Sailing My Proa in More Wind! Waimea E3

[@zackariasthepirate]

Great summary of the leeboard effects. The rig and sail shape look good!

[@dominictarrsailing]

thanks! do you have a speed estimate?

[@zackariasthepirate]

@@dominictarrsailing 9 knots?... looks fast

[@chrispalmer1255]

Fantastic video Dominic! Love your explanation

[@chrispalmer1255]

Would love to see close up of the brailing line attachments and how it works. Still trying to wrap my brain around it

[@orangespy]

Love your tenacity!

[@dominictarrsailing]

thank you! but how fast do you reckon I was going?

[@orangespy]

@@dominictarrsailing You were crack'alackin' that's what!

[@johnnyT428]

Very interesting. I like the use of the brailling line for bearing of. 10knts+

[@dominictarrsailing]

Yeah that's how i'd put it. I feel 10 knots is reasonable but easy to get excited and say more but better to be conservative

[@markthomasson5077]

She sure flys along. I had a similar proa, though with V hulls. Problem with that was the centre of pressure was close to the bow, so the sail, a windsurfer rig, had to be right on the bow, and I never managed to steer it with wind pressure. I think the flat bottom is the way to go, especially with the centre board as this brings the centre of pressure more centrally. As with yours, it was a pain to lash it all together, and set up the rig. If / when I do another, I would probably go with a Newick Centreboard/ rudder. Ok, more complex to make, but you can then do a simple rig. The set up time much quicker.

[@dominictarrsailing]

I'd definitely recommend an adjustable windward stay. That makes a big difference to steering. shifting weight is not just about moving CoE but also center of mass. The boat will rotate around the center of mass. This became clear to me since I had built such a light boat, and with a leeboard the CoE was adjustable independently of the CoM. I'm 60 something kg and the boat is all up is also 60kg. So combined center of mass is halfway between where I sit and the center of the boat! My rig is right on the bow and from watching the marshallese do it, I have the yard quite close to vertical (this is adjustable via the WW stay) more so than other western proa builders which usually favor a low tack shunt (tack slides along the lee rail)

[@markthomasson5077]

@@dominictarrsailing mine was set up with a windsurfer mast at the centre of the hull, with two fixed stays, it was semi freestanding. The windsurfer rig hung from the top, with the tack pulled to the bow. You could steer by moving weight upwind, but very difficult to get off wind. From your experience I can see why!

[@dominictarrsailing]

​@@markthomasson5077 my other proa is Vish (a narrow deep dory) and it was also difficult to get to turn down. so I used steering oar for that. but on waimea it goes downwind very nicely! the hull shape with movable boards may help, but the most important thing is being able to tilt the mast to windward. I have that on a 4:1 fiddle block (changed since I made this video) and am developing ways to manage the end stays as I change mast tilt

[@michaelknuckey4405]

10 knts !

[@dominictarrsailing]

only 10?

[@michaelknuckey4405]

@@dominictarrsailing Ok , 15 !

[@seangarachbar9995]

Inspired to try to adapt this to a micronesian design

[@dominictarrsailing]

you mean on an asymmetric V hull? my sailing rig is already pretty micronesian

[@seangarachbar9995]

​@@dominictarrsailing yes, but a carolinian (Yap) style where the amas are closer together rather than being far apart, and having a triangular "deck". The hull would also be a little slimmer and deeper than this. It would be a hybrid of this proa and "good enough" and about waist high. Awesome proa and build videos!

[@dominictarrsailing]

@@seangarachbar9995 sounds interesting! though I like a far ama because it's cheaper (in weight) to get more righting moment by making the akas longer than by making a larger ama. A real traditional ama is a shaped log, and even the lightest log is a lot heavier than a hollow plywood ama

[@dominictarrsailing]

oh, did you mean akas? akas are the crossbeams, ama is the float.

[@seangarachbar9995]

​@@dominictarrsailing yes! My bad for the mix up. Im hoping that haning it them closer together would let it have its own suspention

[@JacobHowell-t4y]

Hi Dominic! Im trying to watch you build video for rough plans, but having a hard time guessing where you laid the panels over 3 sheets. Would you be able to do a rough sketch to show me? Really appreciate it and love the boat!

[@dominictarrsailing]

yes! I'm thrilled you want to build my design! I actually drew fairly detailed plans, including of this. just on paper though. It's too dark to take a good photo here now but I'll photograph them tomorrow!

[@dominictarrsailing]

here is what I have: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1iqIodg9159W_cSaRjghruW7QZCiFhkjt?usp=share_link hope you can read my handwriting. if you have any questions just post a comment! note I added offsets for the curve of the rocker. that's measured off the prototype. Also I messed up a little and could have made the deck longer. I'd recommend doing that, because then if you capsize it will have less water in so will be safer. also, I originally put the bulkheads too near the ends, then added more bulkheads a bit further back. You'll still get it out of 3 sheets with the larger decks and bulkheads back as far as possible. Also, I the build would have been a bit quicker and easier if I had built a strongback first. even if it was only 2.4m long

[@alexforget]

Very cool, what do you think of a large size proa for cruising instead of a catamaran? I would use two fixed masts a bit like the Harry Proa. I did some cruising with a 30’ catamaran (Iroquois) but I didn’t like the very quick hobby horse motion at sea. Otherwise it was very good, 18" draft and swinging rudders was just perfect in the Bahamas.

[@dominictarrsailing]

that's something I think about a lot. I have a wharram pahi 31, to be honest hobby horsing isn't a problem, sure some times it bounces over waves but it doesn't resonate. I think the pahi has less rocker and that makes it less of a problem than on other wharrams, which are reputed to have hobby horsing problems (I can't comment, because I've only sailed on this one) The problem though is tacking. My pahi could tack more reliably. in any case, you are in less control in a tack than a shunt, relying on the boat to turn via momentum or backwinded sails. I'm pretty happy with my proa shunting. I feel well designed proa shunt can be better than a tack. I sailed on a mbuli once www.fyneboatkits.co.uk/plans/sailing/mbuli-proa/ it has amazingly controlled shunts! So, I'm definitely interested in a larger cruising proa, but I think it's best to learn as much as I can from a small proa before rushing to a bigger one!

[@user-ym5dm9xd5w]

Hey Dominic. It would he cool if you could say where you are in the videos. I have seen some places I think I know but not 100% sure.

[@dominictarrsailing]

it's all round! the footage in this video is mostly at port fitroy on great barrier, and the first sailing video is partly around nelson, then the second half is in Auckland. Then the strong wind advisory is in Auckland and the speed run is deeper into the waitemata harbour, in beach haven. I'll include where in the next video!

[@nautikarl]

This is impressive steering without oar or rudder! Seems like your leeboard is connected on a simple rope and stopper knot like the dutch barge? Whatever speed you've hit was exciting to watch while steering and depowering with the brail lines at the same time!!! 12kts?

[@dominictarrsailing]

Thanks! the leeboard is tied on with a loop and then windlass to pull it tight. meaning to switch to a bolt but havn't gotten around to that. Then a double purchase each side, through two holes in the leeboard, to a cleat at each end of the seat. There are two ways to turn down using the sail, sheet in, or partially brail. But if you sheet in too hard you'll just make loads of leeway, and heel too much. I think brailing is better in a big gust!

[@bryrensexton4618]

👍!!!

[@robertlaird6746]

I'd like to build a cedar strip version of your boat. Do you have a build video of it or something that goes into detail?

[@dominictarrsailing]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5Wocpuio6iFodE is the build. (See link to plans in description!) Its just flat bottomed! Not quite square but almost. If you really want to do strip plank we could figure out something similar proportions and make it U shaped. It should be faster from less wetted surface, but im not sure how much faster.

[@robertlaird6746]

@@dominictarrsailing What would be the shortest length I could go with? I think it might be possible to make it a two peace main hull. I've seen others do it before but don't know how they connected them together because I didn't look at the design really closely.

[@robertlaird6746]

@@dominictarrsailing I'm interested in getting a Odisea 48 catamaran and having something small to sail around when I'm on anchor.

[@dominictarrsailing]

@@robertlaird6746 well this is 4.2 meters long and fits across the decks of a 31 for cat. A 48 foot cat will have a lot more space! But really depends on how its configured and what would get in the way etc. A 48 foot cat probably has davits at the back! That might make storage really easy, just take the rig down.

[@dominictarrsailing]

In my opinion, a take apart hull isnt worth it. I built a nesting dinghy once, it was great but the joining mechanism gave most of the trouble. Also it meant it wasnt ready to go in an emergency. Difficult to set up etc. My ama fits inside the waka, but that wouldnt work if it was two pieces.

[@ThomasMacdonald-y1u]

8 knots.

[@mattamorra5175]

15 knots

[@dominictarrsailing]

haha I'll take it!

[@hardystein114]

I have no experience with proas Dominic , but have sailed fast beach cats for three decades , so let me just say that your boat looks very fast ! 15 knots would not be unrealistic at all.