Love your thorough Testing + efficient Reviews. This is passion. Love from Switzerland
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Richard. It's so inspirational to me to know that you and others find this sport and what we're doing enjoyable. Its the fuel we need to keep going. Thank you kindly for taking the time to share these thoughts with me. Best wishes, Devon
@CarkeekW Жыл бұрын
Time to try the 1750 and 1550 this spring
@davidhughes78883 жыл бұрын
Another very professional vid; fun to watch and full of technical data. I feel your research and advice to us newbies Will drive the manufacturers to make our purchases more cost effective. Nothing worse than paying to be part of the Foil firms R&D department!
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, David. I really appreciate the comment. I am still amazed how much in learning after more than a year into this and over 50 foils tried. We have a lot to look forward to in terms of development and while no one has beat 35 I’m confident it will happen if we continue to share what we learn, and (a really big and) manufacturers care to pursue good foils for wake thieving. Thanks again 🙏
@lnbadi3 жыл бұрын
cool vid! I hope the tech will evolve further to enable constant flight!
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Me too! My dream is to pump on flat water for 30min ... the physics suggests its possible, but the technology still has to advance in terms of stiffness, weight, wing sizes, and stability (understanding of how to control a wing of such size). Lots to do, but enjoying the journey!
@fluiditynz3 жыл бұрын
The narrow range of effective lift angle ties in to your observation on it's thinness, As you raise your climb angle under load, water has to deflect direction around the leading edge to follow the upper surface to it's trailing edge. The issue is that the leading edge is thin and provides minimal radius to smoothly redirect the water from your loaded motion vector. Coanda effect breaks, flow delaminates from the top surface and the wing stalls.
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Super helpful! I wish I knew this before making video. Thank you, Graham.
@sabrinazimmermann27393 жыл бұрын
So would shimming the baseplate via the method in an earlier wake thief video cause it to stall earlier? Would a sanded finish similar to a 2000g kitefoil race finish help?
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Shimming base plate just moves the board relative to foil, so it can change the amount you have to bend your more-bent leg, which is often your front leg but nothing else significant. Sanding is good. I’ve been told by experts that most production foils aren’t sanded enough.
@Pete_R633 жыл бұрын
Always blown away by the depth of your analysis and I watch each video wondering if it will be the foil for me. Just got my first wing from Mackite and am slowly starting the hunt for the best foil and board.
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Hi Pete! Great to hear from you. Thank you so much for the comment and your support. If I can help you down select among foil options, please don't hesitate to reach out!
@csc_surf3 жыл бұрын
Try it with the 92 cm mast that is much stiffer and the +10cm help with the pumping.
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
A stiffer mast would no doubt help. Please help me understand why a longer mast is good for pumping? I have found that a longer mast is less stiff than a short master in both torsion and bending and I only need about 30cm max to pump efficiently, so struggled to justify more than 70cm of mast especially if it is less flexible, weighs more and makes it harder to control foil because the control of your feet is further away from the point of action (front wing). Thank you for the suggestion!
@csc_surf3 жыл бұрын
@@WakeThief I have found, that with a larger mast I can pump at a slower rate, but generate more power going up and down (leaverage), gliding more. With a shorter mast you have to pump much faster.
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Cristian. I'll give it a try!
@jean-pierredesiebenthal53253 жыл бұрын
Another great video. Well done.
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, JP!
@jimmymazzanti14513 жыл бұрын
Very nice review, thank you
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much, Jimmy
@stkl233 жыл бұрын
Great review as always, Devon! I agree with most of your observations - especially concerning the pumping rhythm. I too often find myself "missing" a pump and then completely losing rhythm. The dock start on this foil isn't that complicated (although I have no foil to compare it too). While hard to learn initially, it is very "forgiving" since you can glide a bit before beginning to pump. Due to the drag you lose speed quite fast however. The nose dives you experienced may have been due to the S370 you used in the video. I remember that Gunnar Biniasch mentioned that a foil will simply pitch down in high speeds when the stabilizer's area becomes too small to stabilize the front wing (search for his stabilizer tech talk here on YT). I use the W1250 with the S399 for pumping and with the S483 for winging where the speed is higher. About the mast: Apparently the M92 is not only stiffer but also 1 or 2mm thinner than the M82. I don't have one for comparison though.
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Steff! I used the S470 in the review. I'm sorry if that's wasn't clear. Interesting point about the M92. If it is stiffer that would've helped a lot and helped increase the pumping duration. I will try to get one to try and at least measure defection Thank you!
@phd-composites3 жыл бұрын
@@WakeThief hi there, sorry to chime into this discussion, but I wanted to ask about the S470 stabiliser: how or where did you get this stab? I asked Sabfoil and apparently they never produced the S470! Is this stabiliser an aftermarket, non-official Sabfoil product?
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Wow! That’s so interesting. I had no idea. This was part of setup that mackite had loaned to us. I’ll look into this further. I appreciate the comment
@phd-composites3 жыл бұрын
@@WakeThief no worries, just got an email back from Tucker at Mackiteboarding, apparently the S470 was developed for windsurf racing, but it's not in production anymore. Cheers
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the update!
@davidderocher3 жыл бұрын
Great Video. Lift... The 470 stabilizer you are using is going to lean toward speed while sacrificing low end lift. It is a good match for pushing the wind upper range for wind/wing foiling. The 450 stabilizer would change the dynamics quite a bit here. It would be slower of course but likely increase lift and stabilize turning. I would be interested in seeing which stabilizer produced better glide. Maybe the 450?
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
I have found that the best glide is a function of the smallest possible rear wing, as the rear wing does not lift due to its negative angle of attack orientation (which pulls it down ... negative lift in level flight). So since it negative lifts, you want it small because it will contribute drag. ... however, higher max pumping speed can be achieved with a larger rear wing (up to a limit) and I believe the 470 is pretty close to that limit, based on my experience sweeping different rear wing sizes (not in SABFoil, but other brands) ...any more area in a rear wing and its' ability to speed pumping up is negated by its larger drag. I'm sorry if this is confusing. If it is, happy to discuss further. Please email me at wakethief@icloud.com
@davidderocher3 жыл бұрын
@@WakeThief That is interesting . I re-watched Balz and realized he was using the 399 in his attempt, but I think may be using a stiffer mast.
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Yes. Someone else mentioned that his mast is stiffer, which I’m glad to hear.
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for letting me know
@zdavatz3 жыл бұрын
nice review, thank you!
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Zeno! Great to hear from you and thank you for taking the time to comment.
@glucklichprutas46313 жыл бұрын
Nice review. Too bad you could not attach the SABFoil 1250 to the Axis fuselage. Great that Mackite is lending you foils to test. I brought the SlingShot Gamma set up from them and waiting for the Quantum 100 review before considering to buying an Axis 1150 ... so dependent on the wind for now.
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the comment! I will be reviewing the FPump / Quantum 100 in two weeks, so please stay tuned.
@heavyweather3 жыл бұрын
You know that the next phase is to modify the profiles and get into building your own all-star pump foil.
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
LOL. I'm too busy trying foils to build my own! I enjoy giving feedback about the different foils and learning why one might perform better than another. I appreciate your vote of confidence!
@rockyhoshijo21423 жыл бұрын
I’m curious to see the cloud 9 test! Will you be testing the F38?
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
F42. It’s right in our sweet spot of area and aspect ratio. I will talk to Chris about the F38 but I worry it might be a bit small.
@rockyhoshijo21423 жыл бұрын
@@WakeThief Was this review already released? 🤙
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Not yet, Rocky. Still working on it!
@roycheung49632 жыл бұрын
I have a sabfoil 1100 set for wingfoiling. but really want the right parts for dock start and pumping. any suggestions of what parts to get?
@WakeThief2 жыл бұрын
1100 should be fine. 1250 is good too. I’m assuming you’re
@cefirmeza3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. Can you pump the W1000 on flat?
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Yes, I think I could pump it but not from a dock start. I would expect it to perform quite similar to this wing I reviewed, in the sense that I needed to get towed up and then could only pump it at a very high speed: kzbin.info/www/bejne/roTCpoB9oqdshs0
@claudiobertadeazevedo46693 жыл бұрын
Was the 6 minutes pump ride done on the the same water and density?
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Probably not but density isn’t that big of a factor compared to viscosity which nearly doubles as water temperature falls from very warm water (think Dubai in summer) and cold water (mine right now which is approaching freezing) and that is a much bigger factor (maybe 10-20W of power!!!)
@95aquila3 жыл бұрын
Great review! What board are you using?
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
This is the dwarfcraft from slingshot. kzbin.info/www/bejne/d2bOqHZtmtSDhLc. If I can help you figure out a board don’t hesitate to reach out. Wakethief@icloud.com
@95aquila3 жыл бұрын
@@WakeThief nice thanks, great board! Is that a new version (2022)?
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
This is a prototype from 2021 model year ... the 2021s look great. I don't think they're any different in 2022. If you want help picking one out, please email. wakethief@icloud.com. Happy to help.
@chingng42623 жыл бұрын
hello , I use the moses1100 to pump but I can not sucess.... do you have any tips to me I can send my video to you
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Yes, please send to me. Wakethief@icloud.com
@johnded88133 жыл бұрын
Your my hero!
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
LOL. Thanks! Good to hear from you, John!
@johnded88133 жыл бұрын
@@WakeThief 👍
@thbros48392 жыл бұрын
can you please help i really want a foil for dock starting
@WakeThief2 жыл бұрын
Yes, here's our favorite ... axisfoils.com/r?id=4ob1e6 Please use WAKETHIEF22 coupon code to save $50 and we will send you a free hat & stickers! We make a small commission when you use our code. You can see a complete review and comparison video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKnIfJh5Z6-KnK8
@kryszczuk3 ай бұрын
So you found that the carbon M82 is mechanically worse than the aluminum mast, and yet I see you ride the carbon mast throughout the video. Why?
@WakeThief3 ай бұрын
I don’t believe I had an aluminum SAB mast. This was all I had.
@petergalli20013 жыл бұрын
Yo la tengo !!
@schpiedy3 жыл бұрын
I do not think you used the correct setup for this foil. This frontwing is to be used entirely with the updated Sabfoil m-series masts. Like the Sabfoil m92 mast. This mast is 16 mm thick. I am using the sabfoil 1250 with an Clysdale Mast by Project Cedrus, Lenght 96 cm. No wobbling or twisting at all! Greetings from Berlin.
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Great suggestion! I used the mast that Mackite had in stock and will discuss this updated mast. 16mm thick still might not be stiff enough. I have reviewed the Cedrus mast and agree that it is quite stiff. In fact, I found it identically stiff to the benchmark aluminum mast I showed in this video. You're right, I suspect it would be an improvement over what I used here. Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment!
@schpiedy3 жыл бұрын
@@WakeThief I have not tested the Sabfoil m- series masts, as I am more than happy with the Cedrus mast.... But do not underestimate the upgraded m-series mast by Sabfoil. They are thicker AND wider. Looking at the 6min pumping video by Balz Müller I would most certainly say Balz uses a m-series mast, as he does in his other videos.
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
I so appreciate you sharing this, as that would explain a lot. Thank you!
@stkl233 жыл бұрын
@@schpiedy Yes, he uses the M92. I have the M82 and don't recognize flexing.
@schpiedy3 жыл бұрын
@@WakeThief Unfortunately all this stuff concerning foils has become a real "science" in itself. It is hard to keep track of all the constant changes. Most manufacturers do litte or hardly anything to enlighten this jungle. Sabfoil is one of the few companies which at least publishes the essential specs of their products. So guys like you, who are realy testing and measuring the actual specs and performance are such a great help for every sincere foiling addict ;-) Keep up the good work! Concerning Projekt Cedrus Mast: As mentioned above, I am using the Cedrus Clysdale Mast. This is an even stiffer version. I think you have been testing the basic Cedrus mast. Just an other tripwire in this jungle....
@trihuynh43772 жыл бұрын
Ok
@s2oooo3 жыл бұрын
So the other guy has 3x the fitness 😁😁😁😁🤣
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Sort of ... as it turns out, if you can do something for 3min if you lower the power just a bit, you can do it for 6min ... not the case when you go from 1min to 2min ... The graph in this video explains it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nqG3hmOkltJrl6c. The cool thing about foiling is we're at that point where just 25% less power to pump would allow a mere mortal like me to fly for 30min ... that would mean a super athlete could go for an hour or more.
@s2oooo3 жыл бұрын
@@WakeThief 3 minutes that's what you told your wife 🤣
@WakeThief3 жыл бұрын
Omg. 😂
@s2oooo3 жыл бұрын
@@WakeThief 😂😂😂😂😂
@flyingpeew45702 жыл бұрын
@@WakeThief Was talking about this last week. Would be a good idea to ask a professional cyclist (guys built like Vingegaard or Pogacar) or light framed (long distance) speed skater to give it a go. Two/three weeks of practice. Then an attempt. I'm sure their endurance and strength/weight ratio will crush the 60 minute barrier.