Saddle safety confidence tips. Eliminating single points of failure

[@ScottWConvid19]

Great ideas

[@AnonymousGrunt]

This year I'm going to be wearing a riggers belt as the belt for my pants. So I'll hook up to my tether as normal, but this year I'll have an extra piece of amsteel connecting my riggers belt to a prusik knot above my regular attachment point with a ropeman ascender. If I really wanted to be safe, I could bring another tether to connect the riggers belt into separately. Still kicking around the question of if the added weight is worth it.

[@Ruizltx]

Thanks for the tips. I sure will put them to use this upcoming season.

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Best of luck , climb safe Ruben!

[@BullmanOutdoors]

Great video and tips ! Thanks for the info !

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Thanks for the positive feedback really appreciate it !

[@PrivilegedBowhunter]

This is gold!

[@buckstop1031]

I've never worried at all about my saddle setup until I watched your videos. Is there any documented cases of a hunter falling from a single point failure? I have never read of anybody having a bridge or tether failing. Anybody?

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Yes there is a case of a saddle hunter fall but the details are sketchy. What was originally reported was "sterling Oplux snapped" however what I've heard was it was a scaffold knot tied incorrectly that was the cause not the actual rope. I think for most hunters a safety harness provides redundancy so since as a saddle hunter we are using a fall restraint system there's no safety harness so redundancy and eliminating single points of failure backing up your system gives us that added measure of safety that a safety harness provides for a tree stand hunter, if your not wearing an actual safety harness .

[@340wbymag]

My Petzl Rig is connected to my bridge. As a backup, I connect my hand ascender to my bridge. It feels like a good system until you think about the single bridge. What if it fails? Yes, I know it's strong and it has been tested, but still, something can happen. I don't know if this is a good plan, but I used two quick-links to attach a prusik cord to the lineman's loops on my saddle to serve as a backup in case the saddle bridge fails. My Petzl Rig and the hand ascender connect to the bridge and the backup bridge at the same time. It hangs loose enough to not interfere with the real bridge. Will it actually save me if something happens? I don't know, but it makes me feel safer in the tree!

[@NYSaddleHunter]

You can always run a second bridge . The Amsteel bridge is so light you won’t even know it’s there. It add a level of redundancy ! Check out our Buddy Matt at VGO if your interested www.vitalgroundoutdoors.com/

[@jakesevits9090]

One thing I could share that may give some folks peace of mind: I was previously an engineer in the wire rope industry where we made slings, rope assemblies, etc. One of the industry practices to ensure a safe product was to "proof load" the assemblies to twice the "working load". Working load was typically 20% of the breaking strength of the rope and was not to be exceeded in normal use. The proof load was 40% of the breaking strength of the rope and was imparted on the assembly by the manufacturer in the factory. The proof load was low enough to ensure no damage was caused on the rope, and still twice that of what the rope should ever see in service, therefore giving peace of mind that the assembly was made properly and safe. TLDR; folks wanting to ensure their assemblies are safe before hunting season could load them to twice the weight they will see in the field, i.e. twice your body weight plus a little for gear, and if there is no failure feel very safe that the assembly will not fail them in the field. Even if loaded to 500-600 pounds, this is still so far below the breaking strength of the rope that no damage should be caused by this loading.

[@tylerparker3024]

I will tell you that tying up the tag of your tether that tightly is actually going to make your prusik knots less able to do their job. You need that tether to be slack. You could surely tie the end of it off to your bridge but dont wrap it all up tight like that you neee some slack so that your weight is all on the prusik initially. Otherwise it could come loose

[@BoxieOutdoors]

Thank you for sharing these safety tips. I'm sure everyone can benefit from this. Have a BLESSED day.

[@tylermatthews4408]

Once again, good video. I appreciate the information

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Thank Tyler. Appreciate the support !

[@Rooster_king]

I dont do this but what about using two amsteel bridges and tying your slack tether to the spare one? The amsteel weight is negligible and it eliminates another single point failure.

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Sure I actually tied in a second bridge for climbing DRT doing that would back up the amsteel bridge absolutely good idea check out this video I posted about a week agokzbin.info/www/bejne/enrdaqJmqsxjgqM

[@aaronfox915]

Good tips for peace of mind. Like the 2 prussik idea. I’ll definitely use that.

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Thanks Aaron. Joe definitely does a good job on the details. His take on climbing not only covers the uneasiness of a beginner but also the safety aspect

[@lhb4031]

I am in upstate ny. Thanks for the tips. I would just leave my climbing rope attached , but this is what I will set up also. Thanks again

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Leroy where upstate? We're in the Hudson valley Dutchess county

[@lhb4031]

NY Saddle Hunter I am in West Sand Lake. I did my first saddle hunt in 2018 season . Happy hunting is a safe hunt

[@NYSaddleHunter]

@@lhb4031 you're about an hour north of us . Absolutely . The only one who should not be safe are the deer lol. * Animals will be harmed testing these products lol

[@TheWVgoodguy22]

Thanks for the heads up on that safety tip. I will definitely have to reference this again. I got my Tethrd saddle kit in the mail, now I have to most likely get the DRT kit and find a ring of steps.

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Nice use that NYSH code you'll get a discount , DRT is a fun way to climb and explore the various ways to use it. Once you get the hang of it it's easy, safe, fun , and light. Good luck with it , hope you enjoy it as much as I do!

[@tylerparker3024]

So to eliminate single points of failure, wear 2 complete setups. Lol

[@aaroncunningham4169]

What if your bridge breaks?

[@NYSaddleHunter]

I addressed your question in this follow up video kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmW0ooR4m5aIabc

[@aaroncunningham4169]

Thanks

[@rmatyiku]

I was thinking the other night on your video advising against using a ropeman on your tether and thought about using a prusik similarly with the ropeman. Could be the best of both worlds in my opinion. Stay safe!

[@jeffking8642]

I also use a prussic to back up the Ropeman on my tether

[@garrettsoutdoors9632]

I’ll give you some piece of mind I pulled an f350 superduty out of a ditch with that climbing rope.

[@toll9924]

Brand new to saddles and prusik knots.. Just started testing out my saddle set up, and my prusik slids when I put my full weight in the saddle. Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Absolutely not a prussic should not slide . Send us a friend request on NY saddlehunter forum on Facebook and if you could post video or pics I'll be better able to see if I can Identify the problem

[@Aengus1385]

Correct me if I’m wrong, When climbing DRT your climbing rope is essentially your tether, correct? You don’t add a separate tether when you get hunting height,

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Dave its preferance. If you want you can stay on the climbing line , but I personally like to transition to my tether. I set a predator platform then install my tether, clip into my longer amsteel bridge on the tethrd mantis, then unclip from my climbing line. However you can stay on the climbing line and that has its advantages as it gives you more mobility around the tree especially large circumfrence trees. Small skinny trees are easy to get around on a tether larger trees limit you so on a climbing lune with a higher tue in point it gives you some more mobility

[@howardkuhn2793]

How well does the bridge slide with the tether tied all around it??

[@NYSaddleHunter]

No problem if you tie a running bowline knot so its around it but not tight. What I'm doing now is I run 2 bridges and now I tie the excess off to my short bridge and it doesn't effect my turning in my bridge at all

[@davetoms63]

Tie tag end of tether on loop where bridge goes... backs up a bridge failure

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Dave Yes, good point. I made a follow up video saying same thing here it is kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmW0ooR4m5aIabc

[@MrShysterme]

Turn your lineman's lanyard into a second, somewhat slack, tether and attach it to your saddle waist belt (make sure the saddle waist belt is all rated for weight bearing).

[@CardBoardKnights]

What type of main line rope should I be looking at for drt climbing?

[@NYSaddleHunter]

We use the 11.4mm predator climbing line or an equivalent like yale bandit. Arborist rated climbing line with good knot tieing characteristics .

[@CardBoardKnights]

@@NYSaddleHunter I have been carrying a ghost blind that few years, I am ready to get back in a tree!

[@billfresh3776]

your opening thoughts mirror mine. very new to saddle hunting. i am about 250lbs. i know the difference between 250lbs and say, 190lbs is minimal but i worry about the ropes and other gear failing. my mind tells me that the ropes and other gear are rated way over anything my fat butt will put on them but it still sits in the back of my mind. difficult to get at ease for me so far.

[@NYSaddleHunter]

It's a different dynamic than being in a tree stand. In a stand you have metal platform with a safety harness . In a saddle it's all one, you don't have something as a back up. I should've said in the video if your really nervous you could leave your lineman belt on as well. It's not really in the way and it might provide a feeling of having more than a single point of failure / fall restraint .

[@nickfowler2995]

You guys are doing an awesome job with sharing your insights and knowledge! Keep those videos coming!

[@andrewtalamas]

another amsteel bridge with a figure eight knot lossely clipped onto the carabiner that way if amsteel 1 snaps 2 catches you and if either side of saddle snaps your hanging on opposite side but that is a lot of material to be wearing

[@andrewtalamas]

or maybe a figure 8 on the bridge clip carabiner on loop. might help on those failures

[@NYSaddleHunter]

@@andrewtalamas In our case we need to install a short climbing bridge to climb DRT. I tie the excess of the tether off in a loose bowline knot on the climbing short bridge. It serves 2 purposes. One it tidys up the hanging extra tether, also it serves as some redundency for my prussic, carabiner and factory amsteel bridge

[@thomaskopec5454]

Just wear a full harnesses with separate rope if you truly want a complete back up....IMHO

[@dakotabryson5465]

You could add another tie in point like throwing your climbing line above you from your desired position and then thether or use 2 tethers when using your weapon like you would have two ways to secure yourself to the tree like when using a chainsaw. Can target a point branch in the area to secure your rope on so it doesn't slide on the trunk like you'd use a lanyard and you can grab on to it too

[@jeffcantwell7821]

I was wondering if you have a video on all the gear you use for climbing I’ve never saddle hunted before I always use my trees stand but this way of hunting has caught my attention and would like to know more about it Thank you jeff

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Jeff I think this video we made might help . kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnvXkniOr82fgc0

[@jeffcantwell7821]

Thanks for sending me this video another question where do you get your equipment

[@NYSaddleHunter]

@@jeffcantwell7821 I'm using a Tethrd mantis saddle. Scott is using the Aero hunter flex. We buy our climbing gear from Wesspur. Here's some links: tethrdnation.com/product/mantis/ www.wesspur.com/ aerohunter.us/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=82

[@jeffcantwell7821]

NY Saddle Hunter Thank you for the info

[@NYSaddleHunter]

@@jeffcantwell7821 your welcome

[@bradbishop1893]

Agreed, I do a second tether and bridge for this very reason. It’s the marine motto , one is none, two is one and three is two. It is for tying things off but applies to this as well.

[@davidrussell631]

Good video. I bought a tree suit many years ago and am in the process of modifying it to be more user friendly, quieter, and more comfortable. I will definitely keep “single points of failure” in mind, as well. Thank you.

[@gregbrightman1205]

do you have any videos of you hunting 20 feet up in a tree?

[@NYSaddleHunter]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/lWTRYZqFpLWGatE

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Late season 2018 was my first time hunting out of a saddle. We didn't even have a KZbin channel or think about making videos until we thought about sharing how we were climbing DRT to go in real light. Thought others would like the idea so we made a video. It got so many views over 20k that we said we have 80 years of hunting experience between the two of us and Scott's 30 years tree climbing experience maybe sharing some of our experiences from two regular guys struggling without lots of $ like probably the overwhelming majority of hunters are is something that might be appealing to lots of guys. Plus we just think it's kind of fun. We plan on filming our saddle hunts and sharing them this year

[@gregbrightman1205]

@@NYSaddleHunter fair enough

[@luckytrapper7656]

Great tips but you probably will have a hard time getting the amsteel bridge to slide through the caribeaner. What I do is use the second prusik knot and slide it down your tether and attach it to one of your linemen loops.

[@TheAllankuz]

Seems like a good idea for that extra piece of mind. How about taking the tag end of your tether and attaching it to your belt via another carabiner?

[@NYSaddleHunter]

I think you'd want to have pressure on the D loops of the saddle and not on the belt itself, a second bridge I think might be a better option , however it would offer some level of redundancy in the event your bridge fails

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Made this vid this morning kind of touches on a variation of your idea. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmW0ooR4m5aIabc

[@WIGSLY]

I know you are well intentioned but no this is not safer. There are safe ways to use backup knots and create redundancy but some of what you’re doing could potentially stop you from self rescuing if something happens and you’re stuck on two prusiks or if you can’t get your tether loose. Always consider what would happen if you got stuck hanging how would you get out of it.

[@NYSaddleHunter]

@@WIGSLY being that we’re always attached to a 40’ life line , that would be how we would self rescue in a life threatening situation. Even though we sometimes tranfer over to a short bridge are safety is never compromised being attached to two systems

[@WIGSLY]

@@NYSaddleHunter I’m always attached a repel length line as well. I choose to backup a different way because if your platform falls out from under you you want more than a mad rock to back you up. You do you but I wouldn’t advocate for people to use this method. I know because I’ve been stuck and had to cut my line and fall before.

[@josephtreadlightly5686]

Reasons I decided 2 start hunting with a saddle: I want to more safe up & down while being more stealth. I also want 2 hunt those trees that r hard to climb or put a stand in. I'm tired of sitting in a telephone pole tree that is next 2 a red oak with leaves. I want 2 be in the red oak. If I hunt more trees like this I can rest my feet on branches that r as large as most tree trunks. My feet get cold on steel but never on wood. Play your cards right & u can shoot 360* while moving from big limb 2 big limb. Last but not least, getting down & leaving while leaving nothing behind quiet & safely as possible.

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Welcome to the obsession !!! Go In Light Come Out Heavy

[@josephtreadlightly5686]

@@NYSaddleHunter U mean come out adult heavy...lol

[@p1harleyford]

I would buy one of these if they implemented a safety strap into the theathered system everything should be backed up when it’s your life on the line I wear a harness in my climbers I love hunting but I don’t want to die for it

[@gregbrightman1205]

with you tether tied around the bridge how are you gonna move around the tree, now the whole tether has to move around the tree

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Greg, When I wrap my tether around the bridge it isn't tight and won't hamper going around the tree any more than your caribiner to your bridge does. I feel no difference wrapped or unwrapped. Keep in mind I'm using the slack in my tether if you have any. If you like to run a long tether to give lots of range of motion and you have little to no tether that's were the double prussic might be another option. I mean you don't need to do anything , if you feel plenty comfortable and confident already . This tip is more for anyone who might feel more comfortable with some sort of redundancy is all .

[@baggypantsdevil82ndmiller35]

Great video! thanks for the tips. I added a second prusik to my tether as well however I use a second carabiner and attach it to the prusik knot near the tag end of my tether to my lineman loop of saddle. it keeps the tether close to you as well rather than swinging freely and it still allows full range of motion. So if the bridge fails this will act as a secondary safety.

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Good Idea!

[@franciscoparra5266]

Nice video! Here some thoughts! 1 - I would probably put the 2nd Prusik above the first one but then with a little more rope/slack so it’s not loaded, just for backup! In your case, for some reason the first one slides, the way you did, it would push the second one along until it reach the stopper notch, maybe? 2- I tie the theder excess directly on the saddle(in my case a climbing harness + sitdrag). You can put a Prusik and a carabiner at that end and a secondary saddle bridge with Amsteel rope and and leave some slack to make it a backup safety. Coming from engineering, we have what’s called FMEA, you identify every potential risk and take preventive actions! NASA, airplane, and car manufacturers do that all the time, very thoughtful from you to post a video like this.

[@NManitou]

I use a sit drag with a climbing harness attached to my linesman rope. Everything is backed up except the tree.

[@kellylyda6575]

It's always good to add redundancy. A clean simple way to achieve the same result you might try is: Instead of adding a second prusik and wrapping your rope end; just tie an overhand knot or figure 8 on a bight in the end of your tether and clip it. This would tidy up your loose end and back up your prusik in one step. (this may have been suggested already. If so, I second it)

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Another good idea

[@MexicanMovie]

Great video, i TOTALLY agree and highly recommend to everybody to take extra safety measures, and also to seek out as many professional rock climbing videos as possible to learn all about properly tying rappel ropes, what knots to use on various items and how to properly tie them.... and proper use of autoblock, klemheist, prusiks, etc.... note that prusik can't be released under load but autoblock and klemheist can, and that is why climbers normally rappel with autoblock and not a prusik.

[@jeremiahcogan9379]

I am on my third season of saddle hunting, I fail to understand the last tether wrap around the bridge. You connected two prusik knots already to the bridge. Great second fail safe there. The tether however wrapped around the bridge and carabiner applies no extra safeguards. If your bridge snaps, the tether won’t hold the bridge. You would be better off creating a second bridge that goes through the same carabiner or have the second bridge connected to your second prusik hanging lightly lower out of the way. That would give you two safeties to your tehter. Now the only last second safety you would need is your tether itself. Use a slightly longer tether and tie a secured knot to the tree with the bottom of the tether. That would give you two connections to the tree. Just remember that a two foot gap from point a to point b is double the distance in the drop if point a breaks.

[@NYSaddleHunter]

I figured I want to tie up my excess tether and why not wrap it diwn around my bridge. In hind site I have a second bridge for climbing drt by running the excess through that i have a failsafe on my primary bridge. However I made this follow up the next day that adresses a bridge failure kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmW0ooR4m5aIabc Thanks for the comment , and good luck !

[@chadgoebel7476]

Since you already have a second bridge you would probably be better off using the slack of your tether to loop under the second bridge and back onto your caribiner. I only have one bridge on my saddle but I always loop my extra tether with a figure 8 loop tied on the end under my bridge and back up to my carabiner as a redundant safety should my prussic fail. I'm not a fan of how you wrapped your tether around your bridge. I like to pivot and twist my hips for more shooting opportunities and I think the way you tied off may limit your mobility in the tree at some point but if it makes you feel more comfortable than that's all that matters. Thanks for sharing, I really enjoy the videos you guys put out.

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Thanks, I agree if you pull the loop tight around your bridge it could hamper mobility , it's not necessary to pull it tight just having it looped around it and in a overhand knot or maybe a bowline if there's enough tether to allow for it it would be loose around the bridge to not hamper movement but a good knot in the event it needed to hold you in the tree. For the sake of the video I just quickly looped like two half hitches and tucked it away

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Chad Made this video this morning after thinking about your comment, thanks for your input! kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmW0ooR4m5aIabc

[@chadgoebel7476]

I like what you guys are doing, it opens up a dialogue to help us all to contribute our ideas and to educate each other and to hone our skills and our set ups. Keep up the great work!!!! 👍

[@NYSaddleHunter]

@@chadgoebel7476 Thanks Chad !

[@joelferron1700]

The thing of all hunting gear is to use it proper way. Instead of showing how not to use them show the right way. Just like driving your car to go hunting is there a chance you could get in a Accident so what you going to walk or ride ? There is no difference you need to lear how to use your gear the right way and trust it. Otherwise just sit on the ground.

[@bucktalk69]

Yea but now you can’t rotate your hips in the bridge

[@NYSaddleHunter]

You can as long as you don't sinch it up tight. Your wrapping it around the bridge but your tether isn't actually holding any of your weight the caribiner is. Only in the event of a failure of either a caribiner or a prussic would the tether have enough pressure to prevent you from rotating your hips, and at that point , I'd want to regroup and make sure my failed item is working. I guess my point is this is a fail safe and as long as it's not wrapped tight but it is wrapped you should not notice anything different.

[@NYSaddleHunter]

Made this video this morning after our discussion, thanks for your input ! kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmW0ooR4m5aIabc