great, but this is even better.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

KZbin fixed this by having the algorithm royally fuck with any channel that so much as makes firearms out of legos.

[@lanceluthor6660]

I find it infuriating when I think of how much tax dollars were wasted on making a decent rifle into the L85. Not a single person on the design team who had ever fired a rifle! The amount of hubris is unreal.

[@austin_bennett]

Only on American youtube

[@shaundaly1134]

"None of them had fired a rifle before". Yes this sounds like my flipping country.

[@SamnissArandeen]

I was about to say, British civilians likely don't have the chance to fire or even familiarise with a firearm.

[@terrancedactielle5460]

@@SamnissArandeen don't believe the hype. In the 60s/70s when these guns were designed it would have been relatively easy to get signed into a gun club to shoot rifles and hand guns. I'm not sure about any kind of assault rifles though. Nowadays hand guns are to my knowledge not possible but .22 assault rifles/shotguns/rifles can be fired without a licence as part of an activity day out. If you get a gun licence you can fire/own all of these and store them at home if you meet the criteria, I think you can still own am barrett M82 or similar I you have the money.

[@funkyneil2000]

@@terrancedactielle5460 Any rifle we have in the UK has to be manually operated in some way. So that means bolt action, straight pull or lever action. The only exception are rifles chambered in .22LR which can be semi-automatic. .50BMG can also be had as long as it's bolt action (so no M82), you have somewhere to shoot it and the licence. I believe you can even have operating tank main guns as long as it is manually operated. Shotguns depending on your licence can be over/under, side by side, pump action and semi-auto both box fed and tube fed. We can also have muzzle loaders. Providing you have the licence there are few restrictions on those. That's percussion revolvers all the way up to cannon!

[@Kav.]

@@funkyneil2000 not in the 1970s and 80s though, before all the gun control came into force in the late 90s/2000s. Everybody always forgets that pre-80s Britain had pretty much the same gun law as Switzerland does today, looser in some areas even.

[@funkyneil2000]

@@Kav. actually that is a very valid point! In fact I did do some pistol shooting in the 90s when I was younger. I could have had pretty much any pistol I wanted at the time. I always really liked the CZ75!

[@XskiXedgeX]

That quick change barrel system is really slick!

[@PaulP999]

As many others have said, "none of the team had ever fired a weapon" is such a damning line and it makes me recall how the great British motorcycle industry went steadily downhill as the very same happened to it (as in never rode a bike, not shot a gun of course). Now something quite similar is happening to Harley-Davidson, I would say send them this video but no doubt some twenty-something business graduate will ignore it.

[@babalonkie]

It's sad that this rifle looks and sounds far better than what we got today.

[@eagle_2351]

If you've listened to a sa80 (uk standard issue rifle), it sounds the same.

[@callanh1394]

My grandfather was a very good friend of one of the major design contributers towards this project. My father remembers him telling him about it as a kid, when he died in 1992 reportedly one of these was found in the loftspace along with many other rifles he collected over his military career. Was handed in to the MoD at the time along with the rest of what was found. I often wonder if it is the one here

[@tommothedog]

I love that they seem to have put go faster vent holes just for the hell of it

[@Chaddlee]

This helps me to understand some things. i always felt the L85 was basically a good rifle, but that it had been given over to the accountants to build. After a few basic fixes the A2 version is fantastic, if very heavy rifle. Just a shame it had such a tricky birth.

[@salokin3087]

Ian, you've been producing some of your most interesting content, keep it up!

[@Tracks777]

Good video! Keep it up!

[@wowo316g5]

Ok

[@joetaylor486]

So cool that you're doing this Ian. The SLR seemed to be universally loved by British squaddies and the SA80 was a highly controversial choice at the time. The stories of dropped mags, fouling, degraded furniture, ND's when dropped etc dogged them. nice to see the good as well as the bad in development.

[@bborkzilla]

That attention by engineering to the more trivial aspects of the weapon is known as "bikeshedding." People tend to focus on the unimportant but more easily understood part of a project in an attempt to appear competent.

[@matthayward7889]

Another video that feels like it was shot especially for me: Ian, you're a legend!

[@KeithWilliamMacHendry]

As always Ian, thank for your excellent attention to detail, you are the man. Respect from a Scot.

[@DrewWithington]

Postscript: I go fishing at Enfield Island in London, where the Royal Ordnance factory used to be. It got shut down and replaced by a housing estate. Wonder why.

[@NotAllBooksSmellNice]

The sight may be damn near indestructible, but I'm sure everyone whose been issued one will remember the slightly ominous brief about having to evacuate a room and open all the windows if it does break. It's weird what little phrases will bring up the strangest memories.

[@foxxy46213]

Yeah the trilux gas the t in susat sight was apparently toxic..how toxic I don't kno but I heard the same thing too

[@nickbrook234]

@@foxxy46213 - tritium. A soft radioactive beta emitter. Not something you want to inhale nonetheless.

[@trickiejohn]

I has forgotten about that, they were nice to shoot with😁

[@NotAllBooksSmellNice]

@@trickiejohn You should see the LDS we get now. Crystal clear glass, actual crosshairs that can be illuminated to your desired level, and a built in micro red dot sight on top for FIBUA

[@geordiewishart1683]

Ah yes. I remember the stated SOP: Don't breathe in. If indoors, open windows. Apprise unit FMO and armourer

[@TroopperFoFo]

You there with no firearms experience design us a new rifle, since you are engineers this will be easy. This is like asking a blacksmith to design a fighter jet because he deals with metal and really hot fire.

[@dawsongranger4940]

TroopperFoFo I think that's how the A-10 Warthog came to life

[@Earthstar_Review]

I think that's how we got the fantastically inefficient F4.

[@flavortown3781]

The f15 has forged bulkheads, as does the f35, this only really has any bearing because you mentioned a blacksmith

[@LilFelonyOfficial]

Well said

[@someguy95981]

"How do firing pins work? How do extractors work?" I feel this is foreshadowing

[@hansebee]

and over in Austria, during the late 70ies, the Steyr guys looked at this farce, had a jolly good laugh and produced the AUG, still with tears in their eyes

[@chrisarmstrong8082]

I live in Leeds and it blows my mind that you have been here in person

[@pnkemp]

Utterly fascinating, thanks! I never knew they were considering lefty versions. As a lefty I have found the L85 a pain to try to shoot.

[@SeraphinaPZ]

My usual reaction when Ian uploads, "That exists?" Yes, yes it does.

[@ianmitchell525]

I remember handling these at a display for a cadet skill at arms meeting circa 1979: particularly the thumb safety and magazine release which seemed very like those of the SLR and well worth keeping.

[@coitusergosum2447]

24:47 Ian! You're in a simulation! Nothing you see is real! You have to find a way out of there!

[@coitusergosum2447]

Anta Baka Yo

[@BodethIII]

This is already done with HTC Vive's Virtual Reality, with an "game" called Hot Dogs, Horseshoes and Hand Grenades. You can actually fire the Union pistol with the horseshoe magazine itself, abeit in simulation provided by VR.

[@NikoD239]

I he͜ar ̶it'͞s̢ ̸am͢az͡įn҉g̀ ̨wh̵en ̶t̛h̶e f͜ąmo̡us p̸u̕rp͡l̷e st͝u̡ffe̛d͟ wor̡m͠ wit̡h ̵the͠ t̀uning for͏k, ́doeś a͘ r̨aw bl̛i̷n͜k̡ o̵n͢ ̨har͝a-́k̴ir̡i r̴ock! ̵I̧ ̢n͠ee͝d͠ Şci͡s͟s̴ors͞!̛ ̷6͠1!҉

[@justfactual]

this made me laugh pretty hard thank you lol

[@Tsototar]

I find it fascinating that the slow motion video of the shot shows the barrel and body outright "wobbling"... really shows the forces involved

[@phanta_rei2910]

Apparently there are some Baby panda videos on my right side......

[@SeraphinaPZ]

That happens, it's a little oops with the youtube algorithm. More specifically, it's apparently because he labels these videos educational, and algorithms are dumb.

[@LURKTec]

That's a kind way of saying "youtube is shit"

[@donjear2226]

you don't think panda deserve bull-pup machine-guns as much as everybody else?

[@TBAG]

phanta_rei wtf for me too lol

[@DonJohn87_YT]

Same here xD Well done youtube, just what I was looking for!

[@linusmcminus7852]

Fantastic content once again! Thank you!

[@mrbismarck]

The thumbs down on this video come from six members of the Enfield design team and three children looking for baby Pandas.

[@jamesreid7357]

Thank you for doing this, a great insight to the L85's development. Great work.

[@JKC40]

AS Ian fires their one remaining magazine of 4.85mm...

[@JENKEM1000]

tbh the ammunition is more interesting than the gun

[@teddychiu9282]

多謝！

[@scroggins100]

Now that looks more like the ones I fired at Bisley around that year. They had a stand at Bisley and allowed the infanteers to have a play.

[@drjamespotter]

I never knew that there was a prototype LSW with open bolt and removable barrel. That would have made such a difference.

[@norfangl3480]

The barrel looks really awkward to put back in. Carry handle looks really flimsy. The entire thing is made of metal and connected to the gas system. And handling it looks like it could easily burn you via the barrel.

[@Vulf_Faolan]

Yes, I can believe that these important gun decisions were made by people who had no experience with guns. I can believe that very easily.

[@jakekillify]

I hope you get to review the L85A2 one day, and prove the series is fixed finally.

[@drmaudio]

Very interesting. Knowing how it turned out, it is a bit like watching a very, very slow train wreck.

[@tomwinterfishing9065]

Isn’t government wonderful?😂

[@jimmycoco6506]

Every now and again I cone back to this great channel to binge watch most of the vids again. Through doing this I have gained vast knowledge on the engineering and design of firearms. This us how I see it... There are surprisingly simple ways to make a lump of metal fly realy fast and cause lots of damage to whatever it is you aim it at. There are insanly complex ways to make a lump of metal fly realy fast at whatever you aim it at. The fact that none if these guys fired a gun and were expected to make one may sound crazy but in a way it stops things getting to complex and brought in some outside thinking. The best guns ever made are always the ones that are somewhere in between too simple and too complex.

[@robertborgeson1821]

You have peaked my intrigue

[@Robin6512]

and this is excactly why I support this channel. I love these video's. Thanks Ian.

[@scroggins100]

More info, I recall around 76 we played with it a Bisley and the sling was developed along with the bayonet and frog at School of Infantry (who didnt much like it) at Warminster. I also recall the ealry magazines were not very good and we played with some plastic ones also.

[@OneCanisLupus]

Thanks for the info and sharing the video. Great work as always.

[@hussar1681]

Fantastic, keep it coming Ian

[@Shapecharge08]

Ian, if you ever get another chance to fire the rifle again, could you test the ballistics of the 4.85mm bullets (using gel & chronograph)? Because I find the ammunition to be the most interesting part of this weapon system.

[@peterturner2339]

As an engineer in the oil and gas realm, I would refuse to set foot in a plant in which no one involved in the design had any oil and gas experience.

[@agt155]

I doubt any of your engineers have physically worked a drilling rig.

[@peterturner2339]

@@agt155 rig, no. Process plants, yes. My biggest worry would be that there'd be major relief scenarios tied to funky transients (especially during startup) that someone inexperienced who's just applying API 520/521 would miss because they wouldn't know to look for them. The prospect of improperly sized PSVs can be a rather scary one.

[@agt155]

@@peterturner2339 A manual shift worker to professional engineer is a big jump, almost unbelievable.

[@peterturner2339]

@@agt155 it's more a case of "engineers getting very hands-on, especially during plant startups" than "shift workers becoming engineers", although I've known 2 people who ended up making that jump. Fantastic engineers, both.

[@agt155]

@@peterturner2339 I thought you were against engineers with no hands-on experience getting involved.

[@GARDENER42]

As a fellow lefty, I have the same issue with the large safety switch on the L1A1 as you noted here & constantly nudging it out of the fire position. I've alleviated this somewhat by switching the L1A1 safety for one of the "small knob" FAL types. When I have time, I intend to reduce the FAL knob down to just enough to hold the detent ball, as this should still be enough to operate the safety.

[@Horgler]

This may be the only footage we'll ever get to see of this thing in action, and all we get in full auto is a couple two-round bursts.

[@Bunters196]

I've been to the Leeds Armouries so many times but I never see any of this modern weaponry that you seem to get your hands on. Shame they don't have it out on display.

[@ward1476]

so Enfield of all places was unable to get experienced gun designers. Bloody typical.

[@hungryburger1170]

A group of people who never shot a rifle designed a rifle. Classic Europe

[@TheRobbex]

Thank you so much Ian. Very informative and balanced reviews.

[@jamesmcbeth4463]

They should have hired Eugene Stoner as a consultant during the design and machining process. I believe Stoner was still alive then.

[@cardcrash]

Another brilliant video about the SA80, bravo!

[@russellhawkins5113]

As a soldier, my angle on it is that the button option for the safety catch is a far superior choice as it can be silent. Thinking that the lever style safety catch is an improvement indicates there were no professional soldiers on the engineering team also, it is very loud...... what were they thinking?

[@ethanperks372]

The AR-18/180 also had a fixed bolt the recoiled the length of the opening! Yet it had a dust cover that did a good job of preventing dirt from entering the action. The cover was manually closed and automatically opened upon firing.

[@66kbm]

The one problem with the series of Rifles was.....It was not made "Squaddie Proof".

[@possiblycrazy442]

I'm really loving this whole SA80 series.

[@danklvac4746]

24:47 Ian has been replaced by the terminator confirmed

[@XarathCain]

Although there are a few issues with this design stemming from the engineers having little experience with actual rifles or firearms in general is quite impressive that they created this simply with ideas drawn from the AR-180. Being a British gun enthusiast myself, I'm quite proud of what our engineers created, regardless of their little experience.

[@boonamai8926]

Looks WAY cooler than the L85

[@docgonzodotcom]

Playing these @ 50% speeds still cracks me up :) But all shenanigans aside, thanks for this look at something we don't get to see very often...

[@tomwinterfishing9065]

Sounds very immature. I’m going to try it.

[@CAepicreviews]

"Of the 26 people on the design team, a grand total of none of them had fired a rifle before engaging in this project" Yeah how can that ever go wrong?

[@kineticdeath]

at 24:15 during the slow mo you can actually see the next round getting pushed into the chamber, thats really cool

[@ScreamingSturmovik]

that's a really cool looking gun, wish they kept that instead of the lumpy thing

[@jeffreytam7684]

Remarkable how much the rear end looks like the EM-2 on the surface

[@DoRC]

22:58. I'm guessing they were trying to make lefty guns only different in the upper receiver which is why the safety wasn't different.

[@mrphotomanseattle]

Stupid question. Why fractional dimensions with cartridges and bullets? Why 7.62x39 instead of 8x40 or 7.5x40? I understand this when converting caliber to millimeters but when developing a cartridge from the ground up why fractional dimensions? Why make a 4.85 when you could just as easily make it a 5.0?

[@themongoosedog]

Because what performs best in the real world is under no obligation to have a tidy value in our arbitrary number system?

[@whyjay9959]

I don't know if it answers the question, since I guess it's possible that bullet designers sometimes work in 0.01mm, but the 4.85 actually has 5mm bullets(the different designation has something to do with the rifling). If I had to guess I'd say that sectional density and muzzle velocity are much more important than caliber, so if you choose those first, the ratio of caliber(or rather sectional area) to muzzle energy and to recoil is set, leaving the caliber as the specification that gets fine-tuned.

[@SuperFunkmachine]

The use of 7.62mm goes back to the use of imperial units where it was a nice round 0.30 inches.

[@tjp353]

+John Schroeder. I doubt there's one definitive answer to this question that applies to all calibres but, at least in some cases, these apparently obscure sizes will be caused by the difference between the rifle bore diameter, the rifling groove diameter and the bullet diameter. For example, 4.85 x 49 has a bullet diameter of 5mm. 4.85mm is the bore diameter of the barrel. I had a look at .303 British, which was first developed in the 1880s, using good old fashioned inches. The bore diameter is .303", but the bullet diameter is .312". While these dimensions (in both decimal inches & metric) seem obscure, it can be no coincidence that the bullet diameter of .312" equates to 5/16" (.3125"). Some calibres clearly originated from rounded numbers (9mm, .30, .45, etc), but it seems that the same is true of the more obscure ones.

[@Sir_Godz]

look up 22 caliber cartridges if u really want to scratch your head.

[@oktayyildirim2911]

10:09 Is this actually correct? I would've thought the 'repetition' setting would be full auto, not semi-auto. EDIT: I hadn't watched the whole video before commenting.

[@SibbTigre]

Bet you'd love to own one now? Interesting seeing how we screwed up a good weapon.

[@obiwanschinobi]

That was so awesome to see! Loving it!

[@ES1976-3]

Ian if you get the chance, when you have another gun that's is capable of 3 round burst could you please show how that works. If anyone know a video where he does explain that it that would work as well. I am very knowledgeable about guns but when it comes to trigger assemblies I am about as helpful as hammer when you have a screw

[@griffn14]

There's a channel - Stealth The Unknown - that has a couple of videos explaining it.

[@udenszirnis1644]

But you can hammer a screw if you try hard enough.

[@Ratrazor]

The best idea I've seen that came out of any of those different experimental rifles was the open bolt for full auto in the closed bolt for semi-auto, I'm not too big a fan of the rockin magazine but I can see how it can prevent accidentally dropping the magazine. I don't think the button would have caused too many drop magazines though it was still kind of hard to push but I like the idea of the mag sliding in straight. Seems like a much simpler design that you can't get wrong.

[@Coentt]

Where's Spef? Something terrible must have happened to him, he'd never miss a video otherwise

[@thelegendaryklobb2879]

Sssshhh! I heard Ian killed him, but don't tell anyone, ok?

[@ToastyMozart]

Rodrigo Seoane Meanwhile, at the local morgue: "What the hell's '7.8mm Bergmann?'"

[@thelegendaryklobb2879]

Newsflash: local stalker murdered! "The Bergmann killer"

[@acethirtysix8378]

Pryor Plays wait a minute that pic...

[@Coentt]

I see you are a man of culture as well

[@roxrud10]

Very nice use of the word svelte

[@ethanpadgett258]

So I watched your EM2 video and this rifle literally looks like a modern EM2

[@bobdrenan4402]

Make you wonder why some of the more positive things like the lever mag release and barrel didn't make it to the end design.

[@elwismorgan1230]

It is pretty bizarre that nobody ever thought "hmm I wonder if anyone has experience using small arms (looks at British armed forces) nah we got this".

[@кяуртіс]

Looks super slick compared to what they turned out to be. I mean if you add some rails on it where the hand grip is and a top rail you would almost mistake it as a more modern firearm than it is.

[@unidentifiedbiomass4106]

One thing that is not acknowledged often here in the US is that have civilian access to firearms does wonders for small arms r&d.

[@scottberg9893]

Unidentified Biomass that is so true!

[@AshleyPomeroy]

Tell us about the Remington R51.

[@rnichol22]

Does wonders for mass murder aswell

[@jackandersen1262]

Ashley Pomeroy the original as designed by John Pedersen was a quite decent product, until the powers that be decided to modify it.

[@jackandersen1262]

rikster 111110 I don’t remember hearing about any of these incidents before the one that started the ball rolling for the Assault Weapon Import Ban. Do you? Guns of this type have existed longer than you and I, but did these incidents happen before?

[@johnoneill270]

There's still 4.85mm ammo????? are they still making it????

[@mrgatisberzins]

This video is so cool, good job!

[@fitnready4]

Hi Ian, when were you in the UK and did you enjoy our great Country?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Yes, I did.

[@BlankPicketSign]

Can you do a follow up video with the SA80 Rifle they are using now? To sort of compare and contrast with these videos?

[@UKMilitaria]

Awesome seeing some modern British service rifles

[@darthhodges]

It occurs to me that the silhouette on these looks more like the EM2 than the L85. I must assume the designers had at least pictures of those if not actual examples to handle during the initial design phases.

[@redneckoperations8190]

I've noticed how popular the basic design of the AR18 is in military rifles lately. The AR18 was never used iirc but the operating mechanism is copied all the time.

[@srspower]

Britain must have been short on money when they designed this. Why didn't they just make a smaller 5.56x45 version of the SLR? It would have been a LOT cheaper and it actually would have worked.

[@joeblow9657]

I think they were really keen on reducing length and getting the bullpup configuration given that the priority for combat operations would've been operating out of armoured vehicles and fighting in urban areas such as Northern Ireland.

[@DPbike]

Excellent informative video. Thanks Ian

[@davidmarshall7390]

Fun fact: A pair of these were used by the actors (Lewis Collins and Martin Shaw) in an episode of a British TV show called "The Professionals" I believe the Episode is called "Wild Justice" and it's the only video footage I've ever seen the weapons in.

[@HO-bndk]

They appear in a couple of British Army training films from the early 80s. "Recce Patrol" and "Fighting Patrol" for example. I guess they were trying to ensure the film would stay relevant when the SA-80 entered service.

[@zogworth]

The same situation happened with trains. They were developing an 'advanced passenger train' but in order to start without any preconcieved notions almost none of the engineers had rail experience. So all the tiny details like making sure the air lines were slightly sloped to prevent condensation pooling just weren't known about leading to massive delays and failures.

[@LionofCaliban]

Thoughts that strike me about bullpups from this vid. Controls can make and break bullpups. Seriously bad placement can make something unusable. Also, having mag releases on the top and bottom seem like a good place for them for some reason. That rock back and rear, bottom mag release motion, looks so simple and you can do it semi-confined, ish, too. Second thing, it must just be the package shape, but getting inside and cleaning them, looks painful. Really does. The version with the drop away lower, great idea and even better, you seemingly can get into the small places no problem. At least next to say, that X95 Tavor that you guys mud tested. Third thought, seriously none of the guys developing it fired a rifle? I'm actually speechless at that.

[@bubba200874426]

My biggest problem with the bullpups i've used is the trigger feels like pulling on a sponge.

[@ohredhk]

Have been waiting for this one.

[@williamprice3929]

People complain that the .223 (5.56x45mm) is a .22 caliber and doesn't have stopping power, 4.85x49mm would have even less. No mention of barrel rifling, Ian said there is no ballistic information. I think it would have been a low stopping power dud.

[@tomhass8015]

The fact it's a rifle means it has rifling

[@tomhass8015]

the fact it's a rifle means its rifled

[@harry9392]

If the team had have some firearms design experience it probably would have been a great weapon and saved the MOD a lot of money , I loved my L1A1 but when I was discharged on 2002 I had warmed up to the sa80 , I remember hard targeting out of a police station in Belfast my mag fell off rounds every were not good