Sailing, YOUR KEEL WILL FALL OFF , bolt on keel failure

Sailing, YOUR KEEL WILL FALL OFF
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[@mikew3194]

I've been thinking about all the listings saying "she's in the water on a mooring ready to go!".... This just means I need a dinghy ride to it for initial inspection, and then have to bring it to a marina for a haul out and survey. Being on the hard has it's drawbacks too, but don't act like I'm dumb enough to just hand over a house payment and sail into the sunset...

[@SailingTeamTallyHo]

Well done chris. Everybody..listen to this guy! I have sailed on every ocean except the arctic with a bolt on keel. However i have seen many vessels where they have been grounded or i can shake rhe keel with my hands when it is lifted up on slings that i wont take farther than the marina entrance. On the other hand you can have just as big problems with a full keel too. Keep up the videos!

[@Paul-im5xo]

I file the bolt on keel vs encapsulated thing in the "nice to have if you can afford it but should not prevent you from buying a boat" category. I put the balsa vs foam core in that category too.

[@reticenti6365]

All that you described about the circumstances is what I would call normal wear and tear for an older vessel. Sounds like you need to pay alot of attention to the keel, instead of almost no attention. I think as a low budget solo sailor I would not want that in my life.

[@ChasingLatitudes]

Yes sir, And that is kind of my point, its not really a OMG bolt on keels are terrible, its me trying to point out that they are very important and require the proper maintenance

[@ChasingLatitudes]

@@forussed you still crying after I destroyed you lame last comment ?

[@dmitripogosian5084]

Fall off from normal wear and tear is almost by definition the meaning of 'just falls off'

[@GeneralBingBong]

@@dmitripogosian5084running aground is not “normal wear and tear”. Normal wear and tear is stress from rough seas, weathering, and rusting of the keel/components. Running aground is an incident, it is not what the boat is designed for. While some boats are designed to stay together if it runs aground, that doesn’t mean you should. This boat was misused, not services properly, and was never inspected before hand. Had the boat been properly maintained and never run aground, this keel would have lasted a long time.

[@McGyverPilot]

All Sailors and those engaged in endeavors involving considerable risk, consider taking a 'Human Factors" course, some available online, at various colleges and training centers. Its this course that could have saved all involved here. This was a case of "all the holes in the Reasons Swiss Cheese Model lining up," and avoidable. #HFACS

[@patrickflanagan317]

Here in NZ 30-40 years ago we had light displacement yacht with deep keels with bulbs or jandel shapes of lead bolted underneath. Many yachts lost there bulbs and some there keels through lack of engineering and possibly maintenance and groundings. Fortunately those gun ho designer's had been held to account and now are more responsible.

[@Shepherdservices317]

Why not fiberglass a bolted keel to the hull for added security?

[@chrischamberlaine4160]

People underestimate the inertial forces and leverage generated in even a low velocity grounding. This often places stress unevenly on the bolts and the adjacent hull structure and floors. This can stress the forward structure in tension and push the aft attachment upwards. The failure of one forward bolt can lead to movement and the progressive failure of the bolt system and laminate. Modern high aspect ratio keels with bulbs are subject to some complex and conflicting forces in a seaway as they provide lift and stability laterally while at the same time coping with 'pendulum' forces from waves etc . All this with a quite small attachment area to the hull. Unfortunately the pressure is on manufacturers and designers to push the limits while keeping costs within profit requirements. Although I question the authors qualifications and do not like the histrionic delivery his message is good and clear. When you buy a yacht, especially a modern fin keel boat with a bulb, make sure you have a good survey and don't be scared to get credible answers or walk away. CF professional designer/yachtsman of 70 years standing..

[@ChasingLatitudes]

100% people have no idea the forces involved here

[@svStargate]

I work on boats, and I’ve seen lots of damages on keel joints, but way more on boats with iron keels…. Those have been the ones with larger structural damages…. definitely some boats are better built than others…… but don’t get me wrong, I’ll still love to own some of those European sailboats…. It’s just like avoid grounding at any cost.. specially on rocks!

[@ChasingLatitudes]

100%

[@rickylefleur2158]

Get a old Dehler 31, they ain't scared of rocks too...

[@danhofmann9713]

It's there any way to strengthen your keel? I reckon a lot of people would interested if there was a method

[@danhofmann9713]

Another example of the grid to hull connection failure. Maybe that's what is really giving bolt on keels a bad name.

[@pezpengy9308]

i have a water ballast and a daggerboard. no worries here. also wouldnt go out too far.

[@Ieffmacloud]

Just looking at a good 30 starter boat. Yeah, noticed that bolt on is a bit sketchy. One would have to inspect and maintain it often if they needed the extra speed.

[@ChasingLatitudes]

@@Ieffmacloud id disagree 100%

[@Ieffmacloud]

@ChasingLatitudes ? I'm actually in a learning phase concerning sailing. A lot I don't know concerning the keel, types and uses. I am leaning toward a full keel starting out but I'm just interested in it's sturdy elements as I expect to run arounda few times, 😆.... The other types are definitely faster some are faster in different settings. If this is wrong feel free to explain.

[@ChasingLatitudes]

@@Ieffmacloud in your case maybe a full keel to start as you feel you will be grounding the boat

[@Ieffmacloud]

@ChasingLatitudes 🤔.... "There are those that have run aground and those that will." Logic suggests a long keel will be more sturdy but sacrifice speed and maneuver ability.... Thanks for the "advice". 😆

[@tanyalove6983]

Well fiberglass in only so strong it can delaminate and stress cracks can form. There is a cover over those bolts that attach the keel on you have to check the stringers for cracks and fiberglass in that area for cracks. The crew of the Cheeki Rafiki did say that they were going against the waves at an angle when a large wave hit and they heard a noise and afterward water started to come in. They are supposed to have a gallon of the fiberglass with chopped strands mixed In. They should have taken off the cover and checked the keel bolt area for cracks or leaks. Then use the whole gallon, luff your sails point it into the wind or go with the wind to minimize force on the keel. And wait for the fiberglass chopped strands to harden. Instead they kept going with keel wiggling more and more with more water coming in. If more and more water is coming in at that point they maybe should have inflated the life raft and 3 from the 4 of the crew get inside. So they did not even take off the keel cover to find out where the water was coming in. You can see the result. I wonder too if they had their harnesses on they would have stayed with the boat and then could have used the life raft.

[@thomastaylor6991]

Sound advice is difficult to argue with. I will probably repeat this.

[@TheOldGuy]

Nice Video! Thanks for the insight! One thing you have touched on in other videos, but I think could use its own video is the mysteries of sailboat insurance! If I pay cash for a $50K boat, is it worth it to get anything other than liability insurance? I have a problem with most insurance as most of the times the T&C's require lawyers to interpret, and even then can be ambiguous. Just not sure it is worth the effort / cost?

[@peterjpinheiro]

Could you explain what happened to the Oyster keel that fell off.

[@ChasingLatitudes]

Sure, witch one

[@peterjpinheiro]

@@ChasingLatitudes the Oyster 825 off Spain. Very hard to find any information on it.

[@ChasingLatitudes]

@@peterjpinheiro oh that one, the Polina star 3 , thats a manufacturer error, they won't really admit it but it's was their build on that one

[@wyorunner7235]

WATCH OUT FOR THAT TREEEEEE

[@SydneyGrimes-uw3mh]

Some yachts have bad designs and have keel problems. I know the makes and don't climb on them even if they are moored. So watch what you buy.

[@jesuschrist-alphaomega]

How often does this really happen? The lack of maintenance from these people really keel me.

[@86config]

90 recorded instances in the past 40 years, with an accompanying loss of 28 lives. That does not include boats that simply vanished, as they.. erm.. vanished with no resultant investigation.

[@jesuschrist-alphaomega]

@86config 2 a year? That's pretty good odds of you figure in the thousands of boats on the water

[@86config]

@@jesuschrist-alphaomega Nothing exists in a vacuum, consider, for every one of those boats lost, how many have had substantial groundings, that then have to have the boat lifted out, inspected, remediation works done at the cost of the owners time, financials and utility. The risk of loss of the boat are reasonably low, the time/financial/utility costs inherent in the proper utilisation and maintenance of the design are not. Which unfortunately brings us back to your original post in the thread.

[@jesuschrist-alphaomega]

@86config let's expand your vacuum and ask for how many times water ways a successfully navigated. Boats don't ground on a rock or bottom, how many miles of ocean crossings happen every day without issues. How many days or years at sea with out having to go on the hard for major repairs. 🤔 two can play this game and I am betting I have the winning numbers. 😎

[@86config]

@@jesuschrist-alphaomega Jeeze,. I didn't realise you thought it a game or we were in any way playing. Everyone will ground eventually, there is even a saying amongst sailors regarding this. I presented data and pointed out the potential consequences of taking a hard grounding with a bolt on keel. None of it is really in dispute. It's moronic to think there is a win or lose position against statements of fact.

[@stonetoolcompany3649]

The performance obsession has led to absurd extremes on sailboats. Bolt on keels have existed for many years and been reliable as a rule. Bolt on a deep high aspect ratio keel and stresses in any kind of strike are huge. A number of builders make boats with low aspect bolt on bilge keels that are intended to “take the ground”. Not a problem because the low aspect ratio imparts only a tiny fraction of the force of a single deep keel.

[@Will-cl1ve]

It’s like saying the wheel fell off the car because it’s a low profile alloy wheel. 🙈 remember why I got out of boat building now

[@airborneranger-ret]

Are keels falling off something that can be fixed with duct tape? Works for most everything. ;)

[@rickylefleur2158]

5200 the duct tape of the marine world :D

[@aphilippinesadventure9184]

Well, at least I know the bolts on my encapsulated keep will NEVER fail....one less thing to think about....

[@SydneyGrimes-uw3mh]

Bolt on keels are risky they have t be designed properly by engineers and have to be maintained. I've seen the bolts rust off on keels already I've designed bolted keels with safety back up. It can't fail at all just need a good hull with decent ribs check your yachts guys the keel is the most important part of it when it comes to safety and stability. Don't buy lift or swing keel yachts ever. Check your anodes and replace if needed the negative battery wire must be connected to the keel and be careful of shore power connected to the yacht . Electrolysis is a killer

[@artfulalias3984]

If your bolt on keel has ever grounded, haul the boat, remove it, and have special inspection done that goes far beyond a normal survey. If you don't know the history of the vessel; do the same. If you are hauled, and there is a chance the yard placed vessel weight on the keel, that's a grounding; same removal and special inspection. Remember this is all normal maintenance and not a design issue at all. We definitely don't need ABYC/EU off shore standards requiring keel/hull strengths that take typical groundings into account, and require the combined keel/hull structure to support the vessel's own weight. Even though its easily achievable and hundreds, maybe thousands, of boats with other keel designs dry out on their keels every tide cycle, day after day.

[@ChasingLatitudes]

I agree

[@rickylefleur2158]

Always bad, when the keel fall off. On a positive not you always can wave from your capsized catamaran....

[@airborneranger-ret]

Catamaran's look so cool, even upside down :)

[@rsfreem]

the sky is falling

[@carywalker1564]

Any qualified engineer can explain why they fail.

[@DarkSevariant]

Your Intro is Too Funny...!!! bwahahahahahaha...Comment Section: '...I Just Found Out, My Birthday is Same day I Was Born..!!...' hahahahahahahaha...!!

[@stimproid]

Yes! It’s just like a Red Rider BB gun…… You’ll shoot your eye out!

[@skipperduckduck]

Fantastic insights!

[@kirkb3473]

Ha! I love your crazy content, keep the jokes coming! You know, you can really scale this to all genres of travel to grow your channel so someday you’ll be able to afford to go cruising. Airplane’s Suck! = guaranteed death! Then branch in to Water Sucks! - you will drowned!

[@lokijune]

Love the info

[@rsfreem]

tree vs car Bahahaha

[@jeroenvanrixel7980]

Hauling coke on your keel many times

[@DarkSevariant]

You're a Ruthless Realist, and a Enjoy Your Videos. ..Wait...$100 Dollars Through Pay-Pal...? 😮 How About $5 Dollars Through Pay-Pal?

[@ChasingLatitudes]

You're a legend

[@Gottenhimfella]

Your clip (judged from the title and opening sentence) comes across as either the worst imaginable clickbait, or an infantile parody of it. I don't know what your schtick is, and I'm not going to discover, because I couldn't listen past the first thirty seconds.

[@ChasingLatitudes]

I do not care

[@tanyalove6983]

Lol read what I wrote and you save your boat from sinking and save your life. If he did not write this article I would not have written such an illuminating comment.

[@noellwilson1273]

21 seconds: BS!